ok..some people have speculated that anthony cooper could be the real sawyer, since he's a conman. how would this pan out, since he's now on the island? do you think it was done on purpose? after all..there would be no real way of knowing unless sawyer saw the real sawyer, right?

don't forget the "Box" brought him to the island

although i think he was already there, he's invloved in the funding of the hostiles, just a thought

when the detectives were talking to Locke in the recovery room, they said that Cooper "might be anywhere in the world". I immediately imagined him being on the island, snickered and kind of pushed the idea away.

But wow, who would have thunk it, eh

There seem to be too many connections for Cooper and the real Sawyer to not be related somehow. Ideally they would be the same person - but TPTB may not go that far... I am eager to see this play out.

SO, this box thing... are we to believe that only a select few have the power to use it. I would presume so. Ben was intrigued by John's connection to the island.

Also, when Ben said 'bring in the man from Tallahassee', I thought he meant John's father... but if they were bringing him in then would we assume he was not in the box... man I dunno what to think about that...

I'm a strong believer that Cooper is the real Sawyer. I always thought that It would be sad if Sawyer never got off the island to get his revenge on the man who ruined his life. I haven't seen the episode yet but if Cooper really is on the island somehow, It would work out well for Sawyer :biggrin:

Cooper = Mr. Sawyer.

That's the one theory I've gotten behind from the get-go!

I'm a strong believer that Cooper is the real Sawyer. I always thought that It would be sad if Sawyer never got off the island to get his revenge on the man who ruined his life. I haven't seen the episode yet but if Cooper really is on the island somehow, It would work out well for Sawyer :biggrin:

too many really strong connections too pass, I agree. Plus Cooper is about the right age to have been part of Sawyer's life. If Jack and Claire can share a dad, so can Locke and Sawyer!

too many really strong connections too pass, I agree. Plus Cooper is about the right age to have been part of Sawyer's life. If Jack and Claire can share a dad, so can Locke and Sawyer!

i wonder if the box could conjure up christian? we could have a big ole island family reunion.

so maybe sawyer will send out a search party to find kate...and that's how he'll come across cooper.

this will get debated elsewhere, but since it has started, I think Cooper is part of the long con Ben is playing. If the story goes that way, a con or a psychological experiment.

this will get debated elsewhere, but since it has started, I think Cooper is part of the long con Ben is playing. If the story goes that way, a con or a psychological experiment.


he is without a doubt pulling something, but I think what intrigues us most, is for what purpose? A simple experiment is too simple. I think we're all hoping for a great big master plan.

sawyer doesn't even know what his sawyer looks like,

a con or a psychological experiment.

Perhaps not a con or but rather a con that is a psychological experiment. Though I think it is more on an intervention that an experiment; one the losties have no idea of hence it could be considered a con.

Also, in response to 'dm', I am pretty sure there is a short list of those who can conjure up a ghost from the box - obviously John is on that list. I doubt any of the other losties are able.

Come to think of it, I wonder if that is Jacob's List - a list of those who have the ability to use the box. Hm, new thread on the way...
http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=73163

sawyer doesn't even know what his sawyer looks like,


i think he does. remember the letter that kate read? he knew he had sex with his mom...so im assuming that the real sawyer came around to the house. so it is possible that james saw him.


and jack might have the ability to "conjure"...he did see his father in the first season, remember?

sawyer doesn't even know what his sawyer looks like,


I think you might be right. Little James may have seen the real Sawyer around the house and have a vague idea of what he looks like but when he killed Frank Duckett in "Outlaws" he believed that Frank was the real Sawyer. If he had a clear image of the real Sawyer in his mind, he would have known that Frank was the wrong guy. Before Sawyer recognizes the real Sawyer, he's going to need some other sort of proof.

I think you might be right. Little James may have seen the real Sawyer around the house and have a vague idea of what he looks like but when he killed Frank Duckett in "Outlaws" he believed that Frank was the real Sawyer. If he had a clear image of the real Sawyer in his mind, he would have known that Frank was the wrong guy. Before Sawyer recognizes the real Sawyer, he's going to need some other sort of proof.

well...seeing as how the Others seem to know everything about everyone...i doubt that proof will be much of an issue.

I have definitely thought that Cooper=real Sawyer since we learned that he was a con-man. Should be interesting to see how the dynamic changes between Locke and Sawyer if they ever figure this out.
Also, when Ben said 'bring in the man from Tallahassee', I thought he meant John's father... but if they were bringing him in then would we assume he was not in the box... man I dunno what to think about that...Yeah, unless he was referring to "conjuring" him up in the "box".

I 100% believe Cooper is Sawyer. I believe that was made clear during Lockdown. I am PSYCHED at the possibility of James getting to meet him. I wonder who hates him more, James or Locke?
too many really strong connections too pass, I agree. Plus Cooper is about the right age to have been part of Sawyer's life. If Jack and Claire can share a dad, so can Locke and Sawyer!
Sawyer actually isn't James' dad. Sawyer SLEPT with James' mother, causing James' father to kill her and himself while James hid under the bed.

So could this have anything to do with Sawyer's line in Season 2...?

