I find it weird that the Others didnt find Roger when he didnt come back from his duties....No missing person report?

Can we go back to the idea that there are 2 groups of others?

I thought the same thing. He didn't really seem very hard to find. It seems like they just left him there.

By the looks of him and the 60's VW minivan I think Roger was out there long before the Others got to the island, except for maybe Ben and he would have been much younger 30+ years ago.

I find it weird that the Others didnt find Roger when he didnt come back from his duties....No missing person report?

Can we go back to the idea that there are 2 groups of others?

Exactly. Probably 2 groups at pretty much, two different times.

I think we are supposed to learn that Dharma and the Others are the two groups and maybe Dharma was first. I think Roger was likely part of whichever group was there first and not our current group of Others. I'm guessing he (or the van) crossed paths with Smokey.

Perhaps Roger's death coincided with the demise of DHARMA, so his MIA status was not a major concern.

Maybe it happened around the same time as the 'incident' and there were few left to look,

You'd think that they'd at least miss the car, huh? Come on, a car on an island seems like a pretty valuable asset. Well, now IHOP has himself a car...how cool is that:cool: !

You'd think that they'd at least miss the car, huh? Come on, a car on an island seems like a pretty valuable asset. Well, now IHOP has himself a car...how cool is that:cool: !


That depends. Does he know where the Dharma gas station is?

Really think that the original Dharma Initiative and our current Others are separate groups. Roger worked for Dharma. The Others are part of a new group with similar Dharma goals and using old Dharma facilities and equipment.

Roger probably may have checked out as Dharma was failing...maybe the disease...maybe alcohol intoxication :)

If Smokey were on the loose on the south side of the Island, Roger was driving on the south side, and didn't come back--maybe they were too scared to go looking for him?

Maybe Roger refused to confess his sins.

I think it's the "incident" . I'm under the assumption that the incident was very similiar to Des turning the fail safe key - at least the same sort of effect.
Which could have possibly killed a large number of Dharma employee's and thus they evacuated the island and left everyone else?

If they left everyone there...than who would put another group...apparently, The Others knew about Desmond and tha Hatch....Although I like the idea that both groups didnt know one another...I am not so sure I can agree with that ...yet

Really think that the original Dharma Initiative and our current Others are separate groups. Roger worked for Dharma. The Others are part of a new group with similar Dharma goals and using old Dharma facilities and equipment.

Roger probably may have checked out as Dharma was failing...maybe the disease...maybe alcohol intoxication :)

Agreed

Lostpedia reckons the Dharma beer has the Swan logo printed on the label (didn't get a close look myself.) Maybe the civil war kicked off over Roger raiding Radzinsky's stash.

I just looked up roger workman...guess what?? I found 3....or maybe one...so here is my new theory...

1. He is a member of the Professional Bowlers Association Read...

Bulldog" Packs a Record-Breaking Bite - bowler Roger Workman
Bowling Digest, Feb, 2001 by Larry Paladino

Between events, Roger Workman is as tame as could be, but on the lanes he's a ferocious competitor

ROGER WORKMAN DOESN'T show up to PBA Senior tour events--instead, his alter ego does. The quiet, easygoing Workman seen by friends and fellow bowlers away from the lanes just isn't the same man as the intense competitor who steps on the approach with a focus that tunes out all distractions.

"We call him `Bulldog.' He's tough," says Gene Stus, who was the title match victim in two of Workman's three senior titles, including The Villages Senior Championship near Ocala, Fla., last March, which awarded a $20,000 first-prize check--as well as a $100,000 house in The Villages. "Roger's pretty quiet. He doesn't say much. He just does his job. He's a quiet person, but he's not quiet with a bowling ball."

Mike Carroll, a friend of Workman's for 30 years, calls him "your tree sportsman," adding, "He doesn't root against you and doesn't want to see anyone bowl bad, but he's like an old attack dog: Once he gets on you, he'll bite you and not let go."

