So what was the big mythological questions that was suppose to be answered in this episode, The producers had implied that this episode was going to answered a big mythological questions. So do anyone know what was the big mythological questions that was suppose to be ansered?

When did they say that?

I think it revealed that the Others knew about the Swan before Ben was captured for one thing

That the Others and Dharma must be one in the same??

..... I think we might need to define "big" and "mythological" for the writers.

There was nothing big that was answered in that episode. (But don't they promise something like this every episode nowadays) :rolleyes:

They have very very potent spiders?

I'm confused. Was this something the producers actually said or was this something that was stated in an ABC promo?

I'm confused. Was this something the producers actually said or was this something that was stated in an ABC promo?

Yes, they stated this in interviews and their podcast.

Yeah I thought something would've been answered but... it didn't seem that way at all.

And perhaps something to do with Ben/Juliet and the surgery

I'm wit you- I thought we were going to find something "ground breaking" out about the Others.... but Nothing!!
I am disappointed.

Well, there was plenty of "ground breaking" going on--the whole plot was about burying things and people--

Could it be that there are tunnels that connect Othersville with the stations? Could it be that they did know about the Russian guy in the communication station? I know, I know I grasping at straws.

Well, we know why they took Walt now (for sure).

Yes, they stated this in interviews and their podcast.

Do you have a link please?

They have very very potent spiders?
:rotflmao2:

I think they might have been referring to the question of why the others took jack, sawyer, and kate -- that kate and sawyer were taken to force jack into doing the surgery.

Another thing is that Smokey has now killed someone other than the pilot.

I wonder if the seeds for the gamechanger were planted in this episode but we won't find out the truth until later


by that I mean if we go back and really watch tonight's fb's with a fine tooth comb, will we find out this past doesn't jive perfectly with the true history? were certain things off a bit? Does this suggest Pikki existed in an alternate timeline for the crash?


i was looking for little things but i don't know if i was that successful.

Another thing is that Smokey has now killed someone other than the pilot.

That was answered when Smokey killed Eko.

AHEM.

Don

the other thing is with the involvement of everyone in the lostie camp participating in this funeral/burial, they are all now guilty of murder. with locke pushing russian guy into the sonic fence, he too has now murdered.


I believe, every single character on the island has now murdered someone else or is dead (ie libby)


the only exception (and it's debateable, is jack)

Maybe that Nikki and Paulo were manifestations of the island like Yemi, Dave, Christian S. (Perhaps) Anthony Cooper. That these manifestations can have memories and can be physically touched, etc. Makes you wonder who else amongst the Losties are or could be a manifestation.

Aw, I came in here to delete that post, but now someone's already quoted it...

Well, we know why they took Walt now (for sure).

wait, what?

Wait, what?

Smokey killed someone tonight?

And we found out about Walt? WHat?

wait, what?

When Ben and Juliet were in the Pearl, he said that he was taking Walt, so that Michael would take Jake, Kate, and Sawyer to the Others. He would then use Kate and Sawyer to make sure Jack did the surgery.

the episode was brilliant and one of the best of the season. I think you all stepped out during commercials and missed a lot of if it if you didn't see what the writers did. You're going to have to watch it again or just miss the boat, one of the two I think.

1. The episode revealed Paulo and Nikki's actions on the island. Therefore it completely solved the Paulo and Nikki question in the most original way since The Other 48 Days. This is a big deal. It's self-evident that it's a big deal. If you didn't really watch the show, sure I can imagine that some of this is over your head, and that's fine, it's a well-written episode without knowing the Lost mythology. But if you caught all the episodes then you should know how big these answers are.
2. The Ben and Juliet discussion detailed the answers to questions related to the season finale of season 2. Also, very major. If you missed season 3 episodes it might not have mattered, but it was a big deal.
3. The writers revealed that we do not know what has been edited out of the scenes we've seen, therefore showing us that we should expect MORE information and stories happening contemporaneously to known season 1 and season 2 episodes. This is a major reveal for the Lost structure.

Those are three major things that happened in this episode. come back tomorrow because people smarter than I will have detailed probably a dozen important things that I missed.

that boone looks horrible in a wig? shannon questioned his sexuality?

they only thing that i can say that i learned was, he told jack that he needed him because they could no longer get off of the island. so was that a lie, they couldnt get off the island back then? or did they just lie about the period of time when they could get off?

When Ben and Juliet were in the Pearl, he said that he was taking Walt, so that Michael would take Jake, Kate, and Sawyer to the Others. He would then use Kate and Sawyer to make sure Jack did the surgery.



either you are very wrong or you just stumbled into something major.


when ben and juliet went into the pearl hatch they tuned into jack already in the hatch. if jack was already in the hatch, walt was already kidnapped. so ben couldn't have said he'd be 'taking walt' they would already have taken him. and by the timeline showed i think michael had already set out to find him


but...if you are right, then what we witnessed with this flashback was an alternate timeline of events. told to us in a slightly adjusted way

which is certainly VERY gamechanging.

Wait, what?

Smokey killed someone tonight?

And we found out about Walt? WHat?

Well Ben and Juliet didn't actually say "lets take Walt", but they did say that they could use Michael to get Jack to do the surgery. So the presumption is to use Michael they'd take Walt.

As for Smokey....it was Hurley that kept saying Smokie killed Pikki....and you know how Hurley seems to have insight into things...in his own way. I think there's more to this, like maybe Pikki has been a manifestation of the island all along.????

Yes, I should have said "he took Walt" instead of "he's taking Walt."

Do you have a link please?


Summary of the pocast:

http://spoilerslost.blogspot.com/2007/03/offical-abc-podcast_21.html

the episode was brilliant and one of the best of the season. I think you all stepped out during commercials and missed a lot of if it if you didn't see what the writers did. You're going to have to watch it again or just miss the boat, one of the two I think.

1. The episode revealed Paulo and Nikki's actions on the island. Therefore it completely solved the Paulo and Nikki question in the most original way since The Other 48 Days. This is a big deal. It's self-evident that it's a big deal. If you didn't really watch the show, sure I can imagine that some of this is over your head, and that's fine, it's a well-written episode without knowing the Lost mythology. But if you caught all the episodes then you should know how big these answers are.
2. The Ben and Juliet discussion detailed the answers to questions related to the season finale of season 2. Also, very major. If you missed season 3 episodes it might not have mattered, but it was a big deal.
3. The writers revealed that we do not know what has been edited out of the scenes we've seen, therefore showing us that we should expect MORE information and stories happening contemporaneously to known season 1 and season 2 episodes. This is a major reveal for the Lost structure.

Those are three major things that happened in this episode. come back tomorrow because people smarter than I will have detailed probably a dozen important things that I missed.

Don, I totally agree. I was very satisfied with this episode. In fact, I feel like we're getting great answers/reveals in every episode so far this season.

Ok people, in last week's podcast Damon and Carlton jokingly mentioned that "there might be ONE mythological answer buried in the frivolity of the Nikki and Paulo episode". Personally I think its the little scene in the Pearl, with Ben and Juliet discussing how to get Jack.

Either that, or it's the revelation of the IDENTITY OF THE COBRA! :eek:

Will someone Please tell me what is going on???? I watched the show and I am still confused as to the mythological answer is. Other than if your a villian like Nikki you will open your eyes to see yourself being burried alive... I also assume Boone was the gay person???

Personally I think its the little scene in the Pearl, with Ben and Juliet discussing how to get Jack.

That's what I thought, too. That scene seemed to me to have the most information of the whole show.

But this happened before Ben was "taken prisoner" right?

I think it will have something to do with the monster sound with the spiders.

I think it will have something to do with the monster sound with the spiders.

I agree. The monster judged them and found that they were not "good". Hence the monster led to their deaths.

Also, this episode did show that (in a round about way) that the writers do know what is going on in advance and have things planned out better than some give them credit for.

That's what I thought, too. That scene seemed to me to have the most information of the whole show.

But this happened before Ben was "taken prisoner" right?

Which implies that maybe Ben wasn't actually capture by Danielle, but it was all part of the Ben's plan to find out more about Jack and the others.


the other thing is with the involvement of everyone in the lostie camp participating in this funeral/burial, they are all now guilty of murder. with locke pushing russian guy into the sonic fence, he too has now murdered.


I believe, every single character on the island has now murdered someone else or is dead (ie libby)


the only exception (and it's debateable, is jack)

..I agree with you about Jack,considering the way he behave towards Achara in "Stranger in a strange Land", when she said that she see who people are, and than mark them. Jack became very aggressive toward her. Like he was afraid that she knew a secret about him that he didn't want anyone to know. So I say rather ,or not Jack kill someone is debatable, considering that so far just about everyone on the island had killed someone.


by that I mean if we go back and really watch tonight's fb's with a fine tooth comb, will we find out this past doesn't jive perfectly with the true history? were certain things off a bit? Does this suggest Pikki existed in an alternate timeline for the crash?

I wonder that too. I find it strange that Nikki,and Paulo supposedly been there since the beginning, yet Sawyer do not know who they are. Hmm? was timeline alter since Sawyer was on the other side of the island?


As for Smokey....it was Hurley that kept saying Smokie killed Pikki....and you know how Hurley seems to have insight into things...in his own way. I think there's more to this, like maybe Pikki has been a manifestation of the island all along.????

You can hear the monster right before Nikki is bit by the spider. Remember last week, when Ben told Locke about the magic box that grants wishes? Right after Paulo said "if we found the diamonds you wouldn't need me anymore", the monster "adding machine" sound was heard... then the spiders appeared, fulfilling Paulo's wish that he and Nikki would stay together. ;)

Originally Posted by Jenni Lou View Post
Yes, they stated this in interviews and their podcast.
Do you have a link please?


1 - Lost Spoilers offers us a summary of the spoilers Cuse and Lindelof revealed in the latest podcast: This episode is set to answer a big mythological question. The gay character will appear in "Exposé." Source: Lost Podcasts
Link to the Lost podcast: Lost Podcast (http://abc.go.com/primetime/lost/podcast)

Boone had sex with Shannon in Australia.

