This is a good one for our Lostie book club.
100%
I find it an interesting read for Sawyer, who is still himself contemplating his own self interest and survival vs. the "greater good".

So that was the book! I had seen "AYN RAND" but I couldn't make out the title. I thought it was Atlas Shrugged, but the size of the book threw me off.

Ah, this has been on my to do list for a while now. ::blush::

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fountainhead

"individualism and collectivism in man's soul"
"man's ego is the fountainhead of human progress"

sounds like a precursor to a Locke storyline coming up.....

okay, should I add it to the list of books I'm reading for Lost?

okay, should I add it to the list of books I'm reading for Lost?

I would say yes but I would tell everyone to read Ayn Rand even if it wasn’t shown in Lost.

I would say yes but I would tell everyone to read Ayn Rand even if it wasn’t shown in Lost.

I really dislike Ayn Rand immensely. I won't hold it against anyone if they absolutely love her, though. I don't judge people like that... But, in spite of the fact that I can't stand her or her philosophy, I still believe that she should be considered "essential reading" for anyone to have read who is getting a high school diploma. I don't have to like her to appreciate the value of reading and discussing her work. Just like I don't like Karl Marx, but I believe understanding his theories about human society are essential for anyone who is aspiring to gain an education beyond the 8th grade.

Read Fountainhead once, particularly if you're not overly familiar with higher quality literature, and it seems amazing. Read it again after you've read some other "high caliber" books, particularly with philosophical overtones, and you realize that Rand really isn't all that great. I'm not surprised to see it pop up here, though.

We obviously differ in opinion on this one (as evidenced by my signature and message quotes). However, I wasn't recommending reading any of Rand's work as a philosophical read. I think her stories can be enjoyed from a purely literary stance. Of course, if someone were to gain a new way of thought or can come to appreciate a different point of view after reading a book then all the better. When I first picked up one of her books, I didn't know who she was or that she even had a philosophy. I just wanted to read a good story and I did (It was We the Living if anyone's wondering).

i found an interesting tidbit of info relating to the book and posted it in this thread.....

http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=72419

this part in particular.....

the quotation which was at the head of Ayn Rand’s The Fountainhead before she removed it from the final, published book: “The noble soul has reverence for itself.”

don't think Sawyer really falls under the category of a 'noble soul'
but it sure rings true with something the Others might relate to themselves
specifically, something Ben might say when defending their beliefs.

I didn't catch the book either. Thanks for posting. I was hoping to find it. I love reading what the writers and other Losties find interesting. My literary knowledge has increased so much by watching this show and I loved books before it. I have been meaning to read Ayn Rand before, but I didn't think I would fully support her outlook. But that didn't stop me from reading Aldous Huxley.

I think Ayn Rand fits perfectly into this episode. Mikhail's description of the little cult the Others have going sounds a lot like a pseudo Randian group, who believe they are the elites of society, the entrpeneurs, who have a vision for society and need to be freed from concerns about the little people.

I'm actually, a little surprised that they had Sawyer reading Fountainhead, and not Atlas Shrugged. Atlas Shrugged, after all, has "Atlantis", a hidden community of the elite of man, who are protected from discovery by super technology and are led by John Galt, the most perfectest man Ayn Rand could imagine. (John Galt would essentially be Jacob on Lost Island).

Fountainhead, on the other hand is about one of Rand's elites fighting against a society trying to chain him down, who imposes arbitrary rules on him and persecutes him for his genius. I'm not seeing a lot of Fountainhead in Lost, though I definitely see a lot of Atlas Shrugged.

(Also, like Ayn, Mikhail is a former and disenchanted resident of the Soviet Union.)

haha guys Sawyer reading the Fountainhead was just foreshadowing of how Mikhail was going to die shortly.

This is wayyyyyyyyy out of left field but... The rock band 'Rush' took inspiration from some of Rand's work, lyrically speaking, and the group's biggest hit song was "Tom SAWYER" from their Moving Pictures album. I'm sure that this has nothing to do with LOST, but I just thought it was a bit interesting in an 'out of the box' kinda way...

This is wayyyyyyyyy out of left field but... The rock band 'Rush' took inspiration from some of Rand's work, lyrically speaking, and the group's biggest hit song was "Tom SAWYER" from their Moving Pictures album. I'm sure that this has nothing to do with LOST, but I just thought it was a bit interesting in an 'out of the box' kinda way...

