Way back when, Ben (aka Henry Gale, then), told Locke he was coming to find him. We had a lot of theories back then, about Ben scamming Locke to get the numbers, etc.

We have also wondered why Ben would go on such a trek, put himself in what would clearly be a dangerous situation, when he had a tumor.

Now we know why. Ben was trying to get himself healed, by learning from Locke the secret that reversed his paralysis. Ben WAS coming for Locke all along. Maybe he didn't even know there was a spinal surgeon available until Jack took the arrow out of his shoulder.

So if that is correct, and it sounds logical to me, then Ben didn't bring Anthony Cooper to the island until . . . um. . . when? After he got back? Or maybe he already had him in place "in the box" before he set out to find Locke. Then he would have some leverage with John if he needed it.

Interesting. Ben must have brought him there soon after they crashed then. I wonder how he tracked him down? Even the cops couldn't find him.

Yes it does seem to fit together very well, excellent! That makes me happy :)

Interesting. Ben must have brought him there soon after they crashed then. I wonder how he tracked him down? Even the cops couldn't find him.

That's true, perhaps another indication of how powerful the Mittelos corporation is.

Hmm, I don't know. For that, you'd have to believe Cooper was actually a prisoner of Ben's, and that wasn't a con.

Cooper could have been there for ages, knowing full well that Locke should have been paralyzed when he was walking around.

Right, well that is all a very good option. Some points I hadn't even thought of to explain how Cooper could be a captive of Ben's and not just conning Locke again.

OR..... Ben doesn't even want to be healed. The surgery was all to serve some other purpose we don't understand yet. I personally think that at the end of this episode, Ben was hinting that it was bad for Locke that Locke can now walk and that it is good for Ben for some reason that he in a wheelchair. Just as Locke thought it would be good to get stay on the island because he can walk and is away from Cooper. He is now on the island with Cooper. I think there is much more to what's going on with Ben than meets the eye, so it's tough for me to assume that Ben didn't know that Jack wasn't a spinal surgeon until he was stuck in the hatch. Just doesn't quite add up for me.
Although it's a great theory and makes sense.

I do believe that Ben was indeed coming for Locke though. I just still think that he knew that Jack would be on the plane and that all of those people were on the plane for a reason. It crashed instead of landing like it was supposed to.

I just still think that he knew that Jack would be on the plane and that all of those people were on the plane for a reason. It crashed instead of landing like it was supposed to.
Right. I forgot that I think that too. :biggrin: You could scratch the part about Jack in my original post and have it still work for Ben to be reaching out to Locke, so he could find out his secret.

Yes, I agree. heh.

I'm not sure. I think that it is possible that Ben was letting Locke believe what he wanted to in order to con him. It let Locke feel like he was powerful, and more in control.

It is even possible that Ben actually HAS healed, but stayed in the wheelchair to let Locke feel important.

It is even possible that Ben actually HAS healed, but stayed in the wheelchair to let Locke feel important.

Oh sneaky sneaky Ben , that is possible actually, though Ben would also have to fool Jack into believing he can't walk.

He came to assimilate Locke and to check out Jack.

Uh oh, I just thought of something to confuse my theory. In The Hunting Party, Tom et al sent Locke (among the others) back to the beach and told them never to cross the line. At that time, the Others wanted Walt (and secondarily, Michael).

Just a few days later, Ben comes looking for Locke in One of Them. So, why DIDN'T Tom take Locke in THP? Was this the first time the Others realized that Locke was now walking? Did Tom report back to Ben on this?

Or was Ben really acting in a totally renagade manner, without informing his followers?

Way back when, Ben (aka Henry Gale, then), told Locke he was coming to find him. We had a lot of theories back then, about Ben scamming Locke to get the numbers, etc.

We have also wondered why Ben would go on such a trek, put himself in what would clearly be a dangerous situation, when he had a tumor.

Now we know why. Ben was trying to get himself healed, by learning from Locke the secret that reversed his paralysis. Ben WAS coming for Locke all along. Maybe he didn't even know there was a spinal surgeon available until Jack took the arrow out of his shoulder.

I think that you are correct.

Uh oh, I just thought of something to confuse my theory. In The Hunting Party, Tom et al sent Locke (among the others) back to the beach and told them never to cross the line. At that time, the Others wanted Walt (and secondarily, Michael).

Just a few days later, Ben comes looking for Locke in One of Them. So, why DIDN'T Tom take Locke in THP? Was this the first time the Others realized that Locke was now walking? Did Tom report back to Ben on this?


