Patchy says:

"The John Locke I knew was pa-"

-ralyzed.


???

Yeah.

Hence the reason Locke pushed him into the fence.
Probably.
Now i'm starting to think that Locke's wheelchair confinement is a little more shady than we think

Do you think that Danielle deliberately interrupted Mikhail just as he was saying that word? And if so, why?

Parapalegic

I'm pretty sure it was that Locke was paralyzed. Anyone else got anything?

I'm pretty sure it was that Locke was paralyzed. Anyone else got anything?

That was my thought also.. I haven't rewatched it, but at the time that's what I thought he was going to say.. and Danielle has such poor timing..

I think he definitely meant to say "Paralyzed", which is very fitting considering next week's show is centered around Locke.

Parachuting.

Locke! Good Grief! What's your agenda?

Let's recount the obvious:

Locke insisted on not pushing the button which, in turn, caused the electromagnetic pulse.
Locke blew the building that Patchy was in knowing that the place was rigged with C4.
Locke deliberately killed Patchy, their guide and only bargaining chip.I believe John has a hidden agenda. Maybe he's been working with the Others from the beginning. From the preview, we know that Locke has been in contact with Ben in the past (but then again, who hasn't). I'm just speculating (ranting). Great episode.

According to captioning, it was para-

parapsychological?
paramilitary?
parallel?

I'd guess paralyzed...but with this show, who knows?

I agree; paralyzed.

I think Locke's mind is like a hard drive that somebody tried to wipe clean, but not quite. He knows he's got a little bit of truth about the island and their predicament somewhere deep down and has been just trying to bring it up. I'm sure he's on our side.

Paralyzed? and went to dharma for help somehow? and got rejected like everywhere else? maybes got it out for them now?

i know nothing.

i just wanted to type

"Para Para Paradise champion at our local arcade! Everyone from town came to see that man dance to 'Oops, I Did It Again!'"

He was going to say "paraplegic". It means that you're paralyzed from the waist down. If you listen carefully you can hear Mikhail make the 'p' sound before being interrupted.

And, no, I don't think Danielle interrupted on purpose, since she was a distance away and had to shout so Sayid and Co. could hear her.

It might be why Locke was more than willing to push Mikhail between the security pylons though.

my closed captioning said "para" before he was cut off. Of course cc isn't always correct. I'm thinking paralyzed as well. What is Locke up to? I think he is seeking redemption by seeking answers. Also I think he is pissed that Ben messed with his mind.

Okay. Wait, wait, wait.

Here's the real clincher: Mikhail said, "The John Locke I knew..."

KNEW? KNEW?

KNEW??!

When did Mikhail and Locke know each other? Is this something John doesn't remember? Is it slowly coming back to him?

Okay. Wait, wait, wait.

Here's the real clincher: Mikhail said, "The John Locke I knew..."

KNEW? KNEW?

KNEW??!

When did Mikhail and Locke know each other? Is this something John doesn't remember? Is it slowly coming back to him?
That was my reaction also......knew being the wording. If Patchy was on the island as long as he stated just "when" did he know John Locke?

Okay. Wait, wait, wait.

Here's the real clincher: Mikhail said, "The John Locke I knew..."

KNEW? KNEW?

KNEW??!

When did Mikhail and Locke know each other? Is this something John doesn't remember? Is it slowly coming back to him?

Keep in miind Mikhel was being sarcastic when he said, "And how could I know you Sayid Jarell, or you Kate Austen." He knows about them the same way Juliet had that file on Jack. Their information about the Losties ends with the crash. They know them like the CIA might know someone, but that's all before the crash. And that's going to be pivotal, because people change on the Island.

Okay. Wait, wait, wait.

Here's the real clincher: Mikhail said, "The John Locke I knew..."

KNEW? KNEW?

KNEW??!

When did Mikhail and Locke know each other? Is this something John doesn't remember? Is it slowly coming back to him?

Parapatetic.

Yes, this is the central point of that conversation. It was a nice bit of writing/directing to have Danielle interrupt, taking viewers' attention away from the monologue and forcing them to focus on a red herring. The meaningful part of the conversation isn't what was obvious but what was buried under the obvious. That Mikhail knew John Locke in some way. And I'm guessing not Biblically.

So. Knew about? Knew of? Knew personally? No way to know right now.

IMHO this may well be why Locke threw Mikhail into the fence. On the other hand, the fact that Mikhail said "Thank you" as he was being sonically washed might suggest that Locke did that on purpose to complete the murder-suicide that began at the farm with Aunt Bea. Which would imply that Locke has some deeper connection with Dharma than previously suggested.

