So I see how this works. Ben sends Juliet out with Kate to gain her trust and with Jack's support, infiltrate the Losties. Why? I think she's still after Aaron.

I was floored that she had the key to the cuffs. She pretended she didn't but knew she did and only had to show her hand when smokey was bearing down on them and it was her only means of escape. She can turn the fence on and off and she had the key. She's got pretty high level clearance. I can't believe they would banish her with all the knowledge she has. It's too risky. I think she was sent off with them on purpose and is up to something. Sayid is right not to trust her.

I am very confused by her. She must be after Aaron. Why else would she have the key?
BUT, whether or not she is trying to infiltrate the Losties, she was scanned by Smokey. Unless she really is "good" in Smokey's eyes, I think she's screwed.

I agree. Hubby said "Sayid doesn't trust anyone." I said, "He's probably right."

I think this is going to set up some excellent drama. I can't wait to watch Juliet try to take down the beachies, one Shephard family member at a time!

I've never trusted her. I think the whole thing is a plan between Juliet and Ben. She's as bad, or worse, than Ben.

see i like juliet and think she's "good". but i think she was left behind purposefully by the others and is infiltrating the losties. i don't know how to explain it b/c those are very contradictory statements. but i think she was definitely left behind on purpose and everything she is doing is calculated

It does look really suspicious, but would TPTB tip their hand so early with Sayid comments at the end.

I'd have thought that being left behind was Juliette's punishment till I saw she had he keys to the cuffs the whole time. Sayid's got sone keen senses, and he's right not to trust her.

I think Juliet will do anything to get off the island and go home. Her chance was taken away when Locke supposedly blew up the submarine. Maybe Ben is giving her another chance if she can bring back Aaron to Othersville? I think Aaron is a major part of this- the Others want him really bad.

So I see how this works. Ben sends Juliet out with Kate to gain her trust and with Jack's support, infiltrate the Losties. Why? I think she's still after Aaron.

I think she was sent off with them on purpose and is up to something. Sayid is right not to trust her.

Exactly! She is definitely after Aaron. Hopefully Sayid will be able to gain valuable info from her before she dies (because Smokey definitely will get her now).
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It does look really suspicious, but would TPTB tip their hand so early with Sayid comments at the end.

Sayid didn't trust Ben either from the moment he saw him. They tipped their hand there, too, I guess if you want to look at it that way.

Juliet is not to be trusted. I understand the parallel in Kate's backstory where she trusted Cassidy and that worked out well, but even so I do not trust Juliet for one second. Sayid needs to be very careful with her.

The whole thing tonight (clearing out the Other's camp) was an elaborate ruse, much like Ben with his Henry Gale balloon story. A sympathy vote lets you gain entrance into the Lostie's lair. It's insane that she's being allowed to come with them.. She just lied to Kate about 2 things (the key and the monster) mere hours ago.

Good for Sayid for not wanting her to come.

Other things she was -doing reminded me of what ben does and said. About finding what they are emotional attached to and use it to break them and get what he wants. Ex. juliet to kate about how she broke jacks hurt and how he saw everything, she was trying to break her down.
And yea, why would they leave her with all her knowledge of the island and the others, and maybe how to get off the island. From the preview looks like she doesnt wana say anything to sayid.
also she knew if she went back to othersville that jack would protect her, and i also have a feeling that the whole marking thing on the other island, and that they were gona kill her was all B.S..i think bens plan is still going on and juliet is part of it. She has jack rapped around her finger, just how ben wanted from the beginning.

That's what I thought too but it seems so obvious. But then again, it seemed obvious that Ben was an Other then we saw the balloon and thought he was telling the truth for half an episode. Maybe they're doing something similar with Juliet. But if I had to put my money on her allegiance, I would say she's with the other and going for Aaron.

It just adds to my only frustration with this show, why do the characters keep having dumb moments? There is absolutely no reason to trust Juliet. None. I'm sure Jack is going to pull his leadership card on her behalf (btw - I've never liked Jack as leader. He wasn't thrust into leadership, he assumed it) and they 815ers will simply accept it, but honestly, would any of them trust her? I'd just once like for the 815ers to put their heads together and put the Others on their backsides instead of always looking like complete idiots.

The idea that Juliet is going to intentionally infiltrate the Survivors is legitimate, I think. Or at least I believe it is a valid possibility. But to say that the whole basis of this is in order for the Others to kidnap Aaron is in my opinion very misguided. If the Others had wanted Aaron so badly, then they could have at any time snuck in with their submarine (before it got blowed up) in a night-time raid, landed with a rubber boat, gassed or in some other way silenced Claire, grabbed Aaron, and made a clean getaway under one minute. How could Juliet's infiltrating the Survivors' camp have anything at all to do with Aaron? What, is she going to nab him and try to sneak back through the jungle, trying to avoid Sayid, Sawyer, Charlie, Desmond, Claire, Jack, and Kate, who would be hell-bent on keeping up with her? Come on!

If Juliet is really going to the Survivors' camp to infiltrate it, it is to gain first-hand intel on the people who are left, and what is going on inside their camp. Personally, however, I really believe that Juliet is a wild card in the deck. I think she is operating now on her own initiative, with the possible help of a couple of accomplices within the Others. I think she's putting her trust in Jack, and is perhaps trying to make a play to see if she can somehow maneuver Jack into a position of power among the Others over Ben.

