We saw in the last ep that both Patchy and Ms. Klugh seemed to have a death wish.
In this ep, he says "Thank You" when Locke causes his death.
Why did they want to die to desperately??

Locke seemed to want him dead, too. Perhaps this is because Patchy indicated that he knew him? Does Locke want to hide his past?

Yeah, seemed like Locke was trying to silence him. What was he going to say before Danielle interrupted him?? First time I ever told that woman to shut UP!

i believe locke does want to hide his past. he has a new life on this island...he's a leader without a disability. if his past were revealed he would have a lot of explaining to do, and some things can't be explained with "the island did it".

Don't remember the exact words, but Patchy said something about knowing that before this island he was Pa....
I assume, and I think Locke did too, that he was about to say paralyzed. Locke wants this kept secret. Patchy knew that, and wanting to die himself, figured this would prompt Locke to do what he did.

Patchy did taunt one of them to try the fence first...perhaps he expected they would be suspicious and toss him into the fence.

But Klugh did say:
We will not let them to get into the territory. You know what to do.

The John Locke I knew was paralyzed. That's my guess anyway.

seems like locke has something other to hide than the paralyzed part. what it is i have no idea. the whole episode locke looked deceiving.

Interesting that once when Kate had her gun pointed at Danielle, she (Danielle) said, "Do it... please." Further link/proof that Danielle is an Other, perhaps?

Patchy prolly knew that he'd be in trouble with the others if and when he returned to the barracks with our losties....
remember when Juliet killed Pickett (sp?), someone said something about them not taking it well when they kill one of their own, so he knew that he'd have to stand trial? maybe?

Locke definitely has some big secrets that he's hiding. He's always had his own agenda on that island. He reminded me of the Locke we saw in season one that found the hatch. He's creepy and I love it.
I wonder how the Other's have all this information on all of them? Locke sure didn't want Patchy having a chance to say anything more about him.

Patchy prolly knew that he'd be in trouble with the others if and when he returned to the barracks with our losties....

Exactly. He would rather die at the hands of the Losties than his own people. He failed his mission.

Maybe Patchy was going to say something much more revealing about John than the fact that he was paralysed. The p-hanger could have been to throw us off. He might have been ready to say, "the last time I saw John Locke he was par t of the dharma initiative".

Mikhail was about to say that Locke was "paralyzed." He only got out the sound "par-". He killed Mikhail because he was going to reveal Locke's secret.
Locke is a sneaky, sketchy, selfish man.

It makes me a bit sad to see Patchy go so soon. :( RIP

Maybe Patchy was going to say something much more revealing about John than the fact that he was paralysed. The p-hanger could have been to throw us off. He might have been ready to say, "the last time I saw John Locke he was par t of the dharma initiative".

I don't think so... I heard the full "para--," not just "par--". Plus, the "a" sound in "paralyzed" is completely different than the "a" sound in "part."

I absolutley think that Patchy was going to say "paralyzed" as oppossed to anything else. I also think that as an Other Patchy knew which buttons to push to ensure that Locke would want to silence him in any way possible.

We saw in the last ep that both Patchy and Ms. Klugh seemed to have a death wish.
In this ep, he says "Thank You" when Locke causes his death.
Why did they want to die to desperately??

Because if they were kept alive they might provide information about the island/Others to the audience and TPTB can't have that. That's why they killed Ethan. That's why they killed Goodwin. That's why they killed Mrs. Klugh. And that's why they killed Patchy.

Because if they were kept alive they might provide information about the island/Others to the audience and TPTB can't have that. That's why they killed Ethan. That's why they killed Goodwin. That's why they killed Mrs. Klugh. And that's why they killed Patchy.

I've noticed this myself, and it doesn't stop there! They've killed off (or otherwise gotten rid of) almost every character we've ever met that would have information about the island or island-goers, and at least once we didn't even see the person die!

Edward Mars (the martial), Kelvin Inman, Radzinsky, Libby, Klugh, Mikhail, then come the more ridiculous ones: Walt and Michael were released (Walt probably knows more about The Others than anyone), Desmond ran away for an entire season, and they just released Karl back into the wild!

I don't understand why Locke is the only one who seems to care what's going on on this damn island. :) He's my savior as far as Lost is concerned!

He may have been going to say paraplegic. I don't think Locke wants anyone finding that out until he's ready to reveal it. So he "killed two birds with one stone" so to speak. He got rid of Patchy and found out if the security system really was working. Locke is BACK!

Just to make it clear Patchy said "para..." I watched it several times to be sure he stops very suddenly after the "a" So he was most likely going to say paralyzed. I can't think of anything else that would fit that starts with para.

He may have been going to say paraplegic. I don't think Locke wants anyone finding that out until he's ready to reveal it. So he "killed two birds with one stone" so to speak. He got rid of Patchy and found out if the security system really was working. Locke is BACK!

I think it's a valid point that if Mikhail was going to lie about the alarm system working, which could in turn get one of the team killed, he would probably continue to manipulate the situation until one or all of them were dead. We was counterproductive to the mission and should've been eliminated before they left. He really served no purpose as far as furthering their plan of rescuing Jack, and had already attempted to kill himself once. This time he just convinced Locke to do it for him. ;)

No he was saying Locke was Para..