If that is the case I'll be sorely disappointed with the show. After 80 days on the island, and so many insights into Locke, there should have been some previoius indication that Locke had some tie to the others. But everything that's happened indicates otherwise. Heck, Ben played John like a royal flush when he was a prisoner last season. You'd think something would have come out in their encounters in the hatch that suggested--even subtly--that they knew of each other, at least, before the plane crash.

I don't think Patchy ever knew Locke. I know the way he said it obviously sounds that way. However, I doubt it. He absolutely knows that locke was paraplegic though, that I don't doubt. I know that the others know everything about our survivors.

"The John Locke I knew was pa-"

-rt of Dharma or the Dharma restistance?

Oooh, this is getting even better...Season three is turning into my favoritest yet! The one human antagonist of season one was Ethan, an Other, so it leads me to believe that they have been setting up these ruffians as the focus of LOST from the beginning.

Wow, I think you all are reading way too much into that statement. In context, I think it just means that Patchy had studied Locke's dossier, along with those of Kate, Sayid and probably many of the other people on the Island.

As to why Locke pushed Patchy into the fence - we know that he and Danielle wanted to kill him anyway. I think Locke just figured that he was expendable and pushing him in would be a good way to confirm whether he was lying when he said that the fence no longer worked.

I highly doubt that Locke is working for the Others or has any direct connection (at least one that he knows about as of today) with them. I do think he has some ulterior motives, however. He clearly does NOT want to leave the island.

I thought he was going to say "Pathetic" Because John Locke was a pathetic man for most of his life (so far as we have seen...)

I think when Patchy made his statement, he was letting Locke know that he knew who he was. I think Locke has some connection to Dharma and he well and truly is the enemy of the Others, cause all he cares about is staying on the island, and will do anything to make that happen.

It's "para-" you can hear the "rolled" r that sounds like a "d"
He said he might have a fleeting memory of Locke, but that the Locke he knew was paralyzed. Not the Locke he knew of, or read about. But the Locke he knew. Maybe this will be cleared up next week somehow.

Oh man, this is reminding of when Jack said "The last time I saw the computer that saved the world, it didn't look like that," back in 'Man of Science, Man of Faith' and some people took it to literally mean he'd seen a computer that saved the world before.

Mikhail was demonstrating to all of them by saying their full names that he knew about them. What he said to Locke was a demonstration that he even knew the secrets of their pre-crash lives. He didn't mean he literally knew Locke!

Don't forget that there is a smoke monster on the island that can apparently read minds.

And that The Others have been able to get on and off the island (before the EMP that is).

It's interesting to me that the close-captioning said "para..." That's significant. Thanks to those who shared that. My guess was that he was going to say "part of..." then explain what that was.

There has been multiple threads on this subject that I've posted to already, but here's a question. A lot of us believe that the Other's know us by files that have been given or obtained after they crashed. Any possibility that they got off the island and followed them pre-crash? This is an answer that won't be given probably til the last season but any theories.

John's a killer!! :eek2:

Oh, and John definitely has a hidden agenda as well. He knew about the C4 yet he told Sayid that he didn't. And he entered 77 knowing that the house was full of C4. Also, he totally killed mikhail. maybe because he was afraid mikhail would bring up his paralysis? Somehow, I doubt that; he's told that to other people already, he wouldn't kill to hide it. Either he really didn't think that the fence would kill or he had another reason to kill mikhail. I'm very intrigued!

I think he knew that the fence would kill, after his previous track record of blowing up the swan. blowing up the flame, don't you think he'd be nervous of an independant decision/action like that incase it would screw him over again?

He did it because he knew it was still working. Plus the writers wouldn't just make a character really stupid in about 3 episodes, there's obviously some reasoning behind his choices.

I personally think this zany Locke is really interesting.

There is a theory somewhere on the board that the Others (or someone else) are viewing the Losties' memories through the flashbacks. Whispering has been heard in them, discussing the flashbacks themselves, if I remember correctly. I wonder if, when Patchy said he had a memory of him, that he had seen some of John's actual memories.

Not paralyzed Paraplegic.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paraplegia

As in paralyzed from the waist down, as in confined to a wheelchair,

So he knew John before all of this, that is very interesting, and im guessing next Locke centric episode will give us some more answers here, at the least it should show us how he got into the wheelchair.

-Exodus

I thought he was going to say "a parrot." because of the Hurley bird.

Patchy says:

"The John Locke I knew was pa-"

-ralyzed.


???
Yeah, that's what I think. That's the only thing that really makes sense. And I was so mad at Danielle for interrupting when the whole thing was going to come out! Although, I suppose if he DID finish what he was going to say, Kate and Sayid would probably just have assumed that it was a different "John Locke".



Okay. Wait, wait, wait.

Here's the real clincher: Mikhail said, "The John Locke I knew..."

KNEW? KNEW?

KNEW??!

