so who bought the idea that the other losties would "look to sawyer" to be their leader? i dont buy it. he was generally disliked, however useful he mightve been because of his supplies.

however, i found it interesting that hurley orchestrated the whole thing and made sawyer buy into the idea of being a leader. he made sawyer "make amends", and by the end of the episode, people seemed to actually like sawyer a bit.

Well, it's true that he's the most likely candidate right now, given the other options. I'd say Desmond would be the #1 choice, but he hasn't been around for as long, and he's been quite mysterious lately, what with the foresight and all. Plus, I think he would be even more reluctant than Sawyer.

I love it when Sawyer gets conned. Especially when it's by someone like Hurley, who you wouldn't expect to do something like that. Overall, I thought it was an excellent B-plot.

I thought Hurley would be a better leader than Sawyer. I love Sawyer but I don't see him as a leader, sorry. He sits all day under the sun, reading books while everybody else contributes. How that makes him a leader?? I'm sure there's a lot of Red Shirts that would make better leaders... it just that the show isn't about them (I had enough Red Shirt episodes with Pikki).

Hurley for president!!!

Sawyer has been having a tough time with the Losties, Hurley is probably the most caring person on that island. It was just nice to see him show Sawyer the light for once. Sawyer said it best when he was talkin to Desmond, people like him. He needs to learn to like them in return, and not just look at them as annoyances.

I think Hurley was just saying that to Sawyer to.. butter him up a little. I don't think the Losties would really turn to him. I mean, really, it's Sawyer!! ;)

Hurley did say "temporary leader". At least Sawyer has stepped in to help when needed: going after Ethan, heading out on the raft, going after the others after Ana Lucia was killed. Also with his "conning" background, he is more likely to think things through and not act impulsively.

Hurley is awesome. i love his character and how he just really tried to look out for Sawyer

Sawyer is most certainly the strongest willed character on the beach and the one with the toughest image i guess i dont know if that qualifies him for anything

but hurley is definitely the one pulling the strings

ha ha ha!!

I LOVED teh Sawyer Scenes!! They were hilarious!!

TAKE ME TO YOUR LEADER!!!! :naughty: :drool:

Sorry - had to say it!

I thought Hurley was just conning him - I really didn't see him being leader - And I LOVE him!

Wonder if when Jack comes back he will be so relieved he doesn't have to be leader - OR if he will want to fight for his position?!? That would be FUN-NY!!!

So, are you guys saying that Hurley is Sawyer's Locke? I love it! :24:

Hey, for some reason people follow Capt. Jack Sparrow. If Sawyer turned everyone into pirates he'd be the perfect leader.

Hurley is awesome. i love his character and how he just really tried to look out for Sawyer

Me too! Hurley is one of my two favorites so I was glad to see the role he played in helping Sawyer. Hurley is just such a good guy, so funny and nice, but at the same time, cunning and intelligent. I love him! :smile:

And while I do think Sawyer has potential as a leader - he does step up when needed - he has conned people on the island, been incredibly selfish, and sit around when people needed help. So I didn't fully buy that he'd be the next go-to guy for leader, but whatever. I think Desmond would have been the best bet, but I can see with his new-ness that might not be the case yet. I really hope this episode starts Sawyer permanently on the path to redemption and becoming a more responsible, 'decent' person.

Also, I liked how Hurley mentioned how Jack was reluctant to be the leader too. I love the Sawyer-Jack relationship and maybe this will give them common ground? I would really like to see those two interact outside of the god-forsaken triangle!

In short, go Hurley!

I can see how they'd look to him. The guy has been through a lot on the island and is still kicking. His experiences, and the things he's been in on (ie: the raft, the Ethan trek, going after Michael, and then the Walt trek and his subsequent imprisonment) outweigh his misdeeds (ie: The inhalers, the gun con, being "mean")

Desmond hasn't been there enough as said, and Hurley just isn't leader of the pack material, he's more of a behind the scenes kind of guy as they showed in this episode.

i wonder if we will learn some unrealized twist to Sawyer's heritage that suggests he was destined to be leader from the start

So, are you guys saying that Hurley is Sawyer's Locke? I love it! :24:

I agree that this is clearly what the episode was trying to set up. It seems as if Hurley will be taking Locke's place as the 'wise old sage' of the 815ers now that Locke has run off with the Others.

