anyone else notice that line?

anyone else notice that line?


In tonight's episode? NO! Are you saying the line, "big bad guy whose identity isnt' revealed until season 4..." was actually IN the episode tonight?

If not, then what?

In an interview? A podcast? A book we've ever read?

anyone else notice that line?


right before Sawyer 'found out' Nikki/Paulo were working for the others. (later found to be untrue)

I caught that for sure. Foreshadowed the discovery Sawyer made a second later and also, for me foreshadows that one of their own may secretly be in control of everything and that we find out in season 4.


Loved that meta reference. Still think jack = jacob
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In tonight's episode? NO! Are you saying the line, "big bad guy whose identity isnt' revealed until season 4..." was actually IN the episode tonight?

If not, then what?

In an interview? A podcast? A book we've ever read?


Hurley flips through the script for expose and finds out that the main good guy in this tv series was the bad guy (cobra) all along and they've kept that hidden for 4 seasons.

How is Jack jacob?

oh yeah that was a big heads up for fans to look out for.

It was in the Expose script. End of 4th season (the scene we saw, where Nikki's character was shot), the "big bad guy" is revealed to be the guy allegedly pursuing him! (The one Billy Dee was playing.)

I think TPTB were just having a little fun with us. Not laughing. :45: (j/k)

I'm confused about the reference. Can you give the line? :confused:

wow. i didn't catch this at all. impressive!

Hurley flips through the script for expose and finds out that the main good guy in this tv series was the bad guy (cobra) all along and they've kept that hidden for 4 seasons.

In which case, what possible difference could it make? Except that it clutters the forum so soon after an episode airs?

It was in the Expose script. End of 4th season (the scene we saw, where Nikki's character was shot), the "big bad guy" is revealed to be the guy allegedly pursuing him! (The one Billy Dee was playing.)

I think TPTB were just having a little fun with us. Not laughing. :45: (j/k)



I think it's more than just a little fun.

Think about the meta references in this episode.

nikki talking about how guest characters are supposed to die right before she dies.

the 'wolfgang puck of brazil' is paulo. the actor is touted as the 'tom cruise of brazil' when he was cast

there were probably others. this one, and the 4th season (another LOST number btw) means something I'm sure.
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In which case, what possible difference could it make? Except that it clutters the forum so soon after an episode airs?


clutter the forum? what are you talking about?


we are suggesting that this is a metaphysical reference to the foreshadow something about LOST in the 4th season.

hurley comments that in the 4th season of 'expose' (this script) they reveal the main good guy was really the bad guy all along


there were other parallels to the show expose and LOST through the episode so this could be another one.

hmmm ... i dont get it ...

is Expose supposed to be a real TV show? The only ones I know of is Lost, Heroes and 24

I don't get what people are so confused about.


When Sawyer, Charlie and Hurley are going through Nikki's stuff in her tent. Hurley finds the script of expose. a fictional tv show. and he starts marvelling at the revelation that at the end of the 4th season it is revealed that the major good guy is actually the major bad guy.

I believe the author of this thread is suggesting this throwaway line could in fact be a foreshadowing hint from TPTB of LOST about what is to come in season 4.

In which case, what possible difference could it make? Except that it clutters the forum so soon after an episode airs?

Every poster is allowed to open threads in this section, no matter if you think something is worth opening a thread for or not! If you have nothing on topic to add to a thread, please simply stay away from it. Thank you.

How is Jack jacob?

Doesn't Jack's tattoo supposedly mean "He walks amongst us, but he is not one of us..."?

ok I just rewatched the ep. Right when Hurley says "no way!! blah blah blah was the cobra!" ***cue dramatic music*** And you can hear Charlie in the background, "Is that supposed to mean something?" I don't think that was a coincidence. I get it all now. I just hope Lost doesn't end in 4 seasons. I believe ABC ordered 5 seasons if I'm not mistaken.

ok I just rewatched the ep. Right when Hurley says "no way!! blah blah blah was the cobra!" ***cue dramatic music*** And you can hear Charlie in the background, "Is that supposed to mean something?" I don't think that was a coincidence. I get it all now. I just hope Lost doesn't end in 4 seasons. I believe ABC ordered 5 seasons if I'm not mistaken.

little off topic but no they haven't.

main actors have i believe 6 options seasons written into their contract. (ie fox, lilly, etc)
but they go on a per year renewal. Just last week LOST got renewed for season 4 (not that there was any doubt) but they don't have anything on paper ensuring a 5th season.

I hope it does end next season. the creators have suggested they want the show to go about 100 eps...makes sense to me.

