The Map in the Van . . . [Archive] - { Flicks N Shows | Fringe Division

BrandonHasTheKeys

03-01-2007, 03:31 AM

Actually another strange thing about the van, why did no one from Dharma bother to find the van and recover the body. They must have noticed Roger was missing and if they followed his route (perhaps via the map) they could have indentified an area where it looked like a van tumbling over had disturbed the foliage. Unless the van tumbled over due to the incident!

pen, I was wondering about this as well. If your last conjecture is true then the incident must have killed off all the Dharmies on the island (or at least forced them to leave suddenly) since nobody came to recover poor Roger's body.

Similarly, if the Dharma folks were on the island at the time of the Nigerian plane crash, it seems strange they did not investigate it, recover the gun (and maybe even the heroin) and bury the bodies of Yemi and gold-tooth man. Unless they only bury their own. :undecide:

Has anyone established when the incident happened? It was sometime prior to 1980, because it was mentioned in the orientation film. If the incident caused Roger to crash and depopulated the island, why did the Dharmies return, continue their experiments in the Swan and Pearl stations, and never bother to recover Roger's body? As you and others have written, Roger must have been on or near a road at the time of his demise, and it would have been fairly easy to locate him.

Pisaster

03-01-2007, 03:33 AM

A few things we are noting while looking at that excellent screen cap (thanks to the guy who posted it).

1. Is the "C" next to the Swan actually a "?" ?

2. What is the large rectangle above the Swan? Notes like on a blueprint? A structure?

3. It definitely looks to us like the road is coming up a hill or down a valley.

4. The 45 290W is not a longitude. Perhaps a distance and bearing (like 45 meters at 290 west)? Magnetic declination (the amount you need to adjust your compass--my hubby is a paleomagnetist...)?

Good night and good luck!

sledgeweb

03-01-2007, 04:53 AM

Here is a full size HD map: http://lost.cubit.net/pics/3x10/dharmaRoadMap_Full.jpg

And yes, you did see a Swan Station logo on the map - appears to be the Swan Station in the lower right corner.

Dublin Dilettante

03-01-2007, 05:16 AM

Any guess what the C in the circle to the left of the Swan station means?

I presume it denotes what that symbol usually denotes; copyright. Interesting if that was deemed necessary...

sheba

03-01-2007, 05:20 AM

My guess would be that "C" stands for Cerberus. Like the "CV"s Cerberus Vent (per the Lost puzzles code) on the hatch door map

Finnster

03-01-2007, 08:04 AM

I was thinking center of elevation. I have seen a topography map or two that have something like that on the center point of highest elevation. ( that's a rare occurence, but the "c" on the map is definately in the center of one of the elevation circles. )

Or....and this is a wild thought, the map is a representation of magnetic influence from the geo-magnetic anomaly from the Swan. The "road" is actually the strongest line of magnetic force emanating from the station and trhe "C" is the center of the anomaly. Look at the pattern the "elevation" lines and the "road" create. Just a thought to get everyone thinking....

The other numbers 3480 and 3458 are possible foootage marks for elevation. If this is a "road map" why draw the inner workings of the Swan Station on the map itself? Why not just use the logo to denote station location?

I don't think this was a road map. I think it's a map of the start of the underground tunnelling system. Possibly the tubes that we saw from the Pearl.

wanders01

03-01-2007, 08:28 AM

aurorawest

03-01-2007, 08:41 AM

Could it be that they used these switchbacks to down that hill Hurley drove down?

That was my assumption.

Regarding why the van was turned over seemingly in the middle of nowhere -- if it was a dirt road they were making, then I would think that twenty to thirty years would be enough on that island for vegetation to destroy most traces of it. I'm sure if they were really looking, they could find something (too bad there weren't any archaeologists on the plane), but it seems reasonable to me that it would be well hidden.

The only thing that I found a little strange was the fact that the van wasn't more rusty. I mean, a couple decades in the humidity and rain? But I can excuse that. They wouldn't have had an episode if the van was a rusted out wreck.

South Shore

03-01-2007, 09:59 AM

I didn't sleep well last night, thinking about this map. I do wonder if Roger was surveying the road, and was also on a beer run. How did the van end up on its side. Considering he was really close to the hill that Hurley eventually popped the clutch on the VW, maybe he was driving on what was a crude run of the road, and the van veered off of a higher switchback? I'd like to see the location of the VW from above.

campstumblemuch

03-01-2007, 10:27 AM

Maybe it's not a road.

Maybe it's an underground river?

FREDTAYLOR

03-01-2007, 10:30 AM

The switchbacks are a road. Either going uphill or down. Due to the contours NOT being labeled it's hard to tell. Switchbacking a tube makes no sense - you would go point to point with steps or elevators to make up the elevation.

Those numbers (3480, 3458) don't look like contour elevations. They aren't labeled on the contour itself. Plus, that elevation would be way too high for this little island.

There looks to be a dimensional leader line under 45-290 leading to the hatch.

