What in the bleep is going on?!? I do not know any of these characters...who are they, and for the second time, what is going on?

I'm lost


That was the single weirdest epi I have ever seen...period. It almost feels like I just watched a Pilot for a new show....

Are you being funny?

your kidding right? or are you a newbie??

if you arent kidding than you need to watch season 1 and 2

Is this a joke - only two people were new - unless of course you are making fun of the fact that so far you have only seen the Others -- this season ??

I think dtdionne is just a strange one :p

I wish I was but I'm not. Oh, I dont know...it's prolly just me. But it seems like everything is off. For example:

1. Kate and Sawyers interaction and their dialoge at the beginning, to me, was downright freaky.

2. The screentime for Hugo and Charlie compaired our other Losties is very weird.

3. The way that Locke and Saied are behaving is just weird.

I'm sorry, I'm having a really hard time putting my finger on it or even get remotley close for that matter.

I mean like, in the Lost world, a lot of time has passed since the trio was captured and it seems like nothing happend on the beach durring that time when I am sure that characters like Saied and Locke would have learned a great deal by now...and logically I would think that they would all sit around and talk for a long time after sawyer and kate returned.

Anyway, im really sorry for not being able to explain myself better...


David

The title of this thread is gross. I was thinking about the arm in Vincent's mouth when I read it.

It was awesome.

I wish I was but I'm not. Oh, I dont know...it's prolly just me. But it seems like everything is off. For example:

1. Kate and Sawyers interaction and their dialoge at the beginning, to me, was downright freaky.

2. The screentime for Hugo and Charlie compaired our other Losties is very weird.

3. The way that Locke and Saied are behaving is just weird.

I'm sorry, I'm having a really hard time putting my finger on it or even get remotley close for that matter.

I mean like, in the Lost world, a lot of time has passed since the trio was captured and it seems like nothing happend on the beach durring that time when I am sure that characters like Saied and Locke would have learned a great deal by now...and logically I would think that they would all sit around and talk for a long time after sawyer and kate returned.

Anyway, im really sorry for not being able to explain myself better...


David


Dude, it's been, like, 4 days since J,S,K and H were captured.

I mean like, in the Lost world, a lot of time has passed since the trio was captured

Unless im mistaken i thought it was only about 2 maybe 3 weeks at the most thats passed since they were taken according to the show's timeline.

I mean like, in the Lost world, a lot of time has passed since the trio was captured and it seems like nothing happend on the beach durring that time when I am sure that characters like Saied and Locke would have learned a great deal by now...and logically I would think that they would all sit around and talk for a long time after sawyer and kate returned.

David


David, In Lost time, very little time has passed. Its been less than three months since they crashed on the island. For them its Dec. 2004. For US its been a long time, but Kate & Sawyer have only been gone a few weeks or so.

2 or 3 weeks is a long time considering that it's close to half as long again as they have been there....and considering that they really have nothing to do but explore combined with the incredible amount of stuff they have learned in the short time they have been there, I was expecting for the group on the beach to have a lot of great info....but then again, its prolly just me cause i certainly am the minority here.

Tyler, really? How do you know that?

2 or 3 weeks is a long time considering that it's close to half as long again as they have been there....and considering that they really have nothing to do but explore combined with the incredible amount of stuff they have learned in the short time they have been there, I was expecting for the group on the beach to have a lot of great info....but then again, its prolly just me cause i certainly am the minority here.

Tyler, really? How do you know that?


I counted the number of grilled cheese Juliette brought Jack. ;) Seriously, I'd guess it's been no more than 2 weeks, more like 1 week. Locke and Sayid just got back from burying Eko two episodes ago and only 2 days have passed since then.

Kate, to me, hands down does not seem like herself at all...

About a week. But that's long enough. Especially since they knew that they'd been captured by the Others.

The most jarring to me was Hurley's reaction to James' news that Jack was still captive. Like--never mind, things are gonna get better now! That is NOT Hurley.

I'm with dtdionne. The characters were--off--somehow. Not that the actors weren't doing their best. But it just didn't jibe. Except for Jin and Vincent. THEY seemed themselves! ;)

About a week. But that's long enough. Especially since they knew that they'd been captured by the Others.

The most jarring to me was Hurley's reaction to James' news that Jack was still captive. Like--never mind, things are gonna get better now! That is NOT Hurley.

I'm with dtdionne. The characters were--off--somehow. Not that the actors weren't doing their best. But it just didn't jibe. Except for Jin and Vincent. THEY seemed themselves! ;)

I think this epi was supposed to be about Hurley finally finding HOPE. Which is new for him since he's felt "cursed" for so long... and a little hope was what Charlie need too.

Yes!! Everyone seemed so, I don't know, forced or disconnected or something. I thought maybe I was just having a hard time getting into this epi (rarely happens, and I've watched since the very beginning), but the acting or the storyline or something just seemed really off to me.

Yes!! Everyone seemed so, I don't know, forced or disconnected or something. I thought maybe I was just having a hard time getting into this epi (rarely happens, and I've watched since the very beginning), but the acting or the storyline or something just seemed really off to me.



I don't feel that way. I think it was a great episode. i don't think anything seemed forced, I think we really needed an episode that was lighter than what we've seen this season so far. I loved it.

I thought the way Kate said "what are we even talking about?' to Sawyer in the beginning seemed kinda freaky...just something about it gave me the chills.

I dont think its been 2-3 weeks. They were captured in the finale last season, this is episode 10, each episode is approx. a day, so it should be just a little over a week since J/K/S have been gone.

i absolutely agree with dtdionne, that episode was so weird. i really felt like everyone was acting so different, way out of character. granted it was a light episode, it was still just weird. i wasnt much of a fan.

it was like everything was kind of phony. sawyer's many pop culture references were a little over the top, plus he was just acting....different, cant put my finger on it. yea and when sawyer got the dart stuck in his foot, kate acted different and sounded different than normal. it really freaked me out!

I agree that some things were out of character for our survivors. Like Sawyer bonding with Charlie, Hurley and Jin!!! I don't think it's that serious though, it's not like the characters changed dramatically. They are still the same.

well sawyer was probably pretty darned relieved to still be alive... how many times was he nearly killed during his captivity with the others? A bunch. He was simply happy to sit back and have a few skunk beers.

