Edit: Okay, kind of a funny merge here. My question in the title was are the birds trapped in the bloody snowglobe?

Hmm? You'd think so, but then maybe they can sense which direction they need to go in order to get out.

Either way, I really liked that whole part of the story and Claire's note brought a tear to my eye.

Heh. Ben or some random person will get the note. Perhaps even Claire. Or it will end up with that map that Locke sent up the tube in the Pearl. Hehe.

Maybe they're the Others' birds...

Well, at least she conceded that she had no idea where the Island was. Just not to give up on finding them.

If Penny ends up finding the bird, I am going to SCREAM!!

Heavy magnetism is know to screw up the navigational/migrating abilities of most birds... I dont think the birds are going anywhere because the magnetic anomoly is screwing up their "radar" so to speak....

Scream in a good way STH? I think that would be great, myself. I hope the seagull plot device comes back around in like 2 seasons, when we've all given up hope. I definitely don't want it to go the way of the message bottle.

I think the birds can get out. The EMP changed things. Mikhail told us that.

Either that or the next episode is going to start with the Others shooting down seagulls...

Heavy magnetism is know to screw up the navigational/migrating abilities of most birds... I dont think the birds are going anywhere because the magnetic anomoly is screwing up their "radar" so to speak....Good point, they have small amounts of magnetite in their beaks or something.. My uncle has homing pigeons.. It could be like Des sailing around in circles...

But I hope not.. The idea of birds setting them free is such a great image.. Like doves of hope...

We could look at this from another perspective as well..... have we ever seen seagulls before this episode? The underwater sonar beacon to guide the submarines could have been screwing up their sense of direction or even pushing them away from the island. Now that the beacon is gone, the gulls can actually navigate like normal.... this could mean that there is another island nearby that the gulls were originally from and they can now "see" the island which is why they were coming there...

Maybe they're the Others' birds...

Exactly what I thought. So disappointing though. But it does give them some hope!

Well, one of the birds was indeed tagged, presumably by a scientist. Unless the Others tagged it.

Well, one of the birds was indeed tagged, presumably by a scientist. Unless the Others tagged it.Maybe one of the scientists from Danielle's group.

I have a feeling the Others will find it before anyone else does

I don't remember seeing any. Please inform me otherwise. Get it? Otherwise?.....Tough room....

Well...if they are out in the middle of the ocean, seeing birds wouldn't really be a regular occurance, as they wouldn't be able to travel that many miles without resting/eating etc.

So either they are simply migrating as Claire believes, or the Island is a lot closer to mainland.

We've seen the one in Charlies dream telling him to save the baby

I don't remember seeing any. Please inform me otherwise. Get it? Otherwise?.....Tough room....

I think ocassionally one will fly around. It's like some saying we never hear animal sounds, but sometimes we do, it's just if they didn't edit it out or tone it down, it would be distracting.

ETA: However, if the island was protected in some way, flocks of birds might be repulsed and not able to make it to the island. If the EMP destroyed that protection, maybe birds can now make it to the island.

yea there was the hurley bird

Well...if they are out in the middle of the ocean, seeing birds wouldn't really be a regular occurance, as they wouldn't be able to travel that many miles without resting/eating etc.

So either they are simply migrating as Claire believes, or the Island is a lot closer to mainland.


OR, they are nothing more than a product of the island, and therefore, never actually leave the island. they could of been tagged by DHARMA.

So either they are simply migrating as Claire believes, or the Island is a lot closer to mainland.
Or they are native birds that never leave the island.

Well a tagged bird is on the island...

This confirms that the island is not "sheilded"...

Also that its not in some other "dimension"...

And north of the south pole (seems obvious... but...)

Or they are native birds that never leave the island.

Mmmm...They looked very much like seagull-esque birds; ones that do not typically live on small islands such as their's.

Wouldn't it be horrible if the birds were tagged for some reason by the others!

lol, that would be very "lostesque"

I disagree about the shielding part..
Simply because if we're led to believe that Desmonds turning of the key was the reason for everything to suddenly "go down', then this "shield" would not have let the plane in, nor a submarine, etc.
The shield seems to be more electromagnetic, so that the island cannot be "seen". I don't think it's a physical shield separating things physically inside and outside.

And the island could very well indeed still be out of time.
SHOULD the birds have been migrating at that time of year?
It depends on the duration of the "loop" that they are in.