When did Mikhail and Locke know each other? Is this something John doesn't remember? Is it slowly coming back to him?
Hmmm... Possible, but I doubt it. I think Mikhail just knew a lot about Locke. Just like Ben knew about Jack. Which brings me back to the question, "WHERE are they getting this information?!" It seems like they've got every one of the survivors on record. :undecide:

Parachuting.

:lol2: That made me laugh. I can just imagine...

Discussion over, he said The John Locke I knew was a para_____...

What is paraplegic.

Also, maybe Patchy knows (or has a fleeting memory of) John Locke via the Smokey monster that downloaded Lockes memories...

Let's recount the obvious:
Locke insisted on not pushing the button which, in turn, caused the electromagnetic pulse.
Locke blew the building that Patchy was in knowing that the place was rigged with C4.
Locke deliberately killed Patchy, their guide and only bargaining chip.I believe John has a hidden agenda.

We know already that Locke's agenda is to stay on the island. He doesn't want to go back to his wheelchair.

He's destroying anything that might help the gang to be rescued. He'll probably destroy the submarine if he gets the opportunity.


Discussion over, he said The John Locke I knew was a para_____...

What is paraplegic.


I just went back & listened again. He did not say "a" before the word "para-".

Wow, I think you all are reading way too much into that statement. In context, I think it just means that Patchy had studied Locke's dossier, along with those of Kate, Sayid and probably many of the other people on the Island.

As to why Locke pushed Patchy into the fence - we know that he and Danielle wanted to kill him anyway. I think Locke just figured that he was expendable and pushing him in would be a good way to confirm whether he was lying when he said that the fence no longer worked.

I highly doubt that Locke is working for the Others or has any direct connection (at least one that he knows about as of today) with them. I do think he has some ulterior motives, however. He clearly does NOT want to leave the island.

In the Canadian preview for next week, Locke points a gun at Ben and says, "I'm not here for Jack, I want that submarine!" I'm not sure why it is his ulterior motive, but that's what it is.

In the Canadian preview for next week, Locke points a gun at Ben and says, "I'm not here for Jack, I want that submarine!" I'm not sure why it is his ulterior motive, but that's what it is.


I think it's obvious. He wants to destroy the sub so there'd be no chance of a rescue with it. The Island healed him and he's not gonna give that up. He told Walt he doesn't want to leave, and he shared with Rose the notion of its healing powers.

I just went back & listened again. He did not say "a" before the word "para-".
I stand corrected. May I change my vote to paralyzed?

If Locke is willing to go through all this to blow up the submarine in case it means rescue, then he's going to be one ticked puppy when he gets back to the island and finds out about Claire's bird note.

If Locke is willing to go through all this to blow up the submarine in case it means rescue, then he's going to be one ticked puppy when he gets back to the island and finds out about Claire's bird note.

That's a good thought. We'll know his agenda for sure when he learns about the carrier seagull.

and in the preview, there's a glimpse of an explosion behind Locke as he stands with his arms out(?). Anything there to associate that explosion with a sub?

Any discussion of the preview MUST be spoiler fonted...please remember to do that.

The bottomline is Mikhail knew Locke was paralyzed from the waist down at some point. The how is important, but could be related (like others have said) to the dossiers that the Others appear to have on all of the Losties. It should be noted that:


In the Canadian preview, Ben knows that Locke has been in a wheelchair for four years, so that's a fairly recent development


I think a key figure could be:


Richard Alpert, the Mittelos Biosciences rep who returns in MFT. Given the scope of his work, history with figures like Juliet, fronting for (IMO) Thomas Mittelwork(a rival to Hanso), and generally greasy demeanor, I would think Alpert had some contact with Locke in the outside world and could be responsible for Locke's disability.


Locke clearly relishes the fact that he can now walk, and as a matter of pride isn't really interested in revealing a handicap. That could help explain his pushing of Patchy into the fence, although something tells me Locke knows more about the events at hand then he let's on. He clearly has an agenda, and no one is going to get in his way.

The bottomline is Mikhail knew Locke was paralyzed from the waist down at some point. The how is important, but could be related (like others have said) to the dossiers that the Others appear to have on all of the Losties.


Klugh seemed to have spent a lot of time with Walt.
Walt probably knew Locke was paralyzed. He & Locke hung out together and Locke told him a "secret".
Walt's a savvy, observant kid with a good memory. If you've forgotten how much he knew about what was going on at the beach, rewatch Outlaws. He didn't miss a thing.

The only dossier we've seen was a stack of paper in Juliet's hand. Jack should have called that hand. I think she had one ace. Her vague comment about Sarah doesn't mean that she really knows anything about her.
Ben knew - from Ethan and the manifest - that Jack's a doctor. Ben could easily have latched on to that and used his then-existing comm system to get basic background info about Jack - an internationally renowned spinal surgeon whose prominent father died suddenly in Oz. It was probably even on the news or in the newspapers.

