Did anyone catch what the cards were that the lady turned over?

I noticed two of the cards that were shown:

The Tower (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Tower_%28Tarot_card%29)

Death (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_%28Tarot_card%29)

Of course the deck was probably stacked, so it most likely is not significant. But still, I don't think the fortune teller lady read the Death card very accurately...

Why don't you think it was read accurately?

From my understanding, and I could be totally wrong here. The Death card doesn't necessarily mean "death". I think it's just another way of saying that there is misfortune.

So..if I'm right about that, then yes it would make sense that she didn't "read it right". Besides, we know now that Hugo's Dad put her up to it, so in that case, it would really matter what card she flipped over I guess, as long as she said what Cheech wanted her to say.

We could sure use some screencaps of the cards...if any kind souls can oblige. :)

It seems to me that the set-up was to get Hurley convinced she was into him being cursed so she could do her magic and lift it. What the cards usually mean in a Tarot reading would be irrelevant. When someone unfamiliar with Tarot sees the Death card it can be pretty scary, which is just the reaction they were looking for to get Hugo's buy in.

The death card in tarot doesn't actually mean death. it means a significant change will or has taken place.

It seems to me that the set-up was to get Hurley convinced she was into him being cursed so she could do her magic and lift it. What the cards usually mean in a Tarot reading would be irrelevant. When someone unfamiliar with Tarot sees the Death card it can be pretty scary, which is just the reaction they were looking for to get Hugo's buy in.

Yeah, I agree with you about that. But you know how these things are in Lost... I mean, knowing what those Tarot cards were just MIGHT come in handy some time... Who knows? Still, it would be nice to know...:undecide:

The other card was "Six of Swords"

It also makes a difference whether the card was faced up or down. I don't remember which it was in the episode.

The fact that the fortune teller was put up to "cure" the curse by Hurley's dad makes me think the reading isn't of much significance, however.

From my understanding, and I could be totally wrong here. The Death card doesn't necessarily mean "death". I think it's just another way of saying that there is misfortune.

So..if I'm right about that, then yes it would make sense that she didn't "read it right". Besides, we know now that Hugo's Dad put her up to it, so in that case, it would really matter what card she flipped over I guess, as long as she said what Cheech wanted her to say.

Actually, death doesn't signify misfortune as much as drastic change. A passage, an end of one journey and a beginning of the other. It's 'negative' in the fact that in order for the new phase to begin, you must leave behind the old, but it isn't truely a bad card. The Hanged Man is more negative than Death, IMHO. The Hanged Man represents being trapped, unable or unwilling to move forward or to go back, stuck in limbo.

The Tower, however, is pretty negative. The Tower is represented in most decks by a tower being struck by lightening and shattering. It sigifies chaos and termoil.

On a unrelated to lost note, I'm not a big mystic believer, but my sister started collecting decks a while back and I started getting a few and learning how to do readings. I've never put a huge amount into the readings as being real predictors of anything.

Then about two years ago, after some medical and emotional problems and being too stubborn to drop my classes, I did abysmal and got dropped by my college. I went in to talk to the dean, I was hoping because of the problems I'd be able to reverse the decision... didn't happen, though I did get back in through readmission the next year since they noted in my file about it at the interview.

Anyway, the day of the meeting I ended up doing a three card reading (past, present, future) before I left to go get the bus. I don't recall what the past card was, but for present, I got the hanged man, which freaked me out since basically, I was in limbo until I could find out if they'd be willing to reverse the decision. Then turned the future card and got the tower. A few hours later, I knew they were going to drop me, and I'd need to wait till the next year to reapply. Once again, I was rather freaked out. I do believe in coincidences, but it seemed rather extreme for the situation I was in to get those cards.
100%
The other card was "Six of Swords"


The journey card-- leaving worries behind... I think, LOL, I should probably double check, I suck with minor arcana.

I've studied the Tarot for several years now, although I'm certainly not a master of it by any means. Here's my interpretation of the cards:

The first card looked like either the Tower or the Wheel of Fortune. I couldn't catch which one and I already loaned out my tape. I will go over both just in case. The Tower (XIV - Major Arcana) is one of the most negative cards in the deck, especially when Reversed. The Tower stands for pride, disaster, and ruin. This card might make sense when related to Hurley's recent past because his lottery winnings have brought nothing but diasaster and ruin. If the reading is true or false, the meaning would be the same and work for both scenarios.

However, if it was the Wheel of Fortune (X - Major Arcana), this signifies a turning of fate and fortune. Hurley's fortune was greatly increased when he won the lottery, of course, but this reading was done AFTER the fact. Therefore, this card is more likely to signify the turning of good fortune to bad luck. Obviously, the card suits the purpose of the reading and also fits into Hurley's string of unfortunate incidents.

The second card was (I think) the Six of Swords. This card represents a journey, often over water as the card pictures. If the reading was true, this card would definitely foreshadow Hurley's arrival on the island because the Six of Swords following the Wheel of Fortune would mean that the trip was made to escape his bad fortune. However, if the deck was rigged (which would be hard considering he DID cut it), the Six of Swords could stand for his trip to Australia only. Why is this important in the reading, and why wouldn't the psychic have chosen a different card? Because of the one following it!

The last card was Death (non-Reversed). Death generally stands for a transition to another phase. While the Death card CAN mean physical death, it generally refers to other forms of death like the loss of a career or possibly the loss of a loved one. This card, when used in previous Rider-Waite readings, has been known to mean fatality or disaster as well. Now, if the reading was true, Death would represent Hurley's future being bleak and possibly filled with the loss of much that he holds dear. It could also signify a breakthrough to a better understanding of the world around him at the cost of something else. However, if the reading was false, Death would likely just be a deterrant to keep Hurley from going to Australia. If the trip over water leads to death, it would probably put second thoughts into Hurley's mind about going on that flight, which would be the psychic's goal.

Those are just my personal views on the cards. If I got one of the cards wrong, please let me know and I'll see what I can come up with from there. As for myself, I believe that the psychic intended to fake the reading but actually got dealt true cards! This happened with Claire and her psychic, so the pattern of a phony reading turning true would fit in perfectly here as well.

- Another Other

The Tower (XIV - Major Arcana) is one of the most negative cards in the deck, especially when Reversed. The Tower stands for pride, disaster, and ruin.

Almost, but not quite.

The tower card is a card of sudden happening, the foundation of your belief system being taken away, or an unexpected event, usually very suddenly. It all depends what cards are around it to say whether it is good or bad. It's all subjective anyway when you read the tarot, as the same events happening to different people will have different reactions. It's kind of a rebirth card, but more violent.

The death card means rebirth, or end and start of a cycle. In conjunction with the tower card it means it will happen suddenly, or has begun already, the foundations of your old life being swept away. It's pointless trying to fight events as it's all in place already. The six of swords can also mean leaving things behind, and as swords are an air element this corresponds to intellect. It is also another card of change, but more to do with mental balance.

*edit* looking at the screenshots, this seems to be the significator. There is also the ace of wands in there, which again is about new beginnings. It can also signify being true to yourself and trusting your own intuition, which would fit in quite well with Hurley.

The tower card is a card of sudden happening, the foundation of your belief system being taken away, or an unexpected event, usually very suddenly. It all depends what cards are around it to say whether it is good or bad. It's all subjective anyway when you read the tarot, as the same events happening to different people will have different reactions. It's kind of a rebirth card, but more violent.

The death card means rebirth, or end and start of a cycle. In conjunction with the tower card it means it will happen suddenly, or has begun already, the foundations of your old life being swept away. It's pointless trying to fight events as it's all in place already. The six of swords can also mean leaving things behind, and as swords are an air element this corresponds to intellect. It is also another card of change, but more to do with mental balance.

*edit* looking at the screenshots, this seems to be the significator. There is also the ace of wands in there, which again is about new beginnings. It can also signify being true to yourself and trusting your own intuition, which would fit in quite well with Hurley.

I think your analysis of the cards is right on the money, SpaceHermit.

Does anyone remember the episode in The Simpsons called "Lisa's Wedding"? The Simpsons go to a medieval renaissance fair, and Lisa has a fortune teller read Tarot cards for her. Here's some of the transcript from that episode:


Lisa chases the rabbit off into the forest, laughing at first, but soon
the woods close in around her, and she looks frightened. She comes upon
a tent, lit inside. She pulls back the opening flap to reveal a woman
dressed like a gypsy sitting at a table, candles burning all around her.

Woman: I've been waiting for you, Lisa.
Lisa: [gasps] How did you know my name?
Woman: Your nametag. ["Hi, I'm Lady Lisa"] Would you like to know your
future?
Lisa: Heh, sorry, I don't believe in fortune telling. I should go.
Woman: What's your hurry? Bart and Maggie and Marge are at the joust,
and Homer is heckling the puppet show.
Lisa: [gasps] Wow, you _can_ see into the...present.
Woman: Now we'll see what the future holds.
[turns over a card from what looks like a Tarot deck]
Lisa: [gulps] The "Death" card?
Woman: No, that's good: it means transition, change.
Lisa: [relieved] Oh.
[the woman turns over another card]
Lisa: Oh, that's cute.
Woman: [gasps] "The Happy Squirel"!
Lisa: [timid] That's bad?
Woman: Possibly. The cards are vague and mysterious.


So, just be glad Hurley didn't get The Happy Squirrel Card! Yipes! :p

When I saw the Tower card, I thought of Stephen King's Dark Tower series...

Since the whole thing was put on by Cheech to talk Hugo out of the "curse", couldn't the Tower card simply be yet another tip 'o' the hat to SK?

Could be. Hopefully Hurley won't be eclipsed in the say way Roland was.

I couldn't see all the cards in the episode, but I think we were shown the ones we needed to see. I'm not sure how the tarot reader could have stacked the deck.

But there again, I've always been crap at card tricks.

We could sure use some screencaps of the cards...if any kind souls can oblige. :)


First card -- http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage.php?album=1258&pos=515
[/URL]
Second card -- [URL]http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage.php?album=1258&pos=525 (http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage.php?album=1258&pos=525)


There were no other card screen-shots that I could find.


D/

First card -- http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage.php?album=1258&pos=515

Second card -- http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage.php?album=1258&pos=525


There were no other card screen-shots that I could find.


D/
Actually, those are the second and the third cards. The first card drawn, is not shown. The only instance you can see the first card is when she is holding Hurley's hands (you see on the table all the opened cards). I don't have an HD copy, so I don't see it clearly.

You are all missing something here. As much as it was set up a critical thing happened. HURLEY cut the cards HIMSELF. And she stacked them properly. That means that he was the decider of where she stared from. That is a critical step in any good reading, that the person being read is the one that cuts the cards. So in as much as it was a set up, it was also done properly. I find that to be very interesting. She read the cards as what they meant to her, as the meanings can and do have their own slight variations depending on the reader.

I find it interesting that those cards came out for him when he was the controller of the cut.

i think the real question with the cards is if Claire got the same ones - didn't Claire get a reading with cards also?

You are all missing something here. As much as it was set up a critical thing happened. HURLEY cut the cards HIMSELF. And she stacked them properly. That means that he was the decider of where she stared from. That is a critical step in any good reading, that the person being read is the one that cuts the cards. So in as much as it was a set up, it was also done properly. I find that to be very interesting. She read the cards as what they meant to her, as the meanings can and do have their own slight variations depending on the reader.

I find it interesting that those cards came out for him when he was the controller of the cut.

Man, this is a tough call because if someone is real good at card tricks, they can slip cards into a cut after it's been made - or a number of other slight-of-hand tricks that will place the cards they want where they want them to be in the deck. So it is possible that the fortune teller lady did something like this.

But then on the other hand, maybe not. Just like you suggested, maybe she just figured that no matter what cards turned up, that she would make the reading come out the way she wanted it to - predicting that Hurley was cursed.

It's anyone's guess at this point, I think.

... and that Tower card? "A traumatic event that happens out of the blue and changes your life forever." The image? The Tower of Babel: A tower, struck by a lightning bolt. The top is broken off and falling, flames leap from the windows, sometimes people are shown jumping off to their deaths. On the day after 9/11, I was hanging out with all the folks in my aprtment building and decided to do a general reading. First card up? you guessed it.

Wow, that's pretty awesome.

The death card in tarot doesn't actually mean death. it means a significant change will or has taken place.Everything is going to change.

Everything is going to change.
Do you know something we don't?

I think that both the Death and the Tower cards (along with the Six of Swords) all point to that interpretation that Väinämoinen gave: that everything is going to change.

Do you know something we don't?That's what Jin said to Hurley in his dream.

Just because the psychic was set up by David Reyes does *not* mean the cards were without meaning. There *were* two deaths on The Island for Hurley - the death of Dave (his "possessing spirit," so to speak) and the death of Libby. Neither were "caused" by Hugo or relevant to "the curse," yet both events were highly significant to him. The death of Dave signified one aspect of Hurley's healing. His love for Libby signified another.

Also, while this may not be a "traditional" tarot interpretation, one significant point in this episode was Hurley helping Charlie to face Charlie's own fear about death.