Apparently, from other Hurley-centric episodes and also TTID, it seems there was a legit curse attached to Hurley. Here''s the rub, was Hurley's curse removed after tonight's episode? Or was there even such a curse to begin with.

To me, so many crazy things happened around Hurley, it had to be a Hurley-curse :P

I guess that depends on whether or not the curse was always only in his head and the bad things that happened were coincidence. In that case, I'd say his curse was likely broken.

If there really is something about those numbers, then who knows.

I don't see any strong evidence that Hurley's curse is still operative after flight 815 crashed. Sure, some bad things are happening to the losties (just ask Boone, Shannon, A-L, Libby, Eko, and Sceve), but meteors aren't crashing into the beach camp, fires aren't breaking out (unless Charlie sets them) and killing people, and so on, in the dramatic way things would happen one after another in Hurley's pre-island life.

I don't see any strong evidence that Hurley's curse is still operative after flight 815 crashed. Sure, some bad things are happening to the losties (just ask Boone, Shannon, A-L, Libby, Eko, and Sceve), but meteors aren't crashing into the beach camp, fires aren't breaking out (unless Charlie sets them) and killing people, and so on, in the dramatic way things would happen one after another in Hurley's pre-island life.

That's an interesting observation. I never thought of a second-chance being applied to Hurley because I linked second-chance to the murderers, torturers, and con-men. So perhaps it's the same case with Hurley.

But then again, weird stuff happens on the Island all the time, so could Hurley be the source? (j/k)

I think a lot of it has to do with what you BELIEVE.

And if Hurley believes the curse is lifited, than it is. (by the bus turning over, maybe that was his sign of his changed luck. his father did tell him you make your own luck...)

Oh, yeah!

Let me preface this by saying that this is just my opinion and not anything factual..... Curses to begin with are words that are written, spoken or thought. The person on the receiving end of those words can belive them or not. It's the BELIEF of the curse that makes it real.

Since Hurley has lived his entire life thinking he's cursed, he drew negativity his way. ( In spectacular fashion mind you ) Now that the bus is up and running , Hurley has belief that his curse is lifted....so for Hurley....yes the curse is gone. It's not up to him if negative things continue to happen to him on this particular island. It's up to the island..... dun dun dunnnnnnnnnn.....

Hurley was never cursed by anyone or anything other than himself. He was surrounded by terrible, unfortunate events and chose to shoulder them himself. And like Finnster said above, by believing that he's cursed, he will be cursed. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy... he sees himself as cursed so he's surrounding himself with negative energy (those that heard of "The Secret" realize this isn't good to do - really common sense stuff though...)

I think Hurley suffers from perhaps the world's largest case of Catholic guilt.

There was a subtle clue at all this in the episode.... The skeltal arm with the rabbit foot. Was the rabbit foot good luck for that poor schnook? Nope, doesn't appear to be..

I think the lesson is... tread lightly at believing in curses, you could end up cursing yourself. So yes, by Hurley believing the curse is gone, it will be gone.

Hurley was never cursed by anyone or anything other than himself. He was surrounded by terrible, unfortunate events and chose to shoulder them himself. And like Finnster said above, by believing that he's cursed, he will be cursed. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy... he sees himself as cursed so he's surrounding himself with negative energy (those that heard of "The Secret" realize this isn't good to do - really common sense stuff though...)

I think Hurley suffers from perhaps the world's largest case of Catholic guilt.

There was a subtle clue at all this in the episode.... The skeltal arm with the rabbit foot. Was the rabbit foot good luck for that poor schnook? Nope, doesn't appear to be..

I think the lesson is... tread lightly at believing in curses, you could end up cursing yourself. So yes, by Hurley believing the curse is gone, it will be gone.


Wasn't very good luck for the rabbit either. (Sorry I couldn't resist):biggrin:

I don't think Hurley was ever cursed. I don't deny all the crazy things that happened to him!! However I never really believe in curses so that's just my opinion. He definitely was great in this episode. I really like the fact that he brang Charlie along to ride down in the car with him. It kind of proves the make your own luck theory. I think it helped Charlie out too. I love that about Hurley he's always thinking of other people. I think he is the most unselfish person on the island.

