Is the reason it hasnt functioned due to the fact that all of the people on the island (pre-815 crash) were "good" ?? So maybe it wasn't really broken, and Mikhail was trying to tell them that it hasnt functioned in years due to that fact

But - since he killed one of his own, he was no longer "good", and thats why the security system killed him

Also makes you wonder what Mikhail did originally to get kicked out in the first place...we know now (kind of) that all of the Others are indeed "good" since they obviously bypassed the security system on their way back with Jack in tow. Does this mean Jack has maybe been "saved" or "cleansed"??

thoughts??

Locke had all the reasons to push that guy there. Makhail said that didnt funtioned so Locke prove it but pushing that guy there. so...that makes one more of the others killed by our guys.

I think Mikhail was lying. He knew it was active and he also probably figured that they'd make him go through first, although I don't think he suspected just how it would happen.

I like your idea that 'good' people are allowed to pass through unharmed. But I think it's more mundane and that someone in the village knew that Ben was coming 'home' and disarmed the system til after he and his entourage were safe inside.

Seemed to work fine on Mikhail. . . .

That actor sure did a fine job of dying, didn't he? You really BELIEVED he was being torn apart by sonic waves! I couldn't even look half the time!

I really like your theory and that might even play out to be true, but I think Mikhail was just lying. He figures he's going to die at the hands of one of the Losties, or even worse, by his own people when he gets back. I think it was a last ditch effort to try to kill one of the Losties by having them take his word for it and walk through. He figures he's going to die anyway so even if he gets one Lostie killed it's a victory in his mind.

Is the reason it hasnt functioned due to the fact that all of the people on the island (pre-815 crash) were "good" ?? So maybe it wasn't really broken, and Mikhail was trying to tell them that it hasnt functioned in years due to that fact

But - since he killed one of his own, he was no longer "good", and thats why the security system killed him

Also makes you wonder what Mikhail did originally to get kicked out in the first place...we know now (kind of) that all of the Others are indeed "good" since they obviously bypassed the security system on their way back with Jack in tow. Does this mean Jack has maybe been "saved" or "cleansed"??

thoughts??


I think you are missing the boat here.

The Others didn't pass through the security fence. They likely passed UNDER the security fence.

It is unlikely that it has anything to do with good or bad.

Yea, Mikhail was taunting them to toss him IMHO.
He knew the "conditions" (ala his conversation with Klugh)

I think Mikhail was lying. He knew it was active and he also probably figured that they'd make him go through first, although I don't think he suspected just how it would happen.

I like your idea that 'good' people are allowed to pass through unharmed. But I think it's more mundane and that someone in the village knew that Ben was coming 'home' and disarmed the system til after he and his entourage were safe inside.Agreed. Patchy knew that they wouldn't just take his word for truth... they would test it to see if it was active. He made sure to push their buttons so that he would be force to go through. He said "thank you" when he was pushed in. He clearly wanted to be killed.
100%
Seemed to work fine on Mikhail. . . .

That actor sure did a fine job of dying, didn't he? You really BELIEVED he was being torn apart by sonic waves! I couldn't even look half the time!Yeah, that was pretty nasty.

I'm pretty bummed out that he's dead. I thought he was kind of hot. :eek2: *is ashamed*

Mrain01, what do you mean by passing UNDER the security fence? We know that Jack and Juliet went back to the "main" island via boat, at which point they wouildve had to hike it back to the Others little town.

Seemed to work fine on Mikhail. . . .

That actor sure did a fine job of dying, didn't he? You really BELIEVED he was being torn apart by sonic waves! I couldn't even look half the time!

Oh yes he did a great job! My little sister was so scared, "I can't look!"

I like the idea of going under it.

I was thinking back to episode 1 of S3 when Goodwin and Ethan were sent to look for survivors. They would have had to pass through the security system. They either have a way of disarming it, or they can pass under it.

The existence of this fence has a significance that we're all missing. A fence protecting Otherville would not be necessary if the Others could control Smokey. One could argue that the fence is just a redundant security measure, but IMO this is highly unlikely, as we have all seen how powerful Smokey is.

Now we know that Smokey is either controlled by a third (or fourth?) party, or is an independent entity.

"Under it"!!! I'm totally with you on this one. A tunnel network would explain so many things on the island; I think there's an extremely strong possibility that one exists.