Other than easily obtained public info about Jack (the autopsy would have been only slightly harder), have Ben, Juliet, or Patchy said anything yet that they couldn't have picked up from Walt and the manifest and Ethan?

I'm with Sayid - I think the Others are more bluffers than omniscient.

If that was Patchy's best stuff, though, he wasn't as good a bluffer as Tom, Ben, Alex, or Juliet.

edited to add: Just thought of this - the manifest would have identied Locke as disabled.

How about--

"The John Locke I knew was pathetic."

"The John Locke I knew was palling around with Dharma."

"The John Locke I knew was a pain in the ___."

"The John Locke I knew was part robot."

"The John Locke I knew was a paramedic."

This could be fun . . . .

I agree about "paraplegic" and I also think that Danielle interrupted on purpose. I don't think that Mikhail knew John other than what he read or otherwise ascertained through The Others. And I think John pushed Mikhail into the fence because a) he needed to make sure that Mikhail was indeed lying about the fence and b) he was the most expendable. Would you rather he tested it with Kate? or Sayid?

I thought he was going to say "a parrot." because of the Hurley bird.

I thought he was going to say "a Pirate"
Tieing into the Black Rock. I guess paraplegic works too :grin:

"...partial to phone sex operators."

That's it! Mikhail was the tele-pimp of Locke's replacement "Helen."

I just don't see it being remotely possible that Mikhail actually knew John in the past. It's one thing to say that Locke's memory has been erased, but what about Mikhail's? If he remembered who Locke was, don't you think he would've said something like "holy crapski! You can walk!" upon seeing him?

I guess we'll see how it plays out this week.

I don't understand why everyone thinks that Locke is sabotaging things so he can stay on the island. If the Losties found a way off, why would Locke have to go with them? Why couldn't he just stay there? It seems pretty cruel to deny everyone else a chance to leave.

Just posted a question to Gregg asking for clarification of exactly what Mikey said to Locke ...

"The John Locke I knew was par..."

- or -

"The John Locke I knew was para..."

I just hope he has time to answer :undecide:


http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=72596

But you, John Locke – you, I might have a fleeting memory of, but I must be confused, because the John Locke I know was para--

I find the wording to be very interesting, and peculiar. English is not my first language, but I suppose that "having a fleeting memory of someone" implies either remembering someone from a distant past, or having a superficial knowledge of somebody, i.e. after a brief encounter and nothing more.

If Bakunin did mean "paralysed" or "paraplegic", it can't be a memory from such a remote past, since we know (from "Walkabout") that Locke has been in a wheelchair for the past 4 years (2000 to 2004, when Flight 815 crashed). So perhaps it's a memory from a quick encounter, an encounter that must have happened quite recently, though, in the last four years. Or, that Bakunin was checking on Locke on behalf of someone else at some pre-crash time. That would explain the fact that Bakunin recognised him and not the other way around. (Unless, of course, Locke did remember him and pretended not to, which seems possible but a little unlikely to me).

Eh, this is another reason why I love Lost. You never know for sure.

Cheers
Rick

There was a made for TV Movie called Goliath Awaits about a Sunken Ocean liner that has numerous survivors living in air pockets and when they are found decades later there are those that try to sabotage the rescue because they enjoy ther new found life more then awaits them back on the surface. maybe Locke is having the same feelings.

Or maybe Locke knows that to be recued is not what everyone thinks it is?

or the answer is in the title " The John Locke i knew was Par Avion?

Paranoid?

Do you think that Danielle deliberately interrupted Mikhail just as he was saying that word? And if so, why?

No.
I do not think so.
We already know Rousseu!
She doesn't have any background of Kate, Locke, or any other survivor.
It must've been just a coincidence.

it can be safely assumed that PARA was paralyzed. though it is funny to watch people try to turn it into parrot or paratrooper or paramedic.

the john locke i knew was a parapsychologist!!! yes!! confirmation on my old john-locke-is-a-ghostbuster theory!!!

i dont think mikhail literally meant he "knew" locke. mikhail has been on the island since he was 24 and locke got paralyzed quite late in his life. i know what you're going to say, mikhail is a liar.... but i believe him about some things. the others mix truth with their lies to make them more dangerous.

i think mikhail meant that john was once on the list. he was one of the "good people" but he blew it with his anger and loss of faith.

i'z got a theory for you... locke was supposed to go to the island with dharma people years ago but he didn't know it and because he got paralyzed he wasn't able to go with them

I do think that Bakunin and Locke go way back: pre-island. He said the John Locke I "knew" was para-.. I don't believe you would know someone by reading their dossier... Locke also seemed to exchange some glances with him, before pushing him to his death to shut him up.

