Ok, so in Maternity Leave, Claire hears that lullaby, "Catch a Falling Star" and says that her dad used to sing it to her... Then Christian in this ep says he used to sing to Claire when she was young. This now proves to me for sure that he is involved on the island, and it suddenly occurs to me that Christian was the one behind all that Others trying to capture Aaron business in season 2?

Forgive me if this has been noted already--West Coast, epi ended 6 minutes ago!

Good "catch." ;) Hmmm . . . so is Shepherd "him"?

i don't get it. why does claire singing the christian sung to her as a little girl mean that christian is involved in the island?

Good "catch." ;) Hmmm . . . so is Shepherd "him"?

No, he is not.

He described himself as a "weak" man, told Saywer he never had what it takes, etc.

Why would a powerful man at the head of a super sekkrit organization allow his life to go downhill like that?

If he could pull all those strings to get people on the island/make planes crash, etc WHY wasn't he able to save his career and had his license stripped and his life in ruins?

The Others know about Catch A Falling Star because Claire mentioned it in a room fulll of lawyers and people who could indeed be involved in Aaron's suspicious adoption. I was surprised to see Christian did sing it to her, because he always seemed so distant to his other child, even when Jack was just a kid.

I have always wondered what happened to Christian's corpse, but I would be very suprised if he was "him"... considering "his" name is Jacob.

I think it's more likely that The Others did a thorough background check on Claire and that's how they got that information. She mentioned it to the couple that was originally going to adopt her baby, so it wasn't like she was shy about mentioning it.

YESYESYES! I always had a feeling that he was, but now I am more convinced. He certainly had a strong incentive to get Jack and Claire (and Aaron) to that Island. He had the weaker links with Ana and Sawyer. If he's not Jacob, than he's very influential in Dharma/Whidmore/Hostiles/Mittilos or whatever force brought them there. It is not a coincidence.

YESYESYES! I always had a feeling that he was, but now I am more convinced. He certainly had a strong incentive to get Jack and Claire (and Aaron) to that Island. He had the weaker links with Ana and Sawyer. If he's not Jacob, than he's very influential in Dharma/Whidmore/Hostiles/Mittilos or whatever force brought them there. It is not a coincidence.

If that's the case, can someone please explain to me why he ended up drinking himself to death in Sydney's red light district, his career in ruins? He was stripped of his medical license and probably fired by Saint Sebastian. How hard would have been to prevent that if he was very influential with any of those organizations?

If that's the case, can someone please explain to me why he ended up drinking himself to death in Sydney's red light district, his career in ruins? He was stripped of his medical license and probably fired by Saint Sebastian. How hard would have been to prevent that if he was very influential with any of those organizations?

So that the rest of the world would be convinced he was dead, while he led these Dhostiles maybe?

No, he is not.

He described himself as a "weak" man, told Saywer he never had what it takes, etc.

Why would a powerful man at the head of a super sekkrit organization allow his life to go downhill like that?

If he could pull all those strings to get people on the island/make planes crash, etc WHY wasn't he able to save his career and had his license stripped and his life in ruins?

The Others know about Catch A Falling Star because Claire mentioned it in a room fulll of lawyers and people who could indeed be involved in Aaron's suspicious adoption. I was surprised to see Christian did sing it to her, because he always seemed so distant to his other child, even when Jack was just a kid.

Desmond made the plane crash by not entering the numbers in time.

If the Others had connections to Claire's "suspicious" adoption proceedings it's just as likely that Shephard could be involved.

Of course, I'm just playing devil's advocate and won't lose sleep over any of this. :rolleyes:

The Others know about Catch A Falling Star because Claire mentioned it in a room fulll of lawyers and people who could indeed be involved in Aaron's suspicious adoption. I was surprised to see Christian did sing it to her, because he always seemed so distant to his other child, even when Jack was just a kid.

Yes, and there's smokey too that may or may not "download" memories.

I think the more interesting question here is how Claire knew that Christian sang that particular song to her. She didn't seem to remember her father, and Christian only mentioned that he sang to her, not what song he sings to her.

This makes me really think that this wasn't the only contact Christian had with Claire, which would also lend creedence to the idea that Claire does know his name, and that would make it easier for her and Jack to realize their connection.