He may have been bi, but he's not gay.

Unless he's gay in the new timeline. :rolleyes:

We learned Juliet perform barefooted like Sade?

Seriously, she didnt have shoes did she? Isnt a rare jungle the last place you want to go barefooted?

Ok in the podcast synopsis I just looked at, this was one of the comments... The Others didn't know or had limited knowledge about the Swan station

Are we still buying this stuff...they are probably having a good giggle about it now. :)

I think they are messing with the fans because they also say some things about Mikhail and what gay character??...so uh...did I miss that part??

We learned Juliet perform barefooted like Sade?

Seriously, she didnt have shoes did she? Isnt a rare jungle the last place you want to go barefooted?

yes, especially with paralysis-inducing spiders around.

Yet- whenever we've seen the others in their dirty outfits, they've always been shoeless- may this is how they don't leave tracks?

Um...er...they obviously came through some sort of underground tunnel or some such. They certainly didn't come in the way Paulo did. Anyone find it odd that they left the walkie talkie and didn't notice it missing - or maybe they did later...??

Also, this episode did show that (in a round about way) that the writers do know what is going on in advance and have things planned out better than some give them credit for.


Honestly, this is the first time I've felt the exact opposite...This season we've had an indication that Ben could've left the island to get surgery until the hatch exploded, yet here he explicitly says that the reason they kidnapped Jack, Kate and Sawyer was because he wanted Jack to perform the surgery, and Kate and Sawyer would be the motivations...I'm not going to get too down on the show--though this is the first continuity error I've witnessed that actually decreases my enjoyment of the show.

of course, there is the possiblity that a missing piece of information could remove the conflict...like if we found out the other's really couldn't leave the island prior to the hatch being blown, but after Ethan and creepy-eye-dude left to recruit Juliette..

i don't know...i'm very forgiving, but this crossed a line for me where it's getting hard to know what's allowed and what isn't in the show's mythology...

I'm confused. Was this something the producers actually said or was this something that was stated in an ABC promo?

producers=1 writers=0 ABC=1

So what was the big mythological questions that was suppose to be answered in this episode, The producers had implied that this episode was going to answered a big mythological questions. So do anyone know what was the big mythological questions that was suppose to be ansered?

producers=2 writers=0 ABC=1

Yes, they stated this in interviews and their podcast.

producers=2 writers=0 ABC=1 (score stays the same until "they" is identified)

..... I think we might need to define "big" and "mythological" for the writers. There was nothing big that was answered in that episode. (But don't they promise something like this every episode nowadays) :rolleyes:

producers=2 writers=1 ABC=1




Link to the Lost podcast: Lost Podcast (http://abc.go.com/primetime/lost/podcast)

Am I the only person who felt like they were watching Stipper Gump? (though certainly there will be no danger of Academy Awards for this drivel)

I mean, how much more ridiculous could it have been? Pikki lurking on the edges of things that have been happening? *slowly shakes head*

Will someone Please tell me what is going on???? I watched the show and I am still confused as to the mythological answer is. Other than if your a villian like Nikki you will open your eyes to see yourself being burried alive... I also assume Boone was the gay person???

In season one when Locke and Boone were excavating the hatch. Shannon was getting ticked b/c Boon wouldn't tell him what they were doing and she said, "What is he your new boyfriend now?" I think being that it was said twice it's definitely Boone who is gay!

Honestly, this is the first time I've felt the exact opposite...This season we've had an indication that Ben could've left the island to get surgery until the hatch exploded, yet here he explicitly says that the reason they kidnapped Jack, Kate and Sawyer was because he wanted Jack to perform the surgery, and Kate and Sawyer would be the motivations...I'm not going to get too down on the show--though this is the first continuity error I've witnessed that actually decreases my enjoyment of the show.


Why would Ben leave the island when he's lived there his whole life?? And a spinal surgeon just fell into his lap...not to mention their might be a reason he can't leave the island. I don't remember him ever mentioning a plan to leave the island...they seem to recruit their own people and remember Ethan was their doctor. I don't see how this is a continuity error. Maybe more people should just trust in the writing and wait and see.

Couldn't the mythological thing answered be that everything is rooted in reality? Hurley believed that it was "the monster" that got them. It turned out to be bugs (I have "A" phobia and just listened to most of this episode, hence my substitution of the word bugs...its that bad).

Sun thought the Others kidnapped her and found out it was really Charlie. Hurley went to Desmond for some psychic answers and what he got was exactly what Desmond saw.

I am glad Nikki and Paulo are gone because they blogged down the show for me. Nice job!

the episode was brilliant and one of the best of the season. I think you all stepped out during commercials and missed a lot of if it if you didn't see what the writers did. You're going to have to watch it again or just miss the boat, one of the two I think.

1. The episode revealed Paulo and Nikki's actions on the island. Therefore it completely solved the Paulo and Nikki question in the most original way since The Other 48 Days. This is a big deal. It's self-evident that it's a big deal. If you didn't really watch the show, sure I can imagine that some of this is over your head, and that's fine, it's a well-written episode without knowing the Lost mythology. But if you caught all the episodes then you should know how big these answers are.
2. The Ben and Juliet discussion detailed the answers to questions related to the season finale of season 2. Also, very major. If you missed season 3 episodes it might not have mattered, but it was a big deal.
3. The writers revealed that we do not know what has been edited out of the scenes we've seen, therefore showing us that we should expect MORE information and stories happening contemporaneously to known season 1 and season 2 episodes. This is a major reveal for the Lost structure.

Those are three major things that happened in this episode. come back tomorrow because people smarter than I will have detailed probably a dozen important things that I missed.

Woah Don

None of that was major:biggrin:

The writers never said this would answer big mythological questions. In fact they said in the podcast this was a BREAK from all we just learned in the previous episode.

If the spiders that bit Nikki turn out to be manifestations of the smoke monster, then I guess that's big?

Allow me to reenact that chain of events:

*Nikki throws spider at Paulo*
*Paulo is bitten, proceeds to squish spider*
-side effect of above events: release of scent that attracts other spiders-
*Paulo hits ground, dialogue between the two, 30 seconds pass*
*Michael Johnson's pet spiders enter the scene, delivering a paralyzing bite to the ankle of Nikki*

That's gotta be the smoke.
1) We heard smoke's mating call (which if I ever meet him, will be on the "things that are not good for stealthiness" list that I will present to him). Being Lost, I assume there's a reason behind this.
2) Bunch of spiders in their exact location, quickly. Doubt it was just bad luck.
3) The crucialness of that spider biting (and thus paralyzing) Nikki. If not for that, neither of them die. Smoke having a hand in their deaths adds a layer, some meaning, to what otherwise could be considered just some horribly bad luck (and ultimately serving nothing towards the plot). Long live Edgar Allen Poe.

i think they finally put to rest the question, "why did the others REALLY kidnap jack, kate, and sawyer?" we know now that it was for the surgery alone.

which means TPTB want us to be asking ourselves why ben needed surgery in the first place if the island was able to cure locke and rose...

i've got a feeling that bit of information and that question will lead us through to the finale...

.This season we've had an indication that Ben could've left the island to get surgery until the hatch exploded, yet here he explicitly says that the reason they kidnapped Jack, Kate and Sawyer was because he wanted Jack to perform the surgery, and Kate and Sawyer would be the motivations...I'm not going to get too down on the show--though this is the first continuity error I've witnessed that actually decreases my enjoyment of the show.

Remember what Danielle said? "don't trust him, he lies". I think that Ben was lying to Jack when he told him he was going to leave the island. I think Ben might have been lying all along to everyone. I do not think Ben can leave the island, which would explain why he was so happy that Locke blew up the submarine . Ben might not have a way to leave the island, but he might not want people to know that. Desmond said that there was no way to leave the island, that he kept going around in circles, so maybe that's true, and Ben knows this, but do not want anyone to know. Ben claim he allow Walt and Michael to leave the island, but since we haven't seen them, we can not be sure that they made it off the island, or not. Walt and Micheal might have just been sent to another island. ..or they might be dead.

In season one when Locke and Boone were excavating the hatch. Shannon was getting ticked b/c Boon wouldn't tell him what they were doing and she said, "What is he your new boyfriend now?" I think being that it was said twice it's definitely Boone who is gay!

I agree. Boone might be gay, or bi-sexual.

Ok people, in last week's podcast Damon and Carlton jokingly mentioned that "there might be ONE mythological answer buried in the frivolity of the Nikki and Paulo episode". Personally I think its the little scene in the Pearl, with Ben and Juliet discussing how to get Jack.
This is the answer I thought was answered in this episode. It also sounded like they wanted Kate and Sawyer for something OTHER that coercing Jack into compliance but that would be an added benefit.

Either that, or it's the revelation of the IDENTITY OF THE COBRA! :eek: :lol:

Well Ben and Juliet didn't actually say "lets take Walt", but they did say that they could use Michael to get Jack to do the surgery. So the presumption is to use Michael they'd take Walt.

Way too big a presumption! Saying they could use Michael and taking Walt are two completely different things. It seems Ben recently thought of this and is letting Juliet in on his idea after Walt has been taken.


As for Smokey....it was Hurley that kept saying Smokie killed Pikki....and you know how Hurley seems to have insight into things...in his own way. I think there's more to this, like maybe Pikki has been a manifestation of the island all along.????

Hurley has insight into things in his own way? Where does that come from? He observes people and has a good sense of character but this seems like another huge presumption. As for Pikki being a smokey manifestation, I highly doubt it since Pikki had their own flashback.

What difference could it possibly make at this point if Boone were gay? He's dead! Why would it matter?

What they said in the podcast was that this episode would reveal one mythological question. Namely, if the Others knew about the Swan Station.

If the spiders that bit Nikki turn out to be manifestations of the smoke monster, then I guess that's big?