One thing's fer dang sure: I do NOT want to miss next week's episode!

I can't figure her out. We want to trust her, but we want not to trust her. She's so confusing.
She lied to Kate about the handcuffs, Smokey and the fence. I mean, WTF. And she woke up immediately when Kate had the knife, which to me, means that she was not currently knocked out and was only faking.

She got scanned by Smokey, so I think she might be killed next, even though I like the character and actress, so I hope she isn't.
The next episode should be really interesting.

Juliet is an enigma. One moment I think she is sincere and is being used and abused by the Others and the next I think she is as duplicitous as they come. Where did she learn to fight like that??!! I couldn't believe the way she got that take-down on Kate in the Rec center!
And the fact that she lied about Smokey and had the key all along?? :sneaky2:
No...I just cannot pin her down yet. They need to tread VEEERRRRYYY carefully with that one. I trust Sayid - I hope he gets her figured out for us.

It just adds to my only frustration with this show, why do the characters keep having dumb moments? There is absolutely no reason to trust Juliet. None. I'm sure Jack is going to pull his leadership card on her behalf (btw - I've never liked Jack as leader. He wasn't thrust into leadership, he assumed it) and they 815ers will simply accept it, but honestly, would any of them trust her? I'd just once like for the 815ers to put their heads together and put the Others on their backsides instead of always looking like complete idiots.

It usually is the case that people who believe that there are dumb or stupid things about this show find that in the end they just didn't understand or know about certain things. I would hesitate to say that the characters are acting dumb. I think that given the parameters they are confronted with, all the characters in Lost have behaved with very real, believable, and mostly intelligent ways. Your frustration is really based on the fact that you don't understand what's going on, not on the idea that the characters are being dumb... In my opinion, of course.

Its about revenge, Juliet is after Charlie for killing Ethan, I can't wait to see what happens when Desmond lays eyes on Juliet.

So I see how this works. Ben sends Juliet out with Kate to gain her trust and with Jack's support, infiltrate the Losties. Why? I think she's still after Aaron.

I was floored that she had the key to the cuffs. She pretended she didn't but knew she did and only had to show her hand when smokey was bearing down on them and it was her only means of escape. She can turn the fence on and off and she had the key. She's got pretty high level clearance. I can't believe they would banish her with all the knowledge she has. It's too risky. I think she was sent off with them on purpose and is up to something. Sayid is right not to trust her.

Absolutely, totally agree with you. When has Sayid ever been wrong? Never. I trust Sayid, and he know a rat when he sees one. Why is Jack being so naive. He's too trusting. I love Jack to bits, but sometimes that man just kills me when it comes to trusting people.
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Its about revenge, Juliet is after Charlie for killing Ethan, I can't wait to see what happens when Desmond lays eyes on Juliet.

OMG I just got chills...if the spoiler is true about Charlie dying, that would probably be the very way he goes. Like Locke said the Others aren't very forgiving people. I wonder if Desmond will foresee this. Good theory BTW.

I agree. Hubby said "Sayid doesn't trust anyone." I said, "He's probably right."

I think this is going to set up some excellent drama. I can't wait to watch Juliet try to take down the beachies, one Shephard family member at a time!

Yeah, Sayid is my "prickly conscious" in this show... When his radar goes off - mine does too!!

But I LIKE Juliett!!! She's the first "non-original" I've like so far! I hope it's not true, but it seems it's leading that way...

I don't think Juliet's purpose is to get Aaron. If the Others wanted Aaron, they could have taken him when Danielle kidnapped him and tried to exchange him for Alex. But they wanted Walt - not Aaron.

The Others branded Juliet as an outsider. If that's all an act, it's a pretty painful one to give for the cause. But then, Ben took an arrow in the shoulder. It seems to me, that Juliet is working with Ben but not necessarily with the Others. They are one group but Ben has his own agenda and he and Juliet have "history."

I think that Juliet is working for Ben's agenda, that she is not trustworthy as far as the Losties are concerned, and that her job is to win over the Losties and manipulate them into doing something that Ben wants done. So, she needs to be watched very carefully. Apart from that, she seems like a pretty handy person to have around - doctor, cook, and knowledge of the island and the Others' ways. She can also completely cover herself in mud without messing up her eye make-up.

I trust her. I know I'm the minority. But I think she is genuinely a victim and that she will eventually find a new home with the Losties.

First let me say..I love Juliet. She's an interesting character, like Ben. I would love (in a non-Lost world) for her to be good and be with Jack. But this is Lost not Days of our Lives. She has to be up to something. It's what makes her character good. I think she was left behind on purpose. She has to be. She had the key. I'm assuming she brought Kate out to the jungle. How else did they get there? She has ulterior motives and it's going to make for a great episode. Next week will be good, but I think her story will continue into the next season.

"Was Juliet left behind on purpose?"That's the $1,000,000 dollar question isn't it?

On one hand, she knows too much about the others for them to simply leave her behind without some ultimate purpose.

On the other hand, she has been on the outside with them. They did have a meeting to decide what to do with her after she went against Ben and killed Pickett when helping Kate and Sawyer escape.

I dunno, it's still too close to call in my book.