But I agree with some of the other comments that Sawyer is completely unsuitable for leadership material. Selfishness is still Sawyer's principle trait, and that is one trait a leader can't afford to indulge in.

In any case, why should they just look to men for leaders? In these circumstances, I think Sun would be the natural leader, she's intelligent, compassionate, and relatively level headed (for an 815er ;) ).

I really hope this episode starts Sawyer permanently on the path to redemption and becoming a more responsible, 'decent' person.


I agree ZoeWashburne...at first I was annoyed that they were doing another 'Sawyer Always **** Up" episode. They have been showing his con-man, self-centered, isolated side ever since he came back from the other island, and I felt his character needed to either just be 'bad', or find some peace and get 'good'. Thanks Hurley!

We've had some great eps and storylines about leadership...and now maybe they are showing us the unlikely leader who has to build some credibility and faith among the fellow castaways. Winning over Sun will be tough.

I'm just hoping they give him some stable, redeeming qualities because I'm sick of the snarkiness! It's been over-the-top lately.

In any case, why should they just look to men for leaders? In these circumstances, I think Sun would be the natural leader, she's intelligent, compassionate, and relatively level headed (for an 815er ;) ).

Great point! All things considered, I think she would be the best choice for leader at that time. As you said, Sawyer is too selfish. I think he can and will change by the end of the show, but I don't think he's at the place yet where he could lead everyone.


I'm just hoping they give him some stable, redeeming qualities because I'm sick of the snarkiness! It's been over-the-top lately.

Yeah, I've been feeling that a bit too. I don't mind Sawyer as comic relief (and as a Hurley fan, I appreciate someone else fulfilling that role for now) but I do think it has been a little much of late.

Sawyer said it best when he was talkin to Desmond, people like him. He needs to learn to like them in return, and not just look at them as annoyances.
I think Sawyer replied "meat," not "me," when Desmond asked him what people like. That's why he was hunting boar? Maybe I heard it wrong, I don't know. :confused:

so who bought the idea that the other losties would "look to Sawyer" to be their leader? i dont buy it.

however, i found it interesting that Hurley orchestrated the whole thing and made Sawyer buy into the idea of being a leader.

Yeah, nothing like a little honey to bring the fly in! lol But no, I don't buy it either. It wouldn't work. I'd love to see Hurley as leader, but as others have said, I don't think he'd be comfortable taking a main leading role.

I don't see Desmond as leader, because the rest of the Lostaways wouldn't trust him as much, due to his strange history on The Island. Also because he's a bit of an alkie. He doesn't seem to be drinking as much now, tho', so that's good.

I love it when Sawyer gets conned, too. And yeah, we certainly didn't expect it to be Hurley.
Does this mean he's learning to be BAD on the Island? Yikes, hope not.

Hurley for president!!!

I agree! Where do I vote? :)

Hurley was absolutely brilliant tonight! He is SOOO good at understanding people and he totally has Sawyer pegged. He can see that Sawyer acts tough and stand-offish and selfish but underneath isn't really a horrible guy. He may not know anything about who Sawyer was pre-island or what happened to him as a child but I think Hurley is perceptive enough to see that Sawyer is wounded and has never had close relationships with people or been part of a group/family/society.
I think Hurley has been chipping away at Sawyer for a long time. Sawyer can say some really hurtful things to Hurley, but Hurley seems to let it go and keep giving him more chances. Hurley is sweet and caring and knows that there is more to Sawyer underneath his abrasive exterior and is truly trying to help him let down those walls against people to show him it's ok (and he also proved how much Sawyer NEEDS them all).
I thought the beach scenes tonight were wonderful and hilarious. I love that Hurley conned Sawyer with his whole, "I'm not supposed to be here" sneaky beach conversation. And watching Sawyer struggle to figure out how to interact with people was hilarious and touching at the same time. The fact that he held Aaron and seemed not to hate it was really sweet and the genuine smile he flashed Sun was wonderful. But I think he quickly realized it's going to take a lot more from him to make things up with Sun.
And I think he really does feel bad for the Sun thing too. There was never really any real rancor between them before (other than a little light teasing he readily gave her the pregnancy test, his nickname for her was sweet, not derogatory [Sunshine] etc.) And Kate and Sun are close. So he is going to have to really dig deep to find a way to win some forgiveness and trust from Sun and I think he knows that, especially after the few exchanges tonight.

Sorry to ramble so much, but I really loved this B-plot tonight. I adore Sawyer, and Hurley too, so it was a great story to me.
:smile:

Edited to add: As for Sawyer and the leader thing. It makes sense in some ways and not in others. I think it's also possible that Hurley was feeding that to Sawyer as a continuation of his drawing Sawyer out of his self-imposed shell. Sawyer was part of the "A-Team" so him being a leader makes sense from that standpoint. He knows how to handle a gun, is smart and cunning and tough. And when the chips have been down he has shown he is capable of being heroic. Even though they may not love him, those qualities could make him a leader. Or, again, it could just be Hurley working his psychology on Sawyer. Not sure.
But based on the preview it looks like
his leadership role won't last for long. Poor Sawyer!! :cry:

I don't think Sawyer will make the best leader right now, but I think Hurley is right in that the idea of leading will be something that helps Sawyer become a better person. Hurley is very insightful that way. He really knows what people need. And I love that he conned Sawyer in this eppy! So much fun to watch! :biggrin:


Hurley for president!!!


I agree! Where do I vote? :)

Well, it won't make him president but if you really want to vote for Hurley, just click the link in my signature! He could really use some help. ;)

Sawyer has been having a tough time with the Losties, Hurley is probably the most caring person on that island. It was just nice to see him show Sawyer the light for once. Sawyer said it best when he was talkin to Desmond, people like him. He needs to learn to like them in return, and not just look at them as annoyances.I agree. Also Sawyer was in "the circle" or whatever you want to call it and the rest of the beachies know that & I'm pretty sure no one has forgotten how tricky it was of him to take all of the guns and declare himself the new sheriff!

PS I loved how he kept trying to smile at Sun, I was really really really hoping he would've gone over and apologised sincerely to her tonight.

I'm with the people who think that Hurley just wants a front man. He will make decisions etc, but have Sawyer up front. Hurley wouldn't want to do it on his own so he has someone to be the leader but will be his advisor. Of course as posted above, not for long...damn

Sawyer will be Hurley's puppet.

Seriously, I think Sawyer would make a great leader: he's courageous, decisive, creative, can tolerate taking risks, tenacious, and honest. (JK about that last one). I think if he thought the people put their trust in him, he would do his best for them.

And for those of you who want Hurley as president, why not write him in?

I don't think that Hurley is anywhere near strong enough to be a leader. He's got people skills and he's generally regarded as the nice guy, but that's all. Sawyer isn't exactly role model material yet but he's very strong willed and good at getting what he wants. I think that he's the only capable of leading them at this point. :undecide:

I think we witnessed TPTB setting up Sawyer to be one of the leaders by the end of the season. Jack is coming back...but what will everyone think of him if its learned that he cut a deal to leave the island and leave everyone behind?!?!

I can see Sawyer as a leader in the way that he has certain qualities that a leader needs, qualities that most other people left on the beach might not have.
However, I think mostly Hurley was playing with Sawyer's ego, because the traits that disqualify Sawyer as a leader nearly outweigh his qualities.
What's more important, though, I think that while Sawyer is flattered at the idea that people look to him as a leader now - whether that's true or not - Sawyer doesn't want to be a leader. That position involves far more commitment and entanglement than Sawyer is willing to give to the group. He's having a hard enough time seeing himself and acting as a part of the group, he's simply far too selfish and self-centred to be a leader.
So I think he likes the idea of people looking up to him, but he'd bail out of it as soon as the responsibilities would force him to do things he'd normally not do.
However, I can imagine that he might have slight problems with Jack trying to take that role again should he come back anytime soon. He's always had problems with how Jack was handling his leadership position, once he gets to know that Jacko made a deal with the Others, things are going to get ugly...

Sawyer as leader...naaah he's intelligent but way too selfish to be the leader, he'd be to concerned about guns and people looking up to him he wouldn't be able to make a clear decision. Looking at leaders i'd say Ben was a great leader for the Others, even if he isn't THE ULTIMATE leader of them. Cunning, calculating, intelligent, not afraid to get his hands dirty, and really REALLY persuasive.

If i looked at who i wanted to be leader of the losties i'd say it should be the person most like Ben, and IMO that is Sayid.

Sayid for leader. What a guy.

However, I can imagine that he might have slight problems with Jack trying to take that role again should he come back anytime soon. He's always had problems with how Jack was handling his leadership position, once he gets to know that Jacko made a deal with the Others, things are going to get ugly...

I am looking forward to this. It should be very interesting. All of the interpersonal conflicts coming up will be fascinating to watch unfold. {Rubs hands together in eager anticipation}

but hurley is definitely the one pulling the strings

Wouldn't it be a mind-scruk if Hurley turned out to be the Cobra. Talk about a con!

I think Hurley putting Sawyer forward as leader is maybe one of the dumbest storylines I've seen. Only the episode before, Hurley was practically accusing Sawyer of being involved in Nikki and Paulo's deaths. And thats who he'd want as leader?.

Apparently leader on this show, is just the people who are the most vocal because to be honest I think Claire, Charlie, Hurley, Desmond would make better leaders individually than Sawyer would in the stead of Jack/Locke/Sayid/Kate.

I think Hurley putting Sawyer forward as leader is maybe one of the dumbest storylines I've seen. Only the episode before, Hurley was practically accusing Sawyer of being involved in Nikki and Paulo's deaths. And thats who he'd want as leader?.

Well, Hurley was wrong about Sawyer being involved in their deaths...but he was witness to some of the detective work that Sawyer pulled off. Although Sawyer tried to steal the diamonds, he also was able to figure it out. I think it's pretty obvious that Sawyer has intellect, and Hurley is just trying to help him use it wisely, so to speak.

I agree that Sun may be the better leader, but since most of the 'leading' on Lost has to do with adventuring through the jungle, it would be hypocritical of her to be part of that since she has pretty much told Jin he'd better stay with her on the beach. She seems much more dedicated to her family (Jin and the baby) than to the group (though not in a selfish way.)

I don't watch the previews, so I don't know what next week will bring, but I think when Sayid/Kate/Jack/Juliet come back, I would like to see Sayid, Kate and Sawyer leading together. Jack and Juliet seem to have their own grouping, though since I think Juliet is infiltrating on behalf of the Others, it won't last forever.

Well, Hurley was wrong about Sawyer being involved in their deaths

Yep but the fact that he could even suspect him as having a role in it is pretty terrible and doesn't exactly bode well for Sawyer being given the leadership role.

Personally I do think Sawyer is very intelligent and he has been countering his selfish ways but the idea of Hurley suggesting him being the leader completely threw me. It was a total 'BZUH?' moment. They've been getting on perfectly well without a leader, and Sawyer has never been very popular down on the beach. Until now apparently. I've felt this season they've been trying to turn Sawyer into a character he isn't.


I don't watch the previews, so I don't know what next week will bring, but I think when Sayid/Kate/Jack/Juliet come back, I would like to see Sayid, Kate and Sawyer leading together. Jack and Juliet seem to have their own grouping, though since I think Juliet is infiltrating on behalf of the Others, it won't last forever.


Jack is probably going to be trying to integrate Juliet into the group. I don't think Jack and Juliet are going to set up their own little camp down the beach or something. Anyway there is a spoiler saying that

Jack will be forced into the leadership role once again

He lays down the law, doesn't think with his heart, and he doesn't take anyone's crap.
For the situation they're in on the island, that's the kind of leader they need.


If they want a hippie love commune, go find Ben.

I think it's pretty obvious that Sawyer has intellect, and Hurley is just trying to help him use it wisely, so to speak. .


I agree. I really felt as if Hurley was trying to coax a little self-confidence out of Sawyer, who is obviously a bit demoralized (and demonized) lately. His asking Sawyer to step up and assume a position of leadership in the absence of their obvious leader--Jack-- was more a gentle nudge than an actual request. Hurley is obviously a good reader of people, and Sawyer needed to be reminded that he actually is an Alpha Male; and while he needs to be directed appropriately, he does have a valuable role within the Losties. I loved this little con of Hurley's, continue to enjoy the evolution of Sawyer's conscience (rough road that it is), and look forward to next week's "reunion."

Cheers--
*hiccup*

I really felt as if Hurley was trying to coax a little self-confidence out of Sawyer, who is obviously a bit demoralized (and demonized) lately.
.....
I loved this little con of Hurley's, continue to enjoy the evolution of Sawyer's conscience (rough road that it is), and look forward to next week's "reunion."

Yes, this is it right here!

Sawyer's problem with everyone and everything is his lack of self-esteem. He has taken on the "Sawyer" persona long enough that he really feels he IS a 'bad man', like Cassidy said. I think one of the mysteries I'm waiting to see revealed is whether or not he can overcome that, and become a 'good man'.

Personally, I would love to see him redeemed. His cons are interesting, his nicknames and sarcasm sometimes funny, BUT his negativity can be really tiring and sad. I think the right thing to do is to have him change...not to be Mr. Sensitive, but to be James Ford. He may have some reinventing to do, but with Hurley and Kate and others helping, hopefully he can become an interesting, witty, and nice guy.

And I'm wondering if/when Kate and Sawyer will have a discussion that reveals their connections to Cassidy.

And most everybody laughed at me last week after I suggested that Hurley and Sawyer were kinda jockeying for position as the new leader. But none of this matters because Jack is on his way back.

Yes, this is it right here!

Sawyer's problem with everyone and everything is his lack of self-esteem. He has taken on the "Sawyer" persona long enough that he really feels he IS a 'bad man', like Cassidy said. I think one of the mysteries I'm waiting to see revealed is whether or not he can overcome that, and become a 'good man'.

Personally, I would love to see him redeemed. His cons are interesting, his nicknames and sarcasm sometimes funny, BUT his negativity can be really tiring and sad. I think the right thing to do is to have him change...not to be Mr. Sensitive, but to be James Ford. He may have some reinventing to do, but with Hurley and Kate and others helping, hopefully he can become an interesting, witty, and nice guy.

And I'm wondering if/when Kate and Sawyer will have a discussion that reveals their connections to Cassidy.

I feel the same way, actually. I think Sawyer, deep down, is a better person than even he wants to believe. It's easier to be the bad guy, it's a more comfortable role for him, and no one is ever let down when you mess up. He's just now learning that power isn't what he thought it was - he became Sawyer originally to avoid being victimized, to avoid being too emotionally close with anyone.

I, too, enjoy Sawyer's evolution as a character - I think that when he wants to be referred to as James, the transformation will be complete. As it is, we're seeing more of this name rolled around here and there - perhaps a foreshadowing?

Re: his status as leader - I think that given the opportunity, scary as it is for him, Sawyer would step up and lead. Note that he continues to hand out food, and smiles at folks, and heck - even holds a baby like he's running for president - AFTER Hurley has fessed up about the leader thing. He looked like he liked the idea, at least a little. And he was the most badass guy they had left, after all. :biggrin:

Sawyer is the best...if you were on the island not doing s&*t you would want sawyer as the leader too...he's willing to fight

Swayer as a leader would be just like having ***Mod edited***!Only Sawyer is smart,handsome and a sweetheart!

Swayer as a leader would be just like having ***Mod edited***!Only Sawyer is smart,handsome and a sweetheart!