I've been thinking the same thing about Jack being Jacob. Either a prophesy from the others or a time loop thing. That's just a theory though not a spoiler.

little off topic but no they haven't.

main actors have i believe 6 options seasons written into their contract. (ie fox, lilly, etc)
but they go on a per year renewal. Just last week LOST got renewed for season 4 (not that there was any doubt) but they don't have anything on paper ensuring a 5th season.

I hope it does end next season. the creators have suggested they want the show to go about 100 eps...makes sense to me.

yeah thats true.. might as well end while still on top... unlike other shows that dragged on for seasons upon seasons

I'll be upset if Jacob turns out to be Jack, I hope they don't go there:cry: Couldn't it be anyone else? BTW thanks I hadn't even caught this.

perhaps Jacob is a level up from ben, but not the boss... he's more in tune with the island and its powers, and is a prophet of sorts. the leader everyone speaks of is not known to them yet, but Jacob forsees that he will emerge one day. that would go in line with jack's tattoos.

I just cant buy Jack ending up being the "head bad guy". I could however see that as being a tip that Locke is gonna be revealed as bad before it's over - dont see how he could be Jacob, though.

yeah a part of me can imagine the hackneyed idea of locke turning bad, and then walt having to kill him with a knife throw guided by his third eye.

anyone else notice that line?


Great catch...that line went right by me, but it is probably great foreshadowing for next season. I suspect we will begin to see some more questionable behavior from Locke, Sawyer, Jack, Kate, etc....to help muddy up just who the hidden bad guy/gal is.

That line on the show was intriguing and I do see it as a clue that we should be looking for the big bad guy (who might not be a guy at all BTW: HE might be a SHE)

I've thought Jack = Jacob for some time now... There's a lot of clues leading to that, and what a great twist that would be.. But like I wrote above, HE might be a SHE....

Did anyone else find it funny that Billy Dee Williams was in this? (Lando Calrissian of "Empire Strikes Back" & "Return of the Jedi")

Was this a nod to those of us that foresee some Star Wars parallels?

Wow, great catch. I like how there was actually a decent amount of meat to tonight's episode, even though on the surface it could be seen as filler.

Great summary of the main point of this thread. For an episode that seemed on the surface to just be Pikki, there were a great deal of parallels and foreshadowing in many of the lines.

Wow.

I didn't even think of that. Good thread. Good point.

the show is based on Michael Douglas' movie "the Game". Im not sure if im jokin or not.

i don't think jack = jacob but it definately could be one of the other losties. that was a good catch tho. it did get me thinking along those lines at first but if jack was one of the bad guys/Others why would juliet be unsure of him and ben have to manipulate him to do the surgery. they didn't know anyone else was in the pearl hatch with them so they weren;t saying that stuff for anyone elses benefit.

just my view of events in this epi :)

I definitely thought that was interesting. I can't wait to see what happens next season, will we be kicking ourselves for giving this even a moments thought or will we be shouting, "see, I told you, season 4!"

I also believe that was a very important subtle line. Besides, isn't the cliffhanger scene for this season codenamed 'snake in the mail'?

Wow, great catch. I like how there was actually a decent amount of meat to tonight's episode, even though on the surface it could be seen as filler.
TOTALLY!!! I have been skimming all these posts where some are complaining that tonight was not very informative, and I (like yourself) found it to be very 'juicy'..... :)

I just cant buy Jack ending up being the "head bad guy". I could however see that as being a tip that Locke is gonna be revealed as bad before it's over - dont see how he could be Jacob, though.


I could see it being Jack before Locke.

I think it's more than just a little fun.

Think about the meta references in this episode.

nikki talking about how guest characters are supposed to die right before she dies.

the 'wolfgang puck of brazil' is paulo. the actor is touted as the 'tom cruise of brazil' when he was cast

there were probably others. this one, and the 4th season (another LOST number btw) means something I'm sure.
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clutter the forum? what are you talking about?


we are suggesting that this is a metaphysical reference to the foreshadow something about LOST in the 4th season.

hurley comments that in the 4th season of 'expose' (this script) they reveal the main good guy was really the bad guy all along


there were other parallels to the show expose and LOST through the episode so this could be another one.

I have another, Right after Nikki and Paulo kill Mr. Zuckerman they walk into his closet and Nikki starts to open his safe when Paulo starts to lite a cigarette and Nikki says "LETS NOT POISEN OURSELVES ALSO" Which is exactly what they did! AWESOME!

The creators have suggested they want the show to go about 100 eps...makes sense to me.

