Desmond had told Charlie that every time he tries to save him,he end up dying anyway. But could Charlie's death be related to his involvement with Claire and baby Aaron?Let's take a look. When Desmond prevent Charlie from trying to save Claire,by have him go into the jungle with him, to discuss Eko's death. We found out that Charlie would have died, trying to "save Claire from drowning". In Par Avion, Desmond once again step in to save Charlie,this time Charlie dies trying to catch a seagull" for Claire" . It seem like Charlie death is cause by his involvement with Claire. Charlie have been in dangerous situation before, and survive.Charlie survive the plane crash, he was chase by the monster, in "Numbers" he went over a frail bridge, that broke from under him, and he still survive,he also, went down a hill in a none working car with Hurley,yet he survive. So I ask you, do you think Charlie's death could be related to his involvement with Claire? Think about what the psychic Malkin had told Claire in Raise by another. Malkin had told Claire that no one else can raise her child but her. We assume that he only meant that she wasn't to give the child up for adoption. But now I see that it might have deeper meaning. Malkin exact words to Claire , were:
"This child parented by anyone else, anyone other than you -- danger surrounds this baby. . .

Malkin means that Claire is suppose to raise the child alone, without anyone else to influence it. Which means that as long as Charlie try to play daddy to little Aaron, his life would be in danger. If you think about the first time Charlie died, that too was related to Claire. Charlie was with Claire when Ethan took Claire, and than hung Charlie. So every time Charlie had died, it was some how connect to Claire. Charlie is not suppose to help Claire to raise Aaron. Only Claire and Claire alone , is the only one who should raise Aaron.

Comments? views?and opinions are welcome

Well played creepy blinking doll avatar person, well played indeed.

I had a theory that Claire and Charlie's fates were intertwined based on Desmond's visions. Ultimatly, you have put together a better laid out example than I had come up with. My idea was that Claire was doomed along side Charlie because Desmond interfered with the first Charlie mortality vision.

The seccond one was Charlie swimming out to save Claire and he drowns. Well, if he drown in the rescue mission, we can probably assume that Claire would suffer the same liquid fate since it is unlikely she would be saved. I figured that now Desmond would have to watch out for both of them since he saw her death and prevented it as well by going out instead of the hobbit.

Anyhow, I see what you did there, and in my own round about way totally agree. Charlie may just be too close to Aaron and that is what has put him in the Death Note.

Desmond had told Charlie that every time he tries to save him,he end up dying anyway. But could Charlie's death be related to his involvement with Claire and baby Aaron?Let's take a look. When Desmond prevent Charlie from trying to save Claire,by have him go into the jungle with him, to discuss Eko's death. We found out that Charlie would have died, trying to "save Claire from drowning". In Par Avion, Desmond once again step in to save Charlie,this time Charlie dies trying to catch a seagull" for Claire" . It seem like Charlie death is cause by his involvement with Claire. Charlie have been in dangerous situation before, and survive.Charlie survive the plane crash, he was chase by the monster, in "Numbers" he went over a frail bridge, that broke from under him, and he still survive,he also, went down a hill in a none working car with Hurley,yet he survive. So I ask you, do you think Charlie's death could be related to his involvement with Claire? Think about what the psychic Malkin had told Claire in Raise by another. Malkin had told Claire that no one else can raise her child but her. We assume that he only meant that she wasn't to give the child up for adoption. But now I see that it might have deeper meaning. Malkin exact words to Claire , were:
"This child parented by anyone else, anyone other than you -- danger surrounds this baby. . .

Malkin means that Claire is suppose to raise the child alone, without anyone else to influence it. Which means that as long as Charlie try to play daddy to little Aaron, his life would be in danger. If you think about the first time Charlie died, that too was related to Claire. Charlie was with Claire when Ethan took Claire, and than hung Charlie. So every time Charlie had died, it was some how connect to Claire. Charlie is not suppose to help Claire to raise Aaron. Only Claire and Claire alone , is the only one who should raise Aaron.

Comments? views?and opinions are welcome

This is such an interesting theory, and I think that you are right. You mentioned Charlie drowning and him getting pushed on the rocks trying to get the birds, but the lightning death was also connected to Claire. Charlie was in Claire's tent when he was supposed to get struck by the lightning. All of this can't be a coincidence. Great thinking:)

his is such an interesting theory, and I think that you are right. You mentioned Charlie drowning and him getting pushed on the rocks trying to get the birds, but the lightning death was also connected to Claire. Charlie was in Claire's tent when he was supposed to get struck by the lightning. All of this can't be a coincidence. Great thinking

..thanks,I almost forgot about the lightning hitting the tent. Charlie would have been toast. I think the only reason why Charlie is in danger is because of his involvement with baby Aaron

While all the survives watches over baby Aaron, Charlie is the only one who actually play daddy to him. In the episode Abandon Charlie even had the nerve to get mad at Claire, when she woke baby Aaron up, in order to take him with her. Charlie acts like he knows what was best for baby Aaron..although it's not his child. Claire is not suppose to let anyone else influence the way she raise her baby, or death would surround them/the baby. That is why Charlie keep dying. No one else is suppose to parent Aaron, but Claire. That why the Psychic was glad that Thomas was gone form Claire's life.

Another theory regarding Charlie and Aaron...

Charlie's freaky dreams in 'Fire + Water' told him that Aaron was in danger and only Charlie could save him. Maybe Charlie's real destiny is to be the saviour of Aaron, but there are forces at work that don't want Charlie to fulfil that destiny.

I think Charlie is helping with the Malkin prophecy - not interfering with it. Charlie is working to keep Claire and Aaron together and protect them. I think the dangerous forces that are surrounding Aaron probably want both Charlie and Claire out of the way so that Aaron can be "raised by another" and doom will fall (or whatever).

Aaron is now the focus of a long chain of protection - Claire protects Aaron, Charlie protects Claire, Desmond protects Charlie. The forces that are sending Desmond his flashes are working against the forces trying to kill Charlie and break the chain.

when desmond mentioned charlie's death to claire, i was thinking the samething. everytime charlie has been in danger, it has involved claire. i don't blame charlie though. if i was stranded on an island, i would want to spend as much time with claire as possible.

I love this whole theory. I only have one problem with it. Maybe one of you could shed some light on it for me.

Desmond, shot off his rife and scared the birds on purpose. If he hadn't done that, Claire would have netted a bird. Then there would have been no reason for Charlie to be on the rock trying to catch another bird for her.

That one part doesn't add up for me.

I've believed ever since FBYE that whatever power is represented by the Ring Lady is trying to kill Charlie to convince Desmond that he can't change fate. Remember that Desmond got sent back immediately after seeing the soccer game convinced him that he could change things after all.

I think he can change things, but the Ring Lady/Island/whatever wants him to believe he can't.

Okay so Desmond has a visions of Charlie dying and he steps in and changes things. That I understand.

What I don't understand is why he scared the birds away.

Unless Claire catching a bird would have some how caused Charlie to die and it was just easier to save him the way he did?

Desmond did try and get Charlie away from the whole bird thing right from the get go. That whole part confusses me. Maybe I'm just reading to much in to it.

Really good point... every time Charlie 'dies' it is because he's doing something for Claire. The first one, nothing really to help Claire, then he drowns trying to save her, and then he gets killed apparently trying to get her a bird. All three, Claire has something to do with it. Maybe Claire will be the death of him.

I think Desmond had to scare off the birds initially. There's no reason for him to do it unless he knows that these actions are leading to Charlie's death. Desmond probably saw the net catch a bird, only for the bird to escape, forcing Charlie to chase/follow it to the rocks. It did seem a little odd, but I'm sure there is a reason.

Anyway, Charlie's fate connected to his attempted fathering of Aaron. Interesting. I'm not sure where I stand on it really, but the whole Charlie's fate storyline is starting to interest me now. There are so many ways for the writers to take it.

Very nice Iamlost! You know, I've thought about the whole "raised by another" thing several times when we see Charlie playing daddy. Something didn't feel right. And, I had also noticed on some level that Charlie always nearly dies saving Claire. But I hadn't put it all together and addressed it. It was still kind of in the lower levels of consciousness. Very good job of putting it all together! I believe you are absolutely right.