Oh, am I the only one who half expected Jeff Probst to make a cameo and tell Juliet that her tribe has spoken? :biggrin:

i agree with whoever said that this is the first non-original character that i've liked. ben is cool and all but i wouldn't be sad to see him die. mr friendly is fun to watch, but again not that emotionally attached. i hope juliet doesn't die.

i have no idea about her character. i think in the long run she'll be "good" in the sense that she'll be on the side of the losties. i think she's good but on the wrong side right now and sitll working for the others.

definitely a plant

Oh, am I the only one who half expected Jeff Probst to make a cameo and tell Juliet that her tribe has spoken? :biggrin:

that would have been funny!!

I trust her. I know I'm the minority. But I think she is genuinely a victim and that she will eventually find a new home with the Losties.


I trust her too. I think Ben has manipulated her for her entire three years on the island. Perhaps it has something to do with her sister back in the states. I do not think she is a plant, I think she has learned those manipulative ways from being around Ben and the others and uses them as a means of survival. (Lying about the keys and smokey for example) She has three years of brainwashing and manipulation bred into her, and it will take some time for her to come around to her old pre-island Juliette.

We know that Juliet will do anything to gain her freedom and get off the island and that Ben has promised her that time and again over three years and as recently as Ben's surgery, she still believed his promises. She had to, if she had any chance of ever leaving. So it's possible he made one more deal with her and said look the sub was blown up, it wasn't my fault, but do this one more thing for me and I'll send you home. I still think she is after Aaron, not revenge on Charlie. From what we've seen, Juliet and Ethan were not all that close, they just worked together. I think whatever she does she is doing it for her freedom.

How did Juliet know that Jack and Sayid were left behind too and were back at the camp? She knew more about the Others leaving than she admitted to and I'm sure she knows where they went. She's gained Jack's trust and she'll use Jack to get her welcomed into the Lostie camp because everyone trusts Jack. Big mistake. Someone may end up getting killed.

I think the fact that Hurley's banishment threat on Sawyer was a scam was a clue to the fact that this is a scam too. And I think the Sawyer/Aaron bit was also foreshadowing that Aaron will be in danger.

She's got pretty high level clearance.

...and as such, wouldn't she know the sky turned purple and that sub wasn't going anywhere anyway? Even if she's not in cahoots with Ben, now that we see just how high a level of clearance she has, doesn't it stand to reason that she knew about the sub not being a viable option anyway?

I can't believe they would banish her with all the knowledge she has. It's too risky. I think she was sent off with them on purpose and is up to something. Sayid is right not to trust her.

I don't want to get my hopes up about her wanting Aaron and this being an awesome story that's tied up with the Other's kidnapping obsession and Aaron's importance to the plot, etc. I hope it's about that and not about Juliet being a tool in the most asinine storyline on any TV show ever. (I'll let you guess which storyline...)

So I see how this works. Ben sends Juliet out with Kate to gain her trust and with Jack's support, infiltrate the Losties. Why? I think she's still after Aaron.

I was floored that she had the key to the cuffs. She pretended she didn't but knew she did and only had to show her hand when smokey was bearing down on them and it was her only means of escape. She can turn the fence on and off and she had the key. She's got pretty high level clearance. I can't believe they would banish her with all the knowledge she has. It's too risky. I think she was sent off with them on purpose and is up to something. Sayid is right not to trust her.

We know that Juliet will do anything to gain her freedom and get off the island and that Ben has promised her that time and again over three years and as recently as Ben's surgery, she still believed his promises. She had to, if she had any chance of ever leaving. So it's possible he made one more deal with her and said look the sub was blown up, it wasn't my fault, but do this one more thing for me and I'll send you home. I still think she is after Aaron, not revenge on Charlie. From what we've seen, Juliet and Ethan were not all that close, they just worked together. I think whatever she does she is doing it for her freedom.

How did Juliet know that Jack and Sayid were left behind too and were back at the camp? She knew more about the Others leaving than she admitted to and I'm sure she knows where they went. She's gained Jack's trust and she'll use Jack to get her welcomed into the Lostie camp because everyone trusts Jack. Big mistake. Someone may end up getting killed.

I think the fact that Hurley's banishment threat on Sawyer was a scam was a clue to the fact that this is a scam too. And I think the Sawyer/Aaron bit was also foreshadowing that Aaron will be in danger.:goodpost:

I agree 100%

I also am thinking Sawyer might challenge Jack's leadership by the time they get back.

How did Juliet know that Jack and Sayid were left behind too and were back at the camp? She knew more about the Others leaving than she admitted to and I'm sure she knows where they went. She's gained Jack's trust and she'll use Jack to get her welcomed into the Lostie camp because everyone trusts Jack. Big mistake. Someone may end up getting killed.

I think the fact that Hurley's banishment threat on Sawyer was a scam was a clue to the fact that this is a scam too. And I think the Sawyer/Aaron bit was also foreshadowing that Aaron will be in danger.

I agree, she seemed to know too much. And then those handcuff keys magically appear at just the right time . . . hmmm . . .:rolleyes:

Then again, the epi was about conning and trusting someone you hardly know. Maybe Juliet is redeemable? Nah, she's a spy.

:goodpost:
I also am thinking Sawyer might challenge Jack's leadership by the time they get back.