"You may have been to Phuket, Doc, but I've been to Talahassee... let's just say something was burning and it wasn't from the sunshine."

I agree with the idea that "Cooper" could be the real Sawyer. If Claire and Jack can have the same dad, then why couldn't this connection be true?

this will get debated elsewhere, but since it has started, I think Cooper is part of the long con Ben is playing. If the story goes that way, a con or a psychological experiment.


I agree, Alex kept talking about how her father manipulates people. My thought was, Ben gets you in the box, finds out what you want, then MAKES it happen (like kidnapping lockes dad) then of course you believe in the "Magical Box" and never want to leave the island, but of couse you would be under the illusion you could leave anytime you wanted via submarine. Ben would make you think it was YOUR idea to stay. Sounds like a con to me.

I think you might be right. Little James may have seen the real Sawyer around the house and have a vague idea of what he looks like but when he killed Frank Duckett in "Outlaws" he believed that Frank was the real Sawyer. If he had a clear image of the real Sawyer in his mind, he would have known that Frank was the wrong guy. Before Sawyer recognizes the real Sawyer, he's going to need some other sort of proof.

Ooh, good point! But as others have said, I'm sure some proof could be procured to show Sawyer this guy is the real Sawyer. Which I definitely think he is too! I think they are setting up for an episode when Sawyer will confront him - with all we know about the letter, the Frank Duckett incident, etc - I doubt we wouldn't get to see Sawyer confront him.

I agree, Alex kept talking about how her father manipulates people. My thought was, Ben gets you in the box, finds out what you want, then MAKES it happen (like kidnapping lockes dad) then of course you believe in the "Magical Box" and never want to leave the island, but of couse you would be under the illusion you could leave anytime you wanted via submarine. Ben would make you think it was YOUR idea to stay. Sounds like a con to me.Oh definitely. As he was describing the need for the submarine, he was openly describing a con... and as he was doing so, he was conning Locke!

Okay Cooper is a con man and the man Sawyer hates who was the real Sawyer was a con man. Does anybody else think this too?

That's what I thought too! I know for Sawyer fans, the Tallahassee job is the big unknown they're dying to see. It seems like perhaps it is connected to the man from Tallahassee...

That's the Tampa job.

That's the Tampa job.

Haha, oops! :redface: Thanks, pacejunkie!

I read at the time that they cut a line from Lockdown that made it unambiguous that Cooper was the real Sawyer. So I think that's a gimme with Cooper now on the island--unless he's a Smokey manifestation like Yemi or Christian Shepherd.

And there is no magic box; it's a metaphor for the island's mystical powers, which it apparently is withholding from native Ben, much to his displeasure. Believe me, all Ben's stuff about wishing for something and there it was is a cover for some very meticulous planning he and Jacob have been doing.

Cardie

when the detectives were talking to Locke in the recovery room, they said that Cooper "might be anywhere in the world". I immediately imagined him being on the island, snickered and kind of pushed the idea away.

But wow, who would have thunk it, eh

LOL, I had that same feeling when Ben told Locke that he wanted to stay on the island because it was the only place in the world his father would not find him.

LOL, I had that same feeling when Ben told Locke that he wanted to stay on the island because it was the only place in the world his father would not find him.

I'm glad that was explained to me because I didn't understand why Locke wouldn't have just let Jack and Juliet go off in the sub if they could never find their way back anyway. I guess Locke was scared to take a chance that Ben might be wrong. It's not that he doesn't want anyone to leave the island, it's that Locke doesn't ever want to be found.

I definitely think Sawyer is looking for the same guy, and Sawyer is probably going to be the one to kill him once he finds out about it.

I always figured that Cooper had Locke beaten up, but I didn't really think he would do it himself. That was a pretty big shocker.

Could we have a big showdown between Locke and Sawyer (James)? For all Cooper has done to him, Locke always seems to protect him. When Peter came to ask Locke about him, he easily could have sold him out but didn't. Didn't sell him out to the police at first. And all this after the man takes his kidneys and causes the loss of his relationship.

And here comes Sawyer, who if all the speculation is correct would most certainly want to kill Cooper. Will Locke defend him again?

Most definitely!!! As soon as Ben said "Go get the man from Tallahassee", I turned to my wife and exclaimed "THey've got Cooper on the Island!" She said "No way!" BUt I was right! And then I said "And guess what, if he's the man from Tallahassee, he's GOT to be the 'real Sawyer'"!

Don't ask me why, because I don't know, but I am just totally convinced from a gut feeling that we'll find out that Cooper is the man who swindled Sawyer's parents when he was a little kid.

:wavey: Me! ME!

I've felt this way since we learned Cooper CONNED Locke out of a kidney! Two skilled older con men? On LOST, a show where there are NO coincidences? Nuh-uh!

Cooper = Mr. Sawyer.

Please, TPTB, please let Sawyer finally get his revenge.

I am positive that Cooper is the real Sawyer.

But who deserves to kill Cooper more? Locke or Sawyer? That's a tougher question. ;)

there would be no real way of knowing unless sawyer saw the real sawyer, right?

sawyer doesn't even know what his sawyer looks like,

well...seeing as how the Others seem to know everything about everyone...i doubt that proof will be much of an issue.Yeah, the others know everything. They will have evidence for our Sawyer to see, if they don't just get Cooper to talk about it in front of him before proof is even needed.

