So who do we know IS On the list

and how many lists are there -

Is Michael's list THE list - Kate was on that one?


Ben said Locke was on a list -

Has anyone else been named?

I think we know more people who are NOT on the list rather than who is ON...

WE also know that Ben is not the head honcho, Joshua Lives

this is getting me confused.....

^^^^^^^^^ isnt it jacob?

Ok lets look it over.

Locke could be on the list as Ben said he was on a list. Also Mikhail said he had a memory of him.

Jack is not on the list - Pickett said he is not.

Kate and Sayid are not on the list as Mikhail said they are not.

I wonder how many of the Others and of the Losties are on or not on the list.


Also tonights episode - Danielle is definately an Other.

Danielle is an Other? How so? The only thing I realized was at the end of the episode she wasn't with the 3.

We are talking about Jacob's List, here. It is the only list that matters now. It was really the only list that mattered THEN--except to J/J/K.

All I know is, whatever it takes to qualify for the list? I don't want to have it!!

All I know is, whatever it takes to qualify for the list? I don't want to have it!!

My thoughts exactly! I was thinking the same thing. It reminded me of Groucho Marx's comment:

"I would not want to belong to any club that would have me as a member." :biggrin:

Danielle is an Other? How so? The only thing I realized was at the end of the episode she wasn't with the 3.

Yes she was with them. She was in front of Sayid. You only got a glimpse of her.

Yes, please don't confuse the little list of who Michael was supposed to kidnap, or the lists Ethan and Goodwin were assembling, with Jacob's List, which is clearly "THE LIST"

Ben said Locke was on the list, but Mikhail looked at Locke and said he (Locke) was angry when talking about why people were NOT on the list.

(or did I mis-hear Mikhail?)

Could Jacob = Jack?

It would be smart of him to include himself in the hostages...

It would make sense for him to be playing ball with tom if he was in fact Jacob but he was in fact on the plane talking with anna lucia and rose he saw charlie and locke so that rules that out.

Jack = Jacob would be quite a surprise. But raises sooo many more questions that I don't see it being realistic.

True. I think we have either not met Jacob yet, or it is Danielle. Everyone say's that 'HE' is a great man. Could it be a cover for Danielle? I think she is almost definately an other after her behavior over the last two episodes. She wanted Mikhail dead to stop him talking or spilling her true identity.

Possibility?

i didnt get that.

Kate, Sayid, Ana Lucia, Jack - we know are not on list because various "Others" have said so.

I think Locke might be on the "line" and Walt was definitely on the list!! All the children seem to be on the list - including Aaron.

At least to the Others, being on the list is something to be desired. We haven't had much detail when it comes to the criteria for being on the list, but if Patchy is to be believed, it would seem personality traits play a part. Jacob is/was clearly looking for people who fit a particular profile. One of the main question is: Is a person born with such a profile, or can they do things to create a fit?

as far as jacob being Jack - I put it it the theory section a while back. And maybe the list is a list that has existed for a long time now and its a prophecy that is being fullfiled. I wonder if Nikki and Paulo are on that list

lost = list

Even though Mikhail implied that he already knew very much about the Kate Locke and Sayid's past lives, the list still must have been made after the crash, right? I always used to think that the Losties were predetermined to crash on the island, but after Live Together, Die Alone I've thought that the crash was an accident caused by Desmond. Do you think the list existed PC (pre-crash)?

Maybe all the "little" lists that get mentioned (Ethan's list, Goodwin's, etc.) are just lists of "potentials", and the lists are whittled down like American Idol until only a few remain who get to be on Jacob's list. Maybe whoever is on the list is allowed to walk through the security system without getting frappe'd.

If this were true, I would suspect that the whittling down process is connected to the flashbacks.

Concerning Jack= Jacob...
I highly doubt this because, though hiding himself with the rest of the losties, he could not guarntee he would survive the crash (if in fact he knew it was coming). It seems too much of a risk for him to be able to guarantee that he would not die on the crash. Then again, this seems not to be an ordinary crash because of the number of survivors.

Concerning Jack= Jacob...
I highly doubt this because, though hiding himself with the rest of the losties, he could not guarntee he would survive the crash (if in fact he knew it was coming). It seems too much of a risk for him to be able to guarantee that he would not die on the crash. Then again, this seems not to be an ordinary crash because of the number of survivors.