Wasn't very good luck for the rabbit either. (Sorry I couldn't resist):biggrin:
funny... wanders the comedian... The 7:30 show's different from the 9:30 show, folks... Don't forget to tip your servers... :biggrin:

I have to wonder if the writers threw in the "break the curse with the van" scene so we'd stop asking about the numbers - telling us they mean nothing. Either that, or the other extreme of reminding us about them so we can find out even more soon!

I don't see any strong evidence that Hurley's curse is still operative after flight 815 crashed. Sure, some bad things are happening to the losties (just ask Boone, Shannon, A-L, Libby, Eko, and Sceve), but meteors aren't crashing into the beach camp, fires aren't breaking out (unless Charlie sets them) and killing people, and so on, in the dramatic way things would happen one after another in Hurley's pre-island life.

Plus, bad things happened to the Losties long before the crash. Unless Hurley's curse works retroactive as well...

Since Hurley has lived his entire life thinking he's cursed

If by "His entire life", you mean the year since he won the lottery...

I think the whole point of Hurley's curse culminated when Flight 815 crashed. Like others on here, I don't believe that Hurley has been cursed since he landed on the island.

The culmination of his curse just brought him closer to the numbers and figuring out what their purpose is and what they all mean. I think this episode was about Hurley's self belief, and believing that the curse was over. Thinking he was cursed can't do all that much for a person's self confidence and self belief.

Apparently, from other Hurley-centric episodes and also TTID, it seems there was a legit curse attached to Hurley. Here''s the rub, was Hurley's curse removed after tonight's episode? Or was there even such a curse to begin with.

To me, so many crazy things happened around Hurley, it had to be a Hurley-curse :P

Hurley to Charlie: "Let's get this car started. Let's look death in the face and say...whatever, man". "If we don't die, then we win".

They won. Hurley finally took his father's advice and tried to "make his own luck". He chose self determination over fatalism and broke the curse. Charlie did so as well and broke Desmond's 'death sentence' that was making him miserable lately.

Well if people believe the island cured Locke and Rose then why couldn't it cure Hurley of his curse? :p

I don't think Hurley was cursed, however his belief that he was lead to selective perception on his part. He saw & remembered the bad events and overlooked or forgot the good ones. I think in this episode he shifted his perspective and cured himself of being "cursed".

... was Hurley's curse removed after tonight's episode? Or was there even such a curse to begin with.

I think that Hurley managed to remove the curse this ep. Mostly because curses work because someone thinks they do. I think (hope!) he feels like he's beaten the curse, so now it'll no longer be attached to him (or, depending upon your beliefs, his kharma).

Was there a curse to begin with? I don't think so, but of course it's hard to tell. It could just be that some of those things would've happened even if he didn't win the money.

It saddened me when Hugo said, "And your best friend runs off with your girl..."

Anyway, I hope that Hurley no longer feels cursed.
100%
I don't think Hurley was cursed, however his belief that he was lead to selective perception on his part. He saw & remembered the bad events and overlooked or forgot the good ones. I think in this episode he shifted his perspective and cured himself of being "cursed".

Yes, that's what I wanted to say! Selective perception, like the guy on NUMB3RS says.

Well if people believe the island cured Locke and Rose then why couldn't it cure Hurley of his curse? :p

I don't think Hurley was cursed, however his belief that he was lead to selective perception on his part. He saw & remembered the bad events and overlooked or forgot the good ones. I think in this episode he shifted his perspective and cured himself of being "cursed".

I do believe that he was cursed, only because of that meteor falling on mr. cluck's, the straw that broke the horse's back. And the numbers...I can buy that maybe his curse is gone now, but I really want an explanation of those numbers on the actual show.

People can say "Oh, I think curses are just in people's minds", but a lot of weird things happen on Lost, so it's entirely plausible that curses are real too.

I think that the writers can't just write-off the curse because they made a HUGE deal of the numbers in the first season, even to the point where they had them constantly reappearing in his flashback where he's running through the Australian airport.

In the universe of Lost, all of the facts point to the numbers being cursed - since that's all we've ever heard about them, and to just pretend that it was all in his head is making it too easy for the writers to pretend that they were never planning on going in any other direction where the numbers actually are SOMETHING.