Ok, so in Maternity Leave, Claire hears that lullaby, "Catch a Falling Star" and says that her dad used to sing it to her... Then Christian in this ep says he used to sing to Claire when she was young. This now proves to me for sure that he is involved on the island, and it suddenly occurs to me that Christian was the one behind all that Others trying to capture Aaron business in season 2?

Forgive me if this has been noted already--West Coast, epi ended 6 minutes ago!

Isnt Christian dead? Oh....and Claire was on copius amounts of drugs when she heard that lullaby.

No, he is not.

He described himself as a "weak" man, told Saywer he never had what it takes, etc.

Why would a powerful man at the head of a super sekkrit organization allow his life to go downhill like that?

If he could pull all those strings to get people on the island/make planes crash, etc WHY wasn't he able to save his career and had his license stripped and his life in ruins?.


Would you do it if you knew of a way for them to live forever?


I was surprised to see Christian did sing it to her, because he always seemed so distant to his other child, even when Jack was just a kid.

Little girls have this special power against their daddies and will make them do alot of unusual things. Well I know my 4 year old does anyway. :biggrin:

First we really don't know if Christian is even dead. Jack saw him on the island in season one and his corps is missing.

It's not unsual to have only bits and pieces of young childhood memories. Like a song that song to you, but not beable to remember the person singing it.

Not that I am advocating this theory, but why did Christian wait for days before he went to find Claire. Perhaps he was waiting as bait to get Jack to arrive and when he found out Jack was there it was time to set the rest of the plan in motion and he wanted to see Claire one last time before he left possibly for good????

Claire had the manifest for the funeral in season one. So she would/could know Jacks last name

Claire had the manifest for the funeral in season one. So she would/could know Jacks last name

She also doesn't know the name Christian Shephard, which makes that irrelavant.

I was really confused by the whole Claire/Christian interaction, based largely on recalling the lullaby. It seemed so important to her duringthe adoption proceedings; when she finally MET her father and he told her he used to visit her, how could she not have invoken the lullaby--or at least be somewhat "softened" to him? Conversely, if she had this terrible experience meeting Christian, why in the world would she have spoken so fondly about his lullaby, years later, during the adoption planning???

Well she did smile at Christian when he mentioned him singing to her as a little girl, which means that she does remember. And it's very easy to think that she in fact did love Christian, he was her father, so I don't find it unusual that she talked about him so fondly to the Stewarts.

So that the rest of the world would be convinced he was dead, while he led these Dhostiles maybe?

He's not a leader. Leadership requires committement and he SUCKED at it. Ran from it like it was a deadly plague. I do find it interesting that both his children reject his philosophy. Jack tells Sawyer his father blamed everything on fate and practically spits out the word "fate" and we know he doesn't believe in destiny (think of the parallel between Locke dumping a dying patient into his arms and lying about it and Christian lying about the woman he killed on the operating table) and Claire refuses to belive there's no hope left for her mother.

Yes, and there's smokey too that may or may not "download" memories.

The writers have confirmed that the visions the characters have on the island (of which I think Christian was first ) are Smokie.
Would you do it if you knew of a way for them to live forever?

Hehe. That'd be the ultimate compensation method for a bad parent, wouldn't it? (Bill Mulder had to choose between Fox and Samantha, but at least he had better parenting skills. ;) ) But Christian wasn't the one who sent Jack to Australia. That was Margo, his Cruella DeVille mother. Christian hadn't spoken to Jack "in two months" at the time and from his conversation with Sawyer it's obvious where their relationship was at that point.

We do know the mysterious LA couple had a lot to do with Claire boarding flight 815. I haven't seen this mentioned about Catch A Falling Star, but the song and that memory of her father is what triggered Claire to change her mind when she was going to give away her baby. So I think we can speculate either way. Maybe Christian went to Australia to warn Claire NOT to board the plane. :biggrin:

Believe me, when I first saw White Rabbit and Jack identifying his body and the hotel clerk mentioning "the incident in the lobby", my first thought was: dun, dun, dun, dun... that was no heartattack. And I know they played it that way because they figured a lot of XPhiles will be watching this show.