It would make more sense to me that Bakunin was going to say "paralyzed". People don't tend to throw around the word "paraplegic".

I don't understand why everyone thinks that Locke is sabotaging things so he can stay on the island. If the Losties found a way off, why would Locke have to go with them? Why couldn't he just stay there? It seems pretty cruel to deny everyone else a chance to leave.

BINGO!!! He's a grown man. All he has to do is run into the jungle when (if) the rescuers arrive.

Then again, he did bop Sayid on the head in Season 1. If he is trying to sabatoge rescue for everyone, thats reprehensible. However, maybe he has convinced himself that, because the island cured he and Rose's physical ailments, it can be beneficial for everyone in the long run. But I still don't think that is for him to decide.

Ugh i hate previews, they give away so much, it's just no longer a suprise when a certain event happens in an episode. I've avoided previews ever since coming back from the hiatus and it's the viewing experience has been so much better. Starting out an episode having no idea what it's going to be about, i suggest to you all that you should avoid spoilers and previews in future.

And with us getting new episodes week in, week out now, they're filming ahead of schedule more than usual, so it's more likely stuff is going to get leaked, if you keep reading spoilers you're going to have the season's biggest reveals ruined in future IMO.

or the answer is in the title " The John Locke i knew was Par Avion?Damn! Nice catch.
"par avion" is french for "by air". Doesn't seem to have much relevance other than as a tie in to Mickael's interupted statement. (And birds flying by air I guess)
I think it is put in there on purpose, but it was definatly "paraplegic" that he was going to say.

What about the Locke I knew was paranoid schitzophrenic? Wasn't his mom mentally ill?

Damn! Nice catch.
"par avion" is french for "by air". Doesn't seem to have much relevance other than as a tie in to Mickael's interupted statement. (And birds flying by air I guess)
I think it is put in there on purpose, but it was definatly "paraplegic" that he was going to say.

Don't you ever get/send letters from/to Europe ?

"Par Avion" (by plane, and not by air) is a mail service, paying an extra-fee, you can send your mail by plane so it suposedly gets to it's destination faster even though it's actually pretty lousy and not fast at all...

It has no more relevance, I agree: you wanna use UPS or fed ex instead of that now ;) that's why you didn't catch it i think ;)

The link with this episode i can see here should be more like the bird-SOS message ;)

And i'm definitely voting for Paraplegic/Paralyzed ... And I definitely think Locke is willingly sabotaging everythign now, like he did in the past in season 1 !! (remember when Sayid was trying to build that radio antena to send a SOS ?)

Back to the very first episodes of the show, i always felt something suspicious about John Locke !

Cheers.

"...partial to phone sex operators."

That's it! Mikhail was the tele-pimp of Locke's replacement "Helen."




"The John Locke I knew was part robot."


:lol2: Oh my goodness, some of these are really good. You guys have me cracking up.

For the sake of discussion, let's assume Patchy was going to say "paralyzed." Okay, Patchy lies more than a little bit. According to Patchy, he was on the island before Locke was paralyzed. Was Patchy just using information from Locke's file (assuming the Others have a file on him like they do Jack) to goad Locke, or is Patchy lying about how long he has been on the island? Or is something else going on? Ideas?

"The John Locke I knew was pa-thologically insane."

Yeah, that's it! :biggrin:

OMG! How did you guys hear that??? I thought he was going to say:

"The John Locke I knew was pa-ssed away a long time ago.."

Referring to the philosopher John Locke...

Mikhail was demonstrating to all of them by saying their full names that he knew about them. What he said to Locke was a demonstration that he even knew the secrets of their pre-crash lives. He didn't mean he literally knew Locke!


Exactly!

Heh, I'm going to sit the fence on this one. :biggrin:

I agree, he was saying "the John Locke I knew was paralyzed. Still, I think there may be some mythology tied to the way he said it. If you compare it to what Desmond told Claire about Charlie, Desmond used the past tense, also. That's where Charlie died. He slipped over there on that rock. He died. (Yes, I'm paraphrasing, but Desmond actually emphasized the past tense as he told it to Claire.) :undecide:

Oh, Daniel TEEEE-TOALLY knew what she was doing.....my guess is that SHE is the HE they are all refering too.

You know what's driving me MAD is this re-occuring theme:

"Oh hey, yeah, how's it goin there parnellie...eeeeyeup, I'm an "other" and we've been on this/these islands for centuries and in fact our leader, this dude named Ben actually PRESSED THE BUTTON HIMSELF, but yeah, there was this really weird noise one day and get this, THE SKY TURNED PURPLE!!!! yeah, but now a bunch of stuff doesn't work and we don't know why"

I'm sure he was going to say Locke was paraplegic and that Locke killed Patchy on purpose to keep others in the dark, except who he chooses to tell. He;s trying to prevent rescue/leaving the island. I don't think he knew anything about the island before he got there. Locke was on the plane to return to America after a humiliating experience due to his physical condition.