I feel stupid for asking this, but who are you all referring to when you say "Jacob"? I don't recall a Jacob being mentioned/introduced.

Even though Mikhail implied that he already knew very much about the Kate Locke and Sayid's past lives, the list still must have been made after the crash, right? I always used to think that the Losties were predetermined to crash on the island, but after Live Together, Die Alone I've thought that the crash was an accident caused by Desmond. Do you think the list existed PC (pre-crash)?


to better discuss this, i have to go back and see Kelvins reaction/response to Des following him to the boat. because that is when Des kills Kelvin and lets the 108 machine expire to the point of discharging the magnetic pulse that brought down the plane.

IF Kelvin had planned on Des leaving the hatch and forgeting about the 108 machine, then IMO, the plane was brought down on purpose. but, if the discharge was truely an accident, then there would of been NO guarantee that the passengers would be on the island.

I also theorized a while back on these boards that Jack is Jacob. Wouldn't make a ton of sense unless Jack becomes "Jacob" later on, and by the end of this time loop they're caught in Jack has become the leader of the Others. Then, Ben and the Others would have to have some way of remembering what happens every time the loop reoccurs.

Of course, Jack would not be on Jacob's list because Jack wouldn't think to put himself on his own list...

Then there's the possibility there is more than one list. One side light, and one side dark.

Kate is afraid.
Sawyer is angry.

So why would they have been on Jacob's list when Jack would not have been? After all, Pickett was the one who said Shephard isn't on Jacob's list. This would imply Kate and Sawyer are on Jacob's list. If so, and Mikhail told Kate she wasn't on the list, then what list is he talking about? Cuz apparently she was on Jacob's list with Sawyer.

If we assume that the ones taken from the tail section where on the list. (the kids, Cindy) Then at one time Eko was on the list too. But he killed the two men draging him. Ana Lucia, Libby, and Bernard were not on the list. And the only one taken from the raft was Walt. So nix Jin and Michael

I also theorized a while back on these boards that Jack is Jacob. Wouldn't make a ton of sense unless Jack becomes "Jacob" later on, and by the end of this time loop they're caught in Jack has become the leader of the Others. Then, Ben and the Others would have to have some way of remembering what happens every time the loop reoccurs.

Of course, Jack would not be on Jacob's list because Jack wouldn't think to put himself on his own list...

Then there's the possibility there is more than one list. One side light, and one side dark.

Kate is afraid.
Sawyer is angry.

So why would they have been on Jacob's list when Jack would not have been? After all, Pickett was the one who said Shephard isn't on Jacob's list. This would imply Kate and Sawyer are on Jacob's list. If so, and Mikhail told Kate she wasn't on the list, then what list is he talking about? Cuz apparently she was on Jacob's list with Sawyer.


yeah, just how many different lists are there?

we saw one list, ....(little help with the ep.)

Could Jacob = Jack?

It would be smart of him to include himself in the hostages...

ahhh

but Vincent is Jacob

he learned to make lists long ago.

Like this one

Locke
Ben
Juilet
Puppy Chow
Jin
Bone
Frizzbee

Could Locke be Jacob? Just a quick thought. I'll try to find something to maybe back it up later. :undecide:

Really though.... what do you guys mean by "Jacob"? When was this idea brought up?

Really though.... what do you guys mean by "Jacob"? When was this idea brought up?


check it out, Ex....

http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=68393&page=9

When did Ben say Locke was on the list?

All I know is that Sawyer, Jack, and Kate were captured. During that time, Danny said "Jack wasn't even on Jacob's list." And now we know Kate isn't on the list. So does that mean Sawyer was?

You are not on the List

That was a very chilling line, for me. Really gave me a shiver.

When did Ben say Locke was on the list?

All I know is that Sawyer, Jack, and Kate were captured. During that time, Danny said "Jack wasn't even on Jacob's list." And now we know Kate isn't on the list. So does that mean Sawyer was?

This is what confused me about Par Avion. That and Claire's new make-over.

Assuming there is ONE list, modified by Ben to include Jack, then that means Kate wasn't on the list either, according to Mikhail. This means Sawyer was really the only one singular lone item on the "list." What kind of list only has one thing on it, and why oh WHY would the Others want Sawyer when he's clearly "flawed" with more anger than anyone on the Island - probably even more angry than Locke.

