when Locke saw smokey the first time he said he saw a bright light.

Eko said that wasn't what he saw at all


tonight when it met up with Juliette and Kate, we saw bright flashing lights....


Is it something different to everyone?

All our Losties did was to put together some trees and they were over the fence. Why hasn't Smokey figured that out?

What a fantastic scene. So, I just want to be clear on the meaning of Juliet's statement. Are we to assume that Smokey has been around seemingly forever? Pre-dating Dharma, Ben's entire life on the island, and more? Just looking for a little brainstorming and insight on this one.

Good question. And Smokey seems to be able to go high up in the air, so it should be able to scale the fence. I don't get it.
But it was really cool to see.

Smokey seemed to be Light when scanning Juliet but Dark at the fence. :confused:

Because that would make too much sense.

Good question. And Smokey seems to be able to go high up in the air, so it should be able to scale the fence. I don't get it.
But it was really cool to see.

Smokey seemed to be Light when scanning Juliet but Dark at the fence. :confused:

Makes sense, since we haven't seen light Smokey, and we didn't see Smokey for some reason that time.

I think it's the flashes of light are bright white but smokey itself is dark. It's very confusing though.

I think that's why Juliet stood there and looked smokey in the eye, so he would dive straight for her, and smash right into the fence, instead of flying over it. It's another mind trick by the others and this time they are playing with smokey.

I admit I assumed the fence wasn't for Smokey. Boy was I wrong. There must be some reason he can't go over it that we don't know.

I think an even bigger mystery is,
how are tree trunks sufficient protection from a smoke monster?

All our Losties did was to put together some trees and they were over the fence. Why hasn't Smokey figured that out?


The fence only makes sense if Smokey is somehow "attached" to the ground and cannot go 'over' the fence. It can't go 'over' as the bottom of it would swing towards the fence and smash into it. That's why I so far think the fence works.

D/

I think it was light on Juliet because she is "good"
and Dark at the fence because it was seeing Kate - and she is seen as "bad"

Although I don't trust Juliet at all - I do believe before she came to the island she was a good person unlike Kate

I am wondering if the monster doesn't go OVER the fence because it sees them through fears and the fence prevents the monster from feeling the feelings that brings him out

I think an even bigger mystery is,
how are tree trunks sufficient protection from a smoke monster?

Yeah really. :D Kate loves to hide in the same spot. Walt did the same thing when the polar bear attacked him. I just think Kate figures the last time she hid there she was safe so she'd try it again.

I think its either one of two explanations....

1) the flashes are Smokie doing whatever it does with the memories (in the slomo of the Eko encounter, all of Eko's memories were flashes too)
2) there's two monsters, one good and one bad - and the flashes were them colliding with each other while fighting

Juliet isn't good. She stared straight at it because she knew the fence was in between them. She's brave, but she isn't good.

I got the impression that Smokey backed off again because of Juliet, not because of the fence. I think Juliet stood there to make Kate think she felt protected by the fence--when in reality she knew Smokey couldn't or wouldn't hurt her.

i think it was scannign her, or feared jukiet.. thats why it shone light in her..

Smokey flying into the fence didn't strike me as weird. Why do birds fly into the window instead of going over the building?

I think it was light on Juliet because she is "good"
She tried to get Jack to kill Ben. Juliet is not good.

I got the impression that Smokey backed off again because of Juliet, not because of the fence. I think Juliet stood there to make Kate think she felt protected by the fence--when in reality she knew Smokey couldn't or wouldn't hurt her.

Nice theory!

All our Losties did was to put together some trees and they were over the fence. Why hasn't Smokey figured that out?

Well first smokemeister has to scan a brain that can make what the Losties put together. Then get some hands and a axe, lol. I don't think legs are need to walk up the tree though.

Smokey flying into the fence didn't strike me as weird. Why do birds fly into the window instead of going over the building?

That doesnt make any sense. Birds fly into windows because they want to go to what is behind the window.

Smokey wanted Juliet, or Kate, who were behind the fence, but that doesn't explain why he/it didn't just lift over the fence like the Losties did? If they didn't die when they went over the fence, then it obviously doesnt go up very far. And it's not very deep. So why can't Smokey clear this little barrier? Either it's attached the the ground, so it can't, or it just doesn't make sense.

I dont know if they would take the time/money to build such a sophisticated fence if smokey had the ability to just go over it.

i think it was scannign her, or feared jukiet.. thats why it shone light in her..

I definitely think it was scanning her. We've seen it flash like that before, like when Eko came face to face with it the first time. So far Smokey is 1/2 when it comes to taking out people who have stood their ground with him. So, is Juliet's # coming up, or will she be like Locke?

Either way, I do think she was telling the truth when she said that she didn't know what Smokey was. That would make it a DHARMA thing, and not 'the hostiles.' Maybe a holdover from their hostilities?

The monster looked contained as if it knew somehow it could not pass thru the Sonic fence. The monster looked the same as when it attacked an killed Eko, so I think it was in attack mode. IMHO it was after both Kate and Juliet. They have both been bad girls, they have both killed someone.

Also, Smokey apparently comes up from the ground, why not just come up on the inside of the fence?

What a fantastic scene. So, I just want to be clear on the meaning of Juliet's statement. Are we to assume that Smokey has been around seemingly forever? Pre-dating Dharma, Ben's entire life on the island, and more? Just looking for a little brainstorming and insight on this one.

Dude, it's Juliet. She can't be trusted. Take anything she says with a boulder of salt.

my guess is that it's something similar to what grocery stores do with their shopping carts. they do something so that they don't go a certain distance from the store. perhaps it's the same thing with smokey.

But if smokey can make it all over the island why not go past the fence - there has to be more to it -
And I can't help but think about something that was said in season one that ABC wanted a monster -

Is it really a smokey monster - or is it conjured up by emotions and the idea that buttons were pushed and a "fence" went up made Kate and or Juliet feel secure and safe and therefore the emotional monster couldn't feel their presence and therefore disappeared?

Well, she's right about one thing...Smokey really doesn't seem to like the fences.

Maybe to be safe, the Losties should move into the abandoned village, have Juliet turn the force field (or whatever it is) back on and keep smokey out.

I think Juliet was telling the truth about Smokey. I'm wondering why it flashed when it saw them. It was like it recognized her. She knows more than she's telling and it makes for great tv.

Smokie definitely seems unaffiliated with the Others. Juliet seemed genuinely terrified and confused when the monster first came around.

Though I suppose she could be acting about not knowing what it is, I don't think the monster has anything to do with the Others or is controlled by them obviously; it probably predates even Ben.

At first Juliet was like "What the he** was that", then she say's "We don't know what it is, but we know it doesn't like our fences." So she pretended like she didn't know what it was at first. Lying- typical Others fashion. :biggrin:

Smokie definitely seems unaffiliated with the Others. Juliet seemed genuinely terrified and confused when the monster first came around.

Though I suppose she could be acting about not knowing what it is, I don't think the monster has anything to do with the Others or is controlled by them obviously; it probably predates even Ben.

I'm with you, Zoe. I swear, I've been able to tell when Juliet's being a manipulator and when she's been genuine. Her smug look changes slightly :)

At any rate, I thought she seemed legitimately confused and terrified as well. I originally thought that the sonic fence was there to keep out intruders or 'hostiles' or keep in The Others recruits. Now I'm wondering if it's purely a smokey security fence.

I agree the she was telling the truth about the monster...

But that scene begs one important question...

If they could climb over the fence in an earlier eps, why didn't the monster just *fly* over the fence? :confused:

IS it possible that what came to the fence and what came after them with the white light are two different things

One evil one good - one light one dark? And Juliet really didn't know the light one?

I'm wondering why it flashed when it saw them. It was like it recognized her.
To me it appeared that the monster was somehow repelled by Juliet. After the flashes we got a monster's perspective shot of it retreating into the jungle; backing away from the cluster of trees where Kate and Juliet were hiding. Perhaps the Others have been using the CR 4-81516-23 42 vaccine and "CR" is an acronym for Cerebus Repellent.

What a fantastic scene. So, I just want to be clear on the meaning of Juliet's statement. Are we to assume that Smokey has been around seemingly forever? Pre-dating Dharma, Ben's entire life on the island, and more? Just looking for a little brainstorming and insight on this one.

I would guess that it came when Dharma came. . . but did they build the fence for Smokey or because of Dharma? Maybe Dharma built the fense and the barracks and The Others just took it over? I can't wait until next week!

It looked like Kate was thinking, "I don't have to run faster than the monster. I just have to run faster than Juliet." :biggrin:

I think that the Others/Juliet do know more about Smokey than they're saying but that they do think of it as a danger to be avoided and guarded against.

Where would Kate have gone though - funny that she knew that the others were leaving - they were not careful to hide the fact they all had backpacks on - had she not been going back for Jack where would she have gone to hide from Smokey -
And did Juliet take her back to use the fence to protect her?

Does Juliet know if the monster can go to the other island?

I think the creators just didnt think it through and are making stuff up as they go. Can you say Manatee Idea Balls.