Allow me to reenact that chain of events:

*Nikki throws spider at Paulo*
*Paulo is bitten, proceeds to squish spider*
-side effect of above events: release of scent that attracts other spiders-
*Paulo hits ground, dialogue between the two, 30 seconds pass*
*Michael Johnson's pet spiders enter the scene, delivering a paralyzing bite to the ankle of Nikki*

That's gotta be the smoke.
1) We heard smoke's mating call (which if I ever meet him, will be on the "things that are not good for stealthiness" list that I will present to him). Being Lost, I assume there's a reason behind this.
2) Bunch of spiders in their exact location, quickly. Doubt it was just bad luck.
3) The crucialness of that spider biting (and thus paralyzing) Nikki. If not for that, neither of them die. Smoke having a hand in their deaths adds a layer, some meaning, to what otherwise could be considered just some horribly bad luck (and ultimately serving nothing towards the plot). Long live Edgar Allen Poe.

If you remember the teacher said that once other spiders get a whiff of his females theramones, they'd appear really quickly.

True, the smoke monster was around but i dont think the spiders are necessarily around because of smokey. Might be though? Just an observation :)

My hunch is smokey was around because of the death. Not to make spiders appear :)

Single biggest problem with the paralyzing spiders: Artz only told Nikki? Granted, our Losties will win no prizes for their communication skills, but please! There is a spider on the island which will paralyze you and make you appear dead ... and Artz the science guy knew it ... and he kept it to himself? Even a complete idiot would have shared THAT kind of information. Just to be polite, for heaven's sake. When you're in a group of people in a survival situation, that's simply not the sort of information one keeps to ones self.

People would have known. Thus there's no way Pikki would have been buried so quickly. No injuries = wait to make sure it's not those make ya look dead paralyzing spiders.

What difference could it possibly make at this point if Boone were gay? He's dead! Why would it matter?
It could matter if Boone is in fact one of the Whisperers, which is a theory. But I don't know.

I agree. Boone might be gay, or bi-sexual.

I thought that Shannon's comments to Boone were just related to being siblings and fighting. I have two brothers, and I couldn't tell you the amount of times I have said similar comments to them when angry (of things that are not true.) I think when you strike with a comment that is not true, it makes the other person more angry. I don't think it means Boone was gay. Just my opinion.

I do think that the mythological question has to do with the monster sound. Not sure what exactly, but it was curious that the sound came and then the spiders. Not that I don't think the pheromones weren't released form the first spider, but do we really think the spiders can arrive that fast?

Another thing is that Smokey has now killed someone other than the pilot.

How quickly we have forgotten Eko.
100%
Well Ben and Juliet didn't actually say "lets take Walt", but they did say that they could use Michael to get Jack to do the surgery. So the presumption is to use Michael they'd take Walt.

As for Smokey....it was Hurley that kept saying Smokie killed Pikki....and you know how Hurley seems to have insight into things...in his own way. I think there's more to this, like maybe Pikki has been a manifestation of the island all along.????

We see Nikki and paulo, by themselves, wondering what the Monster is.

Why would the Monster ask itself what the Monster is?
100%
We learned Juliet perform barefooted like Sade?

Seriously, she didnt have shoes did she? Isnt a rare jungle the last place you want to go barefooted?

The Others were barefoot a lot in season 2.

How quickly we have forgotten Eko.

And probably Sceve as well.

We see Nikki and paulo, by themselves, wondering what the Monster is.

Why would the Monster ask itself what the Monster is?

Method, baby! The Monster is totally a method actor. He was in character as Pikki as he was manifesting. :biggrin:

Remember what Danielle said? "don't trust him, he lies". I think that Ben was lying to Jack when he told him he was going to leave the island. I think Ben might have been lying all along to everyone.

Hes a bigger liar than Pinocchio. Don't you find it odd that he has "lived on the island all his life" so he never knew Locke personally, yet he knows all the details of his daddy issues and paralysis ???

The things I got from the episode was...
1) Why Paulo was in the bathroom
2) The Others knew about the Pearl and had eyes on the Losties after Ethan died
3) The Monster either was the spiders or somehow manipulated them to get to Nikki really quick
4) The writing room isn't above having one of the creepiest endings on television
5) I don't think the Other's originally took Walt to get Michael to get Jack, but it turned out that way. It also explained why they took Kate and Sawyer. They were just being used to manipulate Jack.

Did anyone notice that minus Jack, Locke, Sayid or Kate, how Hurley seemed to step up as a leader?

either you are very wrong or you just stumbled into something major.


when ben and juliet went into the pearl hatch they tuned into jack already in the hatch. if jack was already in the hatch, walt was already kidnapped. so ben couldn't have said he'd be 'taking walt' they would already have taken him. and by the timeline showed i think michael had already set out to find him


but...if you are right, then what we witnessed with this flashback was an alternate timeline of events. told to us in a slightly adjusted way

which is certainly VERY gamechanging.


Wait... couldn't they of already taken Michael hostage, met the Losties at the "don't cross the line" meeting and planned to have Michael return for "the list" of folks. Sounds like Ben was planning for the list to be given to Michael.

Unless I am completely befuddled with the timeline.

D/

The only question that I came up with was "what is the question that was answered?" And I don't think there was one - at least none with any significance. Having learned never to listen to a word that TPTB say regarding an upcoming episode (or anything that we haven't already viewed), and learning not to listen to any hype by ABC -- I did watch this episode without expecting to learn anything. I wasn't disappointed. The episode, in my opinion, was a futile attempt to embed 2 very annoying and weak characters into a bunch of previously viewed scenes. For each flashback scene, we had a slightly different angle of the same old same old - with no major differences - it was the same scene with different people. There wasn't much of anything that this episode contributed overall - maybe it was just an attempt to make character fans happy by showing their now dead characters..

The big thing I got was that Ben and Company knew of the stations all along, had insight into them (Via the Pearl) and also that they knew a LOT of our Losties very quickly. Ben also admitted to Juliette that he gets people to do things for him by manipulating them. It also put into perspective the whole kidnapping J/K/S thing.

Here's a couple of things I came up with though....

Why did Boone and Locke NOT see the uncovered hatch door of the Pearl? Apparently Pikki found the door before the plane was found by Locke and Boone. That didn't make sense in the timeline of things. ..... by the way, why is everyone mentioning an alternate timeline? That doesn't make sense to me.

Why did Ben HAVE to get Jack to do the surgery the way he did? I know this has been asked before, but couldn't Ben have just ASKED Jack to do the surgery? ... I guess if that happened then there wouldn't have been a second season eh?

And I also agree that with the other Alpha characters around, Hurley does seem to step up to the plate and become a quasi-leader...

Very well done episode in my opinion...

Don't forget that we also know more about the timeline. Nikki did say that "Thanksgiving was almost two weeks ago."

We have not had this kind a timeline comfirnation in awhile.

(Copied from my previous post and placed here since I didn't see this thread before)


I've seen a few people on here saying that no questions were answered..when really..lots of them were answered.

1. Ben was, in fact, not coming for John Locke as he stated in Season two when he was captured in the hatch. Now we know that he was coming for Jack all along.

2. The others were planning on manipulating Michael long before we originally thought. It wasn't the sudden situation that Miss Klugh/Bea made it out to be. "Our man's been captured, you have to get him back, etc etc." They knew he would come after Walt..so they gave him the trail to follow.

3. It's likely that it wasn't Walt on the computer typing to Michael in Season 2. It was probably the Others baiting Michael, giving him that trail I mentioned above.

4. Depending on what day it was when Paulo saw Ben and Juliet in the Pearl, The others may have other surveillance all over the Island. They may not have been watching Jack in the Swan...they have have been watching him in the Caves.

To explain a little further, Nikki and Paulo went after the diamonds after Kate came back with the guns. I'm not sure what day the gun issue became public knowledge, but Boone was still alive when the guns were found...the plane had not yet fallen..so we're talking Season 1 here. Also..they (Paulo and Nikki) found the Pearl before the plane fell off the cliff. So how long did Paulo wait to stash the diamonds?

Anyways, back to the point. If it all happened right before Boone fell in the plane..then that means that Ben and Juliet were watching Jack in the Caves.

5. Boone's death may not have been an accident. Since Ben was going to tell Tom to covered up the hatch with the plane, is it possible that the plane was pushed while Boone was in it trying to radio for help? It makes sense because obviously The Others didn't want anyone else coming to the Island, and if they heard a connection between radios, they decided to stop communication.

Of course that also depends on what is mentioned above in number 4. The timeline being what I think it is.

6. We sorta found out why they took Kate and Sawyer too. Ben exploits emotion. Jack is emotionally attached to Kate.

Ben knows that Kate and Sawyer have a connection as well, since he's been watching Jack for so long. Maybe that's why Sawyer and Kate were put in cages where they could see each other, but not touch, making them crave it. It would also explain why Kate was never busted on getting out of her cage except for when they came for Sawyer that last time.

Ben wanted Kate and Sawyer to get it on, which explains why Jack's locked door to his "cell room" he was in was suddenly open. And also explains why the surveillance room door was just hanging open too. Ben wanted Jack to be "broken" emotionally so that he would be easier to manipulate. Or so that Jack really had nothing much else left to fight for, and wouldn't get all defiant during surgery. That of course, backfired. But I think that's the only reason he wanted Kate and Sawyer.

Seriously, she didnt have shoes did she? Isnt a rare jungle the last place you want to go barefooted?Who said they walked THROUGH the jungle? They never showed them walking up or down the ladder. They may have walked under the jungle in which case no shoes required.

He may have been bi, but he's not gay.

Unless he's gay in the new timeline. :rolleyes:

Shannon also said "Oh, is he your new boyfriend?" about Locke in S1. Didn't we hear that this episode would reveal the gay character?

On an unrelated note, Ian Somerhalder has played gay characters multiple times before (although in "Young Americans," his character thought he was gay but wasn't...pricelessly awful...)

Why did Boone and Locke NOT see the uncovered hatch door of the Pearl? Apparently Pikki found the door before the plane was found by Locke and Boone. That didn't make sense in the timeline of things.

Ben: Why was the door hanging open?
Juliet: Tom was down here the other day, he must've forgot to close it.

Occem's Razor says that after Ben and Juliet were in the Pearl, Ben ordered the hatch to be more properly concealed. Probably chewed out Tom, as well.

As a general note to everybody, at no time in this episode did the Monster make an appearance. The Monster had nothing to do with the spiders -- what we heard weren't the sounds of smokie; it was just dramatic music for the dramatic situation. Nothing mythological was revealed in this episode, either. Don't confuse mythology with psychology; learning that Ben and Juliet visited the Pearl didn't reveal anything mythological, it just confirmed to us what many already suspected -- that Ben is a big fat liar and knew about the Swan long before he was "captured."

Also, I want to be the first to say it -- Nikki and Paulo zombies!

the episode was brilliant and one of the best of the season. I think you all stepped out during commercials and missed a lot of if it if you didn't see what the writers did. You're going to have to watch it again or just miss the boat, one of the two I think.

1. The episode revealed Paulo and Nikki's actions on the island. Therefore it completely solved the Paulo and Nikki question in the most original way since The Other 48 Days. This is a big deal. It's self-evident that it's a big deal. If you didn't really watch the show, sure I can imagine that some of this is over your head, and that's fine, it's a well-written episode without knowing the Lost mythology. But if you caught all the episodes then you should know how big these answers are.
2. The Ben and Juliet discussion detailed the answers to questions related to the season finale of season 2. Also, very major. If you missed season 3 episodes it might not have mattered, but it was a big deal.
3. The writers revealed that we do not know what has been edited out of the scenes we've seen, therefore showing us that we should expect MORE information and stories happening contemporaneously to known season 1 and season 2 episodes. This is a major reveal for the Lost structure.

Those are three major things that happened in this episode. come back tomorrow because people smarter than I will have detailed probably a dozen important things that I missed.

1. What is the "Paolo and Nikki question," other than "who are these people and why is our time being wasted with them?" Please elaborate on the "big" answers. I watch every show twice and do not know what you are talking about.

2. The only question answered was why they took Kate and Sawyer - obviously to use them to get to Jack. I already figured that out on my own. The BIG questions from Season 2 - e.g. why did Ben lie about the button - are still unanswered.

One thing it showed is that the "monster" doesn't just randomly kill... Ben and Juliet strolled into the station with all the TV monitors without a care in the world... ("who left the door open?")... Ben's supposedly been on the island all his life (his words - so could be a lie) so........ if him and the Others wander around so much, wouldn't the monster have picked them off by now?

Why aren't they even scared of the monster...?

We should find out in a few episodes' time at least...

Hurley has insight into things in his own way? Where does that come from? He observes people and has a good sense of character but this seems like another huge presumption. As for Pikki being a smokey manifestation, I highly doubt it since Pikki had their own flashback.


The whole time they were showing flashbacks, I was wondering how they were doing that if these characters were dead. I guess since we discover they are just paralysed it was possible but... the flashbacks really throw me off. Could it be smokey was going through their memories?
100%
Single biggest problem with the paralyzing spiders: Artz only told Nikki? Granted, our Losties will win no prizes for their communication skills, but please! There is a spider on the island which will paralyze you and make you appear dead ... and Artz the science guy knew it ... and he kept it to himself? Even a complete idiot would have shared THAT kind of information. Just to be polite, for heaven's sake. When you're in a group of people in a survival situation, that's simply not the sort of information one keeps to ones self.

People would have known. Thus there's no way Pikki would have been buried so quickly. No injuries = wait to make sure it's not those make ya look dead paralyzing spiders.


Then again, Artz wasn't know as the most polite person around. And the Losties assumed Pikki had poisoned each other, didn't they?

I really don't think we've seen the last of Pikki, sadly :( Please let them just stay dead and buried!

Ben: Why was the door hanging open?
Juliet: Tom was down here the other day, he must've forgot to close it.

Occem's Razor says that after Ben and Juliet were in the Pearl, Ben ordered the hatch to be more properly concealed. Probably chewed out Tom, as well.

As a general note to everybody, at no time in this episode did the Monster make an appearance. The Monster had nothing to do with the spiders -- what we heard weren't the sounds of smokie; it was just dramatic music for the dramatic situation. Nothing mythological was revealed in this episode, either. Don't confuse mythology with psychology; learning that Ben and Juliet visited the Pearl didn't reveal anything mythological, it just confirmed to us what many already suspected -- that Ben is a big fat liar and knew about the Swan long before he was "captured."

Also, I want to be the first to say it -- Nikki and Paulo zombies!

I agree with most of what you said, except that we defiantly heard smokie. It was the same noise that we hear in season 1 when Jake and Kate spy smokie darting through the jungle in Exodus (I think it was part 2). It wasn't dramatic music because as we hear that noise Nikki becomes slightly distressed and looks around as if trying to find the source of the odd sound.

Honestly, this is the first time I've felt the exact opposite...This season we've had an indication that Ben could've left the island to get surgery until the hatch exploded, yet here he explicitly says that the reason they kidnapped Jack, Kate and Sawyer was because he wanted Jack to perform the surgery, and Kate and Sawyer would be the motivations...I'm not going to get too down on the show--though this is the first continuity error I've witnessed that actually decreases my enjoyment of the show.

of course, there is the possiblity that a missing piece of information could remove the conflict...like if we found out the other's really couldn't leave the island prior to the hatch being blown, but after Ethan and creepy-eye-dude left to recruit Juliette..

i don't know...i'm very forgiving, but this crossed a line for me where it's getting hard to know what's allowed and what isn't in the show's mythology...

Ten minutes of research on Jack by someone on the other end of the satellite link in the Flame would have turned up hits that Jack is one of the most renowned spinal surgeons on the planet. Ben just so happens to have a tumor on his spine.

We can safely deduce from TMFT that Ben doesn't want anyone to leave the island. I think we can also take that to mean himself. Having one of the best spinal surgeons around land in his backyard answered his prayers. Seems simple enough to me.

Boone is not gay.
Just because his sister calls him gay when she's trying to tick him off does not mean he's gay. People say stuff like that all the time, specially between siblings.
TPTB were joking around when they mentioned someone being gay in their podcast. If anything, I think they were referring to the fact that Shannon "called" him gay in anger.

Could someone please post the exact wording that TPTB used when they said there would be a mythological question answered? I think we should make that clear before we go on a 300 page rant.

Maybe the bag that the diamonds were in is the same bag that the black and white stones were in in season one.

Why did Boone and Locke NOT see the uncovered hatch door of the Pearl? Apparently Pikki found the door before the plane was found by Locke and Boone.
Pikki didn't find the hatch until after walking past the plane (technically, under it). Besides, Locke wasn't there for the hatch. The Island was telling him only about the plane. Locke was pretty single-minded about it. And when Boone saw the plane and realized there might be a radio in it that could be used to call for help, he didn't really scout the area either.

Why did Ben HAVE to get Jack to do the surgery the way he did? I know this has been asked before, but couldn't Ben have just ASKED Jack to do the surgery? ... I guess if that happened then there wouldn't have been a second season eh?
My guess is by the time Ben learned Jack was a reknonwed spinal surgeon, Ethan was already dead and the Losties were not in any mood to cooperate with the Others. That's why Juliet told Ben thatJack would never agree. Also, Ben's default is to manipulate rather than ask. He's obviously a guy with a lot of trust and abandonment issues.

Ok people, in last week's podcast Damon and Carlton jokingly mentioned that "there might be ONE mythological answer buried in the frivolity of the Nikki and Paulo episode". Personally I think its the little scene in the Pearl, with Ben and Juliet discussing how to get Jack.

Either that, or it's the revelation of the IDENTITY OF THE COBRA! :eek:
Dam your good. Everyone takes everthiing so seriously with what is said inpodcast and interviews. Do you ever think they playing games with you guys. As for this epp i have rated it as one of the worst. Nikki and Paulo were a waste of time and everthing we found out during this show could have been brought to light another way.

The only answer I can come up with is


Diamonds are not a girl's best friend but dogs might be :biggrin:

Pikki didn't find the hatch until after walking past the plane (technically, under it). Besides, Locke wasn't there for the hatch. The Island was telling him only about the plane. Locke was pretty single-minded about it. And when Boone saw the plane and realized there might be a radio in it that could be used to call for help, he didn't really scout the area either.


My guess is by the time Ben learned Jack was a reknonwed spinal surgeon, Ethan was already dead and the Losties were not in any mood to cooperate with the Others. That's why Juliet told Ben thatJack would never agree. Also, Ben's default is to manipulate rather than ask. He's obviously a guy with a lot of trust and abandonment issues.

I have always felt there is more to Ben than we know. He seems to be controled by a specific set of RULES. That everyone MUST HAVE FEE WILL. If you noticed he has always said he whats everyone else to what what he says they should. Early this season jack asks is that what you what? Ben replies I what you to what to? (in reguards to doing the surgery). Same with the poeple staying on the island he doesn't what to force them to stay he what them to commit to staying.

In essence he controls the evviromet to steer the people in the direction he whats. Hence they have FREE WILL.

Ok people, in last week's podcast Damon and Carlton jokingly mentioned that "there might be ONE mythological answer buried in the frivolity of the Nikki and Paulo episode". Personally I think its the little scene in the Pearl, with Ben and Juliet discussing how to get Jack.

This is the answer I thought was answered in this episode. It also sounded like they wanted Kate and Sawyer for something OTHER than coercing Jack into compliance but that would be an added benefit.

Either that, or it's the revelation of the IDENTITY OF THE COBRA! :eek: :lol:

Heh, at least someone agrees with me!

Oh, and lostgurl, the text I have in quotation marks is pretty much what Carlton said. That there might be ONE mythological answer buried in the frivolity of the episode. I think it was the conversation between Ben and Juliet. It's also nice to note that Ben was lying to Jack earlier in the season when he said "I wish you hadn't seen that" and "We had a plan to break you!" when Jack saw Ben's X-ray photos. It was all a setup.

Again, the mythological question that Carlton and Damon said in the podcast would be answered was whether the Others knew about the Swan Station. I mean they were bs-ing about the speculation as to the answer, as usual, but they said that that was the mythological question that would be answered.

And so it was! They knew!

[quote=sickotriz;1457153]Ok people, in last week's podcast Damon and Carlton jokingly mentioned that "there might be ONE mythological answer buried in the frivolity of the Nikki and Paulo episode". Personally I think its the little scene in the Pearl, with Ben and Juliet discussing how to get Jack.



Heh, at least someone agrees with me!

Oh, and lostgurl, the text I have in quotation marks is pretty much what Carlton said. That there might be ONE mythological answer buried in the frivolity of the episode. I think it was the conversation between Ben and Juliet. It's also nice to note that Ben was lying to Jack earlier in the season when he said "I wish you hadn't seen that" and "We had a plan to break you!" when Jack saw Ben's X-ray photos. It was all a setup.

If Jack seeing Ben's X-rays was part of his plan, then why did he tell off Juliet at the others funeral for letting Jack see them?

I think we will come back to some of the things set up in this episode later that will be very important. It was a good way to remind those who may not remember of the "live together, die alone" speech, that is a big theme of the show. Also, I am certain the Other's radio will prove to be valuable to the Losties later in the season. Glad Pikki has been buried and dead (not the other way around) in grand fashion, and can't wait to see what happens next!

[quote=sickotriz;1458277]

If Jack seeing Ben's X-rays was part of his plan, then why did he tell off Juliet at the others funeral for letting Jack see them?

I don't honestly think it was part of Ben's plan. He was "working" on Jack as it were and hadn't gotten him to the place Ben wanted just yet. This premature viewing by Jack allowed him to formulate his own plan because he must have guessed they wanted him to perform the surgery. Mentally, he was nowhere near under their control.

When Ben said "I should have seen it coming" I believe it was an admission that he should have known Jack was still very capable of formulating a coup because the cards had been put down on the table too soon.

I think it was that Boone was gay.

which then poses the question...then why did he sleep with his sister..er...Shannon.

which poses a bigger question....was Boone gay in the storylines AFTER the hatch explosion...but not gay before? Meaning that maybe things HAVE changed after the key turning incident.

Transcripts from the podcast:
(I hope I don't have to spoiler these since 1. the shows been aired and 2. I dunno how to)

http://lostpedia.com/wiki/Official_Lost_Podcast_transcript/March_26%2C_2007

Damon Lindelof (http://lostpedia.com/wiki/Damon_Lindelof): We had to get a wig cause the reality is, is Ian Somerhalder is a working actor and is enormously gracious considering he is a character we have killed off the show. Every time we have ever asked him to come back, and visit us again in a flashback, he has been, you know, on a plane on his way to Hawaii always happy to rejoin the family. He's a classy guy, an enormously talented actor but, the one thing we're not gonna ask him to do is to cut his hair for two days of work to uh-

I didn't see the reference to big answers in this episode (or a gay character). Strangely I remember hearing it though. Maybe someone else has better luck

I think it was that Boone was gay.

which then poses the question...then why did he sleep with his sister..er...Shannon.

which poses a bigger question....was Boone gay in the storylines AFTER the hatch explosion...but not gay before? Meaning that maybe things HAVE changed after the key turning incident.

So Boone is gay because his sister called him that in a derogatory way while she was being a snotty brat? ... ok

Ok people, in last week's podcast Damon and Carlton jokingly mentioned that "there might be ONE mythological answer buried in the frivolity of the Nikki and Paulo episode".

Thanks sickotriz, it doesn't seem like we should be looking for some big groundbreaking event then. And it doesn't mean that something we saw in this episode might make sense further down the road after we learn more.

Probably nobody is reading all these posts, but now that I've watched it several times with my classes, here are the things that got revealed (and there are a WHOLE lot of them):
1. We now know how Shannon knew about the guns, the case, and the key on Jack's neck when she went to shoot Locke near the end of S. 1.
2. We now know that Ben intentionally manipulates people (we've suspected this but it's always best to have a true confession of it) and we should not believe anything he says to anyone, ever.
3. We now know that Others moved the Beechcraft on top of the Pearl. Ben said to Juliet as they walked in (while Paulo was hiding in the bathroom), "Have someone move the plane to cover that." Words to that effect.
4. Josh Holloway's acting is getting monochromatic. How many times did he heave the same throaty heavy sigh in this episode?
5. There was a plan to get Jack to Zoo Island to do the operation.
6. The list that Bea gave Michael wasn't full of people that had some special thing about them. It wasn't the same one that Pickett referred to, certainly, because Jack was on Bea's list. Jack's presence on the island, therefore, may be nothing more than happenstance. (After all, he argued his way onto the plane. Many of the other Losties got put on the plane by someone else.)
7. There wasn't anything in there about Walt being taken so they could get Jack. Apparently some viewers mis-heard that conversation. It was pure accident that Michael came for Walt--it didn't seem at all, from what Ben said in the Pearl, that Walt was the origin of the string of events that led to where Jack is now. Michael went after his son, and happened to get caught.

One thing that was learned that I didnt see anyone mention was that we know when Ethan arrived at the crash site. It was late at night. How long did Ben say it would take to get there? And what time did the plane crash?

This is going out on a limb but could the one mythological question that was answered be that maybe Christian was not actually dead but had been bitten by one of those spiders to make him look like he was ? Are there any spiders like that found in Australia ? Could this be the reason jack had saw Christian in the jungle ? Was he bitten by a spider like Nikki and Paulo? Artz said that it if one of those spiders had bitten someone, it would even fool a doctor to where it would appear that the person is dead. If this is the case then it would be a shocker because Christian would really be alive and maybe be living among the Others or a prisoner of the Others, just like Cooper.

7. There wasn't anything in there about Walt being taken so they could get Jack. Apparently some viewers mis-heard that conversation. It was pure accident that Michael came for Walt--it didn't seem at all, from what Ben said in the Pearl, that Walt was the origin of the string of events that led to where Jack is now. Michael went after his son, and happened to get caught.

I'm going to have to call you out on this one. When we see Juliet and Ben in The Peral, this is before Boone died, early in season one. This tells us a lot of things, I'm not even sure I've figured out all of them yet. Anyways, one of the things it tells us is that The Others were gonna use Michael to get Jack. How did they get Michael to bring Jack across The Island?? Walt! One can also infer, from this episode, the it was not in fact Walt talking to Michael on the computer, but an Other (probably Ben) sending the messages. This raises the question if whether or not The Others actually had an interest in Walt himself, or just used him as leverage to get Michael (I'm not going to delve into that here). One other thing that stands out to me, is that Ben and Juliet were monitoring Jack while he was in the caves. This is huge. The Others have been observing the losties for a long time. And, if there were security cameras in the caves, which is not a Dharma station, could there be other cameras elsewhere?? By the beach camp?? Even throughout the jungle???

A lot was revealed in this epi.

Ben and Juliette were in cahoots to manipulate Jack -- as we suspected.

I think the big thing was that smokey manifests like Karma. Nikki throws a spide on Paulo. Smokey takes the form of a spider to exact revenge on Nikki.

Boone was dead and the plane had fallen already when Paolo was at the Pearl. Ben saw the hatch door was open and asked who left it open. Juliet mentioned that Tom had been there a few days ago. Ben then told her to have Tom move the plane so that it would cover the hatch door.

The plane did not naturally fall on the hatch door - it was moved there after Paolo left and that is where Eko and Locke found it.

This is going out on a limb but could the one mythological question that was answered be that maybe Christian was not actually dead but had been bitten by one of those spiders to make him look like he was ? Are there any spiders like that found in Australia ? Could this be the reason jack had saw Christian in the jungle ? Was he bitten by a spider like Nikki and Paulo? Artz said that it if one of those spiders had bitten someone, it would even fool a doctor to where it would appear that the person is dead. If this is the case then it would be a shocker because Christian would really be alive and maybe be living among the Others or a prisoner of the Others, just like Cooper.

this is it, I posted the same in another few treads and I am so happy somebody see it the same way! :) also does anybody else think that the spiders, eight hours paralysis and you look dead, could be connected with Christian not been dead but also with the girl Eko was investigating that wake up from being dead..that shew is connected with the psychic that conviced Clare to get on the plane??

Also - mark my words - Tom is the gay character.

Remember how he laughed when Kate said she wasn't going to shower in front of him then added "you're not my type"? Any man who says that about Kate can't be heterosexual! :)

Christian Shepard is dead (or at least was dead...). His heart failed when he went on a massive bender after being told he couldn't see his daughter (Claire). An autopsy had been preformed to confirm the cause of death.

This episode told us nothing of Walt.

Follow the chronology, when is talking about using Michael they already have Walt, and probably already have Michael.

The dumbest thing is that Juilet is wrong, had they just approached the Losties and asked Jack would have done the surgery.

-Exodus

This episode told us nothing of Walt.

Follow the chronology, when is talking about using Michael they already have Walt, and probably already have Michael.

The dumbest thing is that Juilet is wrong, had they just approached the Losties and asked Jack would have done the surgery.

-Exodus

Sorry dude but you're wrong about this one. When we see Ben and Juliet, the plane is still in the canopy. Which means Boone is still alive. Which means that the raft hasn't left yet. Which means Walt and Michael are still on the beach. This is exactly why this revelation about The Others' plans is so significant.

Wait; I take it back; I guess the plane had already fallen. Even so, Paulo still could have visited The Pearl inbetween Boone's death and the launch of the raft. It actually looks like this is likely based upon Jezz1226's post (a couple posts down).

A lot was revealed in this epi.

Ben and Juliette were in cahoots to manipulate Jack -- as we suspected.

I think the big thing was that smokey manifests like Karma. Nikki throws a spide on Paulo. Smokey takes the form of a spider to exact revenge on Nikki.

I think that smokey taking the form of a spider is purely speculation at this point. Especially when we have the scene where Arzt says that the female's spider's pheromones will attract males of the species like crazy.

Boone was dead and the plane had fallen already when Paolo was at the Pearl. Ben saw the hatch door was open and asked who left it open. Juliet mentioned that Tom had been there a few days ago. Ben then told her to have Tom move the plane so that it would cover the hatch door.

The plane did not naturally fall on the hatch door - it was moved there after Paolo left and that is where Eko and Locke found it.

I missed this line of dialogue, but this totally makes sense. Thanks for pointing it out for those that are getting it mixed up. So, I wonder if when Ben said they would "use Michael", did they already have him, or were they going to use the computer to communicate with him? Or, was it before Walt was even abducted, like the previous poster just said? If it was before Walt was abducted, they were taking a pretty big chance at "using Michael" by leaving him in the ocean to die.

I think that smokey taking the form of a spider is purely speculation at this point. Especially when we have the scene where Arzt says that the female's spider's pheromones will attract males of the species like crazy.



I missed this line of dialogue, but this totally makes sense. Thanks for pointing it out for those that are getting it mixed up. So, I wonder if when Ben said they would "use Michael", did they already have him, or were they going to use the computer to communicate with him?


Pikki find the Pearl station.

Then they find the diamonds, because timeline wise, the scene with Kate finding the guns, and the high tides would have been WTCMB. Thats 22 days into being lost.


27-28 Days after the crash Chaz kills Ethan.

39 Days after the crash, Boone falls in the airplane.

sometime here where Paulo hide the diamonds and Ben and Juliet enter Pearl.


Hatch discovered by Eko and Locke and get the Airplane off the hatch. That was 64 days after the crash. Ben had escpaed the day before.

65 or 66 days after that the A-team gets captured after being set up by Micheal.

71 Days after crash Locke, Eko Desmond and Pikki go back to the Pearl (Paulo gets back diamonds)


The Pearl Station was not connected by tunnels. It was an observation station and that seemed to end up being an experiment for the people actually IN it. Otherwise the log books would have gone somewhere. I doubt that Dharma would link it up to the other hatches as it would increase the possiblity for failure of the experiment by having people from other hatches find them by walking down the tunnels.

The day that Ben, Juliet and Paulo where in the hatch can bve deduced by a couple of obervations.

#1. It had to be after Ethan had died. Ethan was originally set to do the surgery.

#2. It would have been after the Losties had found the Swan.

#3. It would have been before Locke and Eko found the hatch, as the plane was moved ONTO the hatch...presumably by Tom.

#4. It would have to have before Ben was "captured" by the Losties.

So it must have been around Day 48.

This means that it was the Others that tricked Mike on the computer, and had set up a very long con.

And if this is true, then the Others knew about the Swan, and knew how to control it.

Same with the Pearl.

Same with the Flame.

Christian Shepard is dead (or at least was dead...). His heart failed when he went on a massive bender after being told he couldn't see his daughter (Claire). An autopsy had been preformed to confirm the cause of death.
Not only that the spiders only kept you paralyzed for about 8 hours, it would have worn off well before the island.

Boone was dead and the plane had fallen already when Paolo was at the Pearl. Ben saw the hatch door was open and asked who left it open. Juliet mentioned that Tom had been there a few days ago. Ben then told her to have Tom move the plane so that it would cover the hatch door.

The plane did not naturally fall on the hatch door - it was moved there after Paolo left and that is where Eko and Locke found it.


This is what I was thinking as well, but after rewatching part of the episode it doesn't work out timewise. The day Paulo was in the Pearl hatch hiding the diamonds was (approx) 31 days after the crash, Boone died on day 41 (according to Sledgeweb's timeline). If your wondering how I got the 31 number (I know this confusing sounding when I type it all at, so please just bear with me): the plane crash was 80 days ago according to Exposes (from when they were in the airport). 48 Days Ago (from Exposes) Shannon confronts Kate about the case with Pikki there, assuming that Pikki went to the waterfall that day and that Paulo hid the diamonds the day after he found them (both of which I think are fairly safe assumptions, even if these events didn't happen that day and the next I really doubt it took place 11 days later which it would require to fit the timeline) that means Paulo was in the Pearl 49 days ago, which is 31 days after the plane crash.

As far as I can tell this leaves a few options
(1) I've screwed up my math somewhere and the numbers are wrong
(2) Continuity Error
(3) The Others had something to do with the beechcraft falling to cover the hatch door
(4) Complete coincidence that the beachcraft fell after Ben talked to Juliet about it falling
(5) The Island somehow gave the Others what they wanted (the beechcraft covering the hatch door)
(6) Some sort of time anomaly/alternate timeline

Apparently during rewatching I missed the on-screen date marker for when Paulo was burying the diamonds, this puts that incident and then the hiding in the Pearl as being after Boone died and after the Swan was found. Apparently Paulo waited 16 days from finding the diamonds till trying to bury then hiding them in the Pearl (which I still have a little trouble with but, the on-screen day count confirms it)

Transcripts from the podcast:
(I hope I don't have to spoiler these since 1. the shows been aired and 2. I dunno how to)

Just to let you know to spoiler font something just type it and then highlight the text and press the S button (its above the text window next to where you can change the font and stuff) :)

[QUOTE=wedestroymyths;1457502]Honestly, this is the first time I've felt the exact opposite...This season we've had an indication that Ben could've left the island to get surgery until the hatch exploded,[QUOTE]

I don't know about that. We know they communicated with the outside world, but is there any proof, after Juliet arrived, that they could leave the island? I think we'll be seeing Michael and Walt again.

Also, I think the fact that Juliet was barefoot is a big deal. It means that they didn't get to the Pearl above ground and it proably wasn't a long walk if she walked at all. Very interesting.

Isn't the mythological question where did Nikki and Paulo come from? I for one think they weren't on the plane in the Pilot episode -- and no, not because they weren't yet cast. I think that during the EMP Desmond went back and time and changed one tiny action, causing a butterfly effect that put them on the Plane. It's confusing, but I think Sawyer is always asking who Nikki is because to him she was never among the survivors. Whatever Desmond did affected everyone on the original island, but perhaps not The Others' island. I think this is why it's considered a big mythology episode -- Desmond CAN change the future.

Now, there's a potential hole in this. Assuming flight 815 was full and now Nikki and Paulo are among the survivors, what two survivors are now NOT among them?

I'm just throwing stuff out there to see what sticks :-)

Could someone please post the exact wording that TPTB used when they said there would be a mythological question answered? I think we should make that clear before we go on a 300 page rant.

Lostpedia unfortunately doesn't have a transcript for the February 20th podcast, which is where they said this, but I just listened to it and here's what they said, word for word...

Carlton: I'm gonna ask you just one more question. "The Swan Station" by DownWithBigBrother, 27 posts in the last 90 days...
Damon: (That's very negative against big brother...)
Carlton: ..."Did the Others or Hostiles know about the Swan station and about the number-pushing, or does it not matter to them if it imploded?" I think this is a fair question to answer.
Damon: It's a very fair question. I don't think they did know.
Carlton: Yeah.
Damon: I don't think they knew about the existence of the Son-- Swan Station. For one, Kelvin is down there, continuing to push the button even before Desmond comes for all that time, well after we know that this "Purge" allegedly occured, and the Others have completely left him alone, so, if they do know about it...
Carlton: It might make some certain amount of sense, too, that if the--if there was an incident in the Swan Station and--and there was this electromagnetic anomoly and this sort of, "Chernobyl" kind of circumstance there, the Dharma guys wouldn't probably want a lot of other people to know about it. I mean, it would be a definite "need-to-know-basis" because of that kind of circumstance, wouldn't it?
Damon: Yeah, it would, and we know that in the Pearl Station they monitor the Swan Station, so it's possible that the Others found out about the Swan Station once the Oceanic survivors showed up; once Locke found the hatch.
Carlton: Right...
Damon: Um, it's possible that they were, uh, able to, to check it out but I dunno, might we be finding out about that in the next couple weeks, Carlton?
Carlton: Uhh...(sighs) we might learn a little bit more about that...
Damon: (Interesting.)
Carlton: ...absolutely, and it also seems kind of, um...
Damon: In the Nikki and Paulo flashback episode, perhaps?
Carlton: So are you saying the Nikki and Paulo flashback episode isn't all frivolity?
Damon: That it w--there might actually be some intense mythological answers buried deep within the frivolity? Yes.
Carlton: Or maybe one intense mythological answer (laughing) buried within the frivolity.
Damon: Yes, the afforementioned issue.
Carlton: Let's say one w--um...yeah! So I think that's uh, that's a good question, but, um, I think their knowledge of the Swan was pretty limited.
Damon: (sighs)
Carlton: And I think when Ben came over there and saw that these people were pushing the button every hundred-and-eight minutes, I think his skepticism is genuine.
Damon: I agree.

...wow, I didn't realize how tedious transcripting is. Somebody submit this to Lostpedia if they already have an account; I don't want it to go to waste. As a side note, isn't it a fantastic coincidence that Artz suspected the Medusa spider's venom would paralyze you for eight hours, and that's exactly (down to the minute, apparently) how long it took?

Why come up with a plan that involves kidnapping kate, sawyer, michael, walt, hurley and jack, why not just kidnap jack?

If the reason for kidnapping walt is so that michael would go after him and hopefully bring jack with him i'll be really disappointed. I always believed TPTB when they said they knew what they were doing but that is lame.

Kate isn't my type. I'm more a Anna Lucia guy.

Pikki find the Pearl before the plane falls.
Paulo goes back to the Pearl to hide the diamonds after Boone dies, and after the get in the Swann. Paulo hears Ben and Juliette during Season 2 when Jack is in the Swan.

Ben knew all about the Swan, Desmond and the button. They had to be watching Kelvin for years and both Kelvin and Desmond for 3 years.
Maybe the biohazard suit Kelvin wore was as much for Desmond's benefit as well as the Others. Maybe he wanted people to think that he thought there was a virus.
We all know that was just a hoax to keep people in line/in the Swan.

As a side note, isn't it a fantastic coincidence that Artz suspected the Medusa spider's venom would paralyze you for eight hours, and that's exactly (down to the minute, apparently) how long it took?

That's because... he's *drumroll* DR. Arzt! :biggrin:


Now, if he had just paid a bit more attention to the condition of that piece of dynamite...

Kate isn't my type. I'm more a Anna Lucia guy.

I'll co-sign with you on this.

Sorry dude but you're wrong about this one. When we see Ben and Juliet, the plane is still in the canopy. Which means Boone is still alive. Which means that the raft hasn't left yet. Which means Walt and Michael are still on the beach. This is exactly why this revelation about The Others' plans is so significant.

Wait; I take it back; I guess the plane had already fallen. Even so, Paulo still could have visited The Pearl inbetween Boone's death and the launch of the raft. It actually looks like this is likely based upon Jezz1226's post (a couple posts down).

Nope. Ben and Juliet are watching Jack on the Swan Station camera. The raft left before we ever went down the hatch.

Christian Shepard is dead (or at least was dead...). His heart failed when he went on a massive bender after being told he couldn't see his daughter (Claire). An autopsy had been preformed to confirm the cause of death.

where they say an autopsy had been preformed? what the dottor says to Jack in the morge is:

Doctor:The police found him in an alley in Kings Cross. Now, a tox screen showed a blood alcohol content, which for a man of his size, probably brought on myocardial infarction... a sizable, and fatal heat attack.
Jack : That's him.
a tox screen is not an autopsy, I think, but than again I am having way too much coffee today :) also:

[quote=Jezz1226;1458704] Not only that the spiders only kept you paralyzed for about 8 hours, it would have worn off well before the island.

could be, but maybe Christian being drunk could have made the effect of the spiders last longer!

...yes..way too much coffee!!:biggrin:

Well, the only answer I see is that Michael wasn't talking to Walt on the computer, but was actually baited by the others as part of Ben's plan to "use Michael to get Jack". Seems like an awfully convoluted plan though. Doesn't explain why Ben went to the hatch as a prisoner.

(Wait... maybe it does... so that Michael has a reason to go to the hatch, with the list, have a reason to shoot AL and Libby, so that the survivors are angry and go with Michael.... wait... I've gotta headache...)

I've read most of the respones to this thread, and I'm about as satified with you people's answers as I am the wirters (aka NOT AT ALL). I'm sorry, but when I hear the phrase, "intense mythological answers" I expect intensity! What do I get though? Things like why the others took Walt, or Jack/Kate/Sawyer, and people saying it that it's Pikki's backstory? I'm sorry, but that's not what I call mythological at all. I wanted answers about the powers of the island, smokey, Desmond's ability, something that is mythological, something mysical.

Nothing about that episode was insense, to say the least. The only thing that I got out of the island mythology was when the spiders appeared we heard Smokey. We already knew that Smokey and the manifestations are one and the same! We learned that in Eko's final episode!

All this episode did was repeat things we already knew, and from this point on I'm no longer listening to the official podcast. You can't believe a word that comes out of the mouths of Damon and Carlton (not to mention that they are two of the most annoying people I've ever had the pleasure of listening to)

Well, the only answer I see is that Michael wasn't talking to Walt on the computer, but was actually baited by the others as part of Ben's plan to "use Michael to get Jack". Seems like an awfully convoluted plan though. Doesn't explain why Ben went to the hatch as a prisoner.

Having Ben as a prisoner is what gets the Others to use Michael. Michael must trade Ben for Walt. Yes, it's convoluted, but its the nature of the Long Con I guess.

Gotcha! Thanks!

Maybe Christian was intentionally given the spider venom to make Jack think he is dead. The line about the paralysis fooling a doctor was said for a reason. It could have all been a set up. If I recall, Christian was wearing tennis shoes when Jack saw him the the jungle. That's very odd and implies that he was real.

where they say an autopsy had been preformed? what the dottor says to Jack in the morge is:

Doctor:The police found him in an alley in Kings Cross. Now, a tox screen showed a blood alcohol content, which for a man of his size, probably brought on myocardial infarction... a sizable, and fatal heat attack.
Jack : That's him.
a tox screen is not an autopsy, I think, but than again I am having way too much coffee today :) also:

[quote=Jezz1226;1458704] Not only that the spiders only kept you paralyzed for about 8 hours, it would have worn off well before the island.

could be, but maybe Christian being drunk could have made the effect of the spiders last longer!

...yes..way too much coffee!!:biggrin:

Juliet has the autopsy report sitting right in front of her at the end of A Tale of Two Cities.

I just read this entire thread and I am surprised that nobody noticed Locke's statement of "things buried on this island don't stay buried"....VERY interesting.

I always watch each epi 2 or 3 times (My 7 year old daughter and I have watched "Tricia Tanaka is Dead" like 10 times!!!) so I'll have to wait until tomorrow night when I can watch with my pause button but that statement stood out to me.

Could it mean that nobody actually dies on the island...or at least we'll find that Pikki is not dead?
Not to mention that 3 dead (and buried) characters were brought back for this epi...hum?

Once again, I watch the first time with a broad view and then watch the second time for more hidden clues but Locke always has something interesting to say in regard to the Island and how he knows the Island.

Any thoughts about Locke's statement?

Juliet has the autopsy report sitting right in front of her at the end of A Tale of Two Cities.

Forgot about that! thanks for remind me! :)
but then again if the Others are behind the fact to make us believe that Christian is dead for a reason we do not know yet (and if this is the case who else could have plotted this? of course is them) then of course she will say this to Jack, to make him still believe is father is dead!

note to self: must stop drinking coffee for today...

Forgot about that! thanks for remind me! :)
but then again if the Others are behind the fact to make us believe that Christian is dead for a reason we do not know yet (and if this is the case who else could have plotted this? of course is them) then of course she will say this to Jack, to make him still believe is father is dead!

note to self: must stop drinking coffee for today...


I agree with you Notoneofus ! :) Just because Juliet had said she had the autopsy report of Christian doesn't really mean that she did. The Others are master liars and manipulators. They want to make things appear one way but in fact it's not. They can pull off a charade without even blinking. If they truly wanted Christian or Jack (for that matter), they could have planned to "kill" Christian and that is why he is on the Island. Who knows, they may have drugged him and it had the same effects as the medusa spider. We know that Juliet's ex~husband was "killed" to bring Juliet to the Island, why not Christian for Jack ?

Christian Shepard is dead (or at least was dead...). His heart failed when he went on a massive bender after being told he couldn't see his daughter (Claire). An autopsy had been preformed to confirm the cause of death.


Yyyyyeah. Might those be the same people in the morgue when Juliet's husband was hit by a bus? :shifty1:
100%
I just read this entire thread and I am surprised that nobody noticed Locke's statement of "things buried on this island don't stay buried"....VERY interesting.

I always watch each epi 2 or 3 times (My 7 year old daughter and I have watched "Tricia Tanaka is Dead" like 10 times!!!) so I'll have to wait until tomorrow night when I can watch with my pause button but that statement stood out to me.

Could it mean that nobody actually dies on the island...or at least we'll find that Pikki is not dead?
Not to mention that 3 dead (and buried) characters were brought back for this epi...hum?

Once again, I watch the first time with a broad view and then watch the second time for more hidden clues but Locke always has something interesting to say in regard to the Island and how he knows the Island.

Any thoughts about Locke's statement?


Maybe, but I got the sense throughout this episode that TPTB were responding to a lot of things on these message boards. The Locke comment did strike me as unusual, but then, maybe it's just an attempt to "manipulate" us Lostaholics. There were quite a few really humorous, but very subtle, references to past theories and message board issues. The whole "monster" thing, for instance, and the reference to it by Paulo as a dinosaur. When the first episode showed, and the message boards lit up with guesses, "dinosaur" came up quite often.

Then the discussion about what killed them--poison (Michael before he shipped out on the raft), polar bears, etc. Lots of things have transpired over the past few seasons, and this episode did a nifty job of resurrecting some of them and tying up a few loose ends.
100%
I just read this entire thread and I am surprised that nobody noticed Locke's statement of "things buried on this island don't stay buried"....VERY interesting.

I always watch each epi 2 or 3 times (My 7 year old daughter and I have watched "Tricia Tanaka is Dead" like 10 times!!!) so I'll have to wait until tomorrow night when I can watch with my pause button but that statement stood out to me.

Could it mean that nobody actually dies on the island...or at least we'll find that Pikki is not dead?
Not to mention that 3 dead (and buried) characters were brought back for this epi...hum?

Once again, I watch the first time with a broad view and then watch the second time for more hidden clues but Locke always has something interesting to say in regard to the Island and how he knows the Island.

Any thoughts about Locke's statement?


Maybe, but I got the sense throughout this episode that TPTB were responding to a lot of things on these message boards. The Locke comment did strike me as unusual, but then, maybe it's just an attempt to "manipulate" us Lostaholics. Or, a reference to the first hatch that Locke and Boone dug up.

There were quite a few really humorous, but very subtle, references to past theories and message board issues. The whole "monster" thing, for instance, and the reference to it by Paulo as a dinosaur. When the first episode showed, and the message boards lit up with guesses, "dinosaur" came up quite often.

Then the discussion about what killed them--poison (Michael before he shipped out on the raft), polar bears, etc. Lots of things have transpired over the past few seasons, and this episode did a nifty job of resurrecting some of them and tying up a few loose ends.
100%
Nope. Ben and Juliet are watching Jack on the Swan Station camera. The raft left before we ever went down the hatch.

Boone/plane/Ben-Juliet-conversation timeline:

-Boone falls in the Beachcraft.
-Paolo and Nikki find the hatch, knock the jams out, and open it, but don't go down.
-Paolo revisits the hatch and gets down inside; Ben and Juliet come down and THE VERY FIRST THING WE HEAR BEN SAYING CLEARLY is "Who left that open?"
Juliet: "Tom was down here last week."
Ben: "Get someone to push the plane over and cover it up." (In other words, the plane is where it initially fell, NOT on the hatch.)
-Locke and Ecko discover (via Ecko and Locke's joint dreams) the hatch in the middle of the meadow where the Beachcraft lays (again, where it initially fell--could not possibly have fallen on the hatch when Boone was in it, in other words).
-Locke and Sayid later revisit the hatch and have to move the plane out of the way.

I remember the message board when they first moved the plane. Lit up by a "how did the plane get on the hatch" discussion. As with several other loose ends from previous seasons, that one got answered last night.
100%
I'm going to have to call you out on this one. When we see Juliet and Ben in The Peral, this is before Boone died, early in season one. This tells us a lot of things, I'm not even sure I've figured out all of them yet. Anyways, one of the things it tells us is that The Others were gonna use Michael to get Jack. How did they get Michael to bring Jack across The Island?? Walt! One can also infer, from this episode, the it was not in fact Walt talking to Michael on the computer, but an Other (probably Ben) sending the messages. This raises the question if whether or not The Others actually had an interest in Walt himself, or just used him as leverage to get Michael (I'm not going to delve into that here). One other thing that stands out to me, is that Ben and Juliet were monitoring Jack while he was in the caves. This is huge. The Others have been observing the losties for a long time. And, if there were security cameras in the caves, which is not a Dharma station, could there be other cameras elsewhere?? By the beach camp?? Even throughout the jungle???


I'm not so sure about this as you. It seems pretty far-fetched to think that taking Walt would lead to getting Michael would lead to getting Jack. We've heard several times over the past few seasons that Walt Is Special. I still completely subscribe to the idea that Walt was initially taken to test on.

Michael's subsequent efforts to find Walt came about as pure happenstance for the Others.

Even when Ben and Juliet were talking in the Pearl, it was clear that Ben was JUST AT THAT MOMENT making up the plan to use Michael (whom they'd already caught).
100%
this is it, I posted the same in another few treads and I am so happy somebody see it the same way! :) also does anybody else think that the spiders, eight hours paralysis and you look dead, could be connected with Christian not been dead but also with the girl Eko was investigating that wake up from being dead..that shew is connected with the psychic that conviced Clare to get on the plane??


Yeah, I'm completely with you on this one. It'd be pretty hard to convince me that, if Arzt collected some of the island's creatures, the Others would have a much more thorough knowledge of the island's natural inhabitants.

-Boone falls in the Beachcraft.
-Paolo and Nikki find the hatch, knock the jams out, and open it, but don't go down.
-Paolo revisits the hatch and gets down inside; Ben and Juliet come down and THE VERY FIRST THING WE HEAR BEN SAYING CLEARLY is "Who left that open?"
Juliet: "Tom was down here last week."
Ben: "Get someone to push the plane over and cover it up." (In other words, the plane is where it initially fell, NOT on the hatch.)
-Locke and Ecko discover (via Ecko and Locke's joint dreams) the hatch in the middle of the meadow where the Beachcraft lays (again, where it initially fell--could not possibly have fallen on the hatch when Boone was in it, in other words).
-Locke and Sayid later revisit the hatch and have to move the plane out of the way.


This time line fails at the first entry. Paulo specifically refused to climb up to the plane when Nikki told him to for the same reason Boone shouldn't have--it fell. This when they first found the Pearl.

Turns out Soylent Green is people

Ok people, in last week's podcast Damon and Carlton jokingly mentioned that "there might be ONE mythological answer buried in the frivolity of the Nikki and Paulo episode".


My money is on the pouch containing the diamonds. I think it was the pouch found with Adam and Eve in the caves, and gives validation to the time loop theories. Paulo and Nikki will be carried to the caves, and placed their as Adam and Eve with the pouch, as a hint for the Losties in a future time itteration. Which means Paulo and Nikki are now also buried truth. :biggrin:

I agree with you Notoneofus ! :) Just because Juliet had said she had the autopsy report of Christian doesn't really mean that she did. The Others are master liars and manipulators. They want to make things appear one way but in fact it's not. They can pull off a charade without even blinking. If they truly wanted Christian or Jack (for that matter), they could have planned to "kill" Christian and that is why he is on the Island. Who knows, they may have drugged him and it had the same effects as the medusa spider. We know that Juliet's ex~husband was "killed" to bring Juliet to the Island, why not Christian for Jack ?


Yeah, I'm completely with you on this one. It'd be pretty hard to convince me that, if Arzt collected some of the island's creatures, the Others would have a much more thorough knowledge of the island's natural inhabitants.

:) Thats was i was trying to put across! thanks!
In this episode I think that one of the most important things are the spiders, that will explain the girl that Eko was investigating (what was really the point of telling us that story otherwise?) and the Christian mistery (the body not in the coffin is been bugging me from season 1, also I would love the fact that he is still alive!:) )
All of this is connected with the Others and the Island, all of this is their doing, why the losties are there and all the strange connections etc. and also will answer the question why Pikki will became iconic to the show, because is thanks to them that we now know that you could look dead but you are not, and also how the Others are probably much more powerful than we think

I think it will have something to do with the monster sound with the spiders.

I didn't think it was the monster, I thought it was the sound of lots of spiders coming- same sound as the spider scene in Harry Potter...

I didn't think it was the monster, I thought it was the sound of lots of spiders coming- same sound as the spider scene in Harry Potter...

What if the sound of the mass of spiders walking IS that rattling sound we hear when the mini-smoke monster usually flies by? Maybe they are attracted to it for some reason? Maybe they are running from it?

That sound is the monster... It's been confirmed that that is the sound that Rose found to be "so familiar" back in season 1. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I think they said it's the sound of the receipt machine in a New York Taxicab.

Now, whether the monster is the spiders... I think that is left open to interpretation. Arzt did say that the pheromones would attract other spiders.

Okay am I the only one confused about the timeline? I can't seem to figure out if Paulo, Ben, and Juliet were in the Pearl before or after Boone died. Because the implications are huge if Boone hadn't died yet; as some posters have stated, they could've been observing Jack in the Caves not the Swan. Can someone confirm that this is not so? There have been posts with timelines, but they're all different. Can we know for sure? It's just bothering me.

Medusa Spider = mythological

Okay am I the only one confused about the timeline? I can't seem to figure out if Paulo, Ben, and Juliet were in the Pearl before or after Boone died. Because the implications are huge if Boone hadn't died yet; as some posters have stated, they could've been observing Jack in the Caves not the Swan. Can someone confirm that this is not so? There have been posts with timelines, but they're all different. Can we know for sure? It's just bothering me.

It was long after Boone died. The scene that Ben and Juliet see on the Pearl's monitor is a scene where Jack sits next to unconscious Sawyer's bunkbed and talks to Kate, taken from season 2 episode 9 I think. Might be episode 10, I'm not sure. It's definitely in the hatch and not in the caves. Hope that helps figuring out the timeline, I myself have long given up on that and listen to what other people figure out about it :biggrin:

Okay am I the only one confused about the timeline? I can't seem to figure out if Paulo, Ben, and Juliet were in the Pearl before or after Boone died. Because the implications are huge if Boone hadn't died yet; as some posters have stated, they could've been observing Jack in the Caves not the Swan. Can someone confirm that this is not so? There have been posts with timelines, but they're all different. Can we know for sure? It's just bothering me.

I don't think there is a problem with the time line here.

-Paulo and Nikki walk by Pearl Hatch and don't go in
-Boone and the plane land on Pearl Hatch
-Locke and Eko visit Pearl Hatch and move plane
-Paulo visits Pearl Hatch again, sees Ben and Juliet
-Paulo, Nikki, Locke and Sayid visit Pearl Hatch again (wasn't Desmond there?)

This is the time line as I understand it.

The mythological answer is information that leads you to realize how Christian Shepherd can be alive and on the island.

Remember the girl that "came back to life" in the episode "?" ? well if she was bitten by this spider then she would appear dead even to a doctor for a period of 8 hours.

If Christian was bitten (and I don't believe they did anything to his body in Aus) then he would've appeared dead and woke up on the island.

The events that lead to how a spider only found on the island would be there to bite Christian and the girl takes more elaborate theorizing and I won't go into it here.

I've just gone back and had a look at the location of Jack when when Ben was spying on him, it appears that he is in the Swan station.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v113/genxxx/vlcsnap-4512859.png

I don't think there is a problem with the time line here.

-Paulo and Nikki walk by Pearl Hatch and don't go in
-Boone and the plane land on Pearl Hatch
-Locke and Eko visit Pearl Hatch and move plane
-Paulo visits Pearl Hatch again, sees Ben and Juliet
-Paulo, Nikki, Locke and Sayid visit Pearl Hatch again (wasn't Desmond there?)

This is the time line as I understand it.

That's almost it. Except Paulo hides the diamonds in the Pearl before Locke and Eko were there. Ben tells one of the Others to move the plane to cover the hatch. That's the position Locke and Eko find it in when they see the ? in the grass.

I don't think there is a problem with the time line here.

-Paulo and Nikki walk by Pearl Hatch and don't go in
-Boone and the plane land on Pearl Hatch
-Locke and Eko visit Pearl Hatch and move plane
-Paulo visits Pearl Hatch again, sees Ben and Juliet
-Paulo, Nikki, Locke and Sayid visit Pearl Hatch again (wasn't Desmond there?)

This is the time line as I understand it.


When Nikki and Paolo get to the Pearl hatch, Paolo uses a rock to loosen it. Doesn't John do the same thing when he opens the pearl hatch with Eko?
That's a pretty tight fit. And kinda similar scene of opening the hatch - if I remember correctly - which I may not :)

I found a lot of the Nikki and Paulo flashback scenes on the island quiet similar to the realtime scenes of previous episodes - not only the obvious of the locations - but even some of the dialogue. I believe this epi had a lot of inconsistancies with previous epis and at the same time mirrored many previous scenes and story lines.

I've just gone back and had a look at the location of Jack when when Ben was spying on him, it appears that he is in the Swan station.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v113/genxxx/vlcsnap-4512859.png
GenX and div2n thanks for responding to my post. In the pic it does indeed look like Jack is in the Swan. Really IMO the only clear evidence for sure seems to be the chair he's sitting in, I don't think that was at the caves. Anyhow I think I agree with you but am still just a tiny bit unsure. We'll probably get some kind of confirmation on this later;)

Christian was dead alot longer then 8 hours.
Several days in fact.
A