I love the idea of a network of tunnels, because tunnels are so mysterious and creepy and cool.

I also wondered, though, how in the HELL they are planning on getting BACK over the fence. Unless they're counting on stealing a ladder while they're in Otherville and hauling that along with them as they flee from the pursuing Others, I don't know how they are counting on getting back over the fence. Geez, at least plan ahead... that more than anything made me want to yell at the TV!

None of you think he was taunting one of them to try the security fence? If he's telling the its broken, maybe he wants one of them to try it...

The existence of this fence has a significance that we're all missing. A fence protecting Otherville would not be necessary if the Others could control Smokey. One could argue that the fence is just a redundant security measure, but IMO this is highly unlikely, as we have all seen how powerful Smokey is.
Now we know that Smokey is either controlled by a third (or fourth?) party, or is an independent entity.

IMO, the Smoke is working independent from a "user". BUT, if the Smoke IS being "controlled", then it is being done by ONE being. and, IMO, that one being is not affiliated with any other group on the island. not an Other, not a Hostile, not DHARMA. just one person keeps, controls and loves the Smoke. (kinda like a pet)

"Under it"!!! I'm totally with you on this one. A tunnel network would explain so many things on the island; I think there's an extremely strong possibility that one exists.

yup.

there has been much discourse about the possibility of a system of underground tunnels for safe travel around the island.

BUT, there is also a chance that the Smoke travels through underground vents, which might be the same thing as these "tunnels"

BUT, there is also a chance that the Smoke travels through underground vents, which might be the same thing as these "tunnels"

Keep in mind that Smokey tried to drag Locke underground back in Season 1....!!

Your right, maybe if they have tunnels that is why you only hear wispers, they are coming from undergound. And smokey always seems to come from underground and he pulled Locke undergound once!
Anyway I agree that Patchy was trying to tempt them to test the fence and die.

what if it's like one of those dog fences???????
maybe patchy had something implanted in him that would trigger the fence???
it's also possible that fence was really meant for animals and not for humans????

None of you think he was taunting one of them to try the security fence? If he's telling the its broken, maybe he wants one of them to try it...

Totally. After all, the chess game cheats, why wouldn't the security system be broken? ;)

I also wondered, though, how in the HELL they are planning on getting BACK over the fence.

Very good question. They probably think there's another way around it, but they won't find out unless they ask someone (good luck) or witness people leaving via another method.

None of you think he was taunting one of them to try the security fence? If he's telling the its broken, maybe he wants one of them to try it...

Yeah that's what I was saying in my earlier post. Mikhail knows he's going to die, so why not have a Lostie go in first. He's going to die either way, so if he makes one die it's one less his people have to deal with. That's about all he can do in his situation.

Possible thoughts in Mikhail's head: If we get through this fence alive my own people are going to kill me. I might as well try and get one of them to walk through first. If it works, I get thrown in the fence and killed as punishment. I die either way, and this way saves me from my punishment (most likely death) awaiting me very closeby at home.

I also wondered, though, how in the HELL they are planning on getting BACK over the fence.

im thinking that they were so focused with getting to the barraks and finding jack that they were not even thinking about going back across the fence.

it will hit them like a brick once they do what they are going to do and start back.

or maybe they (or sayid or locke or danielle) have notions of finding the power source for the fence and de-activating it.

Yes if Mikhail just wanted to die, he would have just run into the fence without being pushed. So, he probably wanted someone else to try it first and die.
100%
Also... I'm sure there are more Trees for them to build something to climb back over the fence again. They certainly aren't trapped.

none of them (locke/kate/sayid/danielle) checked mikhails pulse.

I think you are missing the boat here.

The Others didn't pass through the security fence. They likely passed UNDER the security fence.

It is unlikely that it has anything to do with good or bad.

Mrain01, what do you mean by passing UNDER the security fence? We know that Jack and Juliet went back to the "main" island via boat, at which point they wouildve had to hike it back to the Others little town.

passing under it is definitely more of a possibility after looking at this screencap of the map.....

http://www.lostpedia.com/images/f/f5/3x12_ParAvion_Cabling_Map.jpg

notice the area in the upper left marked "Subterranian Passage 20' deep" and the one on the left edge of the map marked exactly the same. Looks like the one in the upper right feeds off a hatch.

none of them (locke/kate/sayid/danielle) checked mikhails pulse.
When Kate first jumped down I was yelling at her (well the tv) to check his pulse!! Please!!
He looked pretty dead.. but looks can be deceiving.. I really wanted someone to check his pulse, kick him, stick a pin in him.. something..

