is it possible that could have been a clone of Jack?

uhh... no

Maybe it was Jack's twin brother. Did we see any tattoos?

What we saw was a brainwashed Jack, just like the captured tailies and what the others attempted to do to Carl.

My first thought was that it was Jack's clone, too. He just seemed happier than he ever had before...

I just thought he seemed downright wierd ! not Jack like at all, he must have been brainwashed, or he has a plan of his own and Kate came close to messing it up for him, but he should have known she wouldn't stay away. Very strange :eek2:

There are no clones. TPTB said it around the time that Bad Twin came out, because it was an obvious jump to make. Someone should make a list of all the theories (with proof) that TPTB have debunked so we stop getting so many threads about clones, people coming back to life, and characters being other characters (ie: Radzinsky is Patchy, which is impossible, because Radzinsky was confirmed dead as well).

So, I am going with Uncle Jack is brain washed!:43:

Maybe it is just Jack, doing what he can to make the others relax around him so he can excape.

What better way then to make them think he has very intention of living up to his word and plans on staying.

You can't build that kind of trust over night.

I agree. It's just Jack making a deal with the others. What that deal involves is anyone's guess. Maybe it's to get him off the island with all the other losties or just him.

Actually I thought he all ready made the deal. He agreed to stay, if they let Kate and Swayer go.

Now I think he is working on his own escape or aybe staying to learn what he can first.

Maybe it was just a nice day out and he felt like tossin the ball around. Jeez, he is stuck there, might as well make the best of it!!

Such an awesome and intriguing ending. At first I thought he was running towards Kate and then that damn football came down and into his arms. And I was like "WTF?!" I really cannot wait to find out more about what's going on.

It looked like a Jack clone in the hospital sweepin' or moppin' in one of (I can't remember which) Claire's flashbacks

Jack is way too stubborn to be "pretending" to like the others besides, it's only been a day or two since he did the surgery. He could have acted like this the whole time he was held captive and things would have been much better for him, but he can't bring himself to do it.

He is either brainwashed or that was his twin.

He was definantly brainwashed.
There IS a possiblity that he was cloned.
Why?
The Others took his blood when they first got him!

He was definantly brainwashed.
There IS a possiblity that he was cloned.
Why?
The Others took his blood when they first got him!

I'm sorry, but no, that's NOT a possibility. Why do people ignore quotes from TPTB when coming up with theories? You can say you didn't know, but I posted it on the first page.

Now I'm really considering making my own list of debunked theories.

I think we are probably seeing a Jack who is unburdened from the responsibility of being a leader of the Losties. Responsibility has always been a conflict for Jack. Jack has spent his life going from inferiority complex to superiority complex. All of his interaction with the world is based on it. He is ashamed and guilty when he believes he's failed; cocky and arrogant when things work-out. He's narcissitic and ego-centric. He believes he has some singularly unique form of talent and responsibility. He has a messiah complex. Being out of control, truly out of control, for the first time in a long time is certainly maddening but it can also be liberating.

I'm sorry, but no, that's NOT a possibility. Why do people ignore quotes from TPTB when coming up with theories? You can say you didn't know, but I posted it on the first page.

Now I'm really considering making my own list of debunked theories.

I shall worship you if you do.:41: If I may also ask if you could link me to some info on the different hatches. I am starting to get confused with there names and purpose, etc.

Princess V - I think you and I are seeing the same thing. Jack is a man that is "in your face" he would not be convincing as the type to adjust to being held captive. I think they put him in that room that young man was in. Why else would they let him roam about Othersville playing football and such?

They grew a clone of Jack out of his tattoos.

i don't buy the brainwash theory for one reason. Alex's boy friend was locked in that room and it didn't work on him.
I would think Jack would be much harder to break

Dude, we finally have an answer. The Others all along have wanted to have a football game against the Losties. Unfortunatly, their star reciever and captain, Ben got put on the injured list. So, they went and got Sawyer, Kate, and Dr. Jack to try to get them to play on the other team. The rock breaking thing was like spring training to get Kate and Sawyer ready for the big game.