OT - Isn't it odd that there are so many connections to France? Shannon could speak French because she lived in France, Rousseau used the French language for the iterations, Sayid lived in France. Any others?

It would make more sense to me that Bakunin was going to say "paralyzed". People don't tend to throw around the word "paraplegic".

Er, yes they do. Do you know anyone who can't use their legs?

I'm going to go against the grain here but, did Locke really know what would happen to Patches when he crossed the line? I'm honestly for the first time lost for words in this situation. We know that Locke is witholding information from evereyone, but is it truly relevant?

From the looks of the past and the looks of forshadowing, we are supposed to expect the worst from our "rescue party". I'm just glad that the line between good and bad has been blurred permanently in this season. Even though we don't really know where that line even stands lol.

Er, yes they do. Do you know anyone who can't use their legs?My twin sister. In the past 25 years, I'd say the breakdown of terminology we've heard is roughly "can't move her legs/can't walk" 50% / "paralyzed" 40% / "crippled" or some other outdated label like that - 10%. I don't really remember any laymen/women (not medical staff) using the word paraplegic.

What if when Locke entered 77 he got to communicate with say Dr. Candle or even Ben. What if a deal was struck? What if the Flame was blown by those on the other end of the communications...we only have Mikail's word for it that no communications had ben restored.

My twin sister. In the past 25 years, I'd say the breakdown of terminology we've heard is roughly "can't move her legs/can't walk" 50% / "paralyzed" 40% / "crippled" or some other outdated label like that - 10%. I don't really remember any laymen/women (not medical staff) using the word paraplegic.

Hmm. Well then I'm sorry for assuming you didn't know what you're talking about. My experience is different, so maybe it's a regional thing. Pretty much everyone I know uses the word paraplegic because it's accurate and not offensive/derogatory. Paralyzed can mean a number of different conditions, you know?

Hmm. Well then I'm sorry for assuming you didn't know what you're talking about. My experience is different, so maybe it's a regional thing. Pretty much everyone I know uses the word paraplegic because it's accurate and not offensive/derogatory. Paralyzed can mean a number of different conditions, you know?No need to apologize whatsoever... I agree, it could be a regional thing.. Believe me, I know the catch-basin that the term paralyzed is.. But we're also really understanding when people don't use the term paraplegic. I think it would be presumptuous to think that people should know that term.. I do however, have a problem with crippled and gimp - yes, people use those terms to this day. Rarer now, but it's still out there..

I wonder if he was going to say para-military. That would explain Locke's abilities with guns, knives, explosives and tracking. Perhaps a stint in Afganistan in lieu of jail time for mary jane growing?

I think it's pretty clear that he was going to say paraplegic .. he wouldn't say "paralysed" because, to make sense, he'd have to say "paralysed from the waist down", which just doesn't sound right from his tone of voice...

But anyway... I reckon you're reading too much into this... it was a throw-away comment intended just to scare them about how much the Others know.

I finally figured it out! Here's what I think Mikhail was going to say:

"The John Locke I knew was par-tners with Alvar Hanso." ;)

Unless Patchy saw Locke when he was temporarily paralyzed "by the island" when Boone died.

"The John Locke I knew was parachutist".
"The John Locke I knew was paradoxical"
"The John Locke I knew was Paraguayan"
"The John Locke I knew was paralegal"
"The John Locke I knew was paramagnetic"
"The John Locke I knew was parasiticidal"
"The John Locke I knew was par avion"

Now if only we got Bart Simpson to write those in the chalkboard.

By saying "The John Locke I knew was pa-", it implies that just by seeing Locke now he can tell Locke is no longer "pa-", so it is most likely a physical change he noticed, the obvious thing would be paralyzed/paraplegic.

I thought he was going to say....

The John Locke I knew was a parallelogram.

what's more, if you attentively listen to him, he says para-, not only pa- !

Well, I think it just adds fuel to Locke's fire that he is "special" to the Others, and I think in a heartbeat, he'd sell out the Losties to get to the Others and find out how and why they think he's "special." I think he's pretty selfish in that way.

I thought he was going to say....

The John Locke I knew was a parallelogram.

I vote this one as the best possible answer.. and it caused me to crack up so badly that my eyes are tearing from laughing.. :biggrin:

Not posted for a looong time so it`s good to be prompted into posting again, long nights reading threads are starting to catch up already !

Can I just point out, that on re-watching... It is quite obvious that Patchy does not say "The John Locke I knew was para..." He says "The John Locke I KNOW was para..."

Doesn`t seem to be important at first, but after he recites information from "the list" it gives itself more to the plot.

