So Locke knew about the C4. In fact he took it without telling anyone. So he knew the place was going to blow up. I also believe he knew Patchy would die or at least he would likely died or Locke would have tested the fence out on himself. He killed that guy without blinking an eye. This from a guy who couldn't kill Eddie in his past. Locke's changed.

I always thought he was shifty but he's getting shiftier. Sayid is right not to trust him. So what's up with him? Is he only out for himself?

I believe he is still desperate the keep his secret and keep everyone from leaving the island. He blew up the communications station and next he's going after the submarine.

Locke is one dangerous dude.

Well this makes me feel better about the previous ep. I had a hard time believing that Locke would make a huge mistake like that.

Locke has always been about his own agenda and little else.

I can't believe this guy! He tooooooooooooootally killed Mikhail on purpose! Mikhail was about to say that he knew that Locke was paralyzed. You can hear him say the "par" of "paralyzed."
He is so totally out for himself.
I'm just glad that my whole time despising him is finally turning out to have reasons behind it. He really is that shady and shifty.
And based on the preview not only does he blow up the submarine, but he says that he's not there for Jack, he's there to see Ben. Go figure.

I don't like destructive Locke. I have confidence in the writers that he needs to go through this phase to get to his dramatic place in the story, but I don't like it. It's like he's a rambunctious 2 year old. Sayid should give him a smack down.

Locke is very selfish and takes things way too personal. Just because someone knew you were paralyzed doesn't give you the right to kill them.

Okay, if Locke did not go into the basement, where did he get the C4?

We don't know for sure whether he went into the basement or not, right?

If he did go into the basement, did he just yank a C4 charge off of the wall?

If he didn't get the C4 from the basement, then he must have got if from the main floor of the Flame. If that is the case, does this lend more support to the theory that Klugh and Mikhail were installing the C4 recently?

Also, I didn't notice, did the C4 that Locke have in his pack have a detonator already inserted into it?

And, finally, does it really make sense that they did not use the C4 on the security system like Danielle wanted them to? Would placing it next to the fence have made it go off? And if so, why didn't they stick it to the end of the long pole and just push it over to the fence and blow it up that way?

I think these insights into Locke's secret agenda were the best, most important part of this episode. I guess we've seen, in the preview that

Locke is going to see Ben

But Why?? What's going on here??

If he knew about the C4, it makes me wonder if entering 77 really did blow up the Station (or if Locke knew it would cause the self-destruct sequence to begin), or if the explosives were set off in some other manner (ala Locke).

Either way, Locke definitely lied to conceal his theft...Why?

I want to know what he took that C4 for? We wondered what if anything he took from the Flame, but to carry around something so unstable. He could have put himself and the whole group in danger with that thing in his backpack. Why does he want it?

First he's all how was I supposed to know the whole place would explode if I pushed the button. Okay, fine. Then he says it again, how was I supposed to know it was a security fence and Patchy was going to die. Then Sayid finds the C4 and guess what, he DID know the place was going to blow, which means guess what? he knew Patchy was going to die too.

I can't believe anything he says anymore, not that I ever could but I would often give him the benefit of the doubt based on his perspective. Now he just seems eeeevil.

I can't believe this guy! He tooooooooooooootally killed Mikhail on purpose! Mikhail was about to say that he knew that Locke was paralyzed. You can hear him say the "par" of "paralyzed."
He is so totally out for himself.
I'm just glad that my whole time despising him is finally turning out to have reasons behind it. He really is that shady and shifty

Oh my goodness, you are so right! I didn't catch it at first, but now looking back I see it. Very good catch about what Mikhail was saying. And I agree, he is out for himself first and foremost- but if he can save anyone in the process, I don't think he'll pass that up. I don't believe he's totally heartless. He's just really messed up. >_>

Locke's methods leave a little to be desired, but I can't say I fault him for offing Mikhail. Patchy was obviously banking on *someone* trying out the perimeter, which would have been one less captor to deal with as the group got closer to Othersville. Ultimately, Patchy was going to make good on his threat to off the Losties, so Locke merely expedited his removal as that threat. Besides, he has faith in his magic stick that he'll get where he wants to go, so who needed Patchy anyway? What I find interesting is Locke appears to have a very specific agenda when it comes to reaching Othersville. I can't wait for next week!

He has definately gotten shiftyer and shiftyer since the Hatch implosion...although I have't really trusted him since the beginning...he's always seemed strange.

I know about the sub, and from his last flashback we can assume he was involved in a plan to blow something up, I wonder if he is a closet pyromaniac! And I really want to know what he will blow up next!



I also can't quite believe that he killed the Russian just because he was going to tell them he was paralyzed...I hope that there is more to it then that...

How did Locke get the C4? Did he go into the basement and yank it off the wall? If not, then he must have got it from the main level. But we didn't see any C4 on the walls in the main level. So what this implies is that Mikhail and Klugh were installing the C4 just before the Lostie Posse Patrol showed up.

And, finally, does it really make sense that they did not use the C4 on the security system like Danielle wanted them to? Would placing it next to the fence have made it go off? And if so, why didn't they stick it to the end of the long pole and just push it over to the fence and blow it up that way?This is what I figured they were doing when they first picked up that log. Did they not have an effective/safe way of detonating it?

Perhaps it still wouldn't have disabled the system because the pylons were close enough together that it may have still functioned?

How did Locke get the C4? Did he go into the basement and yank it off the wall? If not, then he must have got it from the main level. But we didn't see any C4 on the walls in the main level. So what this implies is that Mikhail and Klugh were installing the C4 just before the Lostie Posse Patrol showed up.

I don't think it implies anything. Locke and Kate were in the building scavenging for supplies for a while before they went out to leave with Sayid and Danielle. Kate was loading up on ammo and Locke may have gone to the basement and taken the C4.

How did Locke get the C4? Did he go into the basement and yank it off the wall? If not, then he must have got it from the main level. But we didn't see any C4 on the walls in the main level. So what this implies is that Mikhail and Klugh were installing the C4 just before the Lostie Posse Patrol showed up.

It was Locke who suggested that Patchy would be waiting for them to arrive at the Flame (when he became aware he was being watched by the Losties in the Pearl), and he apparently correct. It could be surmised that Klugh was there to help Mikhail rig the place with explosives and ultimately blow the place sky high. What they didn't account for is Eko's magic stick leading Locke and co there quicker than anticipated.

Locke's methods leave a little to be desired, but I can't say I fault him for offing Mikhail. Patchy was obviously banking on *someone* trying out the perimeter, which would have been one less captor to deal with as the group got closer to Othersville.

I posted the same idea in another thread a little bit ago. He knows he's going to die anyway, so why not take one out if you can, right?

What I find interesting is Locke appears to have a very specific agenda when it comes to reaching Othersville. I can't wait for next week!

Yes! Locke is definitely on a mission. We'll find out what it is next week.

I have always thought Locke was evil, and sometimes relented when people just said he was out for himself and selfish.
I'm leaning back toward him just being evil now. He freaks me out more than any other character.

I really think Locke has lost his mind, and insanity does run in the family. Heaven knows what he thinks he's accomplishing, but it's nothing rational.

Steph, the feds thought Locke's group was going to commit a terrorist act, but their ammonium nitrate was just being used to fertilize their pot farm.

Cardie

Heres an idea! Wat if the reason why Locke pushed the buttons and why he took the C4 to use for somthing (obviously not the gate) is becuse he knew it was going to happen as in saw it in FLASHES..like Desmond...what if Locke had a flash too cuz he did implode in the same hatch...we wouldnt really know if it affected Eko cuz he died...Locke sees the future?

I don't think it implies anything. Locke and Kate were in the building scavenging for supplies for a while before they went out to leave with Sayid and Danielle. Kate was loading up on ammo and Locke may have gone to the basement and taken the C4.

We don't know whether Locke went into the basement or not. He said tonight that "Why didn't you tell me there was C4 in the basement?" Which to my mind sounds like he never went down there. Of course it could have been part of his lie, but if it was, then why didn't Kate jump in and say something? She had been with Locke during the time they were foraging for stuff, so she would most likely would have known if Locke had gone down into the basement, found the C4 strapped to the walls, got a hold of some tools, removed some of the C4, and then come back upstairs, doncha think? So when Locke claims to not have known about the C4 in the basement, and Kate didn't say: "Well, just what were you doing down there for so long then, Locke?" - then this goes a LONG WAY to proving that Locke did not get the C4 from the basement. He got it from somewhere on the first floor. Probably on that work table (http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage.php?pid=88554&fullsize=1) next to the outer door where all the wiring equipment was visible.

Heres an idea! Wat if the reason why Locke pushed the buttons and why he took the C4 to use for somthing (obviously not the gate) is becuse he knew it was going to happen as in saw it in FLASHES..like Desmond...what if Locke had a flash too cuz he did implode in the same hatch...we wouldnt really know if it affected Eko cuz he died...Locke sees the future?

I'm not sure if Locke has the same ability as Desmond, but I wouldn't be surprised if we find out he has his own little selection of parlor tricks.

I've said it in before... I see Locke as saving the day in the end. When the island spoke to him, it might have been instructions which he is carrying out right now...

Here's another thought:

Tonight Locke said "Why didn't you tell me there was C4 in the basement?"

Now, if he and Kate had been foraging together in the Flame while Danielle, Mikhail and Sayid were outdoors, it is possible that Locke could have gone down into the basement and found the C4. But then he would have had to taken time to remove it from being fastened to the wall. And seeing as how it was all wired up the way it was, doesn't it seem risky to try to remove part of a detonation system without knowing whether it had been rigged up to go off if it was tampered with? And he would have had to search for some tools, taken some time to remove it from the wall, etc.

So, since he asked them why they didn't tell him about the C4 in the basement, wouldn't you think that Kate would have jumped in and said: "Well, didn't you see it for yourself while you were down there so long?" or something to that effect...