I don't think that will happen. Sawyer made some positive steps this week but he's no where being everyone's favorite person. I think he'll be relieved that he doesn't have to carry the burden and hand it over willing.

The Others have conned the Losties from the very beginning....I don't see any of them changing their strategy now. I like the character of Juliet, but I think she is still working for the Others. :(

Yes, Juliet was left behind on purpose.
Never forget, Ben has more than once shown himself as the ultimate manipulator who stops at nothing to get what he wants.
The only view we as the viewer had on Juliet's trial and sentencing as an outsider by the others was Jack's, and let's face it, he was manipulated all the way. The way I see it, it's a brilliant scheme.
Ben wanted Jack to start trusting Juliet, and the only way he could achieve that was to make him suspicous of her, and to create the suspicion in Jack that Ben wanted to make him bond with Juliet. Hence his comments about "she bears a resemblance to your ex-wife" and stuff. Jack at that point didn't want to trust anybody, period.
Now, we always assumed that Kate and Sawyer were taken to make Jack comply with going through with the surgery. I think that's right, but I think their kidnapping also served another purpose right from the start.
Ben knew that Jack would be ready and willing to do anything to get Kate (and also Sawyer) to safety, even if it meant that he was to be left behind. So he manipulated Jack again by letting him see Kate and Sawyer cuddling, thusly ensuring Jack's emotional uproar and his compliance to make that deal - get me off the island and let them go.
Thusly Ben ensured that his primary goal was reached - Jack would go through with the surgery to save Ben's life. Now, I think that somebody like Ben does plan for all eventualities. It was obvious that if he brought himself into such a vulnerable position like a surgery, nobody else would be able to help him should Jack try anything funny. After all, the others don't have the medical knowledge. I'm fairly sure Ben judged correctly that Jack wouldn't kill him. There was no gain in that, because then Jack wouldn't get his end of the deal. But I'm sure he knew that Jack would try something to ensure that Kate and Sawyer were let go.
So the second part of the manipulation started. Juliet has her little video show with Jack, begging him to kill Ben. I think Ben knew about this, in fact planned it. It served to implant the idea of there being a rift amongst the Others in Jack's mind, the thought that there might be a possible ally in Juliet. But still Jack refused to trust her, and his conscience wouldn't allow him to kill somebody in cold blood, anyway.
The ultimate twist in this con is when Jack went through with his plan and threatened to let Ben bleed out, Juliet sprang into action. She ensured that Kate and Sawyer escaped, even shooting one of her own to make sure that Jack's friends were safe. I never bought that, just as little as I bought that Ben promised her that he'd let her leave the island in their small chat in the operating room. More likely, he told her how to go through with the plan from now on, and Juliet starts crying because she realises what she'll be possibly facing.
Now Jack thinks he's gotten what he wanted. He made sure that Kate and Sawyer got away and he got his deal. The beauty of the plan is that what happens next also creates his trust in Juliet. Jack gets to know that she is to be sentenced for killing one of her own. Jack's conscience kicks in, since it's been him who brought this upon her (by creating the situation in which she had to do it, and by inadvertedly ratting out on her plea to kill Ben).
So when Jack gets to know that Juliet is about to be killed for what she did, he bargains for her life. Anybody else think that Ben was rather quick to comply with Jack's plea and asked for something to write the message on? After all, why should he? He had already made a deal with Jack, he didn't owe him to add anything to that deal just because Jack asked nicely. So why did he do it? Because Ben had planned the whole thing. He was in it, and Juliet. The other Others weren't, they were just following their leader's decision not to kill Juliet and instead branded her.
To what result? Jack now trusts Juliet. After all, she did something to help him which she knew would get her killed, she is now an outcast of her own group, and Jack's natural disposition is to offer her a safer place to stay. Hence, he's taking her back to the losties' beach.
Problem is, that was Ben's plan all along, and Juliet is in on it. She sill only answers to Ben. Why would she do that? Well, just like Jack, she seems willing to do anything to get off the island. Also, she's stayed for three years with people who have been involved in schemes, kidnappings and even cold-blooded murder, and that's only for the past three months. So yes, I think she's capable of being involved in this, whether out of conviction or out of the true desire to leave and go home.
I don't think her purpose is to go after Aaron specifically, but she definitely is up to something, whether it's general spying or some specific and yet unknown task, but we haven't heard the last of this.
Just my two cents on that matter (though the length of the post suggests something more like 1.25$:biggrin:)

Right now I'm voting for she is a plant.

Even when she looked totally terrified in the jungle when the smoke monster was after them, she lied about ever seeing before. That really takes a strong mind to keep up a lie when your scared to death. What ever she is up to, it is the up most importance to her.

The hand cuff key. She knew Jack was left behind, but for some reason she needed to make sure Kate made it back with her. She could have just as easily went back to the camp on her own and gotten Jack. Why not just leave Kate on her own?
She had to hand cuff herself to Kate while Kate was still knocked out. She could have just as easily gotten up and walked away.

Why dump Kate and her in the jungle, while leaving Jack and Syaid at the camp? Was it to slow them down? I guess the others knew they would take the time to find each other. Yet when they did, they didn't go to look for the others. They are headed back to their beach.

Right now I'm voting for she is a plant.

Even when she looked totally terrified in the jungle when the smoke monster was after them, she lied about ever seeing before. That really takes a strong mind to keep up a lie when your scared to death. What ever she is up to, it is the up most importance to her.