Wait, you mean you don't think ***Mod edited*** is smart? Or handsome? JK:biggrin:

Sawyer is all those things, even though he's done some really nasty things, deep down he's a sweet man who cares about people's feelings. (although I don't like the fat jokes, poor Hurley, that's just mean) He's just afraid of letting down his guard long enough to show them the sympathy he feels inside for them when he sees he's hurt someone.

Swayer as a leader would be just like having ***Mod edited***!Only Sawyer is smart,handsome and a sweetheart!

note your edited post. politics have no place on this board. period.

note your edited post. politics have no place on this board. period.
hmm...im not gonna comment on this as youre the man with power here!:cool:and politics having nothing to do with Lost is somewhat inaccurate in my humble opinion,as everything on this show is about philosophy and politics,thats why we love it so much in the first place right?its like real life!
well, message received,anyways:lipsseal::lipsseal::lipsseal:
100%
Wait, you mean you don't think ***Mod edited*** is smart? Or handsome? JK:biggrin:

Sawyer is all those things, even though he's done some really nasty things, deep down he's a sweet man who cares about people's feelings. (although I don't like the fat jokes, poor Hurley, that's just mean) He's just afraid of letting down his guard long enough to show them the sympathy he feels inside for them when he sees he's hurt someone.
haha!Come oooooon,fat jokes are so grade school they only make Sawyer more adorable,!!!:69:

hmm...im not gonna comment on this as youre the man with power here!:cool:and politics having nothing to do with Lost is somewhat inaccurate in my humble opinion,as everything on this show is about philosophy and politics,thats why we love it so much in the first place right?its like real life!
well, message received,anyways:lipsseal::lipsseal::lipsseal

this is me telling you that i am not buying into your "innocent" act. :mad: your commenting to me in that way is in fact A COMMENT. seriously, have you no internet etiquette? there are two topics that are to be left alone and not discussed in polite circles. politics being one and religion being the other. unless of course you are on a board specifically for those topics. you may want to make note of this and consider this a warning to leave these taboo topics alone or face the consequences. also, you should know that your attitude and flippant remarks to those in "power" like the mini mods etc have grown tiresome. you may want to add that to your list of things to keep in check.

not that it matters but i am NOT a man.

. also, you should know that your attitude and flippant remarks to those in "power" like the mini mods etc have grown tiresome. you may want to add that to your list of things to keep in check.

.
i really,really didnt see that coming!!!i must confess you genuinely shocked me there!my attitude????please,could you be more specific?i respect that we re not allowed to talk about politics and religion,you are right about that of course!and thats a rule for most forums on the web.But id really appreciate it if you could explain to me the reason ive tired you with my remarks:undecide:
Anyhow,i m not here to fight or offend anybody,so ill just stick to the basics hoping theres no grudge held,whatsoever.Im sorry if i broke the rules,adding that by no means i did that on purpose.Im really sorry,all the same.
Maria
PS Now that i think of it,this thread is about Sawyer so my heartfelt apologies to the original poster too,for making this reply..Sorry OP.:(

I was a bit torn about Sawyer being 'elected' as a leader too. On one hand - I think Hurley himself would make a better leader, not to mention that that would give him more storylines, but on the other hand - this was a wonderful redemption and character progress opportunity for Sawyer, so I'm not entirely sure where I stand on this :undecide:

I'm wondering if/when Kate and Sawyer will have a discussion that reveals their connections to Cassidy.

That'd be fun to watch. I hope we get to see it.
But --sarcasm here-- wouldn't that come under the heading of communicating, which is something the Lostaways are really bad at doing? :)


I wouldn't mind seeing Sawyer as leader, simply b/c that'd mean we'd get to see more of his character. But overall, I really believe that Sayid would make a better leader. Sawyer is easy on the eyes, but Sayid makes better decisions.

Just imagine how everything on the island would be so different just IF Sawyer had sat and discussed the contents of one of the books hes read ,with one of the Losties!Remember Bad Twin??Hes read half of the manuscript!!!!The plot is extremely similar to everything weve seen.And Cindy was the guys fiancee!Well,if our Losties had a book club and Sawyer was a better talker,things would be waaaaay changed now!:rolleyes: