Hurley and Charlie did it! They got the van running...and even better...restored hope...

YAY!!!:biggrin:

The song (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shambala_%28song%29) that played in the van


Shambala (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shambhala) (mystical place)

In Tibetan Buddhist (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tibetan_Buddhism) tradition, Shambhala (also spelled Shambala or Shamballa) is a mystical kingdom hidden somewhere beyond the snowpeaks of the Himalayas (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Himalayas). It is mentioned in various ancient texts, including the Kalachakra Tantra (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kalachakra) and the ancient texts of the Zhang Zhung (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zhang_Zhung) culture which pre-dated Tibetan Buddhism in western Tibet (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tibet). The Bön (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B%C3%B6n) scriptures speak of a closely-related land called Olmolungring (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Olmolungring&action=edit).
.......
As with many concepts in the Kalachakra Tantra, the idea of Shambhala is said to have an "outer," "inner,' and "alternative" meaning. The outer meaning understands Shambhala to exist as a physical place, although only individuals with the appropriate karma (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karma) can reach it and experience it as such. As His Holiness the 14th Dalai Lama (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dalai_Lama) noted during the 1985 Kalachakra initiation in Bodhgaya, Shambhala is not an ordinary country: "Although those with special affiliation may actually be able to go there through their karmic connection, nevertheless it is not a physical place that we can actually find. We can only say that it is a pure land, a pure land in the human realm. And unless one has the merit and the actual karmic association, one cannot actually arrive there."

"I'm here to ride shotgun"

Yay Charlie!

Hey Tabby,

That's funny! You and I posted on Shambala at the same time. I wanted to know the meaning of the song, who sings it (I heard it growing up but I'm too young to remember).

Three Dog Night

it's the same song that was playing at the beginning with hurley and his dad fixing the car.

it's the same song that was playing at the beginning with hurley and his dad fixing the car.
Good ear, ms_mf!!! I didn't catch that...

I think we can safely say that Hurley is "special"...

In the FB, he seemed to be trying to will the Camaro to start...and on The Island, ditto with the van...and it worked!!!
100%
From my wiki link:
Although those with special affiliation may actually be able to go there through their karmic connection, nevertheless it is not a physical place that we can actually find. We can only say that it is a pure land, a pure land in the human realm. And unless one has the merit and the actual karmic association, one cannot actually arrive there.
Note the potential parallels to The Island....

I think we can safely say that Hurley is "special"...



Agreed!

This has been my favorite Three Dog Night song for years. You have NO IDEA how elated I was when it played on the show!

And then the composer worked it into the actual score! Brilliant all the way, and SO perfect for this moment. The song is hopeful and spiritual. Perfect. Made my eyes well up.

Agreed!
Gosh, he had me going (crying) when he was talking to Libby...

I am really intrigued with what the details on the mystical Shambhala might mean about what/where The Island is...how to get there...how to leave there...and IF anyone would ever want to leave.;) I kinda wanna be there.:redface:
100%
I'm going to have to...

watch that again! (and again and again...) ;)

I love Road to Shambala! I can play maybe 5 or 6 songs on the guitar from memory without looking at sheet music, and that is one of them. I taught it to myself back when I was about 13 years old, figuring out the chord tabs from my LP record, and I have played it ever since. I love singing the chorous at the top of my voice - it's such a POWERFUL SONG! If you really get into it and sing it like you're going to sing the roof off your house, it just picks you up and carries you to a beautiful place. No foolin!

:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

Al - le - luuuuuu - uuuuuu - uuuuuu - ya!
Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, Yeah!

Al - le - luuuuuu - uuuuuu - uuuuuu - ya!
Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, Yeah!

How does your light shine in the halls of Shambala?
How does your light shine in the halls of Shambala?
How does your light shine in the halls of Shambala?
Tell me - HOW - does your light shine in the halls of Shambala?

Also it is said that the army of Shambala will defeat and army of evil and usher in a golden age for the earth

Also it is said that the army of Shambala will defeat and army of evil and usher in a golden age for the earth
That's intriguing...tell us more, please.:)

Hurley and Charlie did it! They got the van running...and even better...restored hope...

YAY!!!:biggrin:

The song (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shambala_%28song%29) that played in the van


Shambala (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shambhala) (mystical place)

Three Dog Night

This has been my favorite Three Dog Night song for years. You have NO IDEA how elated I was when it played on the show!

And then the composer worked it into the actual score! Brilliant all the way, and SO perfect for this moment. The song is hopeful and spiritual. Perfect. Made my eyes well up.

I love Road to Shambala! I can play maybe 5 or 6 songs on the guitar from memory without looking at sheet music, and that is one of them. I taught it to myself back when I was about 13 years old, figuring out the chord tabs from my LP record, and I have played it ever since. I love singing the chorous at the top of my voice - it's such a POWERFUL SONG! If you really get into it and sing it like you're going to sing the roof off your house, it just picks you up and carries you to a beautiful place. No foolin!

:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

Al - le - luuuuuu - uuuuuu - uuuuuu - ya!
Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, Yeah!

Al - le - luuuuuu - uuuuuu - uuuuuu - ya!
Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, Yeah!

How does your light shine in the halls of Shambala? (clap clap)
How does your light shine in the halls of Shambala?(clap clap)
How does your light shine in the halls of Shambala?(clap clap)
Tell me - HOW - does your light shine in the halls of Shambala?


Such a great song!! Reminds me of Summer at the Beach!! (we always clapped twice after each of the chorus's lines :biggrin: )

This has been my favorite Three Dog Night song for years. You have NO IDEA how elated I was when it played on the show!

And then the composer worked it into the actual score! Brilliant all the way, and SO perfect for this moment. The song is hopeful and spiritual. Perfect. Made my eyes well up.