Like you said, he has been in far more dangerous situations that should have killed him. If he was just fated to die, he would have died in one of those other situations, when Des wasn't there to save him.

What this group needs is a daily chat...storytelling time. If Claire would just share her experience with the Psychic with Charlie, he might put it all together. Otherwise, the only way he will survive is if he and Claire spit up. Unfortunately for Charlie, now that Claire knows the story, and that he keeps putting himself in danger to save her, she loves him more than ever.

If Claire would just share her experience with the Psychic with Charlie, he might put it all together.

Charlie does know about the Malkin prophecy. Claire told him in 'Raised by Another'. Charlie was the one who worked out that Malkin put her on Flight 815 knowing she would end up stuck on the island and be forced to raise Aaron herself.

Just a thought, maybe Claire's involvement with Charlie's demise and Desmond's prevention of his death are connected with what Shephard said to Claire in the airport.. "don't keep someone alive for selfish reasons"?

Although I like iamlost2's theory very much!!

One thought: I really like the idea of Charlie's death somehow relating to Aaron. However, keep in mind that Claire is involved in all of Charlie's near-death experiences because Charlie is almost always with Claire. For that reason, almost all of Charlie's near death experiences are going to involve Claire, to some extent.

One thought: I really like the idea of Charlie's death somehow relating to Aaron. However, keep in mind that Claire is involved in all of Charlie's near-death experiences because Charlie is almost always with Claire. For that reason, almost all of Charlie's near death experiences are going to involve Claire, to some extent.

True! Even the first near death experiences Charlie had with Ethan, also involve Claire. ..but on the other hand, Charlie have been trying to be a parent to Aaron since day one. He acted like a expected father.

In theory:
In Fire & Ice, the first dream Charlie had involved baby Aaron crib floating in the water, and he went in to save it. Charlie can't swim, which means he probably would have drown, if he wasn't interrupted. So could the death that suppose to surround baby Aaron, be cause by baby Aaron? Did the Psychic see something in the baby future that he can grow up to be evil, if others are allow to influence him?

I totally think its related to Claire. I mean hes only getting hurt trying to help her.
Like the psychic said "your to raise this baby alone". I think this may be more true than she knows . I mean he sure cahnged from Raise her alone to Adoptive parents in the states. Alpert had a hand in this by god! :P just drunk ramblings

This is an axcellent theory, but I think we are missing the point. This is all about DESMOND, not Charlie/Claire/Aaron. Desmonds original mission was to be a savoir, and he was doing that by pushing the button. Now that is done because he was a coward and ran away rather than trying to fix the computer back in early Season 2. Now some outside force is course-correcting him back to being Charlie's savoir. Seems like Desmond will spend all eternity "saving" Charlie and Claire and Aaron. Perhaps we will find in another Desmond flashback that this is to atone for his "not following orders" while he was in the military. Maybe he was a coward then and caused the death of someone, now he has to truly be a savoir to make up for it. I know this smacks of purgatory, but...

Maybe all these circumstances that look as if Charlie would have been killed would in fact never have killed Charlie. I think it's a test for Desmond, not destiny for Charlie.

So... if Charlie's immenent death is all related to Claire, then wouldn't the way to save him to have him drop his relationship with her?? It seems kind of drastic, as they are in love and all, but Desmond can't always be around saving Charlie before he dies.

However, keep in mind that Claire is involved in all of Charlie's near-death experiences because Charlie is almost always with Claire. For that reason, almost all of Charlie's near death experiences are going to involve Claire, to some extent.

Yes, but the most dangerous thing Charlie has done recently was go hurtling down a steep hill in a rusty old van with Hurley. Why didn't the universe snatch up that golden oppotunity to kill Charlie then? Because Claire wasn't involved maybe...

I agree that there seems to be some kind of connection. I've always thought that Jack somehow tricked fate when he brought Charlie back from the dead in season 1. And that instance was also connected to Claire. I'm still not sure if he is targeted because he is helping Claire protect Aaron and raise him or if it's because he is a threat to Claire's raising of Aaron.

Interesting....

so, the only thing I have a problem with is the premise that Charlie and Claire are in love.

Charlie obviously is obsessed with Claire(and her parenting skills).

