2 interesting points we learned about our good friend smokey

1 it is afraid of a sonic weapon fence. 2 the others/hostiles don't know what it is.

as a side note one of the top five episodes ever

yeah..so that leads to the question as to what smokey is exactly.

was it part of dharma?

I LOVED Smokey vs Fence scene. One of my favourite scenes of LOST, ever!

but what were the weird flashes when it confronted kate and juliet? ive never seen that before (unless i totally missed something in an earlier episode). its almost like it was taking their picture. any ideas?

What if Smokey is HIM ?

I wondered about the flashes, too. The only thing I could think of was that it was scanning Juliet in a similar way to how it scanned Eko? But maybe we were just seeing it from a different perspective or something...

About the flashes, I thought they were new, although maybe smokey always did that, and we just didn't really notice because it was light out in the Eko scene.

I'm really wondering what Smokey is now. If the security fence was made by Dharma (and I don't know if it was of course) why would they make a monster or "security system" that they couldn't control without the fence? Wouldn't they be vulnerable outside of it? Maybe smokey predates Dharma, and was made by say, the people who made the foot statue. Just a thought.

but what were the weird flashes when it confronted Kate and Juliette? I've never seen that before (unless i totally missed something in an earlier episode). its almost like it was taking their picture. any ideas?

Seemed to me like it was downloading Juliette's background/history like it did with Eko and probably John. It is clear that whomever designed Smokey knew how to keep it contained to a specific location, the security fence proves that. since Dharma created the facilities on the island, one can assume they too created the defense system.

It seemed to me that Smokey was scared of Juliet. The sounds it made gave me the impression that it was not used to "reading" a person like Juliet's thoughts/memories, almost as if it's not accustomed to (or supposed to) analyze an Other...

Now I know she's sort of an outsider, but she has been WITH the Others for 3 years, so I get the feeling that Smokey picked up on that somehow.

Just a gut feeling though, I could be mistaken.

It seemed to me that Smokey was scared of Juliet. The sounds it made gave me the impression that it was not used to "reading" a person like Juliet's thoughts/memories, almost as if it's not accustomed to (or supposed to) analyze an Other...

Now I know she's sort of an outsider, but she has been WITH the Others for 3 years, so I get the feeling that Smokey picked up on that somehow.

Just a gut feeling though, I could be mistaken.

Yes! I absolutely agree.. it practically ran away after it flashed at her. It seemed very frightened of her.

I'm sticking with my pet theory here that the others are the smoke monster :)

The others all vanish and now we see smokey again. Coincidence? lol.

I LOVED Smokey vs Fence scene. One of my favourite scenes of LOST, ever!

me too, loved it!

Did they get rid of Smokey? I couldn't tell.

Did Kate see them as well, or was it only Juliet?

Earlier in the season, when Ben marched Sawyer up to that point to show him that they weren't on the same island, I remember people here were posting pictures of what looked like lights attached to a tree in the background. Were the lights in this episode similar? Why would they need those Smoke-ridding lights if they were on the Alcatraz island?

QUESTIONS!!!!!?????

I haven't seen the ep :(

yet


But I happened to just post a very specific theory about Smokey in General Theories.


I think it likes metal.

I don't think that they permanently got rid of Smokey. Smokey just couldn't cross the border.

It seemed to me that Smokey was scared of Juliet. The sounds it made gave me the impression that it was not used to "reading" a person like Juliet's thoughts/memories, almost as if it's not accustomed to (or supposed to) analyze an Other...

Very interesting idea. I may have to rewatch those scenes with that in mind. I definitely thought the first encounter was a scanning, and the second one was after smokey had made its decision.

I believe it probably judged Kate to be bad. Surely Locke and Juliet both feel that way.

2 the others/hostiles don't know what it is.

Well, I don't know about that for sure. The Others like to lie. They could ver well know what it is.

Maybe that was light monster scaring away smokey monster.

What about this? They ran from Smokey the first time and hid in the banyan tree. It flashed them and went away. Then, the next morning, it chased them again when they came out. So...is Smokey more solid than he looks? Why not just go between the trunks of the tree? Someone has said Smokey may have been scared of Juliet because she's an Other, but why would it chase them again when they came out?

And why can't Smokey fly over the fence?

-AJF

I'm thinking smokey might have wanted kate, perhaps because she killed wayne in cold blood, although kate thought she was doing a good thing, you could make similar case for eko's death.

I'm sticking with my pet theory here that the others are the smoke monster :)

The others all vanish and now we see smokey again. Coincidence? lol.


as sayid said: "They vanished into thin air..."

this episode definitely made me think more along these lines. but then why would they build a fence against themselves?

Did they get rid of Smokey? I couldn't tell.


I thought we were looking at Juliet from the smoke monster's point of view and the flashes were it reading her memories a la Mr. Eko.

I don't think that they permanently got rid of Smokey. Smokey just couldn't cross the border.

I'm talking about the flashes that appeared when Kate and Juliet were hiding in the tree. You saw lights flash on Juliet's face, then Smokey dissapeared. They obviously didn't get rid of Smokey permanently, because he came back later by the fence.

Unless the fence isn't to keep smokey out but Juliet used it to protect Kate and thus gain her trust -
she used the fence she knew was there to protect them from Dhrama

Smokey is a photographer, and you need a flash when it's dark.

I think was a definite clue in terms of smokey reading peoples minds...it's almost like a camera taking pictures of them...this was such a great episode...

We saw a close up of Juliet's face, right? Could she have been making the flashes to scare Smokey off temporarily?

-AJF

Remember when Locke saw the smoke monster and described it was a beautiful thing? Maybe he saw the bright light flashes too?

For all the people sayinig it wanted Kate, I dont think so. It seemed more like it flashed JULIET rather than Kate. So i'm guessing this is Juliets first close-up encounter with the monster where it could scan her. Then it made its decision and went after Juliet.

Very interesting the others dont know what the monster is. Thats why they live in the barracks....they're safe there.

Sure looked like a camera flash going off, didn't it? Very odd and one of the most interesting things to happen all season IMHO. No real theory on what it was though, but I enjoyed seeing smokey again!!

This is the first time we've seen from his POV too, so the whole thing must be a clue to the fact that smoking is some form of detection and scanning device used by someone on orunder the island.

If you want to look at the second smokey scene again i swear when it formed it had a pair of eyes if you look really quick...I usually don't post stuff like this so please give it a whirl and see if you see what i saw...maybe if someone sees it and can get a screencap...i've never done one before

Where did you see it at?

right as the three threads of smokey came together at the fence scene...you see it for a split second...i think it might be me just wishing that scene could've been more awesome that it actually was but that's the first thing i noticed...

Didn't we see stuff from his point of view in Walkabout?

This is the first time we've seen from his POV

Not true. We saw "his" POV when Locke saw him up close and personal.

Maybe that was light monster scaring away smokey monster.

Interesting if true. That would be a white/black, good/bad reference. Two monsters (I do hate using that word) battling for the souls of island inhabitants. Maybe a bit Judeo-Christian, but cool, none the less.

but what were the weird flashes when it confronted kate and juliet? ive never seen that before (unless i totally missed something in an earlier episode). its almost like it was taking their picture. any ideas?

Locke = Bright light / Flashes / Beautiful
Eko = Dark and Smokey.

I think it takes light or dark depending on the character. Juliet was innocent pre-island, just like Lock. Eko, however, was not.

Well, we've seen a lot of instances in the past where Smokey's form reflects the person with whom it is "interacting" so to speak. Here, it was looking (or interacting) with two different people who might be at different ends of the moral spectrum, and was disoriented by the contrast between the two.

I'm sticking with my pet theory here that the others are the smoke monster :)

The others all vanish and now we see smokey again. Coincidence? lol.


That makes sense. I just posted in another thread that I think Smokey backed off because of Juliet, not the fence. What's worth noting is that Juliet doesn't want Kate to know that Smokey can't touch her (she stood in front of the fence to make it seem like the fence kept Smokey away.)

Why can't the smoke monster just go over the fence like Kate et al did to get into otherville?

He can go in trees, airplanes etc. I don't get it.

Actually, now I like the clashing idea, because it really did actually sound like crashing.

I thought we were looking at Juliet from the smoke monster's point of view and the flashes were it reading her memories a la Mr. Eko.

+1

I definitely think that was Smokey scanning Juliet.

And why can't Smokey fly over the fence?

-AJF


Good question. I'd have to guess that it has to have a 'base' point on or near the ground. But, thinking that, it could very well go over, attach another base point (think the arc or a bridge), and then detach the 'rear' point. This would only stand unless the 'weakness' is sonics in general and the 'gate' emits a minor (but still pliable field) above the surroundings (which I doubt).

In other news. I used too many quotes and brackets.

We sort of got a point of view in The 23rd Plasm as well, when it shot through the trees. Smokey gets around.

My vote's for Smokey taking pictures.

Remember when Locke saw the smoke monster and described it was a beautiful thing? Maybe he saw the bright light flashes too?

yes..thats exactly what I thought too.

I got the feeling that it meant juilet was on the List. It was like the monster was accessing her identity and then left her. Then as with Locke the monster went back for her.

If teh fence was pre others then how did Juliet know the entry code when she opened the cover on one of the pillars holding the metal disk? Juliet was IMO just as frightened as Kate of smokie.

Again IMHO, the smoke monster is Dhama. The monster is definatly disguised by the smoke to hide its real idenity or form, shape etc. Dhama was trying to develop a super warrior and perhaps it was "smokie."

They got instant sunburn as a result of those flashes. That was weird.

I wondered about the flashes, too. The only thing I could think of was that it was scanning Juliet in a similar way to how it scanned Eko? But maybe we were just seeing it from a different perspective or something...

That's exactly what I thought it was. This time we just saw the outside point of view.

Interesting that it specifically targeted Juliet. Interesting also that it seems to scan a person, leave and "report" its findings, then return later.

Good question. I'd have to guess that it has to have a 'base' point on or near the ground. But, thinking that, it could very well go over, attach another base point (think the arc or a bridge), and then detach the 'rear' point. This would only stand unless the 'weakness' is sonics in general and the 'gate' emits a minor (but still pliable field) above the surroundings (which I doubt).

In other news. I used too many quotes and brackets.


Smart thinking, and hilarious closing line! :biglaugh:

Remember when Locke saw the smoke monster and described it was a beautiful thing? Maybe he saw the bright light flashes too?

I think you're right. I think Juliet saw they same flashes of light Locke did, which would mean that Cerberus was possibly after Kate. Since Juliet clears knows a thing or two about the monster, is it possible that she handcuffed herself to Kate because she knew that the monster would come after her?

I instantly thought camera flashes, then mug shots - smokey mug shots. I like the idea that she was scanning their memories. Yes, it's a she! And she's mad that the Losties are feasting on her beloved boars! :biggrin:

That scene when Kate was taking down Juliet reminded me of Nikki throwing that spider on Paulo (which brought the monster). I wonder if this smoke monster reads energy from inside a human body and goes after it. Like with Kate when she got so angry with Juliet and Juliet screamed after getting her arm dislocated (which she said had happened 4 times already). This monster feeds off of energy/feelings:fear,anger, weakness/thoughts it seems.
Which could have caused the Smokey to come out.

I agree with the posters who think Smokey took a picture of Juliet (scanned her). Maybe to identify the person. (check to see if they are Dharma workers) If Juliet came to the island with Ethan and the rest of them, than she's on file (on the list) that she works with Dharma. Kate's not on the list (file). Locke could be (since he worked in a box company that possibly works with Dharma?) So, when the monster came to him, he was safe.

Who controls it? No idea. Maybe no one?

Thats just an idea I have now that I think about this Smoke monster some more..

Need to review some scene photos please to see if Juliet had some experience of fright or delight.

:shrug:Why can't the smoke monster just go over the fence like Kate et al did to get into otherville?

He can go in trees, airplanes etc. I don't get it.Maybe he's just stupid! :biggrin: ;)

I also think Smokie was trying to get Kate. When the flashes went off, Kates face
was hidden behind Juliets, so all that was seen was Juliets face. Maybe that is
why Smokie left then. Once they were on foot again, it came back and I think
it was again trying to get Kate.

When the flashes happened, listen to the associated sound effects. My girlfriend's immediate reaction was, "That's Rousseau. She's the only one with an automatic weapon!"

Listen, again. It does sound like the sound of a machine gun. The light was the muzzle flashes in the darkness.

So often, we see something on LOST and try to make it all fit into a single idea. Sometimes, it's possible that two or more things are going on at the same time.

Perhaps I am looking too hard for clues. Nevertheless, when I placed the scene in slow motion, which I continued as the monster retreats from the trees, there is something white (fabric?) in the trees above K and J. Did anyone else see this or is this the product of too little caffeine today?

Best

To me it's very likely smokie was coming for Kate, the fact that she was unrepentant for killing her step-dad in her backstory really reminded me of Eko's demise. Both Kate and Eko feel they were justified in their actions, I seriously feared it was Kate's turn for judgement in Smokie court.

To me it seemed like smokie was scanning Juliette, even when Smokie was inches from Eko's face we saw flashes of electricity as well as people from the past. I think Juliette probably saw the same sort of thing, and she passed the test but Smokie couldn't see a way of killing Kate without hurting Juliette. I also love now that you could be justified in assuming the fence was built partly to keep the people living in the barracks safe from Smokie.

yes..thats exactly what I thought too.

I got the feeling that it meant juilet was on the List. It was like the monster was accessing her identity and then left her. Then as with Locke the monster went back for her.

Good theory!! ;)

When the flashes happened, listen to the associated sound effects. My girlfriend's immediate reaction was, "That's Rousseau. She's the only one with an automatic weapon!"

Listen, again. It does sound like the sound of a machine gun. The light was the muzzle flashes in the darkness.

So often, we see something on LOST and try to make it all fit into a single idea. Sometimes, it's possible that two or more things are going on at the same time.

A single idea.. interesting theory. I didn't really think about that. One of the noises could be a sound of Danielle's (Rousseau) machine gun.. possibly. I really need to watch this episode over again to hear the noises. Sounds like things are clashing together. Steam engine sound/cluttering sounds/like its gathering up energy, or something when it clutters. Not sure. Thats just what I've been hearing since we first heard Smokey.

Interesting find Tom Chaney.

scan!!

Steam engine sound/cluttering sounds/like its gathering up energy, or something when it clutters.
...and slightly off-subject: aren't those "cluttering sounds" really a lot like the sound of the Swan counter resetting?

The stills on lost-media dont seem to show Kate behind Juliet in such a way to "fool" Smokey.

Screencaps of what I am talking about:
http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage-92958.html
http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage-92959.html
http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage-92962.html
http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage-92963.html

Only difference I can see is Kate is not looking at Smokey but Juliet does for some of this scene.

It seemed to me that Smokey was scared of Juliet. The sounds it made gave me the impression that it was not used to "reading" a person like Juliet's thoughts/memories, almost as if it's not accustomed to (or supposed to) analyze an Other...

Now I know she's sort of an outsider, but she has been WITH the Others for 3 years, so I get the feeling that Smokey picked up on that somehow.

Just a gut feeling though, I could be mistaken.

It may not have been used to "reading" a person such as Juliet, but I thought she too, looked terrified. However, if Smokie was afraid of Juliet, it certainly didn't take a long time before it came back for her. She narrowly escaped Smokie had she not turned on the fence and had a staring match afterward. It didn't appear nor sound as though Smokie was very pleased about that fence, which brings a question that someone has already asked: Why could it not go over the fence?

Did anyone notice that when the lights flashed on Juliet's face, Kate was looking away the entire time (at least from what I remember)? It seems that only Juliet saw the flashing lights. I would assume that if Kate had seen lights flashing at her, she would have turned around. This lends some belief to Locke's comment that while Mr. Eko (and the TV viewer at home) saw black smoke, the "good folks" see a white light.

As for not jumping over the fence, my best guess would be that smokey takes the path of least resistance. It tears out trees to get at people instead of going around them. I imagine it to be similar to a snake (it even resembles one). It slithers a little from side to side, but mostly it just goes straight ahead (unless you count the sidewinder). Any grass in its way gets pushed aside. However, if a snake came up against a pane of glass, it might try to go through it a few times because it can't "see" the glass... just through it. Unless smokey has more than a primitive intelligence, it's basically a fly bouncing off from a glass window. That's my guess, anyway...

Locke = Bright light / Flashes / Beautiful
Eko = Dark and Smokey.

I think it takes light or dark depending on the character. Juliet was innocent pre-island, just like Lock. Eko, however, was not.

This is what struck me too....the flashes of light that Smokey flashed on Juilet were the same that Locke described as seeing. This may play into Locke & Juliet being one of the same.

Hmmm.....

I think that it was merely Smokey scanning Juliet as it had not encountered her before.

maybe it was the whispers coming into action to protect them.

ever single time someone needs protection for the monster they run to the trees.

Charlie was up the tree when smokey showed up and "scanned" Eko.

All the other times re: running from the monster...or polar bears...the Losties have run to the tree's...and alot of the time whispers can be heard...if I'm not mistaken.

It would explain why smokey does seem to have a hate the trees and rips thems up

Why can't the smoke monster just go over the fence like Kate et al did to get into otherville?

He can go in trees, airplanes etc. I don't get it.


This is a really good point... that's actually a pretty big possible plot hole. Maybe you can only go over the barrier directly over the posts? The Losties fit, but Smokey is too big, (although if it knew this it could just make itself into a thin line of smoke) Or, maybe the barrier damaged Smokey somehow, and it had to retreat before trying something else, but next time it won't make the same mistake. Those are the only ways I can think of to explain it other than Smokey just being not all that bright.

To be honest, we have never seen smokie FLY. We have seen it HOVERING. To hover, you need a surface as a support, perhaps Smokie's nature uses a similar principle. As for the flashes, I posted in other thread that perhaps it was scanning Juliet looking for the access code numbers.

Great discussion.

It appears as if Juliet makes a conscious effort to close and shield her eyes from Smokie. Possibly Smokie uses the eyes as the "way in" for scanning? You know, the whole "windows to the soul" thing. Or maybe Juliet doesn't want to see any images of her past like Mr. Eko experienced. Could those flashes be the reflections of those images swirling in the smoke?

To me it's very likely smokie was coming for Kate, the fact that she was unrepentant for killing her step-dad in her backstory really reminded me of Eko's demise. Both Kate and Eko feel they were justified in their actions, I seriously feared it was Kate's turn for judgement in Smokie court.

To me it seemed like smokie was scanning Juliette, even when Smokie was inches from Eko's face we saw flashes of electricity as well as people from the past. I think Juliette probably saw the same sort of thing, and she passed the test but Smokie couldn't see a way of killing Kate without hurting Juliette. I also love now that you could be justified in assuming the fence was built partly to keep the people living in the barracks safe from Smokie.
You took the words right out of my mouth. Smokie seems to have 2 criterea for judgement...
1) Have you killed someone?
2) Are you sorry/repentant if you did?

or maybe we should look back to Locke's past for the criterea?

1) Are you a Hunter?
or
2) Are you a Farmer?

I believe Locke is a Farmer no matter what he said.

I saw the scene somewhat differently. I thought Juliet may have reacted with some sort of psychic outburst purely out of instinct when Smokey approached -- that was the first flash. Then she seemed to hold her hands up in a slightly more deliberate way -- I think she was defending them against Smokey. I've posted elsewhere that I think there were references to "Carrie" (Juliet's favorite book) in this episode, and since Carrie is about a girl with telekinetic powers, I wonder if Juliet has some "special" ability that allowed her to defend them (and to anticipate Kate's attack with the cue stick, earlier)? But maybe an ability which she can't yet control.

Question: would very focused telekinesis allow one to alter the biological makeup of a human? That is, could Juliet have had a "leg up" when doing her research?

People seem to keep saying that Smokey was after Kate because she was a murderer, but why would Smokey distinguish between Kate and Juliet on that basis, since Juliet is a murderer too?

I immediately thought of flash photography when Smokey cornered J & K in the trees. There were four bright, blinding flashes, coupled w/ the eerie Smokey sounds we've come to know and love.

There were a couple of great Smokey POV shots in this sequence too. The first was when Smokey tracked through the jungle canopy into where J & K were hiding. Very cool shot that revealed J & K cowering in the trees. Then, just after the last flash, there's another cool POV as Smokey retreats rapidly back out into the jungle.

We've seen shots from Smokey's POV before, as w/ Eko, but this time the lighting looked completely different. The flashes on Juliet were warmer in color, and intense enough to possibly momentarily blind her. It looked like Smokey scanned/photoed them very quickly, then retreated back to wherever it goes with the information it gathered.

A bit off topic, but I also noticed another cool POV shot at the fence line. It was from J & K's POV, when you saw the tree explode and then Smokey coming right at the camera. Another very cool shot where it appeared as if Smokey was charging at them, then suddenly is stopped by the barrier. Was that the first time we've actually seen the trees explode AND Smokey together? Before this epi., I always thought that when we saw the trees explode, we only heard Smokey, not actually saw it too.

Great discussion.

It appears as if Juliet makes a conscious effort to close and shield her eyes from Smokie. Possibly Smokie uses the eyes as the "way in" for scanning? You know, the whole "windows to the soul" thing. Or maybe Juliet doesn't want to see any images of her past like Mr. Eko experienced. Could those flashes be the reflections of those images swirling in the smoke?
I love that idea! Here's the importance of the eyes again in the show. Does this mean that if you keep your eyes shut, smokie can't scan you? This reminds me of the Basilisk's tale...

They got instant sunburn as a result of those flashes. That was weird.

I have an old TV, so I wasn't sure if that was why their faces appeared to be burned, but your saying this confirms it for me...thanks. This begs the question though...is it possible to get a burn from flashes of light, or is heat required? If so, what does this imply...only organic matter gives off heat, no?

Maybe Smokey was showing Juliet her past, like what Smokey did to Eko. He saw what "bad" things he had done in his past.
So, the flashes could possibly be gun shots, Like when she shot Danny. (there was a post a few pages ago that sparked this idea)

What was interesting to me was how Juliet turned away from the "scanning." Both Locke and Eko stared right into smokey the first time they saw it. Somehow, I think that Juliet knew not to let it scan her. She admitted that the others have had some experience with it, so it's not unreasonable.

I think she knows more than she's told us about smokey.

What was interesting to me was how Juliet turned away from the "scanning." Both Locke and Eko stared right into smokey the first time they saw it. Somehow, I think that Juliet knew not to let it scan her. She admitted that the others have had some experience with it, so it's not unreasonable.

I think she knows more than she's told us about smokey.
I believe so too. My question is why doesn't she spill all the beans about Smokie at least? After all, it seems the others and the monster are not on the same side. Why keeping it a secret?
100%
I have an old TV, so I wasn't sure if that was why their faces appeared to be burned, but your saying this confirms it for me...thanks. This begs the question though...is it possible to get a burn from flashes of light, or is heat required? If so, what does this imply...only organic matter gives off heat, no?

Ultraviolet Light Rays?

Hey ya'll, good discussion. I remember that there were images imbedded in the screencaps of Eko's first encounter with Smokey... can anyone point me to something similar for Juliet's encounter. Interesting that Smokey seemed focussed on Juliet and sort of bypassed Kate, any ideas why that might be, especially in a Kate flashback epi?
squid

It seems to me like Smokey scans someone, then decides what to do. When it flashed, it was doing the same thing as when we saw the flashes inside it when it saw Eko for the first time, but we were just seeing it from Smokeys perspective. Then later it tried to do to Juliet what it did to Eko the second time Eko saw it.

I'm pretty certain that Juliet isn't scared of Smokey. If she really was in danger, she would have ran straight to the fence, but instead she sits there with Kate throughout the whole thing keeping up the "what was that thing" routine. Well, we now know that she at least knows what it is, and might know a great deal more than she's letting on. So why isn't Juliet afraid??

Hey I just had an idea. Remember when Locke says that he made a strong case for Kate, but that The Others "aren't very forgiving"?? Maybe they couldn't reach a consensus, so throwing Kate and Juliet out in Smokey-territory was really a way to judge whether Kate is good or bad. If Juliet is "immune" to Smokey, she would be the ideal cantidate to go with Kate.

Another idea here: What if those flashes are not a downoalding or uploading mechanism, but something completely different?
I remember a while ago, I posted a theory about the Smokie mosnter being like a guardian dog (cerberus?) and those chain, roallercoaster sounds we hear, would be like a leash pulling on it...Perhaps those flashes were a way to tell Smokie to back off, like an electric discharge or message/command?

If Smokey had never scanned Juliet before, why is everyone so confident she knew what Smokey was? So either:
1. she wasn't lying
2. the flashes weren't scans

or a few other potential questions...

No one caught the flash of light that happens in the trees, before Smokey goes to where Kate and Juliette were hiding? I can't get a screen grab of it, but it happens at 21:32 on ABC's online player. It's during the POV of Smokey plowing through the tree tops. There's a noise like a panther screeching, and Smokey turns left, sees this bright whitish/purple light, and immediately turns right, then we cut to Kate and Juliette in the tree...

I want to know what THAT light was...

Here's my thought on the lights.... Juliette reacted as if she was getting physically attacked or some thing was hurting her or making herextremely uncomfortable. It's my thought that Smokey was "imprinting" Juliette so that she would unknowingly ( or knowingly ) give up more information on the losties when she gets to the camp. And Ben and the Others are watching intently.

I dunno. When I saw Sayid's reaction to Juliette, that was the very first thought I had. Juliette's a plant and Smokey enabled her to be watched....

Just my $.02...

When the flashes happened, listen to the associated sound effects. My girlfriend's immediate reaction was, "That's Rousseau. She's the only one with an automatic weapon!"

Listen, again. It does sound like the sound of a machine gun. The light was the muzzle flashes in the darkness.

So often, we see something on LOST and try to make it all fit into a single idea. Sometimes, it's possible that two or more things are going on at the same time.

There are a ton of different noises associated with smokey. Last night we even heard some new noises he made. If you havent been to the whispers (http://thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=55358) thread, you may enjoy some "light" reading.

No one caught the flash of light that happens in the trees, before Smokey goes to where Kate and Juliette were hiding? I can't get a screen grab of it, but it happens at 21:32 on ABC's online player. It's during the POV of Smokey plowing through the tree tops. There's a noise like a panther screeching, and Smokey turns left, sees this bright whitish/purple light, and immediately turns right, then we cut to Kate and Juliette in the tree...

I want to know what THAT light was...

This is the best screencap of the light (http://homepage.mac.com/tonyagoodnow/lost/light.jpg) I could get. I watched this section of the show several times and smokie definitely turns left, sees this light, then turns back towards the right and continues heading for Kate and Juliet. Very intriguing.

There are a ton of different noises associated with smokey. Last night we even heard some new noises he made. If you havent been to the whispers (http://thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=55358) thread, you may enjoy some "light" reading.
There is no doubt that Smokey has a pretty good repertoire of sounds. I was just intrigued that the flashes seem to be a new thing and were accompanied by a noise that sounded an awful lot like a machine gun. That could have been all Smokey, for sure. It could also have been Rousseau stalking him and trying to scare him off with her gun. Or not. Who knows!

BTW: I find the "whispers" forum fascinating.

Another idea here: What if those flashes are not a downoalding or uploading mechanism, but something completely different?
I remember a while ago, I posted a theory about the Smokie mosnter being like a guardian dog (cerberus?) and those chain, roallercoaster sounds we hear, would be like a leash pulling on it...Perhaps those flashes were a way to tell Smokie to back off, like an electric discharge or message/command?

Yes; of course, the way I interpreted it was, Juliet had some condition, some quality (medicine? anti-"smoking" patch? Dharma clearance? I give up) that prevented Smokey from approaching. I suppose the lights were the latest parcel of Smokie information the writers chose to give us, there could be nothing more unusual except this is just the first we've seen it... but for some reason I assume the real difference in behavior is because of Juliet (and by extension, some condition existing in any of the Others).

Naturally there's no way to tell if anyone on Lost is telling the truth, but for the moment I'm choosing to believe Juliet was not entirely sure what would happen at that point. My presumption is she was as suprised as us with how things happened, in the trees.

It seems to me like Smokey scans someone, then decides what to do. When it flashed, it was doing the same thing as when we saw the flashes inside it when it saw Eko for the first time, but we were just seeing it from Smokeys perspective.This was my take as well. The flashes appeared to be Smokey "reading" Juliet, like it first did with Eko (brighter because it was night?). Then after it processed the information, Smokey returned to either drag her away or swing her around like a rag doll. But it definitely looked like it was targeting Juliet and not Kate.

I'm pretty certain that Juliet isn't scared of Smokey.She appeared pretty scared to me, both during and immediately after the encounter. (Seen here (http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage-1273-588.html).) :scared: Guess it's just a matter of opinion...

I'm not entirely sure the smoke monster emitted those flashes. After rewatching the scene more than once, I have the feeling that after the flashes, when we see the scene through Smokey's point of view, he seems to retreat fast, as if it were scared, as if the flashes scared it away.

In previous "scans", especially with Eko, Smokey's modus operandi seemed different: Smokey was moving slowly and it was "calm". Here, after the flashes, it really gives me the impression that it's running away.


Rick

This is the best screencap of the light (http://homepage.mac.com/tonyagoodnow/lost/light.jpg) I could get. I watched this section of the show several times and smokie definitely turns left, sees this light, then turns back towards the right and continues heading for Kate and Juliet. Very intriguing.I think it was just set lighting. The camera moves back and forth briefly (left/right) as if it's looking around, then continues forward. The light seemed static (and brief) enough to just be a minor production goof.

:46:All this talk of Eko and smoky is making me quite sad despite the fact everyone has very intriguing theories...* slowly backs out of thread.

I thought at first that maybe it was scanning, but if it was, they are changing how it works. When Eko was scanned, there was a different sound and the flashes were internal to Smokey. They weren't bright enough to light Eko up or make him cover his eyes.
I like the idea that it's more evidence of two different "monsters" and that Smokey was chased off by the "light" one. But that begs the question - why? Neither Kate nor Juliet seem like particularly good people. Unless the "light" one is actually the "bad" one and it was protecting bad people.
I think we are seeing something new here. Maybe it was trying to flush them out, or just see who was hiding in the tree. Of course, that begs the other question which has been around awhile - how does hiding in a tree protect you from something that is pretty good at riping trees out of the ground?

I think that it was merely Smokey scanning Juliet as it had not encountered her before.
I agree, and I think that now, when we have another Juliet flashback epi, something from her past will show up on the island, ala Christian, the horse, Eko's brother, etc. Smokey was finding out all about her so he can use it later.

Of course, that begs the other question which has been around awhile - how does hiding in a tree protect you from something that is pretty good at riping trees out of the ground?

Exactly. The following may be fodder for another thread...

I've wondered if Smokie isn't the one ripping the trees out. Maybe it's just Smokie reacting to the trees uprooting, because I think the trees are not being torn up as much as "pushed up" from underneath (tunnel system)?

Also, can we associate "horn blast" and tree uprooting occurrences with known Other movements? Here's what I'm getting at in this Out-There-Theory-Of-The-Day: Maybe the horn blasts and tree uprooting are being caused by something mechanical underground, like a rail system or something that is shearing the roots of trees as it is travels through old tunnels. It is this activity that alerts the smoke monster. Our Losties just happen to be in the general vicinity above ground as Smokie was initially going after the below ground source.

Now, I know it's been speculated that Smokie can take form from memory and all that, but the tree uprooting and horn sounding just doesn't jive with the light flashing and clicking activity. Who knows. Eko did take a good pounding. I just get the feeling that when Smokie makes his tree crashing, horn blasting appearances, there's more than one thing going on.

i think the others know how to block their thoughts from smokey
which is what Juliet was trying to do

the flashes were when he identified her as a hostile and that changed his course of action

he was after Kate but once he found out she was with one of their enemies it's plan changed

the second time he came after them it went straight for Juliet

I think it was just set lighting. The camera moves back and forth briefly (left/right) as if it's looking around, then continues forward. The light seemed static (and brief) enough to just be a minor production goof.

That was initial reaction, but after watching it a few times it seemed deliberate. So I think that other light is intentionally shown and it means something.

It appears as if Juliet makes a conscious effort to close and shield her eyes from Smokie. Possibly Smokie uses the eyes as the "way in" for scanning? You know, the whole "windows to the soul" thing.

You beat me to it!!! She was covering her eyes!!! Realizing that also got me thinking about eyes as "the window to the soul." (So many eyes in this show.) And that got me to thinking about, because of the camera sounds, some tribal peoples being afraid of being photographed because of fearing their souls would be stolen.

What's going on???!!!:uhh::uhh::uhh::uhh::uhh::uhh:

People keep saying that she was covering her eyes to block out smokie but I really dont think it was anything more than the fact that those flashes looked bright as hell. They werent the same 'scanning' flashes we've seen. They actually illuminated the area. also as some others have mentioned the two looked sunburnt actually. (off topic) maybe thats why they got covered in mud to make it less obvious. I've been wondering the purpose for that besides a mud bath after the chick fight =)

Just rewatched epi and watched this part in slo-mo. First of all, Juliet does not look scared. But as for the flashing from Smokey, Juliet tries several times to look straight at the light. It is hard for her because it is so bright. But she does and it darts away. What's up with that?

Remember in "The 23rd Psalm" when the camera moves through Smokey and we're sort of panning through the black cloud? There were definitely these small, white flahses going off inside of Smokie, like some kind of elcetricity. (Here's the scene I'm talking about, but the cap doesn't show the flashes... http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage-839-406.html) I would assume that the Juliet flashes are the same as Eko's- all part of the scanning process.

PS- what if we're all totally wrong about the monster judging the Losties? I've just kind of come to assume that that's what it does, but really, I have so little evidence that it could be doing something totally different! Who knows? :rolleyes:

I thought the "monster" appeared the very moment Juliet got hurt. So maybe it WAS the Cerebus, and sought to come and protect her. Hence Juliet's lack of "real" fear. And when it scanned her, it detected her perhaps telepathically saying, "I am not in danger, leave now." or something to that effect.

On the other hand, I have a feeling Smokey does not equal Cerberus.
I think there are two things out there.

Didn't the Smokie chase happen just after it started raining? Any chance it was lightning? Almost seemed like the wrath of the almighty and powerful island. Just wondering.

One opinion that no one has thought about is maybe Juliet caused the light. She is see closing her eyes. Perhaps through some concentration method she summons the light to scare away smokey or maybe they are even communicating. it doesn't make much sense but it is worth thinking about. Juliet did know that it was about to rain and we all know bad things happen when it rains so perhaps she was in communication with what brings both the rain and smokey.

People keep saying that she was covering her eyes to block out smokie but I really dont think it was anything more than the fact that those flashes looked bright as hell. after the chick fight =)

Agree that is part of it. Juilet did not cover her eyes when the moster came right for her at the fence--that part is bunk.

But Juilet and Juilet alone was in pain because of the flashes--kate did not react like her

Lets also remember something

Juilets behavior after the flashes was different. She was almost in a trance at the fence looking at smokey(like smokey was Magnificant). Lets also remember--Jacob is not forgiving. If smokey is jacob--the flaskes could have been him seeing Juilet is now marked and ripe for punishment. Might be might not

but like I said earlier..I thought the flaskes identified Juilet as being on the list

flashes were when smokey took photographs of K+J.

it did not recognize both of them, and didn't know what to do with them

smokey took the intel to it's master, which then gave smokey approval that it can kill them both, as they are not worthy

I also saw something when Smokey was near the fence. I haven't seen any references to it before the reference in this thread. I did not see "eyes". I saw what looked like legs of a 4 legged creatures. It reminded me of an elephant's legs.

Forget my last post; I was seeing things. I am pretty sure however that there is a face and maybe more than one face in this picture. If I failed to properly hyperlink the image it is one of the first images of Juliette and smokey.





http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage-1273-865.html

When Eko had his confrontation with Smokey in Season 2, the camera panned around and through Smokey. When we saw the glimpses of Eko's past inside Smokey it was accompanied by flashes of light. At least as far as I remember anyways...they weren't nearly as bright as the ones we saw with Juliet, but to me they looked like little flashes of lightning inside Smokey when we saw those images during Eko's confrontation

I found it interesting that Juliet appeared to have never experienced smokey before and had no idea what it was! If Juliet has ventured into the jungle on occasions before why has she/the others never seen this before (if she's telling the truth that is) . :undecide:

I'm sure Juliet knew more than she let on; the fact that she knew smokie wouldn't approach the fence made that clear to me. Which means she may also be aware of smokey's purpose and function?

HIM is always referred to (and revered by) the others - if Smokey isn't known by the others it's not likely to be HIM... Although - I could see a "keeping an eye on them" argument that Smokey is HIM... Good question!

Maybe smokey is controlled by the Hostiles? If they exist?

I posted in another thread that perhaps the Others' way to protect themselves from Smokie may be thru brainwashing ala Karl. Perhaps when Smokie confronted Juliet, it failed in reading her as a 'threat-target for deletion' hence the flashes and then its quick retreat.

Maybe Juliet knows about Smokey but has never encountered him. They have a fence around the barracks and tunnels to take them across the island. She has managed to avoid him till now. Maybe Smokey is the reason for both the fence and the tunnels. There may be a protocol to follow in the event you might encounter Smokey (be still, quiet, cover your eyes...) but they try to avoid being in this situation.

Another thought...if Smokey is not smart enough to go over the fence, he may be lacking in other areas too. Maybe The Others khaki/brown jungle costumes are to camouflage them in the event of a Smokey encounter. Perhaps Smokey can't "see" the way we do. If he has similar difficulties "hearing", that may be the reason The Others are so well trained at walking without making sound.
Maybe Smokey tracks people by something else, like emotions. Fear, guilt, anger.... Again, maybe that is why The Others (except Pickett) seem to be lacking emotions - they have trained themselves not to show or express them.

I am in the camp that thinks the lights were a result of Juliet being scanned. Smokey retreated in a hurry, alarmed by something he picked up, then returned to finish the job.

Personally, I think Smokey is neither a creation of Dharma or the Others- it's something more deeply rooted into the island that pre-dates both factions. If the Hostiles vs Dharma war is to be believed, I think that somehow Smokey played some sort of role as a catalyst in that respect. What exactly that is, I don't know. But from what we've seen of it, I think it ties more with Jacob ("HIM") with the judgement/forgiveness and good/bad aspect. One could say that means the others would know about it, but considering we know very little about Jacob and what surrounds his character, I'm still inclined to believe Juliet was telling the truth. I think Ben may know, but anyone recruited perhaps does not.

What about this? They ran from Smokey the first time and hid in the banyan tree. It flashed them and went away. Then, the next morning, it chased them again when they came out. So...is Smokey more solid than he looks? Why not just go between the trunks of the tree? Someone has said Smokey may have been scared of Juliet because she's an Other, but why would it chase them again when they came out?



I think that Smokey recognized Juliet and thus did not harm her. The flashes were
Smokey scanning her image and comparing to a database of 'friendlies'. The reason
that Smokey later tried to attack her is that she had fallen in mud and was no longer
recognizable.