A great Three Dog Night song. Which made me think of another great Three Dog Night song which plays into another recurring theme in Lost. My personal favorite, Black and White.

They couldn't have picked a more fitting song for this joyride on a mystical island.

Wash away my troubles, wash away my pain - Charlie's fear of impending death

With the rain in Shambala - although it didn't rain, knowing this island, it will shortly.

Wash away my sorrow, = Hurley's sorrow w/o Libby

wash away my shame = Sawyer for leaving Jack behind

Everyone is lucky - even Hurley today!

Everyone is kind - even Sawyer

Perfect feel good song for the end of a long awaited feel good episode.

Great musical choice. It really captured the good feelings of tonights ep. Just loved seeing Hurley and Charley so happy. Good times!

Shambhala is ruled over by a Kulika KIng a benevolent monarch who upholds the intergrity of th Kalachakra tantra.Some religious scholars believe that this figure developed out of the myth of th Hindu conqueror Kalki,a similar personage.The Kalachakra prophesizes that when the world declines into war and greed,and is LOST,the twenty-fifth Kulika king will emerge from Shambhala with a huge army to vanquish the corrupt and usher in a worldwide goldenage.

And then the composer worked it into the actual score! Brilliant all the way, and SO perfect for this moment.

Yes, that was the best part of that scene. The fade out from the song in the van to the blending of the score while they were returning... amazing. Underrated skill.

Good ear, ms_mf!!! I didn't catch that...

I think we can safely say that Hurley is "special"...

In the FB, he seemed to be trying to will the Camaro to start...and on The Island, ditto with the van...and it worked!!!
100%
From my wiki link:

Note the potential parallels to The Island....

Edit to add the wiki quote:

Although those with special affiliation may actually be able to go there through their karmic connection, nevertheless it is not a physical place that we can actually find. We can only say that it is a pure land, a pure land in the human realm. And unless one has the merit and the actual karmic association, one cannot actually arrive there.
Hmm...the quote didn't pick up the wiki link to the karma reference. :frown: Anyway, not to take the thread offtopic, but I thought karma might have been in play with Sawyer tonight, also. Did anyone else think, when Kate was pulling the dart out of Sawyer's foot, "poison dart?" A lot of people were saying the frog he squished was a poison dart frog. Was this karma paying Sawyer back for squishing the frog? Then Hurley mentioned the beer might be poison. What is that supposed to mean? :eek2:

Shambhala is ruled over by a Kulika KIng a benevolent monarch who upholds the intergrity of th Kalachakra tantra.Some religious scholars believe that this figure developed out of the myth of th Hindu conqueror Kalki,a similar personage.The Kalachakra prophesizes that when the world declines into war and greed,and is LOST,the twenty-fifth Kulika king will emerge from Shambhala with a huge army to vanquish the corrupt and usher in a worldwide goldenage.
Who do think that king will be?

more from wiki.....

The lyrics refer to a situation where kindness and cooperation are universal, joy and good fortune abound, and psychological burdens are lifted

that bolded part totally relates to Hurley
maybe now he will feel 'the curse' is lifted?

The lyrics of "Road to Shambala", featured in tonight's epi twice...

"How does your light shine, in the halls of Shambala"

are very close to the reference to the light shining on Ekos stick..

So if John looks North will he find Shambala?

Yes, that was the best part of that scene. The fade out from the song in the van to the blending of the score while they were returning... amazing. Underrated skill.

That score was beautiful. I'm always so moved by the music in this show. It can literally make me cry within like three notes. But to take a fun, pop song and make it so beautiful and poignant. Loved it.

Very fascinating reading at Wikipedia. Wish I could stay up all night reading all this stuff!

The lyrics of "Road to Shambala", featured in tonight's epi twice...

"How does your light shine, in the halls of Shambala"

are very close to the reference to the light shining on Ekos stick..

So if John looks North will he find Shambala?

Or what the Others perceive to be Shambala.

"nevertheless it is not a physical place that we can actually find." Well some of us flower children from the 60s and 70s would beg to differ with that. :biggrin:

Well some of us flower children from the 60s and 70s would beg to differ with that. :biggrin:count me in there!

Get up and start dancing (http://www.just-oldies.com/1973/shambala.htm)

Dogs again.

more from wiki.....

The lyrics refer to a situation where kindness and cooperation are universal, joy and good fortune abound, and psychological burdens are lifted

that bolded part totally relates to Hurley
maybe now he will feel 'the curse' is lifted?
I totally agree, johnny. Since Hurley believes the curse is lifted, it is.

Make me wonder if the same will be true for Charlie.

Hurley and Charlie did it! They got the van running...and even better...restored hope...



That moment when Hurley popped the clutch and the 8 track popped on was amazing...it had me & my girlfriend cheering and pumping our fists in the air.

A very cool scene..... :)

That moment when Hurley popped the clutch and the 8 track popped on was amazing...it had me & my girlfriend cheering and pumping our fists in the air.

A very cool scene..... :)


The music, the scene, it was all perfect. A great feel good episode. :)

My only fear is that they lightened up the mood for some dark stuff to come.:eek2:

The music, the scene, it was all perfect. A great feel good episode. :)

My only fear is that they lightened up the mood for some dark stuff to come.:eek2:

Of course, it is always calm before the storm.

Great choice of song for this episode -- as good as Wonderwall was for FBYE (Charlie singing "maybe you're gonna be the one that saves me" to Des)

It wasn't my favorite Three Dog Night song but it was played everywhere at one point.

it's the same song that was playing at the beginning with hurley and his dad fixing the car. Good catch. That makes it a beautiful tie-in with Hurley's fb where he and his dad never could get that car started, and now on the island when he finally started a dead car (the VW), what should pop on but that song. Perfect. I hope that is symbolic of Hurley's curse being broken.