I thought that Patchy was pretty much asking to be killed.. I have to say that for the first few seconds after Locke pushed him in, I thought he was going to start walking away and as he walked a perimeter fence would come up not allowing the Losties to come in and he'd just kind of wave bye bye to them..

I don't believe much of anything he said.. but I am looking forward to knowing more about the sub

Mrain01, what do you mean by passing UNDER the security fence? We know that Jack and Juliet went back to the "main" island via boat, at which point they wouildve had to hike it back to the Others little town.


IMO, every hatch, except the Flame, was connected via tunnels/ducts..



passing under it is definitely more of a possibility after looking at this screencap of the map.....

http://www.lostpedia.com/images/f/f5/3x12_ParAvion_Cabling_Map.jpg

notice the area in the upper left marked "Subterranian Passage 20' deep" and the one on the left edge of the map marked exactly the same. Looks like the one in the upper right feeds off a hatch.


looking at that BADA$$ screencap of the map, where do you think they, locke/sayid/kate/danielle, entered Otherville from?

if its known, it could maybe identify the hatch on the upper left as the Flame, and would help identify the other hatch shown on the map.

also, this shows us that the Others have passage to at least 2 of the hatches. one, the Flame, being a main one.

none of them (locke/kate/sayid/danielle) checked mikhails pulse.

Are you serious?

I actually do know someone who can bleed from their ears on cue. Wait, no I don't, and neither does anyone else.

Guy is dead.

Are you serious?

I actually do know someone who can bleed from their ears on cue. Wait, no I don't, and neither does anyone else.

Guy is dead.


if you say so.

Are you serious? I actually do know someone who can bleed from their ears on cue. Wait, no I don't, and neither does anyone else. Guy is dead.

I'm not sure how you can be so certain of all of this... not to mention very snarky in your tone. We don't know who is "really" dead, or who is really alive.. this was discussed at length last episode with Ms. Klugh as to if she was really dead or what...
the point is that whether or not anyone knows someone who can bleed from their ears on cue - many viewers have questioned many things we see.. and while I'd agree that most people I know can't bleed from their ears on cue -- most people I know do not meet up with a smoke monster all that often either - and I can tell you.. I am serious about that... nor have polar bears attacked them in a deserted and mysterious jungle.

I'm not sure how you can be so certain of all of this... not to mention very snarky in your tone. We don't know who is "really" dead, or who is really alive.. this was discussed at length last episode with Ms. Klugh as to if she was really dead or what...
the point is that whether or not anyone knows someone who can bleed from their ears on cue - many viewers have questioned many things we see.. and while I'd agree that most people I know can't bleed from their ears on cue -- most people I know do not meet up with a smoke monster all that often either - and I can tell you.. I am serious about that... nor have polar bears attacked them in a deserted and mysterious jungle.

I agree with your reasoning 100%. Its a TV show

But he's dead:biggrin: . Rule #1 in enjoying any TV show. Accept what is on the screen unless you have a very good reason to deny it. You cannot move forward, in your own mind, in a story if your constantly questioning things for no good reason. Its the #1 sin on this board.:)

what if Mikail was NOT lying. What if the purple sky sent all the people on the Island to the time when it was functioning?

I agree with your reasoning 100%. Its a TV show

But he's dead:biggrin: . Rule #1 in enjoying any TV show. Accept what is on the screen unless you have a very good reason to deny it. You cannot move forward, in your own mind, in a story if your constantly questioning things for no good reason. Its the #1 sin on this board.:)

I second that. Blood was SPRAYING from his ears, whilst he was foaming at the mouth. I'd say he's deader than anyone we've ever seen die on Lost. Deader than Kelvin, deader than Klugh. It almost looks to me like they had Patchy die in a completely over the top way so that people would be convinced he was dead, but still there is doubt. *shrug*

Mikhail did thank Locke for tossing him through right before he started foaming at the mouth.

