I don't know anything about spider venom, but if the paralysis lasted 8 hours, and Nikki was bitten a couple minutes after Paulo, shouldn't he have woken up before she did?

Now, granted, it wouldn't be an exact 8 hour window for paralysis. However, I would imagine that since paulo weighs more and was bitten earlier, he should've woken up before they got buried alive.

Any entomologists out there that can weigh in on this? :rolleyes:

I don't know anything about spider venom, but if the paralysis lasted 8 hours, and Nikki was bitten a couple minutes after Paulo, shouldn't he have woken up before she did?

Now, granted, it wouldn't be an exact 8 hour window for paralysis. However, I would imagine that since paulo weighs more and was bitten earlier, he should've woken up before they got buried alive.

Any entomologists out there that can weigh in on this? :rolleyes:

Well I don't know if it makes any difference but Paulo got bit in the neck while Nikki in the ankle or something.

I doubt eight hours had passed - it wasn't that long in between and they are afraid to leave dead bodies lie around because of the wild boars that raided the camp in season 1

I think it would matter a lot about how substantial of a bite it was. Since Paulo got bit on the neck, and Nikki on the ankle... it's possible Paulo got more venom.

Either way it's not an exact science.

Not to mention that it was more dramatic for HER to open her eyes first--in time to see the sand falling atop her. (Dem writers know what dere doin'! :D)

I don't know anything about spider venom, but if the paralysis lasted 8 hours, and Nikki was bitten a couple minutes after Paulo, shouldn't he have woken up before she did?

I actually thought about the same thing, but there are just too many variables. Gender, size, that particular spiders amount of venom, etc. And, like you mentioned, the 8 hour time frame is not exact, but probably an average.

Well, obviously the female spider has more of a bite to her than the male spider; ergo, Paulo got the worst of it. This is well known to television entomologists studying this particular species of television spiders.

I thought Paolo was bitten again and again, because "every male on the island" was swarming. Nikki was only bitten once and then fled to the beach when she realized what was happening. It was my impression Paolo really was dead.

I thought Paolo was bitten again and again, because "every male on the island" was swarming. Nikki was only bitten once and then fled to the beach when she realized what was happening. It was my impression Paolo really was dead.

That actually makes a lot of sense, I hadn't thought about paulo being left there while they swarmed around him.

That actually makes a lot of sense, I hadn't thought about paulo being left there while they swarmed around him.


Ooooh..... grisly.

I thought Paolo was bitten again and again, because "every male on the island" was swarming. Nikki was only bitten once and then fled to the beach when she realized what was happening. It was my impression Paolo really was dead.

This is exactly what I was thinking. Paulo was laying on the ground where all the spiders were and Nikki ran off. Paulo probably was bitten multiple times.

That actually makes a lot of sense, I hadn't thought about paulo being left there while they swarmed around him.

That gets me thinking- Sawyer, Charlie, or Hurley (can't remember who was at the scene) could've got bitten as well. Obviously they didn't, but they carried Paulo to the beach to bury him, who's to say a stray spider or two weren't nearby? It really makes you think that they could've easily been bitten but really lucked out.

I would assume Paulo didn't get bit again since he was paralized and was not moving, No threat no bite or sting. However, Paulo got it in the neck. Nikki got it in the leg, she ran which pushed the venon into her system. But the time between the two bites was only minutes. The female probably has more of a kick than the male spider I would think as that is usually how it works. Anyway, gonzo Nikki the real villian here got ehr just reward of just waking up to see herself unable to scream and being burried alive!!!

Shame that Desmond couldn't see it coming. If Nikki survived the writers could have exploited teh movie star on the island like in Gillian Island. That way when TPTB needed another filler EP like this one ... Well....

the really creepy thing about them getting buried is that paralyzed doesn't mean they were unconscience. They knew they were getting buried.

Yeah, but being buried alive in sand would actually kill you pretty quickly.

Indeed, you would suffocate in about eight minutes... pretty terrible way to go, but there are certainly worse... the marshall springs to mind.

I think it was better that Nikki opened her eyes because she was the more conniving of the two.

Here are two interesting things I thought of:

1. If Nikki didn't bury the diamonds, maybe she would've had just enough time to tell Sawyer and Hurley that she was paralyzed and not dead.

2. If Nikki didn't leave the jungle, maybe she wouldn't have been found and eventually wake up 8 hours later.

does anyone know if the "medusa spider" is even a real spider? i just googled around and couldn't find anything. so did the writers really invent a species?

It was fate, The Island, and Smokey all conspiring against them.

i can understand their heartrate dropping but what about their breathing? theyd need to get sufficient oxygen or go brain damaged. which the Losties should have noticed lung movement or something going on. seems kind of far-fetched but this is a comic book written for TV so go figure.

I'm not sure, but I don't think that paralysis wears off all at the same time. I'm sure that you regain movement in some parts of your body before others. Hence, she was able to open her eyes, possibly in a last-ditch attempt to tell the Losties that she was alive, without being able to do anything else. What an awful way to go...

Well, obviously the female spider has more of a bite to her than the male spider; ergo, Paulo got the worst of it. This is well known to television entomologists studying this particular species of television spiders.

I don't know how everyone missed it, but I think this sums it up nicely. I really enjoyed the episode, but had to look past the spider thing, I suspended my disbelief, and I feel better for it.

much better.

-bagua

i can understand their heartrate dropping but what about their breathing? theyd need to get sufficient oxygen or go brain damaged. which the Losties should have noticed lung movement or something going on. seems kind of far-fetched but this is a comic book written for TV so go figure.

That's what my girlfriend and I both said. Jeez, hold a mirror under their noses or something!

i can understand their heartrate dropping but what about their breathing? theyd need to get sufficient oxygen or go brain damaged. which the Losties should have noticed lung movement or something going on. seems kind of far-fetched but this is a comic book written for TV so go figure.

None of the remaining Losties are trained doctors, so it could be believed they thought they were poisoned / killed by the monster. I bet if Jack was there, they wouldn't have died.

Well, obviously the female spider has more of a bite to her than the male spider; ergo, Paulo got the worst of it. This is well known to television entomologists studying this particular species of television spiders.

LOL Lockesmithe!

i can understand their heartrate dropping but what about their breathing? theyd need to get sufficient oxygen or go brain damaged. which the Losties should have noticed lung movement or something going on. seems kind of far-fetched but this is a comic book written for TV so go figure.I'm no expert here, but things like this might be why people used mirrors over a person's mouth to detect breathing and make sure someone is absolutely dead. I'm surprised that no one on the island thought to do that.

None of the remaining Losties are trained doctors, so it could be believed they thought they were poisoned / killed by the monster. I bet if Jack was there, they wouldn't have died.

I was bothered that they didn't get the one medical professional they do have, Bernard, to check them out. Dentists may specialize in teeth but they are trained in basic anatomy.
100%
Okay, so if the paralysis doesn't wear off all at once, what are the chances of them surviving? Like she had already opened her eyes. What if her arms were next? Could she get out? Or would sand have already packed into her nose and subsequently her lungs? How does this work?

Also, I don't think Paolo was dead. No one who's really dead gets that many close-ups. They totally overused that device. I knew something was up.

As for the spiders...

They used a real Genus (Latrodectus), which is the same genus as some of our more favorite spider friends, the widows. The species, however, was made up (unless Arnzt got it wrong, there is no L. regina on any arachnid databases/journal articles I have found thus far). I almost wonder if they got a lot from their use of an obvious dart frog (genus Dendrobates or Phyllobates) instead of a tree frog (I guess you could say a typical genus is Hyla) in that other episode with Sawyer and Hugo. They are totally different, but this may not matter for a tv show i guess haha. Latrodectus spiders have a neurotoxic venom, which can have paralyzing effects. These spiders are also found around the world, including the AU/NZ area. So, this was a great choice by the writers I'd say. The significance of regina, other than being latin for "queen," eludes me.

On a side note: Arnzt knew about the species. Let's assume that the losties island is an oceanic island, and pretty damn far from the shore (not one near the mainland, which we would call a continental island). I think this is a pretty safe assumption. Makes me wonder that if these spiders are native there, then how were they discovered (especially if this island is hidden)? Arnzt had to read/hear about these species somehow, and species accounts include location information as well. Shame he died, because at least he might be able to better comment on their real location with what he's discovered there. (As in, what if the spiders were discovered on that island by DHARMA, and reported through them? It would be kinda funny if he heard of DHARMA before...).

As for male/female venom... I can better comment on snakes, but i seriously doubt a difference in real world species venom between the sexes. Is this originating from the notion that many females consume the male after mating? In some species, that's more related to the nutritional value of eating a male and the triggers it has on the development of the eggs in the female, not venom content. As for venom amount, he may have gotten more because he smashed the spider on his neck, which might have pushed in extra venom. Nikki, however, shook her leg and brushed it away. Either case, both were bitten within minutes of each other and, 8 hrs later, woke up to a visit by the sandman.. Or, sandmen rather, I think Hugo and Sawyer were both shoveling it on them.

And finally, I also think the Others may have made use of this neurotoxin in the capturing of Jack and co. If not, then much to many "pikki haters" frustration, we need Nikki at least to survive to tell the losties hey, we should use it and start knockin them out for a change.

i can understand their heartrate dropping but what about their breathing? theyd need to get sufficient oxygen or go brain damaged. which the Losties should have noticed lung movement or something going on. seems kind of far-fetched but this is a comic book written for TV so go figure.

And what about their body heat? If they were dead, they would have felt that way.

i can understand their heartrate dropping but what about their breathing? theyd need to get sufficient oxygen or go brain damaged. which the Losties should have noticed lung movement or something going on. seems kind of far-fetched but this is a comic book written for TV so go figure.

Why am I the only one who remembers Artz saying the paralysis was such that no doctor could tell the difference from death?

Everybody's waiting to jump down the writer's throat, like everyone's an expert.

Just one thought:
Wouldn't your eyes totally dry out during 8 hours of not being able to move your eyelid? So they would have been blind anyway ;-)

Here are two interesting things I thought of:

1. If Nikki didn't bury the diamonds, maybe she would've had just enough time to tell Sawyer and Hurley that she was paralyzed and not dead.

2. If Nikki didn't leave the jungle, maybe she wouldn't have been found and eventually wake up 8 hours later.

Yeah, exactly. Just stay there, find a safe place where no-one'll find you, or, dunno, write "NOT DEAD" in the sand or something!

Just one thought:
Wouldn't your eyes totally dry out during 8 hours of not being able to move your eyelid? So they would have been blind anyway ;-)
Man that is exactly what I was thinking. Plus they were laying there stairing at the sun all day.
Also here's a link http://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&lr=&q=cache:QnW_nqrtP2YJ:www3.district125.k12.il.us/chemmatt/87/87_10_t/871004t.pdf+Zombie+Powder
to a rather good article about faking death using pufferfish neurotoxin, Which is apparently
not that different from spider venom, just a lot more powerfull.

The real question is, that when they get to the other other side of the island with the 5 star resort accessable only by sea, how they will explain all of these deaths when they were mere hours from civilization...

Who's to say that Paolo didn't regain movement? If you notice when they start burying them that there is a wide shot of the fusies gathered around the grave site then a close up of the dirt being thrown on their bodies and legs then close up of Nikki's eyes opening just as dirt is thrown on her head.

Even if Paolo regained muscle control it might not have been in a part of his body as pronounced as his eyes. Also, like others have said, the closeup of Nikki made more sense since most of the episode was about her character and deviousness.

Also, I assume that the paralysis didnt include conciousness and brain activity right? So Nikki and Paulo were fully concious throughout their ordeal, including sight and hearing? That makes it even more chilling as they knew that they were going to be buried alive.

Would have been an interesting point of view if we could have heard what they were thinking.

Good point about their eyes btw.

A couple of weird inconsistancies I think. Why, if she knew she was going to be paralysed did Nikki not run onto the beach and quickly shout 'I've been bitten by a spider and it's gonna paralyse me'? Also for that matter why didn't our little CSI investigators notice the spider bites on Nikki's ankle or Paolo's neck?

just because u get paralysis from a bite that will last 8 hours, after the 8 hours, it make take a few seconds to minutes for you to get back all ur abilities

Am I the only one who thinks they might still be alive? Vincent might dig them up.

I'm no expert here, but things like this might be why people used mirrors over a person's mouth to detect breathing and make sure someone is absolutely dead. I'm surprised that no one on the island thought to do that.

It would have ruined the story. It's a TV show, for Pete's sake. The writers can make the characters do anything they want.

Ok, dont know if this has been said or not but I didnt like Paulo at all, Nikki was ok, But I have a question if you know that your going to be paralyzed for eight hours if biten by the spider then why on earth would you take time to bury the dimonds and then RUN to the beach, when you run your blood pumps harder and that gets the vemom in the system faster wouldnt it had been smarter for her to go HIDE somewhere until the effects wore off, and if in the meantime they had found Paulo wouldnt they be like hey wheres Nikki. I dont know I dont think Nikki was very smart in this eppy I dont understand why she hid the dimonds if she had her bag with her.

I keep wondering how they knew for sure it was an eight hour paralysis - other than eight being one of " the numbers" why choose 8 -
And how did Artz figure out the 8 hours?