Since the Others left, are they not protected from Smokey now? Smokey is sure gonna have some new prey that isn't protected anymore.

The smoke Monster is an electromagnetic manifestation. The Producers say that everything on the Island can be explained by a scientific principle. Hence the Monster needs a "Ground-Plane" to exist.Very similar to a transmitting antenna and hence a receiving antenna.Whether or not it can be manifested by thoughts is conjecture at this point, but an idea that has some validity. The human brain runs on different frequencies, Alpha & Beta Waves are just two of them. So , I believe that it is a possibility.

Why can't smokie go over the fence like Locke, Sayid and Kate did?

Kate should've said, "We don't know what it is either, but we know it doesn't like the ocean." I only say that because we have never seen Smokey on the beach. Could it be that Smokey doesn't like water?

Has Smokey ever come up onto the beach? I'm asking because maybe Smokey is safeguarding the middle of the island. Maybe Smokey could have gone over the security perimeter, but is playing mind games with the Others, letting them think they're safe there, content to chase them away from whatever's in the island's interior. As long as people stay on the island's outskirts, and don't go inland, does Smokey leave them alone? (With obvious exceptions, such as Locke, who wants to protect the island.)

it could also go under the fence.

Ok, so a lot of people seem to think that the smoke monster is able to change shapes and appear differently to people (Yemi, the horse, Walt, Christian, etc), so is it possible that the monster was "scanning" Juliet and reading her mind, so maybe later it can appear to her in the jungle?

It kills some people, but spares other people. Is it arbitrary? Or is there some reasoning behind it?

I think she was saying AT THAT MOMENT she just found out that smokey didnt like the fences.
Earlier in the episode she didnt even know what it was.
100%
Why can't smokie go over the fence like Locke, Sayid and Kate did?
It has to do with where Juliet was standing. Somkey to me is like a wild animal and attacked her without thinking and seemed to get harmed.

Without knowing more about the smoke monster and the sonic fence, it's hard to say one way or another how it all works. It's possible the sonic pulse that is emitted between the fence posts extends higher than the actual posts (in both directions - up in the air and down into the ground). It's also possible the smoke monster isn't smart enough to know there is a fence there at all. Just my thoughts ...

Why can't smokie go over the fence like Locke, Sayid and Kate did?

it seems to have some sort of link to the ground- it comes up from the ground, and pulls trees from the ground. maybe there is something underground guiding it? maybe the fence breaks the connection with whatever controls it, which may come from underground?

Aren't we fairly certain that it's range is limited? That it only "patrols" certain areas of the island- ie, NOT Tailie territory for example.

Remember when Locke got dragged along the ground by smoky and then almost underground...there was a chain rattling noise during this sequence. I'm guessing that smoky is somehow routed to the ground and that's why it can't go over the fence. Why not underground?? Maybe it can't make new holes underground - only travel tunnels that are already there.

I think the chain rattling noise has a lot to do with it.

I have to say I do get tired of the snarky comments like - because that would make sense. I don't understand why these people bother posting anything at all.

I think the big hoax is that Smokey is intelligent.

Maybe he's more like a wild animal... like a dog collecting bones.

I just wrote out my take, so I won't be redundant:

http://thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=74927

Are we to assume that Smokey has been around seemingly forever? Pre-dating Dharma, Ben's entire life on the island, and more? Just looking for a little brainstorming and insight on this one.
hmm, good question. But how do you get that from what Juliet said? It didn't make me think that it'd been there forever. Maybe just since Juliet arrived...3 years. Maybe just since Dharma arrived. Maybe released by Dharma. There's no telling, IMO.

Dude, it's Juliet. She can't be trusted. Take anything she says with a boulder of salt.
LOL...boulder. Isn't that the truth!

The Losties should move into the abandoned village, have Juliet turn the force field (or whatever it is) back on and keep smokey out.
That's what I said! Juliet & Kate know for sure that they'll be safe in the village. I can't understand why Jack didn't say right away, like he did with the caves: Let's move everyone off the beach and into these homes right now. \
I mean, what wouldn't the Lostaways give just for electricity about now???

We also wondered why Smokey couldn't just fly over the fence, the same way Kate & comp. did earlier.
Could it possibly have "feelings" like rage, where it just charged directly toward Juliet, cuz it was mad? ?? wierd.

IS it possible that what came to the fence and what came after them with the white light are two different things

One evil one good - one light one dark? And Juliet really didn't know the light one?

hmm, now there's an interesting idea. I could see that.

Kate should've said, "We don't know what it is either, but we know it doesn't like the ocean."
Or, she should've just said it to be dishonest w/ Juliet, the way the Others have been to the Lostaways. Just to keep her off-guard.
100%
P.S. I forgot to mention that I love that tag-line:

1. Never tell everything at once.
-- Ken Venturi, Ken Venturi's Two Great Rules of Life

maybe the smoke monster reads their minds and decides whether to proceed as black smoke or white, shiny goodness. it read juliette (or kate) and decided she was good, then f***ed off.

Another possibility could center around cerberus which had three heads. Maybe the black smoke is one head while the white flashes come from a different head?

if it flashed white light at juliet then what she saw while looking into it was white light. therefore she saw what locke saw (he described it as a white light), as opposed to what ecko an charlie saw (dark smokey cloud). maybe 'good' people see the white light and 'bad' people see the dark smokey cloud?

did kate flinch from the light or was it only juliet who flinched? that might be a hint if kate didn't flinch than maybe she saw something different from what juliet saw...

Maybe the flashes happened since this was the monster's first time actually seeing Juliet and it was reading her for the first time? Oh Man! I have NO idea! When smokey finally gets explained, I will be completely shocked if any of it makes sence to me :p

My thought is it is definitely different for each person. I also think it was reading Juliet, her past, her fears, what's important to her. Not only as a form of judgement, but also for future use.

Did you believe her when, after she'd already lied about Smokey once, she said they didn't know what it was?

I love hearing the sound it makes...takes me back to the excitement of the Pilot.

I think she was saying AT THAT MOMENT she just found out that smokey didnt like the fences.
Earlier in the episode she didnt even know what it was.

If you believe her. :rolleyes: I don't know what she knows but I know that I am remaining suspicious of everyhting she claims to know. Or not know for that matter. :D

What if the smoke "monster" isn't sentient at all, and is under someone's control that wanted Kate to feel threatened, then protected by Juliette? False sense of security just to mess with Kate's mind?

I agree the she was telling the truth about the monster...

But that scene begs one important question...

If they could climb over the fence in an earlier eps, why didn't the monster just *fly* over the fence? :confused:

You assume Smokey has problem solving intelligence. Maybe it hasn't. Maybe it's not programmed to jump over fences.

Did anyone see two smoke monsters at the fence. It seemed to split into two clouds after it was repelled from the fence.

Did anyone see two smoke monsters at the fence. It seemed to split into two clouds after it was repelled from the fence.

thats what i thought, waiting for a clip to show up. i was also thinking that the monster at night is different from smokey, definately sounded different, almost like an elephant

It may have no climbed the fence because it cant fly. It is floating, yes, but if u rewatch every smokey scene u see that it is only STRETCHING itself, but it cant get any higher.

Maybe the monster couldn't scale the fence b/c the "wall" extends upwards too. Look it in terms of horizontal and vertical planes ... you turn the power on and the wall extends from left, right, up and down in for an unknown distance.

What a fantastic scene. So, I just want to be clear on the meaning of Juliet's statement. Are we to assume that Smokey has been around seemingly forever? Pre-dating Dharma, Ben's entire life on the island, and more? Just looking for a little brainstorming and insight on this one.

I think Juliet is lying when she said they dont know what it is. Smokey obviously reads thoughts...we know this from when it was scanning Mr Eko in Season 2. The Others are getting personal information from somewhere. Why send out for reports when you can tap into old smokey. Juliet was already lying about having the key....(misinforming through ommision of the facts is lying), I just dont trust this new angle.

Good question. And Smokey seems to be able to go high up in the air, so it should be able to scale the fence. I don't get it.
But it was really cool to see.

Smokey seemed to be Light when scanning Juliet but Dark at the fence. :confused:

That doesnt make any sense. Birds fly into windows because they want to go to what is behind the window.



I'm in line witht he two people below.

I think the big hoax is that Smokey is intelligent.

Maybe he's more like a wild animal... like a dog collecting bones.

I just wrote out my take, so I won't be redundant:

http://thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=74927

You assume Smokey has problem solving intelligence. Maybe it hasn't. Maybe it's not programmed to jump over fences.


I don't know why so many people are assuming that Smokey is capable of deductive reasoning... maybe it is only as smart as a dog or a bird. It's certainly possible that Smokey is highly intelligent, but do we have any evidence of it?

Did anyone see two smoke monsters at the fence. It seemed to split into two clouds after it was repelled from the fence.

It seemed to WANT to split, or to stretch, or to do pretty much ANYTHING to get past that barrier, didn't it?!? It looked like what it was: a desperate... thingy... thrashing furiously about, engaged in a vain & frenzied attempt to best an enemy that it had repeatedly failed to defeat in the past.