Saying "KNOW" still could just refer to whatever dossier the Others have on the current Losties. At the time of the crash, its implied he was after all.

But it is an interesting word choice to bring his paraylsis into a sentence written in the present tense. As if to say, "why aren't you paralyzed dude? You should be according to my notes." :biggrin:

ETA: it also may have been a reminder to Locke of something he has already figured out: You leave this island, you are wheelchair bound again. That fear is why I think Locke is trying, whether subconsciously or consciously, to prevent any rescue from the island.

I totally agree that he is referring to the list.

But could John`s paralysis be related somehow to his faith in the island ? Right up until Boone dies which was basically his fault, he walks. After a little time to live with that he gets back up...

Locke however IMO, does want off the island. This would explain the curiosity that hit across his face when mikhail mentioned the submarine Dharma used to bring him to the island.

But the question then arises, will he revert to his paralysis if/when he does leave the island, or will the island let him take it`s gift to him home ?

How about "The John Locke I knew was parapatetic?"

Parapatetic is strictly defined as "walking or travelling about." Curious, since we first learned of Locke's condition in "Walkabout."

The more implied definition refers to Aristotlean Logic, as Aristotle often walk about the Lyceum as he taught his students. Aristotlean Logic is dependent upon extremes -- a thing is wrong or right, on or off, good or bad, BLACK or WHITE.

Perhaps, since the implosion of the Swan, Locke has stopped seeing the world in black and white terms and begun to see shades of grey. And maybe he sees that grey in himself. He has now proven himself to be capable of misleading his friends to his own ends and clearly aims to do some mischief upon reaching Otherton.

I stil think it's paralyzed, but I wanted to throw another option out there.

Can I just point out, that on re-watching... It is quite obvious that Patchy does not say "The John Locke I knew was para..." He says "The John Locke I KNOW was para..."

Doesn`t seem to be important at first, but after he recites information from "the list" it gives itself more to the plot.Good catch. You're right, and it is most definitely Others speak.

Colleen: I know you, Sun Hwa Kwon. And I know you're not a killer.

Please, no hypothesizing that Colleen and Sun also must've known each other pre-island!

Perhaps Mikail new locke was paralized because Walt told Ms Klugh when she was interrogating him, so ms klugh tells everybody else, including Mikail. How did walt know he was paralized you ask? Maybe thats the secret Locke told Walt when they started their game of backgammon. - not sure if i spelled that right.

Whew! I agree with everyone who thinks Mikhail was about to say 'paralyzed'. Also, there were ways for him to get that info, as others have pointed out: via Walt, or one of those dossiers.

I do feel Locke won't want to leave, and also that he doesn't want to stick around on his own; he wants the whole community thing happening, and he needs the Losties for that. Although, perhaps if Ben were to welcome him with open arms, he might just forget about sabotaging escape for everyone, and become one of the Others instead! :biggrin:

Yes, "paraplegic" makes perfect sense too.

So, how do the Others get their in depth knowledge of the Losties? We saw a binder on Jack. But where does this information come from? Off the island? Or do they collect and document it themselves?

Also, how does this tie into names being important? The Others don't seem to like giving their real names... almost like by having their name you can gain some power over them (I wish people would stop calling her Klugh, we know she's Bea now!) And how does this relate to the collection of lists by Ethan and Goodwin? Maybe they just needed lists of NAMES of the survivors, and from those lists they could match it up against the official cosmic list of who's naughty or nice? i.e Jacob's list????

There's more stuff... why can the Others read Chinese when they're not Chinese or speak Russian when they're not Russian? Maybe Sayid is wrong, maybe they ARE omniscient. Maybe this is the secret of the island... that good people... people on the list... are capable of superhuman stuff... ???

Pa...ulo's lost brother!

Pa...cifist!

Pa...st playing games!

nah, paralyzed it is. Others received information about losties after the plane had crashed. They saw the plane crashing and sent out a request about what flight it is, and who had been aboard. Among losties, perhaps there is only one good enough to be on "the list". Universe has a way of course-correcting and it brought the plane to the island to get the selected person to work with dharma. Just like it has brought so many other people to the island before.

BINGO!!! He's a grown man. All he has to do is run into the jungle when (if) the rescuers arrive.

Then again, he did bop Sayid on the head in Season 1. If he is trying to sabatoge rescue for everyone, thats reprehensible. However, maybe he has convinced himself that, because the island cured he and Rose's physical ailments, it can be beneficial for everyone in the long run. But I still don't think that is for him to decide.

I also wondered why he doesn't realize he can just stay on the island if they're rescued. Then 2 things occured to me:
1. He regards the Losties as the family he never had.
2. You can't be a leader if there's no one to be led.