They should go 108 epis..... LOL

I loved how Lando Calrissien made an appearance. TPTB love Star Wars and that's the first appearance by a SW cast member thus far.

I would so love to see Carrie Fisher or Anthony Daniels or Peter Mayhew make appearnces as well.

I loved how Lando Calrissien made an appearance. TPTB love Star Wars and that's the first appearance by a SW cast member thus far.

I would so love to see Carrie Fisher or Anthony Daniels or Peter Mayhew make appearnces as well.


Peter Mayhew as the Monster of course :biggrin:

Good catch. While it could turn out to be a throwaway line, something tells me it's not. The show is obviously setting us up for some big reveal late this season into early next season, and that could very well be the revelation that one of the Losties is not who they seem, and has pulling strings all along. Locke's the obvious candidate, which is why he should be discounted. I wouldn't be surprised if Jack gets the bullseye.

In the U.S., "Jack" is usually an informal form of "John" (as in "Jack Kennedy" = J.F.K.).
But I know of two European Jack's whose given name is "Jacob".

What if he was Jacob, but has been programmed to forget it?
This would be a great parallel to the old show "Nowhere Man" starring Bruce Greenwood.
It would also explain why he was not on "Jacob's List".

I am so glad you caught that one. I must have been half asleep when I watched the epi. I missed Vincent pulling off the blanket and now this. As to Jacob/Jack/John. Interesting, but I don't think it is Jack otherwise the Others would have had a different attitude with him.

Several thoughts running through my head about this. First I was thinking that maybe the big guy would be Locke (given his communion with the island and all), and on a non-serious side note - given that names of characters hold so much meaning in this show, John could be Jacob based on an old tune. Anyone remember the lyric "John Jacob Jingleheimer Schmidt, that's my name too" Could "John" be "Jacob" "too"?

OK back to being serious again, Jack has the tattoo that says "he walks among us, but he is not one of us". Now this has irony both with the Others and with the Lostees if it turns out that Jack is the "big guy". He could be Jacob and have been walking amongst the Lostees the whole time. but even deeper than that and still following the names carry meaning concept, Jack is the son of "Christian", both are/were men of science but the later had a very faith based name. Now my thought is what if Jack's given birth name is Jacob, but he/his parents preferred he go by Jack his whole life.

Ok, so if Jack is Jacob, I think he is unaware of this fact, maybe "programmed" to wake up later. But, that would mean that whomever brought down the plane had such control over it that they knew that Jack/Jacob would not get killed in the crash. If there was a crash??

While some things about Jack being Jacob may make sense -particularly the tattoo, other things don't add up-for instance, it was Jack's mom who insisted that Jack go to Australia to get his dad, and that's how Jack crashed. So are we to assume that if Jack is Jacob then his mom is involved, as it was mom who sent him there in the first place??

I don't know.

That line on the show was intriguing and I do see it as a clue that we should be looking for the big bad guy (who might not be a guy at all BTW: HE might be a SHE)

I've thought Jack = Jacob for some time now... There's a lot of clues leading to that, and what a great twist that would be.. But like I wrote above, HE might be a SHE....

i agree with this...i think it could be jack or locke, prolly more jack...but it could be a chick. i know the others refer to jacob as "him" but could it be a woman? "jacob" as a last name? i mean, how cool would it be if "jacob" was really sun? i know it's comming out of left field, but that woman is good at keeping secrets.

I don't get what people are so confused about.


When Sawyer, Charlie and Hurley are going through Nikki's stuff in her tent. Hurley finds the script of expose. a fictional tv show. and he starts marvelling at the revelation that at the end of the 4th season it is revealed that the major good guy is actually the major bad guy.

I believe the author of this thread is suggesting this throwaway line could in fact be a foreshadowing hint from TPTB of LOST about what is to come in season 4.

Thank you so much for clearing that up. I missed it both times and that does seem like a "throw away" line until you remember that Lost usually doesn't do that. :) I'm unconfused now. Yea! :clapping:

I keep looking at Jack's backstory (as well as Locke's) and it feels as if much too much has been set up making them out to be average schmo's in the real world for there to be any believable transistion for either of them becoming 'previously-other's-connected'.

there is however, Desmond. We've been shown him as underachieving and bumbling in his connections to penny and her dad, his course through life/army,etc... but with the power and connections of Penn's family - there's at least more to where des has been in the real world than the other losties. Plus he's had very little interest in anything involving interaction with the others with the exception of the trip to the pearl station (did he go inside or wait behind outside?)

Sure his flashbacks involving kelvin would make it seem not so, but its more believable to me that it be him over jack/locke,etc.

I don't think it's Jack. That would be way way past "Jump The Shark" time.

But I do think they were telling us that we won't discover Jacob's identity until next season, and it will be somebody we already know.

I'm all but certain that it's Charles Widmore.

I have another, Right after Nikki and Paulo kill Mr. Zuckerman they walk into his closet and Nikki starts to open his safe when Paulo starts to lite a cigarette and Nikki says "LETS NOT POISEN OURSELVES ALSO" Which is exactly what they did! AWESOME!


oh yeah! or what about after seeing boone/shannon nikki said 'promise me we won't end up like them' as in DEAD!!!


and also sawyer continually saying he didn't know who these two characters were. although i am not sure that didn't mean a little bit more than a comical reference.
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They should go 108 epis..... LOL


That is so true!!! I bet they will too!

I think this is just what Jack's character needs.. flashbacks about tattoos? Let's just get to the juicy stuff.. he'd be such a great baddie!

Hurley also called "Expose" the best hour of television, ever.

I also took that as a hint that there's more hidden under the surface of this obvious looking filler episode.

Who most despises the Others, for good reason? Who is the least likely to be one of them but will turn out to be? Sawyer.

Doesn't Jack's tattoo supposedly mean "He walks amongst us, but he is not one of us..."?

Yes it does...and the "Sheriff" of the others found that "ironic".

For it to be truely "ironic", it would have to mean that Jack is indeed "one of us".

I've been on board the Jack=Jacob idea for a while now...to many references to both Jack and Jacob being a Great or Marvelous man for it to be coincidence.

Anyway, back on topic...I also thought that Expose' statement by Hurley was a clue that we might find out at the close of season 4 of LOST that a good guy ends up being a bad guy...I'm surprised at people that don't think that it is.

The Expose script shows that the main good guy turns out to be the evil Cobra. Ok, I can buy that one of the Fusies that we think is good, like Jack or Locke, may turn out to be bad but the Fusies are not particularly good people as it is, they're just the team we're rooting for. Maybe one of the Others who proclaim to be good could be proven to be bad, but that's not much of a stretch.

I think there is probably a good chance that the "Cobra" = Jacob although that's not necessarily so. The "Cobra" could turn out to be a different guy entirely. It's a big assumption but right now, I'm going to assume he is Jacob.

The impression I have of Jacob is that he is messianic. Mikhail thinks he's a great man and the Others are somewhat awed by him. So, maybe Jacob is actually the good guy who turns out to be bad and the question should be " is Jacob one of the Fusies?"

Dharma apparently happened about thirty years ago and the Fusies, with the exception of Locke, Rose, and Bernard, are all about thirty. I'm not sure how long after Dharma, Jacob came into the picture but it seems to me, the Fusies are all too young. So, we would either need to seriously expand on the reason behind the twenty-four year old woman with the seventy year old uterus or it's not one of them.

Assuming someone we know is Jacob "the Cobra", who could it be?

Jack's name could be a diminutive of Jacob but it seems to me "he walks amongst us, but he is not one of us" is more an argument against his being Jacob than for it. His recent behavior of cutting his own deal with Ben and hanging in Othersville, support that message all on their own. Also, we know a lot about his background and we know his father. With medical school, residency, marriage, trip to Thailand, and chasing Christian half way across the world, there hasn't been enough time for Jack to be Jacob. Plus, his father would have to have been a whole lot older if Jack were going to have twenty odd missing years. Jack is a leader, albeit an unwilling one, and the Fusies follow him. It seems to me, he is more likely to be a natural enemy of Jacob than Jacob himself.

I had the impression that Mikail knew Jacob. If so, that would exclude Locke, Sayid, and Kate on the Fusies' side, Danielle, and virtually everyone on the Other's side because Mikhail has seen them all.

That leaves Jin, Sun, Sawyer, Charlie, Hurley, and Desmond. We know too much about Jin, Sun, Sawyer, and Charlie too, there hasn't been enough missing time for them to be Jacob. Hurley and Desmond would be the most viable candidates of this group. Hurley has a big gap in his timeline between his father leaving and right before he wins the lottery but he and his parents are too young so there would need to have been some kind of time or biological adjustment that happened to all three of them. Desmond is confused most of the time and already has some kind of time warp thing going on. We know nothing about him or his family prior to his falling in love with Penny.

Then there's Claire, an unlikely candidate to be sure but maybe there's a Rosemary's Baby thing going on with Aaron and he is actually Jacob's son.

Bernard and Rose are the right age and we don't know anything about them prior to when they met just a few years ago. Bernard seems unlikely since he wanted to leave the island so badly and showed himself to be a very bad leader on the one project he attempted. Rose, on the other hand, settled right in. She has a similar affinity for the island as Locke and the quiet demeanor of a true spiritual leader.

So, I guess if the "Cobra" = Jacob, then my candidates to be Jacob among the Fusies would be Desmond or Rose, but I'm not at all sure that Jacob and the Cobra are one and the same.

If the "Cobra" is not Jacob, then I guess my candidate for good guy who turns out to be bad among the Fusies would have to be Hurley. He's the only one of the group who seems truly good. He is also the only one who got on the plane by his own volition and not because of some outside influence. He is certainly the least likely to be a bad guy.

There is at least one other thread where this same topic is being discussed with all sorts of reasons why the Cobra=Jacob=Charlie and =the Marshall. I think it's a topic we are going to be discussing for quite a while unless Darlton says something in a podcast to help us out. I listened to Hurley's quote again, and he says that the bad guy's identity was secret for 4 seasons, so that could mean that the reveal doesn't come until season 5. Yikes! You get distracted in that scene b/c it is when Sawyer finds the walkie talkie, but if you ignore the walkie talkie for a minute and just listen to Hurley and Charlie, you'll hear the correct quote. By the way, if I had to choose one of the Losties, I'd choose Locke, but I hope that it isn't any of them.

Your post is well thought out and makes sense but fails to take into consideration the possibility of more losties experiencing the LOST TIME situation that Des is going thru.

Without going into a super long post with every reason I believe this...I have believed that Jack too is in a similar time loop as Desmond and that he is to become the leader or Him or Jacob...whoever this is. He just doesn't know it yet.

I also think that Ben and "the Sheriff" knows this and are trying to make sure that Jack does the things that he needs to do to achieve that outcome (i.e. having Locke blow up the sub so that Jack has to stay...maybe he even had a hand in setting up the new possible love interest in Juliet)

That is the main reason that I think the Sheriff finds Jack's tattoo funny or "ironic" (Remember the girl that gave him the tattoo said that he is a Great man and the tattoo says that although he walks among us, he is not one of us)

The TIME LOST or Mittleos topic that you mention could explain why a 24 year old could have the uterus of a 74 year old...that could depend on how many times that 24 year old had re-lived a portion of their life...I just don't think that people are paying as much attention to the whole lost time thing as they should.

Desmond keeps proving that you CAN change the course of history as he has saved Charlie like 3 times now...so any talk of LOST has to include the possibility that ANY or even ALL of them have been through here before and can change the course of history. (Although, with "Course Correction" they might still end up with the same result)

Now, in Expose', we have the newspaper that Paulo was reading in the airport dated 2 days after the original flight date of Oceanic 815...this could prove to be a production error but I highly doubt it...if the producers say that it's not, then we have another time discrepency to discuss.

And quite a significant one I might add.

My theory is that we are going to find Jack in a similar situation as Des before long...and maybe then, get a better idea of what Jack's true destiny is.

did anyone remember that "diary" that was kept on the abc message board a while back!? not sure if it still exists, but that "diary" was written by a lostie on the beach who's identity was never revealed? that person that kept this diary spoke about living on the beach , being "out of the loop" when it came to important decisions, and spoke about having a brother that was being held captive in the hatch (ben) and whether the losties in charge / running the hatch were taking good care of the prisoner?!??

anyone remember this? this could mean a mole is amongst the losties, but wouldn't have been a jack, locke, sayid, anna lucia type! maybe it is a charlie.......ie the hooded person that looks like a cobra!
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you mean no one remembers the diaries from the abc message boards?
i just recalled this and figured it could be a big clue!??

did anyone remember that "diary" that was kept on the abc message board a while back!? not sure if it still exists, but that "diary" was written by a lostie on the beach who's identity was never revealed? that person that kept this diary spoke about living on the beach , being "out of the loop" when it came to important decisions, and spoke about having a brother that was being held captive in the hatch (ben) and whether the losties in charge / running the hatch were taking good care of the prisoner?!??

anyone remember this? this could mean a mole is amongst the losties, but wouldn't have been a jack, locke, sayid, anna lucia type! maybe it is a charlie.......ie the hooded person that looks like a cobra!
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you mean no one remembers the diaries from the abc message boards?
i just recalled this and figured it could be a big clue!??

Janelle Grainger was the first diary keeper and she disappeared. Someone named Chris Dobson started writing in the diary and he thought the Losties had his brother Steven Michael Dobson held prisoner in the Swan Hatch. It turns out that his brother died in the crash but he couldn't accept it. All of this and itt turns out to be a HUGE red herring.