Its efforts were futile, as we saw, and to understand why we need only think of it as a living magnetic field, which is apparently held firmly at the tip to what another poster called the "groundplane".* (And though this doesn't bear directly on the situation at hand, I believe it is also a "hive-minded" creature, comparable in its "thoughts" and actions to a swarm of bees.)

Imagine, if you will, a metal Slinky (tm) with one end bound to a large flat steel plate by an powerful magnetic attraction; you can slide the Slinky (tm) around anywhere on the plate, and you can stretch it a pretty good ways but cannot pull it free.

Let's say our friend Slink... er, Smokey wants to go OVER the mean old fence. He probably can! However, since his tail end is stuck on the far side, he can't get his "head" very far into the forbidden area without dissipating himself, or literally "stretching himself too thin".

I'm at a loss for an equally simple playground-level metaphor to illustrate Smokey going underground, but nonetheless let's imagine that he can do so. Again, his tail would get hung up at the fence-line, and the act of passing through solid material would almost certainly take MORE out of him than his lighter-than-air form would suffer in climbing over the barrier!

Finally, I think everyone is pretty much on the same page as to why he can't go THROUGH the "force field" so with that I'm gonna go ahead and spike the ball while shouting "Q.E.D."!

- mnw


*(The "groundplane" was invented in the early part of the 20th century by the celebrated "Wrong Brothers", Benville and Lockley.)

Maybe the fence, once activated, reaches higher than the pillars themselves which gives Smokey no access....

All our Losties did was to put together some trees and they were over the fence. Why hasn't Smokey figured that out?

I think Smokey is attached to Craphole Island. It's a series of tubes--I mean holes.

What impressed me most was that we had Smokey's perspective in the first encounter tonight. THAT was pretty cool.

Did anyone see two smoke monsters at the fence. It seemed to split into two clouds after it was repelled from the fence.


It formed from 3 mini-smokies. See: http://img246.imageshack.us/img246/8486/capturejn0.jpg

What interested me the most was we heard smokey almost immediately after Kate dislocated Juliet's arm. Is it drawn to "bad" behaviour?

Maybe the fence works differently with the smoke monster. Remember Locke threw the other through the fence, the smoke monster was blocked by the fence.

Maybe the fence keeps Smokey out due to the composition of what makes Smokey up. There is always a machine like sound when it is around. Could that have something to do with it.

To me, Smokey is one of the biggest unanswered questions that has gone on forever!

I think that we are all assuming that the fence is what killed patchy. I am not so sure of this. how long was it before he started foaming at the mouth and shooting blood from his ears? Was the amount of time shorter than what it took Juliet to arm the fence? I do believe that smokey can't cross the fence, and that the fence barrier doesn't end at the top of the posts, but I don't believe that the fence was active when Patchy got killed, something else did that to him, or he took some pill or something to cause what happened. i don't think it's as easy for smokey to just go up and over as everyone is suggesting.

What bothers me is that we seem to (at least from the producers POV) be getting two different types of monsters. The one that found them in the trees (that we don't see) is presented with the feel of a robot, it's noises seem to at least give off the feel of a bi-pedal mechanism/robot. The one that chases them to the fence does not seem to have the same signature feel. Perhaps smokey has two forms? In any case it was nice to get a good look at it for a change.

I think an even bigger mystery is,
how are tree trunks sufficient protection from a smoke monster?


I wondered this too. Gives off a kind of "Arnold mud covered in Predator" feel, doesn't it?

I had a different take on the whole smokey/fence thing than most I guess. I thought it was huge reveal and actually answered some questions, in typical Lost fashion.

I've always assumed that smokey was human-like b/c of some of the abilities it appears to have. Last's night epi proved my assumption to be wrong. It is not human-like, it can not reason, and it seems it can not do anything more than what it was created (either by people or by nature) to do. Yes, it is an advanced creature, seemingly able to scan people's thoughts/minds/emotions, it can take the form of various things, it can kill, but I think that's about it. I look at it like I look at many of our modern technology. We have technology that can detect things, like a polygraph, EKG, etc., but they're limited in what they can do. No matter how advanced a polygraph is, it cannot reason. It does specifically was it was designed to do and no more. That's our smokey.

Juliet stated that they know it doesn't like the fences. That implies that it's run into the fences before which means that smokey can't learn. It's not a form of AI, it's a machine-like creature that can only work within the limits in which it was created.

I agree that it seems more like an animal now. I have always regarded it as the dark side of the Island, the opposite to the benevolent force that does things like curing Rose and making Locke walk again.

I trust Juliet, for the record. She is a victim.

"We don't know what it is, but we know it doesn't like our fences."

By saying this, Juliet implied that the fences were not built to keep Smokey out. I think the fences were built to keep everything out (animals, Dharma?), and the Others know Smokey doesn't like their fences based on observation. So it is possible Smokey was developed after the fences were put in.

I am still wondering if the fences keep things out or are they there to keep thing in?

Bottom line smoking can stetch to 30+ feet and make itselff very narrow so he could (if he knew it) stretch over the pylon between the two fields and back down the ground on the inside and then detatch from the ourside area keeping constant contact with the ground and staying out of harms way.

• It either does not know it can
• wants others to think it can't
• or is afraid of Julia ( was that why she handcuffed herself to kate to save her from Smokey?)
• Or it is a TPTB want you just to overlook that error as TV magic.

One thing I think people might be missing ( or maybe I did )

WASN'T Smokey on the inside of the fence ??

It was not keeping him out - it kept him IN.

After they were on the OUTSIDE of the fence and smokey went away they went back to the beach area. SO smokey was on the inside of the fence - not the outside.

"We don't know what it is, but we know it doesn't like our fences."

By saying this, Juliet implied that the fences were not built to keep Smokey out. I think the fences were built to keep everything out (animals, Dharma?), and the Others know Smokey doesn't like their fences based on observation..
Exactly. I was going to post this very thing. The phraseology makes it clear that the fences' impenetrability to Smokey is a secondary benefit.

Maybe a sign reading "WELCOME TO OTHERVILLE. POPULATION CLASSIFIED. WE THANK YOU FOR NOT SMOKING" would have worked just as well.

Maybe the fence, once activated, reaches higher than the pillars themselves which gives Smokey no access....

Excellent point if you ask me.
The fence is obviously triggered by something/someone passing between two of its pylons (like an IR light barrier), but it seems unlikely that whatever waves it emits to repell/kill are as limited, they may well extend a good deal above and below the height of the pylons (and even to the small gaps above and below each pylon).

Of course, Smokey could easily overcome this by jumping over the pylons without triggering the fence, but it would need basic problem solving capabilities, senses and memory for that.

To me, it looked a lot like Juliet stayed purposely near the fence after activating it and looked Smokey in the eye, because she knew that it would charge straight at her and crash into the fence (and NOT try out a more fancy strategy).

I know that Locke & Co. scaled over the pylons and it therefore would seem that smokey could easily go right over it. But what if the only reason that Locke & Co. were able to scale over it was because the power was off. Mikhail could have faked his death and in truth the range of the fences could have gone much higher. That would be why smokey couldn't make it over. The way Juliet just ran right through without much though made me think that they don't really keep the fences running. I know I wouldn't just run right across when there was a chance that someone could have left the fence on. Just a thought.

I always thought it had to do with a person's past and stuff..i wonder if we'll ever know the mysteries of the smoke and all the other stuff they introduced but never got back to.

"We don't know what it is, but we know it doesn't like our fences."

By saying this, Juliet implied that the fences were not built to keep Smokey out.

If she was telling the truth... I'm not certain that she was.

Maybe a sign reading "WELCOME TO OTHERVILLE. POPULATION CLASSIFIED. WE THANK YOU FOR NOT SMOKING" would have worked just as well.

ROFL @ "population classified"

Maybe the fence, once activated, reaches higher than the pillars themselves which gives Smokey no access....

I think if that were true then Kate and co. would have been zapped when they went over it.

Or it is a TPTB want you just to overlook that error as TV magic.

I'm thinking this is the one.

A couple of people almost said what I am thinking. Almost
They can now get rid of Smokey!!!
All they have to do is lure it inside and start up the fence trapping it inside.

I'm thinking this is the one.

People were saying similar things when Ben was revealed to have a tumour. They will address that in the future.

WASN'T Smokey on the inside of the fence ??

It was not keeping him out - it kept him IN. Smokey was on the outside. After the Smokey Scene, Kate and Juliet went into the village to get Jack and Friend.

I think she was saying AT THAT MOMENT she just found out that smokey didnt like the fences.
Earlier in the episode she didnt even know what it was.I didn't get that impression at all. The comment and her tone of voice (in response to Kate's WTF look) suggested she was "coming clean" about her supposed lack of Smokey knowledge. Juliet didn't appear surprised about the efficacy of the fence at all.

I didn't get that impression at all. The comment and her tone of voice (in response to Kate's WTF look) suggested she was "coming clean" about her supposed lack of Smokey knowledge. Juliet didn't appear surprised about the efficacy of the fence at all.

I concur.

What made me wonder is why did Juliet turn the switch to RED and turned it on.

Why not turn it to GREEN to turn it on?