The "C" in the circle probably represents a code that is explained in the chart that's just above the hatch. "A" = blah blah, "B" = blah blah, "C" = blah blah.
100%
Maybe it's not a road.

Maybe it's an underground river?

It would be hard to map an underground river.

campstumblemuch

03-01-2007, 10:40 AM

It would be hard to map an underground river.

Yeah right, hard like getting a polar bear to live on a tropical island? This is Dharma we're talking about.

You just drop a GPS transmitter in at the head end of the river and track where it goes.

I'm not saying it is an underground river, I'm just saying it's not neessarily a road just because Sawyer says it is.

sheba

03-01-2007, 10:49 AM

Yeah right, hard like getting a polar bear to live on a tropical island? This is Dharma we're talking about.

You just drop a GPS transmitter in at the head end of the river and track where it goes.

I'm not saying it is an underground river, I'm just saying it's not neessarily a road just because Sawyer says it is.

No need to be catty. I don't think it's a case of anyone taking Sawyer's word as gospel. I think people are just crediting him with the ability to read. It seems reasonable to assume that Sawyer read something on the map that made him say "they were building a dirt road". Why would he have specified a dirt road, unless he read that on the map?

If he didn't know what it was, surely he would have just said, 'hey. It's some kind of map.'

campstumblemuch

03-01-2007, 10:51 AM

Question Everything!

South Shore

03-01-2007, 11:04 AM

I'm just not certain about the engineering logic of building an underground system with switchbacks. That would appear in straight lines, even if these were systems between hatches.

campstumblemuch

03-01-2007, 11:06 AM

We do you assume it was built. Maybe its a natural event.

South Shore

03-01-2007, 11:08 AM

We do you assume it was built. Maybe its a natural event.

Because the map appears to be a blueprint of something to be built.

zaphod_fl

03-01-2007, 11:10 AM

Looking at the HD screencap it appears to be switchbacks climbing some elevation (based on the elevation lines). It is also obvious because there was the hill for Hurley to drive down.

PurpleSky

03-01-2007, 12:37 PM

I noticed several posters referring to the "W" after the "45" and "290". On the screencap I have, it's clear that it's not a "W" at all-- it's two V's. (VV). So, its' "45 290 VV". I poked around a little bit and found that VV is an abbreviation for Vertical Transmit, Vertical Receive. This references the polarization of 2-way communication antennae.
Maybe some ham radio enthusiast could attach some significance to 45 and 290...maybe degrees, frequency?

"Antennas" include all types of transmission and reception devices...including satellite dishes.

Stumper

03-01-2007, 01:05 PM

Link to map:

http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage.php?album=1258&pos=452

piscescat

03-01-2007, 01:07 PM

Just remembering that in the scene with Goodman and Ana-Lucia having a chat over the apple snack.... there was a white car in the background. It was assumed to be a goof, but what if it wasn't?

I do hope someone does some investigating to see if they can find the road (or traces of it) near the Swan Hatch location. There's also some kind of table charts on the map, but they're too small to make out what the details are.

klalkis

03-01-2007, 02:06 PM

I agree, its a VV on the map, and of all the possible VV definitions I found, that (Vertical Trasmit and Recieve) seems the most likely.

I have a problem with the topology of the map: the contour lines are supposed to be drawn at equally divided elevations, but the numbers (2093480 and 3458) and road (if it is a road) do not reflect this. This may mean that we are not measuring elevation with the contours, but another type of scalar field. This wouldn't be a magnetic field, those are vector fields (and would've been graphed as such). The difference in numbers on the contours, assuming the second number has been truncated on the left, is 22, measured over 5 contours, giving the contours a seperation of 4.4 each. such an odd choice. Without assuming truncation, the difference is 2090022, again over 5 contours. Giving a contour difference of 418004.4, again nothing that makes sense to be chosen.

Logarithmic contours? the ratio between the two numbers is another strange number, but taking the 5th root, we find that the common ratio between each pair of contours would be 3.6. but... oh...wait

The numbers on the map are underlined, and point to a section of the 'road'. One on the first curve from the swan, and one near the slight curve before leaving the map. so then what are the numbers? distances? from/to what?

And does being able to see the Swan Station layout help orient us at all? elevation, north?

PurpleSky

03-01-2007, 02:09 PM

Looking at the HD screencap it appears to be switchbacks climbing some elevation (based on the elevation lines). It is also obvious because there was the hill for Hurley to drive down.

If I remember correctly, Boone and Locke were following what appeared to be a rocky creek bed when they dropped the flashlight and discovered the hatch (1x11). I think it's entirely possible that the "road" that is being debated is actually that waterway.

lostobsessed23

03-01-2007, 02:25 PM

On the HD map, there is a square in the top right corner.
It almost looks like a list to me.
Maybe a map key?
It looks like an excel spreadsheet!

Finnster

03-01-2007, 03:06 PM

My question still stands folks....why would you draw the INSIDE of the Swan hatch on a ROAD map...??? If it were a road map, the Swan station would more than likely be represented by the symbol and not drawn out.