Claire is NOT in love with Charlie that I can see. She sometimes tolerates him, and
sometimes likes being with him. Love? Not yet. Possibly in the future. Or not.

so, the only thing I have a problem with is the premise that Charlie and Claire are in love. I'm confused. I don't think it was stated in the premise that they had to be in love. :confused:

As for this theory, I don't think that Charlie dying has something to do with Claire.... The firts two occurrences, the writers were leading us to believe that it was Claire who was in danger so they could have their big twist at the end of FBYE. So she had to be involved.

The 3rd one, it was her episode. So it's logic she was somewhat involve in it.

There's a theory out there that says it's water that is always present when Charlie is dying. I tend to believe that more than Claire being involved in Charlie's death.

I'm confused. I don't think it was stated in the premise that they had to be in love. :confused:

As for this theory, I don't think that Charlie dying has something to do with Claire.... The firts two occurrences, the writers were leading us to believe that it was Claire who was in danger so they could have their big twist at the end of FBYE. So she had to be involved.

The 3rd one, it was her episode. So it's logic she was somewhat involve in it.

There's a theory out there that says it's water that is always present when Charlie is dying. I tend to believe that more than Claire being involved in Charlie's death.

you could say charlie and claire are in a somewhat toxic relationship. :rolleyes:

as for your point about the water...well if thats the case..charlie's in trouble, seeing as they're on an island surrounded by water. but water wasnt present when charlie "died" in season 1 (unless you count the rain).

so, the only thing I have a problem with is the premise that Charlie and Claire are in love.

Charlie obviously is obsessed with Claire(and her parenting skills).

Claire is NOT in love with Charlie that I can see. She sometimes tolerates him, and
sometimes likes being with him. Love? Not yet. Possibly in the future. Or not.

True,very true. There has been no indication that Claire is in love with Charlie. While Charlie might have strong feeling for Claire, they have not be return. What I do not like, is Charlie jealous nature. He became upset when Locke was paying attention to Claire, and he seem upset when Desmond was only talking to Claire. Suppose Claire like Desmond? what do you think Charlie would do?

as for your point about the water...well if thats the case..charlie's in trouble, seeing as they're on an island surrounded by water. but water wasnt present when charlie "died" in season 1 (unless you count the rain).

*The rain counts*...so far it do seem like when ever Charlie is in trouble, it often around water, or raining. When Charlie had the dream in fire &ice, he awoken in the water. When Charlie tried to kidnapped Sun, again, there was water. It was raining.

why...why...why did i come here and read this particular board....now i know charlie dies and i dont see it untill next week!!!
and now im depressesd...he dies!!!!
is this a sad drawn out death???

We don't know if he dies. Desmond has said he would but whether or not that will happen no-one knows. Unless they read spoilers on the subject.

why...why...why did i come here and read this particular board....now i know charlie dies and i dont see it untill next week!!!
and now im depressesd...he dies!!!!
is this a sad drawn out death???

..You must not have read the whole thread. Charlie died in season 1,when someone hung him. :biggrin: That death was connect to Claire, and since everytime Desmond sees flashes of Charlie dying, it happens to involve Clarie. So, indirectly, Charlie's death could be because of his involvement with Claire, and Aaron.

Question: Do anyone know why Desmond only receive flashes of Charlie dying? he never seen flashes of Nikki, and Paulo dying, only Charlie. Could Charlie be related to Desmond? We know that Desmond father walk out on his family, and Desmond had to take care of his 3 brothers. We know that Charlie father was a butcher. have they ever shown Desmond's father? , or Charlie's father?

hmm i can see i put 2+2 together and got 5.
In the next week thingy at the end of each episode,there was a clip of clair crying over someone and repeting "im sorry ,im so sorry"

then i came here and read the post......and took it as he had actually died.

god i feel like a dork....:redface:

hmm i can see i put 2+2 together and got 5.
In the next week thingy at the end of each episode,there was a clip of clair crying over someone and repeting "im sorry ,im so sorry"

then i came here and read the post......and took it as he had actually died.

god i feel like a dork....

What episode was that , where Claire is crying over someone? What episode are you on?

What episode was that , where Claire is crying over someone? What episode are you on?

New Zealand will be seeing Par Avion tonight so it's her mother in the fb she's crying over.