I think everyone should look closely again at this episode. Guys, a meteor came down and struck Tricia dead only moments after Hurley suspected she was about to die!!! Someone please show me a news clip of the last time a meteor struck someone dead in the middle of the day in a chicken restaurant. His priest was struck by lightning at the funeral. His house burned down. He won the lottery. His numbers are everywhere, even on the sticks of dynamite before they blew open the hatch. The meteor was almost as if the writers were saying to us, "we know you all don't beleive in the curse or the numbers, so let's show them something that can not ever just be chalked up to coincidence. Let's make it as plain as day that something supernatural is going on with Hurley.....therefore......the meteor.

Sorry, but I think Hurley might have forgotten a vital part of his curse. People around Hurley get hurt or killed. Hurley himself never gets a scratch!!

Hurleys curse protects him. It means he can cross the rope bridge without it collapsing. It means when Locke throws a knife at him it hits his canteen. So maybe it was this part of Hurleys curse that allowed him to start the van and miss the rocks. I can't help thinking that if Charlie had been alone in the van it would have crashed and burned.

I think the lesson is... tread lightly at believing in curses, you could end up cursing yourself. So yes, by Hurley believing the curse is gone, it will be gone.

Don't be too sure this is the end of this. It sure would be nice if this is all it would take to remove a curse. Remember this is not Hurley's curse. The numbers are cursed. Even the island knows that!:cool:

[img=http://imageshack.us/thumbnmail.png] (http://img108.imageshack.us/my.php?image=180pxsoccergirls557af80yw9.png)

Sorry, but I think Hurley might have forgotten a vital part of his curse. People around Hurley get hurt or killed. Hurley himself never gets a scratch!!

Hurleys curse protects him. It means he can cross the rope bridge without it collapsing. It means when Locke throws a knife at him it hits his canteen. So maybe it was this part of Hurleys curse that allowed him to start the van and miss the rocks. I can't help thinking that if Charlie had been alone in the van it would have crashed and burned.

Now that is an interesting little tid bit I never thought of....sheesh and I thought I thought of everything....
anyways...that is indeed very possible...

Plus, bad things happened to the Losties long before the crash. Unless Hurley's curse works retroactive as well...
If by "His entire life", you mean the year since he won the lottery...Hurley had more than his share of bad luck before winning the lottery. His father left the family, he was involved in a balcony accident that left him feeling guilty over fatalities & he was in the mental ward as a patient. Maybe his luck has gotten better since he found the numbers? Not worse as in from a curse.

I think that Hurley managed to remove the curse this ep. Mostly because curses work because someone thinks they do. I think (hope!) he feels like he's beaten the curse, so now it'll no longer be attached to him (or, depending upon your beliefs, his kharma).

Was there a curse to begin with? I don't think so, but of course it's hard to tell. It could just be that some of those things would've happened even if he didn't win the money.

It saddened me when Hugo said, "And your best friend runs off with your girl..."

Anyway, I hope that Hurley no longer feels cursed.
100%Ditto!:biggrin:

I think everyone should look closely again at this episode. Guys, a meteor came down and struck Tricia dead only moments after Hurley suspected she was about to die!!! Someone please show me a news clip of the last time a meteor struck someone dead in the middle of the day in a chicken restaurant........ The meteor was almost as if the writers were saying to us, "we know you all don't believe in the curse or the numbers, so let's show them something that can not ever just be chalked up to coincidence. Let's make it as plain as day that something supernatural is going on with Hurley.....therefore......the meteor.Lets see since Hurley lives in TV land can we count the space debris killing the girl in "Dead Like Me" as a similar incident?:confused: OK when Desmond supposedly "predicts" an event (including a death that has not yet occurred) people cry he has psychic powers - when Hurley predicts an incident people cry look he's really cursed? :eek: Perhaps Tanaka died because she entered the building before the ribbon was cut - she thus brought on her own bad luck. Meanwhile the person closest to Hurley, his ex-boss, did not enter the building and lived. Good luck brought to him by Hurley/:biggrin: The priest at the funeral was struck by lightning but the funeral party standing near Hurley was spared. His house burned down but it happened before his mother moved in thus she was saved. A plane breaks apart in mid air and instead of a normal totally fatal accident, those in Hurley's section survive. Locke throws a knife and instead of becoming a person who killed one of his fellow castaways, he hits a canteen Hurley is holding. A rescue party with Hurley in it is ambushed by the enemy and instead of bullets they use tranquilizer darts. Man that Hurley just brings luck for those around him wherever he goes! ;) otherwise the number curse would have destroyed them. :cool: That's my story selective perspective and I'm sticking to it. :biggrin:

Lets see since Hurley lives in TV land can we count the space debris killing the girl in "Dead Like Me" as a similar incident?:confused: OK when Desmond supposedly "predicts" an event (including a death that has not yet occurred) people cry he has psychic powers - when Hurley predicts an incident people cry look he's really cursed? :eek: Perhaps Tanaka died because she entered the building before the ribbon was cut - she thus brought on her own bad luck. Meanwhile the person closest to Hurley, his ex-boss, did not enter the building and lived. Good luck brought to him by Hurley/:biggrin: The priest at the funeral was struck by lightning but the funeral party standing near Hurley was spared. His house burned down but it happened before his mother moved in thus she was saved. A plane breaks apart in mid air and instead of a normal totally fatal accident, those in Hurley's section survive. Locke throws a knife and instead of becoming a person who killed one of his fellow castaways, he hits a canteen Hurley is holding. A rescue party with Hurley in it is ambushed by the enemy and instead of bullets they use tranquilizer darts. Man that Hurley just brings luck for those around him wherever he goes! ;) otherwise the number curse would have destroyed them. :cool: That's my story selective perspective and I'm sticking to it. :biggrin:

I always liked Hurley...Now I know he never had the cusrse...He was a rabbit's foot...

If you think about it an analyze this a bit...Hurley found the van with the rabbit foot that Vincent had found...Hurley is the rabbit foot...:biggrin:

Hurley had more than his share of bad luck before winning the lottery. His father left the family, he was involved in a balcony accident that left him feeling guilty over fatalities & he was in the mental ward as a patient. Maybe his luck has gotten better since he found the numbers? Not worse as in from a curse.

Ditto!:biggrin:

Lets see since Hurley lives in TV land can we count the space debris killing the girl in "Dead Like Me" as a similar incident?:confused: OK when Desmond supposedly "predicts" an event (including a death that has not yet occurred) people cry he has psychic powers - when Hurley predicts an incident people cry look he's really cursed? :eek: Perhaps Tanaka died because she entered the building before the ribbon was cut - she thus brought on her own bad luck. Meanwhile the person closest to Hurley, his ex-boss, did not enter the building and lived. Good luck brought to him by Hurley/:biggrin: The priest at the funeral was struck by lightning but the funeral party standing near Hurley was spared. His house burned down but it happened before his mother moved in thus she was saved. A plane breaks apart in mid air and instead of a normal totally fatal accident, those in Hurley's section survive. Locke throws a knife and instead of becoming a person who killed one of his fellow castaways, he hits a canteen Hurley is holding. A rescue party with Hurley in it is ambushed by the enemy and instead of bullets they use tranquilizer darts. Man that Hurley just brings luck for those around him wherever he goes! ;) otherwise the number curse would have destroyed them. :cool: That's my story selective perspective and I'm sticking to it. :biggrin:

So, what you're saying is that the numbers brought Hurley good luck?

If that's the case, then that would solve the problem with the numbers, because they seem to bring good every time one enters them in the computer for every 108 minutes.

I thought, how can the numbers be cursed if they save the world every time you enter them in the computer?

Hurley to Charlie: "Let's get this car started. Let's look death in the face and say...whatever, man". "If we don't die, then we win".

They won. Hurley finally took his father's advice and tried to "make his own luck". He chose self determination over fatalism and broke the curse.

But isn't this exactly what Hurley did when he took a chance with Libby last season? He decided to forget about his bad luck, his impression of himself that he was not worthy on a person/physical level and on a "luck" level. (I hope you know what I mean. I'm not articulating that very well.) And for a while, before she got plugged by Michael (grrrr), he seemed to be right. Their relationship was developing well. It appeared his curse was over. That happiness lasted a lot longer than the joyride, so why would the joyride be a more significant event? Simply because it is the most recent?
I'm not convinced this event in the van signifies the start or end to anything. Maybe it's merely something that went well, or perhaps Hurley's tendency to attract bad events was mitigated by the presence of the other three. Just ideas to consider.