Ben's list, Jacob's list, Mikhail's list... Does the right hand not have a clue what the left hand is doing, or are all of the Others just seriously confused?

ahhh

but Vincent is Jacob

he learned to make lists long ago.

Like this one

Locke
Ben
Juilet
Puppy Chow
Jin
Bone
Frizzbee

You forgot Skeletor's arm. :biggrin:

Pickett was mad when he saw Jack in the operating room with Ben. He leaves and says to one of the Others that Sheppard wasn't even on Jacob's list. If Jack is Jacob, why would he say this as if they are two different people?

I think we're confusing the actual lists with the concept of "The List". Basically "The List" is anyone who fulfills Jacob's criteria of what constitues a "good person". These are the people who have been kidnapped by the Others. This is the List that the Others continually talk about.

Jack, Kate and Sawyer were a separate case... Ben's personal list for the purposes of getting his back surgery.

I think we're confusing the actual lists with the concept of "The List". Basically "The List" is anyone who fulfills Jacob's criteria of what constitues a "good person". These are the people who have been kidnapped by the Others. This is the List that the Others continually talk about.

Jack, Kate and Sawyer were a separate case... Ben's personal list for the purposes of getting his back surgery.

but wasnt there a list before the one with jack/kate/sawer? i thought ethan and goodwin made lists (as in at least 2) for ben, then a wasnt a list was used that targeted walt?

and is it a coincidence that jack/kate/sawyer were on a list when it was them who were the "land" team (along w/hurley) in walt/mikes rescue mission?

but wasnt there a list before the one with jack/kate/sawer? i thought ethan and goodwin made lists (as in at least 2) for ben, then a wasnt a list was used that targeted walt?

Yes, Ethan and Goodwin's lists all served the same purpose, to identify the good people. That's the purpose of Jacob's list however that was conceived, whether it's actually a unified list of Ethan and Goodwin's recon or done by Jacob through some other surveillance. That is the big "The List" all the Others consistently refer to, "The List" of good people... whether it's a real single list of names written on paper or Ethan's, Goodwin's and Jacob's and whoever else's treated as one list anyway doesn't matter. There's only one "List" of good people.

Ben's own list wasn't to get the good people but to get people needed to get Jack to perform surgery on him.

Someone should write down a list of all the lists.

Cool! Shopping lists for humans. I am wondering if they itemized the list?

Interesting that the Others have a list of people, yet they have researched (and/or stalked down in the past) the detailed backgrounds of several characters not on it.

Also, did the whole thing with "the list" come up before or after Heroes started using "Are you on the list" as their catch phrase?

Lost was first... Ethan and Goodwin were making lists in the 2nd season... the first time I remember hearing the term was in The Other 48 Days when Ana Lucia kills the woman with the list in her hand.

Interesting that the Others have a list of people, yet they have researched (and/or stalked down in the past) the detailed backgrounds of several characters not on it.

Also, did the whole thing with "the list" come up before or after Heroes started using "Are you on the list" as their catch phrase?


before.

the heroes catch phrase was used to set the 2nd act of season 1 apart from the first act of "save the cheerleader.

Lost has been using the "list" theme for a couple of years.
100%
but it is too similar.

I have always thought that Jacob was Christian and now I'm more convinced than ever!!!

that whole scene confused me. first, patchy definitely knew things about them (i.e. their names), but not the same things that we already know the others know. for instance, when ms. klugh gave michael the list of losties to bring back, it listed their real names. kate was listed as kate ryan (her real dad's name), not kate austen, her legal name (last name of man she thought was her father - see "what kate did"). but patchy called her kate austen. i can't figure that out.
then, what the hell was he saying to locke. does he KNOW locke? that might explain why locke killed him right away (i think he knew exactly what that barrier would do) and why did danielle want to cut that conversation short as she did? earlier in the day, she abandons them because she doesn't want to come into contact with any of the others. now she's galavating into "otherville" like it's a field trip. and last season she was supposedly willing to steal aaron to trade him for her daughter, now she doesn't even want to know anything about her? what's up? i've suspected her as an other for sometime so this seems to confirm it.
also, there have to be tunnels (remember that map in the beer truck that showed the zig zagging road? was it really a tunnel?). and i don't think that jacob is anyone that we've met yet. they are saving him for a season finale.