Jack helped Ben, but was tricked. Ben wasn't going to send him "home", he was just going to have Jack play for the home team. Everything else was just the Others trying to even the score. Killing Eko? Yeah, that was the lostie's star linebacker. The giant brain cooking fence? Out of bounds my friends.

Mrs. Klugh was the Other's offensive coach. The conversation in Russian translates as follows:

Klugh: "They're going to torture me and get our playbook, we're screwed!! Shoot me"
Patchy: "Oh snap! I have money on that game, see you in hell"

Ah yes. It all makes sense now.

He was definantly brainwashed.
There IS a possiblity that he was cloned.
Why?
The Others took his blood when they first got him!

I'm going with brainwashed too. He just seemed TOO happy...unless Jack is just a bad actor :)

I agree, if the guy we saw playing football with the Others, was our Jack, and not a clone, or twin, then he has changed.

However, knowing Jack and his altruistic behavior, I believe that the Others have convinced him that they are, in fact, the Good Ones. I do not know who the Bad Ones are, but my guess is that they are either the group that roams the Lostie island, with the kids in tow, or they are the Losties,..themselves.

Jack now believes he serves a 'higher purpose' with the Others. He is not concerned with his friends, or anything else. He is where he is needed,....saving the world. Just a guess ;).

Such an awesome and intriguing ending. At first I thought he was running towards Kate and then that damn football came down and into his arms. And I was like "WTF?!" I really cannot wait to find out more about what's going on.

That really is the WTF moment of the second half of this season. i thought it was hillarious when they showed fat tom throwing him the ball. mabey hes jacks new dad.

Def not a clone. If anything i think he might have undergone that "brain washing" treatment that Carl had done to him? or maybe Jack and the Others have a nice little deal going.....though after what they put him through i can't see Jack's
stubborn character playing pass with the others.....

my guess is the brain washing

this has been a dead discussion since the end of season 2. yet somehow. like every episode a "jack's clone" or "jack's twin" thread pops up.

***Mod edited***

There are no clones. TPTB said it around the time that Bad Twin came out, because it was an obvious jump to make. Someone should make a list of all the theories (with proof) that TPTB have debunked so we stop getting so many threads about clones, people coming back to life, and characters being other characters (ie: Radzinsky is Patchy, which is impossible, because Radzinsky was confirmed dead as well).
There already is a list like this. It's called "What TPTB have said" and I think it is in Lost Talk.

Why do you all keep saying that the only options are brainwashing, cloning or twin?

You guys are looking just like Kate right now... so naive and unwilling to even entertain the notion of betrayal. Jack has learned to cooperate with the Others because he no longer believes that they are evil. He has come to understand them, to see their perspective and accept them. He also believes he is going to get home out of this deal. He's not particularly concerned about the rest of the Losties.

Mark my words.

I'm not sure this supports a clone theory or if this has been mentioned before, but right before Jack spikes the ball there is a reddish tattoo on the inside of his left forearm. If you look at the screen caps of him spiking you can clearly see it. Has this been mentioned before or has anyone else noticed it?

I'm not sure this supports a clone theory or if this has been mentioned before, but right before Jack spikes the ball there is a reddish tattoo on the inside of his left forearm. If you look at the screen caps of him spiking you can clearly see it. Has this been mentioned before or has anyone else noticed it?

***Mod edited***

Has anyone here read "Bad Twin"?

Ben has promised he would send Jack home, so maybe he's feeling a little elated.

Hey all -

I've been a regular lurker around the lage for quite awhile now, but this is my first post... I usually wait for someone to bring up a point that I was thinking, but I haven't seen this one yet:

It seems completely against Jack's character to just join the others so easily, and when we last saw them together, the Others weren't so keen on giving Jack any sort of freedom. Is it possible that this scene that Kate, Sayid, and Locke are seeing is a "mirage" similar to how Sayid and Shannon both saw Walt, or the horse or Christian, etc.?