So I am going on the assumption it was paralyzed or parapalegic, either way I find it interesting he chose to call out Locke. He could have mentioned Sayid was a torturer or Kate was a convict but that is all known to the group. Locke has only shared his paralysis with a select few, and Sayid and Kate don't seem to be in that bunch.

Maybe it was to anger Locke and get him to kill him? If so that might be why he says thank you before he dies. Also the others have a habit of letting Locke know they used him just to piss him off. Isn't that what Ben did?

If Mikhael is going from written reports they would probably be based on investigations of the Lostees off island & precrash lives. The Locke he knows from reports would indeed be paralyzed/paraplegic. A hale and healthy Locke walking around would call for a note of surprise because of the difference from the report. There was no such outward change for Kate or Sayid and he apparently had not been looking at reports on Danielle so his reaction specifically to Locke does make sense if it is based on off island reports.

Yes, yes. Mikhail could have been referring to previously "knowing" John from a dossier. It's just fun -- FUN -- to overreact, the way the writers want us to.
Or IS it overreaction??

its paralyzed its extremely clear

"But you John Locke...you I might have a fleeting memory of, but I must be confused because the John Locke I know was para... "

....doxical. Mikahail is confused because John Locke is paradoxical.


Now, where do I claim my prize? :)

Boy does this thread need a poll :D I liked Maggie's 'pathetic' suggestion and any that involve paragliding or chutes have to raise a smile.

But I'm offering parapluie - French; for umbrella.

Boy does this thread need a poll :D I liked Maggie's 'pathetic' suggestion and any that involve paragliding or chutes have to raise a smile.

But I'm offering parapluie - French; for umbrella.

"...the John Locke I know was paradoxical. He is the paragon of intelligence, but got himself paralyzed because he stupidly parachuted using only a parapluie while in Para.

(Para, as we all know, is a provincial state in Brazil.)

Klugh seemed to have spent a lot of time with Walt.
Walt probably knew Locke was paralyzed. He & Locke hung out together and Locke told him a "secret".
Walt's a savvy, observant kid with a good memory. If you've forgotten how much he knew about what was going on at the beach, rewatch Outlaws. He didn't miss a thing.

The only dossier we've seen was a stack of paper in Juliet's hand. Jack should have called that hand. I think she had one ace. Her vague comment about Sarah doesn't mean that she really knows anything about her.
Ben knew - from Ethan and the manifest - that Jack's a doctor. Ben could easily have latched on to that and used his then-existing comm system to get basic background info about Jack - an internationally renowned spinal surgeon whose prominent father died suddenly in Oz. It was probably even on the news or in the newspapers.

Other than easily obtained public info about Jack (the autopsy would have been only slightly harder), have Ben, Juliet, or Patchy said anything yet that they couldn't have picked up from Walt and the manifest and Ethan?

I'm with Sayid - I think the Others are more bluffers than omniscient.

If that was Patchy's best stuff, though, he wasn't as good a bluffer as Tom, Ben, Alex, or Juliet.

edited to add: Just thought of this - the manifest would have identied Locke as disabled.

I completely agree with your assessment of the Other's knowledge of the Losties. I think they know very little about the Losties. Juliet pulled one the oldest magic tricks on Jack. She used a little distraction with a big file, which I wouldn't be surprised was full of blank paper, and teased him with some general information that anyone could have gotten from a google search--and Jack's mind (and the viewer's mind) filled in the rest and made the conclusion that the Others know everything about the Losties. It's like the famous magic trick of sawing someone in half. The magician shows you a box with a person in it and puts blades through the box. Our minds fill in the details that the blades go all the way through.

When Mikhail was in the jungle with Sayid, Locke, Kate, and Danielle, all he really told them was their names and a vague character trait about them that could apply to anyone in certain parts of their lives. I think it was clear that Mikhail was about to say that Locke was paralyzed and it wouldn't suprise me if the Others knew about this from pre-crash. There are several Lostie-Island connections and I've been waiting since Ben's arrival at the Swan for there to be a Lostie-Other connection. I think that will be Locke. We know that the Others are somehow affiliated with Mitteloes and it's possible that Locke went for medical care in one of their facilities.

Another thing we have to remember is that the Others have had contact with the outside world. Clearly there would've been tons of news reports and media converage of Flight 815. The Others could have just gotten their information from following the media reports. Surely the news coverage included information about the passengers. Maybe even some news programs interviewed family members of the crash victims. Some of the reports probably went like this, "And on the flight was Jack Shepherd, a renowned spinal surgeon who was in Australia to collect the remains of his father Christian Shepherd who was also a renowned surgeon. Here is Jack's ex-wife Sarah to tell us more about what kind of person he was..." "John Locke was also on the flight. John was tragically paralyzed 4 years ago when _____." "Sun (whatever her last name is) was on the flight. She was known by her friends and family to be a quiet, peaceful woman who dutifully served her husband."