What do you think about my area of effect of the magnetic anomaly theory??? The data boxes could hold data pertaining to that event..?? No one seems to want to address the possibility of that...

I agree it LOOKS like a road map, but this is Lost guys....Think...what WAS the Swan station all about? And why would you have a road connecting to the interior of the station itself?

pdh1978

03-01-2007, 03:30 PM

On the HD map, there is a square in the top right corner.
It almost looks like a list to me.
Maybe a map key?
It looks like an excel spreadsheet!

It's a construction drawing, so it's probably just some notes about construction. Looks to me as if it's a list of road points and elevations. Nothing too much to read into...

Billy Shears

03-01-2007, 04:55 PM

My question still stands folks....why would you draw the INSIDE of the Swan hatch on a ROAD map...??? If it were a road map, the Swan station would more than likely be represented by the symbol and not drawn out.

I agree it LOOKS like a road map, but this is Lost guys....Think...what WAS the Swan station all about? And why would you have a road connecting to the interior of the station itself?

I took it for a road at first but I'll hold off on that for now. One reason is, if you look where this 'road' connects to the Swan diagram, it's halfway between the two ends; the shaft where they originally came in, and the dome area. I think this is about where the magnet was positioned along the hallway, and not where the outside entrance was. The entrance I think was on the far end of the hallway past the dome area, and that's where a road would lead to, right?

So, if it connects to the magnet area of the Swan, it would have to be an underground tunnel. If this tunnel were meant to be traversed with any kind of vehicle; electric carts, mining cars, push carts etc.. then since it goes up a fairly steep hill it would have to be a switchback path just as an above ground road would have to be.

PurpleSky

03-01-2007, 05:17 PM

I took it for a road at first but I'll hold off on that for now. One reason is, if you look where this 'road' connects to the Swan diagram, it's halfway between the two ends; the shaft where they originally came in, and the dome area. I think this is about where the magnet was positioned along the hallway, and not where the outside entrance was. The entrance I think was on the far end of the hallway past the dome area, and that's where a road would lead to, right?

So, if it connects to the magnet area of the Swan, it would have to be an underground tunnel. If this tunnel were meant to be traversed with any kind of vehicle; electric carts, mining cars, push carts etc.. then since it goes up a fairly steep hill it would have to be a switchback path just as an above ground road would have to be.

Are you saying this tunnel meets up with one of the X-ed out areas as seen on the Blast Door Map? That would be interesting....

Hey, wait a minute....check out the Blast Door Map again. There are similar looking "road" or "tunnel" drawings. None of them match up to the Van Map, but the Van Map may take over where the Blast Door Map cuts off...

lucky4me8

03-01-2007, 05:23 PM

Are you guys sure that it's the Swan symbol on the map? It looks to me like inside the DHARMA octagon it says either "CV" or "C4".

PurpleSky

03-01-2007, 05:30 PM

I cleaned up the screencap a little and I truly think it's the Swan. I don't see CV or C4. You can easily find inverted images out there of this map. That will give you a better (or at least different) look at it.

popstalindesign

03-01-2007, 05:46 PM

On the HD map, there is a square in the top right corner.
It almost looks like a list to me.
Maybe a map key?
It looks like an excel spreadsheet!

Actually with my screen cap it looks like a building of some sort.

FishBiscuit

03-01-2007, 06:10 PM

OK folks...time to nerd out here. I'm a surveyor and I draw topo maps once a week. Klalkis - I think the "2093480" is actually 209 and 3480, just printed close together. If that's the case, the map shows the Swan in a valley and the "road" or whatever it is is coming upward. What I don't get about the switchbacks is that when they stop, the grade is no less steep than where the switchbacks are, in fact the contours get tighter indicating more steep, which makes me wonder if it winding for a different reason. The rectangles are definately some sort of table - it would be nice if someone could enhance them.

The producers may have just not expected an "expert" to scrutinize the mapso much which may explain the road thing, but I think they know how we zoom in on every single thing so there's bound to be a clue on here for something. I still think the road comes out of a valley, though.

mgracer102

03-01-2007, 06:21 PM

Only if they've taken Jack back to Othersville.
Jack's still on the other island, after all.Jack left with the others back to the main island, he needed to be with Ben.

Born Acorn

03-01-2007, 06:45 PM

Maybe the map was the route to the local stop and rob (my name for convenience stores) on his beer run. Just where does one go on a beer run on an island? It's almost like one hatch had a beer supply and another borrowed some. Also Roger was a workman maybe the map was the proposed plans for a road.

Well, Roger's shirt and the beer cans both had Swan logos on them, yet the actual VW van had a generic Dharma logo.

I'd gather he was coming from wherever the food supplies are kept (The Other's home?) to the Swan. Of course, he could also have been going back, having confiscated said beer. :p

Billy Shears

03-01-2007, 06:46 PM

Are you saying this tunnel meets up with one of the X-ed out areas as seen on the Blast Door Map? That would be interesting....

