Here's where we talk about how Claire deserved to feel hurt, but MAN did she overreact (IMO completely). Loved loved loved the ending, though. I wish they'd kissed. But the hand-holding was cute. I'm so happy that she said Charlie can count on her, that she is there for him and that they are in this together, and that he'll be okay. So often, Charlie says he'll be there for Claire, and he tries to be, but he screws up and she disowns him. But now she is saying: I'm here for the long haul and we're gonna get through. And it was perfect.

What did you all think?

P.S. Thank goodness the picnic was interrupted. Picnics never end well on this show...

I agree point for point. She did overact - it's not like he started using heroin again! :rolleyes:

I think the picnic was a shout out to other death forbearers. Charlie was even wearing a red shirt, and I surely noticed he had the blankets Hurley had forgotten for Libby (*cries*). Next up: a little Charlie/Claire sex scene.

Nice idea for a thread! Thanks, Laura.

I think Claire was just acting out her fears and taking it out on Charlie. He was surprised by her reaction too but it reminded me of Rose and Bernard when Rose wasn't supportive of the SOS sign. Claire was expecting to have Charlie's support and she was shocked when he didn't give it. It brought up all her trust issues and her fear that he could turn on her at any second. Maybe not fair but it's her baggage so you can't explain emotions. I wonder how aware Charlie is of her issues. He at least knows that she was abandoned by Aaron's father. I really wanted Charlie to be vindicated in the end and was glad she was told all that Charlie had done for her. Finally she had the opportunity to step up and be a friend to him and she did it.

The hand holding was sweet but dargnabbit, I want another kiss!

I also wonder how much of a sense Charlie has of Claire's past. I think that Claire has a pretty good sense of Charlie's (recovering junkie, member of a one-hit wonder band. brother issues. not much else to know, right?). But Claire's got some major issues that were never even hinted at (or just barely) in this show, so I don't think Charlie knows much at all about her past.
Sometimes I really think that he thinks she's much more perfect than she really is. But then her temper rears its ugly head, so maybe he's catching on... ;)

Finally their situation was somewhat addressed. This is the first time we saw them interact in a positive, progressive nature since their first kiss at the end of last season. They really should have kissed after Claire let the bird go.

Haha, bring on the Chex!

Nice idea for a thread! Thanks, Laura.

I think Claire was just acting out her fears and taking it out on Charlie. He was surprised by her reaction too but it reminded me of Rose and Bernard when Rose wasn't supportive of the SOS sign. Claire was expecting to have Charlie's support and she was shocked when he didn't give it. It brought up all her trust issues and her fear that he could turn on her at any second. Maybe not fair but it's her baggage so you can't explain emotions. I wonder how aware Charlie is of her issues. He at least knows that she was abandoned by Aaron's father. I really wanted Charlie to be vindicated in the end and was glad she was told all that Charlie had done for her. Finally she had the opportunity to step up and be a friend to him and she did it.

The hand holding was sweet but dargnabbit, I want another kiss!

Precisely, Pace. This girl has had a rough go of it and certainly has every reason not to trust people- trust is not something that is easily won, but it is easily destroyed. Charlie should have confided in her; since he didn't, all Claire had to go on was him acting all mopey about her plan (and sabotaging it). I don't blame her at all.

I also wanted a kiss, but I think the hand holding was more appropriate. That was not a romantic moment - that was a true love, bonding moment. More romance, though, please!

I gave the episode a 9. A kiss would have made it 10.

I wonder how much they do know about each other's pasts. Does Claire even know about Charlie's relationship with his brother? They've spent a lot of time together, they might have shared those things, but without screen confirmation, we don't know.

I hope Charlie's starting to realize that Claire's no angel now. He tends to take everything on himself even if he has a hard time owning up to responsibility to others. He definitely carries a lot of guilt on the inside, but hopefully he's starting to see there are times when Claire might just lash out and it's not his fault (though he was lying). I was yelling at the screen, Charlie just tell her the truth and she won't be mad! Tell her! He has to learn to trust a bit more too.

I'm so glad their relationship was finally addressed! Since the kiss last season, there's been basically nothing. So I think it's great they talked through some of their issues and have reached a common ground. I did think Claire overreacted slightly, but I can understand where she's coming from. With the heroin incidents on the past, it would be easy for her not to trust Charlie and be suspicious. But I glad they used Desmond to help fix things between them. There were all those rumors about Desmond/Claire so it's great to see that's not the case, and rather, he's helping Claire/Charlie out.

And I thought it was sweet of Claire to support Charlie like she is, considering how uncertain he must be with all the death stuff. I was hoping for a kiss too, but soon I think we'll get one! :smile:

Desmond's still my hero! How he caught the bird so Charlie wouldn't go. Then he tells Claire everything and makes Charlie look really good. He's a real supporter of young folks in love. A true romantic and I love him for it.

And it's a lot better than there being that love triangle we thought might be coming! Yuck, that would have been terrible!

And it's a lot better than there being that love triangle we thought might be coming! Yuck, that would have been terrible!

Yes, one is more than enough! I'm really glad they left Charlie/Claire alone and made Desmond even more of a sweetie by helping them :smile:

That bird sure liked being carried around by the Losties. It must have had a crush on whomever tagged it!

I was so "awwww" with the message Claire wrote and the accompanying montage. That harked back to her saying just the right things at the mass funeral when they burned the fuselage. I hope there's some real C/C loving between now and the Charlie fb.

I've decided that Charlie should just try to find a desert. Water has been present in every single death scenario Des has envisioned.

Cardie

I love that Charlie just takes care of Aaron without being asked now, and he has regained Claire's trust. I also like that Claire can wake up without Aaron right beside her and not scream "My baby! My baby!"

Desmond's still my hero! How he caught the bird so Charlie wouldn't go. Then he tells Claire everything and makes Charlie look really good. He's a real supporter of young folks in love. A true romantic and I love him for it.
Agreed. I love Dez.

But, even with trust issues, I think Claire over-reacted - or she isn't very self aware of her own issues....
I kept thinking she had PMS or something she seemed so blinded to anything Charlie said until Dez intervened.

And it's a lot better than there being that love triangle we thought might be coming! Yuck, that would have been terrible!
Thank you Lost writers for not giving us another freaking love triangle. Loved the C/C relationship tonight and nice to see that Claire does actually care for Charlie and she's ready to be a friend. Would have liked a kiss (or a hug) but giving the very slow pace of their relationship, the hand holding seemed appropriate.

I loved the look on Charlie's face when Claire came back and told him she knew everything. He seemed pretty pleased with himself for dying three times in her honour. It had to have scored him major points. Hee.

I loved the look on Charlie's face when Claire came back and told him she knew everything. He seemed pretty pleased with himself for dying three times in her honour. It had to have scored him major points. Hee.

I agree Pace. Knowing that someone would die for you has to score points. This relationship just has to move forward. The writers can't kill Charlie off now, they just can't!

I agree Pace. Knowing that someone would die for you has to score points. This relationship just has to move forward. The writers can't kill Charlie off now, they just can't!

Agreed! But at the same time, TPTB are cruel and would kill off Charlie once he's figured out his issues with Claire... :frown: Resolving one's issues is a great way to die on the island.

Good point Zoe, but I refuse to think the worst. There is so much the writers can explore with C/C.

I think TPTB have finally remembered that it was cuteness viewers always loved about Charlie and Claire - not petty squabbles, trust issues and possessiveness.

I'm fine with the no kissing thing. I like the chasteness of the C/C romance. For me their subtle moments of intimacy are often more powerful than say...Kate and Sawyer sucking face and humping each other against their cage bars (sorry Skaters!).

Suggestions for C&C to progress further...

Charlie should quit lying to Claire and hiding important things from her
Claire must keep to her promise of togetherness - not bail if things get tough
Charlie and Claire should both stop using Aaron to get at each other

All I could think of was Charlie get away from that emotional time bomb called Claire. This is another flawed lostie for sure..............and "drum roll please" with Daddy issues. I can't help but think that AS LONG AS CHARLIE'S WITH HER HE'S GONNA DIE. I certainly hope I'm wrong but given a cchoice I'll pick Charlie over Claire. But of course opinions are like belly buttons....we all have one.:biggrin:

Suggestions for C&C to progress further...

Charlie should quit lying to Claire and hiding important things from her
Claire must keep to her promise of togetherness - not bail if things get tough
Charlie and Claire should both stop using Aaron to get at each other

That simply makes too much sense Cap. You'd make a great relationship counselor. ;)

I agree I like their chasteness, and they did progress in more important ways than just physically in this ep. But they do need to progress physically at some point or they'll just be stuck as good friends. But I think it's happening very naturally. As they work through their issues and get closer they'll reach the point where they want to be physically closer too and that will just happen.

I really hope this relationship doesn't kill him! :frown:

they are so cute together. I was very glad in the end when they made up. I agree that Charlie needs to stop lying to Claire. They will get along much better when he does.

I think he lies in part also because he's afraid to trust. Claire turns on him so fast he's afraid anything she finds out about him will cause her to want to toss him out. He has to learn to trust the relationship more and I think Claire reaching out to him here was a big step in building that trust. Hopefully he'll quit with the lying now that she's committed to him.

Yeah Charlie keeps things from Claire because he has this immense inner need to be her hero, her protector, to prove to her that as long as he has a choice, that he will always be there for her. And Aaron too, of course.

But I feel bad for Charlie because he just keeps getting all this bad stuff dumped on him over and over again. And he has -learned- from the way Claire reacts to bad news that he'd rather not tell her and stay in the "house"...than tell her and end up in the "cheap *** apartment."

That's true, and on a more practical level, I read another poster on another board make the point that Charlie didn't tell Claire the truth because the truth sounds crazy and there's still a part of Charlie that doesn't want to believe it himself. If he tells Claire, it will make it more real in his mind and he doesn't want that.

That's true, and on a more practical level, I read another poster on another board make the point that Charlie didn't tell Claire the truth because the truth sounds crazy and there's still a part of Charlie that doesn't want to believe it himself. If he tells Claire, it will make it more real in his mind and he doesn't want that.

Very true. Some cancer patients don't want to talk about cancer. Some of us were 'if we pretend its not there then life won't be so bad'.

They are back to being the 'cute' couple again. Now let them have five minutes of happy pretty please.....

I think he lies in part also because he's afraid to trust. Claire turns on him so fast he's afraid anything she finds out about him will cause her to want to toss him out.

Sometimes I think Charlie is just plain afraid. Claire may look cute and petite, but she has a very volatile temper. Claire doesn't just yell at Charlie either. Often she'll be pounding and slapping him too. Charlie wouldn't dream of hitting Claire back so he just has to stand there and take it. The scene after Danielle has kidnapped Aaron is a classic example - Claire is having a fit of grief so she uses Charlie as a punchbag.

:biggrin: I can see why Charlie avoids setting her off...

CI've decided that Charlie should just try to find a desert. Water has been present in every single death scenario Des has envisioned.

Cardie

Woah, good point, Cardie!

I loved the look on Charlie's face when Claire came back and told him she knew everything. He seemed pretty pleased with himself for dying three times in her honour. It had to have scored him major points. Hee.

I know, right?? :biggrin: He was being all bashful, but you *knew* that he was happy about it.

That's true, and on a more practical level, I read another poster on another board make the point that Charlie didn't tell Claire the truth because the truth sounds crazy and there's still a part of Charlie that doesn't want to believe it himself. If he tells Claire, it will make it more real in his mind and he doesn't want that.

Yeah, I think that's true. I also think that he still feels that Claire has been through so much on the island already (and he doesn't even know what she's gone through pre-island!), and he doesn't want to burden her with more problems. I think he was really relieved when not only could she "take" the burden, but she said she would be there for him and they'd get through it together. That's real progress in their relationship, I feel.

I agree. I think the fact that Claire has finally expressed a desire to be there for Charlie as he is for her shows real progress. Finally the relationship seems more equal on both their parts.

I'm really glad for this episode, it really showed some of their relationship progress they used to seem upset with each other and act like a brother and sister, but now I think they're back into their cute ways.

I love that Charlie just takes care of Aaron without being asked now, and he has regained Claire's trust. I also like that Claire can wake up without Aaron right beside her and not scream "My baby! My baby!"

Lol.. that made me laugh.

Some good progress in the relationship in Par Avion. Not much of a romantic buff here but I like Charlie and Claire, they seem realistic. I was really happy for him when she kissed him in the finale last year.

I would find it weird to see them in the same position as Kate and Sawyer in "I Do". I dunno why but their romance seems a lot more innocent than that. :rolleyes:

Sometimes I think Charlie is just plain afraid. Claire may look cute and petite, but she has a very volatile temper. Claire doesn't just yell at Charlie either. Often she'll be pounding and slapping him too. Charlie wouldn't dream of hitting Claire back so he just has to stand there and take it. The scene after Danielle has kidnapped Aaron is a classic example - Claire is having a fit of grief so she uses Charlie as a punchbag.

:biggrin: I can see why Charlie avoids setting her off...
LOL! I've never heard anyone say that before, but it's kinda true. :biggrin: For such a sweet little couple she yells at him a lot. And yes, she has hit him more than once, now that you mention it. :rolleyes: babybrothalova once did a Charlie vid (which is here (http://media.putfile.com/Blurry-28), although I can't get it to play at the moment) that pulled together a bunch of those scenes and I was astounded how many there were. It made it look like Claire's really mean to him, seeing 'em all in a row like that. :10:

LOL! I've never heard anyone say that before, but it's kinda true. :biggrin: For such a sweet little couple she yells at him a lot. And yes, she has hit him more than once, now that you mention it.

Charlie gets beaten up by all his girlfriends. That junkie girl in his hotel room gave him a good kicking and I seem to remember Lucy giving him a few whacks as well.

With Claire I think it gets overlooked because so cute and tiny, but it must be said when she gets angry she yells loud and hits hard.

Charlie gets beaten up by all his girlfriends. That junkie girl in his hotel room gave him a good kicking and I seem to remember Lucy giving him a few whacks as well.

Lucy didn't whack him, but she did shove him out the door and slam it in his face. Well, I guess she had a good reason. :rolleyes:

Claire's temper? Over reactions? Yelling?

Reminds me a bit of a certain doctor on the island.....:biggrin:

Claire's temper? Over reactions? Yelling?

Reminds me a bit of a certain doctor on the island.....:biggrin:

Interesting. What other family traits do they appear to share?

Interesting. What other family traits do they appear to share?

They both cry very easily...neither of them tend to listen to other peoples points of view...they both have little crushes on Charlie...;) :biggrin:

they both have little crushes on Charlie...;) :biggrin:

:biglaugh: Okay, you can stop right there.

She yells and then uses the baby as a weapon, i. e. "I don't want my baby around liars!" Well, good luck in this island, Toots! I love them together but I think Charlie was right when he told Locke she has some growing up to do. However, since he wants to be her savior, I think he will try to be patient with her - like when he walked away instead of arguing with her.
Hopefully, they will all sorts of problems to resolve so that they both alive!

She yells and then uses the baby as a weapon, i. e. "I don't want my baby around liars!" Well, good luck in this island, Toots! I love them together but I think Charlie was right when he told Locke she has some growing up to do.

He never said Claire had growing up to do. He said she had a lot to learn about being a mum and about responsibility. That prompted Locke to point out the irony of Charlie's statement that a junkie would be preaching about responsibility.

I think Charlie and Claire both have growing up to do making the two evenly matched. ;)

I think that Charlie showed a bit more maturity in 'Pa Avion'. The last time Claire ordered him to stay away from her and her baby, he was completely freaked out. This time Charlie seemed to realise that Claire was just having a hissyfit and didn't really mean what she was saying. I liked that he was just chilling on her bed afterwards.

That argument as revealled quite a lot about Claires real feelings for Charlie. Claire saying that she thought of him as someone who was there for her and who she could count on reveals that Claire really does need Charlie. He is her rock.

I think that Charlie showed a bit more maturity in 'Pa Avion'. The last time Claire ordered him to stay away from her and her baby, he was completely freaked out. This time Charlie seemed to realise that Claire was just having a hissyfit and didn't really mean what she was saying. I liked that he was just chilling on her bed afterwards.

I liked that too. It showed that Claire was wrong, that he really was there for her. He wasn't even mad about what she had sad, I think he felt worse about it because he knew he was keeping something from her and that was what set her off. When he saw Claire with the bird Charlie looked pleased like he had fixed it.

That argument as revealled quite a lot about Claires real feelings for Charlie. Claire saying that she thought of him as someone who was there for her and who she could count on reveals that Claire really does need Charlie. He is her rock.

And the flashback revealed even more. Her apology to her mother told us that Claire didn't mean the things she said to Charlie either and felt horrible about it. She never got the chance to make things right with her mother and now that she hears Charlie is "terminal" she wants to do better this time and have no regrets.

Her fear of abandonment really came out in this ep and it showed how much she really does appreciate having Charlie around. That should be a lesson to all those people who claim that Charlie just follows her like a puppy and annoys her. Healthy or not, Claire needs his attention and doesn't really mind it.

When he saw Claire with the bird Charlie looked pleased like he had fixed it.


I would love to know what Charlie said to Desmond when Sun and Claire saw them talking on the beach. I don't think Charlie knew Desmond was going to spook the birds. If Claire, Jin and Sun were off bird catching then that leaves Charlie to watch the baby (who else did Claire think had been with Aaron all day??!). I think Desmond told Charlie to keep out of it and then carried on with his own agenda. I can imagine Charlie insisting Desmond help Claire because he didn't want her to have her idea stuffed up. I also liked Charlies compliments of "You were right" and "It's perfect". Nice backtracking after his "It doesn't exactly make you an expert" snide.

They both cry very easily...neither of them tend to listen to other peoples points of view...they both have little crushes on Charlie...;) :biggrin:

Gotta disagree, Captain - Claire doesn't listen to other peoples' points of view? Maybe she has had her issues with Charlie, but she's had every reason to mistrust him.......being a new mother and the whole druggie issue. I haven't seen one instance where Claire has been anything less than decent to any of the other Losties, nor have I seen her blow anyone off.

I still go back to the first season when Jack couldn't bring himself to conduct a memorial service and Claire stepped in. I generally see barbs being thrown at Claire on these boards, but personally, I think she's a very warm, kind person who has had a rough go of it in life (which most of the Losties have, of course) but who is really a trooper.

I would love to know what Charlie said to Desmond when Sun and Claire saw them talking on the beach. I don't think Charlie knew Desmond was going to spook the birds. If Claire, Jin and Sun were off bird catching then that leaves Charlie to watch the baby (who else did Claire think had been with Aaron all day??!). I think Desmond told Charlie to keep out of it and then carried on with his own agenda. I can imagine Charlie insisting Desmond help Claire because he didn't want her to have her idea stuffed up. I also liked Charlies compliments of "You were right" and "It's perfect". Nice backtracking after his "It doesn't exactly make you an expert" snide.

I know exactly what Charlie said:

"Desmond what the bloody hell did you do? Claire's all mad at me now! She called me a liar! She thinks I don't want her to catch the birds! You have to help me brother. If I can't help her then you have to. Catch her a sodding bird!" ;)

I love how men run in circles sometimes to please their women. And poor Charlie isn't even getting any. :biggrin:


Gotta disagree, Captain - Claire doesn't listen to other peoples' points of view? Maybe she has had her issues with Charlie, but she's had every reason to mistrust him.......being a new mother and the whole druggie issue. I haven't seen one instance where Claire has been anything less than decent to any of the other Losties, nor have I seen her blow anyone off.

I still go back to the first season when Jack couldn't bring himself to conduct a memorial service and Claire stepped in. I generally see barbs being thrown at Claire on these boards, but personally, I think she's a very warm, kind person who has had a rough go of it in life (which most of the Losties have, of course) but who is really a trooper.

That doesn't make her perfect. The truth is when it came to the drugs she didn't hear Charlie out. She still might have been within her rights to throw him out over it if she chose too but he tried to explain to her that the drugs were a security issue and he wasn't using them and she wouldn't listen. She did not listen to his point of view. Hoarding is common addictive behaviour and if she didn't want Charlie around her bay-bee, the least she could have done was been a friend after all Charlie had done for her.

I know exactly what Charlie said:

"Desmond what the bloody hell did you do? Claire's all mad at me now! She called me a liar! She thinks I don't want her to catch the birds! You have to help me brother. If I can't help her then you have to. Catch her a sodding bird!" ;)

I love how men run in circles sometimes to please their women. And poor Charlie isn't even getting any. :biggrin:




That doesn't make her perfect. The truth is when it came to the drugs she didn't hear Charlie out. She still might have been within her rights to throw him out over it if she chose too but he tried to explain to her that the drugs were a security issue and he wasn't using them and she wouldn't listen. She did not listen to his point of view. Hoarding is common addictive behaviour and if she didn't want Charlie around her bay-bee, the least she could have done was been a friend after all Charlie had done for her.

No, of course she's not perfect. I guess sometimes I come off as if I think she is, mostly because I have to defend her all the time. My point is that general comments such as "she doesn't listen to other points of view" are based on just an instant or two with Charlie. Have we ever really seen Claire treating anyone badly, overall? Of course, she's hardly ever seen, which would account for that, lol

I generally see barbs being thrown at Claire on these boards, but personally, I think she's a very warm, kind person who has had a rough go of it in life (which most of the Losties have, of course) but who is really a trooper.

So do I. Please don't take every mild criticism of Claire as being "a barb being thrown at her". I too think Claire is one of the most goodly and decent characters. Could put my comment in a different way and say Claire is headstrong, just like her bro Jack.

I know exactly what Charlie said:

"Desmond what the bloody hell did you do? Claire's all mad at me now! She called me a liar! She thinks I don't want her to catch the birds! You have to help me brother. If I can't help her then you have to. Catch her a sodding bird!" ;)

Yup, that sounds about right. Charlie must have have very mixed feelings towards Desmond. The man is saving his life, but at the same time he is really stuffing things up for Charlie with Claire, interrupting their picnics and then getting him in trouble.