This all leads one to the conclusion that Locke obtained the C4 from the first floor of the Flame, which means it was not installed long ago, but that Mikhail and Klugh were in the process of doing it, just as it appeared from how the wiring was set up the way it was.

I was definitely shocked when Sayid grabbed the c4 out of Locke's backpack. I just thought Locke was stupid for pushing the button, since he seems to have an affinity for pushing them, but he so knew that the Flame was going to blew up.

I have to say that eeevil Locke is definitely making things more interesting. I was beginning to think that he was always a pathetic character and we are just seeing it now, that he was never a mystic.

Come to the dark side, Locke. :dgrin:

I have believed from Season One that Locke will ultimately prove to be the biggest challenge to the Others' supremacy of the Island. I still believe so, although Jack is still in the running...

Sawyerslover I really think you might be onto something!! What did he tell Hurley when they were talking about Desmonds powers?

Locke has always had his own agenda.

And next week, we'll be seeing just how much more dangerous he can be in his determination to fulfill it! :eek:

Why do I get a bad feeling Terry O'Quinn got another job? TPTB have definitely been writing Locke as an obstacle for the past three episodes. According to the promo:


We find out how Locke got put in the wheelchair next week.

This better not mean Locke's toast. After all, this episode came real close to a Locke character climax. Until Danielle interrupted, Mikhail was about to explain the John Locke he USED to know. Of course, shortly after that, Locke pushed Mikhail into the sonic fence...

I'm not ready to know about Locke yet, and I'm sure not ready to see him die.

So does that mean the explosion of the hatch WAS NOT triggered by the entering of 77 by Locke?

That would lead me to believe that instead of blowing up the hatch, perhaps the entry of code 77 merely disabled everything and alerted some higher power to the threat.

Did Kate come out of the Flame with Locke? Because if she did then he probably didn't go downstairs to get the C4, she would have noticed that. Otherwise then he did. And I think that they didn't use the C4 on the security system becuase there was no guarantee that it would actually disable the system and it makes more sense for them to hold onto the C4 just incase they need it later. They are going after the others after all, they might need a diversion or something, you never know when some C4 would come in handy. And besides, this stuff looks like it is slightly more stable then the stuff they got from the ship...that also lends itself to the theory that the C4 was a new addition to the hatch.

I think it's reasonable to assume that Locke got the C-4 from the first floor of the Flame, not the basement. That's probably what Mrs. Klugh was doing down there.

As far as the fence goes. C-4 makes a LOT of noise. I would think that alone would be reason enough to not want to blow the fence. I'm sure Kate and Sayid (not so sure about Locke) would prefer not to announce their arrival.

It seems to me that Locke is still operating under the assumption that Ben (Benry; Henry) was coming to take him back to the Others' camp.

Being an "island above all" kind of guy my guess is that Locke's "motive" is to get there as quickly and efficiently as possible.

I'm not sure what exactly is going on with Locke, but I'm very intrigued. He's been creeping me out for a long time.

Here's my question, if entering 77 is what was responsible for blowing the place, then why did patchy stop locke from entering it? It's not like Patchy cares if they all die. Yeah he would die, but he'd take out everyone else with him. I have a feeling that Locke's pushing 77 was a good thing. i didn't think so at first, and that is the reason why patchy and klough were gonna blow it up, so no one could have access to the computer to enter 77. does anybody see where I'm coming from with this?

Why do I get a bad feeling Terry O'Quinn got another job? TPTB have definitely been writing Locke as an obstacle for the past three episodes.


Don't be too worried 42nd Floor...

Remember what Adam Horowitz said about next week's episode:"It will create some new story paths for the audience to be interested in Locke. And we fully hope the question in everyone's head is answered, and they're all very happy with the answer and excited by it. But we're excited, because it has opened up some new things with that character that we hope you guys will like."

So does that mean the explosion of the hatch WAS NOT triggered by the entering of 77 by Locke?

That would lead me to believe that instead of blowing up the hatch, perhaps the entry of code 77 merely disabled everything and alerted some higher power to the threat.

Actually, I think the whole issue of precisely what happened when the 77 Code was entered by Locke is completely unknowable at this point, given the evidence we have and even stuff gleaned from spoiler sources... We do know that Locke said he entered the code when he met up with Sayid outside. That's all we know.

However, it is interesting that the same exact wiring that was used for the C4 in the basement (http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage.php?pid=88472&fullsize=1), and which is sitting out on the coffee table (http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage.php?pid=88340&fullsize=1) in the main room, is only to be found in one other place in the Flame - hooked up to the computer (http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage.php?pid=88180&fullsize=1) that Locke was using. You can look at the first entry to this thread (http://thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=72141&page=2) to view lots of other screencaps of wiring all over the Flame, and you'll see for yourself that the wiring on the coffee table is only found in those two other places just mentioned - nowhere else.

So, what does that mean? It could mean two things: 1) either Mikhail and/or Klugh wired the computer program up to detonate the C4, and then changed the computer program to activate the detonation timer if Code 77 was entered, or 2) the wiring used to connect the C4 was also used to bring the computer back up on line after it had got its brains fried as a result of the electromagnetic discharge that took place when the Swan blew up. In the second case the computer might not have had anything to do with the C4 blowing up.

Here are the possibilities of how the C4 was detonated:

1: Klugh tripped a timer switch in the basement before being captured.
2: Klugh wasn't really dead after being shot, and was able to sneak into the building and detonate the C4.
3: Mikhail activated a timer to detonate the C4.
4. Locke detonated the C4 by entering the 77 Code into the computer.
5: Locke detonated the C4 by some other way than entering the code.
6: The Losties somehow unknowingly triggered a switch to detonate the C4.
7: Someone else detonated the C4 through remote control - probably as a result of viewing what was happening in the Flame over the surveillance cameras.

What is notable about these possibilities is that they have not changed since "Enter 77" was aired. In other words, we still do not know how the C4 was detonated.
100%
Did Kate come out of the Flame with Locke? Because if she did then he probably didn't go downstairs to get the C4, she would have noticed that. Otherwise then he did. And I think that they didn't use the C4 on the security system becuase there was no guarantee that it would actually disable the system and it makes more sense for them to hold onto the C4 just incase they need it later. They are going after the others after all, they might need a diversion or something, you never know when some C4 would come in handy. And besides, this stuff looks like it is slightly more stable then the stuff they got from the ship...that also lends itself to the theory that the C4 was a new addition to the hatch.

Excellent analysis.

All we know for sure is that both Kate and Locke showed up together to join Danielle, Sayid and Mikhail after some considerable time had passed since we'd seen the activities at the Flame from the previous scene when it was still daylight outside.

As for C4 being stable - yeah, it is VERY much more stable than the dynamite that they got from the Black Rock! And I agree with your ides about why they would not have used it to blow the fence, as well as wanting to hold onto it for later...
100%
Here's my question, if entering 77 is what was responsible for blowing the place, then why did patchy stop locke from entering it? It's not like Patchy cares if they all die. Yeah he would die, but he'd take out everyone else with him. I have a feeling that Locke's pushing 77 was a good thing. i didn't think so at first, and that is the reason why patchy and klough were gonna blow it up, so no one could have access to the computer to enter 77. does anybody see where I'm coming from with this?

Hey, I'm totally with you on this! I think Locke is doing precisely what needs to be done - he's taking the game to the enemy. I think he conducted the entire situation at the Flame as a good soldier would have: he got them there and maintained the element of surprise in doing so, he infiltrated their installation (remember it was he, not Sayid, who came out of the woods with rifle blazing at Mikhail's feet), he conducted a fairly decent surveillance of the primary function of the Flame (the computer system and communications network), he grabbed some Intelligence, and he then eliminated the facility so it would be of no use to the enemy (that last point is debatable of course whether he actually did it or not). The only goof up he did was to allow himself to be caught off guard by Mikhail.

So, seeing as how you're a Jater, how do you feel about the end of this episode?

I have to concede there must have been C4 lying around on the main level. Wow I can't believe what a sacrifice it must have been for the others/hostiles to blow up the flame, I guess they could use the radio tower if they ever wanted to communicate with the outside world. They insinuated that they would have got help for Ben if comms weren't down, and they were able to use someone in the US to recruit Juliette so they are still somewhat in touch with civilization.

I think Locke killed Patchy not because he was going to say Locke was paralyzed, but because it insinuated they had maybe met previously. And why did Danielle interrupt Patchy just as he was going to disclose that? This episode made me very suspicious of Locke and Danielle.

So Locke knew about the C4. ... He killed that guy without blinking an eye. Locke's changed.

So what's up with him? Is he only out for himself?

I believe he is still desperate the keep his secret and keep everyone from leaving the island. He blew up the communications station and next he's going after the submarine.

Oh, you are so right! He'll do anything to stay on that Island, and keep "outsiders" from finding it. But just because he WAS paralyzed and now is cured? There HAS to be more motivation behind it than that, doesn't there? Yep, he's changed.
Unless Locke is losing it...always remember what he said: Crazy people think they're getting saner." (Or something like that.)

Well this makes me feel better about the previous ep. I had a hard time believing that Locke would make a huge mistake like that.
Oh yeah, I agree. It seemed like he was doing something SO stupid...but if he's determined to do all he can to keep from communicating w/ the outside world, that would make sense. He certainly is destructive lately. (Well, actually, from the beginning, when he hit poor Sayid in the head!)

Mikhail was about to say that he knew that Locke was paralyzed. You can hear him say the "par" of "paralyzed."

Yes, I thought that Danielle cut him off because he was giving away info she didn't want the group to hear. I didn't hear the "par" part, but I'll listen for it when I rewatch tomorrow.

We've been waiting so long to see Locke's (wheelchair) b-story, but if it shows he's been evil all along, I'll be sorry about it. I didn't want Locke to be evil, but now it's looking like he is! argh! If so, then The Island has not changed him for the good. Unless the Island has a very strange sense of "good"...which explains why Ben called themselves the Good Guys.

Fascinating episode!