I do want to know why Patchy never acknowledged Danielle.

that whole scene confused me. first, patchy definitely knew things about them (i.e. their names), but not the same things that we already know the others know. for instance, when ms. klugh gave michael the list of losties to bring back, it listed their real names. kate was listed as kate ryan (her real dad's name), not kate austen, her legal name (last name of man she thought was her father - see "what kate did"). but patchy called her kate austen.

good point. IMO, everyone (Others, Hostiles, DHARMA, ?) has done recon on the Losties before and during their time on the island

then, what the hell was he saying to locke. does he KNOW locke? that might explain why locke killed him right away.

mikhail was about to say that the last he knew of locke, he was paralyzed and in a wheelchair. but, i dont think locke knows mikhail

and why did danielle want to cut that conversation short as she did? earlier in the day, she abandons them because she doesn't want to come into contact with any of the others. now she's galavating into "otherville" like it's a field trip. and last season she was supposedly willing to steal aaron to trade him for her daughter, now she doesn't even want to know anything about her? what's up?

the abandonment you mention, IMO, was due to the fact that she did not want to be around when kate/locke/sayid encountered mikhail. because she has had prior relations with him and did not want to have to explain herself

also, there have to be tunnels (remember that map in the beer truck that showed the zig zagging road? was it really a tunnel?

there are tunnels, as seen here on the map sayid got from the flame..

http://www.lostpedia.com/images/f/f5...abling_Map.jpg

but the zig zag road, i believe, was a road that was to be made, but never realized.

and i don't think that jacob is anyone that we've met yet.

if he's an actual person.

if he's an actual person.

Yep. Jacob's list of "good" people strikes a familiar note. We have already seen that Smokie makes judgement calls on people, letting some go while smashing others to smithereens. This indicates that Smokie is either intelligent itself or is being controlled by some intelligence.

that whole scene confused me. first, patchy definitely knew things about them (i.e. their names), but not the same things that we already know the others know. for instance, when ms. klugh gave michael the list of losties to bring back, it listed their real names. kate was listed as kate ryan (her real dad's name), not kate austen, her legal name (last name of man she thought was her father - see "what kate did"). but patchy called her kate austen. i can't figure that out.

I thought Kate was listed as Kate Austen, actually.

that whole scene confused me. first, patchy definitely knew things about them (i.e. their names), but not the same things that we already know the others know. for instance, when ms. klugh gave michael the list of losties to bring back, it listed their real names. kate was listed as kate ryan (her real dad's name), not kate austen, her legal name (last name of man she thought was her father - see "what kate did"). but patchy called her kate austen. i can't figure that out.

She was listed as Austen on the list Michael got. Wayne's last name is Jansen. Ryan was just a fake last name that she used when she was on the run.

there are tunnels, as seen here on the map sayid got from the flame..

http://www.lostpedia.com/images/f/f5...abling_Map.jpg

but the zig zag road, i believe, was a road that was to be made, but never realized.


I believe this is the map from the van not the one Sayid took from the Flame.

Did I miss something? Who is Jacob, when did we meet him/hear about hiim? What episode talked about this?

Are there any theories out there that maybe Jacob = Smokey?

I think everyone should keep in mind that Patchy could have been lying about who is or is not on the list, and about the criteria for being put on the list. The only thing we know for sure is that Jack is not on the list because we found that out in a conversation between two of the Others.

I think Jacob = J J Abrams (Jeffrey Jacob Abrams) :biggrin: The man behind the curtain !

I think everyone should keep in mind that Patchy could have been lying about who is or is not on the list, and about the criteria for being put on the list. The only thing we know for sure is that Jack is not on the list because we found that out in a conversation between two of the Others.

I agree. They keep reiterating that he's a liar, just as they did with Ben. We should question everything he says, especially the important elements, like the List. I'm almost inclined to assume the opposite of what he's told us, or at least to think that the List is really about something other than character flaws.

Not to spoil anyone, but


Billie Dee Williams aka Lando Calrissian is coming on before the end of the season. I have to think that HE is HIM. Jacob the listmaker.


Patchy knows a lot about the survivors because he watched the video feeds from the hatch.

Maybe he knows more about Locke because he watched the video feeds of Cerebus?

Hey everyone! I've been checking out the boards for months and finally decided to make a post so here goes...

One theory I'm having about the list and who's on it has to do with the strength of people. Many of the people that aren't on the list (or as far as we know or are guessing) are either strong-willed or leaders in some sense:

Jack- recognized as if not the leader def. one of the leaders of the Losties
Ana Lucia- was the leader of the Tailies
Kate- has a lot of courage; not afraid to be on her own or mix it up with the Others
Sayid- IMO, one of the most perceptive and intelligent Losties, also has his skills as a soldier

Anyway, I'm just thinking that maybe with the Others need people who are more weak-willed to ensure that they'll be able to be "assimilated" to the Other's purposes. Maybe people who could be affected by brain-washing videos and things like that.

Of course there's the issue of Eko who I believe was on the list?? but I still think that while Eko was physically strong, he may have been more susceptible to being converted. With both him and Locke, I think of the faith element -- they were men of faith whereas Jack is science and such. The Others may be more threatened by science people as opposed to those who are willing to believe.

That be my two cents. :)

I think Ben told Locke he was on the list to try to get Locke to like him or be nice to him. Sort of playing him in a way. I don't think he was on the "good" people list.

To anyone who is confused about the identity of Jacob, let's clear things up. Go back to the episode I Do, right before Lost went on break. Near the end of that episode, when Jack has just cut Ben's kidney open and staged the whole hostage situation, Danny storms out of the room and grumbles "Shepherd wasn't even on Jacob's list." Then, in Not In Portland, when Carl is getting brainwashed, one of the clips in the brainwashing video says, "God loves you as he loved Jacob." Clearly, Jacob is a powerful and important man in Otherland.

... kate was listed as kate ryan (her real dad's name), not kate austen, her legal name (last name of man she thought was her father - see "what kate did"). but patchy called her kate austen. i can't figure that out.

I thought Kate was listed as Kate Austen, actually.

In a jaw-dropping coincidence more miraculous than a lining up of all nearby stars at noon... I just happened to have Season 2, Disc 6 already in my laptop before I saw this thread.

The list is in Three Minutes at 00 : 38 : 41. "Jack Shephard Kate Austen Hugo Reyes James Ford" ( :eek2: Sawyer's inspired by Han Solo! -- I just realized why they named him "Ford"! )

Hey everyone! I've been checking out the boards for months and finally decided to make a post so here goes...

One theory I'm having about the list and who's on it has to do with the strength of people. Many of the people that aren't on the list (or as far as we know or are guessing) are either strong-willed or leaders in some sense:

Jack- recognized as if not the leader def. one of the leaders of the Losties
Ana Lucia- was the leader of the Tailies
Kate- has a lot of courage; not afraid to be on her own or mix it up with the Others
Sayid- IMO, one of the most perceptive and intelligent Losties, also has his skills as a soldier

Anyway, I'm just thinking that maybe with the Others need people who are more weak-willed to ensure that they'll be able to be "assimilated" to the Other's purposes. Maybe people who could be affected by brain-washing videos and things like that.

Of course there's the issue of Eko who I believe was on the list?? but I still think that while Eko was physically strong, he may have been more susceptible to being converted. With both him and Locke, I think of the faith element -- they were men of faith whereas Jack is science and such. The Others may be more threatened by science people as opposed to those who are willing to believe.

That be my two cents. :)

That, I believe, is worth more than 2¢ !

So, pliability is "good," while independence and decisiveness is "bad"? Great theory, and I have the feeling the upcoming episodes may back you up. Good thinking!


and i don't think that jacob is anyone that we've met yet. they are saving him for a season finale.

Absolutely, I'm with you on that. I've felt that since Ben (as Henry) referred to a "...Great Man..."

Ben had lied a lot, but said it with such conviction, that I was sure Ben was indeed referring to someone other than himself. Mikhail's "... magnificent man" only reenforced that it's someone we haven't seen yet, especially the dismissive way Mikhail responded to the suggestion it was Ben.

i personally want to know what the deal is with cindy. has that been discussed & i missed it ? i remember reading something about her being connected with the others via the lost experience (i didnt follow that).

but i think the fact that she was on the list is significant.

i also see the possibility of locke becoming portrayed as a great man, but i cant see that sort of development involving jack. jack's pretty clueless.

if mikhail did indeed indicate that locke was NOT on the list...someone mentioned that he hadnt committed a "sin" like most of the other losties have...well...i think him losing his girlfriend over his obsession with his dad's betrayal indicates a weakness of character, like those that mikhail was pointing out.

it does appear that some people have the opportunity to repent for their sins (eko with his brother, maybe even sayid with the cat).

also, is walt STILL on the list ?