Perhaps the island is playing some sort of trick on Kate & co. to deter them from their mission. Any thoughts?

christyjoy =)

I'd like to think it's just Jack being Jack. That is he made a deal with Ben and he's going to keep his side of it until either Ben reneges or until he's sure of what's really going on. As long as Kate and Sawyer were safe Jack has to wait for Ben's recovery for the next step.

From my POV I think, like I also predicted back in October, that Jack has just joined the Others. Probably he's been let on some pivotal secrets that have finally changed his perspective.
The question is when will WE change ours? Knowing the show I don't expect any time soon. If we are lucky it'll be at the season's finale.
But I just wish I'm wrong on this one. :cool:

I immediately thought of a clone/twin thing as well. That small scene was so out of character for the Jack we know. I know the producers have said "no clones" but they also said no "time travel". In the case of Desmond they seemed to have worked through that by suggesting some sort of linear reality or time bending issue. With the thought of "cloning" perhaps they are tiptoeing around that as well. Maybe it is not a clone/twin but I dont buy the whole "pretend to be a friend so i can escape theory". Like all I am most anxious to uncover the truth here and I sure dont mind being wrong but it seems to me that this isnt some sort of "ploy" by Jack. It is likely not a clone but it sure does get our mind wandering down a different path that migth provide a more impressive answer.

Remember that time moves slowly in this show, about a day or two per episode. Its only been a short time since Jack was brutalized by the Others. I doubt he'd happily play ball with them no matter what he learned, good guys or not. I'm going with DRUGGED, just like Claire was by Ethan. That or Jack is an Other himself. I'm convinced the Losties we put there to attack/destroy the Others. Locke is doing a good job too. Jack didn't want the button pushed from the start. Jack just might be an Other or is drugged. Brainwashing takes a long time.

I think RodimusBen has a really good point.

A lot of you feel an attachment towards Jack's character, and are letting your personal feelings about him confuse the issue. I get the feeling that a lot of you think that the only explanations are that Jack is brainwashed, or that he is really pulling a "long con" over on the Others while secretly fighting in the name of the 815ers.

While I agree that based on what we know of Jack's character, we can say with some certainty that he wouldn't just go and side with the Others for no reason. But there are countless reasons that Jack could have for changing sides:

We know that the Others are doing something on the Island that is very important, at least to them. If the Others told Jack what they're doing on the Island, he might find it as important as they do, and decide to help out.

Or Jack could simply be making the best of his time in Otherville, seeing as how he is obligated to stay with Ben throughout his recovery.

Also, we need to remember that Jack has believes he's gonig home. He also knows that Juliet's going home, and probably does have romantic feelings towards Juliet of one kind or another.

In addition to what I previously said (and I'll go out on a limb on this) I specifically think that in changing his perspective, Jack also changed attitude towards the Losties. I'm sure he won't be as friendly as we should expect. Of course I think the secrets he's been let on are surely mindblowing. I bet they will be the "never-saw-it-coming thing" the producers announced.

"He walks among them, but he is not one of them"

In my opinion, that's the answer.

I think RodimusBen has a really good point.

A lot of you feel an attachment towards Jack's character, and are letting your personal feelings about him confuse the issue. I get the feeling that a lot of you think that the only explanations are that Jack is brainwashed, or that he is really pulling a "long con" over on the Others while secretly fighting in the name of the 815ers.

While I agree that based on what we know of Jack's character, we can say with some certainty that he wouldn't just go and side with the Others for no reason. But there are countless reasons that Jack could have for changing sides:

We know that the Others are doing something on the Island that is very important, at least to them. If the Others told Jack what they're doing on the Island, he might find it as important as they do, and decide to help out.

Or Jack could simply be making the best of his time in Otherville, seeing as how he is obligated to stay with Ben throughout his recovery.

Also, we need to remember that Jack has believes he's gonig home. He also knows that Juliet's going home, and probably does have romantic feelings towards Juliet of one kind or another.