I love Locke. Some people can't relate to him. To me, it seems that his individualism, his tendancy to escape into an inner reality has a lot to do with being an orphan and being betrayed. He was immaculately concieved like Howard Roark seems to have been in The Foutainhead but I don't know how much of a connection that can be too Locke since Rand despised "mystics." Locke also shows signs of some personality disorders, but doesn't everyone on the island? He is certainly affected by magical thinking, and this is a coping tool, but in the world of Lost, it isn't irrational.

If Locke and Desmond both were given powers, well it would seem that as pawns of the island, Locke accepted, and Desmond is challenging.

It seems like the theory that Locke believes he was the one meant to land on the island, that he was given the ability to walk, that his transformation was the most miraculous, was specifically so he could root out the hostiles. And he has taken up that divine mission. Then the island will reward him or let everyone go or bring everyone back or he'll save the world.

I agree with ame en peine, I hope that Locke in some way saves everyone in the end.

There was a time in season one when I thought he would turn out to be the "evil villain" in the end, but everything else points to him being a good guy. He rescued them all from starving to death, rescued Charlie from his drug problems, rescued eko from the polar bear, rescued Jack a couple times, rescued Desmond from committing suicide.... the crazy things he does usually end up serving a good purpose.

As a lot of people pointed out last week, there seemed to maybe be a C4 pack on the workbench near the chess computer. So, if you were a Lostie, and you saw something you recognized as useful (nice stable non-Arzt destroying explosives), why wouldn't you grab some.

So, yes, he's sneaky and grabbed it. But I don't think it HAS to mean he knew the place was rigged to blow. He saw the pack, but maybe he didn't know many others were deployed in the basement. Maybe his question was mostly genuine?

But one thing I loved about this episode is the characters asked the questions we ask at home. For once! :)

I want to know what he took that C4 for? We wondered what if anything he took from the Flame, but to carry around something so unstable. He could have put himself and the whole group in danger with that thing in his backpack. Why does he want it?

C4 is not unstable at all....thats why it the most common explosive for military acton. You can do anything with that stuff--even use it for a baseball. It needs to be detonated to explode.

about Looke turning bad..not a chance

I think it would be obvious to most that the writers keep having Sayid challange Lockes mystical beliefs only to prove Locke right at some later point. Very common technique in writing

Maybe Locke took the c4 for the submarine.

Don't be too worried 42nd Floor...

Remember what Adam Horowitz said about next week's episode:"It will create some new story paths for the audience to be interested in Locke. And we fully hope the question in everyone's head is answered, and they're all very happy with the answer and excited by it. But we're excited, because it has opened up some new things with that character that we hope you guys will like."

Where did you read that quote from Horowitz? Can I get a link from someone? It looks like there's a LOST site that I've missed! Thanks.

From the beginning of the series, I have always really liked Locke (I think Terry O'quinn does an amazing job with him) - yet from the scene with the orange peel in his mouth onward, he reminds me of some eerie freaky guy... it's been ongoing.. his looks, him sitting out in the rain, communicating with the island.. etc.. In many ways I see him as a "wanna be" - from playing the war games at work, to being involved with a phone sex provider as a substitute for what he really wanted... so much of him.. it was more like a young kid trying to fit in somewhere...
now, i think he believes that benry wants him.. he was coming there for him.. and locke will go to any means to be wanted...so his mission is to find benry... locke would have no reason to want to leave the island.. he would seem to have more reason to stay - especially if he believes that the island wants him..

It seems to me that Locke is still operating under the assumption that Ben (Benry; Henry) was coming to take him back to the Others' camp.

Being an "island above all" kind of guy my guess is that Locke's "motive" is to get there as quickly and efficiently as possible.

Now that makes a lot of sense. It would appeal to his ...well, I hate to say it, but it appears that Locke is developing a God Complex, and it would appeal to that...thinking it has to be he who resolves all issues on The Island. And if he really believes that Ben singled him out (as Ben told him in the Hatch), then I can see why he wants to get to the compound & see Ben so badly.

There seemed to maybe be a C4 pack on the workbench near the chess computer. So, if you were a Lostie, and you saw something you recognized as useful (nice stable non-Arzt destroying explosives), why wouldn't you grab some.
... He saw the pack, but maybe he didn't know many others were deployed in the basement. Maybe his question was mostly genuine?

But one thing I loved about this episode is the characters asked the questions we ask at home. For once! :)
First, I had to grin at (nice stable non-Arzt destroying explosives).
Hmm, well, if he DID get the C4 from the computer table, then I believe that his question could've been genuine. I also think it was his way of whining about not being told "everything." I think he wants to be always considered and included in any plans or discussions, so he can throw in what he considers his valuable comments.

Yeah, a couple times, my kid says, "I bet they put that question in for the audience!" lol

I think it would be obvious to most that the writers keep having Sayid challange Locke's mystical beliefs only to prove Locke right at some later point. Very common technique in writing.
Yes, very true. Show them being wrong,so later you can show them being right. I agree.

Locke's changed.
The Island changed him. The good little man who did not exept himself became a murderer on The Island. Locke sold his soul to have a chance to be The Great and to walk by his own feet...

I've never thought that he was as "Good" as he seems. He is starting to creep me out again like he did in the first season, which is a good thing because the creepier Locke is, the better the show is.
I've missed the orange peel side of Locke for a long time now.

Locke is finally becoming interesting to me again. I hated the idiot Locke of Season 2. He may still be an idiot, but at least he's an interesting and dangerous idiot. At least he's showing some competence again, albeit competence in carrying out what now appears to be a sinister agenda.

We'll have to wait to see all the twists and turns Lost serves up. The Others, and now Locke, have their own agendas, and it'll be some time before we know how to judge their actions. It's nice to see Terry O'Quinn finally have a juicy character to portray again. It looks like Locke is going to get more and more interesting.

I loved the Locke character up to this point. Its obivious that TPTB have to give us some meat to keep the audience numbers up (ratings). Locke has always had an agenda for adventure. Now Locke has become a soldier of fortune type, killing, blowing stuff and I'd be leary as Smokie may have Locke on its List.

Things we agree on (right?)

Locke doesn't want to leave the island.
Locke will do whatever it takes to seek stay there.
and yes, he does have a secret agenda.We all will just have to wait and see how it plays out.

no not in agreement. locke may want to stay on the island, but i don't think he'll do anything to stay there. AND I LOVE LOCKE. he's troubled and conflicted but all his flashbacks show he's essentially a nice person. strangely, he's the only character i can think of that they have not shown do something terribly bad in his past. he made mistakes, but he's got no great sin like sayid, kate, sawyer, etc. even sweet little clare apparently caused or contributed to her mother's coma. i suspect when we see locke's flashback showing how he got in the wheelchair we'll see another side to his past also.
back on point, i BELIEVE in Locke, I'll be devastated if they kill off his character, and i think sayid and kate will soon be thanking him for that C4. it may be the perfect thing to have along if say you are trying to escape otherville very quickly, through say a tunnel, and want to prevent anyone from following you out.

I see Locke as a representation of those us that have just said f$#@ it. Someone needs to march into the others camp and put a gun to their leaders head and if they aren't giving any information just shoot them or throw them into sonic fences.

All that dharma stuff wouldn't have told us what the mysteries of the island are and Patchy wasn't going to tell us. So screw it, time to start shooting people. If Locke gets one of the big questions answered by Ben next week I'm going to feel like he's the only sane one on that island.

Things we agree on (right?)
Locke doesn't want to leave the island.
Locke will do whatever it takes to seek stay there.
and yes, he does have a secret agenda.We all will just have to wait and see how it plays out.

4. I wouldn't suggest telling Locke what he can't do..

The thing is the guy has lived through 2 events that should've killed him and has been miraculously healed. I'd probably be on a mission to find out WTF is happening too.

Curosity killed the cat or in this case Locke blew up the Flame. In that EP if you watched Locke's eyes there was that gleam of curosity plus he loves games, as noted with his war games in the past. How Locke got the C-4 doesn't really matter. It why he got it? Locke has always had an agenda for adventure.

Locke is a reactionary type. Patchy threw a curve ball with the fence hasn't worked in years, Locke figured ok let see what happens. Locke then shoved patchy and zap. Vivid graphic death by microwave! Locke looked shocked to me and patchy even thanked him for killing him.

Does anyone notice how the others when its necessary will accept death without a wimper?

He sabotaged Sayid's plan to recieve a radio signal back in season one by hitting him over the head and knocking him out.

And now Sayid finds out he's lying about the C4. Sayid has seemed so on point about other people's intentions, but he seems unable or unwilling to confront him.

If Sayid acted like he's been written before, he would never let anything slide after the first attack by Locke.

In fact, it seems he's totally forgotten about it! What was the wimpy explanation given for that again?

Locke has always been about his own agenda and little else.


I couldn't agree with you more. I always thought there was nothing altruistic about his actions since S1.

He sabotaged Sayid's plan to recieve a radio signal back in season one by hitting him over the head and knocking him out.

And now Sayid finds out he's lying about the C4. Sayid has seemed so on point about other people's intentions, but he seems unable or unwilling to confront him.

If Sayid acted like he's been written before, he would never let anything slide after the first attack by Locke.

In fact, it seems he's totally forgotten about it! What was the wimpy explanation given for that again?

i'm not sure what explanation you're talking about, but Locke has, to some extent, earned Sayid's trust through general island survival. When Sayid meets a stranger, he is all about scrutinizing them, but once he becomes comfortable with them, he doesn't seem to worry until given a reason to be observant...I'd say he has a reason now and I hope he keeps an eagle's eye on Locke.

Actually, I think the whole issue of precisely what happened when the 77 Code was entered by Locke is completely unknowable at this point, given the evidence we have and even stuff gleaned from spoiler sources... We do know that Locke said he entered the code when he met up with Sayid outside. That's all we know.