What made me wonder is why did Juliet turn the switch to RED and turned it on.

Why not turn it to GREEN to turn it on?

It's like a traffic light... green means "go", red means "stop". In this case it means "Stop, or your brain will leak out through your ears".

maybe 'good' people see the white light and 'bad' people see the dark smokey cloud?So Juliet didn't see that big black cloud pressing up against the Sonic Barrier?

(Kate wasn't shown during that sequence, so I don't think we were supposed to infer the scene was from her perspective...)

Remember the smoke monster can take on different forms. To Eko, it appeared as Yemi and black smoke. I don't think the monster has a light side vs. dark side; the flashes were part of its mechanism.

It's like a traffic light... green means "go", red means "stop". In this case it means "Stop, or your brain will leak out through your ears".

LOL -

But wouldn't it be more likely to be red means stop since for most everything BUT traffic lights Red is stop -

I think it is two monsters. Before the light we hear the Dino monster (loud honking dinosaur noise, stomping feet noise and we see trees high up moving, also camera view is high up and through the trees). Then we hear the cricket scratching noise. At first it is far away. Then it gets closer, and then we hear it only. Then the white light with only the cricket scratching noise exactly when the light flashes. Listen to it. Anyone got a jpeg of it for us. This sequence is amazing aurally.

I haven't done it yet, but if we went back through the appearances we may be able to distinguish the sounds. I want to go back to echo's death. Is there the cricket scratchy noise? or not?

rewatching the epi. why didnt smokey just go over the fence like kate did. i mean smokey knocks over trees and flies yet he cant go over the fence.

makes me think its all an act.

Same thought here. It certainly can go anywhere it wants to, and the away team went over the sonic fence.

Actually, I thought about this some more and I believe it's both light and dark. This idea makes sense because of the way the backgammon pieces were described by Locke back in season one: one piece, two sides. One side is white, the other black.

Maybe it was the equivalent of an electric fence for Smokey. There any many animals that are kept behind electric fences they could jump if they really wanted, but after first one or two times they make contact with the fence, they tend to just keep their distance since they don't want to get hurt. Most animals don't have the rationalizing capabilities we do to realize we can just climb over it, and I believe neither does Smokey.

I think it was more like if a dog got scared. The fence surprised smokey, maybe scared it. Instead of trying other ways to get around it just ran off.

um is smokey an animal or some kind of mind sponging oracle of sorts?

is smokey an idiot?

Well, at least, he seemed to be one in this episode.

Maybe it was the equivalent of an electric fence for Smokey. There any many animals that are kept behind electric fences they could jump if they really wanted, but after first one or two times they make contact with the fence, they tend to just keep their distance since they don't want to get hurt. Most animals don't have the rationalizing capabilities we do to realize we can just climb over it, and I believe neither does Smokey.

That is a real good point!

Maybe it was the equivalent of an electric fence for Smokey. There any many animals that are kept behind electric fences they could jump if they really wanted, but after first one or two times they make contact with the fence, they tend to just keep their distance since they don't want to get hurt. Most animals don't have the rationalizing capabilities we do to realize we can just climb over it, and I believe neither does Smokey.


smokey can become yemi, a horse, christian, and cooper but he doesnt have the critical thinking skills of climbing over a fence. c'mon now? it implied that the others control smokey. juliet kept looking at it becuz she knows its operated by someone and wanted to see how far this person would go.

Smokey could have easily built a ramp out of the trees so that it could hover up over the fence. I'm guessing like all wierd mysteries in Lost, we'll never find out the answer. <sigh>

Smokey wanted Juliet, or Kate, who were behind the fence, but that doesn't explain why he/it didn't just lift over the fence like the Losties did? If they didn't die when they went over the fence, then it obviously doesnt go up very far. And it's not very deep. So why can't Smokey clear this little barrier? Either it's attached the the ground, so it can't, or it just doesn't make sense.

Or maybe it's all a scam: the others are controlling Smokey, and this was all a pantomime to convince Kate that the Others know a little about Smokey (it fears the sonic fence) but not a lot.

Now why Juliette would do this, I have no idea.
100%
I would guess that it came when Dharma came. . . but did they build the fence for Smokey or because of Dharma? Maybe Dharma built the fense and the barracks and The Others just took it over? I can't wait until next week!
Perhaps the fence stops Smokey, and Smokey won't go over the fence, simply because Dharma designed Smokey that way. You don't want a security system that will attact your enemies but you have no defense against yourself.
100%
The way Juliet just ran right through without much though made me think that they don't really keep the fences running.
I assumed that Ben and Co. had disabled the fence in order to make their escape while everyone else was unconcious with the gas.

Also, I'm sure that an Other like Juliette just knows whether the fence is on: maybe there is a subtle sound it makes, or a light somewhere.

smokey can become yemi, a horse, christian, and cooper but he doesnt have the critical thinking skills of climbing over a fence. c'mon now? it implied that the others control smokey. juliet kept looking at it becuz she knows its operated by someone and wanted to see how far this person would go.
Smokey may be, or may appear to be, strong, fast, powerful, all-knowing, But I'm not sure how intelligent it is.
If it is a living, breathing creature, it may be no more intelligent than a squirrel in your back yard.
If it's not a living thing, then it might be operating on protocols and maybe software. Which means it will try to do one thing, one thing only, regardless of its surroundings. In which case the Others' fence might have disrupted its tasks.
I just think we don't have enough info on Smokey yet to state why it does, or doesn't, do what it does. Just because it can 'be' certain things, doesn't automatically imply it's intelligent and self-aware.

What made me wonder is why did Juliet turn the switch to RED and turned it on.

Why not turn it to GREEN to turn it on?

It's fairly common to have a security system show "Green" when not armed / stand-by and "Red" when armed.
100%
rewatching the epi. why didnt smokey just go over the fence like kate did. i mean smokey knocks over trees and flies yet he cant go over the fence.

makes me think its all an act.

You are assuming that smokey has problem solving intelligence, but this has never been established. Perhaps smokey is programmed to bounce around, knock over tree and fly in "explore" mode and charge straight ahead when locked on to a target, in this case Juliet. Noticed how Juliet was standing in a similar posture to Mr. Eko in 23rd psalm, so it is not unreasonable to expect smokey to behave the same way.

Another thought: Don't the Others have a problem with Smokey roaming freely in Otherville?
I'm thinking: once the fence is off, Smokey can enter -> should they ever return to the village, there's a good chance that Smokey is inside the perimeter.

Note: that keypad Juliet used to enter the code is clearly on the "other" side of the fence.

I think it is two monsters. Before the light we hear the Dino monster (loud honking dinosaur noise, stomping feet noise and we see trees high up moving, also camera view is high up and through the trees). Then we hear the cricket scratching noise. At first it is far away. Then it gets closer, and then we hear it only. Then the white light with only the cricket scratching noise exactly when the light flashes. Listen to it. Anyone got a jpeg of it for us. This sequence is amazing aurally.

I haven't done it yet, but if we went back through the appearances we may be able to distinguish the sounds. I want to go back to echo's death. Is there the cricket scratchy noise? or not?

I like the 2 monster idea...can you imagine the scene if we see the White light Smokey fighting the Black Smokey. 2 opposite forces at work. This could jive with what the Losties saw during one of their first nights on the beach when the Monster(s) seemed to be going back in forth in the jungle, shaking the trees from left to right and back again.

Smokey may be, or may appear to be, strong, fast, powerful, all-knowing, But I'm not sure how intelligent it is.
If it is a living, breathing creature, it may be no more intelligent than a squirrel in your back yard.
If it's not a living thing, then it might be operating on protocols and maybe software. Which means it will try to do one thing, one thing only, regardless of its surroundings. In which case the Others' fence might have disrupted its tasks.
I just think we don't have enough info on Smokey yet to state why it does, or doesn't, do what it does. Just because it can 'be' certain things, doesn't automatically imply it's intelligent and self-aware.

Or Smokey is just a tool used by the being who became gives people hallucinations. Once Eko failed the test that being said "Smokey. Kill." and bye bye Eko.

This is kind of a reply to the guy you quoted too.

I apologize if this has already been discussed.

What if when the losties were going over the fence it really wasn't armed. I have read in other posts that the Other that Locke pushed through did not really get killed. Maybe he was just setting the losties up so they would be to afraid to cross the fence whether armed or not.

All we can do is speculate about Smokey right now and make comments based on the observations from when it has been present. It has been with the show since the very first episode. We don't know if it is an organic, living being or if it is some kind of technology that can be controlled by some unknown force or even person (Jacob perhaps).

I do believe it has the ability to take shape, such as Jack's Dad, Eko's brother, etc. And I believe it has the ability to read into people, like it seems to have done with Locke and Eko.

To me, Smokey, smoke monster, Bob, whatever you call him, is one of the biggest mysteries on the island. I look forward to hopefully gaining more insight into this strange phenomenon, as I'm sure everyone here does.

I think this question is easily answered by one of two choices:

1. The smoke can stretch, but at least a part of it needs to be near the ground.

2.. The smoke is not a sentient being that can figure out how to get through a barrier - afterall remember that it couldn't get into the Banyan tree either, so maybe it is not smart enough to comprehend barriers.