And here comes Sawyer, who if all the speculation is correct would most certainly want to kill Cooper. Will Locke defend him again?

Yeah, and remember, when Sawyer killed the guy named Frank Duckett in Australia whom he was told was the "real Sawyer", only to find out too late that it wasn't? Remember what Duckett said to him with his dying breath?

"It'll come back around..."

And so it has! I'm convinced of it!

When Ben said "Go get the man from Tallahassee", I turned to my wife and said "It's Cooper! Locke's dad is on the Island!" And she said, "No way!" ANd then I said, "Yeah, and not only that, but Cooper is the real Sawyer!"

Woo Hoo!

So does anybody think that Sawyer is the one that "summoned" Mr. Cooper and not Locke? Sawyer is the one who has been searching for this man for the most of his life and wanting revenge, not necessarily Locke.

I have definitely thought that Cooper=real Sawyer since we learned that he was a con-man. Should be interesting to see how the dynamic changes between Locke and Sawyer if they ever figure this out.
Yeah, unless he was referring to "conjuring" him up in the "box".

I don't think they conjured anyone up in a box. I think they brought him to the Island and held him captive. Once they figured out who survived the plane crash and got the back ground info on everyone. This Anthony Cooper has messed up two crash survivors lives and maybe some of the others lives back on the mainland. Look how this group got rid of Juliette's ex husband to bring her into the group. I think bringing Anthony Copper to the Island was a way to have Locke take revenge to bring him into their group.

Finally, there is a way for James to get revenge on the real Sawyer. If only somehow he can make the connection... Maybe Locke will tell Sawyer what he knows of Cooper and something will click, maybe some phrase Sawyer remembers from childhood.

Could we have a big showdown between Locke and Sawyer (James)? For all Cooper has done to him, Locke always seems to protect him. When Peter came to ask Locke about him, he easily could have sold him out but didn't. Didn't sell him out to the police at first. And all this after the man takes his kidneys and causes the loss of his relationship.

And here comes Sawyer, who if all the speculation is correct would most certainly want to kill Cooper. Will Locke defend him again?

No I think Locke has changed. Look how he killed the Russian without hesitation. Locke had covered up for his dad probably as a way to not be affected any more by the pain that he caused him emotionally. I think now after being pushed out an 8 story window Locke will kill Copper. The question is who will kill him first Locke or Sawer

I think definitely Cooper is the real sawyer. :)

I believe Cooper is Sawyer.

But I guess I didn't think when I saw that that that was really Cooper. I thought Ben was talking about a magical room that could apparate what people really wanted. And this didn't seem far-fetched to me because I figured that was what smokey essentially was. So I just thought Locke mostly wanted to see his father in a position where he could do what he wanted with them, and so that is what the room gave him.

They brought Cooper to the island before the hatch exploded??

But who deserves to kill Cooper more? Locke or Sawyer? That's a tougher question. ;)

I can't wait to see that.

I remember way back in season 1 (or early season 2) that everyone that came on screen had people shouting, "he's the real Sawyer!" and many people guessed way back then that Anthony may be the real Sawyer. We definitely know he's used fake names before.

Please, TPTB, please let Sawyer finally get his revenge.

I am positive that Cooper is the real Sawyer.

But who deserves to kill Cooper more? Locke or Sawyer? That's a tougher question. ;)

I think Sawyer needs his revenge more than Locke. Finding and killing the real Sawyer has been his goal since he was very young. He's not going to truly be able to move past it until the real Sawyer is dead.

Although Locke has been seriously deceived and hurt by Cooper, I don't think it was ever his goal to kill him. Locke has been holding on to the hope of a real family which is why he can't bring himself to seek revenge.

If Sawyer kills Cooper, he will accomplish his own goal and also relieve Locke of the weight Cooper holds over him. Unless Locke goes through a big change of character, he won't give up the hope of making things right, as rediculous as it is. It would also be a big change of character if Sawyer were to let go of his need for revenge. Before either of them can get past Cooper (if he is the real Sawyer) he needs to be killed and Sawyer needs to be the one to do it.

Anthony Cooper being on the Island reminds me of when Survivor has a reunion with a loved one as a prize. Well, except for the loved one part.

But the big question is will Locke get immunity for next week's big Lost character "elimination"? :eek:

Omg... it never even occured to me that Cooper could be the real Sawyer! I can't believe I missed that (possible) connection. Makes sense, though.

Which is why I don't think Cooper will die--yet. The scene where he and James come face to face with each other is TOO DELICIOUS for Darlton not to write and film!!

There's certainly an awful lot of talk about revenge and payback and killing on this thread. Isn't redemption one of the main themes of Lost?

Zed is dead. Zed is dead.

I agree, redemption is a big theme on the show. It would be interesting to see Sawyer face Cooper without going through with murder like in "Outlaws" when he faces the boar and lets it go. The show also shows how people "don't change their stripes" though and even after change, the characters return to the roots of their personalities. Whatever happens, it's going to be very interesting to see how Sawyer and Locke handle the situation. (Assuming Cooper is the real Sawyer. I keep forgeting that hasn't actually been revealed :p)

The original sawyer of course not our (very sexual) James Ford. :D

First considered this back in season 2 when Locke's dad mentions he's not the first or last person to be conned. Last night we also saw his conman career made more clear...So as anyone any evidence for or against this?