Wow! I never knew that about Rush. Thanks riles9999!

I can't say that I am very enthused to see The Fountainhead pop up on the show in this manner. The writers would have to stretch an incredible amount to try to imply that Rand's story has anything to do with the show. It seems like another reference just thrown in there. They are doing more and more of that lately. I much preferred it when the artwork referenced had something to do with what was going on in the plot.

The writers probably just tossed the book into the mix to give the fans something to over analyze. I'm still waiting to see how the Bad Twin manuscript comes into play.

I was a little surpised at first to see The Fountainhead on Lost, too, but then I thought about more. While I agree with some who have posted here that the bigger themes of the novel at not much at play in Lost (at least as far as I can see, perhaps the connection is that the book has as its hero a man who chooses to isolate himself from others, to do what he wants to do without regard to others.

Sawyer doesn't share many chracteristics with Howard Roark (the protagonist of TF), but they do share the desire to be who they think they are on their own terms.

Well... I'll give them one parallel: John Locke and Howard Roark both blow up buildings.:biggrin:

Well... I'll give them one parallel: John Locke and Howard Roark both blow up buildings.:biggrin:

Well, sure! And Howard Roark would (I think) certainly have something in common with a person who says "Don't tell me what I can't do!" :)

I agree with Marksman that "Atlas Shrugged" would have been more appropriate as a comparison to Lost. I think the writers just include books that they like. Sort of like a Lost book-of-the-week club.

I loved both books and recommend them.

BTW, didn't the way that Mikhail was killed by the fence (sonic force?) work a lot like how Project X worked in Atlas Shrugged?

The Fountainhead is a good read, even if you are not into "classic" literature. Sure beats most of the boring drek they make you read in school.

I remember reading an interview with Evangeline Lily once (maybe a year ago or so)where she was asked what her favorite book was. She said that Josh Holloway had told her that she just *had* to read The Fountainhead and that it was a really great book. I only remember because I happened to be reading the same book at the time... But I'm guessing Josh and Evie loved the book and the writers thought it would make a good book to throw in for Sawyer to be reading sometime with all of its social ideas and all...

I'm actually, a little surprised that they had Sawyer reading Fountainhead, and not Atlas Shrugged. Atlas Shrugged, after all, has "Atlantis", a hidden community of the elite of man, who are protected from discovery by super technology and are led by John Galt, the most perfectest man Ayn Rand could imagine. (John Galt would essentially be Jacob on Lost Island).

I completely concur. It would be highly appropriate.

I'm afraid the only thing I know about Ayn Rand is that she thought it was ok to cheat on her husband but was all up in arms when her young lover cheated on her!

Of course that has nothing to do with the quality of her writing or her books. Its just something that has stuck in my head for all these years for some reason. It probably has nothing to do with LOST either. :D

I'm afraid the only thing I know about Ayn Rand is that she thought it was ok to cheat on her husband but was all up in arms when her young lover cheated on her!
Not quite. She was entirely open about her affair with Nathaniel Branden. And she also understood that Nathaniel would continue to sleep with his wife. She just got annoyed when he chose to sleep with his wife at a time she was feeling frisky.

This is not to defend Ayn Rand's bizarre behaviors.

Not quite. She was entirely open about her affair with Nathaniel Branden. And she also understood that Nathaniel would continue to sleep with his wife. She just got annoyed when he chose to sleep with his wife at a time she was feeling frisky

I agree she was open about her affair. I guess the rest just depends on whose biography you read...

And how weird is it that I read biographies of people whose works I have yet to read... :D

I still think it's interesting that it's SAWYER reading Ayn Rand. Now, I realize that Sawyer is our reader, and he's reading everything from Judy Blume to Huxley to Ayn Rand, but to have Sawyer chewing on the notions of self-interest is spot on.

I do think it's more about Ayn Rand and not so much The Fountainhead.

I believe that the fountianhead was just to place Ayn Rand in our heads-if Atlas Shrugged was on there it would be way too obvious-Galts Gulch was a place that John Galt brought the great minds of the world to -to make society suffer without them, realize they need great minds-he recruited them -they would then go back into society for most of the year and work as laborers, cooks, janitors-nothing that used their minds--maybe at a box company, like Locke did? is the island a version of Galts Gulch? We know for sure that Juliet was recruited, and it now appears that Jack has seen the light-interesting -if this is so--why are they there? Didnt Juliet say once that some are not on board like they used to be, some dissention?