I didn't notice it until I read this tread, but now thinking back when Kate was in the jungle looking for Danielle and Locke and Sayid came up and asked why didn't Kate ask for their help. Kate responded something on the lines of "you didn't have direction nor are you motivated". This makes me ask since when has Locke not been motivated to do anything? Correct me if I'm wrong, Locke responded back your right about the motivation but we do have a compass point. When Sayid tells her how the got the compass point (off Eko's stick) Kate has no reaction about Eko being dead. This is weird.

The only person I thought who acted out of character was Kate. She even looked different too.

Is this a joke - only two people were new - unless of course you are making fun of the fact that so far you have only seen the Others -- this season ??


What two people were new? Are you talking about in the flashbacks? Other then the flashbacks, I didn't see any new people. Did I miss something?

I didn't notice it until I read this tread, but now thinking back when Kate was in the jungle looking for Danielle and Locke and Sayid came up and asked why didn't Kate ask for their help. Kate responded something on the lines of "you didn't have direction nor are you motivated". This makes me ask since when has Locke not been motivated to do anything?


totally agree!! Locke is the most motivated person there, if there were a discussion about who was the most motivated, I think Locke would be way up there. I know that Kate probably thinks that Locke and Sayid can't be as motivated as her to get Jack back, but I think she's off base with that one.

Hear, hear! I totally agree things seemed really off-kilter this episode. It was like the characters weren't themselves. Saying weird lines that sounded so forced and acting really strangely. Especially Hurley - he really seemed different this episode. And Sawyer (formerly one of my favourite characters) is fast becoming a parody of himself. It just doesn't seem natural. Forced motivations, clumsy exposition, and in my opinion, bad writing all round.

I hope this isn't a trend. But I think it really depends on the quality of writer and director for the episode. We need to get the creative team behind 'Flashes' back! Now THAT was Lost.

Yeah. Except for FBYE, the show has seemed odd to me this season, too. I miss seasons one and two.

:(

I think I've spotted something....well not really a something, I've been sitting here thinking how in the bleep can people see this so differently because to me it is more obvious then then if I had a ding dong hangin off the side of my head when it hit me (no, not the ding dong) I am one of those people that watched, becuase of my SO, Greys Anatomy and it wasnt until Oct 30th of this year (mom's bday) that I saw my first episode of lost....

Mom lives in Hawaii, I was racking my brain trying to find something that really told her how much i loved her when I got the best idea. A few min later I had a round trip ticket to hawaii for a week. Just before I left I was in BestBuy and saw Seasons 1 and 2 on dvd and thought, oh, neat and I got em, really having no clue what I had just done. I land, get in the rental and drive to my mom's house, up the stairs and rang the doorbell....i had just shaved my head like a week before and when she answered the door she looked at me and said, who are you, i just smilled and said something like candy gram and by all accounts including her husbands, this was the first and quite possibly the only time my mom has been speachless. It was great, makes me tear up thinking about it. So we finish dinner and I very innocently said, hey wana watch an episode of lost? That was at about 7:30pm.....

The next day at about 12:30pm my mom was begging me to goto bed so she wouldnt miss anything...we were TOTALLY blindsided. We spent a GREAT deal of that week watching Lost, non-stop, back to back. I will say this, I DO NOT KNOW HOW YOU POOR PEOPLE MADE IT BETWEEN SEASONS 1 AND 2!!!!!!!!!! I seriously damn near died of suspense for all of the 35 seconds it took me to change DVD's from the 1 season to the 2nd Season. I was getting tunnel vision as I pressed play.

So anyway, my point is that in 3 or 4 short months I not only watched the 1, 2 and what there was of the 3rd seasons, I watched them at least 3 times which means that all of the characters behavior is VERY VERY engrained and even more fresh in my mind, not to take anything away from anyone of course, but the changes in behavior have to be, well.....as obvious as if i had a...well you get it.

I'm sorry, I'm having a really hard time putting my finger on it or even get remotley close for that matter.

Due to falling ratings, TPTB have decided to turn over their scripts to their 6-year old nephews in hopes of still finding some people who do not criticise their episodes in the same age bracket.

So far, Angela wrote all the sappy love scenes and little Brett is writing all the dialogue. TPTB hope you enjoy it ;)

Seriously, the writing has been going downhill from the 'You hittin' that' onwards, and these scenes were no exception. If you don't see what the differences between S1 and S3 are, it's not even worth bickering...

Kate, to me, hands down does not seem like herself at all...

Of course, she's not her normal self. Of course, she's changed. And of course, she's acting a little weird or freaky.

The woman was drugged, kidnapped, gagged, taken to an unknown location, handcuffed, forced to do manual labor, witnesses Sawyer get the crap beat out of him almost daily, watched Sawyer almost have his head blown off right in front of her, she was emotionally tortured, for awhile she didn't know if Jack was alive or dead, she was imprisoned in a cage, do I need to go on?

Think about it, if all that happened to you, and you were finally able to escape only to leave someone behind you truly care for, don't you think you'd be a little "freaky" or "weird" or not yourself?

The writers/producers have set up since season 1, that Kate is a runner. She runs. That's what she does. So imagine taking someone like that and holding them in a cage for a week, or 2 or 3. It changed who she was. Honestly, if this were real life, a person like that would be suffering from Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome. So I find it quite realisitc that Kate is acting unlike herself. If she was acting like her normal self after such a traumatic event, THAT is what I would find weird and freaky.

Idemandashrubbery, spot on....

I just found a perfect and depressing example of what I'm talking about....I went back and watched Numbers, Epi 18, Season 1, for a thread started by Baileysdad and at the end of that epi, Charlie and Hugo share painful secrets...Charlie shares his drug addiction and Hugo tells Charlie that he's cursed and that he caused the plane crash and all of that.......then in this recent epi, when Vincent comes out of the jungle with Randy's arm, Hugo tells Charlie the exact same thing about being cursed and they both act like it was brand new info and in Lost time the amount of time between the two converstaions could not have been more then 2 weeks at most.....