Hey, wait a minute....check out the Blast Door Map again. There are similar looking "road" or "tunnel" drawings. None of them match up to the Van Map, but the Van Map may take over where the Blast Door Map cuts off...

I think this Swan floor layout someone did is pretty accurate so I superimposed in on Roger's map to see what happened. If it's a road it ends above the hatch, if it's a tunnel it connects to the hallway or near where the magnet is. What do you think?
http://img440.imageshack.us/img440/5946/roadmappk9.jpg

Jetschick

03-01-2007, 07:09 PM

I took it for a road at first but I'll hold off on that for now. One reason is, if you look where this 'road' connects to the Swan diagram, it's halfway between the two ends; the shaft where they originally came in, and the dome area. I think this is about where the magnet was positioned along the hallway, and not where the outside entrance was. The entrance I think was on the far end of the hallway past the dome area, and that's where a road would lead to, right?

So, if it connects to the magnet area of the Swan, it would have to be an underground tunnel. If this tunnel were meant to be traversed with any kind of vehicle; electric carts, mining cars, push carts etc.. then since it goes up a fairly steep hill it would have to be a switchback path just as an above ground road would have to be.

I totally agree with this...My first impression when I saw this was blueprint not roadmap. Why have the drawing of the hatch. You would just note where it was located, not show the whole footprint of the hatch, if it was a road outside. I think this is totally undergound IMHO. Plus it reminds me of the blast door map. It's a map alright...An underground blueprint map...LOL :39:

Earendil

03-01-2007, 07:32 PM

Too bad Kate & Co. don't have that map. Might've been useful to them.

Actually it wouldn't since as far as Kate knows, Jack is still on the other island. Jack left after Kate and Sawyer so they don't know about him leaving with Ben.

Dublin Dilettante

03-01-2007, 07:50 PM

What if it predates the Swan? The symbol could indicate the planned site. After all, one generally associates workmen with construction....

Unlikely, given that this hypothesis implies that the Swan was completed without anyone claiming Roger's remains or noticing his absence, but worth considering.

MinnieVanMommie

03-01-2007, 08:11 PM

now that they have a car....(albiet noit a lot of gas that we know of)...they can always drive it and see where it takes them...

Clochard

03-01-2007, 08:22 PM

ROADTRIP!!

I bet it will be Hurley and the gang who find Jack, seeing as Kate will be looking in the wrong place.

MinnieVanMommie

03-01-2007, 08:37 PM

Now that could be fun.....

I get shotgun this time...lol

CaraRose

03-02-2007, 01:56 AM

Ooh, thank you! It does appear to be switchbacks, running through elevation lines, leading to a valley . . . Othersville?

I was thinking that as well. The switchbacks look like they're going down to me, but my map reading from earth science is mostly purged at this point, so I might be misreading the contour map.

Anyone with better eyesight able to get a good look at the pattern to upper rightish? It seems like a square pattern of lines there breaking the contours, it looks odd.

MFerris

03-02-2007, 02:13 AM

Maybe it's an tunnel.

PurpleSky

03-02-2007, 11:59 AM

To me, it looks as if the Swan station has been pasted on a topographic map and then copied again. With the exception of one contour line, everything on the contour map is covered by a rectangle that contains the artwork of the Swan. I see contour lines and the road (tunnel) are covered in spots by this "pasted" piece. The "road" is covered by this cut-and-paste rectangle in three distinct spots.
This leads me to believe that the elements found on the contour map predate the Swan artwork. Therefore, that "road" or "tunnel" was there before the Swan station; not the other way around. Maybe it was a road necessary to access the building site of the Swan...or it's that rocky creek bed Boone and Locke were following. Or, it was a pre-existing tunnel they were well aware of prior to construction, and they wanted the Swan to tie into it.

Billy Shears

03-02-2007, 02:45 PM

This is the clearest screen cap I've seen:http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Image:3x10-van-map-invert.jpg

I was thinking. If the 'path' goes downhill towards the Swan, then they must have rolled the van down from the switchback area to the level ground where Hurley was doing circles, then left it parked. This is the area of the "circle C" on the map. Interesting. "Circles-circle".

Did the van have a license plate?

Also, Are we supposed to suspend our belief that the semi-circular cavity left by the Swan implosion represents the destruction of the entire structure? When I look again at the Swan blueprint, it seems much, much bigger than that hole. I want someone to climb down there. I bet there are rooms left with useful items.

Team Taskmaster

03-02-2007, 02:50 PM

I think this Swan floor layout someone did is pretty accurate so I superimposed in on Roger's map to see what happened. If it's a road it ends above the hatch, if it's a tunnel it connects to the hallway or near where the magnet is. What do you think?
http://img440.imageshack.us/img440/5946/roadmappk9.jpg

We find this to be the most compelling argument so far. The images match well. I won't hazard a guess as to what the double lined path/road/streambed/whatever might be, but it does seem to match up nicely with the blocked doorway/opening. It also makes perfect sense to me that the layout of the station would be on the map/blueprint and also have the Sawn Station logo there, just for easy identification purpose in case the document's viewers didn't all know the Swan layout by heart. Nice job, Billy Shears. The Taskmasters will mull over this for the next few days.
As a general note, I'm really enjoying this particular thread. Thanks to all the thoughtful posters who have given us a lot to consider.

imfromthepast

03-02-2007, 03:25 PM

oxidized

03-02-2007, 04:20 PM

When I think of a blueprint and maps and I consider what someone might use a map like this for, (besides a road) I think it could also either be power or water. I'm guessing that it wouldn't be water considering that there are creeks and rivers seemingly everywhere. So, perhaps it is a power line. A magnet of such magnitude would require a lot of power. Unfortunately, I cannot justify the switchbacks when applied to powerlines, even underground power lines. Unless the lines are carrying some strange form of power that needs to follow the contours of the land...... I would imagine though it is some sort of service line.

PurpleSky

03-02-2007, 04:21 PM

the Swan was underground, and so this path is underground. It is a tunnel. In fact I am going to go so far as to propose the following speculation, to be either confirmed or denied next Wednesday:

The tunnel was what was blocked by the concrete in the Swan.
The tunnel has now been unblocked by the implosion.
The tunnel leads to or near the Flame.
This is how Locke and Co. find Patchy.

I'll jump on this bandwagon--even though the views of the imploded hatch we have seen thus far don't indicate the presence of a tunnel. Still, it just makes sense.

Furthermore, I believe
a) the Bast Door Map continues the mapping of this underground tunnel network
b) the Swan passages were blocked/sealed as a result of the incident
c) the others utilize the unblocked sections of this underground network

spezialk

03-02-2007, 04:55 PM

Problem solved...

Roger caused the incident.
Roger was driving away, while drinking heavily and purposely flipped the van to kill himself because of his involvement with "the incident."
I win.
:-P
_kris

South Shore

03-02-2007, 07:29 PM

the Swan was underground, and so this path is underground. It is a tunnel. In fact I am going to go so far as to propose the following speculation, to be either confirmed or denied next Wednesday:

The tunnel was what was blocked by the concrete in the Swan.
The tunnel has now been unblocked by the implosion.
The tunnel leads to or near the Flame.
This is how Locke and Co. find Patchy.

I'm very cool with those who speculate that this map indicated a tunnel system. I do have one question. I am in NO WAY an engineer or have a mind that can grasp this sort of thing, but I am wondering why a system of tunnels would be build in a switchback fashion. Underground, couldn't you simply build these tunnels in intersecting straight lines, rather than the curves of a switchback, that are meant to evade erosion? Help my out, my Lostie engineer friends!

LovesLaboursLost

03-02-2007, 09:00 PM

I would imagine that Othersville would be somewhere up there too, but then of course :D
I'm sure that the "map" is actually an engineering blueprint, used by workers who originally constructed Otherville 20 years ago. When Roger went missing, the others probably assumed smokey killed him.

And, I'm sure it will come in handy when rescuing Jack.
100%
It's 45 and 290.
If the island is at 45.290 W, that would put it in the middle of the Atlantic!
Also, it looks like the numbers in the upper-left corner begin with "20N".
If so, the island is on a direct path between Nigeria and Florida.
How it got there from Sydney is anybody's guess.

Iamonthemanifest

03-03-2007, 02:08 AM

http://img224.imageshack.us/img224/3071/snap3tz5.jpg

The map
I am having a polar bear hallucination...left upper corner, looks like wrinkles in the paper, or an embossment. The color shading is lighter there. Like it could be a mountain range in the shape of a polar bear? Would go along with the painting in Widmore's office. I know, I know...alot of people think I am quackin' when I start with the polar bears, but then again...:confused:

hellotzp

03-03-2007, 05:44 AM

i posted this speculation on another thread (http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=70980). it didn't seem to generate any interest - it mighta even been a thread killer - but in reading through this one, i am kind of excited about it. i hope it isn't rude to repost it here, but this thread is rally great reading, and i wanted to share! the "clue" really does seem to support the idea that the map represents a road.

...at the abc 815 message-boards-related flash site ( put up at the end of season one) the main page had two sort-of easter egg/spoilers: the first was the beam of light that appears in the background, a clue/spoiler/reference to the hatch and the bright light that desmond shone up from the swan station into the night sky after the hatch door was dynamited open. the other was never really explained, nor did it connect to anything specific. i think most people assumed it had something to do with the "monster' (i know i did).

in the darkened forest, roughly parallel to the beach, two tiny yellow lights can be seen flickering through the foliage. they are very hard to see, but enough folks spotted them to generate a thread discussion, way back when. check it, you can see 'em, here -

http://www.oceanicflight815.com/index.html?b=1

they occur about 1/8 of the way from the bottom, in the left half of the screen.

ok so, yeah, the two lights could look like glowing eyes. but in perspective, they kinda-sorta look like headlights moving along a winding road! when i first saw them, i remember thinking of the "dragon" that scared people off from exploring the tropical island/lair-of-evil-mastermind in the first james bond film, dr.no. the dragon turned out to be a nothing more than a jeep, with flame-throwers.

admittedly, the lights seen in the flash image move far too fast to be headlights. but not if there is more than one car.

they look a little bit like sparse traffic, moving in two directions over rough track, obscured by curves of the road and forest.

... i sure do love the idea that there's been a little clue percolating there for us all along, ever since the end of season one! it would give me a little hope that TPTB really do have a plan.

if one looks at the lay of the land in the flash image and compares it to the layout of the map, they are really similar!

Saukkomies

03-03-2007, 08:28 AM

Could someone please tell me where the map is now? I don't recall what the boys did with it. Is it still in the van?

PurpleSky

03-03-2007, 09:49 AM

I'm very cool with those who speculate that this map indicated a tunnel system. I do have one question. I am in NO WAY an engineer or have a mind that can grasp this sort of thing, but I am wondering why a system of tunnels would be build in a switchback fashion. Underground, couldn't you simply build these tunnels in intersecting straight lines, rather than the curves of a switchback, that are meant to evade erosion? Help my out, my Lostie engineer friends!

Although not an engineer either, I share that same opinion. Kind of a "shortest distance between two points" thing, you know? Maybe the caves formed naturally somehow?

triskele

03-03-2007, 10:39 AM

CoffeeBean

03-03-2007, 06:26 PM

eumaios

03-04-2007, 01:09 AM

In the school "letter" in the van near the skull, there are numbers like 238 2594 repeated several times. At one point, I thought it might be C followed by the numbers.

Yeah, I think it's 208 3200 also. Then down right form that, looks like 340W and above the Swan, looks like 45 290W.

Any guess what the C in the circle to the left of the Swan station means?

Selene1212

03-04-2007, 03:32 AM

BigRedCube

03-04-2007, 04:28 AM

hang on...i will make a screenshot now
100%
does anyone have some webspace?? I can email a high res screenshot

South Shore

03-04-2007, 05:15 PM

Could it be a mine of some sort? Wouldn't you need switchbacks for railroad type tracks? It would also fit with Roses perception of the noise they heard in The Pilot being a city type noise. (Like a subway)

Or it could be a tunnel built that way so Smokey could gain power/propulsion or something... :shrug:

Yes, that's a good point about why a tunnel would have switchbacks. Imagine The Others carting along between stations in their little mineshaft cars! Did we see something like this in The Staff station during the maternity ward episode?

Carlo210

03-04-2007, 05:57 PM

Havn't read the thread, but I'm pretty sure that the losties will find the dirt road the 'dharma freaks' (as Sawyer likes to put it) built and *insert event here*.

Fogey

03-04-2007, 11:48 PM

Wouldn't you need switchbacks for railroad type tracks?That is one solution to a train climbing a hill but not the only one. In this case I believe the corners have too small a radius (too sharp) for a rail set up. If it was a question of small mine shaft size cars on tracks in a tunnel I would lean towards a straighter tunnel and use cable drives ala the street cars in San Francisco or perhaps a cog rail set up. Tunneling is hard expensive work compared to a surface road.

I think the map shows a surface road but the switchbacks don't appear to be a good match to what the topo map indicates. I suspect the problem is that the prop department didn't consult a road engineer when they set up this map. I think we are going off on a wild tangent (Just like Roger did when he missed a corner ;) ) by examining the map in too detailed a fashion.

mrain01

03-05-2007, 07:18 AM

That is one solution to a train climbing a hill but not the only one. In this case I believe the corners have too small a radius (too sharp) for a rail set up. If it was a question of small mine shaft size cars on tracks in a tunnel I would lean towards a straighter tunnel and use cable drives ala the street cars in San Francisco or perhaps a cog rail set up. Tunneling is hard expensive work compared to a surface road.

I think the map shows a surface road but the switchbacks don't appear to be a good match to what the topo map indicates. I suspect the problem is that the prop department didn't consult a road engineer when they set up this map. I think we are going off on a wild tangent (Just like Roger did when he missed a corner ;) ) by examining the map in too detailed a fashion.

Amen.

Sawyer said they appeared they were building a dirt road. Why can't that be it?
Why do we have to have tunnels, trains, etc?

It seems to me the numbers are prominently displayed on the map. These would seem to be the real clue.

Zada

03-05-2007, 10:28 AM

XMOZZAZX pointed out another forum that, if this is a topo map, the lines are too evenly spaced to indicate anything other than a gradual change in elevation. I thought about this and then remembered seeing similar lines on weather maps--isobars used to delineate the changes in air pressure. Then I started wondering if maybe these weren't isobars, but rather used to identify the chages in the electromagnetic field generated (or controlled, or monitored, or harnessed, or whatever it is that the Swan did) by the Swan station.

And this brings me to the ©, with the info from the Lost puzzles, could this mark the location of the Cerberus Vent?
Or just tell us that the map is copyrighted?

I agree. I don't think the lines on the map are topo lines. The spacing does indicates a super steep slope and the Swan station didn't appear to be at the bottom of a steep valley or the top of a steep hill. I'll jump on the electromagnetic field lines bandwagon.

As for the 'road' - not a clue what that line really is. It begins/ends at the Swan station but does it begin/end above or below ground? If it's below I think the Losties would have noticed some kind of tunnel. If it's above, I suppose it could have been some kind of road at some point or a proposed road.

I'll also jump on the 490 VV bandwagon. Those are two V's and not a W.

PurpleSky

03-05-2007, 12:40 PM

Without thinking much before posting... ;)

Could the switchbacks on the map in the van actually be the driving that Hurley did IN said van?

So it's a Time/Perception thing?

OK…bear with me. I’ve been thinking about this and can’t shake the parallels between the Hippy Car and the Beechcraft; and I think I have it all tying into the “copyright” mark on the map.

Beechcraft / VW
- Discovered by Locke / Discovered by Hurley
- Explored by Boone / Experienced by Charlie
- Precariously positioned / Precariously positioned
- “Flown” down from the canopy / Driven down from the hillside
- Contained heroin and dead guys / Contained alcohol and a dead guy
- Had a working radio / Has a working radio
- Significant final resting spot / ????????

The final resting place of the Beechcraft corresponded to the circled question mark on the Blast Door Map, which could only be viewed from above once the Beechcraft was removed from the canopy (recall the salted earth in the shape of a circle or semicircle).

What if the VW’s drive down the hillside and final resting spot mirrors that of the Beechcraft? Only this time, Boone doesn’t die during trip. Instead, Charlie is saved. (Maybe the Losties are starting to “get things right” this time around.)

OK…from out of left field….as we last see Hurley, he’s NASCARing around in circle. Screencaps already show the beginnings of ruts being formed. We didn’t see Hurley back at the beach, so maybe he continues doing that until he runs out of gas. Maybe this is the beginning of the “circled C” on the map that will only achieve significance at a later date. The sign could be viewed from atop the hillside, just like the question mark.

No, it doesn’t make a whole lot of sense, but it would be a freaky, Lost-ish twist.

Finnster

03-05-2007, 12:56 PM

triskele aand zada .... I posted this theory a couple of pages back and it just made sense ( the electromagnetic fields emanating from the Swan Station ). Thanks for getting on board.

I postulated that the "road" was actually the path of least magnetic resistance from the "effect" of the magnetism. Remember the many upon many discussions of Michael and Walt's heading as they left the island...??? The "path" on the map finally straightens out and goes in one direction into the distance.

Now there are some very smart people on this board. If they can take the map from the van, correctly geo-reference north and find the heading of that "road" on the map and compare it to Michael's departure vector... well...this is just a theory after all.....

Any takers??

TK 421

03-05-2007, 01:06 PM

If it is a contour map, the line could be a road switch-backing up the hill until it gets to an equal elevation to something on the other side of the island, at which point it goes into a tunnel. That would explain why towards the left it just goes straight disregarding the contours...

I would like the road to be an underground tunnel system or the lines on the map to be magnetic too though! Just not enough to go on yet...can't wait to find out!

PurpleSky

03-06-2007, 10:53 AM

I agree. I don't think the lines on the map are topo lines. The spacing does indicates a super steep slope and the Swan station didn't appear to be at the bottom of a steep valley or the top of a steep hill. I'll jump on the electromagnetic field lines bandwagon.

{edit}

I'll also jump on the 490 VV bandwagon. Those are two V's and not a W.

OK...if these are indeed electromagnetic field propagation lines, and those are indeed two V's (which could refer to the polarization of an antenna), then

The circled-C could be a satellite dish that's about to be discovered. It's sitting at the center of the proposed field lines, and the C could stand for COMMUNICATIONS.

cdmphy

03-07-2007, 01:39 PM

Could the map actually be an early diagram of the tunnel system? I know that Sawyer mentioned that it was a road, but maybe it was a red herring meant to lead us in a different direction. I'm probably wrong but that's the first thing I thought of when I saw it. Any comments?

I don't think tunnels would need to follow contour lines, which these definitely are. So it would seem to me that the line in question would most likely be a road. However, a road would no need to weave in between contours of 5 meters. And that seems to be the definite interval on this map as you can see 5 lines between the 3458 mark in the middle and the 3480 in the upper left corner. That is a gradual slope that would not require a road to weave. Also if these are 5 meter intervals that is a very large scale map (meaning greater detail) and there are no other stations possible within the confines of what we see. So going back to your tunnel theory, it might be possible that the weaving would be necessary to underlying bedrock. However bedrock on and island isn't as dense being that it is new igneous rock whereas the denser rock that would require this type of modification to a makeshift tunnel would be your gneiss and schists and such found on old land. So to surmise, who knows. The only thing for certain is that nobody will tell anybody about this map until Cuselof's zombie season.

Billy Shears

03-07-2007, 04:00 PM

...quick thought; What if the circle C represents the 'center' of magnetic attraction on the island, and Hurley circled in the (metallic)van right over it only because he was unable to drive away from it?

Automission

03-09-2007, 10:45 AM

Not to point out a flaw, but from my map reading at school, with topical graphical maps, the smaller the rings get, means the higher up the area is. So according to that map, the swan is/was at the higher point of the island. also the curves seem to suggest an easy way down/ up the hill, rather that struggling against the vertical slope.

wintermute

03-23-2007, 10:53 AM

Well, this thread is pretty awesome so I though I'd chip in :)

I think it's safe to assume that the map was not done by amateurs, since the Lost producers would know by now that any clue, any tiny detail they give us will be analysed and over-analysed 10,000 times. So the map should be free of any errors and just show us exactly what they want us to see...

I did 20 minutes of research on Google starting with the assumption that the acronym "vv" stands fo Vertical Transmit/Vertical Receive, since it seemed the most fitting choice in this context. Here is some loose speculation (with reasoning):

1. The road is a road is a road

One word - switchbacks. I tried for a while (well, 5 minutes) to find any other use for switchbacks other than railways and roads but could not. I am also a fan of Occam's Razor - the "road" could be a naturally carved underground river in a strange winding pattern that somehow flows through(?) the Swan... or it could be a road. Remember the Swan is underground, so there is no reason why a surface road could not lead to a gate in a cliff face, enter the hatch and then exit out the other side. It would explain why the Swan is not just a symbol on the map.

TANGENT: Looking at the great Swan diagram here ('http://img440.imageshack.us/img440/5946/roadmappk9.jpg') and the map, what is the big room jutting out to the north (to which the 45-290vv is linked with a line? It's not on the diagram...

2. The biggest one of all - the countour lines on the map are not elevation values.

Let's start with the values on the map. I think it is significant that they have no units associated with them - giving us a lot of different possibilities. I believe the 2093480 in the top left is actually 209 and 3480 right next to each other. There is a slight difference in brightness between the two, they appear slightly skewed vertically and it just seems like the sort of thing TPTB would do to put us off :p That would make the 209 and 290 a pair of values and 3480 and 3458 another.

TANGENT: Both the 3000 values have a line underneath them pointing (it seems) to the road. Which is puzzling since it would make relatively more sense if they had something to do with the contours. I mean in the context of a road could they be elevation? If so then in what units? Metres puts the road 3km above sea level, which is a tad too high :p Even feet makes it 1km, still too high for me. Maybe the ymeasure the Island height from the seabed? Another possibility is distance, but once again in meters it does not make much sense and less so in feet. 30 metres is not nearly long enough to have two switchbacks and almost as much again of straight road... Ideas?

So why are the lines not elevation? Well simply because as someone already pointed out it makes no sense to have switchbacks for half a steep hill and then just say, screw it, we'll make it stright from now on, safety be damned :) It is also unrealistic in the engineering context - surely the hill is either to steep (hence, switchbacks) or it is not. Why waste time and energy on something that is not needed? Surely the brainiacs in Dharma are not that stupid.

p.s. I got the feeling from looking at the map that the road was somehow traced on maybe, added later etc. It seems much brighter than everything else, so much so it stands out quite a bit.

3. The contour lines are actually a satellite dish or radio receiver/transmitter footprint

So anyway, I was looking at the 'vv' thing when I stumbled on this ('http://www.groundcontrol.com/galileo/ch1-sat-int-basics2.htm'). I know it's for satellite internet, but the pages describe the basics of operation. Scroll down to the pretty coloured table here ('http://www.groundcontrol.com/galileo/galileofootprint.jpg'). Oh, look, contour lines. And look values, wow they look mighty close to the 45 we have right there on the map. Those values stand for the EIRP and I quote

In the above footprint, the numbers in red represent the EIRP regions on the planet. The higher the EIRP number, the greater the signal strength. If you have a region with a low EIRP, you may have to use a larger satellite dish in order to receive the signal.

So trying to see where this would lead I started looking at this value in terms of dish size. Here's ('http://www.geo-orbit.org/sizepgs/eirporgcharts.htm') some data if you REALLY must know :) What it boils down to is that in the most popular transmitting spectrums, an EIRP of 45 would require a dish approximately 1m in diameter - definitely not impossible to hide in the jungle somewhere. So the only thing left is...

4. The © is indeed the location of a radio receiver/transmitter of some sort

QED. Well, not really, but it was a fun bit of investigating to do. The map of course could be something totally different and we would be none the wiser. Feel free to add to or poke holes in this theory. Also, I could not find any sample values for 'vv' anywhere - if they look anywhere near 290 of any unit that would go a long way to validating this.

Also, no one has as yet paid much attention to the two tables! Surely they are significant in some way. All I can say is they look a lot like the data for different frequency transmissions I found on a lot of sites while looking this up. But they could also be beer quota for the day for all I know :)

Sorry I wrote so much :) Take care!