You guys are forgetting key points. The others lie constantly, we all know that but part of there lies are true. I think the Russian they talked to told them a little truth as to what happened on the island. And he admitted they weren't the Dharma people. Smokey, or the monster or whatever, could have been a weapon of some sort when the dharma people fought the others. Or it could be the 'accident' that is constantly refered to on the videos and on the hatch map. I'm definetly putting my money on it being created by the Dharma people.

I definitely agree that there's a light and a dark side to smokey. I don't know if it means there's 2 smokies, I just think that smoky has a jekyll and hyde persona, haha.

Eko saw Smokey as a dark substance- he then died
Locke, Kate, Juliet saw Smokey as a bright light, flashes of bright light- they haven't died...yet..(?)

I definitely agree that there's a light and a dark side to smokey. I don't know if it means there's 2 smokies, I just think that smoky has a jekyll and hyde persona, haha.

Eko saw Smokey as a dark substance- he then died
Locke, Kate, Juliet saw Smokey as a bright light, flashes of bright light- they haven't died...yet..(?)

There's clearly only one smoke monster, albeit seperable into three parts (Hence 'Cerberus'). In this ep we got to see that the 'Lostzilla' monster of the first season (bellowing, lumbering, tearing up trees) is in fact definitely the 'Smoke Monster' (as seen by Eko and Charlie) of the second. There was some doubt (at least in my mind) as to whether there was more than one 'monster' as the two seemed to be quite different in terms of the sounds and effect they had on the environment. This definitely resolves that. The flashes appear to be the monster scanning juliet as we saw it do to Eko. If you look the the freeze frames of that encounter you see that it seems to be reading memories from him as it flashes (you see images from Eko's past in the smoke). Seems that on first encounter, Smoky 'reads' the person then goes away and has a think about them. We know that it's killed at least one person (Eko) on a subsequent meeting. It also tried to drag Locke underground the second time (we're assuming that's what he saw in the jungle early in S1) he met with it. What is really unclear is why we don't see it for long periods of time allowing the characters to roam around the jungle with complete impunity. It looked at the start of the show like it was going to be an ever-present menace in the jungle but it has been disgregarded by the losties it seems.

I am still wondering if the fences keep things out or are they there to keep thing in?

Bottom line smoking can stetch to 30+ feet and make itselff very narrow so he could (if he knew it) stretch over the pylon between the two fields and back down the ground on the inside and then detatch from the ourside area keeping constant contact with the ground and staying out of harms way.

• It either does not know it can
• wants others to think it can't
• or is afraid of Julia ( was that why she handcuffed herself to kate to save her from Smokey?)
• Or it is a TPTB want you just to overlook that error as TV magic.

EXACTLY! Apart from the bit about Julia which there is like zero evidence for :biggrin:

I have found myself saying 'no no no' whilst reading this thread. This post covers it though. There is more explanation needed about why Smoky can't get over the fence. The fence clearly doesn't function vertically, as is illustrated when John, Kate and Sexy Sayid make it over whilst it's turned on. We have seen Smoky turn into all kinds of shapes, and when it approaches Eko in Season 2 and scans his thoughts, it seems to be floating, not attached to the ground. Anyway, we don't know enough about Smoky and its limits, so we just need to wait and see if there ever is an explanation.

Why isnt anyone talking about the most interesting fact? maybe someone has, but i didnt find it. Okay, someone back me up on this......

When Kate first woke up handcuffed to Juliet, she got the knife out of Juliet's pocket. Now, as soon as Kate opened the knife, thats when Juliet suddenly woke up and grabbed kates arm. Now it didnt look to me at all like Juliet woke up simply because of the noise from Kate opening the knife. It looked like, Juliet was awake and (along with the others) was sort of testing kate to see what she would do. Once she opened the blade, Juliet had no choice but to grab her arm, for all she knows kate was going to kill her right there.

And for the biggest clue I havent seen mentioned.....did anyone else realize that they were handcuffed for who knows how long....but the entire time Juliet had a pick that she could of used to release the cuffs?? Once again, as soon as she felt she was in actual danger(the monster)..she quickly reached into her pocket pulled out the pick and released the cuffs so she could go activate the fence that smokey is so scared of.
Now why wouldnt she of uncuffed herself at the beginning?

This tells me two things.

1. Being handcuffed to Kate is a setup.

2. The others really are scared of smokey.

However I dont think the fence was built specifically for smokey because if its true that the others know of smokey but dont know about it or what it is(which I believe) than how could they know enough to build a fence that somehow protects them. I think the monster justs happens to not do well with whatever the hell that fence thing is.

Why isnt anyone talking about the most interesting fact? maybe someone has, but i didnt find it. Okay, someone back me up on this......

When Kate first woke up handcuffed to Juliet, she got the knife out of Juliet's pocket. Now, as soon as Kate opened the knife, thats when Juliet suddenly woke up and grabbed kates arm. Now it didnt look to me at all like Juliet woke up simply because of the noise from Kate opening the knife. It looked like, Juliet was awake and (along with the others) was sort of testing kate to see what she would do. Once she opened the blade, Juliet had no choice but to grab her arm, for all she knows kate was going to kill her right there.

And for the biggest clue I havent seen mentioned.....did anyone else realize that they were handcuffed for who knows how long....but the entire time Juliet had a pick that she could of used to release the cuffs?? Once again, as soon as she felt she was in actual danger(the monster)..she quickly reached into her pocket pulled out the pick and released the cuffs so she could go activate the fence that smokey is so scared of.
Now why wouldnt she of uncuffed herself at the beginning? .

They're good points, but I think the reason people haven't commented about it here, is because this thread is about the smoke monster not being able to get over the fence, even though it seems like it should be able to.

Very well. I can understand that.;)

I think that the reason that smokey flashed when Kate and Juliette were in the trees is because it was "recognizing" Juliette. When it was able to "see" Juliette, smokey retreated. My theory, for what it's worth, is that smokey was after Kate alone, not Juliette. Juliette activated the fence to protect Kate (for unknown reasons...but the others obviously want the losties alive). Remember, Danielle said that smokey was a security system...maybe he protects the others.

Smokey flying into the fence didn't strike me as weird. Why do birds fly into the window instead of going over the building?

Actually they fly into some windows because they see the sky reflected in it and don't know it's solid and not the sky.

Maybe the monster couldn't scale the fence b/c the "wall" extends upwards too. Look it in terms of horizontal and vertical planes ... you turn the power on and the wall extends from left, right, up and down in for an unknown distance.

As has been pointed out numerous time, Locke and company climbed over it so it can't extend up.

I know that Locke & Co. scaled over the pylons and it therefore would seem that smokey could easily go right over it. But what if the only reason that Locke & Co. were able to scale over it was because the power was off. Mikhail could have faked his death and in truth the range of the fences could have gone much higher. That would be why smokey couldn't make it over. The way Juliet just ran right through without much though made me think that they don't really keep the fences running. I know I wouldn't just run right across when there was a chance that someone could have left the fence on. Just a thought.

I guessing Sayid knows a dead body when he sees one so I think the Russian is dead. Juliet didn't run through an active fence. The Others turned it off when they left. When she saw the control box she no doubt noted the light indicating it was turned off.


smokey can become yemi, a horse, christian, and cooper but he doesnt have the critical thinking skills of climbing over a fence. c'mon now? it implied that the others control smokey. juliet kept looking at it becuz she knows its operated by someone and wanted to see how far this person would go.

We don't know this. People have specualted about it but we have no proof that it can appear as anything other than smoke.

Another thought: Don't the Others have a problem with Smokey roaming freely in Otherville?
I'm thinking: once the fence is off, Smokey can enter -> should they ever return to the village, there's a good chance that Smokey is inside the perimeter.

Note: that keypad Juliet used to enter the code is clearly on the "other" side of the fence.

I guess they have abandonned the village and so don't care what happens to it. Also, it may be that smokey doesn't care about a place that doesn't have people.

I think smokey is going to turn out to be something we can't even imagine yet. If Juliet is being at all truthful about it being there before them it could be associated with the giant 4 toed foot. There are more inhabitants on that island than the two groups. The whisperers are out there somewhere and we know nothing about them.

We haven't begun to see all that's going on with this place.

I wondered this too. Gives off a kind of "Arnold mud covered in Predator" feel, doesn't it?

That's funny, when the landed in the mud I was thinking "cover yourself in mud and it won't see you" - heehee

To the person who said the control panel is on the other side. No it's on the same side that Juliet's standing on. You can see it here... http://lost.cubit.net/forum/gallery/1_05_04_07_12_33_46.jpg

I agree that we have no evidence that smoky manifests as anything other than smoke. It's pure speculation so far. It is odd that Yemi appeared and then the smoke came along and killed Eko but that doesn't mean that the smoke = yemi. It could be that Yemi was the test (manifested by someone in control) and then the smoke comes along after he fails the test. It could also be that the two have nothing to do with each other and we are just led to believe they do. When we see Sayid's cat, there is no indication of smoky nearby or in any of the scenes before or after.

I like the idea that smoky isn't intelligent but is just doing what it's programmed to do. That makes a lot of sense when you consider that hiding in the tree also seems to stop it...it can't figure out what to do next. Could this be tied in with Mikhail's computer "cheating"??

Sorry if this has been brought up, but perhaps the fence does go up, emanating from the island and channeled throught pylons. The losties are insulated somehow from this by the tree. Maybe it cut a swath in it above the pylon. Wood makes one excellent insulator, I know that about electricity. Not up on my electromagnetism though.

I agree with the following statements:

1. Juliet is a plant of the Others. She knew she would be handcuffed to Kate, dumped in the jungle, and she was never knocked-out, etc. It was done to help bond them together, like Kate's flashback to Sawyer's ex-girlfriend, who befriended Kate. I notice that Lost does this frequently,....they use a flashback to highlight something happening current day.

2. The fence was down because Juliet was supposed to be able to return to Otherville, to get Jack and Sayid, in the event she felt that Kate had accepted her, to some extent, which I think Kate did. I am not saying she likes Juliet...

3. The monster is not sentient. It is some type of mechanical 'guardian'. The flashes were mechanical,...you could hear the monster 'clicking' when it flashed, as if taking pictures of Kate, and Juliet.

Things that boggle my mind:

1. The fact that Ben, and Juliet, and presumably the Others, are willing to place themselves in harms way in order to assess the Losties, i.e. Ben's operation (which I say was a set-up,...yeah, I know he needed it, but he could have left the island to have it done, imo). I think the Others are contemplating assimilation of Losties into their group, if they are found to meet certain lofty criteria.

Now, Juliet who is left in the jungle, at the monster's mercy,...she and Kate had to go a distance to find the pylon with the fence controls. I think this goes along with my theory that the Others would do 'anything' to gain access to the Losties,...into their true selves. But,...Ben leaving Juliet there for the monster to kill??? That's a huge risk to me, as we saw,...maybe the monster doesn't kill the Others, maybe they are too 'good' to kill??? hmmm...

The monster didn't not kill Kate, because she was with Juliet,...and Juliet has been deemed, by the monster, as a good person?....Remember, they were handcuffed together then,...but the monster still ran at Juliet when she put the fence up,....or was it focusing on Kate who was standing behind her???

2. The fence being down concerned me in that if the monster was on the lose, wouldn't it be able to enter Othersville,...and perhaps, kill Sayid and Jack? I doubt it would harm Jack, but the monster seems to be the 'judge and jury' of morality, and many would say that Sayid deserves justice. Again, perhaps the monster does not kill the Others, since it deems them as 'good',...?

3. The monster seems to be a two-part item. To me, it appears firstly, to make horrible sounds, gets into attack mode, in that it begins to tear up the jungle as it approaches it's victims, and then the smoke appears.

Why couldn't the smoke just go over the fence??? When the fence is in working order, why can't the smoke monster go over it like Kate, Sayid, and Locke? Instead, it appeared to hit it like a bird hitting a patio door. It looked like it may have been focused on Kate, not Juliet,....or perhaps, the monster was just threatening,...?

Did anybody notice that when the monster makes it's initial sound, birds fly overhead, screaching??? Are the birds some kind of tracking mechanism? Are they even real birds? They cannot be early warning signals, because the monster appears so near the birds fly-over, that nobody could escape upon hearing the monster, upon hearing, or seeing them. Maybe the birds do the 'scouting' for people on the island,...they are it's 'eyes',..?

I belong to other Lost groups, but this one is full of really good thinkers. I would love your insights. Thanks!

To the person who said the control panel is on the other side. No it's on the same side that Juliet's standing on. You can see it here... http://lost.cubit.net/forum/gallery/1_05_04_07_12_33_46.jpg


We're on the same page there. I wrote "the "other" side", meaning the side of Otherville, or inside of the perimeter if you will.

I agree with the following statements:

1. Juliet is a plant of the Others. She knew she would be handcuffed to Kate, dumped in the jungle, and she was never knocked-out, etc. It was done to help bond them together, like Kate's flashback to Sawyer's ex-girlfriend, who befriended Kate. I notice that Lost does this frequently,....they use a flashback to highlight something happening current day.


Except that Juliet confessed that she kept them cuffed together to try and bond. That's sort of counter productive to admit that. I do think she was truthful about that though I don't think she was knocked out but I think she has been dumped by the Others. She has proven to be less than a devout follower. They don't trust her anymore.


2. The fence was down because Juliet was supposed to be able to return to Otherville, to get Jack and Sayid, in the event she felt that Kate had accepted her, to some extent, which I think Kate did. I am not saying she likes Juliet...

More likely the fence was down because the Others left and it can only be activated when you are inside. It couldn't be turned back on until someone was inside to do it.


Things that boggle my mind:

The monster didn't not kill Kate, because she was with Juliet,...and Juliet has been deemed, by the monster, as a good person?....Remember, they were handcuffed together then,...but the monster still ran at Juliet when she put the fence up,....or was it focusing on Kate who was standing behind her???

I like the idea that perhaps the injections that they gave Claire and that Desmond took (so presumably the Others) makes them somehow immuned or safe from it. The best way to prove that would be to have Desmond face it but it's not like you can make an appointment with Smokey so we'll have to wait.


2. The fence being down concerned me in that if the monster was on the lose, wouldn't it be able to enter Othersville,...and perhaps, kill Sayid and Jack? I doubt it would harm Jack, but the monster seems to be the 'judge and jury' of morality, and many would say that Sayid deserves justice. Again, perhaps the monster does not kill the Others, since it deems them as 'good',...?

Since we don't know what sets it off we can't really say why it attacks some and not other people. Why did it kill ther pilot? What did he do wrong? The Village might not be of interest without the epople in it. Jack and Sayid have wandered through the jungle plenty of times and not been attacked so why would it go after them just because they were in Otherville? Would it be the locale? Another wait and see.


I belong to other Lost groups, but this one is full of really good thinkers. I would love your insights. Thanks!


:biggrin:

I think that the reason that smokey flashed when Kate and Juliette were in the trees is because it was "recognizing" Juliette. When it was able to "see" Juliette, smokey retreated. My theory, for what it's worth, is that smokey was after Kate alone, not Juliette. Juliette activated the fence to protect Kate (for unknown reasons...but the others obviously want the losties alive). Remember, Danielle said that smokey was a security system...maybe he protects the others.

I agree, it seems to me that Juliet isn't afraid of Smokey. If she was she wouldn't have kept up the "what is that thing" act, and insteead would have ran towards the fence at the firs sign of Smokey. My pet theory is that the purpose of Juliet's mission with the handcuffs and everything was that Smokey confront Kate. I think The Others wanted to see if Kate was good or not. Maybe thats what happened during the flashes.

I actually think Juliet looked pretty terrified of Smokey. I have a feeling it doesn't judge "good" or "bad" like everybody thinks it does. It may have a totally different way of operating and is simply following orders of whomever is controlling it. Or it may have it's own mind, but could be purely animal and totally different than any of us are imagining. But I think Juliet was just as much in danger as Kate was. That's how she appeared to act to me.

Here's an idea

Smokey is largely controled by and reflects the emotions and thoughts of those around it or those it chooses as a target for its attention. Maybe it is part of the 'box' of the Island that grants wishes, sort of like a djinni perhaps (a little Andrew Divoff tie-in too).

The pilot had a big dose of "survivor guilt" over the crash and Smokey killed him because in his mind he thought he should have been dead.

Locke when he first encountered it was awe struck, seeing it as part of the wonder of the Island. In his second encounter he was obsessed with the hatch and getting underground so Smokey wanted to help him out.

On Eko's first encounter he was confident and fearless and on a mission to find his brother's remains. Smokey backed down from his resolve. On the second encounter, Eko was in a weaker state of mind, feeling guilty and conflicted, and thus vulnerable to a raging Smokey.

In this episode, on the first encounter Juliet turned Smokey non-aggresive by entering a calm, meditative, state. Later, Smokey starts an attack but is it turned by the fence or by Juliet facing it down with confidence or by Juliet believing that it could not cross the fence line.

Here's an idea

Smokey is largely controled by and reflects the emotions and thoughts of those around it or those it chooses as a target for its attention.

Is it your post or your icon that made me wonder if Smokey has a cousin called "Rover"...?

("We want INFORMATION!")

- mnw

Is it your post or your icon that made me wonder if Smokey has a cousin called "Rover"...?

("We want INFORMATION!")


Smokey (aka Cerberus) and Rover do seem to have their similarities both in behavior and the way they tend to show up during the course of an episode.

I'd like to see Patrick McGoohan play "Him", although he probably wouldn't be able to due to health reasons. :frown:

I think they should show a smokey flashback and reveal why he can't jump ;)

Actually, I thought about this some more and I believe it's both light and dark. This idea makes sense because of the way the backgammon pieces were described by Locke back in season one: one piece, two sides. One side is white, the other black.

Very good point considering backgammon made a reappearance this epi. Hmm.

Yeah, this one has been bugging me as well.