Noid :)


Of course it was paralyzed. What else could it be?--paralegal. No, Locke was formerlly a parasite

I dont think Locke cared about the paralized comment in the way you guys are saying(your saying Locke didnt want his friends to know so he was willing to kill)--dont think so. He didnt interupt him..French lady did.

I think Locke Now knows that the others had something to do with his being paralized ..that was the last straw for him--so if the fence kills patchy--so be it.

The picture they are painting is revenge. Locke hates Ben and is hell bent on being the Hunter here. The others being the prey. I think next week we will see this play out with this theme in mind.

I think Locke Now knows that the others had something to do with his being paralized

I wouldn't mind it, but that's not what I got from that scene.

The picture they are painting is revenge. Locke hates Ben and is hell bent on being the Hunter here. The others being the prey. I think next week we will see this play out with this theme in mind.

God, I hope so!

Well, the fence works. And what a wonderful opportunity for Locke to get rid of Patchy. It was funny watching Locke calmly drop his backpack to prepare for shoving Patchy into the sonic fence weapon (or whatever he called it). Patchy, meet John Locke, the hunter.

I'd love it if Patchy shows up in next weeks episode as part of the Locke flashback and then we'll know why Locke threw him into the fence. If you can call it a fence.

Because if they were kept alive they might provide information about the island/Others to the audience and TPTB can't have that. That's why they killed Ethan. That's why they killed Goodwin. That's why they killed Mrs. Klugh. And that's why they killed Patchy.

I've noticed this myself, and it doesn't stop there! They've killed off (or otherwise gotten rid of) almost every character we've ever met that would have information about the island or island-goers, and at least once we didn't even see the person die!

Edward Mars (the martial), Kelvin Inman, Radzinsky, Libby, Klugh, Mikhail, then come the more ridiculous ones: Walt and Michael were released (Walt probably knows more about The Others than anyone), Desmond ran away for an entire season, and they just released Karl back into the wild!

I don't suppose I understand these comments. This thread, I think, was intended to discuss why the characters themselves wanted Patchy to die...but you two seem to want to redirect the thread to your feelings about the writing/directing of the show.

What would be the point of the show if they captured someone with information, drug it out of them, and subsequently figured out all of the mysteries of the island? Answer - no point - or, it'd be a miniseries, not a 4-6 year show (depending on who you listen to). TPTB have written this show so that we get information piece by piece, not dump it all on us! The 'fuse most likely wouldn't even exist if we had all the answers - there'd be nothing to discuss!

But returning to the point of thread...I think maybe that Klugh and Patchy had the "death wish" because 1) they were instructed to, or brainwashed to believe that they should commit suicide if captured (like spies), or 2) they were scared to death of "the man" that Patchy refers to and what it would mean if they were used as a bargaining chip to coerce hostages out of the Others' hands or information out of them. Just my thoughts.

Locke hates Ben and is hell bent on being the Hunter here.

I think this is really the first time we've seen Locke step up to the plate on this level. He had opportunity to with Ben's interrogation, but got soft, and regrets it. Ever since his "vision quest" he's been more true to who he is supposed to be - the hunter.

Why would Locke hate Ben in particular? Ben actually helped him when Locke was trapped by the blast door in the Swan (and seemed generally concerned about his injuries).

Mikhail may have had a death wish, but he sure didn't mind taking anyone with him, as he tried to encourage the party to cross the pylon barrier. At the time, I took Locke's action as , "OK, you first", without him knowing that the 'fence' would be fatal. I don't think Locke was trying to kill him, but there's always the possibility he wanted him silenced. Although he hasn't harmed Rose, who also knows about his pre-crash paralysis (we think - anyone seen her lately?!?) - maybe if she hasn't said anything before, he feels he's safe.

Anyway, it's kind of nice to be back wondering about Locke's motivations. The character was losing some edge as a generic action hero.

Locke definitely meant to kill patchy. It’s no secret that he (and Rousseau for that matter) didn’t like the fact that someone who told their little search party that he’s basically waiting for the moment that they drop their guard, and that he wouldn’t hesitate to kill them was being kept alive. The fact is, we basically can’t trust anything that Mikhail said. I tend to believe the story he was telling about “The Purge” in the last episode, because the easiest lies to tell are often the ones that are half-true, but the level of dedication to the secretive nature of their existence makes The Others hard to gauge and almost impossible to trust. All in all, I would much rather test whether or not a security perimeter fence/trap was still working by sacrificing a prisoner (or a pawn, if you like to look at it in terms of a chess game, which the situation on the island most definitely is more often than not) rather than have Kate or Sayid try walking through it to see what will happen.

Locke is like a military general…think back to his first flashback episode (“Tabula Rosa” – Season 1, ep. 3) where he was playing “Risk” or “Axis & Allies” or whatever military strategy board game he was playing during his lunch hour with a co-worker. His opponent said something to him about a development in the game and Locke’s response was “Patience, GL12, is the hallmark of a leader.” We see that recently Kate hasn’t been too good in the patience department, and Sayid doesn’t share Locke’s faith in the supernatural elements of what’s happening on the island, so he’s taking more time strategizing in his own mind before divulging details and information. It’s very much like when the White House decides how much and what info to share with the public. I think Locke is trying to anticipate and cut-down on the many mistakes that our survivors have been making all this time by leaping before they look. Locke is a thinker, plain and simple. I think all of his actions are in an effort to help their side win. I don’t think he’s turning on the survivors.

From the beginning the producers have said they look at the adventures on LOST unfolding as they would in a video game. If you were Locke’s character in a video game, and came across some C4, you’d probably hold on to some because, “you never know what a little C4 might come in handy.” Any experienced gamer would agree with me on that. I do agree that Locke probably got more info than we, as the audience, have been privy to at this point when he entered 77 into the computer. Logically, the self-destruct count-down would’ve been initiated, and the computer would tell the person who entered 77 to leave the building immediately. OR, the computer could’ve instructed him to go down into the basement of the station and activate the explosives manually, which would explain why Locke found the C4 and was able to take some instead of blowing it all up. OR, there could’ve been a single C4 charge sitting on a table next to the computer or on a work-bench behind where he was sitting at the computer, as it seemed to be an equipment room of some kind. The fact is, we just don’t know, and trying to understand the controversy of a situation like that without all the pertinent information leads to incidents like Ana Lucia shooting Shannon. Everyone needs to learn to take a few seconds and think things through before taking drastic action. Jack has proved this time and time again on this show.

I’m actually a little surprised that the security perimeter was even still working, when you consider that all communications have been down since the Hatch Explosion from the Season 2 finale. I do think it was strangely vulnerable to people being able to get over the fence, but look at how they’ve limited their ability to exit the same way. If they were being pursued by The Others, they wouldn’t be able to take the time to cut down a tree and build a support and climb over, so unless they find a way to turn the perimeter off, they’ve kinda shot themselves in the foot. At this point, we don’t know if there was some sort of threat on the island that would’ve made going over more dangerous…maybe back in the days when the four-toed statue was still intact. Who knows…

Jack…is obviously “undercover” in his situation with The Others. (Remember: “He walks amongst us, but he is not one of us.”) He’s put himself into a power-position as Ben’s personal physician, but he’s also put himself in a very dangerous and delicate position, as his true motive seems to be to force Ben to be true to his word. He’s also forged a silent alliance with Juliet, and in order to distance himself from suspicion, he needs to play along with the situation. I think when he sacrificed himself so that Kate and Sawyer could escape, he basically started to “let things go”, as his father was always trying to get him to do. He accepted that Kate wants to be with Sawyer, and he did what was in his power to do in order to save them, but from then on, he’s on his own…and his only goal is to get off the island and back to the real world. Of course, now that we know there’s someone above Ben in this equation, it’ll be interesting to see if the deal is still honored. (I doubt it will be. Jack is not a traitor either.)

Ben may have helped Locke, but he also played him for a fool.

He lied to him, conned him, and left him in a manner similiar to his "father" did. Locke may not "hate" him, but I believe he does want to talk with him and get some answers ... especially the answer to "why" and "why me"

I'm still not entirely sure Locke meant for Patchy to die. Basically, they were probably going to have to kill him eventually, they needed to test the sonic death fence...he probably should have said "hey guys why don't we just chuck this guy at the thing and see what happens" first, but either way I think he did the right thing - regardless of his intentions.

But returning to the point of thread...I think maybe that Klugh and Patchy had the "death wish" because 1) they were instructed to, or brainwashed to believe that they should commit suicide if captured (like spies), or 2) they were scared to death of "the man" that Patchy refers to and what it would mean if they were used as a bargaining chip to coerce hostages out of the Others' hands or information out of them. Just my thoughts.I think that it is more likely to be the first reason. They did not appear to be frightened of anything, just determined that they needed to die now.

I'd love it if Patchy shows up in next weeks episode as part of the Locke flashback and then we'll know why Locke threw him into the fence. If you can call it a fence.I would love to see that, but I'm wondering if they have met each other in the past, or if he simply had a file about Locke, as Juliette did of Jack.

I agree that Locke wasn't trying to kill Patchy when he "helped" Patchy towards the fence. As others have said, Locke was testing the water with an expendable unit. If nothing happened to Patchy, the rest would have followed through together and contuinued on.

Relatedly, I don't think Locke intended or even CAUSED the Flame to blow up. I think Klugh had recently put the C4 around the Flame to blow it up herself, with Mikhail's knowledge. Maybe it was on a timer, or something... or some remote control device was used when the cameras showed the place was vacated.

I loved Locke in this episode, I thought he sucked in the last episode but this one was great. I do think he wanted to shut up Patchy, I don't think he knew the 'fence' would kill him but he certainly didn't care.

Relatedly, I don't think Locke intended or even CAUSED the Flame to blow up.
Locke knew that the station would blow up, he knew it was ringed with C4 and he knows how to make 2 out of 1 and 1. I think the other explanations are possible but not at all likely, anyone who had seen what happened at the Flame would have done more than blow it up.