However, it is interesting that the same exact wiring that was used for the C4 in the basement (http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage.php?pid=88472&fullsize=1), and which is sitting out on the coffee table (http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage.php?pid=88340&fullsize=1) in the main room, is only to be found in one other place in the Flame - hooked up to the computer (http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage.php?pid=88180&fullsize=1) that Locke was using. You can look at the first entry to this thread (http://thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=72141&page=2) to view lots of other screencaps of wiring all over the Flame, and you'll see for yourself that the wiring on the coffee table is only found in those two other places just mentioned - nowhere else.

So, what does that mean? It could mean two things: 1) either Mikhail and/or Klugh wired the computer program up to detonate the C4, and then changed the computer program to activate the detonation timer if Code 77 was entered, or 2) the wiring used to connect the C4 was also used to bring the computer back up on line after it had got its brains fried as a result of the electromagnetic discharge that took place when the Swan blew up. In the second case the computer might not have had anything to do with the C4 blowing up.

Here are the possibilities of how the C4 was detonated:

1: Klugh tripped a timer switch in the basement before being captured.
2: Klugh wasn't really dead after being shot, and was able to sneak into the building and detonate the C4.
3: Mikhail activated a timer to detonate the C4.
4. Locke detonated the C4 by entering the 77 Code into the computer.
5: Locke detonated the C4 by some other way than entering the code.
6: The Losties somehow unknowingly triggered a switch to detonate the C4.
7: Someone else detonated the C4 through remote control - probably as a result of viewing what was happening in the Flame over the surveillance cameras.

What is notable about these possibilities is that they have not changed since "Enter 77" was aired. In other words, we still do not know how the C4 was detonated.
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Hey, I'm totally with you on this! I think Locke is doing precisely what needs to be done - he's taking the game to the enemy. I think he conducted the entire situation at the Flame as a good soldier would have: he got them there and maintained the element of surprise in doing so, he infiltrated their installation (remember it was he, not Sayid, who came out of the woods with rifle blazing at Mikhail's feet), he conducted a fairly decent surveillance of the primary function of the Flame (the computer system and communications network), he grabbed some Intelligence, and he then eliminated the facility so it would be of no use to the enemy (that last point is debatable of course whether he actually did it or not). The only goof up he did was to allow himself to be caught off guard by Mikhail.

So, seeing as how you're a Jater, how do you feel about the end of this episode?

I like your idea on number 7. That it was remote detonated from somewhere, but was it because locke entered 77 which possibly was sent to someone indicating that there was a hostile takeover, who had the capabilities to do a remote detonation. And then that would mean that they would have to be fairly close to do that though, wouldn't they?

As far as the fence goes. C-4 makes a LOT of noise. I would think that alone would be reason enough to not want to blow the fence. I'm sure Kate and Sayid (not so sure about Locke) would prefer not to announce their arrival.

Indeed. I would have posted the same thing. If you don't want to be noticed, blowing up the security system is probably not a great way of going about things. Plus, if the tower had fallen over, maybe everyone would have got the Kentucky Fried Patchy treatment.

I wanted to say, I never believe that Locke cause the explosion, just by entering the number 77. On the computer after winning the game, a couple of thing came up. One of those thing was to enter a number for a food drop. Mikhail had claim that the computer cheats, which would mean that he never beat the game. If winning a game of chess was the only way to access the food drop, than how would Mikhail have receive all that food?how would the survive had receive all that food , in Lockdown? . Also if they were under attack, would anyone really have time to play an unbeatable game of chess? I think not. Therefore, I do not think that entering 77 blew up the flame station.




1: Klugh tripped a timer switch in the basement before being captured.
2: Klugh wasn't really dead after being shot, and was able to sneak into the building and detonate the C4.
3: Mikhail activated a timer to detonate the C4.
4. Locke detonated the C4 by entering the 77 Code into the computer.
5: Locke detonated the C4 by some other way than entering the code.
6: The Losties somehow unknowingly triggered a switch to detonate the C4.
7: Someone else detonated the C4 through remote control - probably as a result of viewing what was happening in the Flame over the surveillance cameras.



1. I think Klugh might have had it on a timer. Maybe, miss Klugh and Mikhail do not want to be rescued, so they destroy the flame station to prevent others(re: Sayid, Locke ) from talking to the outside world.

2. Well, as far as Ms. Klugh being dead , or not, I'm not sure. It all depends on where exactly did Mikhail shoot her?..but I did notice that no one check her body, to make sure.

7. I believe that the C4 could have been detonated by remote control, but I do not believe it was done by the others.

8. Where was Danielle ? just maybe Danielle detonated the C4,we know she good with explosives.

Granted I didn't search very far... but why hasn't anyone mentioned this?

Locke yelled at Sayid that he didn't know about the C4... then come to find out he has some.

And then the other losties let it go? Come on... theres a story here from Mr. Clean.

Especially when Sayid says, "You'll have to do better than that!" and they cut away and the next scene they are cutting down trees!

I am seriously PRAYING that Locke explains his plan to them and they agree that it is a good plan and since they don't want to give it away, they don't show us.

PLEASE! Cause otherwise there is some deep tension building between Sayid and Locke that I just don't like!

I think tensions are high, but due to the stakes, Sayid isn't dealing with Locke immediately. It's clear that Locke has been on a distructive path since he caused Boone's death. This is just one more step in the wrong direction.

To often this show just stops and does not persue any further with situations like catching locke with the C4. I have allways felt that Locke knows more about the island than he lets on. And after the last two weeks I'm feel loke Locke was part of the purg that he was on the island before. That all his surviale skills came from somewhere.

Locke is really up to no good. He likes being on this Island and we ALL KNOW IT! (he he). But really - wtf is he up to? Does he want to join the Others? He used to be one of my favorites and now he's really shady. next ep should be interesting.

To often this show just stops and does not persue any further with situations like catching locke with the C4. I have allways felt that Locke knows more about the island than he lets on. And after the last two weeks I'm feel loke Locke was part of the purg that he was on the island before. That all his surviale skills came from somewhere.

I think it would be pretty cool if Locke had visited the island before and that is where he got his survival skills, but got paralyzed there and sent back to the real world, but got mind-wiped before he was sent back (hell, maybe using that crazy machine that Karl was hooked up to). All of his weird intuitions on the island would be because he had been there before (we know mind-wipes in TV and movie land are never 100% effective!).

I think it's quite obvious that Locke doesn't want to leave the island. He blew out the flame so that communicatuion can't be established. Then after hearing Patchy almost out him for being paralyzed he saw and opportunity to keep his secret for a while longer.

I used to really like Locke but his motives are purely selfish. I think he'll get his cumuppance soon.

I don't remember him going down to the basement last episode. Did I miss that? When would he have gotten the C4? Then again, he was gone for awhile while Sayid and Kate were talking to Patchy. Supposedly he was playing chess. But, unless he found another way down, wasn't the hatch under the carpet in the living room where the rest of them were drinking tea and chatting?

I think it's reasonable to assume that Locke got the C-4 from the first floor of the Flame, not the basement. That's probably what Mrs. Klugh was doing down there.


I know there has been a lot of speculation about when the C-4 was placed.

Mrs. Klugh was in the basement, with the hidden door closed, and the rug was over the door. This really does not sound like she was down there working. It sounds like she was down there hiding (because she -not Patchy- would be recognized by Kate).

I would have thought that if Mrs. Klugh was in the basement installing the C-4 that the door would have been open.

If she was in the basement and Patchy was upstairs installing the C-4 when Patchy saw the Losties coming, I would have thought that he would have yelled for Mrs. Klugh to come and help him defend the station/kill the Losties. Patchy shot first didn't he?

Man, I like this idea of Locke being on the island before. Apparently, Ben knows all about the paralysis too. That would explain why the island, Smokey, etc. treat him so well.

New idea - I love it!

I believe Locke's character is one that believes (like a mystical belief) that he's meant for something in life that he hasn't achieved yet. It is a deep sense inside of him that perhaps this is the place to find the answers. He's been kicked around in life, taken advantage of, and his life's path goes in cycles of powerlessness to personal power. In between he waffles and tries to be a team player, but seems to set himself up over and over again for disaster. He's in disaster mode once again.

Yes, Patchy shot first.

Klugh was down there hiding, not planting the C4.

I truly think the Dr. Candle had more words after locke pushed 77. I believe he said the place would blow in XX amount of time. In that time between setting the detonator and meeting up with Sayid and co, he went downstairs to get him a little piece of boom boom making action.

Think about it, if they have been attacked by the "hostiles" before, wouldn't you put a little time on the detonator to make sure the most amount of people are within the blast radius as possible? I know I would want the whole group around, but better yet, i want the leader of the group to be snooping around the shack so it will blow him up.

thats just my two cents.

I started a thread about this in General Theories...

http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=72339

My guess is that there was more to Marvin Candle's message after Locke entered 77, he was given a mission to carry out maybe?

It's possible that Klugh and Patchy were wiring The Flame up to blow when Locke and the gang turned up, I doubt Locke would be able to disarm C4 that had already been wired in, but then again...

Klugh was hiding from who? Sayid didn't know her and he came out alone. Plus when Sayid started out, Patchy had just been there whistling at the cow not sitting in a defensive position.

I agree that Klugh and Bakunin were setting the charge, although I think they were rigging it to the computer as a detonator. So Locke did inadvertently set it off.

As to why Bakunin stopped Locke from destroying the Flame, when Klugh ordered him to kill her (and himself, presumably), he kept insisting there were other options. So Bakunin clearly thought destroying the Flame was a last resort that wasn't yet needed. After he shot Klugh, however, he realized the last resort had arrived.

I think it's quite obvious that Locke doesn't want to leave the island. He blew out the flame so that communicatuion can't be established. Then after hearing Patchy almost out him for being paralyzed he saw and opportunity to keep his secret for a while longer.

I used to really like Locke but his motives are purely selfish. I think he'll get his cumuppance soon.


I love the visual here "blew out the flame".