Am I mistaken, or is it true that we have never seen any birds on the Island before now? Well, except of course for the Hurley Bird...

We see Claire release the bird at the beach,but then we see them fly over Kate and her group. Claire said they would fly south, but Kates group is North...Claire was on a south beach,about as south as she could be and so there is no way Kates group would somehow have lost their direction and gotten more south than Claire.So the birds were now flying north.
Stacy Lane

Well...if they are out in the middle of the ocean, seeing birds wouldn't really be a regular occurance, as they wouldn't be able to travel that many miles without resting/eating etc.

So either they are simply migrating as Claire believes, or the Island is a lot closer to mainland.

Uhm, I have to say that this is really not accurate. I lived in Hawaii for a number of years, visiting a number of islands in the process, and there were LOTS of birds in Hawaii that were native to the islands even before the first Polynesians set foot on the place, including seagulls, which we saw tonight. And if there is an island in the Pacific that is more remote than Hawaii, I'd like to know where it is...

In the last three season , there has never seen a bird on the island, besides Hurley's bird. so the seagulls are the first bird we have ever seen on the island/

R, they are nothing more than a product of the island, and therefore, never actually leave the island. they could of been tagged by DHARMA.

..I didn't think of that. The seaqull could have came from Dharma, since we know they had animals.

I'm sure I've read this somewhere on this board before but I Googled for a bit and found this bit of info. about birds/migration/magnetism.

"...concluding that the birds use the setting sun to calibrate their magnetic compass. This explains, for example, why birds don’t confuse their direction when crossing the magnetic equator. It also should sooth people’s fear (at least in the case of thrushes) that a reverse of Earth’s magnetic field will wreak havoc on migrating birds."

http://biocurious.com/geomagnetism-and-birds-migration

I'm not sure if this has been mentioned, but did anyone happen to catch the note STILL in Charlie's hand, even as the bird flew off?
Was it a mistake on the production part, or on purpose?

If it did happen, it was a production error. If it was a plot point, it would have been called attention to.

I think the flow of the close-up shot into the wider shot of Charlie and Claire sold the idea that nothing sinister was occuring at that particular moment.

Wanting to find something a little too much, eh?

Just a nickpicky question. Why did they only release one bird with a note? They should of caught as many birds as possible. Was anybody else thinking this?

Yeah, I thought the same thing, but given Claire and Charlie's faith in Desmond's future seeing or whatever, I would trust the bird he caught to be the one to attach the message to as well.

My only gripe was why not include some names and such in the letter to lend it some authenticity? If they had written down the manifest along with the letter, it would have been far more convincing. However, I'm sure we all know that the letter bird will end up in Dharma hands (since they seem to have an interest in animals)

OMG... how corny was it when they let the bird go and it just happened to join up with the flock flying past..??

and wouldn't the note like... get wet / ink run, etc?

or should i just suspend my disbelief :)

wouldn't the note like... get wet / ink run, etc?

I thought the same thing. I was waiting for them to put it in some protective covering. When they didn't, I thought to myself 'so much for that note'!

An article that says magnetite exists in birds (http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2004/11/1124_041124_magnetic_birds.html)....

And one that say it not so much exists in the beaks or brains of birds, but a chemical reaction occurs which helps birds navigate by magentic fields of the earth (http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2004/05/040514030725.htm)...

It's possible that the others tagged these birds. there are sharks with Dharma logos on them, why couldn't the others tag birds? I like to think though that they are free and just tagged to track their progress and where they migrate and things like that. I like to have hope that somewhere someone will read that note.

Maybe they should've swung by Staples and picked up some plastic letter covers & a pack of pencils so the ink wouldn't run...
It's a TV show folks!

The biggest problem that I had was that during the long sappy "we're still alive" note (it wasn't really a plea for help), why did they neglect to say it was a creepy island with polar bears, a smoke monster, and murderous 'others'?

omiting that you have had people killed and abducted by a group of 'natives' that wont relay that you have survived (though I guess no one but Jack really has had confirmation that they had contact with the outside world) and wont help you to survive seems kind of dumb.

Surely as soon as that seagull dives into water to catch some fish that note would be ruined anyway.

What would have really been interesting is if Desmond was hunting and shot the stupid bird. And everyone saying the stuff about the ink is right. Hello!

And the release of the bird was cheesy. We are talking serious Velveeta here.