I think that he heard from Tom that Locke went to the spot also and he was surprised because Locke was supposed to be in a wheelchair. So, he went to investigate.

I bet this is why he wanted Walt 9and the other children also) I bet children can control "the box" better than adults can, and Locke (as Benry found out) is the one adult who can control it the best.

Darn, the Hunting Party always makes things so messy! If it's true that Ben just found out that Locke was in a wheelchair in that epi, then the others had no surveillance on the Losties beach and Ethan, who hunted with Locke quite often, failed to communicate that Locke could walk. Also,
it would imply that the others had no contact with smokey since smokey knew Locke could walk as well.

Darn, the Hunting Party always makes things so messy! If it's true that Ben just found out that Locke was in a wheelchair in that epi, then the others had no surveillance on the Losties beach and Ethan, who hunted with Locke quite often, failed to communicate that Locke could walk. Also,
it would imply that the others had no contact with smokey since smokey knew Locke could walk as well.

I don't think they had surveillance other than their "spies". So, Ethan could make a list and then hand it in, but then would Benry ever have a reason to tell Ethan that Locke is in a wheelchair? Or vice versa?

And you're right about Smokey... so I wonder who controls that? Or if anyone does.

would Benry ever have a reason to tell Ethan that Locke is in a wheelchair? Or vice versa?

That's a good question, we know Ben knew and Mikhaul knew. I would guess that Ben would try to Ethan since he was their doctor and surgeon and Ethan may have been able to ascertain how Locke started walking. But maybe Ethan wasn't privy to Ben's inner thoughts.

Yes Yes Yes...what an awesome thread!!!!


This thread gets my total vote!!!!

How awesome is that connection!!!!

That's a good question, we know Ben knew and Mikhaul knew. I would guess that Ben would try to Ethan since he was their doctor and surgeon and Ethan may have been able to ascertain how Locke started walking. But maybe Ethan wasn't privy to Ben's inner thoughts.

What I mean though, is Ethan makes his list... Ben researches the list and finds out a lot about the Losties including that Locke is in a wheelchair. So, at that point Ben knows that Locke should be in a chair and Ethan just sees him walking around.

Would Ben ever have a reason to ask him about Locke's wheelchair? How would the two of them find out "Hey, wait a second... you went hunting with this guy? How'd that work with the wheelchair?" I don't think Ethan saw much of Ben, so it probably just didn't get brought up and it was a surprise when Tom saw Locke in The Hunting Party.

Yes Yes Yes...what an awesome thread!!!!


This thread gets my total vote!!!!

How awesome is that connection!!!!
:lol: Funny. :)

I don't think the Ethan thing was a problem. I guess he didn't communicate much when he was on the beach. Or maybe he was prone to ignore his orders. We know he fixated on Claire, which he wasn't supposed to do.

Of course, Ben was supposedly there during the almost-caesarian in the medical station. Wouldn't he have had time to question Ethan about the other survivors?

I'm still hoping to learn more about Ethan's time, especially around the hanging of Charlie and his interactions with his base camp.

Okay so Ben knew all about how John was paralyzed and even how it happened. Coincidence that Cooper just happens to be bound and gagged in the box? OR....Did Cooper fill Ben in on everything about John Locke? Is Cooper a financier for the others? He was a major con man and like Juliet's ex-husband being hit by a bus, could the others also have killed the son of the 200 million dollar woman that Cooper was conning?

Cooper just vanished into thin air, or did he just return to the island?

I think Cooper isn't quite the prisoner he is portrayed to be.

This is a very long con in action IMO.

I don't mean to rain on your parade, but originally the character "Henry Gale" was supposed to be in only 3 episodes. Only after TPTB realized how awesome Emerson is did they decide to make him the leader of the Others.

Of course this doesn't mean that TPTB aren't trying to go back and cover their tracks, making up some story explaining Ben's capture. And, the original generic-Other Henry Gale presumably did have a reason for going to the beach as well.

We just keep to keep the above in mind when discussing S2 Henry Gale.

I don't mean to rain on your parade, but originally the character "Henry Gale" was supposed to be in only 3 episodes. Only after TPTB realized how awesome Emerson is did they decide to make him the leader of the Others.

Of course this doesn't mean that TPTB aren't trying to go back and cover their tracks, making up some story explaining Ben's capture. And, the original generic-Other Henry Gale presumably did have a reason for going to the beach as well.



That's a very good point. If JennyLee's theory is correct then maybe Fenry was sent by the leader to go bring Locke back, but then TPTB saw how good Emerson was and made him the leader instead.

Right, but regardless of what they originally intended, the story is what it is now. I mean, Jack didn't die in the Pilot. Jack and Ana never had a romantic relationship. Libby was killed instead of getting her planned FB. Plans change.

Anyway, THP always confuses stuff, as Pen said. But we have seen evidence that Tom is actually a pretty good guy. Maybe he was supposed to get Locke then but didn't? It's so hard to say with him and his recent behavior, versus what we knew of him before (kidnapping Walt, etc.)....

Way back when, Ben (aka Henry Gale, then), told Locke he was coming to find him. We had a lot of theories back then, about Ben scamming Locke to get the numbers, etc. We have also wondered why Ben would go on such a trek, put himself in what would clearly be a dangerous situation, when he had a tumor. Now we know why. Ben was trying to get himself healed, by learning from Locke the secret that reversed his paralysis. Ben WAS coming for Locke all along. Maybe he didn't even know there was a spinal surgeon available until Jack took the arrow out of his shoulder.

:clapping: Just want to add that this along with the replies to this have made things actually click for me! I've had issues with Benry from the start - I couldn't find a way to believe that he was a leader or figure out why he was the one sent... this would pretty much fill in most of those questions for me and then some.. so regardless of what the story turns out to be.. I think I'm sticking to this line of thought..
awesome..

I don't think Ben not walking is part of a con. If Ben was truly healed by the island and benefitted from it's healing affects he would've never had that tumor.

I think the island doesn't like what the others are doing and that's why it doesn't heal Ben.
100%
I tend to think that Jacob was holding the others back and giving them different orders. They knew about Locke but Jacob was directing them to not act. But when Ben's life became more in danger, he (Ben) took matters into his own hands. Maybe that is why he went himself. Because his people wouldn't disobey Jacob but Ben (being favored by Jacob) figured he could get away with it. Then he wanted to make contact with Locke and in the process learned about Jack.

Hmmm.... has everyone forgotten the mystery of the island, and the 4 toed statue, smokie, and dead people and black horses walking around communicating with everyone? Is it possible that Ben's description of 'a box that anything you imagined inside would be there' is a simplistic description of the power on the island and maybe he was implying or maybe we'll find out that Locke "willed" Cooper to be there and he "showed up" - because Locke "has such a connection with the island"... and maybe Locke willed him there because he needs to reconcile or finish something with him. Just some thoughts...

Hmmm.... has everyone forgotten the mystery of the island, and the 4 toed statue, smokie, and dead people and black horses walking around communicating with everyone? Is it possible that Ben's description of 'a box that anything you imagined inside would be there' is a simplistic description of the power on the island and maybe he was implying or maybe we'll find out that Locke "willed" Cooper to be there and he "showed up" - because Locke "has such a connection with the island"... and maybe Locke willed him there because he needs to reconcile or finish something with him. Just some thoughts...
I like this approach. I've stated on a different thread that maybe Cooper's whole purpose on the island is his memory of Locke, which is being exploited to recreate Locke before the fall by the magic box, for the single purpose to fully isolate the island (which he has done). Locke is, after all, unique; he is island bonded. Did not Locke at one point nearly become paralyzed again on the island? Was this not manipulation, just as was the hatch gate coming down onto his legs? Maybe Locke's death will be staged to hide the fact that he is a manifestation.

I just feel strongly that we'll find out that Cooper has been on the island for quite a while, and he somehow found out Locke was there, and was walking, and he told Ben, and this whole thing is a setup.
Wasn't there a white haired mystery person in the medical hatch when Claire was there? Someone, please refresh me. Could this have been Cooper?

What I mean though, is Ethan makes his list... Ben researches the list and finds out a lot about the Losties including that Locke is in a wheelchair. So, at that point Ben knows that Locke should be in a chair and Ethan just sees him walking around.

Would Ben ever have a reason to ask him about Locke's wheelchair? How would the two of them find out "Hey, wait a second... you went hunting with this guy? How'd that work with the wheelchair?" I don't think Ethan saw much of Ben, so it probably just didn't get brought up and it was a surprise when Tom saw Locke in The Hunting Party.

Oh I see what you mean, this is possible.

That's a very good point. If JennyLee's theory is correct then maybe Fenry was sent by the leader to go bring Locke back, but then TPTB saw how good Emerson was and made him the leader instead.

Yes I think this is what transpired as well, it was basically the same storyline, but they were originally going to cast someone else as Ben and Micheal Emerson was just going to play a messenger boy.


Anyway, THP always confuses stuff, as Pen said. But we have seen evidence that Tom is actually a pretty good guy. Maybe he was supposed to get Locke then but didn't? It's so hard to say with him and his recent behavior, versus what we knew of him before (kidnapping Walt, etc.)....


Yeah, I wonder if they can put the events of the THP in context by using an island FB or something.

Wasn't there a white haired mystery person in the medical hatch when Claire was there? Someone, please refresh me. Could this have been Cooper?

Unless you mean someone else whom I don't remember, that was Tom, the first time we saw him without the beard.

Yes I think this is what transpired as well, it was basically the same storyline, but they were originally going to cast someone else as Ben and Micheal Emerson was just going to play a messenger boy.
Agree. They have said that the always knew there would be a leader of the Others that required spinal surgery - they just didn't know that person would be Ben/Henry. They fused those two characters together when Michael worked out so well.

Back to THP for a second - I'm thinking now that Tom really couldn't have known about Locke's situation, or else he would have tried to grab Locke for Ben. Tom is clearly loyal to Ben.

As for the Cooper question, I think it could come down to 2 versions:
1. Tom reported to Ben, who already knew Locke was paralyzed, that Locke could walk. Ben went about getting Cooper kidnapped, so that he would have leverage over Locke.
2. Tom reported to Ben, and since Cooper was already on the island (due to being a player behind Dharma, etc.), Cooper was the one with the info that Locke was paralyzed.

This all hinges on not believing there is a real Box, but that it is metaphorical.

So, here's another question. What about Klugh's list from 3 Minutes and LTDA. Locke wasn't on it. But Ben didn't actually approve of Klugh's methods of rescuing him. So maybe Klugh didn't know how important Locke was to Ben?

What about Klugh's list from 3 Minutes and LTDA. Locke wasn't on it. But Ben didn't actually approve of Klugh's methods of rescuing him. So maybe Klugh didn't know how important Locke was to Ben?That's interesting... That also means the Others knew Jack was a spinal surgeon before Ben was captured, as the "Capture Jack" plan was put into effect before Ben was rescued.

This is really a very interesting thread! One thing I want to throw into the mix- maybe Walt told Ben about all his fellow survivors. Of course we have no evidence that Walt knew Locke's background but we do know that he possesses a variety of unknown large mental powers. Maybe he was able to see Locke's past and that's why he befriended him. I can imagine Walt feeling empathy for Locke. If Walt did in fact possess this ability, it would explain how a lot of the losties info is in the Others' hands now. If Walt is in fact their source it would explain why they didn't know about the sailboat, or much about the swan hatch. Walt wasn't around for the uncovering of that stuff.

Of course we have no evidence that Walt knew Locke's background but we do know that he possesses a variety of unknown large mental powers.
Great thought! Walt actually DID know about Locke's paralysis!!

From the pilot, part 2 (courtesy losthatch.com):

Walt: Cool.
Locke: 2 players. 2 sides. One is light, One is dark. Walt, do you want to know a secret?

Then, Tabula Rasa:

Michael: Then what's the secret?
Walt: Mr. Locke said a miracle happened to him.
Michael: Yeah, well, a miracle happened to all of us, Walt. We survived a plane crash. Look, I don't want you hanging around with him anymore.

oooh thanks, jennylee! wow, i knew more subconsciously than I had imagined. :)

Way back when, Ben (aka Henry Gale, then), told Locke he was coming to find him. We had a lot of theories back then, about Ben scamming Locke to get the numbers, etc.

We have also wondered why Ben would go on such a trek, put himself in what would clearly be a dangerous situation, when he had a tumor.

Now we know why. Ben was trying to get himself healed, by learning from Locke the secret that reversed his paralysis. Ben WAS coming for Locke all along. Maybe he didn't even know there was a spinal surgeon available until Jack took the arrow out of his shoulder.


I'm starting to think the reason Ben was captured (or let himself be captured) was to destroy the hatch. I think he was manipulating Locke by telling him that he was coming for him. The reason? To gain his trust so that he could mess with him and make Locke not enter the numbers and thus destroy the hatch. When Locke was trapped and Ben went to enter the numbers, he told Locke that he didn't make it in time, never entered the numbers, and nothing happened… we now know that was a lie.

I don't think he wanted Locke at all at that point because they could have captured him several different times, including the deal they made with Michael for Walt. Locke wasn't one of the people they wanted and was left behind to push the button… or not.

I think now he is really interested in Locke since he isn't healing quickly… and Locke shows up just in time to do the one thing Ben wanted, destroy the sub.

Uh oh, I just thought of something to confuse my theory. In The Hunting Party, Tom et al sent Locke (among the others) back to the beach and told them never to cross the line. At that time, the Others wanted Walt (and secondarily, Michael).

Just a few days later, Ben comes looking for Locke in One of Them. So, why DIDN'T Tom take Locke in THP? Was this the first time the Others realized that Locke was now walking? Did Tom report back to Ben on this?

Or was Ben really acting in a totally renagade manner, without informing his followers?

maybe when Walt was in "the room" he was questioned and was forced to tell the others Locke's secret that he was paralyzed before the crash (if that was indeed the secret that Locke told Walt).

Way back when, Ben (aka Henry Gale, then), told Locke he was coming to find him. We had a lot of theories back then, about Ben scamming Locke to get the numbers, etc.

We have also wondered why Ben would go on such a trek, put himself in what would clearly be a dangerous situation, when he had a tumor.

Now we know why. Ben was trying to get himself healed, by learning from Locke the secret that reversed his paralysis. Ben WAS coming for Locke all along. Maybe he didn't even know there was a spinal surgeon available until Jack took the arrow out of his shoulder.

I really like this theory. The only question I have is wouldn't it make more sense for Ben to be coming after Rose? Ben has a tumor, Rose had a cancerous tumor and was healed. Since her condition is so close to Ben's at the time he showed up at the hatch, wouldn't have made more sense to want to see her?

I realize that the most obvious answer is that Ben didn't know about Rose's cancer and subsequent healing. However, that also makes me wonder just how much info the Other's have on the Losties. They make it appear that they have unlimited knowledge about the Losties, but maybe this isn't so much the case....

I don't think Ben was coming for Locke originally. I think he now has alot of interest in him since he is now in a wheelchair. I see Ben only wanting to manipulate Locke all the time. He did it once, now he's trying to do it again. Only now I think he needs Locke. I don't want Locke getting involved with Ben or any of the others, they are bad news.

Here's what we know for sure:

1) Cooper is a con man.
2) Ben is a con man.
3) Locke gets conned. A lot.

Seems to me there must be a long term con going on here, the question is: will Locke continue his cycle of getting conned, or will he redeem his character and come out on top?

Of course, if he is able to redeem himself, we all know what will happen to him...

I really like this theory. The only question I have is wouldn't it make more sense for Ben to be coming after Rose? Ben has a tumor, Rose had a cancerous tumor and was healed. Since her condition is so close to Ben's at the time he showed up at the hatch, wouldn't have made more sense to want to see her?
I guess because Rose's cancer isn't necessarily visible from the outside of her body, so he didn't know she was healed?

I don't think he wanted Locke at all at that point because they could have captured him several different times, including the deal they made with Michael for Walt. Locke wasn't one of the people they wanted and was left behind to push the button… or not.
Ben didn't know they were making a deal with Michael to get him back. That was all Klugh's idea. He didn't like what she did to save him and had no influence on who she put on the list. I personally find the whole THP thing more confusing to me, because Ben was still with the Others then.

I don't think Ben not walking is part of a con. If Ben was truly healed by the island and benefitted from it's healing affects he would've never had that tumor.

I think the island doesn't like what the others are doing and that's why it doesn't heal Ben.

I tend to think that Jacob was holding the others back and giving them different orders. They knew about Locke but Jacob was directing them to not act. But when Ben's life became more in danger, he (Ben) took matters into his own hands. Maybe that is why he went himself. Because his people wouldn't disobey Jacob but Ben (being favored by Jacob) figured he could get away with it. Then he wanted to make contact with Locke and in the process learned about Jack.

Excellent and well said. Remember when Jack was first captured. Pickett said why are we keeping him here. He is not even on Jacobs list.
Ben is taking matters into his own hands and not following the Jacob. Ben makes fun of the original Dharma projects and manipulates the scientists that have been recruited by the organizations that have taken over Dharma.

I'm starting to think the reason Ben was captured (or let himself be captured) was to destroy the hatch. I think he was manipulating Locke by telling him that he was coming for him. The reason? To gain his trust so that he could mess with him and make Locke not enter the numbers and thus destroy the hatch. When Locke was trapped and Ben went to enter the numbers, he told Locke that he didn't make it in time, never entered the numbers, and nothing happened… we now know that was a lie.

I don't think he wanted Locke at all at that point because they could have captured him several different times, including the deal they made with Michael for Walt. Locke wasn't one of the people they wanted and was left behind to push the button… or not.

I think now he is really interested in Locke since he isn't healing quickly… and Locke shows up just in time to do the one thing Ben wanted, destroy the sub.
Thanks for bringing this up! I think this is probably the case. Ben wasn't worried about Locke until his situation made Locke relevant to him. Before that he just let it all go as another act of the island.