2. There is also another Roger Workman...this one seems to have been in trouble at one point...lol..tax levy's etc...not pretty...
http://www.co.cerro-gordo.ia.us/sheriff/Sales/Archive/Sheriff_Sale_112806c.pdf

3. and finally...there is this one...

http://www.co.cerro-gordo.ia.us/sheriff/Sales/Archive/Sheriff_Sale_112806c.pdf
Here is an exerpt...
Roger Workman was charged with numerous counts of converting government property in violation of 18 U.S.C. § 641, for diverting the proceeds of railroad retirement benefit checks issued in his father's name. The case is now before the court on an interlocutory appeal brought by the government to challenge certain evidentiary rulings of the district court in advance of Roger Workman's second trial on the charges. We reverse and remand. Carl Workman was a retired railroad employee and the father of Roger and Patricia Workman. Carl lived in Mason City, Iowa at the time of his death in 1988, and his will named Roger as executor of his estate and provided that it be evenly divided between the two children. As a retired railroad employee, Carl had received regular retirement payments from the Railroad Retirement Board (RRB), and retirement checks continued to be mailed in his name for more than six years after his death. Roger deposited the checks in a credit union in Ames, Iowa, with the endorsement, "Carl C. Workman, by Roger D. Workman" and the word "executor" written above his name. All the checks were deposited through an automated teller machine which did not require other documentation or a face to face transaction. Roger never contacted the RRB about his father's death or the continuing receipt of the checks, nor did he give any of the proceeds to Patricia or disclose them on his own tax returns. It also does not appear that the funds were ever paid into the estate.

SOOOO....I think that perhaps our lil old Roger excaped the world of bowling and tax levies...and ran away with Dharma...(Yes I know Ithat they are probably 2-3 different people...)..But it is funny

Really think that the original Dharma Initiative and our current Others are separate groups. Roger worked for Dharma. The Others are part of a new group with similar Dharma goals and using old Dharma facilities and equipment.

I think they're two separate groups, but I think their goals are very different. The DHARMA Initiative was supposed to find a way to change one or more core values of the Valenzetti equation (the Numbers) to avert the end of the world. But Mittelwerk said the DI had failed.

I think the new group was sent to set up an outpost of humanity in the hope that the Island is sufficiently isolated that those living on it will escape the coming catastrophe. They were sent by the same people (though perhaps with Mittelwerk in charge instead of Alvar Hanso), so they use HF-owned DHARMA facilities.

Few facts:

We know that the song 'Shambala' was playing in the van. That song came out on 1973, so Roger is post-' 73. It also seemed that Dharma was pretty technologically advanced for the time, so they would have all of the newest electronics in all their machinary. Dharma did not make the Orientation video until the late 70's and people did not populate the stations until the ' 80-' 81. By then, 8 track systems were becoming antiquated. One last thing, the event that is referred to as the "incident" had already happened by the time the videos were made.

OK, based on the above, I feel that Roger died closer to 1973 than the making of the orientation videos. I think that if he died closer to 1980, he would have had newer technology. It is likely that whatever the cause of the "incident" prevented Dharma from looking for Roger.

It also makes me believe that Dharma was probably there for a decade before the videos were made.

Course, I could be completely wrong and Roger was just a hippie that didn't want to let go of his 8-Track :grin:

I find it weird that the Others didnt find Roger when he didnt come back from his duties....No missing person report?

Can we go back to the idea that there are 2 groups of others?

Nothing makes sense about Roger and the van. As you've pointed out, it's very hard to believe he would have been left there (and no, I don't expect an explanation). Also, Hurley would have never gotten the van to run (evaporated gas, dry-rot, etc).

The whole van thing is just another contrived plotline. It makes no sense and will never make sense.

I think there is a relation here to the beer and the demise of poor Roger. He might have gone on a "beer run" , and turned the van several times. He's a gonner.

two points
a.) dont drink and drive, especially on an island that is dominated by killing black puffs of smoke and crazed scientists. That is when you drink and hide...and stay hidden (and preferably drunk).
b.) if the man was on a beer run I find it hard to believe that no one would search for him when he didnt return. Or perhaps it was just easier to go get another case of beer.

And as for the van starting when it shouldnt...well...my guess is that this is a work of fiction. Floating black smoke that reads your mind and kills you, a pirate ship on the middle of an island (sure tsunami could explain that), 48 (or so) people living practically unscathed from a free fall following their plane ripping in half in mid air...
all in all, a 40 year old van that turns over and runs barely shows up on my radar. Its just another gimmick to keep the show going. And for the sake of the episode, it was a cool gimmick....perhaps not believable from some respects but then again...what is...?

It seems to me that ol' Rog was doing the supply drops, going from a supply depot somewhere and then from hatch to hatch dropping off the beer.

The fact that this guy needs to have his name on his shirt to identify him tells me that there are a large number of people on the island, because they don't all know each other. For there to be a guy who's job is just to drive round and deliver supplies means that there are a lot of places to deliver to. Possibly there are more hatches than we realise (or there were at that time).

For some reason he stops the van or has has some sort of accident, and he takes the key out of the ignition. Before he has time to get out of the van something happens, possibly the 'incident', killing him and overturning the van.

Everyone else on the island has been killed or badly wounded in the incident, so either there's nobody left to come looking for Rog or in the aftermath one more dead body is overlooked.

I dunno just a hunch, but I wouldn't be surprised if we eventually see what happened to good ol Roger. I mean it reminds me of the plane that Boone and Locke found that ended up being the same plane that Ecko's brother Yemi was on. I just wouldn't be surprised we see Roger alive in a flashback later on, but who knows.

i think ole roger workman was left there for hurley to find. part of the whole psychological thing that the others are doing. remember in season 1, the losties regained their hope and comradery when they found those golf clubs. and who found them? ethan, an other, giving them to hurley who got everyone to participate. now again, they use hurley bring the losties together, or distract them, i'm not sure what the real point is, but it's too convenient for me that vincent returns from god knows where to bring hurley to a broken down vehicle, which has a whole emotional meaning for him, and surprise surprise, there's tons of beer in it, which we all know is the perfect thing to lure a bunch of guys into hanging out all day, and then when the van finally starts, it plays the very song that hurley associates with his father.

Why are people assuming that Roger has been there for a long time, in that heat a body could decompose in a matter of months. Not to mention the insects that would have been knawing on his flesh and the fact that he was in open air and not underground. Considering the shape the skeleton was in, I would actually assume that he hasn't been there very long. Bones don't last forever and while he wasn't lying on the ground, I would expect the skeleton to have undergone decomposition as well if it was say 20 or 30 years. Hurley and Jin lifted him out of the van without any difficulty - the only thing that fell off was the head. The cartiledge and tendons would definitely be gone after that long, so there wouldn't be anything to hold the bones together. Don't you people watch CSI?? :) I'm kidding about CSI but the decomposition is true.

As for the technology and the van...it could have just been that the van was shipped there in the 70's and they didn't need anymore or couldn't get anymore...or who knows. It's already been pointed out that the technology in the hatch ranges over a few decades.

I think something very scary happened to Mister Roger Workman and I think it will relate to the story in a big way and there has to be a reason that no one was looking for him. Doesn't the load of beer seem odd to anyone?? The "others" don't seem the type to be sending people on beer runs (at least not without another purpose), especially to the other side of the island.

It seems our friend Gregg Nations is hinting at some resolve with just this issue!

http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=71023

It seems our friend Gregg Nations is hinting at some resolve with just this issue!

http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=71023


Whoa - I can't wait to find out about Rog! :biggrin:

It seems our friend Gregg Nations is hinting at some resolve with just this issue!

http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=71023

BWOOOOOOOOOOOW! That's awesome! And more direct than I remember Mr. Nations usually being. :) I can't wait for next week! Skeletor lives!

There were a couple of comments made about the groups not knowing about each other. Also some confusion about how many groups there are. No one's mentioned that Kelvin talked to Desmond about "the hostiles." Did he mean The Others? Or the other Others?

Doesn't the load of beer seem odd to anyone??

Beer and recycling. ;)

I wonder if there were more grocery-type things in the van at one point but someone/something ate them.

I cant believe they wont be looking for Rogers head either:)

The fact that the key was in Roger's hand instead of still in the ignition is, IMO, either a major logical gap or, much more likely in my opinion, a major clue that Roger was killed by something other than the car crash. I'm thinking it's probably definitely the latter. I can believe that a rotting vehicle would start against all logic, because mysterious things like that happen on the island... but I have a harder time believing that someone who had been involved in an accident that was severe enough to cause them to die right there in the driver's seat would have the foresight or the ability to turn off the car and take the key out of ignition. I also think that the fact that the van had no real visible damage besides rust makes it seem doubtful that he was killed in a car crash.

Therefore I think it's highly likely that Roger had already turned off the car normally, had the key in his hand, and was attacked by Smokey. Based on the fact that his body was still in one piece I think that rules out animal attack (i.e., polar bear) as a possibile cause of death. It reminds me of Eko, in fact -- no visible bodily damage (although of course the state of decomposition makes it hard to say), and yet, the guy is dead.
My guess is that Smokey picked up the van with Roger in it, shook it around, killing him in the process, and then dropped it back down on its side. Based on Gregg's response, maybe we'll see what indeed happened to Roger.

Lots of good thoughts here - but not finding Roger and not looking for Roger are two different things. I remember one instance, in my area, where a small plane crashed in a brushy area and was finally found several years later. It was close enough to a freeway to hear the traffic and yes people did look for it when it went down. Deer hunters stumbled across it with the remains of 2 people still in it. So I have no trouble with a car getting lost in a jungle setting.

Ok so nobody on the age of Roger's remains...that was a very thought provoking post and nothing :) geez

Angela, again I agree with you...but then when the pilot got attacked by what we assume was smoky he was a mess. I definitely think that Roger was in the process of taking the key out and possibly getting out to investigate something...

Can't wait to find out...:eek2:

Ok so nobody on the age of Roger's remains...that was a very thought provoking post and nothing :) geez

I actually meant to respond to your post and I forgot! I definitely agree that Roger hasn't been there that long. Maybe a couple of years, but certainly not anywhere close to the estimates that I've seen some people making. From what I understand, a body left out in the elements (keep in mind that Roger was hanging half-way out the window) decomposes very quickly -- if he'd been there for 10-20 years as some people are suggesting, he wold be an absolute skeleton. My estimate is a couple of years, tops.

Angela, again I agree with you...but then when the pilot got attacked by what we assume was smoky he was a mess.

That's true! I guess that Smokey has perhaps different styles of killing according to the situation. ;) I don't know that I'm convinced that Smokey is what killed the pilot, though -- on the other hand, we know that Smokey is what killed Mr. Eko, and there was nowhere near the mess you saw with the pilot. I would tend to think the method would be pretty consistent. But hey, who knows?

Did anyone catch what ended up happening to Roger's remains? Where did the boys leave him?

Did anyone catch what ended up happening to Roger's remains? Where did the boys leave him?
They buried him under a stack of empty beer cans. A fitting tribute to his last beer run.:biggrin:

Yes, again you have a point angela. :)

There is a possibility that just the sight of something gave Roger such a fright that he had a heart attack or something similar. We don't know how old he was. I still think it's odd that he was driving a van on an island where we have seen no other evidence of vehicles and it was full of beer. Of course nothing is really odd at this point. :) Maybe he was trying to escape from the others and they killed him, hence they wouldn't need to look for him. Then, they were scared off or decided to leave him there. Ah so many theories, so little time. :cool:

No other sign of vehicles ..... but maybe Kate and Sawyer were breaking rocks for a new road? Maybe that was the 'project'?

I find it weird that the Others didnt find Roger when he didnt come back from his duties....No missing person report?

Can we go back to the idea that there are 2 groups of others?

Maybe Roger was trying to escape: he may have been running from something or someone. Maybe he was killed, then just left there.

did't roger have the swan logo on his suit

Maybe Roger was trying to escape: he may have been running from something or someone. Maybe he was killed, then just left there.

And he would have gotten away with it too, if it weren't for those darn kids!

Maybe he just drank the beer and that's what killed him? :biggrin:

i think that roger's disappearance was overlooked because the sickness was running riot on the island.

the downfall of dharma was the sickness, imo

http://thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=67808

[quote=linerk;1409654]Why are people assuming that Roger has been there for a long time, in that heat a body could decompose in a matter of months. Not to mention the insects that would have been knawing on his flesh and the fact that he was in open air and not underground. Considering the shape the skeleton was in, I would actually assume that he hasn't been there very long. Bones don't last forever and while he wasn't lying on the ground, I would expect the skeleton to have undergone decomposition as well if it was say 20 or 30 years. Hurley and Jin lifted him out of the van without any difficulty - the only thing that fell off was the head. The cartiledge and tendons would definitely be gone after that long, so there wouldn't be anything to hold the bones together. Don't you people watch CSI?? :) I'm kidding about CSI but the decomposition is true. quote]

If the van was discovered any other place than mystery island, I would agree. However, the island does funny things. Remember Adam and Eve (White Rabbit, I think) in the caves? They did not decompose, they mummified instead. Jack gave a tentative date to the bodies and mused aloud that the bodies should have been well into decomp and weren't. You are right that in normal circumstances, in that environment, the body would decompose quite rapidly. We are not dealing with normal circumstances.

I would, however, love to find out that my above argument is wrong and that Roger is only a few years passed, this would give Adam and Eve more mystery and they are one of my favorite island mysteries.

Ah yes I had forgotten about Adam and Eve to be honest. Also true that these aren't normal circumstances. Yes if you tie Roger in with Adam and Eve then it adds even more mystery. :)

The extent of his decomposition is a valid point.

He looked to me rather like a mummy: dried up, but still with remnants of flesh - cartilidge and sinew, as somebody said - holding him together. I'm no expert, but surely a body would only decompose like that in a hot, dry climate?
Once you introduce humidity everything would rapidly rot away - remember the marshall when they dug him up after only a few days? Plus you have boars, polar bears, etc, as well as smaller animals, rats, insects, who would soon dispose of any fleshy parts.

So .... is this a deliberate hint that the body may have died and decomposed under unusual circumstances? Or just artistic licence?

Conclusions can't be drawn from Roger.

However, my presumption that the Dharma Initiative ran amok is still in play. Another example to support this is the journals that the Pearl hatchers were keeping were never collected nor read. At the very least they coudl have been collected and trashed or recycled or whatever.

I got the feeling those diaries were never meant to be collected...but why is an interesting point. That's why these forums are good, I keep forgetting these little details.

One other question is why did Vincent choose the arm with the key on it?? Everything else on the body was still attached so did Vincent pull the arm off or was it just lying there?? I know, I know the island could have told him to do it or whatever - he's obviously more in tune with the island as shown when Walt was appearing to Shannon but still...there must be some reason other than just to give Hurley hope, no??

Since there was no apparent damage to the van, it seems to me that the "incident" took Roger. He was probably out drinking beer, stopped on the way, took out the key, and the "incident" blew over the van and killed him.

The extent of his decomposition is a valid point.

He looked to me rather like a mummy: dried up, but still with remnants of flesh - cartilidge and sinew, as somebody said - holding him together. I'm no expert, but surely a body would only decompose like that in a hot, dry climate?
Once you introduce humidity everything would rapidly rot away - remember the marshall when they dug him up after only a few days? Plus you have boars, polar bears, etc, as well as smaller animals, rats, insects, who would soon dispose of any fleshy parts.

So .... is this a deliberate hint that the body may have died and decomposed under unusual circumstances? Or just artistic licence?

Forgot about the marshal...I think that Roger is a hint that something is unusual about the decomp of the dead. It seems that Adam and Eve are going to be a huge deal for the show, so perhaps Roger is a device that will help explain Adam and Eve. Perhaps, the reason that A&E and Roger have decomposed in such an unusual way is due to the "sickness" or the incident. Maybe, seeing the marshal decomp so quickly was a hint that something had happened to A&E to make them rot so slowly. If the "sickness" or the incident was the reason that Roger and A&E are mummifying rather than rotting, prehaps that is also the explanation why nobody looked for him.

well i am guessing Roger had to be at least 21 or had a very good fake ID! :)

So .... is this a deliberate hint that the body may have died and decomposed under unusual circumstances?

That's a good point, like why a 26 year old woman would have the uterus of a 70 year old...