When Charlie and Clair release the bird. I was hoping that Desmond would pop out of the jungle and shoot it out of the sky.

Since every frame of this show is closely analyzed -- I believe the note left in Charley's hand was no production error ... it follows the storyline that Charley didn't want Claire to catch the birds/send the note in the first place .... something's up with Charley beyond the "when is he going to die" thing ....

I was more concerned that they put a paper note on the leg of a water bird! That thing is going to land in the ocean at some time. I can't see the note surviving long enough to get into anyone's hands and still be legable.

I was bent that they didn't wrap it in plastic and make a bigger effort to afix it to the bird. This is a pretty damn good idea actually. If it were me I would have rolled the note into a cylinder. Wrapped that in plastic, then wrap some bark around it to encase it. Then use the wire (I assume) that they used but more securely attatched to the birds tag. The way it looked like they sent it off I think the bird could have it off in 2 minutes. I would also do this at least once a week.
(http://www.answers.com/topic/cylinder)

I disagree about the shielding part..
Simply because if we're led to believe that Desmonds turning of the key was the reason for everything to suddenly "go down', then this "shield" would not have let the plane in, nor a submarine, etc.
The shield seems to be more electromagnetic, so that the island cannot be "seen". I don't think it's a physical shield separating things physically inside and outside.
.

I don't think so, I think desmond's "system failure" is what both allowed the plane in to the "bloody snow globe" and what made it crash. Once he reset the numbers (albeit late) the dome of protection was back in place. (Its temporary lowering being proved by the portugeuse men saying they didn't want to miss their opportunity to locate the island again.) So when Locke caused the hatch to implode the sheild was put down for good and this is why we can see birds now, where none were before--they can fly to the island. For them never to have birds on the beach before IS a big deal, do you know how improbable it would be for it to be a filming fluke, when you're filming at a beach? It must have been done on purpose.

Now me just need to make sense of Mikhail saying that you can go but not come to the island....

What bothered me more was the content of the note. They were getting regular food drops from an organization named "Dharma" and fail to mention that in the note?? Couldn't that fact theoretically help searchers locate them?

For some reason, I got the impression that the birds came from somewhere and the island was just a stop on the migratory path. I'll have to watch the episode again to see if there is anything that reinforces this claim. But if that's the case, the island can be found...well, at least by certain migratory birds.

I don't know why my mind works this way, but . . .

I think it would have been funny (in an ironic sort of way), if the final scene of the episode showed the bird flying through the Sonic Fence and going p-f-f-f-f-t!

I'll bring up a potential connection I found here, but it's tenuous at best. I Wiki'd Par Avion (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Par_avion), and on that page there is a scanned image of a 1959 postcard covering the Australian Antarctic Territory containing a drawing of two penguins basking in the sun. It reminded me a lot of Michael's penguin drawing for Walt (http://gallery.lost-media.com/albums/ep-caps/season1/1x14-special/special611.jpg).

The presence of the birds makes for an interesting talking point. If they are in fact normal birds who have been tagged by outside scientists and are following their instincts, then it would seem the Island isn't surrounded by a force field. Not only can birds land, but we've seen boats, balloons, and planes crash on it. Tie that in with the notion that transportation to and from the Island is done via submarine (being guided by an underwater sonar beacon) and it would seem that Island is in fact invisible to the outside world. The only time it becomes "visible" is in the case of an event like the EMP, which is very fleeting. Otherwise, unless you have a "guide" (like the beacon), you can never find the Island.

Heh. Ben or some random person will get the note.

Hah! As I saw the birds flying away, I kept waiting for the Kablam!! as a the bird is taken down by a gunshot :biggrin:

I think it would have been funny (in an ironic sort of way), if the final scene of the episode showed the bird flying through the Sonic Fence and going p-f-f-f-f-t!Outstanding!

...it would seem the Island isn't surrounded by a force field. Not only can birds land, but we've seen boats, balloons, and planes crash on it.Yes, that's what's bothering me. Nobody looking for the island finds it (except possibly the birds) yet it seems as if it sucks in the unsuspecting if they venture too close.

Am I confused, or just stupid? But I thought that when Des turned the key, the shield (or globe) was destroyed. Isn't that how Penny's men were able to finally find the island?

I understand how Desmond knew where to find the bird, but the only time I have been able to get close to a wild bird is when it was injured.

Why didn't that bird fly away when Desmond got close to it? It is almost as if the bird was programed to sit still.

I thought they just detected the EMP.

You know, a migrating bird project was talked about in the forums back in the second season.
http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/archive/index.php/t-22281.html


Interesting name of the project, as well as the whole 108 minutes thing, satellites, etc.
http://www.uen.org/swan/argos.html

I do believe that besides the "Hurleybird" this is the first time we've seen sea birds on this show. It must mean more than just birds.

It is almost as if the bird was programed to sit still.

Youre on to something there,brutha!

If it is truly a "carrier pigeon", than it should be used to humans approaching it.

Maybe since Desmond is vibrating in various times/time shifts... maybe he's slightly in the birds future... so to the bird nothing has happen yet. No need to fly away. Then bingo! Hands gets yah

If it is truly a "carrier pigeon", than it should be used to humans approaching it.

Who said they were carrier pigeons? I thought they were some sort of migratory birds?

Who said they were carrier pigeons? I thought they were some sort of migratory birds?
Yup,tagged migratory pigeons ,for the scientists to study everytime they migrate from one place to another

Uh, it's a TV show. The producers wanted the bird to sit still to further the story.

Sometimes, a bird is just a bird.

Sometimes, a bird is just a bird.
yeah,but these times are not that kind of times!!:cool:

Well they sure didn't cut Claire any slack. She had to devise a devious scheme involving chopped fish, nets, and traps to try and get her bird. For Des, it was just walk up and pick it up. No problem.
It would be a real cop out if it really was just an easy way for Des to get the bird and has nothing to do with the plot.

thats cos Des is Scot ,and Scots are familiar with birds.:cool:Scots rule in every way

I'll bring up a potential connection I found here, but it's tenuous at best. I Wiki'd Par Avion (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Par_avion), and on that page there is a scanned image of a 1959 postcard covering the Australian Antarctic Territory containing a drawing of two penguins basking in the sun. It reminded me a lot of Michael's penguin drawing for Walt (http://gallery.lost-media.com/albums/ep-caps/season1/1x14-special/special611.jpg).That's a really interesting postcard AZ... I've long felt they're in that area... And the penguins - very odd.. It was so "lost-like" that I looked at the edit history to see when that picture was added to wiki; it was 2004.. Makes you wonder if this could be why they named the episode Par Avion.. Knowing that all of us wiki/ Lost fans would go search that immediately..

If it is truly a "carrier pigeon", than it should be used to humans approaching it.

Since it was indeed tagged, we know it has spent some time with humans at least.

However, as my friend noted while we watched the episode, you don't often find a nesting bird that's so casual about blowing off its nest (and presumably its eggs) just 'cause some total stranger wants it to deliver a bird-o-gram!

As far as the Others, why in hell would they have been tagging birds? If they CAN'T leave the island, there's nothing to learn from them, and if they CAN, the Others will never know where the hell they went anyhow!

And regarding Claire's corny note and releasing a single bird - hey, it's a start, isn't it? There's nothing about this scenario that precludes releasing more birds with "better" messages. And personally, I'm fully willing to make the assumption that waterproof ink was used or whatever is necessary to believe that the message COULD reach the mainland, if in fact that's what ends up occurring. Unless of course the bird ends up diving deep underwater to catch a rare and delicious Red Herring.

Oh, and last but not least - I think we're meant to assume that birds on the isle are nothing new; otherwise, shouldn't someone have made some comment about their sudden appearance?

- mnw

(OT: Since we know that pandemics are spread by "carriers" like Typhoid Mary, why do we worry about the Bird Flu when all we need to do is get rid of all the "carrier pigeons"?)

First off, I'm a birder and a biologist, so I'm not making this stuff up:

Of all the gull species in the world, only a handfull are even FOUND in the Southern Hemisphere.

With very few exceptions, GULLS DON'T MIGRATE.

Gulls ARE NOT seabirds. They are coastal birds that need to drink fresh water and can never stray too far from land (seabirds can drink salt water).

That was DEFINITELY NOT a tag from a scientific study. Tags are usually thin, lightweight metal bands with code numbers/letters, not big clunky things that stick out an inch from the bird's leg. The gull wouldn't have been able to fly or behave normally with that thing on. Also, I guess it's possible, but I don't know of any scientific study using tagged gulls -- they're just not that interesting.