-We know both are conmen, and appear to be relatively heartless (comes with the territory i know :D)

I don't think there is any hard evidence either way, but just gut feelings. I think making Locke's father the real Sawyer would be kind of silly for one reason, we would all see it coming. It would not be a shock. On the other hand, does everything on the show need to be a shock? Couldn't he be the real sawyer just because it would be good writing and cool because James and Locke would have this connection with a man they both hate.

This is a show with lots of interconnectedness between the characters, whether they are aware of it or not, and it has long been assumed that Cooper is indeed the Sawyer of Ford's childhood. Whether that is correct remains to be confirmed.

After this epi I am convinced that Locke's dad is the real Sawyer.

Yeah...people were talking about Locke's dad being the 'real' Sawyer ever since he was introduced. But I wasn't really buying it then. I thought he was slightly too old...given that he's Locke's father and Locke has two decades on Sawyer. Yes he decieved Locke to get something from him when they first met up...but that's a common theme on this show (Kate, Sawyer, Shannon, Charlie) it didn't really mean much.

But after last night's episode I'm really starting to fall into the camp of believers ;)

It just seemed like TPTB were going so out of their way to draw that connection. They used the word conning, which has always been associated with Sawyer on the show. They had him conning a woman to get her money...which we know is the routine that Sawyer used...and he used the phrase "I've been doing this a long time"...which to me seemed like it was designed as a hint to the audience since we know that the real Sawyer has been at it at least since Sawyer was a young boy.

Either Anthony Cooper and the 'real Sawyer' are one and the same...or TPTB are trying to make it seem like they are to pique people's interests. Because now the parallels are far too strong for them not to have deliberately crafted it that way.

Without being too wordy. I'm on board. Especially since Locke's dad is in the business of infusing himself into his victim's life.

I'm in as well. Not knowing for sure whether board policy demands to put it into spoiler brackets I'll just do it, though everybody might know by now. It concerns the bonus material on the season 2 DVDs.

On the connections-screen, Locke and Sawyer were connected not directly, but both were linked to the one conversation they had where Locke asked Sawyer why he chose that name, and that he thought it was an interesting choice of name.

It has been discussed before, and I simply think by making that connection TPTB made it obvious that there is something in their past connecting Locke and Sawyer. I think it can only be Locke's dad/the original Sawyer. Since I saw that, I've been a believer ;)

I think making Locke's father the real Sawyer would be kind of silly for one reason, we would all see it coming.


I agree that Cooper is the real Sawyer. But I am afraid that from here on out, a whole lot of things are going to start seeming very predictable--at least to the hard core fans who have spent so much time theorizing everything. I think we have passed the midway point of the creator's timeline, so we have basically entered the beginning of the end. Now we will start to see the writers slowly starting to tie up all of the lose ends. So things are going to seem more obvious and predictable then they have ever been before. It's just like the Jack and Claire sibling connection. Most hard core fans have been predicting that since season 2. However, none of my friends who are casual viewers ever saw that one coming.

I defiantly think that Cooper is Sawyer. It's just to perfect. Now James can deliver his letter!

I defiantly think that Cooper is Sawyer. It's just to perfect. Now James can deliver his letter!

I think that poor letter probably got destroyed during the raft debacle...either that or it's REALLY waterlogged and undreadable ;)

BUT the good new is that I'm guessing Sawyer read it enough times to know it off by heart. Why have someone read a letter...when you can recite it to their face....and then punch them ;) :lol2:

It looks like Locke will be the only one to get an audience with pops. I wonder why the Others wont give James a look? Do the Others know about that connection? Hmmm.

I think that poor letter probably got destroyed during the raft debacle...either that or it's REALLY waterlogged and undreadable ;)

BUT the good new is that I'm guessing Sawyer read it enough times to know it off by heart. Why have someone read a letter...when you can recite it to their face....and then punch them ;) :lol2:

Too funny! But at the same time I'd give my eye teeth to see that one happen.

I wasn't a beliver at first, but am now starting to think those theorizers were right all along. I will have to go back and rewatch the bonus material from Season 2 again.

I agree that Cooper is the real Sawyer. But I am afraid that from here on out, a whole lot of things are going to start seeming very predictable--at least to the hard core fans who have spent so much time theorizing everything. I think we have passed the midway point of the creator's timeline, so we have basically entered the beginning of the end. Now we will start to see the writers slowly starting to tie up all of the lose ends. So things are going to seem more obvious and predictable then they have ever been before. It's just like the Jack and Claire sibling connection. Most hard core fans have been predicting that since season 2. However, none of my friends who are casual viewers ever saw that one coming.


I agree, the hard core fans saw these things because we paid attention.I personally theorized that Locke's Dad was the original Sawyer back during the kidney episode. It just seemed so obvious that he was a "con man".

I also guessed that Claire was Jack's sister on the flashback on Ana Lucia's where Jack's dad demanded to see his "daughter" and since Claire was the only Australian character on the show, it was pretty obvious it had to be her.

Since Locke's dad is "the man from Tallahassee" I seriously seem to recall Sawyer mentioning a "man from Tallahassee" back in season 1 or 2. Could this be the proof??

Sawyer made mention of his spending time in Tallahassee. I am guessing that he went there looking for Cooper (the real Sawyer). However, Kate was on the way to Tallahassee herself, when she was first arrested by the Marshal. l wonder how she is going to play into all of this. You know that she has to tie into it somehow. No one buys a ticket to Tallahassee for no reason. I wonder if she knows Cooper too?

I found this on Lostpedia today:

Anthony Cooper, Adam Seward" is anagram for "Sawyer, the con man, a poor dad".

These being the names he was using at that time.....

I think that pretty much confirms it!

I found this on Lostpedia today:

Anthony Cooper, Adam Seward" is anagram for "Sawyer, the con man, a poor dad".

These being the names he was using at that time.....

I think that pretty much confirms it!
:eek2:

I don't think there is any hard evidence either way, but just gut feelings. I think making Locke's father the real Sawyer would be kind of silly for one reason, we would all see it coming. It would not be a shock. On the other hand, does everything on the show need to be a shock? Couldn't he be the real sawyer just because it would be good writing and cool because James and Locke would have this connection with a man they both hate.

ok..i agree that its a bit predictable. however...kevin tighe is a fabulous actor. and i love all episodes with him. it would be absolutely fabulous to see a showdown between him and james.

on a side note...i think my dream would come true and i could die a happy death if there was ever just one scene with kevin tighe, michael emerson, and john terry. yes..that would be such a happy happy day for me. i can dream right?

I think it's interesting that Cooper and Sawyer are somewhat related names. A cooper makes barrels. A sawyer saws treess into boards.

I've thought for a long time that Locke's supposed father was the real Sawyer.

1. I have always beleived that the "real Sawyer" is the same man who took Locke's kidney.

2. I think Sawyer (James) and Locke are half brothers.

3. I think that Locke knew something of this situation, from way back when Locke referred to Sawyer as "James" the first time. There was something almost intimate about the way he called him "James". I don't understand it, but knew it when I heard it.

4. I can't wait until Sawyer (James) sees the real Sawyer, and tears himself off a piece. I've been waiting for that reunion since Sawyer first read that letter to the man who ruined his life. The only other reunion I may want to see nearly as much is when Des gets a crack at Whitmore.....

2. I think Sawyer (James) and Locke are half brothers

I don't think they are half brothers. Even if Cooper is the real Sawyer that doesn't make him James' father. The real Sawyer conned James' parents and caused his mother and father to die. Unless those two weren't James' real parents, Sawyer and Locke couldn't be half brothers. Plus I'm not sure the writers would pull that trick twice.

So could this have anything to do with Sawyer's line in Season 2...?

"You may have been to Phuket, Doc, but I've been to Talahassee... let's just say something was burning and it wasn't from the sunshine."

Yes: in fact, I was expecting "the man from Tallahassee" to be Sawyer.
It may still be: perhaps Sawyer went after Kate and got caught. For that matter, is there any known connection between Cooper and Tallahassee?

Apologies if this has already been mentioned, but I found on Lostpedia that an anagram for "Anthony Cooper, Adam Seward" is "Sawyer, the con man, a poor dad". Awesome...

Could the con be? That Locke is Ben's father...???

Locke and Ben are virtually the same age, at least the actors are.

Cardie

I'm glad this topic came up again. I believed it for a while last season, then dismissed it... but this episode makes it seem much more likely. I hated Anthony Cooper all along, but I didn't think he was the murdering type until last night. What an evil old man! :hide:

It's also hard to dismiss the fact that Sawyer sounds like a combination of Seward and Cooper.

I was a little disappointed by how obvious the Claire-Jack connection was before they confirmed it, but it's a sign that things are starting to come together (as other things get weirder... oh, Lost). I hope this one's right too. :)

I'm glad this topic came up again. I believed it for a while last season, then dismissed it... but this episode makes it seem much more likely. A con man who has no trouble killing his lover and her husband, and attempts to kill his own son... yikes. I hated Anthony Cooper all along, but I didn't think he was the murdering type until last night.What an evil old man!



Cooper/Seward killed his fiancee's son, Peter Talbot, but he didn't kill her (that we know of.) James Ford's father killed his wife and then himself after he found out that she had an affair with the "real" Sawyer/Cooper/Seward and helped in getting them swindled.

Cardie

i wonder if the box could conjure up christian? we could have a big ole island family reunion.

Erm, Christian is dead. Maybe 'The Box' (if it is a literal object on the island and not just Ben's metaphor for the Island, which seems to be more likely) could conjure up his corpse from wherever the Monster took it after it animated him, but it seems unlikely it could bring him back to life (due to the constant "Death is permanant," statement from the producers).

I am slightly surprised that there is any doubt that the Real Sawyer is Cooper. The producers said he was on the podcast for Lockdown. They even said they put it in the episode (presumably Cooper tells Locke about the con on Sawyer's parents) but then edited out as they thought that was going too far and the audience could work it out for themselves. Edited scenes are non-canonical (such as the Danielle/Claire conversation from the Season 1 finale that they removed and re-wrote to appear in Maternity Leave), but in this case I think that scene did happen and we just didn't see it.

So Cooper = Real Sawyer. Officially. And we've known that for ages. Of course, how it plays out on the Island is tricky, but since Locke already knows about Sawyer (his comments about Sawyer's real name confirm that) he could just tell him.

Cooper/Seward killed his fiancee's son, Peter Talbot, but he didn't kill her (that we know of.) James Ford's father killed his wife and then himself after he found out that she had an affair with the "real" Sawyer/Cooper/Seward and helped in getting them swindled.

Cardie

Ah yeah, whoops. I was referring to Sawyer's parents, but mixed it up a bit. This is what I get from being away from the forums for so long. ;)
100%
Could the con be? That Locke is Ben's father...???

I thought that briefly too, but they've got to be too close in age... but I agree that his question about what it felt like when his own father tried to kill him suggested something. Maybe Ben's got daddy issues too.

I think it's possible that Cooper is Ben's real father. Ben got the great conning/manipulating genes, while John got the wacky mysticism and borderline insanity from his mother.

Cardie

I just checked this on Wiki: Terry O'Quinn (Locke) is only two months older than Michael Emerson (they are both 54). However, the character of Locke is older (58) and some have speculated that, thanks to Emerson looking a fair bit younger than his age, Ben could be in his forties. However, I don't lend credence to this theory. It requires too much fiddling around with ages (shades of Sean Connery playing Harrison Ford's dad when there's only eleven years between them).

I absolutely believe that Cooper is the real Sawyer. It was made kind of clear last night. I just wonder how Sawyer will find out that it's the same man, even if they run into each other somehow (maybe Locke will take him back to camp? Unlikely, considering that he hates him, but that's kind of the only way they'll meet).I 100% believe Cooper is Sawyer. I believe that was made clear during Lockdown. I am PSYCHED at the possibility of James getting to meet him. I wonder who hates him more, James or Locke?


Good question! I really don't know. Cooper (assuming he's the real Sawyer) essentially killed both of Sawyer's parents, but he also stole Locke's kidney after gaining his trust, and then proceeded to throw him out the window of an 8+ story building. It's kind of even.

I don't think they are half brothers. Even if Cooper is the real Sawyer that doesn't make him James' father. The real Sawyer conned James' parents and caused his mother and father to die. Unless those two weren't James' real parents, Sawyer and Locke couldn't be half brothers. Plus I'm not sure the writers would pull that trick twice.


I agree. We just got confirmation that Jack and Claire are half-siblings; would they really do that again?

I wouldn't be surprised at all if Cooper is really "Sawyer." It would be a pretty big stretch for there to be 2 con-men playing pivotal roles in the series. And we know that he is definitely evil enough to ruin 2 lives.

when the detectives were talking to Locke in the recovery room, they said that Cooper "might be anywhere in the world". I immediately imagined him being on the island, snickered and kind of pushed the idea away.

But wow, who would have thunk it, eh

Ditto. I turned to my hubby and said "Locke's dad is on the island!" He replied 'How do you know he's his real dad?" I volleyed with 'You are not worthy of hatch conversation.' Then I heard "You need help".:hypocrit:

I would be surprised if they didn't make Cooper the "real" Sawyer. There have been too many connections made and it seems fairly obvious. Another predictable feeling storyline I'm afraid.

I am slightly surprised that there is any doubt that the Real Sawyer is Cooper. The producers said he was on the podcast for Lockdown. They even said they put it in the episode (presumably Cooper tells Locke about the con on Sawyer's parents) but then edited out as they thought that was going too far and the audience could work it out for themselves. Edited scenes are non-canonical (such as the Danielle/Claire conversation from the Season 1 finale that they removed and re-wrote to appear in Maternity Leave), but in this case I think that scene did happen and we just didn't see it.

So Cooper = Real Sawyer. Officially. And we've known that for ages. Of course, how it plays out on the Island is tricky, but since Locke already knows about Sawyer (his comments about Sawyer's real name confirm that) he could just tell him.

Really? I didn't know they actually confirmed it. I'm going to go off to try to find quotes from that podcast.

i wonder if the box could conjure up christian? we could have a big ole island family reunion.

so maybe sawyer will send out a search party to find kate...and that's how he'll come across cooper.


i agree, he's been much to anxious lately.
100%
I agree with the idea that "Cooper" could be the real Sawyer. If Claire and Jack can have the same dad, then why couldn't this connection be true?


or what if the "real sawyer", (cooper) WAS "james'" father, and him and locke were brothers???
:biggrin:
100%
Ditto. I turned to my hubby and said "Locke's dad is on the island!" He replied 'How do you know he's his real dad?" I volleyed with 'You are not worthy of hatch conversation.' Then I heard "You need help".:hypocrit:

HA HA, Lmao. funny. i get that too...:biggrin:

TPTB certainly want us to think Cooper is the real Sawyer (how many times can you say "con" in one episode?! :) )

Can we assume that Ben is also aware of the connection? Because that would be interesting. I don't think Ben could resist messing with James' head as well as Locke's. At this stage, apart from Kate, I think "the real Sawyer" would be the best tool the Others could use to successfully manipulate James.


Doesn't James/Sawyer have another flashback this season? I wonder if our Mr. Cooper will be involved?:)

Well, I listened to the 2 official podcasts about Lockdown and didn't notice Damon and Carlton say anything about Cooper being the real Sawyer. Did I miss them say something? I didn't think they had confirmed it.

Well, I listened to the 2 official podcasts about Lockdown and didn't notice Damon and Carlton say anything about Cooper being the real Sawyer. Did I miss them say something? I didn't think they had confirmed it.

i didnt know they actually confirmed it. as it stands..for casual watchers it hasnt been confirmed bc it hasnt been in any episodes. however..they never officially confirmed the jack/claire sibling connection. but the link was easy to make.

I believe Cooper is the real Sawyer, along with many of the posters here. It's easy to make the connection and we all want to be right, since a lot of us have already thought this since Lockdown (I think this is the episode).

From "The Hunting Party":

LOCKE: Why'd you pick "Sawyer?"

SAWYER: What do you mean, pick?

LOCKE: After the census Hurley gave me the flight manifest. Your name is James, right? James Ford.

SAWYER: What's it to you?

LOCKE: Just an interesting name to choose, is all. Who'd you get it from? I think I know how fake Sawyer is going to find out about the real Sawyer...
100%
I can't wait until Sawyer (James) sees the real Sawyer, and tears himself off a piece. I've been waiting for that reunion since Sawyer first read that letter to the man who ruined his life. So will you be disappointed when Sawyer finds "redemption" and decides not to exact revenge? You just know that's the way it's going to play out.

I had always wondered how they were going to get the two Sawyers on the show together. To have such a compelling revenge story with no final showdown just seemed awfully unlikely...

So will you be disappointed when Sawyer finds "redemption" and decides not to exact revenge? You just know that's the way it's going to play out.

I had always wondered how they were going to get the two Sawyers on the show together. To have such a compelling revenge story with no final showdown just seemed awfully unlikely...

I agree, I would be very disappointed if Sawyer doesn't find the man he's hunting. I think it would be a very powerful scene and I like the thought that he might find a way to let the real Sawyer go. This would mean that he could forgive the evil in himself and move on. I look forward to that episode if it comes :)

but most ppl who find redemption on this show die. case in point: boone, shannon, ana lucia, eko. so i hope sawyer find revenge not redemption. let him live a little longer. lol.

Eko came to terms with his past, but he didn't find redemption, because he didn't repent.

Masybe Cooper will escape and in a panic fall off a cliff--poetic justice and no one has to kill any more people!

Cardie

I have to admit that I've been surprised by the number of friends I've spoken to who question whether Cooper is, in fact, the "real" Sawyer. Here's why:

The audience was only given one scene over the course of the show that led us to believe that Christian was Claire's father, yet I've seen disappointment expressed from some because the connection was "obvious." I could understand that connection not being on the radar screen for three reasons: if people missed that episode, if people forgot about it because it was in an episode from a long time ago, or if the scene was so fleeting it didn't register because there is so much going on in Lost.

In the Sawyer/Cooper situation, though, the audience has boatloads of foreshadowing: the fatal moment that caused James Ford to later become a conman; the letter James wrote to the conman; and the fact that James is so consumed by this event that he travelled to Australia to kill him *in conjunction with* Locke's father also being a conman and causing Locke to lose his girlfriend, his kidney, and finally, his ability to walk.

Since we have already been shown that Christian is indeed Claire's father and it was only indicated in one scene a long time ago, I can't imagine that all the Sawyer/Locke/Cooper similarities we've been shown over 2.5 seasons don't lead to this connection. It's too extensive to wind up being just a coincidence or red herring.

As an aside, it's also entirely possible that Cooper is on the island because of the combined power of Locke and Sawyer's emotional connection to Cooper, and not exclusively because of Locke.

I look at this as a kind of catch-22 for the writers. If a connection is finally revealed, the audience will say "of course I saw it coming" and express disappointment; if no connection is ever revealed, the audience will say "why did they spend so much time trying to make us believe their was a connection if there wasn't?"

I look at this as a kind of catch-22 for the writers. If a connection is finally revealed, the audience will say "of course I saw it coming" and express disappointment; if no connection is ever revealed, the audience will say "why did they spend so much time trying to make us believe their was a connection if there wasn't?"

i agree. i think the one way that the writers can remedy this is if they spend time and write an absolutely amazing episode that leads up to sawyer discovering anthony cooper is the real sawyer and also discovering he's on the island. and we're talking it has to be anaamazing episode that will leave everyon going "oh my gosh!" even if they did see it coming.

think they can pull it off? :biggrin:

I think the value of pure shock is exaggerated. Planting clues that actually lead you to the right conclusion is a good story-telling technique, whereas pulling a shocking surprise out of the hat with no warning is just cheap thrill-mongering.

One reason a movie like The Sixth Sense works is that there are plenty of clues there all the time; it's just misdirection that can fool an audience.

Cardie

Misdirection is certainly the key. Obviously, most of us rabid Lostphiles pick up on these little clues and fit the peices together before the casual watcher might, but isn't that what makes this show so great?

My one claim to fame as far as Lost-predicting goes was that I called the fact that "Helen" was a real love interest in Locke's life, not just a phonesex operator. This was based on the subtle clue they laid out, when Locke gets knocked down and dazed, and the first thing on his mind is, "I'm ok, Helen... I'm ok." This sort of subconcious slip-up wouldn't have made sense if he had never actually met her and spent time with her, he wouldn't have that ingrained sense of "Well, I don't know what's going on but I know Helen is here for me.." Then, a whole season later, bingo bango we meet Helen.

Was that reveal "spoiled" for me? Nope. If anything, the fact that I had worked it out myself made it all the better. It's these little clues that might not even make sense at first that really make this show tick. All the people that say "It takes too long" for them to add another peice to a certain puzzle make me feel a bit sorry for them. I'm in this thing for the long haul, and when these little clues all come together to a big reveal like this past week, it's one of the most satisfying things for me as a diehard Lost fan, and even more proof that the writers are on track. Gives me faith that the ending will be just as good, if not better, than the beginning.

Which is one of the reasons Cooper being on the Island really wowed me. I've always said, "Well, Cooper SHOULD be the 'Real Sawyer', but even if he was, he'd have to be ON the Island for anything to ever come out of it. Even if Sawyer learned Locke's dad was his 'Sawyer', what would they do? Talk about it? Share hate stories?"

Now that he's on the Island, I'm SOOO looking forward to a big heaping helping of cosmic karmic retribution. Oh, and the whole "Anthony Cooper, Adam Seward" = "Sawyer, a conman, a poor dad" is just the icing on the cake.

I am convinced now that Cooper is the real Sawyer, and that it will come down to John and/or James Ford choosing whether or not to seek revenge on him. I frankly don't think that Locke has it in him to kill his father (and if he's not his father, why does he say "Dad?" at the end of TMFT), but then again I didn't think he'd have killed Mikhail like that either. Still, I think if it came down to James or Locke exacting an ultimate type revenge on Cooper/Original Sawyer, I think it would be James that did the killing. Another island test. Locke is just to needy daddy-wise, I don't even think he would beat the man. But we shall see.

Maybe this will give them a chance to give some nuance to Anthony Cooper because he is by far my least favorite Bad Daddy. He's just too one-note for my taste and I've always found him boring and repetitive. If they move away from the cartoonish villain, I'm all for it.

I'm convinced he's the real Sawyer and in a way I'm glad the connections are starting to be major plot points. It opens up some interesting possibilites for both Locke and Sawyer. However, to quote a friend... I'll just have to suspend disbelief about him being a suave conman the ladies couldn't resist. Neither his personality, nor his looks would recommend him for the part.

It'll be interesting to see if Cooper gets a flashback. Even if it's just a "How He Got To the Island" type thing (my money's on that balloon!). It would be nice if they made him more sympathetic before a final confrontation.

I was under the strong assumption that the "box" was metaphorical. Not literal.

However, to quote a friend... I'll just have to suspend disbelief about him being a suave conman the ladies couldn't resist. Neither his personality, nor his looks would recommend him for the part.

That's quite funny! :biggrin: And I totally agree with you on this!

That's quite funny! :biggrin: And I totally agree with you on this!

u dont find anthony cooper hot to trot? :cool:

u dont find anthony cooper hot to trot? :cool:

Ick! :eek2:

No thank you! Although he must've been something back in the day, if Sawyer's mom thought he was good enough!:rolleyes:

That's quite funny! :biggrin: And I totally agree with you on this!

Thank you.

I mean... come on! No disrespect here, but we know what Kevin Tighe looked like in the 70s and there are certain actors who are not believable in certain parts. :lol2: Oh, well. I managed to suspend disbelief about Swoosie Kurtz as Locke's mother so I guess we'll get through this as well. :biggrin:

but most ppl who find redemption on this show die. case in point: boone, shannon, ana lucia, eko. so i hope sawyer find revenge not redemption. let him live a little longer. lol.

Agreed. Once Sawyer faces the chance to get his revenge and makes a decision, a lot of the depth of his character will be gone. His battle against himself will be totally changed and his character may become expendable. If the confrontation does happen I don't think it should be a for a long time. I would be disappointed if it didn't but I would like to see it near the end of the series to keep Sawyer's character as interesting as possible for as long as possible.

I agree, Alex kept talking about how her father manipulates people. My thought was, Ben gets you in the box, finds out what you want, then MAKES it happen (like kidnapping lockes dad) then of course you believe in the "Magical Box" and never want to leave the island, but of couse you would be under the illusion you could leave anytime you wanted via submarine. Ben would make you think it was YOUR idea to stay. Sounds like a con to me.

All this speculation about the powers of "the box" doesn't explain how TMFT was summoned by Ben (whilst Locke was with Alex in the cupboard) some time before "the box" was even touched upon. Hence TMFT is not involved in creating Cooper from Locke's mind,right? Cooper has objective reality.