Jack never saw his dad's body, correct? If I had to pick somebody that we haven't met yet, it would be Christian.

Maybe the list isn't a real list at all. Maybe it's a metaphor, like the good and bad lists that Santa Clause keeps. Picture Jacob as a judge using a list of criteria to evaluate people. If you meet the criteria, then you are a good person and would be "on the list." If you are a bad person, you are not included on Jacob's list. Mikhail and the Others, knowing so much back ground information about the survivors, can say with confidence who is or isn't "on Jacob's List" but it does not have to mean that there is a physical list somewhere. Just that people who are "on the list" are good people worth associating with/saving/bringing into the fold of Others.

Some Christian off-shoot after the Lutherans - I think it was the French Huguenots - had the same idea about religion: God keeps two lists - one of people going to heaven, and one of people going to hell. It is predetermined at birth who is on the heaven list and who is on the hell list. There is no way to get off of the hell list. But, if you are a bad person, you can get bumped from the heaven list. You have no way to know what list you're on, so be good for goodness sake. God as Santa Clause.

Someone should write down a list of all the lists.

This is the cleanest list of lists I have seen to date

http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/List

This is the cleanest list of lists I have seen to date

http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/List

One would assume that Eko was on the tail section list - but that he fought off the kidnappers.

Maybe that is why he died - his "list-worthiness" may have been misjudged.

I agree. They keep reiterating that he's a liar, just as they did with Ben. We should question everything he says, especially the important elements, like the List. I'm almost inclined to assume the opposite of what he's told us, or at least to think that the List is really about something other than character flaws.
I agree. Danielle said that everything Mikhail says would be a lie. That is exactly what she said about Ben when he was captured and she was right then. She's probably right about Mikhail too.

[quote=gradyboy37;1431184]To anyone who is confused about the identity of Jacob, let's clear things up. Go back to the episode I Do, right before Lost went on break. Near the end of that episode, when Jack has just cut Ben's kidney open and staged the whole hostage situation, Danny storms out of the room and grumbles "Shepherd wasn't even on Jacob's list." quote]

Yes...
Jack is NOT Jacob from earlier posts. When we first heard Jacob's name, was when Danny was walking out on Jack performing surgery implying that he doesn't matter because..."Sheperd wasn't even on Jacob's list." When I first heard this, I was whoa, WHO IS JACOB? Well, we've come to assume he is the leader, the great man, the one in charge. And I think we might have seen him. Jacob could have been the weird swarmy man trying to recruit Juliette..."We think you're very special." I don't think we ever did hear his first name?

I think we're confusing the actual lists with the concept of "The List". Basically "The List" is anyone who fulfills Jacob's criteria of what constitues a "good person". These are the people who have been kidnapped by the Others. This is the List that the Others continually talk about.

Jack, Kate and Sawyer were a separate case... Ben's personal list for the purposes of getting his back surgery.

Totally agree... And this is another example of how well it seems The Others know our Losties. They knew about the triangle between Kate, Sawyer and Jack, and they used that knowledge to break Jack down. But how did they learn about this? This happened after the crash, so this information shouldn't be available in any personal file...
I think Smokie has to do with the way The Others get their knowledge...I'm starting to believe that at some point, all (or most) of the survivors have had an encounter with the black cloud. They all may have been scanned and cataloguized as good or bad according to Jacob's beliefs...

A lot of people seem to think that Jacob must be really important, and high-up in the Other's hierarchy. Many actually think that Jacob is "him". I don't understand why. What evidence do we have that would lead us to think that he's so important??

Ok, we know that he made a list. But, apparantly Goodwin and Ethan did too. In fact, Goodwin and Ethan are the only Others that we've seen ever make list. Ben hasn't made a list. Alvar Hanso hasn't made any, niether have the DeGroots, or Candle/Mittlewerk. The fact that Jacob made a list actually paralells the behavior of Ethan and Goodwin, not the behavior of the higher-ups.

Just to be clear I think Goodwin, and expecially Ethan were important as characters, but niether of them were particulary high-up as Others.

But wait, we also see "Jacob" in the brainwashing video.

Well, IMO this is obvoiusly a biblical reference. But, I suppose there might be a double-meaning here. If it is actually referring to Jacob the person, what is this telling us? God loves Jacob. Wow, he must be important if the Others are saying that God loves him, right?? Well, apparently, according to the video, God also loves all of us, so I guess recieving God's love isn't that special.

I don't mean to say that I don't think that Jacob could turn out to be an important character, later on. I think he probably will. But, a la Ethan and Goodwin, I'm not so convinced that he'll turn out to be an important Other.

I also theorized a while back on these boards that Jack is Jacob. Wouldn't make a ton of sense unless Jack becomes "Jacob" later on, and by the end of this time loop they're caught in Jack has become the leader of the Others. Then, Ben and the Others would have to have some way of remembering what happens every time the loop reoccurs.

Of course, Jack would not be on Jacob's list because Jack wouldn't think to put himself on his own list...

Then there's the possibility there is more than one list. One side light, and one side dark.

Kate is afraid.
Sawyer is angry.

So why would they have been on Jacob's list when Jack would not have been? After all, Pickett was the one who said Shephard isn't on Jacob's list. This would imply Kate and Sawyer are on Jacob's list. If so, and Mikhail told Kate she wasn't on the list, then what list is he talking about? Cuz apparently she was on Jacob's list with Sawyer.


my first post... but maybe Pickett was not referring to Jack when he said Shephard, but rather to Jack's father.

my first post... but maybe Pickett was not referring to Jack when he said Shephard, but rather to Jack's father.

They were talking about Jack at that moment. Why would they bring his father up?
100%
A lot of people seem to think that Jacob must be really important, and high-up in the Other's hierarchy. Many actually think that Jacob is "him". I don't understand why. What evidence do we have that would lead us to think that he's so important??

Ok, we know that he made a list. But, apparantly Goodwin and Ethan did too. In fact, Goodwin and Ethan are the only Others that we've seen ever make list. Ben hasn't made a list. Alvar Hanso hasn't made any, niether have the DeGroots, or Candle/Mittlewerk. The fact that Jacob made a list actually paralells the behavior of Ethan and Goodwin, not the behavior of the higher-ups.

Just to be clear I think Goodwin, and expecially Ethan were important as characters, but niether of them were particulary high-up as Others.

But wait, we also see "Jacob" in the brainwashing video.

Well, IMO this is obvoiusly a biblical reference. But, I suppose there might be a double-meaning here. If it is actually referring to Jacob the person, what is this telling us? God loves Jacob. Wow, he must be important if the Others are saying that God loves him, right?? Well, apparently, according to the video, God also loves all of us, so I guess recieving God's love isn't that special.

I don't mean to say that I don't think that Jacob could turn out to be an important character, later on. I think he probably will. But, a la Ethan and Goodwin, I'm not so convinced that he'll turn out to be an important Other.

It could be.. A lot of people thought that patchy was gonna be a really important character full of answers and we all know how he ended up... Personally right now I think that Jacob is the magnificent man Patchy was talking about. We know he makes lists and we also know that his name appears on a brainwashing video with religious connotations. We know that Ben is not the top leader, so who is then? I believe this mysterious Jacob character fits the bill. Also I think that he is not on the island right now. Perhaps there was a struggle for power between Ben and Jacob (they might be even Father and Son) and that's why Ben wanted Locke to stop pushing the button to bring down any contact with the outside world and make it very hard for Jacob to find the island again.

While he made not have provided us with all the answers we were hoping for, he did provide some valuable insight.

The Others are dedicated to their mission (whatever that is) and devoted to keeping its secrets (Ms Klugh telling him to "do his duty" and shoot her). It seems that htey (at least these two) are their of their own free-will (yes, I remember all of the threads from the begining of the season) doing what they want to do (except Julliette, Karl, and Alex).

Mikey was not hesitant in committing suicide once Locke began to push him into the giant pet fence of death. He seemed to run the last few feet into it himself.

Thoughts?:undecide:

< yes, I know this is a little off topic >

maybe one day the others kidnnaping someone that appears on the "real list"....or maybe every others had her own list (something like "shooping list")

Well the only thing we have figured out is that there needs to be a list of the list - which there is but not listed here LOL

So,

Jacob's List has __________________________ on it

Ben's List has _______________________________ on it

Michael's List has
Jack
Sawyer
Hurley
Kate
on it


I need to go to the list and copy and paste!