Get up and start dancing (http://www.just-oldies.com/1973/shambala.htm)

Dogs again.

Thanks so much for this! I love the song and I love how it was incorporated into the episode. :-D

Thanks so much for this! I love the song and I love how it was incorporated into the episode. :-D

I love sites like this, that just play music right away with the lyrics.

The music, the scene, it was all perfect. A great feel good episode. :)

My only fear is that they lightened up the mood for some dark stuff to come.:eek2:

Yep..........there could be some wicked stuff right around the bend.

It'll be interesting to see how Hurley reacts now.....how much did last night's episode change his belief in his dreaded curse!?!?

Bring on the next episode! :)

ame en peine wrote:
"Well some of us flower children from the 60's and 70's would beg to differ with that."

I don't mean to sound super-negative here, but the 60's and 70's weren't really all that they are cracked-up to be. I was in high school in the early 70's, and I ran around with my little group of friends in a V-dub van just the the one in this epi, and of course we had an 8-track stereo player, and played Three Dog Night tapes.

There were, of course, fun aspects to those days, but thoses who lived through them will also remember the drug-addiction, alcoholism, and promiscuity that went along with it. In looking back, we might be tempted to only remember the good stuff, and forget about the bad.

It was nice, though, to see the guys having some fun for a change, in this epi.

And it was of course in the 60's and 70's that syncretism began to take hold of the masses, and music was a common mode of transmission for syncretism. Oh well.

Great song and a great hint of things to come. For me, "Road to Shambhala" + a mysterious new road map + a working car = a fast back door to Otherville to rescue Jack.

There were, of course, fun aspects to those days, but thoses who lived through them will also remember the drug-addiction, alcoholism, and promiscuity that went along with it. In looking back, we might be tempted to only remember the good stuff, and forget about the bad.


To balance out the scale, don't forget about the fact that our government was sending conscripted troops off to Vietnam, that people were not allowed to be true to their inner selves (as per the movie "Pleasantville (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0120789/)"), that women were finally finding their voice and demanding to be treated without discrimination, and that they killed JFK, Bobby, Malcolm X, and Martin Luther King. The '60s and early '70s was not all just about excess, in fact that was only a very minor part of it. What it mostly was about was a social revolution that just about ripped America apart. I agree that it was not all fun and games, but it also was not all just about being stoned and getting layed either.

They couldn't have picked a more fitting song for this joyride on a mystical island.

Wash away my troubles, wash away my pain - Charlie's fear of impending death

With the rain in Shambala - although it didn't rain, knowing this island, it will shortly.

Wash away my sorrow, = Hurley's sorrow w/o Libby

wash away my shame = Sawyer for leaving Jack behind

Everyone is lucky - even Hurley today!

Everyone is kind - even Sawyer

Perfect feel good song for the end of a long awaited feel good episode.


I LOVED THAT SONG!!! I was laying down on my couch in my living room, when that song came on. I sat up with a big smile on my face. Gosh, that song is from the summer of 1973 (I was going into the sixth grade, kinda dating myself here). Ah, yes, Shambala....

From what you all researched it sounds like Shangri-la, hidden in the Himalayas as well.

ame en peine wrote:
"Well some of us flower children from the 60's and 70's would beg to differ with that."

I don't mean to sound super-negative here, but the 60's and 70's weren't really all that they are cracked-up to be. I was in high school in the early 70's, and I ran around with my little group of friends in a V-dub van just the the one in this epi, and of course we had an 8-track stereo player, and played Three Dog Night tapes.

There were, of course, fun aspects to those days, but thoses who lived through them will also remember the drug-addiction, alcoholism, and promiscuity that went along with it. In looking back, we might be tempted to only remember the good stuff, and forget about the bad.

It was nice, though, to see the guys having some fun for a change, in this epi.

And it was of course in the 60's and 70's that syncretism began to take hold of the masses, and music was a common mode of transmission for syncretism. Oh well.

Actually it was I who wrote that and ame was just agreeing. And it was totally meant tongue-in-cheek, as ame picked up on. I'm well aware of the history of those decades, as I was in H.S. in the 60s and college in the 70s, plus I sadly lost several good friends, including a boyfriend and my sister's fiance, in the Vietnam war. Still, life was not too bad in my little corner of So.Ca. so I can still find joy in my memories. I sincerely wish you could do the same. :kiss:

Btw, did you hear the "bong" sound at the end of the epi? That always seems to portend some serious stuff lies ahead. Can't wait!

Loved that song- so uplifting, hopeful, and fun. Perfect way to end that scene! Very interesting to read about the origins of Shambhala being a mystical place...

To balance out the scale, don't forget about the fact that our government was sending conscripted troops off to Vietnam, that people were not allowed to be true to their inner selves (as per the movie "Pleasantville (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0120789/)"), that women were finally finding their voice and demanding to be treated without discrimination, and that they killed JFK, Bobby, Malcolm X, and Martin Luther King. The '60s and early '70s was not all just about excess, in fact that was only a very minor part of it. What it mostly was about was a social revolution that just about ripped America apart. I agree that it was not all fun and games, but it also was not all just about being stoned and getting layed either.

I've not used this quote mode before, so I hope that it works!
Yes, I agree that the 60's and 70's were not all about excess. But when part of the population is too immersed in self-gratification, as was the case (at least in part) during that era, then they're not going to be paying much attention to what is being fobbed off on them as "progress," in the spirit of "revolution."

It's also true that young men who were sent off to Vietnam weren't allowed to be true to their inner selves, as you mentioned; but that's always been the case in all wars. **MOD edited**

There's more than one way to look at that strange era known as the 60's and 70's. Except that the spirit of revolution only allows for one point of view...the view that revolution, in and of itself, is all that matters.

Saukkomies wrote: ...that people were not allowed to be true to their inner selves (as per the movie " Pleasantville (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0120789/)")...


It's also true that young men who were sent off to Vietnam weren't allowed to be true to their inner selves, as you mentioned; but that's always been the case in all wars. **MOD edited**.

There's more than one way to look at that strange era known as the 60's and 70's. Except that the spirit of revolution only allows for one point of view...the view that revolution, in and of itself, is all that matters.


Actually, what I said was that people in general were not allowed to be true to their inner self (see above). I used the movie Pleasantville as an example of what I meant by that. If you have never seen that movie, I highly recommend it. What it shows is that although things might have seemed all bright and rosy during the 1950s and early 60s, they actually were not. And the social revolution that ripped through America was directly due to the fact that people were not permitted to behave like real human beings, but instead were being forced by societal pressure to conform to narrowly defined roles dictated to them.

The 1960s and 70s were not about just a bunch of wild kids who decided they wanted to get drunk, stoned, laid, and listen to loud music. There was a lot more to it than that - a lot more.

Actually, what I said was that people in general were not allowed to be true to their inner self (see above). I used the movie Pleasantville as an example of what I meant by that. If you have never seen that movie, I highly recommend it. What it shows is that although things might have seemed all bright and rosy during the 1950s and early 60s, they actually were not. And the social revolution that ripped through America was directly due to the fact that people were not permitted to behave like real human beings, but instead were being forced by societal pressure to conform to narrowly defined roles dictated to them.

The 1960s and 70s were not about just a bunch of wild kids who decided they wanted to get drunk, stoned, laid, and listen to loud music. There was a lot more to it than that - a lot more.

I haven't seen the movie, but thanks for recommending it. Actually, I try not to base my views and beliefs (regarding society at large) on films, since they are one person's subjective opinion. I study a wide variety of sources, but mostly, when judging what the 50's (and 40's and 30's) were like, I use what my many family members have told me about their experiences (since I love history), which are more real than a fictional story.

I don't believe that the 50's were rosy; it certainly wasn't for my family. Do you really believe that we are no longer forced by societal pressure to conform to narrowly defined roles dictated to us? The roles may have changed, but they are still narrowly defined, but in the opposite direction.

I haven't seen the movie, but thanks for recommending it. Actually, I try not to base my views and beliefs (regarding society at large) on films, since they are one person's subjective opinion. I study a wide variety of sources, but mostly, when judging what the 50's (and 40's and 30's) were like, I use what my many family members have told me about their experiences (since I love history), which are more real than a fictional story.

Yeah, I agree. Wide variety of sources is a good way to get a better grasp on things. That's cool you love history - so do I coincidently ;) At any rate, I think that "Pleasantville" presents this whole subject in a very good way. It's worth seeing regardless (okay, I happen to be a big fan of Tobey Maquire's, and would recommend any of his movies).

I don't believe that the 50's were rosy; it certainly wasn't for my family. Do you really believe that we are no longer forced by societal pressure to conform to narrowly defined roles dictated to us? The roles may have changed, but they are still narrowly defined, but in the opposite direction.

Think about it. In the 1950s and early 60s women were only allowed to work in certain jobs outside the home such as secretaries, nurses, or teachers. And it was better if they didn't have a job to begin with. Women went to college in order to learn how to be good mothers and wives. Blacks and other minority groups were nonexistent if you go by what the media portrayed on movies and tv. Or if they did exist, they were stereotyped into very restrictive roles. Men too were forced into confined roles. They couldn't wear long hair, and if they were so avant garde as to have facial hair, it had to be immaculately groomed into one of three specific styles.

If you truly believe that society today is as restrictive as it was back before the social turmoil of the late 60s and early 70s changed things, then I really think you should reconsider this notion. I lived through it - and I can tell you that I am very glad to be on this side of things rather than back then. Anyone who tells you that the 1950s were the golden age of America must be a white person who had no social conscience. It sucked back then, much more than it does today. And the reason it doesn't suck so much today is largely due to the social revolution that swept through the country in the late 60s and early 70s. It wasn't necessarily pretty, but no revolution is...

Still, there were some absolutely great stuff that happened back then, and some of that was the fantastic musical explosion that took place in America during that time. And that is really what some of the posts to this thread have been talking about - how wonderful it is sometimes to hear a song from that time.

I haven't seen the movie, but thanks for recommending it. Actually, I try not to base my views and beliefs (regarding society at large) on films, since they are one person's subjective opinion. I study a wide variety of sources, but mostly, when judging what the 50's (and 40's and 30's) were like, I use what my many family members have told me about their experiences (since I love history), which are more real than a fictional story.

I don't believe that the 50's were rosy; it certainly wasn't for my family. Do you really believe that we are no longer forced by societal pressure to conform to narrowly defined roles dictated to us? The roles may have changed, but they are still narrowly defined, but in the opposite direction.

The reason you can watch so many different movies with so many varied viewpoints is because of the movements of the 60s and 70s. Before that, entertainment was carefully scrutinzied by the government. So, I laugh when a filmmaker, entertainer, or network screams unfair censorship when a rating is placed on their work based on violence, sexual content/activity, illegal activities, including illegal drugs and underage drinking, and language. The ratings are guidelines that help parents or adults like me who don't like to see or hear some things on television or in movies.

Sure, we still have defined roles, but not nearly as restricted as even 20 years ago. I was born in 1953. The world is almost entirely different than when i was a child, as it was for my parents, and for my grandparents (my grandmother was 10 years old when the first car was built in France and a teenager when Ford started rolling out his assembly line cars). It'll be almost entirely different in another 50 years, too. Hopefully, for the better.

Anyway - on topic. The Road to Shambala was an interesting music choice for both the show and for Roger to be listening to at the time of his death. If Roger work man was making a beer run and there was a road being built, was Dharma building a road to their "Shambala?" Kind of makes it seem like Dharma had an idealistic spiritual goal, at least at one time.

But - why didn't anyone come looking for Roger?

If Roger work man was making a beer run and there was a road being built, was Dharma building a road to their "Shambala?" Kind of makes it seem like Dharma had an idealistic spiritual goal, at least at one time.

But - why didn't anyone come looking for Roger?
That kinda struck me too! If these DHARMA folk are all "peace & love" and building a wonderful new society, why did they leave Roger to decompose in the jungle??? :frown:

Originally Posted by lostie1 http://thefuselage.com/Threaded/images/FuselageGreen/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?p=1408410#post1408410)
If Roger work man was making a beer run and there was a road being built, was Dharma building a road to their "Shambala?" Kind of makes it seem like Dharma had an idealistic spiritual goal, at least at one time.

But - why didn't anyone come looking for Roger?


That kinda struck me too! If these DHARMA folk are all "peace & love" and building a wonderful new society, why did they leave Roger to decompose in the jungle??? :frown:

Well, what pops into mind is that perhaps his beer run was interrupted by that "Accident" that the Dharma people keep refering to. Maybe nobody came looking for him because the whole place was going nuts and folks were dissappearing right and left... I mean, we really don't know for sure what happened, do we?

Anyway - on topic. The Road to Shambala was an interesting music choice for both the show and for Roger to be listening to at the time of his death. If Roger work man was making a beer run and there was a road being built, was Dharma building a road to their "Shambala?" Kind of makes it seem like Dharma had an idealistic spiritual goal, at least at one time.

But - why didn't anyone come looking for Roger?

My thoughts too...and it's interesting that we have The Road to Shambala (great song!) & a map with a road of some sort. Even thought my first hunch of the map wasn't a road. The Map in the Van thread, if your all interested, has some good caps and discussion in it

Great, so Shambala goes on the ever-growing list of red herrings. :)

Yeah, I agree. Wide variety of sources is a good way to get a better grasp on things. That's cool you love history - so do I coincidently ;) At any rate, I think that "Pleasantville" presents this whole subject in a very good way. It's worth seeing regardless (okay, I happen to be a big fan of Tobey Maquire's, and would recommend any of his movies).



Think about it. In the 1950s and early 60s women were only allowed to work in certain jobs outside the home such as secretaries, nurses, or teachers. And it was better if they didn't have a job to begin with. Women went to college in order to learn how to be good mothers and wives. Blacks and other minority groups were nonexistent if you go by what the media portrayed on movies and tv. Or if they did exist, they were stereotyped into very restrictive roles. Men too were forced into confined roles. They couldn't wear long hair, and if they were so avant garde as to have facial hair, it had to be immaculately groomed into one of three specific styles.

If you truly believe that society today is as restrictive as it was back before the social turmoil of the late 60s and early 70s changed things, then I really think you should reconsider this notion. I lived through it - and I can tell you that I am very glad to be on this side of things rather than back then. Anyone who tells you that the 1950s were the golden age of America must be a white person who had no social conscience. It sucked back then, much more than it does today. And the reason it doesn't suck so much today is largely due to the social revolution that swept through the country in the late 60s and early 70s. It wasn't necessarily pretty, but no revolution is...

Still, there were some absolutely great stuff that happened back then, and some of that was the fantastic musical explosion that took place in America during that time. And that is really what some of the posts to this thread have been talking about - how wonderful it is sometimes to hear a song from that time.

You mention that it was better if women didn't have a job to begin with. Well, this was mostly because of a woman's children. Is it really better to have stangers raise a child in daycares, rather than to have a mother stay at home? My mother worked full-time when I was growing up in the 60's. Back then, a family could get by on one income, but now, both parents have to work to pay their mortgages, which can be very stressful and contributes to the high divorce rate.

You believe that women have more choices now, but actually, women only really have a choice as to what career they will have. What if a woman just wants to stay home and raise her children? They get a lot of flack from their families, and society at large. That isn't freedom.

You also mentioned that Blacks were stereotyped, but that is still the case. I was raised in poor, Black neighborhoods in California (though I'm White) and my Black friends were far nicer, had better manners, and had more respect for themselves and for others than my White friends did. You don't see that portrayed very often on TV, because it wouldn't lend itself to the false spirit of "revolution."

You mention that it was better if women didn't have a job to begin with. Well, this was mostly because of a woman's children. Is it really better to have stangers raise a child in daycares, rather than to have a mother stay at home? My mother worked full-time when I was growing up in the 60's. Back then, a family could get by on one income, but now, both parents have to work to pay their mortgages, which can be very stressful and contributes to the high divorce rate.

You believe that women have more choices now, but actually, women only really have a choice as to what career they will have. What if a woman just wants to stay home and raise her children? They get a lot of flack from their families, and society at large. That isn't freedom.

You also mentioned that Blacks were stereotyped, but that is still the case. I was raised in poor, Black neighborhoods in California (though I'm White) and my Black friends were far nicer, had better manners, and had more respect for themselves and for others than my White friends did. You don't see that portrayed very often on TV, because it wouldn't lend itself to the false spirit of "revolution."

Whoa. Well, at least you're letting your colors show. Okay, so if you want to pretend that Blacks and women had it better in the 50s, go right ahead and do so, I won't stop you. Sheesh. :ohwell:

The reason you can watch so many different movies with so many varied viewpoints is because of the movements of the 60s and 70s. Before that, entertainment was carefully scrutinzied by the government. So, I laugh when a filmmaker, entertainer, or network screams unfair censorship when a rating is placed on their work based on violence, sexual content/activity, illegal activities, including illegal drugs and underage drinking, and language. The ratings are guidelines that help parents or adults like me who don't like to see or hear some things on television or in movies.

Sure, we still have defined roles, but not nearly as restricted as even 20 years ago. I was born in 1953. The world is almost entirely different than when i was a child, as it was for my parents, and for my grandparents (my grandmother was 10 years old when the first car was built in France and a teenager when Ford started rolling out his assembly line cars). It'll be almost entirely different in another 50 years, too. Hopefully, for the better.

Anyway - on topic. The Road to Shambala was an interesting music choice for both the show and for Roger to be listening to at the time of his death. If Roger work man was making a beer run and there was a road being built, was Dharma building a road to their "Shambala?" Kind of makes it seem like Dharma had an idealistic spiritual goal, at least at one time.

But - why didn't anyone come looking for Roger?

You're right that the ratings are guidelines for viewers who don't like to hear or see some things, but when is the last time that you saw a G or PG rated film? Heck, my grown sons assume that a film is lame if it isn't rated R, and they tease me (in a nice way) for being such a prude, but that's ok; we laugh about it.

You mentioned that it will be almost entirely different in 50 years; hopefully for the better, but I don't think it'll be better. Is it better, now, than 50 years ago in terms of, say, crime rates? We don't have enough jails in this country to house all of the criminals properly, and when my parents were growing up in the 40's, they never had to lock thier doors at night. Nowadays, who doesn't lock their doors at night?

Sorry to take this thread a bit off-topic. Yeah, why didn't anyone come looking for Roger? I feel kind of sorry for the guy.
100%
Whoa. Well, at least you're letting your colors show. Okay, so if you want to pretend that Blacks and women had it better in the 50s, go right ahead and do so, I won't stop you. Sheesh. :ohwell:

How many Black friends did you have whan growing up?
100%
Whoa. Well, at least you're letting your colors show. Okay, so if you want to pretend that Blacks and women had it better in the 50s, go right ahead and do so, I won't stop you. Sheesh. :ohwell:

I never said that Blacks and women had it better in the 50's. You're misconstruing my words.

How many Black friends did you have whan growing up?

This is my last post on this subject, as I'm not in any way going to contribute to a discussion that is going nowhere. I don't think you are of a mind to change your opinions, and this is not the forum to have this discussion to begin with.

But for the record, I grew up as a military brat, and had plenty of friends who were not only Black, but from pretty much all ethnic backgrounds. The big difference was that their dads were in the military, which meant that they weren't living in ghettos but on military bases. I'd really like to see you try to pull off this theory of yours that Blacks were better off before the Civil Rights movement - with someone who is Black. Ha. Good luck on that... It's just like some historical revisionists who say that Southern Blacks would have been better off if the South would have won the Civil War.

This is my last post on this subject, as I'm not in any way going to contribute to a discussion that is going nowhere. I don't think you are of a mind to change your opinions, and this is not the forum to have this discussion to begin with.

But for the record, I grew up as a military brat, and had plenty of friends who were not only Black, but from pretty much all ethnic backgrounds. The big difference was that their dads were in the military, which meant that they weren't living in ghettos but on military bases. I'd really like to see you try to pull off this theory of yours that Blacks were better off before the Civil Rights movement - with someone who is Black. Ha. Good luck on that... It's just like some historical revisionists who say that Southern Blacks would have been better off if the South would have won the Civil War.

Like I said, I never said or inferred that Blacks were better off before the Civil Rights movement. You're reacting emotionally, and not really thinking about what I wrote. I don't agree with the revisionists of the South. You've been brainwashed into believing that anyone who doesn't tow the standard beliefs is somehow racist, which isn't true. I look at both sides of every issue. If a person gains just about their entire worldview based on what they see in TV and movies, then they'll only see one side of the picture.

But with change sometimes comes ramifications that aren't always dealt with properly.

We know that Dharma had very lofty intentions of saving the world, the others now seem to be trying to create a Utopia on the island too, the Island forces seem to be really benevolent in giving people what they need to resolve their torment or grief, or even to survive. Id say that yes there is indeed a selection process going on and only the worthy are going to be able to go to whatever kind Shambala is waiting!

I would LOVE to see in a future episode explaining the Incident, the last minuts of Roger Workman's life, driving too fast along a dirt road on a secret beer run, blasting Shambala on his 8-track drinking a can of Dharma beer as the sky turns purple and his van goes off the road.

I loved the tape deck coming to life. I was expecting Hurley to get the engine going but I wasn't expecting the song. Do you know what would have been really creepy? If it had started playing 'Make your own kind of music'...

OR even creepier if it had started blarring out 'You all Everybody!'

My thoughts too...and it's interesting that we have The Road to Shambala (great song!) & a map with a road of some sort. Even thought my first hunch of the map wasn't a road. The Map in the Van thread, if your all interested, has some good caps and discussion in it

Bingo--and as Lostie1 said as well

Also, this sambala song has nothing to do with Shambhala--so lest just stop that

As always with Lost--lots of depth here

The song connects Hurely at the beginning as a child, Him now, and also the guy driving the van on a road that was never built----Rogers luck ran out--but hurley finished the trip down the switchback road. Thats why hurley kept sticking up for Roger--saying he had a father and mother--just as hurlys flashback had his parents in it. Hurley idenified with the man who never finished his trip --like Hurleys trip to the Grand Canyon--which was fulfilled as he went down the huge valley(canyon) on the island in the car(Van) that wouldnt start.

I dont think many people watching lost never see this depth..because they are too focused on stuff that doesnt even matter.

Also, this sambala song has nothing to do with Shambhala--so lest just stop that

...snip...

I dont think many people watching lost never see this depth..because they are too focused on stuff that doesnt even matter.

But it DOES have to do with Shambala! Part of the "depth" that you're talking about is recognizing that Hurley and Charlie were on the road to Shambala as they were riding that van down the mountain slope. Be careful about casting judgement, friend. :)

I loved the tape deck coming to life. I was expecting Hurley to get the engine going but I wasn't expecting the song. Do you know what would have been really creepy? If it had started playing 'Make your own kind of music'...

OR even creepier if it had started blarring out 'You all Everybody!'

Or better yet another 3DN song - Momma Told Me (Not To Come) :biggrin:

Want some whiskey in your water?
Sugar in your tea?
What's all these crazy questions you're askin' me?
This is the craziest party that could ever be
Don't turn on the lights `cause I don't wanna see

Mama told me not to come
Mama told me not to come
That ain't no way to have fun, son!

(yes, I confess, I still have my 3DN LPs)

But it DOES have to do with Shambala! Part of the "depth" that you're talking about is recognizing that Hurley and Charlie were on the road to Shambala as they were riding that van down the mountain slope. Be careful about casting judgement, friend. :)

You misunderstood me. look at my spelling of Shambhala ...people were connecting the song to the place in the Poem and coming up with all sorts of budda theories.

Of course the song fits the situation. I wasnt talking about the song. I was talking about Shambhala. But in usual lost forum mania :biggrin: people go off with huge theories about nothing--when the plain meaning is quite simple as I explained. To say Shambhala(notice spelling) nowwill be found is not neccessary because the plain meaning of the story was not about Shambhala.

Be careful about casting judgement, friend...just kidding. I dont blame you--perhaps you didnt read the theories people were coming up with in this and other forums.

You misunderstood me. look at my spelling of Shambhala ...people were connecting the song to the place in the Poem and coming up with all sorts of budda theories.

Of course the song fits the situation. I wasnt talking about the song. I was talking about Shambhala. But in usual lost forum mania :biggrin: people go off with huge theories about nothing--when the plain meaning is quite simple as I explained. To say Shambhala(notice spelling) nowwill be found is not neccessary because the plain meaning of the story was not about Shambhala.

Be careful about casting judgement, friend...just kidding. I dont blame you--perhaps you didnt read the theories people were coming up with in this and other forums.

Sorry. It appears we are actually both of the same mind here! And yes, I too sometimes find that a lot of unnecessary analysis goes on within the Lost fan community, and that perhaps maybe I ought to be the first to follow my own advice about not judging... :redface:

A great Three Dog Night song. Which made me think of another great Three Dog Night song which plays into another recurring theme in Lost. My personal favorite, Black and White.

I put on my Best of Three Dog Night and Black and White is playing now. Very cool. :biggrin:

Or what the Others perceive to be Shambala.

"nevertheless it is not a physical place that we can actually find." Well some of us flower children from the 60s and 70s would beg to differ with that. :biggrin:

I have my Brother's pix from those days..alota stamp lickin' goin' on.

Get up and start dancing (http://www.just-oldies.com/1973/shambala.htm)

Dogs again.

Wow. I'm ashamed to admit that I've been singing that song wrong my whole life! I had no idea that's what they were saying!:redface:

.

But in usual lost forum mania :biggrin: people go off with huge theories about nothing--.

You seem to enjoy bashing people for having theories that are in conflict with what you deem worthy discussion.

This is a fan board...this is for people to speculate on anything they want to speculate on without people telling them what they want to talk about is nothing.

If you feel it to be nothing..move on and spare us your judgement.

This episode was SO phenomenal...

I love how it opened with "the song" blaring...young Hurley...and then, in the magic moment when "current" Hurley popped the van's clutch...the same song blasted loudly.

I am sure that the song was chosen for more than one reason. If one of those was to let the nostalgic reminisce, and another reason was to let imaginative fans theorize and read between the lines...cool. :cool:

Even the song's lyrics are appropos to LOST...sigh...LOST.:8:

I thought that in addition to the other symbolism of the van scene, it was especially compelling how Hurley sat parked in the van, alone, as S/J/C returned to the beach (where did Vincent go?). Hurley was sad, probably thinking about his dad, the missed Grand Canyon road trip, the missing 17 years, and wondering if he made the right decision to go to Australia. And he was regretting that Libby wasn't there to share the joyride and breakthrough.

But, good news...Hurley "moved on"...and resumed "carrying on", living...having fun, driving around...hopefully until the van ran out of gas. They didn't show it, but I hope that Vincent rode shotgun. Too bad they didn't show Vincent leaning out the window with his ears blowing back, tongue hanging out (but I know that he was!).

Michael Giacchino (and the wonderful full LOST orchestra) repeated the song's theme for the very sweet montage...wow. :8:

Oh, btw, this smilie :8: is #8. ;)

They didn't show it, but I hope that Vincent rode shotgun. Too bad they didn't show Vincent leaning out the window with his ears blowing back, tongue hanging out (but I know that he was!).


I loved your letter, Tabby! I think you're right, that the song really defined the whole episode in many ways, and was perfect for how they incorporated it in the different places they did in the epi. I also enjoyed seeing in my mind your description of Vincent hanging his head out the window of the van. Perhaps that is why he showed Hurley the van in the first place - he just wanted to take a joy ride. :p

I loved your letter, Tabby! I think you're right, that the song really defined the whole episode in many ways, and was perfect for how they incorporated it in the different places they did in the epi. I also enjoyed seeing in my mind your description of Vincent hanging his head out the window of the van. Perhaps that is why he showed Hurley the van in the first place - he just wanted to take a joy ride. :p
Thanks, Sauk! (pardon the abbreviation)

OMGosh, that is SO perceptive of you...Vincent wanted to go for a ride!:biggrin: All dog lovers know that they love to ride. And he not only led Hurley to the van, but brought him the key...:biggrin:

Thanks for that thought!

The Shambhala song is still in my head...and I love it!

The song gave a bright and happy feeling to the episode. It made us smile.

Unfortunately, whenever we had an episode that made us smile, an episode that made us cry was right around the corner :frown:

Shambhala is ruled over by a Kulika KIng a benevolent monarch who upholds the intergrity of th Kalachakra tantra.Some religious scholars believe that this figure developed out of the myth of th Hindu conqueror Kalki,a similar personage.The Kalachakra prophesizes that when the world declines into war and greed,and is LOST,the twenty-fifth Kulika king will emerge from Shambhala with a huge army to vanquish the corrupt and usher in a worldwide goldenage.

"At home I'm known as a warrior myself."

Where is his *true* home?

ETA: There's a thread on the insignia on Hurley's yellow button-down shirt; apparently it's a clothing logo from "Big Daddy" clothes, and its symbol is a crown. Interestingly, Reyes means "king..."

Here's another cool Shambhala (http://www.crystalinks.com/shambhala.html) link, with much information. Just thought I'd quote this interesting item:

The myths of Shambhala were part of the inspiration for the tale of Shangri-La told in the popular book Lost Horizon

And this one is funny to me, considering all the beautiful LOST actors and actresses.

War and injustice are said to be unknown there, and it is said to be peopled by beautiful women and men dwelling in magnificent abodes.


ETA More from that site:
The Black Stone (http://www.crystalinks.com/blackstone03.html)


Nicholas Roerich was a poet, artist and eminent man of learning who had emigrated from White Russia and settled in Paris. He was regarded as one of the most distinguished of the Theosophical elite of the period. Apart from searching for the home of the Mahatmas, the purpose of his scientific expedition across Tibet and Xinjiang to Altai (1923-26) was never made entirely clear in his diary, but appears to have been related to the return of a certain sacred stone to its rightful home in the King's Tower in the center of Shambhala. (http://www.crystalinks.com/shambala.html)


The stone was said to be part of a much larger meterorite possessed of occult properties called the Chintamani Stone, which was capable of giving telepathic inner guidance and effecting a transformation of consciousness to those in contact with it. The black stone of the Ka'aba at Mecca and that of the ancient shrine of Cybele, the Goddess-Mother of the Near East, are both believed by some occultists to be pieces of this magical meterorite, which is alleged to have come from a solar system in the constellation of Orion, probably Sirius [part of Canis Major]. The Orion (http://www.crystalinks.com/orion.html) constellation, we may note, is a recurring motif in the Shambhalic story.

According to lamaist lore, a fragment of the Chintamani Stone from what is probably the star Sirius [there seem to be actually three of them] is sent wherever a spiritual mission vital to humanity is set up, and is returned when that mission is completed. Such a stone was said to be in the possession of the failed League of Nations, its return being entrusted to Roerich."

agartha and the city of shambhala......the lost island is located in the hollow earth......that would be cool..........:biggrin:

Who do think that king will be?

Don't laugh ... I think that would be Hurley. Or at least it should be ... :hypocrit:

From a PBS website about a show (http://www.pbs.org/mythsandheroes/myths_four_shangrila.html) on Shambala: (I thought this really related to The Island):

... the tale seems to have been recorded first in India in AD 962. The tale is that there is a land behind the Himalayas full of peace and harmony where an isolated people live in accordance with Buddhist precepts preparing for the day when the world will be ready to live in peace. The kingdom is in the shadow of a white crystal mountain, approachable only through a ring of peaks. Next to the mountain are a lake and a palace. Here the wisdom of humanity is conserved, ready to save the world when needed.
(snip)
Today, Shangri-La is seen both as a place, and as an era of enlightened consciousness. The Tibetans say that the need to find paradise elsewhere is it what keeps us from having it. .. In Season 1 there were two main focuses - survival and escape / rescue. But now (I hope) something new will be forged out of the seemingly "boring," "faceless" people of the beach camp. Perhaps finding Shambala *where you are* is the "lesson" The Island has to teach. Perhaps these other groups - The Others, the Dharma scientists, perhaps more than that, have had such problems because they weren't paying attention - aren't paying attention - to what the Island is trying to "say."

I hope this isn't OT (because it occurred in Event 77, not TTID), but when Sawyer came back to the beach camp demanding "his stuff," Paolo said to him, "We share now." From reading here, it seems that a lot of people don't like Nikki and Paolo, aren't sure why they're included, etc. Maybe what Paolo said *is* why he and Nikki are important. Because what he said certainly was.

So not only has the beach camp not disintegrated into anarchy or catastrophe with the absence of Sawyer, Kate, and Jack - but they seem to have worked many things out equitably among themselves (the food is being distributed fairly; Sun and Jin are cooking with the others, not totally isolated, for instance.)

I am hoping that as the beach camp story arc continues, that we will see Hurley come more into his own in a leadership role - not through the rule of science or knowledge (Jack) or by bullying and raw exercise of power (Sawyer), but by generosity, gentle humor, ... love. (Another way to say it might be Zechariah. 4:6 - "Not by might or power, but by the spirit of God.")