I didn't think about the communication factor there. Great point. He wants to STAY on the Island.

Klugh was hiding from who? Sayid didn't know her and he came out alone. Plus when Sayid started out, Patchy had just been there whistling at the cow not sitting in a defensive position.


OK. Patchy is outside hanging out with the cow (to each his own). This doesn't sound like he is involved in installing C-4 in the station. Patchy goes inside, spots Sayid approaching, grabs his gun, and let's the bullets fly.

Anyway, where is Klugh when Patchy is outside?

#1 She is upstairs:

If she is upstairs, why does she go downstairs? Like you said, only Sayid was visible (maybe). There would have been no need for her to hide. She would have grabbed a gun (assuming there was another one around) and helped Patchy defend the station. She would not have gone downstairs, closed the trap door, and had Patchy place the rug back over the door. If there is no need to hide, why go downstairs?

#2 She is downstairs:

Why wouldn't Patchy call to her and have her come help him defend the station? If Klugh was already downstairs, Patchy obviously had time to close the trap door and place the rug. There would have been enough time for her to come upstairs and help defend the station.


It just does not make sense (TO ME) why the trap door would be closed with the rug over the top of the door unless Klugh was hiding.

Maybe Klugh was upstairs when Patchy was with the cow. Maybe the station has cameras placed around it. Klugh sees the group approaching and realizes Kate will recognize her. Patchy comes inside. She tells him about the group & Kate. He grabs his gun, tells her that he will try and defend the station, he sends her downstairs (closes the door and covers it with the rug to hid it), and tells her that if he can not defend the station for her to blow up the station.


As I was typing this, it hit me that MAYBE Patchy did not know Klugh was at the station. MAYBE she was using one of those underground tunnels to come to the station. She got to the station at about the same time Sayid went in the basement. Of course this does not explain why she wouldn't just leave via the tunnel.
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I just had another thought.

MAYBE Klugh and Patchy were REMOVING the C-4 explosives?

This would also account for the wires that are apparently found throughout the station. It would also account for Locke finding C-4 upstairs (it had been removed from downstairs and brought upstairs).

I just had another thought.

MAYBE Klugh and Patchy were REMOVING the C-4 explosives?

This would also account for the wires that are apparently found throughout the station. It would also account for Locke finding C-4 upstairs (it had been removed from downstairs and brought upstairs).

THAT would explain how Locke got some... and the wires... and that patchy had never beaten the computer...

I like that...

Man, I like this idea of Locke being on the island before. Apparently, Ben knows all about the paralysis too. That would explain why the island, Smokey, etc. treat him so well.

New idea - I love it!

I thought the same thing immediately after the Russian said that. Then it occurred to me that while the lies and insincerity strikes us as he may be working for the others, that may ultimately be misdirection. And during the commercial break I recalled what I think is a bit of foreshadowing: the Russian saying "I'm the last surviving member of Dharma..."

I believe that's really Locke.

It would explain a lot. And make all of his actions consistent. Why he wanted to torture Ben for info. Why he could predict the rainfall, why he said to Desmond "I haven't seen a computer like that in twenty years!", why his faith was troubled when he believed the button did nothing, "Every moment of my life is as useless as that button!"

I believe Locke has a score to settle with the Others. Whether or not it had to do with him being paralyzed I don't know. But it is clear that he is an idealist, is unfraid of the island, is not afraid to risk lives to achieve his goals, and I think it is because he had been at war with the Others before.

Sayid hasn't forgotten what Locke did to him early on in S1. He just doesn't have time right now to bother with Locke and figure out what to do with him and his lies. Unfortunately, Locke is unstable and we have no idea what he'll do next.... unless you've seen the preview, and you know that he's gonna blow up the submarine and point a gun at Ben.

Here's my question, if entering 77 is what was responsible for blowing the place, then why did patchy stop locke from entering it?
I still have doubts about Mikhail's knowing about the secret menu. He seemed sincere to me when he discouraged Locke from playing the game (he didn't actually STOP him, did he), and it's possible (maybe not quite likely) he had no idea that Locke had accessed a menu when he put the knife to his throat.

So Locke knew about the C4. In fact he took it without telling anyone. So he knew the place was going to blow up. I also believe he knew Patchy would die or at least he would likely died or Locke would have tested the fence out on himself. He killed that guy without blinking an eye. This from a guy who couldn't kill Eddie in his past. Locke's changed.

I always thought he was shifty but he's getting shiftier. Sayid is right not to trust him. So what's up with him? Is he only out for himself?

I believe he is still desperate the keep his secret and keep everyone from leaving the island. He blew up the communications station and next he's going after the submarine.

Locke is one dangerous dude.

Up until now, Locke has been shown as a man searching for his purpose. I think he thinks he's found it now and he's pursuing it in a very single minded fashion. Anyone on a single minded mission can be dangerous. Locke has already demonstrated that he is.

I wonder how far down that road we're going to travel?

Locke is so irrational. He doesn't seem to ever consider what is best for everyone, just for himself. He doesn't really seem to consider asking anyone else's opinion when he's about to do something (He should at least consult Sayid, the smartest guy on the island). Think about it: In the last two episodes ONLY he has messed around on Patchy's computer, which would obviously have consequences, he has taken the C4 without telling anyone, and oh yeah, he KILLED A MAN. Locke, oh Locke. Can't you just think about something before you do it next time?!

Locke, you've given up the right to be believed. :mad:

He seemed sincere to me when he discouraged Locke from playing the game (he didn't actually STOP him, did he),

If there's one way to get Locke to do something, it's to tell him he CAN'T do it.

Well, I have a different theory on this whole 77 thing. I believe that by pushing 77 Locke was given specific instructions on what to do in the case of an attack by the 'Hostiles'. I think maybe pushing 77 activated a timer on the sonic fence instead, giving the occupants of the station enough time to get to 'safety'. And this could be why Patchy said the fence hadn't worked in some time. I also believe that Locke blew up the station of his own accord. As you remember, he had shown negative reactions towards communication from the island in the past, the C4 just gave him an opportunity to rid himself of another troublesome communication possibility.

I would think that Sayid needs to tell Locke that he (Locke) can't make it another week without either killing someone, or blowing something up.

I thought the same thing immediately after the Russian said that. Then it occurred to me that while the lies and insincerity strikes us as he may be working for the others, that may ultimately be misdirection. And during the commercial break I recalled what I think is a bit of foreshadowing: the Russian saying "I'm the last surviving member of Dharma..."

I believe that's really Locke.

It would explain a lot. And make all of his actions consistent. Why he wanted to torture Ben for info. Why he could predict the rainfall, why he said to Desmond "I haven't seen a computer like that in twenty years!", why his faith was troubled when he believed the button did nothing, "Every moment of my life is as useless as that button!"

I believe Locke has a score to settle with the Others. Whether or not it had to do with him being paralyzed I don't know. But it is clear that he is an idealist, is unfraid of the island, is not afraid to risk lives to achieve his goals, and I think it is because he had been at war with the Others before.

It seems to me that the writers are going to have to pull something out of their . . . um, hats, in order to explain how Locke could have been on the Island as a member of DHARMA prior to crashing there -- it's not as if Locke was trying to get to the island, unless you think that his Australian "walkabout" plan was an effort to find someone who could help him get back to the island (not impossible, but pretty implausible given the flashbacks we've seen). I could imagine finding out that a number of the Losties were on the island as infants, or something like that, and I can even imagine Locke having been there when he was very young and having fleeting memories of it, but I think it would be hard to create a believable plotline whereby he was on the island previously as an adult. Remember, this is a guy who spent weeks secretly trying to find a way into the hatch -- doesn't sound like someone who knew a lot about the island in advance.

I think it's more likely that Locke was given some type of "instructions" either right before he got on Flight 815, or once he was on the island (by the smoke monster, perhaps). Hence the "Further Instructions" episode. I don't think Locke is clear on exactly what he's supposed to do, but I think he was given an agenda of sorts and he's carrying out as best he can.

On other possibility that just occurred to me, and that's somewhat consistent with the idea of Locke being a DHARMite but wouldn't require him being on the island, is that he was part of DHARMA off-island and was recruited sometime after his stay on the commune but before the flashbacks in "Walkabout". Remember, at the beginning of the flashbacks in that episode he gets a phone call in which he is called "Colonel" -- the assumption was that this was just arranging to meet his friend in the lunch room to play that strategy board game, but maybe that was misdirection and he really is a Colonel of some sort. Again, though, the flashbacks so far make it pretty difficult to believe he was working for DHARMA pre-crash.

I am still remaining firm that Locke is a good soul. He is neither insane nor evil because in his mind, ultimately he and the losties are at war with the others. So destruction of their communications/stations/ etc. is all a part of warfare. That plus the fact that he of course, doesn't want to leave the island since it seems it would mean being back in a wheelchair (who blames him for that?) explains his actions to me, and they arent the actions of a crazy OR evil person. In fact, he has remained the most constant in his view that the others are the enemy, IMHO :)

If there's one way to get Locke to do something, it's to tell him he CAN'T do it.

Your absolutely right! And it seems as if Patchy knows Locke, or at least about him. Maybe they wanted Locke to push it. Now I'm even more confused about this whole entering 77 thing. I keep going back and forth. Hopefully we'll get some answers next week.

One thing that I do with this show is to try and approach it from the demands of a narrative structure. That is, to write effective stories in a movie/tv format you have to be very economical with the lines that are used in the story. Because of that, the writers don't have time to waste throwing out a lot of un-truths. Instead, almost everything that is presented to the audience has to be the truth, but can be veiled for a time through distorting the perspective.

The audience can throw themselves off by inserting more into a scene then they need to, and thus the mystery is continued until finally revealed overtly by the storytellers. Some people might pick it up early, but most won't. This is important because when the truth is finally revealed in the climax all of the preceding elements need to fit together so that the audience suddenly sees all the links and is surprised to see the truth was there all along.

So, going from that, if you go back to the previous episode's dialoge:

Sayid- "I can see you didn't find anything worth taking."

Locke- "Actually I just played that silly chess game again."

Then turning to Mikhail...

Locke- "And now... I realize why you didn't want me to beat it."

Sayid- "Meaning what?"

BOOM!

Sayid- "What have you done John? That place was our one hope of communication with the outside world!"

Locke- "The computer said if there was an incursion by the hostiles I should enter 77, so I entered 77.

The storytellers only have 45 minutes or so to cram in all of the elements of the story. On top of that, one of the dictums of movies and tv shows is that the storyteller should, as much as possible "show and don't tell". If they can show something visually it is far better for entertainment purposes that to have characters explain it.

What I took from the whole issue of the the Flame exploding was that Locke, who's whole character is based around following the signs of the island, just followed through with his character concept. The computer asks him to play, so he plays. Eventually he beats it, when he does he's delighted and then quite curious at all of the options that Dharma Marvin is giving to him. When he finally has the chance to get to 77 he pushes it because in a sense "the island" is leading him towards that.

The important thing here is that we don't see what comes up on the computer screen when he hits 77. Here you have to fill in the blanks but I'm going with simplicity here and assuming that Marvin comes up on the screen again and either gives some kind of "Are you sure?" prompt or just goes ahead and says something to the effect of "You have X minutes to leave before the station self destructs."

Also note... when Kate and Locke are still in the Flame, Kate asks if Locke is ready to go. He says in a minute, and then he grimaces. He's probably guessing that pressing 77 is pretty bad, either through an extra prompt from Marvin, observations of the wiring of the place, or just an educated guess... it doesn't matter too much. Heck, I assumed the place would self destruct when Marvin gave the 77 option. In the end he gimaces because he knows whatever happens is going to be risky, but he's Locke, and he's all about following the prompts of the island. So he pushes 77 and is warned in one way or another by the computer that he needs to leave.

Sorry, missed my point of the last paragraph. The big thing is that he doesn't set the self destruct operational until Kate is pretty much ready to leave. This is important in the timing because he doesn't hit 77, then they rummage around for 15 minutes and then wander out. Instead Kate is saying, "lets go" and then he hits the button.

So... going back to the dialogue, from a writers perspective everything is explained their through action and dialogue. Locke would have said something to the effect of "you didn't want me to win because it gives the option to blow up the whole place", and likewise with Sayid he says that "The computer said if there was an incursion by the hostiles I should enter 77, so I entered 77." From Locke's perspective the losties are the hostiles and they did make an incursion on the Flame. Locke is just following what the island is telling him to do.

As for Locke getting some C4, I don't know... perhaps the fact that he was tipped off that the place was going to blow he was able to quickly find some and yank it down. Another poster mentioned that the wiring looked like there could be C4 by the computer. Perhaps he just saw it laying there. The way the place blows up sure makes it look like the stuff is all over the place and not just in the basement.

I don't think the others were in the process of wiring the place to blow. The Marvin prompts are old and it's obvious that code 77 was a self destruct option. Besides, the wiring of the C4 in the basement looked rather sturdy and premanent. The wires were not just dangling everywhere but neating laid out on the walls. If they had been wiring the place quickly then they wouldn't have been so fastidous about its installation.

Of course, is this episode we find Locke lying, when he says to Sayid "Well if you warned me that the basement was rigged with C4 I might have been a little more careful." Now, normally I'm assuming everything that characters say are the truth, following the demands of narrative storytelling, but every once in awhile a character does lie, but they don't toss the lies out willy nilly, instead it has to be built into the current story that it's a lie. So later on in the episdoe we find out that Locke has been deceptive to the rest of the group when the C4 shows up in his bag.

One thing about Locke's character is that he lets people take whatever perspective is convienent for him at the time. So when he explains that he was just following what the computer said to do, he just left it at that. Perhaps I'm wrong and he didn't know that the place was going to blow up necessarily by pressing 77, but my guess from the pieces is that he was just letting the existing perceptions run as long as they could.

Oh, and one last thing about this and last epsidoe... has nothing to do with Locke...

In the previous episode, when Kate is leaving the flame, they went to the trouble of focusing on her picking up a bunch of batteries. This epsidoe we see on the map that there are subterrainian tunnels. One can assume some travel underground with flashlights soon...

...well, I hate to say it, but it appears that Locke is developing a God Complex,

Namaste Lija :) - which, depending on how you translate it, may mean; I honour the place in you which is of Love, of Truth, of Light and of Peace.

Or, I salute the potential to become a God that lies within you.

When it comes to Johnathan ...your opinion is as valid as anyone's. ;) ~ Namaste.

Wow, harpy - excellent summation!

Here's my question, if entering 77 is what was responsible for blowing the place, then why did patchy stop locke from entering it? It's not like Patchy cares if they all die. Yeah he would die, but he'd take out everyone else with him. I have a feeling that Locke's pushing 77 was a good thing. i didn't think so at first, and that is the reason why patchy and klough were gonna blow it up, so no one could have access to the computer to enter 77. does anybody see where I'm coming from with this?

Totally with you on this. I'm really really surprised that sooooooo many people are ready to assume Locke is evil or somehow working against his fellow survivors. This situation, if you were to really stop and think about all the implications of what these people are going through, is so complex, and so delicate, and it seems that even the survivors themselves, let alone the audience, seem to not really grasp that. Locke is too much of a thinker to be haphazardly doing the things he does. He's a character that thinks about potential consequences...granted, he would gain an aweful lot of credibility if he told EVERYONE that he was in a wheelchair when he got on the plane and when he woke up on the beach, his legs worked again...but I can also ascribe his reluctance to do so to the fact that being in that chair was a very traumatic experience. (How many rape victims do you know announce that traumatic detail of their past on their first encounters with new people? It's not necessarily an ice breaker, you know?)
100%
One thing that I do with this show is to try and approach it from the demands of a narrative structure. That is, to write effective stories in a movie/tv format you have to be very economical with the lines that are used in the story. Because of that, the writers don't have time to waste throwing out a lot of un-truths. Instead, almost everything that is presented to the audience has to be the truth, but can be veiled for a time through distorting the perspective.

The audience can throw themselves off by inserting more into a scene then they need to, and thus the mystery is continued until finally revealed overtly by the storytellers. Some people might pick it up early, but most won't. This is important because when the truth is finally revealed in the climax all of the preceding elements need to fit together so that the audience suddenly sees all the links and is surprised to see the truth was there all along.

So, going from that, if you go back to the previous episode's dialoge:

Sayid- "I can see you didn't find anything worth taking."

Locke- "Actually I just played that silly chess game again."

Then turning to Mikhail...

Locke- "And now... I realize why you didn't want me to beat it."

Sayid- "Meaning what?"

BOOM!

Sayid- "What have you done John? That place was our one hope of communication with the outside world!"

Locke- "The computer said if there was an incursion by the hostiles I should enter 77, so I entered 77.

The storytellers only have 45 minutes or so to cram in all of the elements of the story. On top of that, one of the dictums of movies and tv shows is that the storyteller should, as much as possible "show and don't tell". If they can show something visually it is far better for entertainment purposes that to have characters explain it.

What I took from the whole issue of the the Flame exploding was that Locke, who's whole character is based around following the signs of the island, just followed through with his character concept. The computer asks him to play, so he plays. Eventually he beats it, when he does he's delighted and then quite curious at all of the options that Dharma Marvin is giving to him. When he finally has the chance to get to 77 he pushes it because in a sense "the island" is leading him towards that.

The important thing here is that we don't see what comes up on the computer screen when he hits 77. Here you have to fill in the blanks but I'm going with simplicity here and assuming that Marvin comes up on the screen again and either gives some kind of "Are you sure?" prompt or just goes ahead and says something to the effect of "You have X minutes to leave before the station self destructs."

Also note... when Kate and Locke are still in the Flame, Kate asks if Locke is ready to go. He says in a minute, and then he grimaces. He's probably guessing that pressing 77 is pretty bad, either through an extra prompt from Marvin, observations of the wiring of the place, or just an educated guess... it doesn't matter too much. Heck, I assumed the place would self destruct when Marvin gave the 77 option. In the end he gimaces because he knows whatever happens is going to be risky, but he's Locke, and he's all about following the prompts of the island. So he pushes 77 and is warned in one way or another by the computer that he needs to leave.

Sorry, missed my point of the last paragraph. The big thing is that he doesn't set the self destruct operational until Kate is pretty much ready to leave. This is important in the timing because he doesn't hit 77, then they rummage around for 15 minutes and then wander out. Instead Kate is saying, "lets go" and then he hits the button.

So... going back to the dialogue, from a writers perspective everything is explained their through action and dialogue. Locke would have said something to the effect of "you didn't want me to win because it gives the option to blow up the whole place", and likewise with Sayid he says that "The computer said if there was an incursion by the hostiles I should enter 77, so I entered 77." From Locke's perspective the losties are the hostiles and they did make an incursion on the Flame. Locke is just following what the island is telling him to do.

As for Locke getting some C4, I don't know... perhaps the fact that he was tipped off that the place was going to blow he was able to quickly find some and yank it down. Another poster mentioned that the wiring looked like there could be C4 by the computer. Perhaps he just saw it laying there. The way the place blows up sure makes it look like the stuff is all over the place and not just in the basement.

I don't think the others were in the process of wiring the place to blow. The Marvin prompts are old and it's obvious that code 77 was a self destruct option. Besides, the wiring of the C4 in the basement looked rather sturdy and premanent. The wires were not just dangling everywhere but neating laid out on the walls. If they had been wiring the place quickly then they wouldn't have been so fastidous about its installation.

Of course, is this episode we find Locke lying, when he says to Sayid "Well if you warned me that the basement was rigged with C4 I might have been a little more careful." Now, normally I'm assuming everything that characters say are the truth, following the demands of narrative storytelling, but every once in awhile a character does lie, but they don't toss the lies out willy nilly, instead it has to be built into the current story that it's a lie. So later on in the episdoe we find out that Locke has been deceptive to the rest of the group when the C4 shows up in his bag.

One thing about Locke's character is that he lets people take whatever perspective is convienent for him at the time. So when he explains that he was just following what the computer said to do, he just left it at that. Perhaps I'm wrong and he didn't know that the place was going to blow up necessarily by pressing 77, but my guess from the pieces is that he was just letting the existing perceptions run as long as they could.

Oh, and one last thing about this and last epsidoe... has nothing to do with Locke...

In the previous episode, when Kate is leaving the flame, they went to the trouble of focusing on her picking up a bunch of batteries. This epsidoe we see on the map that there are subterrainian tunnels. One can assume some travel underground with flashlights soon...

I really like this take on things...I think this is a very important observation, and could help the audience when it comes to several aspects of the details of this show. I feel like we, as viewers, have a tendency to let one or two little twists skew our view for the rest of the show, and suddenly we don't trust anything anyone says. We have to be able to take some things at face value, otherwise watching the show each week is a little bit like masturbation...we're basically getting the viceral enjoyment, but it would fall short of the real thing...

The characters were very solidly forged in Season 1...in fact, it would seem the whole purpose of season 1 was to introduce and align us with the survivors, so that we had a definite, established point of view when the story got bigger in season 2. We learn new things about the island at very much the same pace as the survivors, so it's not so outlandish that certain details and events make no sense until much later, when the significance of these details and events are revealed. In many ways, the audience is meant to be a lot like Locke...we're meant to have faith in the show...to have faith in the story...to be understanding that things are being revealed in the order they were meant to be revealed, and that it all falls into a much grander scheme. The story gets even bigger in season 3, so naturally there are still going to be things that appear a certain way for a few episodes, but will then make sense as more is revealed later. This is nothing new...we should be used to this...

-Dave "The T'saiKlone" (of hollow9ine)

.. but to carry around something so unstable. He could have put himself and the whole group in danger with that thing in his backpack. Why does he want it?
No: C4 is completely stable and harmless unless detonated by another high-powered explosion (i.e a blasting cap). I saw a demonstration of someone repeatedly hitting a chunk of c4 with a large hammer, and nothing happened.

No: C4 is completely stable and harmless unless detonated by another high-powered explosion (i.e a blasting cap). I saw a demonstration of someone repeatedly hitting a chunk of c4 with a large hammer, and nothing happened.

I was wondering about that myself. So it's not the same type of explosion that killed Mr. Artz ?

As much as I hated how Locke was portrayed in season two (never much liked his flashbacks, to be honest) I'm actually quite pleased with the set-up here for his big reveal story next week. .

I think his actions all have to do with the fact that he, under no circumstances, ever wants to leave The Island again. This is his fate, his destiny... The Island gave him a new purpose, a new life. If that means he has to blow up a couple of communication stations, or lie to a former torturer, so be it.

And I absolutely cannot WAIT to find out why.

Shouldn't this thread be called "Locke lies, people die, part 3" You know, Locke lies about the C4 and then Patchy dies, it's a perfectly logical connection. ;);):biggrin::biggrin:

But seriously, I am finding Locke ultra creepy after this episode, mainly because I don't know what he's ultimate plan is and everything he is doing is so disruptive and deceitful, he had no qualms lying to Sayid and then admitting he was lying without even trying to explain. I'm not sure what he could possibly do to make me feel like he is on the Losties side.

I was wondering about that myself. So it's not the same type of explosion that killed Mr. Artz ?
c4 and dynamite are very different things

Shouldn't this thread be called "Locke lies, people die, part 3" You know, Locke lies about the C4 and then Patchy dies, it's a perfectly logical connection. ;);):biggrin::biggrin:

But seriously, I am finding Locke ultra creepy after this episode, mainly because I don't know what he's ultimate plan is and everything he is doing is so disruptive and deceitful, he had no qualms lying to Sayid and then admitting he was lying without even trying to explain. I'm not sure what he could possibly do to make me feel like he is on the Losties side.


I know Locke lies, but so does everyone on this show!! I hate how every character on the show is always questioning Locke, like he has to answer to them or something.
Everyone keeps secrets on the island for one reason or another.

c4 and dynamite are very different things
I see, so the sticks where dynamite. Got it! Thanks:biggrin:

I know Locke lies, but so does everyone on this show!! I hate how every character on the show is always questioning Locke, like he has to answer to them or something.
Everyone keeps secrets on the island for one reason or another.

But Locke has always had his own agenda and who is he to decide that because he doesn't want off the island , the others are going to have to be stranded on the island as well? The least he could do is give the other Losties the opportunity when the time comes, but NOOO!! He has to be selfish and sacrifice the rest of the Losties, just as he did with Boone. No wonder Boone told him he needed to clean up his own mess. I'm not saying the rest of the Losties are perfect, but from the very beginning, his agenda has always come first, regardless of the consequences.

Locke is one of the others!

It's just a guess, but it seems, from what Mikhal said to Locke, that he knew Locke prior to their meeting at the Flame.

My guess is that Locke, being the do-gooder that he wants to be, would not be adverse to wanting to "help change the world." (That's not the exact phrasing of the newspaper article that Mikhal said prompted him to join Dharma,...but it's close.)

We also know that in his excitement to be a part of doing something good, Locke messes up, frequently. It's my guess that Locke was a part of the initial Dharma recruitment, via the newspaper.

At some point, the recruits were called together, shown a preview of the initiative for the Lost island, and told what the would have to do in order to become a part of the Utopian/Scientific effort.

When Mikhal says that he knew Locke, he says that he knew him when he was "para....", paralyzed is my guess. Due to Locke's disability, I believe he was rejected as a Dharma initiate. Knowing him, he gave the Dharma recruiters a run for their money (no pun intended), when they decided to decline his membership.

That's why John knows so much about the Lost Island. When Flight 815 crashed, and he began to become aware of all of the unusual 'happenings', Locke realized that the Dharma group was legitimate, and that they did, in fact, build the Utopian/Scientific society, that he so wanted to join long ago.

I have found many time variables in Lost, and chalk those up to a clue by the writers that time on the Island is not in sync with time off the island. I am just stating this because I cannot make the two time lines jive in many instances.

Anyway, Mikhal knew about John's disability, and his tenacious personality, and drive to prove himself, as well as his failures, which are inherent in Locke. Locke was afraid that Mikhal would "out" him to his Lostie friends, so he pushed him into the fence, and killed him to keep him silent.

Remember my theory here that Locke knew a lot about the Dharma Initative, and the Island, prior to crashing on it. Locke may have been aware of technology that would be used there as well. The fence could be one of those technological ideas that was mentioned during the recruitment,...or Locke may have seen one before, in his past, as a "Colonel".

Locke took a phone call, while working at the box plant, from somebody, regarding the Walk About, and the gentleman called Locke "Colonel". If Locke is former military, that would explain his "abilities" in tracking, his love of the wild, and in fighting (i.e. the knife throwing).

Perhaps Locke told the Dharma recruiters about his military past, and Mikhal gleaned the information from there.

Locke killed Mikhal to stop the Losties progression in finding Jack, and/or from finding a way off the island. I believe he blew up the Flame, as well. Lock does not want to be rescued.

He has a new life now. He can walk again, and he can establish a new life for himself on the island,..yes, even with it's problems,....because Locke knows what most of the "pitfalls" of the island, from his recruitment days,....in theory.

I think locke is going to blow up the sub after that talk with Ben... no sub = Ben won't have to keep up with his end of the bargain.

I think Locke is going to make a lot of people unhappy next ep, but mostly Jack. Locke with what he went thru is going to make a fine "other", he loves that island and probably has more in common with the others (especially Ben) than any of the losties.

That's a good point. Locke blowing up the sub will essentially screw Jack (and Juliet) out of a ticket home. Ben could always say he was prepared to send him but now he can't. Thanks Locke. Doofus.

I see, so the sticks where dynamite. Got it! Thanks:biggrin:

Haha, don't worry - I didn't know the diffrence either. At first I was like, "well, can't it just blow up at any second?!" and I had to have it explained to me that this is different from dynamite. lol.

That's a good point. Locke blowing up the sub will essentially screw Jack (and Juliet) out of a ticket home. Ben could always say he was prepared to send him but now he can't. Thanks Locke. Doofus.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who feels this way about Locke. :biggrin:

The Locke knowing Sir patchalot was also the first thing that poped in my head locks face changed when he said he remembered him in the chair. This makes me belive that locke remembered him too and killed him because of something also patchy mcpatcherson was directing comments at them to locke he mentioned not controling his anger i think this has to do with why he was in the chair.
After this episode i think back to like the end of the second or third episode right before the 1st locke episode of him on sitting on the beach alone and that creepy music playing. John dose not want Jack back. John dosent care about the losties i think he is trying to find his nitch because his button is gone and he knows he messed up and i belive patches was telling the truth when he said the hatch detenation took out the sonar.

Locke doesnt want off the island. plain and simple!
and I hope he stays on there and finds the secrets for us.

I don't necessarily think Locke was being shifty in this episode. I think maybe he was tired of being pushed around and decided to take matters into his own hands for once. Sayid seems to think he's really awesome because he used to be a torturer with the Republican Guard. Sure, he's not proud of his past, but he seems pretty confident about his own judgment, even though it has proven wrong in the past. Sayid and Kate left Locke out of the loop about the C4, which may have pissed him off. I don't think he got his from the basement though - it may have been in the computer room with the other gadgets. Maybe he did grab it without a specific use in mind - explosives have come in handy in the past, so why not now? In any case, he doesn't need to be open with them if they don't see the need to share with him.

Locke killing Patchy could be taken at least two different ways, but I choose to think he made a smart move when Sayid was on the verge of trusting a rudimentary utilities map. If it wasn't for Locke's move they would not have known for certain what the pylons would do, and a Lostie could have gotten fried. This was very uncharacteristic of Locke, which is why I liked it so much...it shows that he's changed. Screw faith...he wants to know right now whether this guy can be trusted or not. On the flip side, it's possible that Locke so desperately wants to be one of the Others that he did for Patchy what Patchy did for Klugh, but I think that's less likely.

Locke definitely has his own agenda - there's no doubting that. I don't think he really cares too much about Jack. First of all, he and Jack have issues, and it was Jack's idea to form the army. Second, Benry (apparently) saved Locke's life, so he probably figures the Others have some good in them, and maybe Jack's ok. Locke recognizes that the island is special for some reason, and he thinks the Others are in on it somehow. Benry tried using that to win Locke over, to suggest that he was special too. I think Locke just wants to figure out what the hell is going on, and whether the Others are part of it, or if they just happen to live on a remarkable island.

Locke has always been somewhat of an outcast, so why shouldn't he operate according to his own agenda? I don't think he will purposely hurt or betray the Losties, but he may not bend over backwards to help them either. I don't think this episode put him in a negative light, and I think some of the other Losties need to listen to him more.

Heres an idea! Wat if the reason why Locke pushed the buttons and why he took the C4 to use for somthing (obviously not the gate) is becuse he knew it was going to happen as in saw it in FLASHES..like Desmond...what if Locke had a flash too cuz he did implode in the same hatch...we wouldnt really know if it affected Eko cuz he died...Locke sees the future?


I am beginning to wonder if Locke might be psychic now. Mikael did say the he would try to kill them when they had their guards down. He also lied to them by saying that the security perimeter has not functioned in years. As we saw it was still functioning when he was electrocuted in it. Locke new Patchy was bad news

Locke is a liar on an island of liars. Very few of the Losties haven't been shown to lie and deceive. Heck, Sawyer's a professional liar. I betcha Charlie has some things he would like to keep concealed. Kate, Sun, Ben. Liars. Don't even get me started on the Others. The list could go on and on...but there are bigger questions that have been raised in this post--what is Locke's motivations for lying?

I'd have to say I really enjoyed your post, harpy, if you read this. The question in my mind is whether Locke is pursuing his own selfish agenda (e.g.; keeping himself and all others on the island as some have proposed) or a "greater good" agenda (which we don't have any information on at this time). Whatever his plan, it sure is interesting watching it unravel. Good thread.

1dimpleonly:
When Mikhal says that he knew Locke, he says that he knew him when he was "para....", paralyzed is my guess. Due to Locke's disability, I believe he was rejected as a Dharma initiate. Knowing him, he gave the Dharma recruiters a run for their money (no pun intended), when they decided to decline his membership.

That's why John knows so much about the Lost Island. When Flight 815 crashed, and he began to become aware of all of the unusual 'happenings', Locke realized that the Dharma group was legitimate, and that they did, in fact, build the Utopian/Scientific society, that he so wanted to join long ago.

I guess that is possible. I would have thought that if DHARMA was going to reject Locke because of disability, that they would have rejected him VERY early in the process before they would have told Locke anything about the island/their agenda. It just seems that DHARMA would do some pretty extensive background checks on people before even interviewing them. I kind of doubt Locke would have even made it to an interview (if his disability was going to get him rejected).

I guess that is possible. I would have thought that if DHARMA was going to reject Locke because of disability, that they would have rejected him VERY early in the process before they would have told Locke anything about the island/their agenda. It just seems that DHARMA would do some pretty extensive background checks on people before even interviewing them. I kind of doubt Locke would have even made it to an interview (if his disability was going to get him rejected).


Actually if we speculate along these lines, it's possible that Dharma accepted Locke just before he was in a wheelchair, but then subsequently rejected him when he ended up in the wheelchair.

Actually if we speculate along these lines, it's possible that Dharma accepted Locke just before he was in a wheelchair, but then subsequently rejected him when he ended up in the wheelchair.


Again, that is possible.

I just picture Dharma not revealing any of their secrets until they actually have people on the island. They probably would not want to take the chance on someone backing out on them and then telling everything they knew, or telling everything they knew before leaving for the island.

Assuming it was Dharma who brought Juliet to the island, they didn't tell Juliet the whole story before she left (as far as we know). They gave her some kind of cover story. I would assume that Juliet didn't actually know where she was going until she got there.

I guess Locke could have been injured on the island (after being recruited by Dharma), but why not keep him on the island?

I agree with those who believe that Locke may hold the key (pun might be intended) to the Island and to his being the greatest threat to the Others.

After the Eko's death, at least to me, it appears as if Locke now has a basic understanding of the Island and its mysterious qualities. In Season 1 & 2 , Locke was curious and searching. Now he is determined and focused.

He has figured something out about the Island, Dharma and the Others, and is looking to Ben to fill in the gaps.

Think about the moment when Locke was captured by Mikhail - with a gun to his head Locke was not concerned at all, if fact he spoke as if he Kate and Sayid had the upper hand in the situation: "He's not going to shoot me..I am the only thing keeping him alive."

I think when Locke entered 77, he learned something more - "Now I know why you didn't want me to beat that game." If he had the C4, he must have known the buildling was wired to explode - why enter 77 if it puts everyone in the buidling at risk? Because he knew it wouldn't.

Locke knows.

Locke has failed so many times:

-Got his pot farming friends busted.
-Knocked Sayid out and destroyed his equipment.
-Lied about Boones injury, leading to Boones death.
-Is responsible for the destruction of The Swan.
-Is responsible for the destruction of The Flame.
-Threw Mikhail into the "security system" and killing him.

Now I don't think it's odd that he was in a wheel chair. :biggrin:

I can't prove this but I feel that he was somehow responsible for the death of Ethan. Maybe it was his gun Charlie picked up after he dropped it?

I can't prove this but I feel that he was somehow responsible for the death of Ethan. Maybe it was his gun Charlie picked up after he dropped it?

It was Jack's gun. Can't blame Locke for everything. :rolleyes:

Lockes blown off two hatches so far...theres something going on with the guy...hes up to something EVIL!!!

The thing is that Locke's recent shadiness is not new. It all started pretty early. This is exactly like the time he knocked Sayid, destroyed the transceiver and blamed it on Sawyer.

The thing is that Locke's recent shadiness is not new. It all started pretty early. This is exactly like the time he knocked Sayid, destroyed the transceiver and blamed it on Sawyer.
yeah...exactly..but we all seem to forget about his slyness once he pulls his famous Lockerisms....we tend to forget real easy.remember when he said '' i guess hell be expecting us'' referring to Patchy(he was still Patchy back then) in the pearl station???Johns really shady.and its all beenthere from the start.well be looking back to all the clues and bang our head we didnt figure it out earlier..im not saying hes one of theothers yadda yadda...im just saying he has a completely different plan to our losties.its him and them..hes a one man army...Locke!

Clarkdog:
Think about the moment when Locke was captured by Mikhail - with a gun to his head Locke was not concerned at all, if fact he spoke as if he Kate and Sayid had the upper hand in the situation: "He's not going to shoot me..I am the only thing keeping him alive."

I took this to mean that Kate & Sayid would not shoot Mikhail as long as Mikhail had Locke (alive) as a hostage. It was pretty straightforward to me.

slightly off topic, but with all this talk of 77... Cannot help but think, if the enter 77 was effectively a security feature for the station- have we assumed too much by linking the explosion with Locke punching in the numbers? If your station was under attack and you wanted to blow it up with all and sundry inside, would it really be advisable to have a game of chess against a computer first to reach that stage? Maybe Locke has set off some sort of alarm for the others to know that they are en route (leading them to stage the american football scenario for their new arrivals to confuse them?). I cannot get my head round to the fact that if you found yourself under attack you would rush to a computer to play chess. If you were going to "act" your way out of the situation, as patchy initially attempted to do, then surely better to set off a discreet alarm.

Maybe the group were just lucky, read incredibly fortunate, with their timing, and there was some sort of short, or indeed maybe Locke removing some C4 just before leaving triggered an electric fault that set off the explosion. If Patchy wanted to blow up the building in case off attack (and he would have been well aware of the basement and explosives), surely a hand held remote would have been his trigger of choice- especially given their leaning towards martydom of sorts.

slightly off topic, but with all this talk of 77... Cannot help but think, if the enter 77 was effectively a security feature for the station- have we assumed too much by linking the explosion with Locke punching in the numbers? I

.

youre so right!!!!i totally agree!!!!!by entering 7 7 we dont know if he set up theexplosion....maybe he did it all himself and 7 7 was serving some other purpose..maybe notifying the others or something....MY BRAIN IS FRIED

I think Locke is part of Dharma and trying to disable the Others/Hostiles. It would work. H absolutely knew about the C4. I think he killed Patchy on purpose.

I think Locke is part of Dharma and trying to disable the Others/Hostiles. It would work. H absolutely knew about the C4. I think he killed Patchy on purpose.
is that even a question here???he practically MURDERED mikhail!!!he did!:frown:

MAYBE Klugh and Patchy were REMOVING the C-4 explosives?

This would also account for the wires that are apparently found throughout the station. It would also account for Locke finding C-4 upstairs (it had been removed from downstairs and brought upstairs).

I had just registered to make this very comment. There is no reason to believe that they were actually wiring the Flame, in fact, with the cow there it seems to me that they were using the station and therefore would want to remove the danger.

I think that Patchy could well have been stationed in The Flame, he had the uniform on, there was plenty of meat and the place looked lived in. He did look a little nervous to me though and we were supposed to believe that he was expecting people to turn up...

It's possible that after the EMP Klugh came with the orders to destroy it before it fell into, for lack of a better term, enemy hands, or that Patchy called for backup after the camera feed from The Pearl was activated.

We might never find out what with both of them being dead, but The Flame being gone certainly seems to suit Locke's purpose of never leaving the island.

I guess that is possible. I would have thought that if DHARMA was going to reject Locke because of disability, that they would have rejected him VERY early in the process before they would h