But when I saw that I said, "Why couldn't you just run through real fast and keep running?" The sonic barrier would only fry your brain as long as you stood between the pylons, otherwise, Sayid, Locke, Kate, and Danielle would have also bled out just from standing near it.

Does anyone notice that the others don't seem to care if they are killed? Its like they have this job to perform then along comes the Lostie and the "other" gets killed, even with a thank you as provided by our russian other.

So did the russian get burried or left for the vultures. Has anyone seen any vultures? The island had Polar bears it must have Vultures.

Also makes you wonder what Mikhail did originally to get kicked out in the first place

Halcyon, not sure what you mean by this. Kicked out of what? If you mean from Othersville I don't see how there's any evidence of this, unless both he and Klugh were banished together.

Mikhail did thank Locke for tossing him through right before he started foaming at the mouth.

But when I saw that I said, "Why couldn't you just run through real fast and keep running?" The sonic barrier would only fry your brain as long as you stood between the pylons, otherwise, Sayid, Locke, Kate, and Danielle would have also bled out just from standing near it.

it(the fence) seemed to stop him and hold him in position almost like a net. UNLESS, mikhail stopped on his own in order to die.

The existence of this fence has a significance that we're all missing. A fence protecting Otherville would not be necessary if the Others could control Smokey. One could argue that the fence is just a redundant security measure, but IMO this is highly unlikely, as we have all seen how powerful Smokey is.

Now we know that Smokey is either controlled by a third (or fourth?) party, or is an independent entity..

I don't think that barrier was meant to stop smokey from going to otherville, since smokey could easily fly over the barrier. Considering how easily the losties got past the barrier, it only effectively stops ground animals like the polar bears or ground vehicles.

Maybe Mikail and Klugh were clones and therefore knew that they had to die.

I don't think that barrier was meant to stop smokey from going to otherville, since smokey could easily fly over the barrier. Considering how easily the losties got past the barrier, it only effectively stops ground animals like the polar bears or ground vehicles.

I think he meant that they would just use smokey as the security system instead of the fence. Not that I agree, but I think that's what he meant.

I posted this in another thread, but thought it more closely ties in with this one...
After some thinking, maybe Mikhail's deception about the functionality of the fence was indeed two-fold. First - he knew that since he had killed one of his own, that if he did manage to make it back to the Others' camp he faced a fate of likely certain death. Secondly - he figured if he could take one of the Losties with him before the Other's or the fence killed him, then so be it. My initial thoughts were that the security system had the ability to essentially "scan" people who went through it and assess whether they were "good" or "bad". Since Mikhail killed one of his own he was deemed "bad", and killed. We know that the act of murder has negative implications on the Island as well as in the Others' society.
Kate, Locke, Sayid and Rousseau all circumvented the security system by going over it via the makeshift ladder they constructed. What if we were made to think they circumvented it when in fact they did not, they just didn't set it off. Have we seen Kate, Locke, Sayid, or Rousseau kill anyone? You could argue that Locke technically killed Boone by letting him climb up into the drug plane, but we learned later that in Locke's "visions" that saw that "Boone was a sacrifice that the Island demanded"; so perhaps he was forgiven? Rousseau also said that she killed her crew when they contracted The Sickness, but do we have any evidence that she actually did? I guess where I'm going is that the Jack Rescue Party thought they circumvented the security fence by going over it, when they really just received a passing grade from it when they crossed its boundaries. Thoughts...?

I posted this in another thread, but thought it more closely ties in with this one...
After some thinking, maybe Mikhail's deception about the functionality of the fence was indeed two-fold. First - he knew that since he had killed one of his own, that if he did manage to make it back to the Others' camp he faced a fate of likely certain death. Secondly - he figured if he could take one of the Losties with him before the Other's or the fence killed him, then so be it. My initial thoughts were that the security system had the ability to essentially "scan" people who went through it and assess whether they were "good" or "bad". Since Mikhail killed one of his own he was deemed "bad", and killed. We know that the act of murder has negative implications on the Island as well as in the Others' society.
Kate, Locke, Sayid and Rousseau all circumvented the security system by going over it via the makeshift ladder they constructed. What if we were made to think they circumvented it when in fact they did not, they just didn't set it off. Have we seen Kate, Locke, Sayid, or Rousseau kill anyone? You could argue that Locke technically killed Boone by letting him climb up into the drug plane, but we learned later that in Locke's "visions" that saw that "Boone was a sacrifice that the Island demanded"; so perhaps he was forgiven? Rousseau also said that she killed her crew when they contracted The Sickness, but do we have any evidence that she actually did? I guess where I'm going is that the Jack Rescue Party thought they circumvented the security fence by going over it, when they really just received a passing grade from it when they crossed its boundaries. Thoughts...?