The hand cuff key. She knew Jack was left behind, but for some reason she needed to make sure Kate made it back with her. She could have just as easily went back to the camp on her own and gotten Jack. Why not just leave Kate on her own?
She had to hand cuff herself to Kate while Kate was still knocked out. She could have just as easily gotten up and walked away.
I think she cuffed herself to Kate for one reason - to play mindgames with her. Ben is not the only one who likes to mess with people's minds. I can't say whether it wsas possible to plan the confrontation with smokey, but even without that she messed Kate up pretty good emotionally.
The whole trek through the jungle served the purpose of once more confronting Kate with her feeling of guilt towards Kate, and to establish a couple of things between them: "I (Juliet) know more about Jack than you do, I have earned his trust, you have only broken his heart, you have messed up his chance to get off the island, you just couldn't stay away even though he told you to, and now you have to bear the consequences because right now I am closer to him than you are."
That and smokey messed Kate up pretty good, and I doubt that the confrontation with Jack did anything to make the situation any better.
Also, there was the slight chance that Kate would buy the "I've been left behind just like you" scheme, though I don't think Juliet considered that to be likely.

Why dump Kate and her in the jungle, while leaving Jack and Syaid at the camp? Was it to slow them down? I guess the others knew they would take the time to find each other. Yet when they did, they didn't go to look for the others. They are headed back to their beach.
Sayid said there were no tracks to follow. It has been established that there are underground passageways on the island, and after the scene with Ben in the Swan in last week's episode, we know that Juliet knows about those passageways. So...assuing the Others left the camp via one of those passages, why didn't Juliet tell Jack and Sayid about it? Why would she cover up for the people who have abandoned her? It doesn't make sense if there isn't still something tying her to them.

Of course she was left behind on purpose. The others never do anything by accident. Though the reasons behind her alienation are controversial.
I think she was either left behind to benefit Ben and act as a sort of spy or because she simply does not possess the other-type qualities anymore. She's becoming more and more like a Losty every episode.

Juliet is really going to the Survivor’s camp to infiltrate it. Does no one remember what Juliet does? She is a fertility doctor. She was able to impregnate her sister through the use of medicine. At the moment, one Survivor is pregnant: Sun. Through an earlier flashback we were made to believe Jin is sterile. So how was Sun able to get pregnant? Did the island’s healing abilities allow her pregnancy to take place or did the Others have something to do with it and send Juliet, the fertility doctor, to keep an eye on things? The Others have files on all the survivors so they would have known that Jin was sterile and that Sun was a prime target for such an experiment. However, if the Others did have something to do with Sun’s pregnancy, I don’t know when it would have taken place. Any thoughts???

If Ben really wanted Aaron, what's to stop him from just going and getting him? Sayid, Locke, Jack and Kate are all in The Village. As far as we know the Losties on the beach are defenseless, and they are outnumbered as well. I'm not sure I buy that theory.

I really feel that Juliet was left behind on purpose, but for what reason, I don't know. Whether it was because she was "marked" and now can't be trusted, or because she just isn't needed anymore (because they now have Locke?) I'm not sure. But nothing Ben has done has been an accident.

If Ben really wanted Aaron, what's to stop him from just going and getting him? Sayid, Locke, Jack and Kate are all in The Village. As far as we know the Losties on the beach are defenseless, and they are outnumbered as well. I'm not sure I buy that theory.

Simple. Because in order to be successful, Claire has to want to give up Aaron. Remember when Ethan took her, he could have just taken the baby but he spent a lot of time convincing her giving up Aaron was the best thing and it had to be her choice. I think that's important. It's the same reason why it wasn't enough for Jack to be forced to save Ben's life in surgery, he had to want to save his life. Ben knows this is a required element to getting anything done on the island. Recall further that Ben told Juliet in the Pearl that they couldn't simply walk in and take Jack, Kate and Sawyer, they had to get them to go to them. They had to willingly go to their side of the island to get taken.

Based on what Ben told Locke about the magic of the island and wish fulfillment, I think they know they can't just go and take people or force them to do things. Ethan's abduction attempt was likely a mistake and did not end well for him.

I think Juliet knows she has to work her way into the camp, gain their trust, reveal to Jack and Claire that they are siblings and then use Jack to convince Claire to give Aaron up for his best interest. Or, Juliet may try to eliminate Claire from the equation altogether, and any other obstacle that stands in her way, until someone gives Aaron up.

As we've seen, the Others are not averse to coercion, but just like with Sawyer's cons, they have to make you think it's your idea. (Like with Locke blowing up the sub).

So I see how this works. Ben sends Juliet out with Kate to gain her trust and with Jack's support, infiltrate the Losties. Why? I think she's still after Aaron.

I was floored that she had the key to the cuffs. She pretended she didn't but knew she did and only had to show her hand when smokey was bearing down on them and it was her only means of escape. She can turn the fence on and off and she had the key. She's got pretty high level clearance. I can't believe they would banish her with all the knowledge she has. It's too risky. I think she was sent off with them on purpose and is up to something. Sayid is right not to trust her.


Exactly! She is definitely after Aaron. Hopefully Sayid will be able to gain valuable info from her before she dies (because Smokey definitely will get her now).
100%


Sayid didn't trust Ben either from the moment he saw him. They tipped their hand there, too, I guess if you want to look at it that way.

Sayid's usually right about things like this too. This is very good thinking and I'm leaning towards it. The only reason that I'm still on the fence is because Sayid didn't really seem to "read" her, he just made a gut reaction. If he talks to her next episode and still doesn't trust her then I'm on board. Sayid's the man.

Its about revenge, Juliet is after Charlie for killing Ethan, I can't wait to see what happens when Desmond lays eyes on Juliet.

That's a very interesting thought... I like that. If she knows/finds out that Charlie is the one who offed him, then I expect retaliation definately, whether she's being honest now or not.

See my post above. I don't think it's about Charlie and Ethan. It's about Claire and Aaron.

Simple. Because in order to be successful, Claire has to want to give up Aaron. Remember when Ethan took her, he could have just taken the baby but he spent a lot of time convincing her giving up Aaron was the best thing and it had to be her choice. I think that's important. It's the same reason why it wasn't enough for Jack to be forced to save Ben's life in surgery, he had to want to save his life. Ben knows this is a required element to getting anything done on the island. Recall further that Ben told Juliet in the Pearl that they couldn't simply walk in and take Jack, Kate and Sawyer, they had to get them to go to them. They had to willingly go to their side of the island to get taken.

Based on what Ben told Locke about the magic of the island and wish fulfillment, I think they know they can't just go and take people or force them to do things. Ethan's abduction attempt was likely a mistake and did not end well for him.

I think Juliet knows she has to work her way into the camp, gain their trust, reveal to Jack and Claire that they are siblings and then use Jack to convince Claire to give Aaron up for his best interest. Or, Juliet may try to eliminate Claire from the equation altogether, and any other obstacle that stands in her way, until someone gives Aaron up.

As we've seen, the Others are not averse to coercion, but just like with Sawyer's cons, they have to make you think it's your idea. (Like with Locke blowing up the sub).


They almost sound like Lost Boys - they have to be invited in. :biggrin:

I just assumed that the time they spend convincing Claire was to keep her calm, and sedate, which would be better for the baby.

And they flat-out abducted the Tailies. No one asked them or tried to convince them that it was for their own good to go.

I think there are mind games, and then there are violent acts that they commit because they believe they are justified in doing them.

See my post above. I don't think it's about Charlie and Ethan. It's about Claire and Aaron.

I don't think it's "about" Charlie either, I suspect that if she really was sent to them then it was to get Aaron. But, I still think there may end up being retaliation if she sees Charlie.

I don't think it's "about" Charlie either, I suspect that if she really was sent to them then it was to get Aaron. But, I still think there may end up being retaliation if she sees Charlie.

Well I guess we won't know for sure until we see it, but my guess is that since everyone assumes she was working with Ethan and agreed with his goals, I think the twist will be that she was against what Ethan was doing but was involved anyway because she had to be. She might even have enlisted Alex to help Claire. I don't think she will hold a grudge against Charlie. My guess is Juliet was no fan of Ethan. It seemed like he creeped her out when they first met.

I think she cuffed herself to Kate for one reason - to play mindgames with her. Ben is not the only one who likes to mess with people's minds. .

Defnately - I think she definitely is. She's the one who tells Kate that the Others left because of her - making Kate feel bad. She had the handcuff key and only unlocked herself when she was threatened with what she believed to be death.

Also remember we couldn't hear what Ben was saying to her when he wanted to see her. But whatever it was made her cry,,,,,,,, perhaps she was " being left behind again" meaning she has to mindf**k the Losties again. Like she had to with Jack. She was bringing both of them sandwiches- she's the one who has to "examine" them. She has Jack's file memorized too - like she's been working on it. Also she was with Ben once so I'm sure he rubbed off on her - maybe its her turn to be "captured" by them (like Ben was)- try to learn about them to kill and brainwash. Also Sayid's track record for picking out lairs is perfect. Danielle said "they will lie and lie and lie and lie.........." = Juliette

Defnately - I think she definitely is. She's the one who tells Kate that the Others left because of her - making Kate feel bad. She had the handcuff key and only unlocked herself when she was threatened with what she believed to be death.

Also remember we couldn't hear what Ben was saying to her when he wanted to see her. But whatever it was made her cry,,,,,,,, perhaps she was " being left behind again" meaning she has to mindf**k the Losties again. Like she had to with Jack. She was bringing both of them sandwiches- she's the one who has to "examine" them. She has Jack's file memorized too - like she's been working on it. Also she was with Ben once so I'm sure he rubbed off on her - maybe its her turn to be "captured" by them (like Ben was)- try to learn about them to kill and brainwash. Also Sayid's track record for picking out lairs is perfect. Danielle said "they will lie and lie and lie and lie.........." = Juliette



I actually kind of agree with you:

Let me quote myself from the poll thread about this topic:

Ben gassed her and chucked her in with Kate DEEP into monster territory,
because Ben was blackmailed into letting her live.
And that makes him look weak, and as we know, he doesn't like that.

SHE handcuffs HERSELF to Kate, and this is the part that actually makes me think she is NOT a spy.

Because after three YEARS of mindgames and always guessing the angle, Juliet has basically forgotten what it was like to interact as a normal human being.
She wakes up first and realizes what is going on, and handcuffs herself to Kate in a desperate attempt at being accepted by these new and scary group of people she KNOWS has every right to hate her guts.