I think they should show a smokey flashback and reveal why he can't jump ;)

Ext. Day. A meadow on the island


BEN
Smokey! Come here, boy! That's it. Now you know how this works: I throw the frisbee over the fence and you be a good monster and jump to catch it.

SMOKEY
*grunt* *screetch* *tear out tree* *stomp*

BEN (cont'd)
Good, now ... go! *frisbee throw*

SMOKEY
*assemble from clouds* *frisbee follow* *roar* *stomp* *stomp*

BEN (cont'd)
Be careful, boy. No! No! Jump!

FENCE
*zonk* *repell* *fry*

SMOKEY
*crash* *screetch* *flee into the ground*

BEN (cont'd)
Bad cloud! I said "jump"! You hear me? That means reruns only for you for the next two weeks, buster! Now who's gonna get that frisbee back? Tom?

TOM
*whisper* *whisper*

BEN
What? John Locke asked you for some dynamite before jumping into the boat to the Hydra? Oh ... no ...

I think that's why Juliet stood there and looked smokey in the eye, so he would dive straight for her, and smash right into the fence, instead of flying over it. It's another mind trick by the others and this time they are playing with smokey.

you're right, blondie was daring smokie to
cross the fense.

still, i think blondie knows more about
smokie than she lets on.

First off, let's not forget that three smokies merged to form the smokie that would confront the fence.

Earlier today I had mentioned on another thread the fact that three entities coming together to cause mayhem is commonly known in Latin as molari encurli, and that I would go do some research and return to these boards with my findings. Well here goes with what I have found so far.

Most scholars theorize that when three enties come together as a molari encurli, a state of incompetance makes the entity utterly futile in accomplishing even the most basic tasks. And this incompetance can lead to unforseen mayhem never even intended by the entity. For an example people can relate to in their everyday lives, lets look at three painters trying to paint in the same room with each painter standing only a few feet apart from the next. The movements of ladders, scaffolding, floor coverings and paints can only lead to confusion and, ultimately, violence amongst the painters themselves (usually starting with something simple such as the Alpha-painter slapping the faces of the other two painters).

I think this may be what we saw happening with the smokies. They are molari encurli and the Alpha smokie's dominance over thw two other smokies makes them even more inept. Hop over a fence??? Give me a break. Just be thankful molari encurli even managed to all head in the same direction.

I think smokey didn't flew over the fence, cause he seems to be close to the floor at least in a part of him. We always see him levitating, but he is always near the floor, and as he seems to be composed by 3 parts or "arms" (as in the sceene he killed Eko) that's as far as he could go: he's like a body, can make his arms or parts to go very high, but his central part won't move too far from the ilsand's sand.

Concerning to the fence..
It is interesting the way it affects smokey, so different to the way if affets Bakunin.

- When Mikhail crosses the fence, he's like caught in between, he's not able to move, he's para..lized.
- On the other side, the fence in smokey has exactly that funtion: to be a fence, an invisible wall that would not let the smoke coss it. Frank doesn't get caught in between like Bakunin, he's just repulsed by it.

So, we can see the fence affetcs humans and smoke in different ways.

And two questions:
- If Mikhail would have trespased that fence running, would he have been able to make it?
- And what do Bakunin and smokey in common so they both cannot cross the fence?

I believe Smokie was after Kate. Not Juliet. That would explain the flashes. She was scanning her or 'taking' pictures' to check if she was in its 'database' (aka The List?) of
'good' people.
I think Smokie is the Protector of whatever Ben was refering to when he called it a Magic Box. This thing, which I believe is the source of the 'powers' of the Island is Underground.
You can read a more detailed explanation here:
http://thefuselage.com/Threaded/showpost.php?p=1476314&postcount=15
And some more food for thought...What if this magic box is actually not a physical object or something intangible, but PEOPLE. Special people capable of manifesting things on the island. (I can't help thinking of Walt!). Cerberus would be the guardian of these special people living in the Underworld.
Yesterday I watched Peter Pan with my daughter, and the scene in which the kids are being kipnapped and walked all tied-up by the aborigines reminded me a lot of the scene in which Ecko and Jin spied on those child-like barefoot 'others'. So what if they were some others from the Underworld that somehow could escape to the surface?
100%
I think smokey didn't flew over the fence, cause he seems to be close to the floor at least in a part of him. We always see him levitating, but he is always near the floor, and as he seems to be composed by 3 parts or "arms" (as in the sceene he killed Eko) that's as far as he could go: he's like a body, can make his arms or parts to go very high, but his central part won't move too far from the ilsand's sand.

Concerning to the fence..
It is interesting the way it affects smokey, so different to the way if affets Bakunin.

- When Mikhail crosses the fence, he's like caught in between, he's not able to move, he's para..lized.
- On the other side, the fence in smokey has exactly that funtion: to be a fence, an invisible wall that would not let the smoke coss it. Frank doesn't get caught in between like Bakunin, he's just repulsed by it.

So, we can see the fence affetcs humans and smoke in different ways.

And two questions:
- If Mikhail would have trespased that fence running, would he have been able to make it?
- And what do Bakunin and smokey in common so they both cannot cross the fence?


To cross the fence running...Hmmm That sounds interesting. I think there might be a possibility that you could make it thru... if you were really faaaaaaaaaaast.
Patchy didnt have anything in common with Smokie. They both reacted to the sound wall differently. Perhaps this sonic fence produces a very low frequency sound capable
of making your organs resonate at the same frequency causing you some serious internal injuries. If Patchy did survive that, I bet he is DEAF now. Perhaps all that bleeding came from his ears and not his brain. As far as Smokie... well, it reacted very differently because it is not made of flesh and blood. The secret as to why it was 'repelled' by the fence as if it was an invisble wall may lie in its real physical nature. To me and many all, Smokie is electromagnetic-based.

Ext. Day. A meadow on the island


BEN
Smokey! Come here, boy! That's it. Now you know how this works: I throw the frisbee over the fence and you be a good monster and jump to catch it.

SMOKEY
*grunt* *screetch* *tear out tree* *stomp*

BEN (cont'd)
Good, now ... go! *frisbee throw*

SMOKEY
*assemble from clouds* *frisbee follow* *roar* *stomp* *stomp*

BEN (cont'd)
Be careful, boy. No! No! Jump!

FENCE
*zonk* *repell* *fry*

SMOKEY
*crash* *screetch* *flee into the ground*

BEN (cont'd)
Bad cloud! I said "jump"! You hear me? That means reruns only for you for the next two weeks, buster! Now who's gonna get that frisbee back? Tom?

TOM
*whisper* *whisper*

BEN
What? John Locke asked you for some dynamite before jumping into the boat to the Hydra? Oh ... no ...

HAHAHAHAHAHA, I love you now :malelove:

Smokey is one part of the thing we all call the monster.

First: The birds appear overhead,...screeching. Like scouts looking for invaders.
Two: The ground gets torn up when Smokey gets close to its victim.


Three: Smokey does a couple of things at this point. In Left Behind Smokey cornered Kate and Juliet, in the bamboo trees (again Kate), and the mechanical part of Smokey took pictures of them, focusing on Juliet (I think).

I think Smokey, this part of the monster taking pictures, is mechanical, and is a part of a more deadly security system. Smokey was not taking pictures of Kate, because Smokey knows Kate already.

Smokey did not know Juliet, if you believe what she said about not knowing about the monster. This portion of the monster works on face-recognition. It scans the person, in question, puts the face in it's database, and the decision is made as to whether or not that person is good or bad, and,....

The Smoke monster, actual smoke, appears and does it's thing. It's alerted by the mechanical part, to follow through. The decision of the Smoke monster (actual smoke), is based upon a related entity which determines, whether or not, the intended victim is good or bad. If good, it lets them go. If bad,...well we all know what happens,...it kills.

The Smoke monster was never after Juliet,...look at the scene when the fence goes up,..and Smokey hits the invisible window, like a bird on a patio door,....I think Smokey was after Kate. It appeared to be after Juliet, but Kate was standing right behind her.

The monster has already determined that Kate is not good, and would have killed her in the bamboo hiding place, except that it was thrown an unknown,...Juliet, who it later decided was good.

The Smoke monster is a combination of mechanical and non-mechanical "learning" security system.

In my humble opinion....

Earlier today I had mentioned on another thread the fact that three entities coming together to cause mayhem is commonly known in Latin as molari encurli.

Can you confirm the spelling of that, because I just tried to look it up and found no results in Google or my trusted Wikipedia. It would be interesting to know more about the term.

smokey can become yemi, a horse, christian, and cooper but he doesnt have the critical thinking skills of climbing over a fence. c'mon now?
That's exactly my point, I don't think Smokey rationalizes anything. I think it's just acting, and re-acting, based on what it's been told to do. Imagine a modern video game. Not an online or multi-player one, just you against the computer. As complex and "intelligent" as the AI, or 'bots', have come from older games, they're still just operating on a set of protocols. The software now allows them to act quite life-like, but it is still just programming. That's kinda how I see Smokey.