well Sayid was a torturer and while he might regret those actions, i can't see him being forgiven for them....at least, not by the island
Kate is a murderer, and while it may have been done as payback, revenge isn't exactly justifiable,
and with Locke and the whole killing Boone thing....i never did believe the island demanded him as a sacrifice, i believe that's just Locke's belief, or justification.

sorry dude
I like the theory, it is definitely interesting
but personally i just don't buy it Halcyon

I believe that it's simply a security system - whether to keep people out, keep people in, or more for the use of securing the perimeter from wild animals (i.e. killer polar bears ) :biggrin:

There is more to it I am sure.... something that elaborate merely to keep out wild animals (i.e. polar bears) is a bit extreme. If that was the case, a high voltage electric fence would do the job, not a ring of steel or concrete pylons that project focused sonic/magnetic waves at an intruder to kill them. :) the fence is there for another purpose, and I'm just speculating on its original purposes or intent. :)

There is more to it I am sure.... something that elaborate merely to keep out wild animals (i.e. polar bears) is a bit extreme. If that was the case, a high voltage electric fence would do the job, not a ring of steel or concrete pylons that project focused sonic/magnetic waves at an intruder to kill them. :) the fence is there for another purpose, and I'm just speculating on its original purposes or intent. :)

That's a good point.

Maybe they needed something that wouldn't interfere with the electro-magnetic anomaly on the island?

Or maybe the sonic / magnetic (whatever it is exactly) pulse that it emits, is safe for animals? Maybe it has a different effect on humans? I know nothing about this sort of technology, but i do know that a certain pitch can drive an animal crazy, while humans aren't affected by it.....maybe this is kinda like the opposite to that?
Maybe at some point the island had much more wildlife on it making it significantly more dangerous?

ETA: I'm not saying that I think the perimeter was built solely to keep out animals, by i think when designing it, that it may have been one of their thoughts.

We wanna keep out the bad people, but don't wanna harm the animals.

There is more to it I am sure.... something that elaborate merely to keep out wild animals (i.e. polar bears) is a bit extreme. If that was the case, a high voltage electric fence would do the job, not a ring of steel or concrete pylons that project focused sonic/magnetic waves at an intruder to kill them. :) the fence is there for another purpose, and I'm just speculating on its original purposes or intent. :)

I don't think the security system was designed to keep out animals.

"We're the good guys jack".

Clearly, Ben believes that there is another group of people that are the bad guys.

I have been trying to sort this out in my head for a while, so if it comes out all crazy, my apologies.

When the plane crashed Ben told Ethan that he would be at the beach in an hour, correct? It took Danielle, Kate, Sayid, and Locke two days to get to the Flame. They got to the flame by going north only (look north 3:05). Once there, they learned about the barracks. Sayid said that from the scale of the map he believed that the barracks were about 2 miles from the flame. Even if he was off by 15 miles, the timeline doesn't add up. Ethan made it in an hour, it took them two days to get to the Flame and they didn't ever divert their direction.

So what is my point?

What kind of humans can run to a place in one hour when it takes others 2+days.? What kind of humans can be heard whispering all around the jungle when they are nowhere to be found? How was Ethan able to hang Charlie from a tree while keeping Claire from running away?

I think that for one reason or another, the Others have developed superhuman qualities. I don't picture it as an across the board change, but rather, some Others have more developed abilities in certain areas than other Others. Some have superb strength, others have speed, others have some form of invisiblity (I am really open to other theories on the whispers cause I hate the idea of invisibility).

Point is they are humans that are on their way to being members of a perfect race. I can't make any conjectures about how they got there, but something is extraordinary about them.

Putting it all together:
-there is a security system that is designed to kill intruders
-Ben states that his group is good, logically indicating that there is a bad group
-there is evidence of super-human strengths in the Others

The security system was built to defend the barracks against the other Others, the ones we haven't met yet.