Naaaa. If you had been held in a glass walled aquarium for days, had guns shoved in your face, been thrown into a cage, been threatened, watched your friends be hunted down, saw Juliet's brand on her back, etc, what could you have heard that would make you want to go play football a day or two later with the people who did all of that? The only thing I can think of is that Jack learns none of it is real, everyone is ok, no one has died, no one has been hurt, its all an illusion. I don't think that's true, so I'm sticking with drugged. That or he is one of them or pulling a very good con, either of which would really surprise me.

I still think a lot of people are looking at the Others from that black-and-white, good-and-evil TV mentality. Y'all are in for a rude awakening.

Ok, here are my thoughts.

1. The clone theory – no offense to anyone – is just stupid. From a writer's point of view, it makes no sense that, after almost two seasons and a half... voilà here comes a clone out of nowhere. It wouldn't be a shocking revelation, nor a smart one. It would really look like the writers of the show are definitely out of good ideas to keep the show going. And then, cloning for which purpose? To have an army of strong "good" people? Then the island should be crowded by now. And why search new people to clone when you can clone again and again the good and strong people of your community? If their society was based on cloning technology, why the need to fix Ben? They could use a healthy clone. And one more thing: the Others have achieved the technology for cloning, but they can't cure a spinal tumor and they make use of old 1980's Dharma technology? Unless they like vintage, this seems a little incoherent to me.

2. Brainwashed. Why, how and when? If the Room 23, where Karl was put, is actually a place built for brainwashing, why not brainwash Jack there before leaving the smaller island in "Stranger in a strange land?". Moreover, to brainwash someone like Jack you need more than a day or two, unless they have a magic potion and they put it in Jack's coffee unbeknownst to him. And Jack, if I'm not mistaken, has been with them for less than a week.

3. I think that Jack is "studying the enemy from within". The best thing to do to deal with any enemy is to know it. That's what I think Jack is doing. He made a deal with Ben: I'll take care of your recovery if you don't have Juliet condemned to death. Ben has probably given Jack some space, and anyway Jack is in "enemy" territory and probably under surveillance. Maybe what we saw was the only moment in the day when Jack was free to go out, who knows. There are a lot of more believable possibilities other than "cloning" and "brainwashing": a) Jack might have a plan and he's playing along. b) The Others have shared some information with Jack which made him change his perspective on things. c) Jack might want to show that he's integrating in Others' society, even willing to help them so that he can make a new deal for the other Losties' well-being. d) Maybe the Others have offered him a way home. And so on.

In any case, a brief scene with a smiling Jack playing football is really not enough to understand what's going on or to jump to conclusions so quickly.

My two cents,
Rick

The only thing I can think of is that Jack learns none of it is real, everyone is ok, no one has died, no one has been hurt, its all an illusion. I don't think that's true, so I'm sticking with drugged. That or he is one of them or pulling a very good con, either of which would really surprise me.

Why would they drug/brain wash him, and then have him go outside and play football. I dont think the others were like "okay we've brain washed the main man of flight 815, now we can get him to do anything...football game!"

I have to agree with those saying that the best explanation for Jack's behaviour is some sort of realisation, something that would make all everything he and the others had been through insignificant. I'm not saying that's a good explanation, I'm just saying it's better than the idea that he is a clone (!) or that he has been brainwashed - surely they would have done this previously if they had a way to make him acquiesce.

Judging by the look on his face I would also say that he's getting some loving, whether from Juliette or Tom... maybe that's the big revelation for Jack?

There's is always the zombie explanation.

uhh a clone would take x amount of years to reach x age. so if the jack we know is 30, it would take 30 years for the clone to look 30. clones dont instantly become a person at whatever age you chose....

uhh a clone would take x amount of years to reach x age. so if the jack we know is 30, it would take 30 years for the clone to look 30. clones dont instantly become a person at whatever age you chose....
It depends what sort of Sci-Fi you're watching. Sometimes they just spring out of a machine which has lots of lights on it. I mean, we're not talking about reality here.

uhh a clone would take x amount of years to reach x age. so if the jack we know is 30, it would take 30 years for the clone to look 30. clones dont instantly become a person at whatever age you chose....

Well, unless it's The Island. Which is a scary thought. A Michael Bay version of Lost. *shivers*

Why would they drug/brain wash him, and then have him go outside and play football. I dont think the others were like "okay we've brain washed the main man of flight 815, now we can get him to do anything...football game!"
:24: Dude!! Ok, I see what you mean. I scratch my "brain wash" theory.

http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage-47-381.html
Jack had the tatt from the beginning.

I don't think they cloned him. If the producers turned to that, then they haven't paid attention to the failure Marvel made during the 90's. In the Spider-Man series, there was a Clone Sage where there were several clones of Peter Parker, and they said, "I'm the real Peter Parker!" And during a rigged test, one of the clones (aka Ben Reilley) was mistakenly shown to be the real Parker, making fans thinking the real Peter Parker people followed along with for 2 decades was a clone. Fortunately, the clone was shown to be a clone after all. If there is any good reason not to have clones for a twist in a series, look at Spider-Man during the 90's to notice their mistake.

If the producers make the same mistake as Marvel, it would be poor judgement. (Although I normally dislike clone stories, I liked The Island)

Ok.. I have given this lots of thought and since today I am off from work, I had lots of time to do it. ..
I truly believe that Jack is a clone and he sprang out of a machine which has lots of lights on it after Vincent pushed several buttons in order to get gourmet dry dog food with Evian spring water in a trough as sauce. Thus, Vincent freed himself from a cage (much like Sawyer's cage during his visit to Otherville) and after eating his food reward -- desired dessert. He ran through the jungle and found Jack - he licked Jack's tattoo and soon became thirsty - so he (Vincent) returned to the water trough in Otherville and drank some water.. What he didn't know was that the Others were taking samples from Vincent by filtering the water and they were able to get TNA (sorta like DNA, but it comes from tattoos) and hence they put the TNA into the machine which has lots of lights on it and voila! they made a clone of Jack. Meanwhile, back at band camp.. I mean, Lostie camp, Locke is investigating all sorts of things. The Others decide to further test their TNA and manufacture a fine particulate powder that can be inhaled through breathing (as opposed to being inhaled another way) and they directed an invisible stream of this particulate to Locke. As a result, Locke became fascinated with pushing buttons (this is actually residual Vincent behavior - and was positively reinforced much like a skinner box experiment when Vinnie was able to get food after pushing buttons) Locke pushes buttons and gets intermittant signals stemming from the TNA - however, there's a slight glitch in the signal and Locke's brain interprets the TNA as TNT - which he reads as "EXPLODE" - and that is why most things that Locke deals with ends up blowing up.

Why would they drug/brain wash him, and then have him go outside and play football. I dont think the others were like "okay we've brain washed the main man of flight 815, now we can get him to do anything...football game!"

Ok, if not drugged then maybe it is as simple as Jack's job is done. Remember Ben telling Jack something to the effect that a few days after he found out he would need spinal surgery a spinal surgeon (Jack) fell out of the sky onto his island? Maybe Jack, and each Lostie, are there for a reason, each with their own purpose. Jack to fix up Ben for example. I've already been thinking that Locke is there to blow up the place (two stations destroyed and counting...). At least Locke believes he is there for a reason, some purpose. If Jack's job is done, maybe he's been told everything and now is sitting back, just like whats-her-name the stewardess who calmly talked to a frantic Jack when he was held in the cage, as though nothing was wrong. The stewardess's job may have been done. If this line of thought pans out, one has to wonder what Kate and Sayid's jobs are. Locke's job is simple, blow up all of the stations. :^) As to how they got their jobs, well, I think we're back to brainwashing again, but before they got on the plane, all except Jack whose skills were already in place.