Gulls are SCAVENGERS, so why would they come near the Lostie's camp and hang out on the rocks and beach, rather than on the communal garbage dump (we've never seen one but there must be one).

Of course, having said all that, TPTB probably just used a gull because they're easy to get in the Northern Hemisphere, even in Hawaii. I guess I forgive them :)

And, for the record, we may only have SEEN the Hurleybird and a chicken, but we've HEARD birds in the background from the very first episode, your standard "miscellaneous jungle noises."

First off, I'm a birder and a biologist, so I'm not making this stuff up:

Of all the gull species in the world, only a handfull are even FOUND in the Southern Hemisphere.

With very few exceptions, GULLS DON'T MIGRATE.

Gulls ARE NOT seabirds. They are coastal birds that need to drink fresh water and can never stray too far from land (seabirds can drink salt water).

That was DEFINITELY NOT a tag from a scientific study.

i love that idea!!!!man,why havent we thought of that before,guys???they were tagged for some other reason other that migration and scientific study...HMMMMM!!!!!:eek2::eek2::eek2::eek2::eek2:

... GULLS DON'T MIGRATE. ...

... Gulls ARE NOT seabirds....

... That was DEFINITELY NOT a tag from a scientific study. ...

... TPTB probably just used a gull because they're easy to get ...

... I guess I forgive them.


Right on Kimosquabbie, and Thank You!!

I was beginning to wonder if anyone here actually knew anything about birds.
My wife caught it immediately... "Hey, that's a seagull, they don't migrate!"

Even if it had been packaged sensibly, that note is going nowhere.

I guess I forgive TPTB too, but it's disappointingly sloppy work for LOST.

Of all the gull species in the world, only a handfull are even FOUND in the Southern Hemisphere.


This is true, there is meant to be only about 15 species of Gulls in the southern hemisphere.

With a decent screenshot and a bit of reading, i wonder if we can play Bird Watchers here and identify exactly what species of Gull they are (if they are actually Gulls).

www.birdpedia.com (http://www.birdpedia.com) has some pictures of various species of Gulls from the pacific region, i had a quick look before but couldnt find a decent screenshot to compare with.

they were tagged for some other reason other that migration and scientific study...HMMMMM!!!!!:eek2::eek2::eek2::eek2::eek2:



A.C.P.


Avion Clone Project

A.C.P.





or , A Circle Perfect!are they pulling our leg??:biggrin:


and as you guys ve pointed out really eloquently,i dont knowwhay weve assumed thatthese birds areactually heading northbound and migrating..we already know that are numerous zoological experiments take place on the island....hence the tag on gulls legs!!!im pretty sure we will be seeing again of our seagulls and soon...the note is going straight to ''other'' hands...

Late but here. Someone brought up that Claire's mom was a librarian, so I had to read the transcript again, I totally don't remember the part about the birds being tagged.

Claire: They just flew over and they're only gonna be here today, so if we're gonna catch one we're gonna need to do it now.
Sawyer: Oh this sounds like fun.
Claire: [To Jin] Can you get some nets?
Sawyer: Nets for what, Barb...
[Sun gives Sawyer a dirty like as he is about to give Claire a new nickname]
Sawyer: Nets for what, Claire?
Claire: Ok. 5 minutes ago a flock of seabirds flew over my head. Seabirds are migratory which means they're gonna keep heading south.
Sun: I'm sorry. I don't understand why we need to...
Claire: They're tagged.
Jin: Tagged?


Up until now we have never seen any flying birds on the Island. There were chickens, not great flyers but no sea birds.

Tagged birds mean tracked birds. IMO, there is no reason for the Others to tag these birds.

Claire's idea was rather brilliant.

I havent read all the thread (yet), but I found it bizarre the lack of birds around the Island. Of course, they wont fly through that EM storm surrounding the Island because it would screw their internal compasses, but why no birds?
Usually means trouble is near...

The strangest bird me...;)

Eric

If anything, I would think they were tagged by DI? I don't see why the Others would tag birds.

If anything, I would think they were tagged by DI? I don't see why the Others would tag birds.
I agree. I think the DI tagged the birds to see if they could find their way in and out of the Island.
I personally think some get lucky (or unlucky depending on your take of what the Island is!) and enter the Island's vicinity...As for their returning, I have my doubts about that.

Eric