Long, wordy, I know, now be nice when ripping my ideas to peices :biggrin:

I don't think the security system was designed to keep out animals.

"We're the good guys jack".

Clearly, Ben believes that there is another group of people that are the bad guys.

I have been trying to sort this out in my head for a while, so if it comes out all crazy, my apologies.

When the plane crashed Ben told Ethan that he would be at the beach in an hour, correct? It took Danielle, Kate, Sayid, and Locke two days to get to the Flame. They got to the flame by going north only (look north 3:05). Once there, they learned about the barracks. Sayid said that from the scale of the map he believed that the barracks were about 2 miles from the flame. Even if he was off by 15 miles, the timeline doesn't add up. Ethan made it in an hour, it took them two days to get to the Flame and they didn't ever divert their direction.

So what is my point?

What kind of humans can run to a place in one hour when it takes others 2+days.? What kind of humans can be heard whispering all around the jungle when they are nowhere to be found? How was Ethan able to hang Charlie from a tree while keeping Claire from running away?

I think that for one reason or another, the Others have developed superhuman qualities. I don't picture it as an across the board change, but rather, some Others have more developed abilities in certain areas than other Others. Some have superb strength, others have speed, others have some form of invisiblity (I am really open to other theories on the whispers cause I hate the idea of invisibility).

Point is they are humans that are on their way to being members of a perfect race. I can't make any conjectures about how they got there, but something is extraordinary about them.

Putting it all together:
-there is a security system that is designed to kill intruders
-Ben states that his group is good, logically indicating that there is a bad group
-there is evidence of super-human strengths in the Others

The security system was built to defend the barracks against the other Others, the ones we haven't met yet.

Long, wordy, I know, now be nice when ripping my ideas to peices :biggrin:

I think it's the underground passages that I predicted in season 1. (really, I did, I promise... I really wish I had proof other than my girlfriend) Combine that with the fact that some of The Others do seem super-human (Ethan opening a can on Jack, Benry not eating or drinking for most of the time he was in the hatch and standing up to Sayid'd torture), and that's probably how they got there. I also wouldn't be surprised if they have some sort of underground transit... possibly more Dharma vans for underground use?

although i just mentioned it in passing up above,
what if we're looking at this security system backwards?
what if it was built to keep people in, more than keeping people out (granted it would work both ways)

What if it was built as a deterrent for the people in the barracks....to keep them from going and exploring the island?
We know that the Others have a hankering to holding people captive......maybe the only people that are allowed to leave the barracks, come and go through the tunnels we saw on the map in last night's episode? And the people who are limited to staying within the barracks and working there are forced to stay within the limits by the security fencing and are unaware of the underground system of travel?

Hmmm... Maybe the real/original purpose of the fence is to keep people in. Based on the map image ( http://www.lostpedia.com/images/f/f5/3x12_ParAvion_Cabling_Map.jpg ) it seems like there are only a few tunnels in/out of the fence that would be easy to police.

I'm just thinking when you consider the brainwashing room Karl was in, and Juliet saying she wanted to go home, maybe the security fence is just another way for the others to police themselves...

(Edited to add: didn't mean to copy you Johnnywishbone - seems we had the same idea at the same time!)

I think it would have been awesome to have a shot when after Sayid or Danielle, whoever was the last one over dropped down, that Kate or Locke realized that they couldn't get back over and said something.

Just so people remember, we are shown the underground tunnels in the first season, Exodus Part 2. Then in season 2 the blast door map calls them Subterranean Conduits

I don't think the security system was designed to keep out animals.

"We're the good guys jack".

Clearly, Ben believes that there is another group of people that are the bad guys.

I have been trying to sort this out in my head for a while, so if it comes out all crazy, my apologies.

When the plane crashed Ben told Ethan that he would be at the beach in an hour, correct? It took Danielle, Kate, Sayid, and Locke two days to get to the Flame. They got to the flame by going north only (look north 3:05). Once there, they learned about the barracks. Sayid said that from the scale of the map he believed that the barracks were about 2 miles from the flame. Even if he was off by 15 miles, the timeline doesn't add up. Ethan made it in an hour, it took them two days to get to the Flame and they didn't ever divert their direction.

So what is my point?

What kind of humans can run to a place in one hour when it takes others 2+days.? What kind of humans can be heard whispering all around the jungle when they are nowhere to be found? How was Ethan able to hang Charlie from a tree while keeping Claire from running away?

I think that for one reason or another, the Others have developed superhuman qualities. I don't picture it as an across the board change, but rather, some Others have more developed abilities in certain areas than other Others. Some have superb strength, others have speed, others have some form of invisiblity (I am really open to other theories on the whispers cause I hate the idea of invisibility).

Point is they are humans that are on their way to being members of a perfect race. I can't make any conjectures about how they got there, but something is extraordinary about them.

Putting it all together:
-there is a security system that is designed to kill intruders
-Ben states that his group is good, logically indicating that there is a bad group
-there is evidence of super-human strengths in the Others

The security system was built to defend the barracks against the other Others, the ones we haven't met yet.

Long, wordy, I know, now be nice when ripping my ideas to peices :biggrin:

I think it's the underground passages that I predicted in season 1. (really, I did, I promise... I really wish I had proof other than my girlfriend) Combine that with the fact that some of The Others do seem super-human (Ethan opening a can on Jack, Benry not eating or drinking for most of the time he was in the hatch and standing up to Sayid'd torture), and that's probably how they got there. I also wouldn't be surprised if they have some sort of underground transit... possibly more Dharma vans for underground use?

1. As far as the Others getting in and out, I believe most security fences do have gates.
2 . There is the slight possibility Mikhail was telling the truth about it being out of operation as far as he knew. We know there is an island wide electronics system and Locke did input a code into the security system computer interface indicating hostiles had entered the Flame facility. Could that code have also triggered a computer activation of the security barrier?
3. As far as Ethan's travel time to the crash site; Do we know he ran the entire way? They have boats and horses available for distance travel plus they may know more direct routes than the Lostee's used.

I would have thought that a security barrier as advanced as this one would also have some sort of alarm functionality. I mean, its been triggered and its killed someone but none of the others in the barracks (which the fence is meant to be defending) seem to be aware of anything! It just doesnt seem consistent to me.

I see two "subterranean passages" marked on the map. At least I think that's what I'm seeing.

I like your idea that 'good' people are allowed to pass through unharmed. But I think it's more mundane and that someone in the village knew that Ben was coming 'home' and disarmed the system til after he and his entourage were safe inside.

I agree with you dollhouse. I think that 'good people' are equally vulnerable to the barrier. Sayid's map shows that there are subterranean conduits that lead under the barracks. I think that is how the Hostiles get in and out.

I can't wait until we see the tunnels! I'm gonna pee all over myself!

When the plane crashed Ben told Ethan that he would be at the beach in an hour, correct? It took Danielle, Kate, Sayid, and Locke two days to get to the Flame. They got to the flame by going north only (look north 3:05). Once there, they learned about the barracks. Sayid said that from the scale of the map he believed that the barracks were about 2 miles from the flame. Even if he was off by 15 miles, the timeline doesn't add up. Ethan made it in an hour, it took them two days to get to the Flame and they didn't ever divert their direction.

So what is my point?

What kind of humans can run to a place in one hour when it takes others 2+days.?

We don't know how long it took Ethan to get from Othersville to the fuselage. Goodwin was the one that could reach the tail's beach in an hour. Ethan could have easily taken a day or two to run to the fuselage. So, there's not really a discrepancy there, and no need to fall back on superhuman powers of speed.

II think Mikhail was just lying. He figures he's going to die at the hands of one of the Losties, or even worse, by his own people when he gets back. I think it was a last ditch effort to try to kill one of the Losties by having them take his word for it and walk through. He figures he's going to die anyway so even if he gets one Lostie killed it's a victory in his mind.

Word.

Honestly, I didn't read through the six pages of this thread, but the above quote pretty much sums up my opinion of the situation. It was a losing gamble for the Russian, but since he had been captured he was on the losing end of that stick.

Either way he knew he was done for. He says it is useless and somene else tries? He gets killed but brings down a lostie. Yay for him. If he is the guinea pig he still gets killed but he offers less to his captors.

That's a little far-fetched. He was probably just lying.

I think he meant that they would just use smokey as the security system instead of the fence. Not that I agree, but I think that's what he meant.

oh I see what they mean, thanks,

We don't know how long it took Ethan to get from Othersville to the fuselage. Goodwin was the one that could reach the tail's beach in an hour. Ethan could have easily taken a day or two to run to the fuselage. So, there's not really a discrepancy there, and no need to fall back on superhuman powers of speed.


Here's another thought, we know Ms Klugh rode a horse to the flame, what if Ethan ran to the stables, got a horse and rode it through the underground tunnels to the fuselage. That might explain why Kate saw a horse near the beach - it was Ethan's. ( assuming of course the horse was real and not a vision)

Sorry if this has already been mentioned - my internet connection is too slow for me to load all the pages of this thread - but...

if you freezeframe Sayid's map, there are two key points that you can read on it:-

i) "Subterranean Passage 20ft deep"... written next to a couple of tunnel-like markings, both emerging within Othersville and leading beyond the security perimeter;

ii) "Barracks" written close to Othersville and the security perimeter... suggesting that Othersville is - or was - a prison. Or an army camp...?

So it's really just a matter of time before we find out more about the tunnels. They're definitely there...

Here's another thought, we know Ms Klugh rode a horse to the flame, what if Ethan ran to the stables, got a horse and rode it through the underground tunnels to the fuselage. That might explain why Kate saw a horse near the beach - it was Ethan's. ( assuming of course the horse was real and not a vision)

That is a good idea. I've only watched each episode once, so I guess I got confused about the instructions that Ben gave to Ethan and Goodwin.

I still say that some of the Others possess some extraodinary abilities. Maybe super-speed is not one of them, but unless Ethan had an accomplice when he hung Charlie he is freakishly strong. There are also the whispers and the fact that the Others seems to know everything about the Losties.

The underground tunnels are going to be so cool to see.

I think that the others have a way to disarm the security fence. Alex seems to be able to come and go as she please and we know Tom and friends have been out midnight boating and jungle treking.

Just something I noticed about that "non functional Security System". On the map, it is directly around the barracks, but the barracks are sourrounded by miles of tight forrest (see S3E01). In this episode, however, the security system is standing on a big area of grass.

Strange...

I think all it was, was that Mikhail knew he needed to off himself to avoid future possible torture in the Losties efforts for answers.

I posted this in another thread, but thought it more closely ties in with this one...
After some thinking, maybe Mikhail's deception about the functionality of the fence was indeed two-fold. First - he knew that since he had killed one of his own, that if he did manage to make it back to the Others' camp he faced a fate of likely certain death. Secondly - he figured if he could take one of the Losties with him before the Other's or the fence killed him, then so be it. My initial thoughts were that the security system had the ability to essentially "scan" people who went through it and assess whether they were "good" or "bad". Since Mikhail killed one of his own he was deemed "bad", and killed. We know that the act of murder has negative implications on the Island as well as in the Others' society.
Kate, Locke, Sayid and Rousseau all circumvented the security system by going over it via the makeshift ladder they constructed. What if we were made to think they circumvented it when in fact they did not, they just didn't set it off. Have we seen Kate, Locke, Sayid, or Rousseau kill anyone? You could argue that Locke technically killed Boone by letting him climb up into the drug plane, but we learned later that in Locke's "visions" that saw that "Boone was a sacrifice that the Island demanded"; so perhaps he was forgiven? Rousseau also said that she killed her crew when they contracted The Sickness, but do we have any evidence that she actually did? I guess where I'm going is that the Jack Rescue Party thought they circumvented the security fence by going over it, when they really just received a passing grade from it when they crossed its boundaries. Thoughts...?

IMO there is no way that Kate & crew went through that sonic fence unharmed unless the were ALLOWED to pass through. Most likely there is someone watching that fence or what would be the purpose of having it? Even if (some have said that the fence is there to keep out animals?) I think they would want to know if there was. The "Others" seem to be watching everything else on the island, to think they are not paying attention to a huge security fence that surrounds their home, would be a little naive.

Oh and Locke, Kate and Sayid have definitely killed someone before. We can assume that Danielle has also, by the way she carries that riffle. I mean, Locke killed Mikhail right in front of all of us, and Sayid was a torturer and who knows how many people Kate has killed. Overall, IMO, I don't think any of them have been given a "passing grade".