SOOO SO sad.....but like i said, I LOVE this show and nothing will stop me from watching it.

It is very interesting overall to read the enormous variety of responses, reactions, and feelings of so many people on these boards. For everyone who totally hated an episode, there seems to be a relatively equal amount of people who loved the same episode. The same holds true for the characters... for some they just don't do the things they'd be expected to do. I think for those viewers who are into characters - they just look at each character and many just accept whatever the characters are doing at any given point... For those viewers who are into the mystery of the island and not the characters - it is a very different viewing experience. Personally I'm interested in the latter - I am not a character driven viewer - I want all the characters to be a part of answering the mysteries. I want the flashbacks to be something that answers something regarding why that character ended up on the island. And I want things to somehow relate. With that in mind, I agree that many if not all of the characters are "off". I watch the show because I want to know more. I don't see the show as an episodic comedy or a show with unrelated stand alone episodes- I want to see a progression from one show to the next. I want things to relate to what I've already seen and I want to learn something. So for me, the past few episodes have been completely disappointing. The characters' action aren't making sense to me. I realized a long time ago that the idea of "time" isn't the same on the show as it is in real life.. what is one day for me is more like 108 minutes for the show. Things don't progress in a relative time line.. however--- even with that in mind -- things are still not making any sense to me as far as what is going on with the characters...
For me - the writing this entire season has been lacking. I think it may be that the different writers are writing for the characters instead of writing for the mysteries of the island. Once they write the characters, they're trying to get it to fit into everything else.. and it just isn't working for me.. I don't want the show to become a soap opera based on the characters -- I want the characters to be the story tellers of what is going on... not the story of the characters themselves.
I'm not sure I was able to explain this.. if I didn't.. please ignore me :ohwell:

What in the bleep is going on?!? I do not know any of these characters...who are they, and for the second time, what is going on?

I'm lost


That was the single weirdest epi I have ever seen...period. It almost feels like I just watched a Pilot for a new show....


I had started a thread on how I felt Locke was off a bit, unsure if it was the actor, or just the way the directors are setting up scenes now. I can paste it here:


Hi, everyone.

Just became a recent poster here a few days ago, and am a big fan of Lost, obviously.

I have to say, Locke is one of my favorite characters, along with Sawyer (my favorite) and Jin. Locke seemed in character until that episode where Eko dies. Locke's way of speaking seems more unnatural (for him), I am not sure how to describe it. He seems to say things without his natural pauses. Sounds crazy, believe me I hear you!

After Eko dies, Sayid, I think, asks what killed Eko, and Locke just blurts out the island, very normally. Usually, there is some sort of pause, and Locke will then deliver his line in his usual ominous Locke way. But even during the eulogy he gives to Eko, he seemed off slightly.

Then when Charlie and Desmond encounter Sayid and Locke, Locke just blurts out that "Eko is dead." For some reason his delivery FEELS different.

He seems to be more robotic now with his word flow. Does anyone get the feeling that the directors aren't capturing his essence the way they did before? They would have the ominous music playing, and Locke would pause and say words with dramatic effect. It seems as if lately he is more monotone and robotic, and doesn't seem to have his usual dialogue style.

This could all be due to us not seeing him alot in the last couple months- Locke not having the usual screen time that he does. It just seems like he is delivering his lines differently.

Sorry, this has just been bothering me for a couple months ;-)

LostPack, exactly....

And wow, going back and watching Numbers from Season 1 this morning was a GIGANTOR eye opener, I would have to reccomend not doing that as it has only served to depress me more.....if anyone reading this thread is, has been or is still unclear, I think this snippit crystalizes it:

http://www.dionne.net/me/lost/missing.wmv

and for Mac users:

http://www.dionne.net/me/lost/missing.mp4

It is very interesting overall to read the enormous variety of responses, reactions, and feelings of so many people on these boards. For everyone who totally hated an episode, there seems to be a relatively equal amount of people who loved the same episode. The same holds true for the characters... for some they just don't do the things they'd be expected to do. I think for those viewers who are into characters - they just look at each character and many just accept whatever the characters are doing at any given point... For those viewers who are into the mystery of the island and not the characters - it is a very different viewing experience. Personally I'm interested in the latter - I am not a character driven viewer - I want all the characters to be a part of answering the mysteries. I want the flashbacks to be something that answers something regarding why that character ended up on the island. And I want things to somehow relate. With that in mind, I agree that many if not all of the characters are "off". I watch the show because I want to know more. I don't see the show as an episodic comedy or a show with unrelated stand alone episodes- I want to see a progression from one show to the next. I want things to relate to what I've already seen and I want to learn something. So for me, the past few episodes have been completely disappointing. The characters' action aren't making sense to me. I realized a long time ago that the idea of "time" isn't the same on the show as it is in real life.. what is one day for me is more like 108 minutes for the show. Things don't progress in a relative time line.. however--- even with that in mind -- things are still not making any sense to me as far as what is going on with the characters...
For me - the writing this entire season has been lacking. I think it may be that the different writers are writing for the characters instead of writing for the mysteries of the island. Once they write the characters, they're trying to get it to fit into everything else.. and it just isn't working for me.. I don't want the show to become a soap opera based on the characters -- I want the characters to be the story tellers of what is going on... not the story of the characters themselves.
I'm not sure I was able to explain this.. if I didn't.. please ignore me :ohwell:


LostPack, I love Lost, and am a big fan of the show, but I completely agree with you. The show's writing has not been consistent- it has lacked. Very good post...

Yeah, I came here just to ask about locke not being motivated.

Why would Locke admit to not being motivated about finding Jack?

I thought it was weird enough when Locke found out that Walt was taken, he didn't do anything, and he and Walt were friends. Maybe Locke thinks they're all better off without Jack?

Have Sayid and Locke, the two smartest, strongest characters really just been sitting on the beach doing nothing for the week or so J/K/S were captive?

C'mon guys, really. They're still the same characters to me, only they are reacting to what has happened to them. God forbid that the characters should change, evolve, or show any kind of realistic reaction to extreme circumstances.