Hurleys curse protects him. It means he can cross the rope bridge without it collapsing. It means when Locke throws a knife at him it hits his canteen. So maybe it was this part of Hurleys curse that allowed him to start the van and miss the rocks. I can't help thinking that if Charlie had been alone in the van it would have crashed and burned.I love this concept, Captain... Hurley is the good luck charm who thinks he's cursed. How very ironic, yet brilliant. Hurley always sees his glass half-full, yet it runneth over... Good way to look at it from another "perspective".

ETA:
I'm going out on a limb here, but now it appears that Hurley has resolved this and considers the curse gone. We all know what happens when Losties resolve issues.....

.....So could Hurley be the next to die?

OH NO!!!!!

Hurley cant die!!!! In that way perhaps the numbers are bad again...lol

Maybe Hurley isn't cursed but instead caused all the deaths.......dum da dum dum....Maybe that is just how he remembers the people dying not what really happened. Don't forget he was hospitalized. In reality he caused the chicken shak to blow by letting the gas on He left something burning toi set the house on fire....the priest had a heart attack....who knows the human mind is a vast machine. Just thought I'd throw that out and prepare for the beatings.:biggrin:

So maybe it was this part of Hurleys curse that allowed him to start the van and miss the rocks. I can't help thinking that if Charlie had been alone in the van it would have crashed and burned.


It didn't have anything to do with Hurley's curse being lifted. The universe just wasn't ready to kill Charlie yet. :biggrin:

Maybe Hurley isn't cursed but instead caused all the deaths.......dum da dum dum....Maybe that is just how he remembers the people dying not what really happened. Don't forget he was hospitalized. In reality he caused the chicken shak to blow by letting the gas on He left something burning toi set the house on fire....the priest had a heart attack....who knows the human mind is a vast machine. Just thought I'd throw that out and prepare for the beatings.:biggrin:OK maybe the events we saw are Hurley's imperfect subjective memories of what happened and not reality, But if that is true of Hurley's flashbacks it opens the question of couldn't it also be true of other peoples flashbacks? Trust no flashback before its time.:confused:

If we start doubting the flashbacks without a clear signal from the writers that the flashback has a problem, then can we trust anything we see on the show? For instance Boone's memory of Shannon being killed was revealed to us as a drug induced hallucination. Without a similar don't-believe-this-scene reveal from the writers for Hurley's flashbacks I feel they should be accepted as fact. That still leaves them open for me to interprete differently than Hurley did i.e. good luck (not bad) that saved those near him. Did you see any clear signal for this flashback that indicates it is not to be trusted as an actual recounting of events?

I don't dispute that 2 characters may have separate flashbacks that view the same event as different. That would fall within the realm of a signal from the writers that we are dealing with subjective memories/perspectives of said event. Eye witnesses often disagree on specifics.

Sorry, but I think Hurley might have forgotten a vital part of his curse. People around Hurley get hurt or killed. Hurley himself never gets a scratch!!

Hurleys curse protects him. It means he can cross the rope bridge without it collapsing. It means when Locke throws a knife at him it hits his canteen. So maybe it was this part of Hurleys curse that allowed him to start the van and miss the rocks. I can't help thinking that if Charlie had been alone in the van it would have crashed and burned.

Thank You that is my thinking too. to me the question still remains if the Hugo made his own luck and the curse is lifted, or if his "Cursed" good luck protected him, and Charlie too by virtue of sitting next to Hurley.

But I think if it was the curse saving him they would have rammed into the rocks and Charlie would have died while Hugo walked away unscratched. Plus the music that came on was just too much of a coincidence so I'm leaning towards the curse being lifted by positive thinking and making thier own luck. After that episode, I felt like no matter what happens in the future those 2 could die happy knowing that they looked death in the face and won.

There are two things going on here (three, actually, now that we've seen the fb from the last episode.)

I am still convinced that the numbers are "not to be used." There are just some things you don't mess with - and the numbers reflect some "vibration," some grand frequency of the Universe that are very powerful - and very dangerous.