This is the act of a single mind, not a conspiracy.
A single mind who has been SO afraid in her life, and still managed to raise herself up and promised that she would never be afraid again, its written all over her face.
So when this scary change of events takes place, she wants to take control of the situation.
She wants to SCAM Kate into liking her, force them into accepting her, because its the only thing she knows how to do.

Its sad really, but it shows us the depth of the Juliet character.


-Exodus

I don't think Juliet will look for retaliation with Charlie. The Others supposedly aren't very forgiving, but with the exception of Pickett have we seen an Other get revenge? Locke flat out told Ben he killed Mikhael. Locke is not being punished, yet anyways. You could make a case for Ben trying to kill Ana-Lucia in the swan hatch for revenge for killing Goodwin, but if Ben wanted her dead for that she would've been dead way before that. And do the Others even know that it was Charlie who killed Ethan?

I think the number one thing on Juliet's agenda is going home, and she will do whatever it takes to do that. In my opinion, her mission is to get Aaron.

I actually kind of agree with you:
Let me quote myself from the poll thread about this topic:

Ben gassed her and chucked her in with Kate DEEP into monster territory,
because Ben was blackmailed into letting her live.
And that makes him look weak, and as we know, he doesn't like that.

SHE handcuffs HERSELF to Kate, and this is the part that actually makes me think she is NOT a spy.

Because after three YEARS of mindgames and always guessing the angle, Juliet has basically forgotten what it was like to interact as a normal human being.
She wakes up first and realizes what is going on, and handcuffs herself to Kate in a desperate attempt at being accepted by these new and scary group of people she KNOWS has every right to hate her guts.

This is the act of a single mind, not a conspiracy.
A single mind who has been SO afraid in her life, and still managed to raise herself up and promised that she would never be afraid again, its written all over her face.
So when this scary change of events takes place, she wants to take control of the situation.
She wants to SCAM Kate into liking her, force them into accepting her, because its the only thing she knows how to do.
Its sad really, but it shows us the depth of the Juliet character.
-Exodus

Interesting - could be this too especially the whole handcuff part. But see I don't trust her one bit and I am convinced she is up to no good. Just like when Kate says to her that "you are acting like you didn't have me in a cage and watch me chop rocks (somethin like that)" - and she is exactly right ...

Exodus, I totally agree with you. I'm sorry I missed that post the first time around, and thanks for quoting it again.

Watching it again, it doesn't appear that Juliet knew that the rest of the Others were going to desert the village. Juliet acts surprised that Kate wants to go back there, and wants to know where they are going. Juliet doesn't want Kate to go back to Jack, and she is trying to wedge them apart, like when she says that Kate was the reason Jack didn't get to go home, and that Jack's reason for telling her not to come back was broken heart. I think Juliet got gassed, and then woke up and took Kate with her (left Jack and Sayid behind) so that she could go back with Kate to the beach, or maybe somewhere else?? That's why the gate was unlocked, so that she could leave, and maybe she even intended for the monster to kill Jack and Sayid. The monster threw a wrench in her plans by coming for her. I think she was left behind by Ben to cause problems with Jack, also because he knew she was disloyal, or wanted to leave (she was reluctant to come there in the first place). When Juliet says, "I didn't want to get left behind again..." I think she was partly telling the truth, but she was more scared that Jack, Sayid, and Kate would not let her come with them. That's why she handcuffed herself to Kate, and it was only the monster that made her take off those cuffs. I don't think it's Ben's idea (the cuffs, that she go with them). I think the Others really abandoned her. Juliet has always seemed like somewhat of an independent character to me. And can I just say that I love Sayid? He's always the voice of reason, unless, of course, he's shoving bamboo shoots under your fingernails.

Off the topic, but has anyone started a "what happened?" drinking game yet? I think you would have had at least two shots in this episode, at least.

Off the topic, but has anyone started a "what happened?" drinking game yet? I think you would have had at least two shots in this episode, at least.

I want to see every lostie sitting in a circle on the beach with a half dozen bottles of MacCutcheons, then we'd really get somewhere; Claire-"Hey Jack, did I ever tell you about my dad?'..."Locke-"Hey Sayid, that reminds me of a woman I met in LA once"...

Back on topic; Q: Did Jack look broken hearted after watching those two make out? I didn't see it.

The whole thing tonight (clearing out the Other's camp) was an elaborate ruse, much like Ben with his Henry Gale balloon story. A sympathy vote lets you gain entrance into the Lostie's lair. It's insane that she's being allowed to come with them.. She just lied to Kate about 2 things (the key and the monster) mere hours ago.

Good for Sayid for not wanting her to come.
I'm thinking that this may be a set-up for a future split in the Losties: Jack leading the pro-Juliette camp and Sayid leading the anti-Juliette camp.

The two groups may even come to blows someday. This may even be a mechanism for separating "good" from "bad".

Back on topic; Q: Did Jack look broken hearted after watching those two make out? I didn't see it.
After watching Kate and Sawyer make out? IMO broken hearted didn't begin to decribe it. He looked betrayed, hurt, shocked, upset, all at the same time.