I love Christian. His relationship with Jack is brilliantly written and John Terry is a fantastic actor. If there's any kind of conspiracy to get these particular losties on the island, I want him involved because I want to see more of him. So I'm not saying he couldn't be somewhat involved in a Hanso/whatever plot, IF there is one.

But I want my speculation based not only on random clues, but also on his character and he just doesn't fit the "magnificent man" profile. He knew it. He tells Sawyer his son is "a good man, he does what's in his heart" and you can see it's in direct contrast with himself, who's "weak" and unable to pick up that phone to call Jack and tell him what he's always wanted to hear.

Furthermore, there's a reason why Clark Kent is not a spinal surgeon. That's a rather inconvenient daytime job for the leader of a super powerful organization who also happens to be an alcoholic.
Little girls have this special power against their daddies and will make them do alot of unusual things. Well I know my 4 year old does anyway. :biggrin:

I should know. Daddy's princess. :hypocrit: I think it has more to do with his marriage. His relationship with Claire's mother ended badly, but if you look at him in the hospital, it's obvious he cared about her a great deal. Maybe when Claire was a baby this second family was everything he didn't have in an unhappy marriage back home (Margo is portrayed as a rather cold fish, but I'm sure Christian screwed that one up as well. It's what he does). He wanted to mold Jack into a better version of what he knew he couldn't be and took out his insecurities on him, but maybe he wanted to do better with his daughter.

First we really don't know if Christian is even dead. Jack saw him on the island in season one and his corps is missing.

We do know he's dead because the writers confirmed it in interviews and have recently confirmed that visions=Smokey.

Not that I am advocating this theory, but why did Christian wait for days before he went to find Claire. Perhaps he was waiting as bait to get Jack to arrive and when he found out Jack was there it was time to set the rest of the plan in motion

Jack got to Australia AFTER Christian's death. He waited for days to go talk to Claire because he needed massive amounts of booze to gather up the courage to do it. Same reason he can't be a mighty leader of a powerful organization: because he's "weak" and runs from responsibility, etc.

*wipes brow* Phew. If he comes back in another flashback (I hope so), I might have to start a thread of my own called "He's not HIM and he's dead!" :biggrin:

Furthermore, there's a reason why Clark Kent is not a spinal surgeon. That's a rather inconvenient daytime job for the leader of a super powerful organization who also happens to be an alcoholic.

You and I think alike! This is my main argument that Christian is not HIM, too. When would he have found the time? :confused:

I love Christian. His relationship with Jack is brilliantly written and John Terry is a fantastic actor. If there's any kind of conspiracy to get these particular losties on the island, I want him involved because I want to see more of him.


Yes, I'm all for any plot that keeps Christian in on the action. The character is the most real and believable on the show. The other stereotypically bad dads and father figures are fun to watch but they lack Christian's depth and dimension.
And the nice thing is .... we don't have to worry about him dying :).

I like this thread, however, I don't think we've met 'him' yet. I also don't think we absolutely know that Jacob is 'him'. Jacob is only referred to as the maker of the list. There is no reference to Jacob being the same person as him. (But I acknowledge it probably is, just at the hostiles/others/dharma blur together)

Also, isn't Jack not on the 'list'? The guy that was going to execute Sawyer said this. If Christian created the list wouldn't Jack be on it?

Because of this episode I am now (for the first time) convinced that Christian's role is much more substantial. I still think that he's dead dead. Not just dead, but dead. We will not get to know Clair's mother any better, because we do not and won't get to know Jack's mother any better. The connection is in Christian and the real connnection is obviously yet to be revealed.

I really feel that if it is revealled that Christian is 'him' or Jacob, I will feel that the story line development will have been compromised. I think I'll feel cheated. I mean the build up for this guy has been tremendous. I'd feel better if it was Locke and the 'he walks among us but is not one of us' means Locke is 'him' and either knows it and is hiding it or doesn't know it but the island will reveal it to him. Christian would be a let down. Widmore would be a let down. This is going to be a Colonel Kurtz type. He will be an irresitible type.

And, no, I don't think it will be Locke.

This means nothing. All that it means is what we already knew the Others are creepy and know a little too much about everybody.