Hurley *perceives* the numbers as a curse. As was pointed out, he already has brought to his adult life a whole load of guilt, regret, and self-blame that happened *before* he went into the mental hospital and heard the numbers.

But the numbers have definitely touched other peoples' lives in very negative ways.

However, what really *are* they? This is a personal view, but to me the numbers are like a kind of "karmic amplifier." I don't know about Sam Toomey and his wife that lost her leg, or Leonard in the mental hospital, but in the case of Hurley, it almost seems like those things that happened to others were *perhaps* part of some karmic "slapdown" that Hurley *perceives* as bad luck.

Hurley's perception is important because not only "do we make our own luck," when we think something or someone is cursed, *natural* events seem to be part of the curse. For instance, was it really part of the "curse" that Grandpa Tito died? He was an old man - working three jobs - probably sick with worry over his daughter/daughter-in-law (not sure which) and Hurley.

Hurley's brother seemed like kind of a jerk - was it really a "curse" for his wife if she left? Was it perhaps karmic redistribution?

Another example - when we first see Hurley's mother, she's being negative and downright cruel to him. He doesn't have to buy a mansion and set her up in it; he could have taken the money and sent her packing, but he doesn't. He buys a home for them both - and as she gets out of the car, she breaks her ankle.

Hurley's boss is also cruel and unkind to both Hurley and Johnny.

Tanaka was cruel to Hurley as well - she asked him a question; he gave her a straight answer, and she turned on him. It's probably how people have spoken to him all of his life - poor Hispanic kid, then a poor *fat* Hispanic kid, no father, kind of crazy mother - of course people probably have not treated him kindly. He's very much like the "dumm Hans" youngest-son character in a Grimms fairy tale, the one who nobody pays any attention to, or even abuses, because he's so marginalized.

I am not sure about Starla. Hurley wanted to ask her out "before everything changed;" perhaps he had some sense about her that she wouldn't love him for himself. Perhaps Starla was really a blessing in disguise - many of us can point to relationships like that in our own experience!

So I think in short that the whole "cursed" aspect is partially Hurley's perception - partially coincidence - and partially that the numbers really do have some "power" that seems (IMO) to reflect the karma of those around Hurley.

Is "the curse" lifted? I think that was the whole point of this episode. Not only that, I think that this episode showed the final component of Hurley's healing.

Hurley needed to heal in three dimensions - his guilt, his actual mental instability, and his low view of himself (which inhibited him and didn't let him take action like he wanted - like not asking Starla out sooner; being hesitant with Libby; letting others like Sawyer push him around.)

The island healed his actual "biochemical" (if you will) mental instability, as it healed Locke's paralysis and Rose's cancer. His low view of himself was beginning to be healed by Libby. But his belief that he was to blame (for his father's abandonment, for who knows what else in between - like his mother's craziness?, for the deck deaths) led him directly into feeling that the numbers had laid a curse on him.

I think this episode showed that they really didn't. At least he seemed to believe that. Now if TPTB can just work on getting him a woman whom *he* can feel confident in approaching, who will love him totally for himself - that will complete the process for him entirely. And he can become "the warrior" he was meant to be.

...
Meanwhile the person closest to Hurley, his ex-boss, did not enter the building and lived. Good luck brought to him by Hurley/:biggrin: The priest at the funeral was struck by lightning but the funeral party standing near Hurley was spared. His house burned down but it happened before his mother moved in thus she was saved. A plane breaks apart in mid air and instead of a normal totally fatal accident, those in Hurley's section survive. Locke throws a knife and instead of becoming a person who killed one of his fellow castaways, he hits a canteen Hurley is holding. A rescue party with Hurley in it is ambushed by the enemy and instead of bullets they use tranquilizer darts. Man that Hurley just brings luck for those around him wherever he goes! ;) otherwise the number curse would have destroyed them. :cool: That's my story selective perspective and I'm sticking to it. :biggrin:

Hey, great observations! Maybe Hurley's not as cursed as he thinks he is, after all. hmmm.
I also liked the way several others in this thread expressed themselves. It's a neat idea that Hurley could now be finished with his "curse". My thought is that this was the whole point of this ep--that Hurley had overcome both his negative thoughts AND the curse.

However, both sides of this discussion make valid points, IMO. Good reading.