Seriously, would you go up to a friend whose mother had died the day before and say, "what's wrong with you, man? You seem a little off." Of course you wouldn't. These are people who have been through the most traumatic experience of their lives on DAY ONE, only to have it compounded again and again my more shock, pain, and tragedy. To expect their characters NOT to change in their 2 and a half months on the island would be ridiculous.

Locke has changed because of the incident with the hatch, and the writers were very clear about this. He was a solid believer in destiny and pupose in life until he saw the Pearl hatch video, at which point he lost his faith. But his faith was not only restored by the island when he found that there in fact WAS a reason to push the button, but he also learned to trust others again. Much tragedy came from the fact that he alienated others in the first two seasons, and he clearly recognizes that. He makes a specific point to say that he is NOT a leader like Jack in "The Cost of Living," when he invites others to come to the Pearl with him. It is also why he is quicker to answer questions and not be vague or mysterious. He has learned the price of such behavior. His trust of others also extends to asking Hurley and Charlie to take leadership roles in FBYE. To me this is all a very natural, believable extension of the charcter's evolution and I have a hard time seeing why it is so difficult for others to understand.

You want your characters to always be exactly the same, to never grow and change over time as the result of extraordinary experiences both positive and negative? You're probably better off reading a comic book from the sixties or watching Full House. Lost is a deep, thoughtfully written drama in which characters are shown to respond and be affected by the incredible circumstances in which they have been placed. Nothing ever remains the same for long on the show.

C'mon guys, really. They're still the same characters to me, only they are reacting to what has happened to them. God forbid that the characters should change, evolve, or show any kind of realistic reaction to extreme circumstances...
To me this is all a very natural, believable extension of the charcter's evolution and I have a hard time seeing why it is so difficult for others to understand....
You want your characters to always be exactly the same, to never grow and change over time as the result of extraordinary experiences both positive and negative? You're probably better off reading a comic book from the sixties or watching Full House. Lost is a deep, thoughtfully written drama in which characters are shown to respond and be affected by the incredible circumstances in which they have been placed. Nothing ever remains the same for long on the show.

The problem I find is that the characters are not growing or changing - and have not at all been reacting to anything that is going on either in a realistic or unrealistic way. The writing of late seems to just be random stories about this or that character, which do not in any way have anything to do with anything. The best way I can explain what I'm trying to say is that I think the characters should be the story tellers of a story that flows and progresses in some deep and thoughtful manner consistent with the type of show Lost started out as. An episode devoted to Jack's tattoo was completely irrelevant to me - first because the tattoo is the actor's tattoo and has nothing whatsoever to do with the island (or the show for that matter). The tattoo doesn't mean squat. IF in the pilot episode the viewers were shown that this tattoo appeared after the plane crash - then I would be extremely interested in the tattoo. (even though I know it really is the actors' personal tattoo) But my feeling was that the writers of this episode were trying to write a Jack centered episode and tried (but failed) to have it relate to the island. It didn't do it for me. That isn't to say that it was not a good episode - maybe for another show like the Dr. Jack Show - but not for Lost- where the story goes beyond any individual character..
I have the same issue for the Hurley goes for a ride show.. the writing of the episode did nothing to flow or progress what should be a deep, thoughtfully written show.. we watched 45 minutes of men ignoring anything of importance in an old van in the middle of the island that no one had previously discovered, and we're expected to buy into that van being there for all this time yet still be drivable with beer that is drinkable.. again, my impression was hey let's write an episode for hurley.. ok.. well when he was a kid his dad took off and left him.. and this happened after they were going to fix a car.. so.. let's have him find an old van on the island and this time he fixes it.. yeah.. go us.. that will make a great episode..

As I said.. and it is my own personal feeling which I don't expect others to share... but I would like the characters to be the story tellers of things that relate to where they are now.

The problem I find is that the characters are not growing or changing - and have not at all been reacting to anything that is going on either in a realistic or unrealistic way.

Would this include Hurley's recent talk at Libby's grave, Locke's changes as previously mentioned, Eko's change of heart in regards to his penitence, or Desmond's confused despondence after his time jumping experience?

An episode devoted to Jack's tattoo was completely irrelevant to me - first because the tattoo is the actor's tattoo and has nothing whatsoever to do with the island (or the show for that matter). The tattoo doesn't mean squat.

I'll concede SIASL as I also feel it was a comlpletely wasted episode. If they had told the same story a season ago, and figured out how to give it some relevance beyond "how Jack got his tattoos," it might have been okay. But instead, they used it as a filler flashback because they somehow feel an obligation to give Jack the most flashbacks. So I'm in 100% agreement with you on SIASL, but I see that episode as a hiccup in an otherwise strong season (and series for that matter).

I have the same issue for the Hurley goes for a ride show.. the writing of the episode did nothing to flow or progress what should be a deep, thoughtfully written show.. we watched 45 minutes of men ignoring anything of importance in an old van in the middle of the island that no one had previously discovered

Well... setting aside the fact that the episode was intended as a bit of whimsical relief after a very dark and prolonged story arc, and the fact that it was almost universally loved for what it set out to do, I think you're missed a couple of big things here.

The common thread in all of Hurley's flashbacks is that he has felt himself to not be in control of his life and his circumstances. From Numbers, which introduced the idea that he is "cursed," to Everybody Hates Hugo in which he went through great lengths to prevent any change in his life, to Dave in which we actually manifested an outside influence telling him what to do, he has had no control. TTID introduced his father, who told him that this lack of control was all in his head-- that he could change it if he truly believed he could.

Hurley was finally pushed to the point where he was able to do that, likely as a result of all the horrible happenings that have piled up as he described at Libby's grave. It's easy to forget that Hurley has been blaming himself for nearly everything bad that has happened on the island, including the crash itself, because of his belief in the numbers curse. The symbolic starting of the car meant SO much more than just a fun comic relief moment. It meant that Hurley is taking back his destiny. Not only that, but Charlie did too by "riding shotgun."

So the connections to the larger story may not be spelled out every time, but they are there. As someone who posts on a Lost message board, you have access to thousands of people to converse with in order to parse these morsels of meaning out from each episode. Don't be afraid to do a little work in order to look for bigger meaning. It's very rewarding.

The problem I find is that the characters are not growing or changing - and have not at all been reacting to anything that is going on either in a realistic or unrealistic way.
Would this include Hurley's recent talk at Libby's grave, Locke's changes as previously mentioned, Eko's change of heart in regards to his penitence, or Desmond's confused despondence after his time jumping experience?
Actually, yes.. because each of those actions could have been used to tell a story - instead I felt that each got lost in an irrelevant story. Using Hurley talking at Libby's grave for example - I thought that was the most awesome scene with Hurley. He was not only expressing himself, but he was telling a story that was strong and meaningful. Then wham.. the focus goes to driving a van... that's the point where I feel the writers aren't writing for the show - they are writing for a character and the 2 roads simply don't meet at that point. That first scene however did work for me.. it told a story that showed what the heck was going on. But for me it just stalled right there. That stall has been the issue I've had with much of the writing.

I have to admit that after a little thought, I do agree with most of what you posted RBen - but I just think that the writing could have been much better overall as far as progressing the overall story when the opportunity was there. And that one scene with Hurley talking to Libby is exactly the thing I'm frustrated over.

It's all been down hill since the death of Eko !!

I asked Greg Nations about the different writers on the show and how they keep the tone consistent:
http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=70281

He said that they do have a ton of writers (and he also noted the importance of directors) but that Damon and Carlton are there to keep the consistency.

I agree that Kate's behavior was reasonable given her experience, but Hurley and Charlie talking about the curse as if it was the first time (which I don't remember but I'll take your word) sounds like a small thing that got through their system. Imagine all of the details that all of these writers need to keep track of! It seems like they have quite a bit of turnover in writers...

I feel bad that Echo is gone - but I also understand the actor wanted to go - So we can't hold that against the writers -
I just hope that we will be as pleased as they say we will with the new characters -

Actually, yes.. because each of those actions could have been used to tell a story - instead I felt that each got lost in an irrelevant story. Using Hurley talking at Libby's grave for example - I thought that was the most awesome scene with Hurley. He was not only expressing himself, but he was telling a story that was strong and meaningful. Then wham.. the focus goes to driving a van... that's the point where I feel the writers aren't writing for the show - they are writing for a character and the 2 roads simply don't meet at that point. That first scene however did work for me.. it told a story that showed what the heck was going on. But for me it just stalled right there. That stall has been the issue I've had with much of the writing.

I have to admit that after a little thought, I do agree with most of what you posted RBen - but I just think that the writing could have been much better overall as far as progressing the overall story when the opportunity was there. And that one scene with Hurley talking to Libby is exactly the thing I'm frustrated over.What I don't get though, is where you would have taken that scene after that point... what else there was left to do with it. I mean, surely you don't expect an entire episode to be spent with Hurley mourning-- doing things like walking to the spot where they were going to have their picnic and saying, "This was where we were going to have our picnic," walking to the cliff where they had their first kiss and saying, "This is the cliff where we had our first kiss," etc? So I'm seriously asking what you would have added to that scene to make it more palatable to you.

Drama needs forward momentum. TTID had to have a visual, physically accessible plot rather than just people sitting on a beach talking to each other (which is what I think of every time someone complains that they characters "don't tell each other enough"-- I really have a hard time imagining what they are expecting). The writers had, as I see it, two main goals for the A-story of TTID-- tell a lighthearted, humorous episode to break some of the tension coming off of the Alcatraz arc, and give some advancement to Hurley's character. I think they accomplished both of those things handily. But I'd still be curious to hear what you would have done differently.

Yes!! Everyone seemed so, I don't know, forced or disconnected or something. I thought maybe I was just having a hard time getting into this epi (rarely happens, and I've watched since the very beginning), but the acting or the storyline or something just seemed really off to me.


I totally agree with all who have said this. The characters just did not seem as real...the show did not draw me in like it usually does...it was strange.

What I don't get though, is where you would have taken that scene after that point... what else there was left to do with it. I mean, surely you don't expect an entire episode to be spent with Hurley mourning-- doing things like walking to the spot where they were going to have their picnic and saying, "This was where we were going to have our picnic," walking to the cliff where they had their first kiss and saying, "This is the cliff where we had our first kiss," etc? So I'm seriously asking what you would have added to that scene to make it more palatable to you.
That scene was perfect. That scene in my opinion doesn't need anything added to it. Therein lies the problem I have with the writing... from that scene we went nowhere and it became a 40 minute journey of fluff with actions that simply were nonsense. We see a beautifully done scene that showed how Hurley was feeling. Then we have Vincent show up with a skeletal arm and hand with a key on a keychain. I'm guessing at the time of the van accident that caused the van to roll onto its' side Roger, the driver, managed to remove the key from the ignition and grasped it firmly in his hand rather than escape from said van and proceeded to die. For several decades, dead Roger remained in the toppled over van holding the key in his skeletal remains (along with decades old Dharma beer) until Vincent decides to re-appear and retrieve the key still in the decayed drivers' hand. So far I'm not seeing this as lighthearted or humorous.. I see it as a plain silly stupid dumb way to write a story around something that tells us nothing. Again, my impression was hey let's write an episode for Hurley.. ok.. when he was a kid his dad took off and left him.. and this happened after they were going to fix a car.. so.. let's have him find an old van on the island and this time he fixes it.. yeah.. go us.. that will make a great episode.. Then we watch as they right the van and the corpse's head falls off. I'm still struggling at this point with how the key to the van got into the corpse's hand in the first place and now I wonder if the head was so decayed as to allow it to fall off how did that key manage to remain securely in the hand.. IF Lost was a comedic series maybe I would have thought.. oh how funny this is.. BUT that's not the show I like to watch. And it didn't stop there. Then we have the characters ignore the contents of the van - except for the decades old beer. They resurrect Roger's skeletal body and hang out with him. Then in an attempt to show that hope has been found they manage to get a decades old crashed van that has been sitting in a jungle to start. SO my issue is with this way of trying to tell a story. It just didn't work (for me) because I like to have at least a small shred of believability. While Charlie and Hurley may have found hope - I felt that all my hope is fading after seeing 2 episodes back to back that went nowhere overall. And as I've said, my preference is to see the characters as the story tellers for the overall story - a nice blend of character/island.

Drama needs forward momentum. TTID had to have a visual, physically accessible plot rather than just people sitting on a beach talking to each other (which is what I think of every time someone complains that they characters "don't tell each other enough"-- I really have a hard time imagining what they are expecting). The writers had, as I see it, two main goals for the A-story of TTID-- tell a lighthearted, humorous episode to break some of the tension coming off of the Alcatraz arc, and give some advancement to Hurley's character. I think they accomplished both of those things handily. But I'd still be curious to hear what you would have done differently.
YES - drama needs forward momentum. That is exactly what I feel is lacking. The DRAMA and the FORWARD MOMENTUM. There was no drama - except for that first scene. The only forward momentum was the old van starting up - but I have a hard time buying that a van sitting abandoned with a dead guy holding the keys filled with beer would start up.. or even move forward for that matter.. there's just too much there that isn't believable. How would I have done it? I'm not a writer for Lost so thats really a moot point - but I'm pretty sure that would not have been my choice for this show.

It's been said but I gotta say it as well; this episode felt like a homecoming for ME! These are the characters I have missed! This is old school Lost if you ask me.

I think I've spotted something....well not really a something, I've been sitting here thinking how in the bleep can people see this so differently because to me it is more obvious then then if I had a ding dong hangin off the side of my head when it hit me (no, not the ding dong) I am one of those people that watched, becuase of my SO, Greys Anatomy and it wasnt until Oct 30th of this year (mom's bday) that I saw my first episode of lost....

Mom lives in Hawaii, I was racking my brain trying to find something that really told her how much i loved her when I got the best idea. A few min later I had a round trip ticket to hawaii for a week. Just before I left I was in BestBuy and saw Seasons 1 and 2 on dvd and thought, oh, neat and I got em, really having no clue what I had just done. I land, get in the rental and drive to my mom's house, up the stairs and rang the doorbell....i had just shaved my head like a week before and when she answered the door she looked at me and said, who are you, i just smilled and said something like candy gram and by all accounts including her husbands, this was the first and quite possibly the only time my mom has been speachless. It was great, makes me tear up thinking about it. So we finish dinner and I very innocently said, hey wana watch an episode of lost? That was at about 7:30pm.....

The next day at about 12:30pm my mom was begging me to goto bed so she wouldnt miss anything...we were TOTALLY blindsided. We spent a GREAT deal of that week watching Lost, non-stop, back to back. I will say this, I DO NOT KNOW HOW YOU POOR PEOPLE MADE IT BETWEEN SEASONS 1 AND 2!!!!!!!!!! I seriously damn near died of suspense for all of the 35 seconds it took me to change DVD's from the 1 season to the 2nd Season. I was getting tunnel vision as I pressed play.

So anyway, my point is that in 3 or 4 short months I not only watched the 1, 2 and what there was of the 3rd seasons, I watched them at least 3 times which means that all of the characters behavior is VERY VERY engrained and even more fresh in my mind, not to take anything away from anyone of course, but the changes in behavior have to be, well.....as obvious as if i had a...well you get it.

I totally agree with you. It is very obvious. I think "Flashes" showed a return to the quality of the previous seasons but other than that great episode, nothing is making sense. It does seem as if nothing has happened on the beach. No one has taken a leadership role which is odd b/c there are some very strong personalities. One would think they would all be afraid of being taken by the others or killed by smokey and work together to formulate some type of plan. Instead, it's as if they're on vacation. Jin, Desmond and Sayid are all strong men who have had military/hitman training. It's odd that they would just sit around and wait for the others to come get them. And, one would think that Sun would be freaking out after killing an other while narrowly avoiding being abducted.

So it sounds like you like one specific kind of episode-- those like FBYE, Maternity Leave, or "?" which reveal major plot points in the mythology. That's cool, but you have remember that not everyone watches Lost for the same reasons.

Take just these first four episodes since the hiatus. Each one appealed to a different part of Lost's many facets. Not in Portland was an action episode combined with new mythology questions. Chases through the forest, shooting, tension, the works. FBYE was a pure mythology episode with a bit of shipping mixed in, satisfying the sci-fi fans and the Penny/Des fans. SIASL attempted to be a "character" episode for Jack, and a shipper episode for Jacket. TTID was a humor/ensemble/fun episode.

To me, this is a great strength of the series rather than a weakness. Every week I sit in a room with seven people who watch Lost for varying reasons. I have two friends who talk about the ships and are obsessed with Sayid and Sawyer. I have a friend who loves the humor and fun and thinks TTID is the best episode of the series. I have a couple of friends who like to sit and theorize with me for hours. And yet we all come together and get our fix each week, and we love the group experience. For me, a show that can accomplish that is just great television.

I have one question, "Whats with Kate calling Sawyer James all of a sudden"? she never did this before, the only person I remember using his real name was Locke. This I did find odd and so did my brother by the way and he never comments about anything.

She started calling him James after they had sex, signifying a newfound intimacy between the two. Likewise, he called her "Freckles" consistently, not Kate or other nicknames.

After their conversation after she pulled out the dart, as soon as Sawyer refused to apologize to her, she said "welcome home, Sawyer," indicating that she understood that their newfound intimacy was dead, and he replied "welcome home, Kate," showing he understood the same thing.

So it sounds like you like one specific kind of episode-- those like FBYE, Maternity Leave, or "?" which reveal major plot points in the mythology. That's cool, but you have remember that not everyone watches Lost for the same reasons.

Yes. I admit that I really enjoy those sort of episodes. And I do try to sprinkle the fact that I'm not a "character" driven fan and that whatever I say is just my opinion based on what I like. I do attempt at least to explain why I - me.. just LostPack.. reacts to these things based on what I like. I want mythology revealed. I don't care how unbelievable it is if it is done in a way that is believable on the island.. I have no problem with mind reading black smokey things or polar bears in the jungle.. because it fit the mythology. I had a problem with the whole van thing because it (to me) fit no where. Very hard to explain.. but thats just how I see it.

Take just these first four episodes since the hiatus. Each one appealed to a different part of Lost's many facets. Not in Portland was an action episode combined with new mythology questions. Chases through the forest, shooting, tension, the works. FBYE was a pure mythology episode with a bit of shipping mixed in, satisfying the sci-fi fans and the Penny/Des fans. SIASL attempted to be a "character" episode for Jack, and a shipper episode for Jacket. TTID was a humor/ensemble/fun episode.

I totally agree with you. I probably should point out that even an episode that I dislike is still a better episode than any other show.. granted I only watch Lost and House.. but for both I'd rather see a bad episode than none at all.

To me, this is a great strength of the series rather than a weakness. Every week I sit in a room with seven people who watch Lost for varying reasons. I have two friends who talk about the ships and are obsessed with Sayid and Sawyer. I have a friend who loves the humor and fun and thinks TTID is the best episode of the series. I have a couple of friends who like to sit and theorize with me for hours. And yet we all come together and get our fix each week, and we love the group experience. For me, a show that can accomplish that is just great television.
It is definitely a strength. There will always be people who hate something while others love it. That's a good thing. And regardless, I will watch Lost until the final episode airs.
I'm old enough to know that very few things in life will ever be custom made for me and all my personal likes. :)

She started calling him James after they had sex, signifying a newfound intimacy between the two. Likewise, he called her "Freckles" consistently, not Kate or other nicknames.

After their conversation after she pulled out the dart, as soon as Sawyer refused to apologize to her, she said "welcome home, Sawyer," indicating that she understood that their newfound intimacy was dead, and he replied "welcome home, Kate," showing he understood the same thing.I thought the same thing, but looking at the transcripts (losthatch.com (http://losthatch.com/transcripts.aspx)) doesn't really support it. I think she actually uses "James" like parents use child's first and middle name, having used it only 4 times: when she unlocks his cage in I Do; SIASL's annoyed "No, James, I ain't hungry" and then twice in the Sorry conversation in TTID. I think they had Kate repeat the names James a couple times in the Sorry conversation before the "Welcome home, Sawyer" to give us that impression that there was a emotional difference between the two for Kate, but having looked at it more closely, I'm not so sure.

Well, I'll have to take your word for it-- I'm not one to go rifling through transcripts, but more power to ya.

Hmmm. I thought the episode was kind of odd/different, but still good... A lot more humor than usual, that's for sure. I think it shows Hurley's "curse" is finally broken. And the Road to Shambala song definitely could have had a lot of underlying meaning... I'm hoping since Charlie also kind of "took control of his own destiny", he won't be "killed off"...

Maybe Locke, Sayid, Kate, Sawyer, et. al. are acting a little differently because they're getting the "sickness" that Danielle referred to in Season 1???:confused:

I guess we'll just have to see how this week's episode plays out...! (and the next and the next, etc.!!:) )

Referring to the Charlie/Hurley repeated "Opening up" sceneds, when Hurley brought up his curse to Charlie in this episode, my interpretation of the scene was that Charlie rolled his eyes in an "Oh God not this curse business again" manner. When Hurley brought it up in Numbers, Charlie didn't really acknownledge it, he cut Hurley off and said something to the effect of stuff happens get over yourself lets talk about ME.

I for one will go on the record saying this episode was brilliant to me. I just see shifts in focus in the storylines from character to character and it's not really Locke/Sayid's time to be in the spotlight. I don't see Kate acting too out of character for all the trauma you guys have already mentioned, plus the fact of having had sex with Sawyer and still having feelings for Jack, then leaving Jack behind. I thought she totally seemed all business when they got back to camp and I can't see any plausibility issues there.

I loved the ep too and I think perhaps people are being overanalytical on the character development. I would like to know who has gone through this sort of thing before...:) because if not, how can you say who would act like what. Don't get me wrong, we are all entitled to our opinions but lets not pretend we are phsyciatrists here (of course even they disagree most of the time).

I love all parts of the show, I love the humour of the Hurley eps, let's face it - every Hurley ep has been tinged with humour...the race through the airport, getting busted by the cops as he's driving up to mom's huge new house that is now on fire. Hurley himself is a semi-comical but the most lovable character. I didn't find he or Charlie out of character in this ep, they are usually just on the fringe of the major happenings, remember the golf?? As for Sawyer hanging around having beers with the boys, this is totally in character - remember his drinking at the bar with Jack's dad. No they aren't friends but I think after his ordeal of almost being killed multiple times, and his experiences with Kate he needed some "guy time". Jin is his most likely ally at this point after their ordeals together with the tailies - they did have some kind of bonding and Jin saw that he has compassion for others during that time. I loved the scene where he was teaching Jin English!!!

As for Sayid and Locke, ok that was a little odd. I thought their behaviour was odd and the lack of motivation but keep in mind they just watched Eko die and Sayid was on a boat trying to rescue our kidnapees not that long ago. We haven't seen these guys and Kate sit down and talk so we don't know what's going on with them. I also thought maybe the sickness is creeping in...since we don't know what it is yet, there's no way to tell how it might affect people.

I think Kate is perfectly believable after all the trauma she's endured and I find here actions at the end of the ep perfectly in character. I don't see what's wrong here.

I love the mythology eps as well though and I thought the des ep was fantastic. I could have done without the Jack tat ep but I'm not a big Jack fan. I find him boring of late. I love it all and I think the fact that there is this much discussion over one ep is pretty awesome and says a lot for the show. The last time I felt this strongly about a show was...well...hmmm...never!!

Most of you who didn't like this episode are more focused on the mythology of the show, I'm guessing? Though I'll admt I found this episode boring, as I did for SIASL, if every episode was mythology driven and didn't focus on the characters then this would be Heroes. Even in season 1, which everyone seems to miss, was very character driven. That was the golden season for flashbacks.
I think the writers need to deliver mythology episodes a little more often, with character developments in them. Like 3 minutes: Great information about the others, and wonderful developments for Michael- more episodes should be like that.

I think I've spotted something....well not really a something, I've been sitting here thinking how in the bleep can people see this so differently because to me it is more obvious then then if I had a ding dong hangin off the side of my head when it hit me (no, not the ding dong) I am one of those people that watched, becuase of my SO, Greys Anatomy and it wasnt until Oct 30th of this year (mom's bday) that I saw my first episode of lost....

Mom lives in Hawaii, I was racking my brain trying to find something that really told her how much i loved her when I got the best idea. A few min later I had a round trip ticket to hawaii for a week. Just before I left I was in BestBuy and saw Seasons 1 and 2 on dvd and thought, oh, neat and I got em, really having no clue what I had just done. I land, get in the rental and drive to my mom's house, up the stairs and rang the doorbell....i had just shaved my head like a week before and when she answered the door she looked at me and said, who are you, i just smilled and said something like candy gram and by all accounts including her husbands, this was the first and quite possibly the only time my mom has been speachless. It was great, makes me tear up thinking about it. So we finish dinner and I very innocently said, hey wana watch an episode of lost? That was at about 7:30pm.....

The next day at about 12:30pm my mom was begging me to goto bed so she wouldnt miss anything...we were TOTALLY blindsided. We spent a GREAT deal of that week watching Lost, non-stop, back to back. I will say this, I DO NOT KNOW HOW YOU POOR PEOPLE MADE IT BETWEEN SEASONS 1 AND 2!!!!!!!!!! I seriously damn near died of suspense for all of the 35 seconds it took me to change DVD's from the 1 season to the 2nd Season. I was getting tunnel vision as I pressed play.

So anyway, my point is that in 3 or 4 short months I not only watched the 1, 2 and what there was of the 3rd seasons, I watched them at least 3 times which means that all of the characters behavior is VERY VERY engrained and even more fresh in my mind, not to take anything away from anyone of course, but the changes in behavior have to be, well.....as obvious as if i had a...well you get it.


HAHAHHAHA I LOVED THIS POST! Watching LOST on DVD ( it happens to the best of us)

It is true. The person I found was the strangest was LOCKE. I laughed really hard because lately everytime we see Locke or Sayid they are standing in the jungle with guns and torches. SO whenever Kate tells Danielle about Alex they look from Kate to Danielle with blank faces, gun and torches in hand. HAHAHAHAHAHA

I Love this show.

it was like everything was kind of phony. sawyer's many pop culture references were a little over the top, plus he was just acting....different, cant put my finger on it. yea and when sawyer got the dart stuck in his foot, kate acted different and sounded different than normal. it really freaked me out!
The actors must read about the many viewers complaints, also the fact that their screen time has been very unequal. The pressure's on too, even though they aren't the ones writing the show, the negativity has to effect them. Also, it's human nature to feel resentment when some castmates get all the screentime and others get little to almost none. I'm sure all these things affect the actors moods and it shows whether they realize it or not. Lots of inner conflicts going on like guilt, jealousy, though they are good friends and fortunate beyond belief to be part of a successful show. Just my opinions, anyway.

it was like everything was kind of phony. sawyer's many pop culture references were a little over the top, plus he was just acting....different, cant put my finger on it. yea and when sawyer got the dart stuck in his foot, kate acted different and sounded different than normal. it really freaked me out! .

Well since the scene was apparrently added months after the original scenes...

I felt we had both a primary and a secondary story line. Hurley's character development showed him learning he could fight the curse that he believed had him in its grip. We saw him fighting the ennui and apathy that is gripping the majority of the Lostees and dragging some of them along on this lesson. He was learning you make your own luck. Meanwhile in the secondary story line we saw Kate, Sawyer and Charlie doing just that, making their own luck, good or bad.

Kate's behavior was a continuation of the multi episode captivity and escape story lines. It was in character. Kate has always been shown as wanting to take care of those she cares about. She did not just want to escape she wanted to take her friends/lovers with her. Her preparations to rescue Jack dovetailed nicely with the ongoing story lines of Danielle wanting to find Alex, Locke & Sayid wanting to find the Others and rescue Jack plus the You-make-your-own-luck lesson Hurley was both learning & teaching.

So we have character progress in Hurley et al and progress in the overall story line with multiple Lostees grouping together in preparation to finally take action instead of just lazing about on the beach.

Very nicely put, Fogey.

I don't know what to say, considering that it seems like Lost is never good enough for critics.

For me, the only one who was acting weird was maybe when Locke said that about not being motivated to find Jack. Like people have said previously, he's the most motivated guy on the island, so I found that line odd. Everyone else seemed to be acting like themselves just fine.

maybe my hearing is bad, but i'm hearing locke say

"it's not about motivation, it's about knowing where to look"

in response to kate accusing him and sayid of not being motivated enough.

that doesn't seem like he's admitting to not being motivated.

maybe my hearing is bad, but i'm hearing locke say

"it's not about motivation, it's about knowing where to look"

in response to kate accusing him and sayid of not being motivated enough.

that doesn't seem like he's admitting to not being motivated.

Yeah, your hearing is bad :) You're missing a line that indicated Locke's admitting Kate was right that they lacked motivation. Sayid: Kate! If you were looking for help to find Jack, why didn't you ask us?

Kate: 2 reasons. You don't know where to look and you're not motivated. And I don't blame you. Why would you want to go on another trek across the island, risk more lives, just to get Jack back.

Locke: You're wrong.

Kate: Oh, really? Then why didn't you come after...

Locke: Not about the motivation, just about knowing where to look. We got a compass bearing. And I'm pretty sure if we follow it...it'll lead us right to them.

Yeah, your hearing is bad :) You're missing a line that indicated Locke's admitting Kate was right that they lacked motivation.

hmm. now I really don't get it.

Well Locke isn't really Jack's biggest fan and he has been sorta off on his own for a while now. He was doing his own thing in the hatch and was more focused on what he was supposed to do to save his own faith than actually saving the world. He has never really headed up any rescue missions, he's gone on them though...hmmm maybe it's just weird. Or, maybe we are all missing something that Kate seems to know.

My thoughts are that Kate is an other and therefore her reaction to Sawyer and the dart was suppose to freak us out! We are suppose to notice those strange moments - those hidden clues -
Claiming they are not motivated to find Jack to push them to go after him - all part of her plan !