Hey all.

Here are just a few things that I noticed while watching the latest episode, and wondering whether or not they will have any over all meaning.

1. At the beginning of the epi, when Hurley's dad leaves on his bike, It's a Yamaha, yet the Y at the beginning, and A at the end are missing, leaving only AMAH
2. When Hurley gets into the car and his Dad asks him to start it, does he mouth please don't start? Or please start? (it may have been work, I don't remember)
If he said 'please don't start' why?
3. I'm assuming that workman is NOT Roger's last time, do they have to put their positions on their uniforms because everyone had to wear the same thing? The way Des and the other Hatch members had to wear contamination suits?
4. In Hurley's room back at his mansion, everything was patched together. His blanket was patchwork animal print, his lamp, and I believe the rug aswell.
Why?

Just a few things I noticed! Along with Danielle's endless supply of ammo!

UpdatesThe mystery of the missing Y and A.
AMAH is the story is the story of a wife of a sailor-type man, who sails off to sea. She waits for him so long that she eventually turns to stone.
Reinforcement of this symbol: (a) Just after we see the AMAH on Cheech's motorcycle, we see Hurley's mother in the window, watching him as he is about to leave. (b) Remember, the four-toed statue on the Island. Standing on the precipice of the ocean, staring out to sea--so we imagine cause it's only some toes. The Amah Rock manifested. ( LostSasquatch (http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/member.php?u=53691)) )

That's to avoid copyright infringement I'd assume.

Work Man is his job position (note the capital M and space inbetween the words)

I'm nto sure about the patches, but the ceiling mould above his bed was in a horseshoe shape. Doubt they would've done ll that work just to get an easteregg across, but you never know (they did a dharma sign as the ceiling in one of Micheal's flashbacks)

Copyright infringement?
That makes sense.
I'm trying to think if we've seen any other copyrighted materials...coke bottles, etc.

I think i'm trying to read more into things in this episode..
Even though now that I think about it, I don't think it was one of those "look closely at the details" type episodes.

If a show doesn't have agreements with certain companies, they have to 'get around' the product in order to avoid paying for the rights to have it in their show.
It's in a lot of shows and stuff. :)

I suppose it strikes me as odd that anyone wouldn't want their product on Lost!

the copyright thing is weird...that clearly was a camaro..70-71-72???.we all know that...

Do you have to have permission for verbal copyrights?
I mean to mention google, little house etc?
I remember in Business learning that after a certain period of time, certain words which were once copyrighted, no longer are.
"Tissue" for instance, used to be a brand (and still is), but now you say "Can I have a tissue?" when referring to any brand; and is thus no longer copyrighted.
Camero, however, is not such a word.
Nor are the majority of Sawyer's nicknames.
So why with Yamaha?

i dont think it has anything to do with copyright. If they could not get a deal with yamaha they could have just used a different bike or took of the name plate that said yamaha. Seems to me like it could have been intentional but for what reason im not surer.

Back to what I said: Why would Yamaha not want it on such a widely watched show?

Do you have to have permission for verbal copyrights?
I mean to mention google, little house etc?
I remember in Business learning that after a certain period of time, certain words which were once copyrighted, no longer are.
"Tissue" for instance, used to be a brand (and still is), but now you say "Can I have a tissue?" when referring to any brand; and is thus no longer copyrighted.
Camero, however, is not such a word.
Nor are the majority of Sawyer's nicknames.
So why with Yamaha?

ABC Television would have to pay the company to use the products or get expressed permission they could use it. It's how company's ensure their products aren't placed in television and movies they don't approve of. When ET was being made, the producers wanted M&Ms, but Mars wouldn't allow the candy in the movie. So, they went to Reese's, who decided to come up with Reese's Pieces, which were introduced in ET and an instant hit. Mars always regretted that decision.

amah is some eastern term for a nanny which has kinda become derogatory

amah rock is a rock on the edge of a cliff that is acording to myth is a faithful wife waiting for her sailor husband turned to stone (((this one is more relevant

I suppose it strikes me as odd that anyone wouldn't want their product on Lost!

I think it's more likely that Lost's sponsor, like Jeep, didn't want Yamaha in.
100%
also, to clarify, we're definitely NOT talking about copyright, you all mean trademark. Copyright is for longer bodies of work like books or songs.

For what it's worth:

An amah is a woman employed by a family to clean, look after children, etc. This word is particularly common in East Asia and India (ayah, though, is a more common variant in India). The more "politically correct" term for maid, instead of "amah", in recent years (since about the mid-nineties), is "helper". In Taiwan and Northern China, this word, although considered slang in recent days, may even refer to any old lady in general.
Amah is also the Mosou term for mother, and is used in this way in the book Leaving Mother Lake.

The point of now showing brand names on a tv show is to not provide free advertising.

I suppose if the product's image were somehow damaged by the show, the maker might have copyright, or other, concerns, but I'm sure this hardly ever happens.

Hmm...So why even show the label? Why the AMAH?
We know what a motorcycle is without the label...

The point of now showing brand names on a tv show is to not provide free advertising.

I suppose if the product's image were somehow damaged by the show, the maker might have copyright, or other, concerns, but I'm sure this hardly ever happens.
actually on heros a brand of garbage disposal made them take it out after the initial airing or something like that

They did a similar thing with the wheelbarrow Skate was using to haul rocks with on Hydra Island, scraping off a couple of the brand name letters.

Back to what I said: Why would Yamaha not want it on such a widely watched show?

If Hurley had been tooling around happily on the motorcycle, rather than the bike being the means of a deadbeat dad bailing on his wife and kid, then the name may well have been shown.

ABC Television would have to pay the company to use the products or get expressed permission they could use it. It's how company's ensure their products aren't placed in television and movies they don't approve of. When ET was being made, the producers wanted M&Ms, but Mars wouldn't allow the candy in the movie. So, they went to Reese's, who decided to come up with Reese's Pieces, which were introduced in ET and an instant hit. Mars always regretted that decision.

I love that story, and that movie. :)

It is actually pretty rare for a TV show or movie to pay to use a product. It is usually the other way around. When you see a trademarked product, usually the company has paid a product placement fee or provided the production with free product in exchange for the product being featured in the show or movie.

However, if no fees or anything are paid, the company can still refuse to allow their trademarked name to be associated with the production. This is usually when the placement for the product is in an unflattering position.

Other productions (like Lost, usually) just make up their own products or have known lables altered so they don't say the real names.

I think the Amah thing was intentional. Otherwise, they'd have either left it complete, or completely removed it. Doesn't make any sense to just remove letter from the front and back and leave the ones in the middle.

Some of you guys have it backwards. TV and movie producers don't have to pay to include products in their work - though increasingly it goes the other way around. Product manufacturers agree to pay (or enter in advertising agreements, provide free products like cars, or provide other kinds of compensation) in exchange for having their products featured in films or TV shows. M&M Mars didn't want to pay to be in ET, so they next approached Hershey about Reese's Pieces, and they did enter into an agreement. There's a good article on this here:
http://www.snopes.com/business/market/mandms.asp

Product makers can't control how their goods are used in TV and movies, and sometimes they don't like it. I suppose if a show really disparaged a product there might be a basis for some kind of slander lawsuit (i'm not a lawyer). Apparently SC Johnson did not like they way Raid insecticide was used in the Sopranos, but there's nothing they can do. And the show Seinfeld totally coopted the J Peterman catalog, portraying the President as a bumbling oaf, and the catalog people said in an interview that they had never been approached about that usage and that it had done nothing for their sales.

Lost doesn't seem to do any product placement, but I don't know why they choose to obliterate the names of identifiable products when they are used as props in the show. VW was an exception, but of course they don't market the microbus in this country anymore. I expected that bus to start right up the way that one did in Woody Allen's Sleeper - that would have been funny.

Back to what I said: Why would Yamaha not want it on such a widely watched show?Some companies are very reluctant to have their product appear in a show if they don't know the exact context that the product will appear in. A great example of this is when the Apollo bars appeared on the show...the producers actually wanted to include a traditional candy bar company, but none of them were willing to attach their name in that case. So the producers had to make up the Apollo brand just for the show.

Not saying that's what happened in this case, but it's a possibility. Perhaps ABC already had the motorcycle as a prop, but agreed with Yamaha to digitally edit out some of the letters (since it's rather unclear at this point as to whether Hurley's dad is a character you'd want to attach to your product).

http://www.chooseyouritem.com/classics/photos/82000/82178-2.1972.Chevrolet.Camaro.Z28.2-Door.Coupe.jpg

Looks like this Z28 to me

Some companies are very reluctant to have their product appear in a show if they don't know the exact context that the product will appear in. A great example of this is when the Apollo bars appeared on the show...the producers actually wanted to include a traditional candy bar company, but none of them were willing to attach their name in that case. So the producers had to make up the Apollo brand just for the show.

Not saying that's what happened in this case, but it's a possibility. Perhaps ABC already had the motorcycle as a prop, but agreed with Yamaha to digitally edit out some of the letters (since it's rather unclear at this point as to whether Hurley's dad is a character you'd want to attach to your product).

I can agree with that.
I just remembering seeing it and going AMAH? What's that?
Then realizing it was Yamaha, and wondering why.

Eh... David Reyes (Hugo's dad's name) rides off on a AMAH motorcycle...

DR... AMAH

DHARMA anyone?

If it was intentional, what the heck does AMAH mean?

Someone before said it was the name of an eastern type Nanny?
Correct me if i'm wrong.

Someone before said it was the name of an eastern type Nanny?
Correct me if i'm wrong.

Or they could just read the thread ;-)
From the first page:

An amah is a woman employed by a family to clean, look after children, etc. This word is particularly common in East Asia and India (ayah, though, is a more common variant in India). The more "politically correct" term for maid, instead of "amah", in recent years (since about the mid-nineties), is "helper". In Taiwan and Northern China, this word, although considered slang in recent days, may even refer to any old lady in general.
Amah is also the Mosou term for mother, and is used in this way in the book Leaving Mother Lake.



I don't think it was anything that we need to scratch our heads about. This kind of thing happens all the time, especially in TV. It can be difficult to get the ok to use certain products in the media. And as someone said earlier in the thread, most companies won't allow their products to be used without knowing the context--and we all know how secretive this show in particular has to be. If the prop has already been accquired without approval, an easy, time efficient fix is to block out some letters. The studio doesn't always have time to scout out another prop and get appoval for that one...

Fair enough, moonkiss (http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/member.php?u=4980), however why would they remove just the Y and the A?
We don't need to know the brand to know that it's a Yamaha, so why not simply remove all of the lettering?

It isn't as if this was something we screenshoted, and had to magnify, it was quite prominent and I believe shown more than once.

Why not simply remove ALL of the letters?

Wild guess here but: The Y and A may have been removed to show it as an older used bike implying a poor family that could not afford a new one?

"Tissue" for instance, used to be a brand (and still is), but now you say "Can I have a tissue?" when referring to any brand; and is thus no longer copyrighted.Close but not quite - You are thinking of Kleenex a brand name for that company's tissue that many people started to use as a generic term for tissue.

It isn't as if this was something we screenshoted, and had to magnify, it was quite prominent and I believe shown more than once.



I know, and I noticed it too, but look at other TV shows you'll notice this kind of thing too. ;) I'm just sayin'...

I know, and I noticed it too, but look at other TV shows you'll notice this kind of thing too. ;) I'm just sayin'...

I know. But it's Lost...I think they put much more emphasis on the little details, because they know that we're looking for them.

I know. But it's Lost...I think they put much more emphasis on the little details, because they know that we're looking for them.

Yup, Clochard. Always look to symbolism first, they know the audience is looking for it.

The Amah Rock is "the stone that is gazing out for her husband." We see AMAH on the motorcycle just before we see Hugo's mom gazing out the window.
http://www.wcities.com/en/record/,42659/86/record.html

--LostSasquatch
didn't mean to be rude before, Clochard

Yup, Clochard. Always look to symbolism first, they know the audience is looking for it.

The Amah Rock is "the stone that is gazing out for her husband." We see AMAH on the motorcycle just before we see Hugo's mom gazing out the window.
http://www.wcities.com/en/record/,42659/86/record.html

--LostSasquatch
didn't mean to be rude before, Clochard


Very good, that's exactly the type of meaning I was looking for.

And I didn't mean to be rude either. :kiss:

It's kinda common to see old vehicles with missing letters like this. I mean how many older Toyota trucks have you seen on the road that are missing one or two letters on the back? Lots. It could just be that the most accessible motorcycle they could get was missing letters. But who knows.

It's kinda common to see old vehicles with missing letters like this. I mean how many older Toyota trucks have you seen on the road that are missing one or two letters on the back? Lots. It could just be that the most accessible motorcycle they could get was missing letters. But who knows.

Very doubtful, due to the light shed on what AMAH means, as well as the obvious symbolism in the very next frame, with Hugo's Mom.

Very good, that's exactly the type of meaning I was looking for.

And I didn't mean to be rude either. :kiss:

All good.

Hey, wait. Hmmm...the myth of the Amah Rock is that the wife is staring out to sea waiting for her sailor-husband to come back. But he never comes back. So she turns to stone. This is represented in the Losties, lost at sea, waiting for their humanity to return; Penny waiting for Desmond-the-sailor to return; Him, everybody waiting for Him to return; Danielle and the transmission, eternally standing on the cliff sending out its call with no hope of safe return.

What happens when the sailor does return--Cheech! Hugo's world goes even deeper into the crapper. Hugo goes to Australia, then 815, then the Island, and now his mother is gazing out the window for Hugo to return.

I wondered when I watched this episode the second time, Hugo's mom--is she looking out the window at Cheech leaving, or is she looking forlornly at Hugo, foreshadowing the fulfillment of the myth of the Amah Rock.

symbolism

--LostSasquatch

I remember in Business learning that after a certain period of time, certain words which were once copyrighted, no longer are.
"Tissue" for instance, used to be a brand (and still is), but now you say "Can I have a tissue?" when referring to any brand; and is thus no longer copyrighted.
You're reasoning is correct but your wording is off. The brand name is "Kleenex" not "tissue." Thus, you can now say, "Can I have a Kleenex" and not have to worry about infringement issues because the brand name Kleenex has become synonymous with tissue. :coolorng:

You're reasoning is correct but your wording is off. The brand name is "Kleenex" not "tissue." Thus, you can now say, "Can I have a Kleenex" and not have to worry about infringement issues because the brand name Kleenex has become synonymous with tissue. :coolorng:

You're completely correct.
Can you tell it's been a while since I've taken business?
That was my first year of university, and I stupidly gave that textbook away.
At least my meaning was understood.
100%
All good.

Hey, wait. Hmmm...the myth of the Amah Rock is that the wife is staring out to sea waiting for her sailor-husband to come back. But he never comes back. So she turns to stone. This is represented in the Losties, lost at sea, waiting for their humanity to return; Penny waiting for Desmond-the-sailor to return; Him, everybody waiting for Him to return; Danielle and the transmission, eternally standing on the cliff sending out its call with no hope of safe return.

What happens when the sailor does return--Cheech! Hugo's world goes even deeper into the crapper. Hugo goes to Australia, then 815, then the Island, and now his mother is gazing out the window for Hugo to return.

I wondered when I watched this episode the second time, Hugo's mom--is she looking out the window at Cheech leaving, or is she looking forlornly at Hugo, foreshadowing the fulfillment of the myth of the Amah Rock.

symbolism

--LostSasquatch

Oh very good! I like that quite a bit!
I find it somewhat odd that only Hurley and Desmond have someone waiting for them back home.
All of our other main characters, Jin and Sun (With the exception of her father, he doesn't count), Charlie, Claire, Mr. Eko (Although dead)...
Wasn't that one of the unifying threads among the Losties? That they were alone?

Yup, nobody waiting for them, all alone, humanity is Lost.

The Amah Rock story is about hope--the wife gazing for her husband to return for so long that she turns to stone to gaze eternally. That is eternal hope. Cheech says it's always good to keep a little hope when lil Hugo tries to start the Camaro, which is what Hugo says when he tries to start the Vdub.

Remember, Sawyer says to Kate as they meander back to camp, there is no hope on this Island.

Remember, the four-toed statue on the Island. Standing on the precipice of the ocean, staring out to sea--so we imagine cause it's only some toes. The Amah Rock manifested.

Remember, the Others eternally waiting for Roger to return with the beer. He never returns.

Hugo and Desmond always maintain hope--Desmond with his photo, Hugo with his Vdub. Juliet&Jack's hope to get off the Island is desperation. Locke is everything happens for a reason. Claire is consumed by her responsibility for her baby. Charlie is gonna die. Sun and Jin are...vague. Sawyer--no hope on this Island. Kate is torn, fragmented. As the episode started with the Amah Rock reference and Cheech's bit about hope, the episode ends with Kate filling Danielle Rousseau with hope that her daughter is alive. The episode is framed in hope, reinforced by the Amah Rock parallel.

I remember in Business learning that after a certain period of time, certain words which were once copyrighted, no longer are.
"Tissue" for instance, used to be a brand (and still is), but now you say "Can I have a tissue?" when referring to any brand; and is thus no longer copyrighted.


I studied trademarks and copyrights in law school a few years ago and wanted to offer a few minor, friendly corrections in addition to the Kleenex one already mentioned. The issue here is a trademark issue. Trademarks are for brands, like products. Copyrights are generally for creative works such as songs, books, etc. A copyright is lost after a certain amount of time. Currently, I think the rule is the life of the author plus 70 years. Trademarks are not lost due to time, but they can be lost due to dilution, which happens when the trademark becomes used in a generic way, like Kleenex has become. Another example is Xerox. People often use the trademark as a verb, as in "I'll xerox that paper." In fact, I remember Xerox running ads reminding people that when they copy something, they are not xeroxing it. The people at Xerox were trying to protect their trademark from becoming diluted.

I studied trademarks and copyrights in law school a few years ago and wanted to offer a few minor, friendly corrections in addition to the Kleenex one already mentioned. The issue here is a trademark issue. Trademarks are for brands, like products. Copyrights are generally for creative works such as songs, books, etc. A copyright is lost after a certain amount of time. Currently, I think the rule is the life of the author plus 70 years. Trademarks are not lost due to time, but they can be lost due to dilution, which happens when the trademark becomes used in a generic way, like Kleenex has become. Another example is Xerox. People often use the trademark as a verb, as in "I'll xerox that paper." In fact, I remember Xerox running ads reminding people that when they copy something, they are not xeroxing it. The people at Xerox were trying to protect their trademark from becoming diluted.

Also, if I may add, my understanding is that a trademark holder is legally obligated to take action to protect a trademark or risk losing the trademark.

I'm not a lawyer, nor have I schooled in it, so perhaps FrecklyGirl can confirm/correct me on this. It does help me understand why so many seemingly trivial legal actions are taken in defense of trademarked product.

Eh... David Reyes (Hugo's dad's name) rides off on a AMAH motorcycle...

DR... AMAH

DHARMA anyone?




:eek: Wow!!

I studied trademarks and copyrights in law school a few years ago and wanted to offer a few minor, friendly corrections in addition to the Kleenex one already mentioned. The issue here is a trademark issue. Trademarks are for brands, like products. Copyrights are generally for creative works such as songs, books, etc. A copyright is lost after a certain amount of time. Currently, I think the rule is the life of the author plus 70 years. Trademarks are not lost due to time, but they can be lost due to dilution, which happens when the trademark becomes used in a generic way, like Kleenex has become. Another example is Xerox. People often use the trademark as a verb, as in "I'll xerox that paper." In fact, I remember Xerox running ads reminding people that when they copy something, they are not xeroxing it. The people at Xerox were trying to protect their trademark from becoming diluted.

Someone already pointed that out, thanks. :rolleyes:

Possibly to show his status in life... If he had taken off on a brand new Harley we might have thought he had financial means.? Just a guess.

Fair enough, moonkiss (http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/member.php?u=4980), however why would they remove just the Y and the A?
We don't need to know the brand to know that it's a Yamaha, so why not simply remove all of the lettering?

It isn't as if this was something we screenshoted, and had to magnify, it was quite prominent and I believe shown more than once.

Why not simply remove ALL of the letters?


...because it's mankind's nature to do the least amount of work possible, if they can possibly get wawy with it?

Why scrape off a whole row of letters if taking away just one or two will keep the shot legal? Plus, keeping some of the letters makes it look more "normal" -- like a real product.

Reality TV fans know that if Verne Troyer is wearing a Von Dutch T-shirt, the PAs will use gaffer tape to cover up the "o" and the "u" in the logo -- why don't they cover up the whole thing? Because it's easier to do the minimum (and probably more confortable for Mini Me, too) -- and because blocking all remnants of the logo with tape would just outright look odd ("Why is Verne wearing a shirt made of black tape?", or, in this case, "What kind of mototrcycle does Cheech ride? There's no logo -- it must be DHARMA!!!").

It certainly seems like it would be easier to just pop off/scratch off a few letters instead of the whole shebang.

...because it's mankind's nature to do the least amount of work possible, if they can possibly get wawy with it?

Why scrape off a whole row of letters if taking away just one or two will keep the shot legal? Plus, keeping some of the letters makes it look more "normal" -- like a real product.

Reality TV fans know that if Verne Troyer is wearing a Von Dutch T-shirt, the PAs will use gaffer tape to cover up the "o" and the "u" in the logo -- why don't they cover up the whole thing? Because it's easier to do the minimum (and probably more confortable for Mini Me, too) -- and because blocking all remnants of the logo with tape would just outright look odd ("Why is Verne wearing a shirt made of black tape?", or, in this case, "What kind of mototrcycle does Cheech ride? There's no logo -- it must be DHARMA!!!").

It certainly seems like it would be easier to just pop off/scratch off a few letters instead of the whole shebang.

Hmm. I would have originally agreed with you if we hadn't found significance in the remaining letters.