That's exactly my point, I don't think Smokey rationalizes anything. I think it's just acting, and re-acting, based on what it's been told to do. Imagine a modern video game. Not an online or multi-player one, just you against the computer. As complex and "intelligent" as the AI, or 'bots', have come from older games, they're still just operating on a set of protocols. The software now allows them to act quite life-like, but it is still just programming. That's kinda how I see Smokey.
I'm more willing to except this explanation much more than Smokey being able to judge people as "good" or "bad." Danielle described it as a security system. I'm willing to believe that more than some kind of creature that determines who's good or not.

What a fantastic scene. So, I just want to be clear on the meaning of Juliet's statement. Are we to assume that Smokey has been around seemingly forever? Pre-dating Dharma, Ben's entire life on the island, and more? Just looking for a little brainstorming and insight on this one.

surely it tells us the fence wasn't built to keep smokey out, bit that's just a side effect?

i agree but i also believe that it keeps it out and that it was an accident, juliet says that we realized that it doesnt like the fence, not that we made this fence as protection from it.

i agree but i also believe that it keeps it out and that it was an accident, juliet says that we realized that it doesnt like the fence, not that we made this fence as protection from it.
I don't think the others built the fence, but Dharma. We also know that it is a useless protection agaisnt HUMANS, but we do know it is a very good protection against Smokie...So the evidence seems to indicate that the fence was built to keep smokie out of the barracks.

Can you confirm the spelling of that, because I just tried to look it up and found no results in Google or my trusted Wikipedia. It would be interesting to know more about the term.

I can't remember where I found my information on molari encurli but it is out there, You may also want to try searching under variations such as molari enshemp and molari encurlijo.

If I recall correctly, I think I may have had to play around with the spellings of these phrases to get exact matches when doing my searches on the internet. Spelled as they are now, I too am not getting any matches.

Gotta love the way the Others talk, the only actual information Juliet gives Kate about Smokey is information that she already has:

"Allright, we don't know what it is, but we know that it doesn't like our fences."

-> Kate and we know as much already from the scene we just witnessed :biggrin:
I wouldn't take Juliet's word here as a hint that the fence was really not specifically built to repell Smokey.

Questions that come to mind: what about all the Dhama stations on the island - why are they not protected by something similar? Or: what makes the village so worthy of protection compared to the stations?

HAHAHAHAHAHA, I love you now :malelove:

Glad I could make you laugh ;)

i think that smokey could not read Juliets past/life because she is one of the good ones...thats why when Locke said he saw bright lights, its because he is on the good list too...so...maybe it only feeds off of bad past! and thats why the others are saving the good ppl and using the Losties to keep the smokey thing away from them..cuz its feeding off of the Losties...maybe..:D

I don't think the others built the fence, but Dharma. We also know that it is a useless protection agaisnt HUMANS, but we do know it is a very good protection against Smokie...So the evidence seems to indicate that the fence was built to keep smokie out of the barracks.

Well, we don't know for sure that it's useless against humans ... It seemed to do quite a number on Patchy. On the other hand, it took quite a bit of time for the effects of the fence to kill him. It looked to me like he stood there and 'committed suicide' by standing in the field of the fence. I wonder what would happen to someone running through at speed? It's certainly VERY effective at repelling Smokey and I suspect that it was built for just this purpose. I doubt that it's 'Smokey-repelling' effectiveness is just a happy accident of fate.

Well, we don't know for sure that it's useless against humans ... It seemed to do quite a number on Patchy. On the other hand, it took quite a bit of time for the effects of the fence to kill him. It looked to me like he stood there and 'committed suicide' by standing in the field of the fence. I wonder what would happen to someone running through at speed? It's certainly VERY effective at repelling Smokey and I suspect that it was built for just this purpose. I doubt that it's 'Smokey-repelling' effectiveness is just a happy accident of fate.


By useless I mean that you can just go OVER it like Kate did. It only took her less than 5 minutes to come up with that idea. Any person with a little common sense would have tried the same. That's why I think that particular fence was NEVER meant to keep regular people off. Unless these people were as smart as a caveman. Can we say HOSTILES maybe???? But again, if it was designed for these kind of people, why not build something more conventional? A regular fence or an electrified one...Why resort to Sound Waves which, coincidentially seem to be incredibly effective against a certain kind of crazy black smoke killer? That's why I think THAT fence was built because of Smokie. Now the question is: How did Dharma know that sonic weapon technology would stop Cerberus? Obviously they knew how it worked and what it was made of. Does this mean that they created it themselves and something happened to it and made it malfunction? Or somehow they managed to study (captured it) it in the past and found out what makes it tick?

On a side note: I can almost picture the Dharma commercial for this fence: SO EASY A CAVEMAN CAN DO IT!:biggrin:

The fence was useless against Kate, Locke, and Sayid because they figured out, using Patchy, that the fence was dangerous. If they hadn't known, they would've gone through it the normal way, and been fried, too.

The fence was useless against Kate, Locke, and Sayid because they figured out, using Patchy, that the fence was dangerous. If they hadn't known, they would've gone through it the normal way, and been fried, too.

They would have gone through???????????? I'd never do that. If you see like dozens of weird pylons surrounding a huge area...What would you think those things are for? I think it screams KEEP OFF, DO NOT CROSS. If they were just a little smart, they would have never crossed, even without patchy at hand. If they would have to try the fence they could throw something else at it, like a boar or charlie...

They would have gone through???????????? I'd never do that. If you see like dozens of weird pylons surrounding a huge area...What would you think those things are for? I think it screams KEEP OFF, DO NOT CROSS. If they were just a little smart, they would have never crossed, even without patchy at hand. If they would have to try the fence they could throw something else at it, like a boar or charlie...

Exactly. The fence was there to keep people away. It may have been effective against Smokey, too, killing two birds with one stone.

Exactly. The fence was there to keep people away. It may have been effective against Smokey, too, killing two birds with one stone.
It is not effective against SMART people.(just like a regular backyard fence isn't effective against PEOPLE) Kate proved it. It was designed for Smokie.

It is not effective against SMART people.(just like a regular backyard fence isn't effective against PEOPLE) Kate proved it. It was designed for Smokie.

What was proved was that the Losties are smart people. They are a different breed of people and they're causing havoc on the status quo of the island. They think and behave differently than any other group that's ever been stranded there. I don't think the fence is foolproof; that's what Kate proved. On the contrary, it was designed to keep people out, albeit normal, ordinary people.

Usually, a barrier is designed to discourage a breach in the first place.
If it were meant to deter humans, it is likely, that it would have warning signs all over the place and it would be not deadly (and even if it were, then a second, not deadly barrier would be placed in front of it).
If it were meant to deter animals, it is also more likely, that it would not be deadly, but simply painful to the animal.

-> A fence that does not warn you and kills you if you try to cross it makes a rather bad deterrent for humans and animals because once you are made to realize that you are not supposed to go there, you're already toast which means you can't tell others about it.

So far, it looks to me like Smokey is the only likely target for the fence. And if it really is, then it's also notable that Smokey must be really, really stupid, because one would think that this was not it's first contact with the fence and still it charged straight at it.

Usually, a barrier is designed to discourage a breach in the first place.
If it were meant to deter humans, it is likely, that it would have warning signs all over the place and it would be not deadly (and even if it were, then a second, not deadly barrier would be placed in front of it).
If it were meant to deter animals, it is also more likely, that it would not be deadly, but simply painful to the animal.

-> A fence that does not warn you and kills you if you try to cross it makes a rather bad deterrent for humans and animals because once you are made to realize that you are not supposed to go there, you're already toast which means you can't tell others about it.

So far, it looks to me like Smokey is the only likely target for the fence. And if it really is, then it's also notable that Smokey must be really, really stupid, because one would think that this was not it's first contact with the fence and still it charged straight at it.

I would say to this that we don't know for certain that Patchy is dead.

Secondly, it would be in the realm of possibility that whoever built this fence didn't care about the well-being of the island residents.

I would say to this that we don't know for certain that Patchy is dead.

Good point, I've speculated about that, too - there's a thread named "Mikhail's Alive" around here. But if the fence is not actually deadly to humans/animals or has no effect on them, Smokey is again the most likely target for it.

Secondly, it would be in the realm of possibility that whoever built this fence didn't care about the well-being of the island residents.

Indeed a possibility on this remote island.

What was proved was that the Losties are smart people. They are a different breed of people and they're causing havoc on the status quo of the island. They think and behave differently than any other group that's ever been stranded there. I don't think the fence is foolproof; that's what Kate proved. On the contrary, it was designed to keep people out, albeit normal, ordinary people.
If you were on that island, and your loved one was on the other side of that fence, would you have tried what Kate did?

I think that the fence was meant for Smokey. Maybe it works like the invisible fences used for dogs. Smokey could go under or above it but is it worth the pain or damage?

i think its just a black cloud and its not a person on anything its a bloody black cloud get a grip guys

i think its just a black cloud and its not a person on anything its a bloody black cloud get a grip guys


Yup, just your normal 'common or garden' floating black sentient smoke cloud. :biggrin:

Yes those black clouds that pick people up and bash them to death are quite irritating...they aren't common here though luckily :biggrin: :biggrin: