to change his stripes. I think he regrets not saying "I'm sorry" as they approached camp. When he looked at Jin and Sun, and Charlie and Claire, I felt like although the automatic wall went up, and his conditioned response seemed to rear its ugly head ("I don't need anyone") he was wishing Kate was there with him. I think Kate is going to be the catalyst to finally make him break some of that wall down, as least as much as someone like Sawyer can. His character is being set up for a major psychological shift. Least that's what I hope ;)

Well I don't know if it was the booze, or just the fact that he was happy to be back, but did you notice just how...friendly...he was to everyone? Excluding his ranting about his whiskey and porn and such.

He has already had a change in his personality. He seemed to be more relaxed, friendly, chipper....whatever.

It does kind of give hope that he will change for the sake of obtaining Kate.

Here's hoping!

I just hope that he decides to go after her and help her rescue Jack. At this point I don't think that he is even aware that she has left without him.

I tend to agree with you, although i'm growing very weery of the "now that we're married let's act like we hate each other" dance that sawyer and kate are doing.
here's hoping it works out.

I was happy when there was the apparent conclusion to the whole love triangle thing. I really hope that when he finds out that Kate has left without telling him that he will go after her and stop being such a stupid moron...

I just hope that he decides to go after her and help her rescue Jack. At this point I don't think that he is even aware that she has left without him.

I was thinking the same thing, that he has no idea she even left. Brave woman, with the monster and all...

Wonder what he'll do when he finds out. "Now why would you go and do a stupid thing like that?!"

Well, his whole "New sheriff in town" thing didn't last too long last Season, he's probably figuring it won't impress anyone this time either.

It's pretty hard to imagine Sawyer reverting to tendencies exhibited in S1-S2 at this point.

Well I don't know if it was the booze, or just the fact that he was happy to be back, but did you notice just how...friendly...he was to everyone? Excluding his ranting about his whiskey and porn and such.

He has already had a change in his personality. He seemed to be more relaxed, friendly, chipper....whatever.

It does kind of give hope that he will change for the sake of obtaining Kate.

Here's hoping!

And all I have to say about that is... KILL IT!

Sorry. But, man... his character is a sad, lame joke these days.

Loved Sawyer in tis episode. I think he is better than ever.

I think Sawyer is getting there. He's quite stubborn! He needs a push! If Hurley and Jin can get him to loosen up and help, I'm sure anyone else can too! I have a feeling Sawyer will be joining in on the action when, or if he finds out Kate had left! He would do anything for her.

He doesn't know where they are. So he won't be going after them. He just has to wait and hope she comes back. And once she does, he doesn't change his mind and push her away again.

After all they'd been through. . .

I'm really having a hard time dealing with character development on this show. Seems whenever someone has any, TPTB immediately writes it away. :mad:

I don't like the fact that even before Sawyer and Kate get back to the beach they are becoming distant with each other. I know the same kind of thing happens in alot of people's lives but I'm just disappointed. I do think Kate has strong feelings for Sawyer, but the fact that she is going after Jack put a strain on Kate and Sawyer's relationship. I do think that he regrets acting kind of cold to kate, and I'm hoping that he gets his butt up and goes looking for her in the jungle and helps her to go after Jack. Am I wishing for too much?!

Sawyer should have been motivated right from the start to go back and rescue Jack. That was part of his line of reasoning to Kate when she wanted to turn back the boat to go right back to Hydra Island - what could two of them with a gun w/ no ammo do?
Now that they're back for reinforcements, he should have remembered that it was Jack's intervention while Pickett had a gun to Sawyer's head that saved his butt. I don't see why petty jealousy over Kate's display of emotion to Jack should interfere with wanting to save him. He had shown in 3Minutes that he was bigger than that by reaching out to Jack in friendship even when he though Jack and Kate had ... whatever.

Here's my crazy theory:

Sawyer will stay quite and pretend like he doesn't care about Kate's location, then after a few days go by he'll ask someone where she is, at which point he'll learn she went off with Locke and Sayid to go rescue Jack.

Then, somepoint later, we'll see the rescue party in trouble, and Sawyer and Carl will swoop in to the rescue.

I don't really think this is likely but it's possible. It seems Sawyers still pretending to have a rough exterior, and I think Carl will be important to the show sooner rather than later.

I also think we may run into a situation where Jack and/or Alex doesn't want to leave with the rescue party. I can certainly see Jack changing his mind about the others, and even though Alex seems like she wants to leave, if some crazy lady from the Jungle comes and says she's your true mom, she may be more inclined to run towards whats safe and familiar.

Sawyer should have been motivated right from the start to go back and rescue Jack. That was part of his line of reasoning to Kate when she wanted to turn back the boat to go right back to Hydra Island - what could two of them with a gun w/ no ammo do?
Now that they're back for reinforcements, he should have remembered that it was Jack's intervention while Pickett had a gun to Sawyer's head that saved his butt. I don't see why petty jealousy over Kate's display of emotion to Jack should interfere with wanting to save him. He had shown in 3Minutes that he was bigger than that by reaching out to Jack in friendship even when he though Jack and Kate had ... whatever.


I don't think it occurred to Sawyer (or to Locke and Sayid) that Kate was going to up and run off as soon as she got back, without a night's sleep, a briefing, supplies, knives, reinforcements, a plan, etc. She was giving him the cold shoulder, so he went off on a little bonding excursion with the guys. What's so wrong with that?

I don't understand what Kate expected Sawyer to apologize for (other than letting Karl go, and that didn't seem to be what she was talking about). SHE was the one who threw a hissy fit.

I don't think it occurred to Sawyer (or to Locke and Sayid) that Kate was going to up and run off as soon as she got back, without a night's sleep, a briefing, supplies, knives, reinforcements, a plan, etc. She was giving him the cold shoulder, so he went off on a little bonding excursion with the guys. What's so wrong with that?

I, too, assumed that he planned on going back for Jack after gathering some supplies and maybe recruiting some of their buddies to help. I think it's unfair to automatically assume the worst when it comes to Sawyer. He doesn't even know she's gone, for the love of Pete. He wouldn't be sitting there drinking a beer if he did, I feel fairly certain of that. I feel he was kind of cheated of his chance to "pay back" Jack for Jack's intervention in their escape. Kate seems to be acting kind of martyrish, like "You had your chance to help rescue Jack, you didn't want to, so forget it, I'm going alone." She's being a little irrational. I know she went into the jungle alone to find Rousseau, so she didn't think she would be going to the Others' camp to get Jack alone, but she should've tried to take at least one other person with her into the jungle at night, don'cha think?

I, too, assumed that he planned on going back for Jack after gathering some supplies and maybe recruiting some of their buddies to help. I think it's unfair to automatically assume the worst when it comes to Sawyer. He doesn't even know she's gone, for the love of Pete. He wouldn't be sitting there drinking a beer if he did, I feel fairly certain of that. I feel he was kind of cheated of his chance to "pay back" Jack for Jack's intervention in their escape. Kate seems to be acting kind of martyrish, like "You had your chance to help rescue Jack, you didn't want to, so forget it, I'm going alone." She's being a little irrational. I know she went into the jungle alone to find Rousseau, so she didn't think she would be going to the Others' camp to get Jack alone, but she should've tried to take at least one other person with her into the jungle at night, don'cha think?
Well Kate is nothing if not impulsive.
Let's hope Kate & Danielle stop back at camp for supplies and then Sawyer joins up. But that does't look like what's going to happen. The spoilers show Sayid, Kate, Locke and Danielle on the rescue mission, but not Sawyer. Maybe he'll turn up as the big surprise, who knows. That would be nice.

I missed something. Please fill me in. What does "James" have to say "sorry" to Kate for? Their love story doesn't interest me much, so I guess I glossed over their proper name calling, but now I want to know.

Sorry for letting Carl go?
Sorry for not going for Jack?
Sorry for not holding her long enough after they had a sweaty interlude?
Sorry for what?

What does "James" have to say "sorry" to Kate for?

My wife asked the same question as we watching last night, and I assumed it was controlling everything they did since leaving the second island without much regard for Kate's thoughts or ideas.

Sawyer was more a part of the group last night than on any other show, I think. He helped with the van, and smiled more than I can remember the character doing for some time, which is good for the character. Perhaps being separated from the beach dwellers for so long inspired him to be more friendly.

Josh Holloway has said that he hopes is character never loses his edge, so we'll see how long this new direction lasts. ;)

I was thinking the same thing, that he has no idea she even left. Brave woman, with the monster and all...

Wonder what he'll do when he finds out. "Now why would you go and do a stupid thing like that?!"
That sounds exactly like what he would say! :)

Loved Sawyer in tis episode. I think he is better than ever.
I think the writers are letting him evolve and actually grown up and it makes for a very interesting character.

I don't like the fact that even before Sawyer and Kate get back to the beach they are becoming distant with each other. I know the same kind of thing happens in alot of people's lives but I'm just disappointed. I do think Kate has strong feelings for Sawyer, but the fact that she is going after Jack put a strain on Kate and Sawyer's relationship. I do think that he regrets acting kind of cold to kate, and I'm hoping that he gets his butt up and goes looking for her in the jungle and helps her to go after Jack. Am I wishing for too much?!

Sawyer should have been motivated right from the start to go back and rescue Jack. That was part of his line of reasoning to Kate when she wanted to turn back the boat to go right back to Hydra Island - what could two of them with a gun w/ no ammo do?
Now that they're back for reinforcements, he should have remembered that it was Jack's intervention while Pickett had a gun to Sawyer's head that saved his butt. I don't see why petty jealousy over Kate's display of emotion to Jack should interfere with wanting to save him. He had shown in 3Minutes that he was bigger than that by reaching out to Jack in friendship even when he though Jack and Kate had ... whatever.

I don't think it occurred to Sawyer (or to Locke and Sayid) that Kate was going to up and run off as soon as she got back, without a night's sleep, a briefing, supplies, knives, reinforcements, a plan, etc. She was giving him the cold shoulder, so he went off on a little bonding excursion with the guys. What's so wrong with that?

I don't understand what Kate expected Sawyer to apologize for (other than letting Karl go, and that didn't seem to be what she was talking about). SHE was the one who threw a hissy fit.

I missed something. Please fill me in. What does "James" have to say "sorry" to Kate for? Their love story doesn't interest me much, so I guess I glossed over their proper name calling, but now I want to know.

Sorry for letting Carl go?
Sorry for not going for Jack?
Sorry for not holding her long enough after they had a sweaty interlude?
Sorry for what?

I'm glad I'm not the only one lost in this reasoning. After a lot of thought, I thought maybe since Kate can't run away physically like she always does when things get emotional, she created a crisis between her and Sawyer in order to get some distance. THEN, she asked for an apology and I was lost again. I think some down time for them both would be a good idea. I never ever wanted them to become the Island's Ozzie and Harriet but I didn't want them to melt away from each other either. It would have been nice for Sawyer to share the van story with her at the end of the day or her to tell him what had happened at camp while they were gone. I don't even think that Kate noticed that Jack was kept in better surroundings than she and Sawyer were. Someone needs to snap her out of it before she gets herself or someone else hurt or killed.

Here's my crazy theory... I also think we may run into a situation where Jack and/or Alex doesn't want to leave with the rescue party. I can certainly see Jack changing his mind about the others, and even though Alex seems like she wants to leave, if some crazy lady from the Jungle comes and says she's your true mom, she may be more inclined to run towards whats safe and familiar.

This made me laugh! Thanks! :biggrin: Crazy lady...versus Machiavelli [sic]! She may decide that she needs to be an orphan! Seriously, I like the character Danielle and have always felt tremendous compassion for what she said she's gone through. However, since rewatching S2 in the summer, I have wondered if she's not been as truthful as everyone assumes. If that's the case, then she probably already knows Alex is her daughter. Who nows?!! :shrug:

Well I don't know if it was the booze, or just the fact that he was happy to be back, but did you notice just how...friendly...he was to everyone? Excluding his ranting about his whiskey and porn and such.

He has already had a change in his personality. He seemed to be more relaxed, friendly, chipper....whatever.

It does kind of give hope that he will change for the sake of obtaining Kate.

Here's hoping!
well of course he is in a better mood. He just got some from the island hottie. After scoring that and Ana Lucia he has got to be feeling better about life...

You know, in considering this further, I honestly don't think Sawyer is going to change. He may feel slightly jealous by looking at Charlie/Claire and Sun/Jin, but you have to remember that his primary personality trait is self-punishment. He deliberately distances himself from others, which is why he put up a wall to Kate.

Honestly don't think he'll change much in this regard, at least not until season 4.

Well, I think he's being daft! The chick obviously chose him over Jack; she loves him. They had a spat, which couples do from time to time; she gave him a GIANT clue on what he should do to fix things between them, and he acted like a git. Why can't he try and work on their relationship a little?

I just hope he isn't feeling jealous of Kate's concern AS A FRIEND for 'Doc'. That would just regress things all over again. Besides, he was being rather dim, in sending Karl away. As Kate rightly said, all Ben wanted was Karl away from Alex; he wasn't a 'target'. Not after they'd been allowed to escape! Bet Sawyer gets all ticked off when he realizes Kate's gone off to get Jack. That may just complicate matters between them further, which is a real pity because I think they're a potentially good couple, and it's high time they get their act together!

I think he's more hurt and at loose ends because Kate took off WITHOUT him.

But I could see him picking a fight with Kate as soon as she got back.

She only took off without him because he made it rather clear he wasn't interested in going back for Jack. Again, I can see his POV; it would have been risky and foolish to turn the boat around and head back at that point. But after, during their trek through the island, he reiterated the same point, and I can see why Kate would feel he wasn't up for another jaunt through the jungle. OTOH, I thought there was a genuine flicker of remorse in Sawyer's eyes when he told Hurley about how Jack was still with the Others. He seemed a little ashamed, in fact... although I could be wrong. But he doesn't hate Jack anyway; at least, if you keep S2's, 'you're the closest thing I got to a friend, Doc' conversation in mind.

And you're right, LostMyMarbles: they'll definitely have a tiff whenever Kate gets back to the camp.

I think it's still an open question whether Sawyer believed that it would ALWAYS be too risky for the Lostaways to mount a Jack-rescue, or whether he simply believed it would be crazy and irrational for Kate to waltz back into the heart of Otherland alone and unarmed. He was absolutely right about the latter. But as to the former--Sawyer is realistic, but he also has plenty of revenge-against-the-Others motivation as well as respect for Jack (despite his impatience with Kate's Jack-obsession).

IS it a good idea for the Lostaways to go after Jack? Probably, it is, simply because of his value as a doctor (although that is diminishing along with his stash of medications). But there's also a huge downside--they don't know where he is, and they've come out on the losing side of other Other encounters.

I missed something. Please fill me in. What does "James" have to say "sorry" to Kate for? Their love story doesn't interest me much, so I guess I glossed over their proper name calling, but now I want to know.

Sorry for letting Carl go?
Sorry for not going for Jack?
Sorry for not holding her long enough after they had a sweaty interlude?
Sorry for what?

It is my understanding that she wants an apology because he suggested that she gave him a pity lay. That's an incredibly insulting thing to say to a woman because it suggests they give their body away like it's a comfort blanket, and he knew it would hurt her. She didn't dignify it with an answer and she wants him to apologize for saying it.

I don't think Sawyer is not going back for Jack because there's petty jealousy over Kate. Jack DID tell them not to come back...and while that may sound lame...it makes sense somewhat. If Jack was making a sacrifice to save the two of them...it would all be for naught if they went back and got themselves captured again. All that leverage would have been wasted. So going back right away would be stupid...and Jack wouldn't have appreciated it. I don't think he was against going back at all once their was a plan with a decent chance of working. But he didn't want to turn around and go back right away...where would that leave them?

Kate just took off without really thinking things through...putting herself in danger again...that wasn't the smartest thing to do. And I think part of that was that her and Sawyer were fighting. If they were on good terms she may have listened to reason...sat down and formulated a proper plan with more involvement from everyone.

I think he (Sawyer/James) regrets not saying "I'm sorry" as they approached camp. When he looked at Jin and Sun, and Charlie and Claire, I felt like although the automatic wall went up, and his conditioned response seemed to rear its ugly head

I think this regret was further illustrated when Sawyer was teaching Jin the 3 phrases every woman needs to hear, "I'm sorry" being one of them.

Let's also look at Jack's motivation. Without Sawyer and Kate around the Others have less leverage over him. Plus Jack had thought that Ben might keep his word about getting Jack home. Jack now knows that Juliet is having a similar discussion/issue with Ben about being released to go home.

Jack saved a fellow doctor (Juliet) - one who is in a similar(ish) fix to him.

Sawyer is once again wallowing in self-pity - yes, he accused Kate of giving him a pity-lay - he acts like he thinks he's a loser and that Kate's heart has really been won by Jack.

Meanwhile Kate is on a redemption track - for the first time she is not running away, she is now running back - to rescue Jack !

Jack thinks that Kate has given her heart to Sawyer. Sawyer thinks he's second best. Kate's now on a mission - having been insulted by Sawyer - she will change the habit of a lifetime and not run from Jack too.

If/when Kate finds Jack, he may have hooked up with Juliet. Kate may be spurned by Jack, and when she returns to Sawyer (tail between her legs), Sawyer will reject her too for having run off!