uh... i had to write something here so it would post my spoiler ridden thoughts in secret. please read below :P

this episode did nothing to show their claimed "relevance" to the plot. they took 2 characters, integrated them poorly into the show, promised us that they "had a point" and then killed them off. they had prior knowledge of the other plane, pearl hatch, ben and juliet, michael working for ben and juliet, AND a walkie talkie used by the others. yet neither of them thought ANY of that was important to share with anyone else.

after all this, the characters were killed off (albiet in a pretty entertaining way) thus almost certainly showing us that neither had any purpose at all.

these characters were a waste of screen time.

Congratulations. You've summed up my thoughts as to Nikki and Paolo much more succitely that I've been able to articulate. :biggrin:

I have no idea what their purpose was either. The only way I was going to excuse Pikki is if they were spies for The Others, but as is, they ended up being idiots with no importance to the plot. Not cool.

I thought that originally they were supposed to help new viewers of the show "catch up," but then they got such a bad reaction that TPTB decided they were going to integrate them into the plot by using several red herrings that added up to nothing except but a waste of an episode. A kinda decent episode for any other show, but a waste for Lost. That's my take on it anyway.

You wouldn't believe the time and effort put into speculating what their relevance would be in spoilers.

We thought they were evidence of a time loop, that they didn't exist before Desmond turned the key, that they were really supposed to be dead and saw their own deaths before they happened, then we thought maybe they were working with Ethan and helped string up Charlie in a tree and take Claire, then we thought maybe Nikki was a mole that replaced Ethan, maybe they witnessed Sun's attack and they're the ones that rat out Charlie, maybe they are part of whatever other group of people there may be on the island. Turns out it's nothing. None of those. Nada. No connection. To. Anything.

There was no point.

No point, no relavance, no help. I'm just glad they're gone.

We found out that Ben purposely got caught, but other than that I don't see the point in these 2 characters.

Well, our Losties have a radio that connects them to the others that they may be able to use to spy on them with. The fact that Paulo could have been doing this up to now and all the info he knew makes him very intriguing to me. He was buddies with Ethan who was later shot- could he have sought out or tracked down the others? I hope he claws his way up or shows up in a flash back so we find out.

I thought it was pretty common knowledge that Ben wanted to be caught in order to infiltrate the Losties camp?

Well, our Losties have a radio that connects them to the others that they may be able to use to spy on them with. The fact that Paulo could have been doing this up to now and all the info he knew makes him very intriguing to me. He was buddies with Ethan who was later shot- could he have sought out or tracked down the others? I hope he claws his way up or shows up in a flash back so we find out.

sure, its fun to speculate that "maybe they will pop up and show some relevance" but unfortunately THIS was the episode to convince us that they were useless.

This seemed like a filler episode. I know some people say every lost does not have filler episodes. I just think this one was. But it was good.

I think they served a very distinct purpose. Several, actually.

First of all, they served as a reminder that everyone on the Island has stories as important as the main cast, we are just not privy to them. This is important because if, indeed, everyone was brought to the Island for a reason, that doesn't mean JUST the 12 or so main characters. It means everybody. And even if all Pikki served to do was to resolve some conflicts with the main characters, that's still a purpose.

Second, I think they were more or less a "tribute" to redshirts. I mentioned in another thread that this episode was similar to an episode of Star Trek, The Next Generation called "Lower Decks," which showed the experience of life on the Enterprise from the perspective of no-name, low-ranking officers.

I think they showed how we cannot judge people, we have no clue what is really going on with them. It seemed like both of them were just dimwits for much of the season, when they were actually conniving murderers/theives.

I think these are all worthwhile explorations.

sure, its fun to speculate that "maybe they will pop up and show some relevance" but unfortunately THIS was the episode to convince us that they were useless.


The problem is, we all already knew that. TPTB certainly didn't need to waste an episode to point out the obvious.

written in true comic book form.

The problem is, we all already knew that. TPTB certainly didn't need to waste an episode to point out the obvious.

Sorry, don't think it was a waste.

1. Sun learned about what Sawyer and Charlie did.
2. Our Losties now have one of the Other's walkie-talkies, which could come in VERY handy.
3. We know that the Others had access to the Pearl- how long did they know about the Swan? How much do they know about Desmond?
4. we got insight into Ben's character
5. The fact that we know Tom used the hatch ties up nicely with the "take off your shoes in someone else's house line from last season.
6. We got to learn more about Arzt, which isn't earth shattering, but facinating all the same. Who knew what a lech he was?
7. Now we know that Boone and Shannon weren't the most annoying twosome on the island.
8. We know who the Cobra is.
9. We were introduced to another stinking rich older gentleman- a bristish ex-pat, who knows who he could connect to.

I thought the episode was VERY entertaining and think it's totally wicked that they were buried alive.

i wasn't sure where to ask this but didn't vincent leave with walt and michael?

call me stupid.

Yeah, looks like the writers are thinning the bloated cast of two no one ever was interested in or liked in the first place.

No point, no relavance, no help. I'm just glad they're gone.
100% perfect statement

The Character were Not only Pointless
They took time away from Good Characters we actually cared about!!!
And yes 5 min. of this episode did give us a few details that were good.
But all the rest of the Episode was pointless and could have been used for showing us
More of the Regular Cast.
They should have just let these characters fade into the background,
And maybe just mention later they "Disapeared"
then we would not have to see them anymore!

You folks are impossible to please. :)

If you want to watch the same set of castaways season after season, go watch Gilligan's Island!

8. We know who the Cobra is.
:24:

And that Billy Dee Williams was playing himself! :D

i think their point is to remind us that there were many other survivors of the crash that have their own stories, and may not have pasts related to Dharma. that could imply that the plane crash wasn't a big conspiracy by Dharma to get those exact passengers on board as well.

I don't keep up on all the articles and interviews, so did the creators ever say that Nikki and Paulo's relevence would be revealed in one single ep? Might not be the end of them.


I think they served a very distinct purpose. Several, actually.

First of all, they served as a reminder that everyone on the Island has stories as important as the main cast, we are just not privy to them. This is important because if, indeed, everyone was brought to the Island for a reason, that doesn't mean JUST the 12 or so main characters. It means everybody. And even if all Pikki served to do was to resolve some conflicts with the main characters, that's still a purpose.
Sorry, don't think it was a waste.

I agree. If anything, they served to move the story along, however I think the biggest complaint isn't that they didn't serve a purpose, but that they didn't seem as pivotal to the plot as the creators suggested. I think we all expected something . . . bigger. But again, it may not be over yet.

No, they were purposeless. Pointless. Imagine if we never had had this episode... imagine if this episode was never made. Would it make a difference? No. It was a filler episode. A good episode, yeah, but still pure filler. Could as well not have been.

I agree with Remus totally useless episode. I disagree with the idea that it was a good episode.

I have to say I'm a bit stunned that the Powers That Be chose to do this episode. As I recall, the lowest-rated episode of S2 was the Rose/Bernard flashback episode--the one centered around two peripheral characters who were loved by fans. Why center an ep around two peripheral people who were loathed? Did they think we'd find it satisfying to see them die horribly? Did we need to revisit all of the dead characters? I'm sorry, that was a real wasted hour IMHO.

Pikki was a bad decision by TPTB. If they were compromised and used by the others they would have had some importance but as it turns out they were just supurfluous.

I'm on board with Mariah. I mean, how much did this episode cost to make? You had a ton of guest and returning stars. I assume there was a bit of digital trickery involved with placing Nikki and Paolo back into the scenes from Season One.

One would think that TPTB would use these expenses for a more vital episode. Unless we learn later that the episode means more than we think it does right now.

Perhaps we'll have a Zombie War or something in a few weeks...

Nikki has a connection to BILLY DEE WILLIAMS. This is huge because he IS the Cobra. How did you all miss it?

Everyone should really take a step back and learn that the producers like to joke around...

"Nothing stays burried on this island, Paulo."

I don't think Locke was just referring to the diamonds there. I think that was a clue to tell us that we're not done with Nikki a/o Paulo. We got to see their perspective of a couple of major events but there is still so much that we don't know about them. Why didn't they tell anyone about The Pearl? The Airplane? Do you really think they had a walkie talkie all that time and never turned it on? Never tried to make contact with the Others after Ethan had been so nice to them?

Come on people, this wasn't a "filler" episode. I'd think by now that you'd stop going on about how an episode is "filler" the day after you saw it, becasue it seems like in the past when episodes get labled as filler, TPTB usually make you eat your words a couple of episodes down the line. There was LOTS of important stuff going on in this episode besides Pikki, and we'll just have to see what more relevance they will play in the plot. I don't think TPTB are perfect, but I also don't think they would look at this episode and think the fans were going to love Pikki afterward. So, be patient.

uh... i had to write something here so it would post my spoiler ridden thoughts in secret. please read below :P

this episode did nothing to show their claimed "relevance" to the plot. they took 2 characters, integrated them poorly into the show, promised us that they "had a point" and then killed them off. they had prior knowledge of the other plane, pearl hatch, ben and juliet, michael working for ben and juliet, AND a walkie talkie used by the others. yet neither of them thought ANY of that was important to share with anyone else.

after all this, the characters were killed off (albiet in a pretty entertaining way) thus almost certainly showing us that neither had any purpose at all.

these characters were a waste of screen time.

I do have faith in TPTB but I really have to agree.

I suspect that TPTB added Pikki originally for some unknown reason, such as trying to expand story possibilities, etc., but decided, based on the hugely negative reaction in the fan base, to do this episode and try to get rid of them in a "useful" way.

We did learn about Ben & the Pearl Station, and it afforded an opportunity to get the Charlie/Saywer secret out of the way, plot-wise.

It also served as a nice trip down "memory lane" with Shannon/Boone/Artz, and it was kind of cool how they recapped a lot of iconic scenes from past seasons, from the airport, to the crash, etc. It really gives us perspective on where we've come from in three seasons.

Also, and I'm not sure I fully believe this yet, you might argue that there is some kind of "karma" message here: they poisoned the old rich guy, and they ended up poisoned *themselves*. You "reap what you sow", as it were.

Finally, it is ironic that, in their final episode, they FINALLY seemed like real people, with real motivation, personality, etc. And though most people liked Nikki far better than Paulo up until this episode, I think Paulo ended up coming off much better in this episode (sincere, in love, nice guy, etc.). Kind of strange, and tragic in retrospect.

Pikki, we hardly knew ye!

I think they served a very distinct purpose. Several, actually.

First of all, they served as a reminder that everyone on the Island has stories as important as the main cast, we are just not privy to them. This is important because if, indeed, everyone was brought to the Island for a reason, that doesn't mean JUST the 12 or so main characters. It means everybody. And even if all Pikki served to do was to resolve some conflicts with the main characters, that's still a purpose.

Second, I think they were more or less a "tribute" to redshirts. I mentioned in another thread that this episode was similar to an episode of Star Trek, The Next Generation called "Lower Decks," which showed the experience of life on the Enterprise from the perspective of no-name, low-ranking officers.

I think they showed how we cannot judge people, we have no clue what is really going on with them. It seemed like both of them were just dimwits for much of the season, when they were actually conniving murderers/theives.

I think these are all worthwhile explorations.

this is a great perspective! thanks! yes, i was totally surprised at how sly they both were.

We found out that Ben purposely got caught,

No not really, this was carefully omitted on both sides.
The only thing Ben said was that he wanted to use Michael, he might easily have been caught on the way back from the pearl, and instead of cutting him down Juilet chickens out and runs off when Danielle comes with her X-bow.

On the other hand, he did say he wanted to learn about Jack, and he certainly seemed to imply he had more up his sleeve.



About Nikki and Paolo i felt TPTB made a mistake when they cast them, they where too "TV pretty" and this made them seem awkward to the viewers.
Thus they where generally disliked.
To rectify TPTB decided to make this episode and kill them, while i liked the episode in itself, I strongly felt KILLING Nikki and Paolo was the wrong choice.
It basically makes them useless to us, and every thing they've done so far has been pointless.
Had they lived they might have actually done something.

Real tales of the crypt ending btw...


-Exodus

I suspect that TPTB added Pikki originally for some unknown reason, such as trying to expand story possibilities, etc., but decided, based on the hugely negative reaction in the fan base, to do this episode and try to get rid of them in a "useful" way.
I sort of agree.... but I also think it's WAY LAME. I mean, so people didn't like the way Nikki and Paulo were introduced? I certainly didn't. I thought their introduction was a complete mess. So people thought Nikki and Paulo were screechingly annoying? I certainly did, in the brief seconds I ever saw them. But so what?! Before last night, we could have combined both of their scenes into, what, 10 minutes maybe? As much as people complained about them, there really wasn't much to even discuss. So I don't see why "TPTB" had to go and panic and kill them off in one shot, essentially because their introduction was clumsy. Is it really so hard to better intregrate these characters into some of the main (or even second tier) storylines?

Whatever. I didn't hate this episode. I would have normally enjoyed it if not for these stupid games the writers play. These "characters" were a waste of talent and time.

About Nikki and Paolo i felt TPTB made a mistake when they cast them, they where too "TV pretty" and this made them seem awkward to the viewers.
Thus they where generally disliked.
I have to disagree with this kind of thinking. If you look at this cast, it is full of "TV pretty" people. I'm sorry, but no amount of stubble or messy hair is going to convince me that Jack, Kate, and Sawyer aren't "TV pretty." Not to mention Claire, Jin, Sun, Juliet, Desmond, Shannon, Boone. This is a great looking cast. I think Nikki and Paulo fit in perfectly as far as aesthetics go. I just think their introduction was SO clumsy, and the characters were made to be SO irritating right off the bat that they were instantly dislikable.

From this episode (and a couple of prior episodes) I'm taking it that Nikki and Paulo weren't on flight 815 in the Pilot episode, but yet now they are -- because of Desmond and his flashback in which he changed one of his actions, causing a butterfly effect for the rest of the world.

The clue is Sawyer's constant asking Nikki, "Who ARE you?" -- which on the surface seems to either 1) echo the viewers' sentiments, or 2) express his confusion at how a nobody among them became so important while he was on the other island. I think instead he truly doesn't recall ever having seen her, because for him she and Paulo were never on the plane.

I don't like time travel plots because they're very confusing, but I think that's what's happening here.

Sorry, but after watching this episode, I felt like Lost is just going to be a bunch of actors building sandcastles until they can negotiate the end point.

Now we know why back in December/January, TPTB started talking about negotiating with ABC about when to end the series. As it stands, it seems we are 3/4s of the way through the story they have, and now they are just going to through pointless shows in every 3 episodes to not further the story too much as it would just mean we are closer to the end of this whole ride.

This episode was the biggest waste of 42 minutes. Seriously, i HATE spiders so I couldn't even watch Pikki kill each other. The 5 minutes of real improtance was placed through out the episode so it would keep us interested, but seriously...who cares if these two POS died? They got what they deserved, and add ZILCH to the story other than we got to see Lando Calrissian!

BOO THIS CRAPPY EPISODE! BOOOOOOOOOOO!

I suspect that TPTB added Pikki originally for some unknown reason, such as trying to expand story possibilities, etc., but decided, based on the hugely negative reaction in the fan base, to do this episode and try to get rid of them in a "useful" way.



I mentioned this in another thread, but I'll restate it here. I flatly disagree with this notion. Its simply not how TV works. As much as we fans like to believe that we can shape our favorite shows to this extent, its very rare that a Production team would actually change scripts in the middle of a season just to satisfy the fans. One of the old adages about the entertainment business is that sometimes you have to "tell the audience what they want." Which is what's going on here. TPTB told us we'll respect the place of Pikki in the show when they are done, and I don't think they are done yet. TPTB brought them in for reason and they are going to see it through because otherwise Pikki would be useless characters and a waste of time. TPTB aren't stupid, and they know that that course of action would be disasterous. Just give it time people. We're all here because we love this show. They can't please us with every moment of every episode, but they haven't disappointed us in the long run yet, and I have no reason to think they will.