After reading the John Locke's a liar thread and this one, I can't believe no one has tied that Locke is tied to Howard Roark's single mindedness, individualism and uncompromising vision shown in this episode.

I'm pretty sure that Sawyer reading Ayn Rand was to show that despite his more humanistic attitudes toward Kate, etc, in the first part of the season, he's moving back to a self-centered, greedy person who doesn't care about the other Losties. That was my take on it. Basically what both of Rand's famous books are about, you know, self-gratification and ego-stroking over societal good, etc. I know almost no one who didn't go through a Randroid phase in college, but I know only one person who didn't laugh about it afterwards.

Don

I'm pretty sure that Sawyer reading Ayn Rand was to show that despite his more humanistic attitudes toward Kate, etc, in the first part of the season, he's moving back to a self-centered, greedy person who doesn't care about the other Losties. That was my take on it. Basically what both of Rand's famous books are about, you know, self-gratification and ego-stroking over societal good, etc. I know almost no one who didn't go through a Randroid phase in college, but I know only one person who didn't laugh about it afterwards.

Don

Come on, now. That's not what Rand's works are about. They are against communism, not in support of anarchy.

I'm willing to bet is was the character that plays sawyer that wanted that particular book in there. I read in an interview that his favorite book ever is Atlas Shrugged. I haven't read The Fountainhead, but I like Atlas Shrugged.

I know almost no one who didn't go through a Randroid phase in college, but I know only one person who didn't laugh about it afterwards.The post-college phase is "Be utterly disdainful of anything Rand ever wrote." Most people get through that phase after a year of two. Then you take a mature view in which you can accept that there's good and bad in her writings.

I'm pretty sure that Sawyer reading Ayn Rand was to show that despite his more humanistic attitudes toward Kate, etc, in the first part of the season, he's moving back to a self-centered, greedy person who doesn't care about the other Losties. That was my take on it. Basically what both of Rand's famous books are about, you know, self-gratification and ego-stroking over societal good, etc. I know almost no one who didn't go through a Randroid phase in college, but I know only one person who didn't laugh about it afterwards.

Don



Actually, I'm pretty sure the tie in the writers wanted to make was Rand's take on altruism and the ego and how in order for someone to help others, he has to take care of himself first. Locke can't Jack and the Losties if he's crippled. Hence the Locke's seemingly selfish and singleminded motives in the episode.



EDIT: I forgot the most important part of the book. In the climax, Howard Roark blows up his own building/creation once he sees that the design was compromised. Sound familiar? Locke blowing up the Flame? Security compromised?

This is a good one for our Lostie book club.
100%
I find it an interesting read for Sawyer, who is still himself contemplating his own self interest and survival vs. the "greater good".

I saw this as foreshadowing for Patchy going into the fence as blood began to spew from his ears and head like a fountain. Oh yea, and the foaming at the mouth too.

OK, I wanted to share something with you guys in this thread. This is from my very first post (http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showpost.php?p=510501&postcount=34) ever here on the 'Lage, about a year and a half ago, about episode 2.2 "Adrift:"



That was my opinion of where Lost was heading at the beginning of Season 2. Y'all see the Rand influence coming out a little there? And you tell me if I wasn't at least a little bit right.

I'm surprised that so many people on this thread think the writers were making this statement or that statement about the story of Lost by showing The Fountainhead onscreen.

Any writer who both groks Ayn Rand and who voluntarily remains a part of the dynamic described above has either rejected Ayn Rand's worldview and thus wouldn't dream of alluding to it on the show, or else they slipped it in as an act of covert insubordination. Or maybe Josh himself did... I would like that.

Or it may be possible that, completely aside from any philosophical endorsements, someone in Accounting discovered how marvelously controversial the very mention of Ayn Rand and her novels can be. Take this thread for example... It's very close to the top 10% of all threads about this epi in both page views and number of posts... and all they did was show the book onscreen for about 2 seconds in one scene.

I guess I'm not seeing your point, other than to be a killjoy to those who have thoroughly enjoyed their journey back to high school and college literature classes, and making connections between Lost (which written by committee or not hasn't made a difference to me, as long as Carlton and Damon are steering the committee) and these bodies of work. Outside of "Are You There God, It's Me Margaret", I have found connections between the philosophical dilemmas in the literature and those on Craphole Island to be compelling, and I love the parallels they've made, especially with classic science fiction like Huxley and Burgess. To say that they threw in Ayn Rand just to be controversial just doesn't fly with me. The classic dilemma of ego and self-interest vs. altruism and the greater good works well here, and I mentioned to my Lost friends months ago that Ayn Rand would come into play really well here at some point. I'm glad it did. I love the 'Sawyer book club' discussions, and hope that he continues to find more selections to read from the Dharma library (or from the books that rained down in the crash of Flight 815).

In the midst of all this literary discussion, I would just like to pose the question: Does anyone recall the episode of South Park when, after overcoming his illiteracy, Officer Barbrady reads "Atlas Shrugged" only to declare that "Reading sucks ***!" ?

The writers don't have to accept Ayn Rand's theories to put her in the show, or despise them either. Like most people, they can appreciate it, or even love it, without buying into it or behaving like Rand or her heroes. Doesn't Lindelof (sp?) like star wars? Howard Roark and Yoda are incompatible.

We don't know how good the allusion is. It could be very specific. Or it could just be very vauge and apply half-heartedly to many different characters.

Locke has the single-minded vision of Roark but Locke is a mystic. He puts a whole lot on faith. I think Ayn Rand would find that repulsive. The island itself could be working through Locke though to destory its own creation that has become corrupted by undeserving outsiders. I don't know.

Sawyer is certainly and individual, and doesn't believe in the touchy feel philosophy, but he is a thief. That is also a sin to Rand. He hasn't earned anything. He takes what others have earned.

Christian reminds me of Howard Roak's mentor. I forget his name. He sort of lost it and went off the deep end as society refused to acknowledge his greatness, and actually worked to undermine it.

Ellsworth Toohey - Jacob? Ben? Locke?


I think it is just a vauge comparison to what is going on on the island, just like the other books Sawyer reads. Maybe we should wonder why Sawyer is the philosopher of the group and if this will be significant in the future. I don't know.

OK, I wanted to share something with you guys in this thread. This is from my very first post (http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showpost.php?p=510501&postcount=34) ever here on the 'Lage, about a year and a half ago, about episode 2.2 "Adrift:"



That was my opinion of where Lost was heading at the beginning of Season 2. Y'all see the Rand influence coming out a little there? And you tell me if I wasn't at least a little bit right.

I'm surprised that so many people on this thread think the writers were making this statement or that statement about the story of Lost by showing The Fountainhead onscreen.

Any writer who both groks Ayn Rand and who voluntarily remains a part of the dynamic described above has either rejected Ayn Rand's worldview and thus wouldn't dream of alluding to it on the show, or else they slipped it in as an act of covert insubordination. Or maybe Josh himself did... I would like that.

Or it may be possible that, completely aside from any philosophical endorsements, someone in Accounting discovered how marvelously controversial the very mention of Ayn Rand and her novels can be. Take this thread for example... It's very close to the top 10% of all threads about this epi in both page views and number of posts... and all they did was show the book onscreen for about 2 seconds in one scene.

Thanks for sharing that, dangerdork. I see your point, and it is well taken.

It seems most likely that Josh Holloway asked to have the book in the scene.

It's not surprising that Sawyer would like Ayn Rand - as a writer she was contemptuous of characters less "fit," weaker, less beautiful, less intelligent than the almost "superhuman" lead ones.

Locke has the single-minded vision of Roark but Locke is a mystic. He puts a whole lot on faith. I think Ayn Rand would find that repulsive. The island itself could be working through Locke though to destory its own creation that has become corrupted by undeserving outsiders. I don't know.

Sawyer is certainly and individual, and doesn't believe in the touchy feel philosophy, but he is a thief. That is also a sin to Rand. He hasn't earned anything. He takes what others have earned.


These were the two things I got out of the books placement.
Since we're going to get a Locke episode soon (not sure when, I'm spoiler-free!), I think they are building up the reality that presumably his character is dealing with, and based on the last episode, he has taken some selfish and not-thought-thru actions (blowing up the Flame, pushing Patchy into the 'fence').

The ego stuff is Locke, and Sawyer had a weird look on his face during that scene where it shows him reading it, like he was disturbed by it. Maybe it's the reaction to the Rand 'theft' philosophy. Or maybe he's learning that individualism isn't working for him.