This post made me think of the scene in 314 with Juliet and Ben looking at Jack in that station. She was in on that scam from the beginning, made the comment that he was cute, and Ben talked about his love of mindgames. I am on the side of Juliet's latest to be part of another of Ben's cons. The Aaron one makes sense. But so does simply trying to fracture the Losties to make the weak run from the pack so that they can be hunted easily.

I don't even think she was gased by the others like she said. If you think about it she's going to be the perfect double agent. She's already started separating Kate and Jack, and gotten herself even closer too Jack. Having done this nobody can touch her. Sayid will not be able to interrogate her and Jack will defend her. And she can tell them any kind of story as to what happened and they'll never have a clue as to if it's true. Ben probably planted her there because he knows Jack has some sort of feelings for her.

I would totally believe that Juliet has always been acting as part of a bigger scheme designed by Ben. Just when she shows signs of being trustworthy, she shows herself to be not trustworthy or at least suspicious. I don't think she's after Aaron or Charlie specifically. I think she's there to spy on the Losties, find their weaknesses and eventually report back to Ben.

Juliet's actions in this episode strike me as absolutely odd.
To begin with, I can't understand why she handcuffed herself to Kate. What does she accomplish with that? Not getting closer to her, not by far. The only thing she got herself doing that, was a good beating, a nice tête à tête with Smokey and finally to put some not so nice thoughts in Kate's head. I'm pretty sure that Smokey visit was unexpected, the beating was a side effect of her words, so the only deliberated thing was pushing Kate's buttons very, very hard. Juliet knows well that Jack and Sawyer are her soft spots, and she did exploited tem...
She might be trying the cause a great divide between Jack and Kate, or thinking bigger, a great division in the losties camp. Why? No clue. But I keep thinking in this algorithmic technique called divide and conquer.
I think that Juliet is another pawn in a big, dangerous chess game. Or maybe not chess but backgammon.

of course she was left behind on purpose, and yes she is in it with Ben.

I am not sure if she is sold on the whole higher purpose thing, I think she is just trying to get home by doing whatever they tell her to do.

Is this Juliet?

I thought it was her and there really isn't a clear screen shot - but on my HD tv - right before this picture - this girl looks exactly like Juliet including the clothes.

If that's true - then she wasn't gassed.

http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage-1273-198.html

no. they forgot her.

it wasn't on purpose
it was an accident

Why would they forget her? She knows to much.

hey. they've got a lot on their minds. they just OOPS forgot

I just don't trust Juliet ! I think that she has her game on and that she learned too much of Ben's way's ...being a good liar and a great manipulator. The fact that she had a key on her the whole time she was cuffed to Kate makes me real suspicous. And the fact that she knew the where abouts of Jack and Sayid ?! How was she so certain that they didn't go with the Other's ? Pfff...she fit's somewhere in Ben's plans...just exactly what...I'm not sure. Maybe he wants to add more strife with the Losties. Ben knows the deal. He knows that Jack saw what Sawyer and Kate did. He also knows that Jack and Juliet have been getting close. He probably also knows that Kate came back to Othersville to get Jack. In Ben's mind he probably even figured out that Kate and Sawyer are on the out's because Sawyer wasn't with Kate ! So this was all his big plan that he contrived...put Juliet with Kate. Since he left Jack at Othersville, he probably figured that Kate would not leave Jack no matter what. The whole Kate/Jack/Juliet triangle was the plan of his master scheme. Jack being the man he is, gaining trust in Juliet, would not just abandon her. It is almost predictable that he wouldn't leave her and bring her home with them. And this is where the strife comes in because people are not going to be too happy to see an Other living among them. Sayid is right...I'd leave her butt there ! No good coming out of this at all...

Okay how about this .... Juliet was in on the plan about gassing Kate and Jack/Sayid (and leaving Othersville)...maybe the plan was for her to handcuff Jack and kate together or Kate/Sayid (this is why she had a key to the cuffs). Unaware of Ben's scheme, he turned his back on her and had her be the one to be cuffed to Kate ? She was Actually Left Behind ! He duped her ! So she may had told Kate some of the truth but not all of it (that she was in on some of the plans) .

my theory is this:

Ben decided to banish Juliet
after they gassed her they infected her with "the sickness"
and chained her to Kate
ensuring that Kate would eventually take her back to the beach camp to unknowingly infect all of our Losties

my theory is this:

Ben decided to banish Juliet
after they gassed her they infected her with "the sickness"
and chained her to Kate
ensuring that Kate would eventually take her back to the beach camp to unknowingly infect all of our Losties

wheel...

yours is probably the best theory I've read regarding ms. juliet. on the ABC podcast, Darlton hint at a fallout between Ben & Juliet....plus, she was about to leave her people on a sub and she's killed an other.....killing her would put Ben in a terrible position with his people, but infecting her and leaving her behind...why that's genius.

as for whether the girl in blue con gas mask is juliet....when she wakes to Kate wielding a knife, we see that she's not wearing a belt...the woman in blue is wearing a brown belt, has a brown holster, and appears to be wearing lighter jeans.....

just some thoughts from a new recruit.
mahalo
jobe.

Great comments here!

I tend to develop half-baked LOST theories, because at some point I just give up b/c there's not enough information ...

However, I do believe that Juliet means to get back to the beach and join the Losties for *bad* reasons.

Juliet's first con was to handcuff herself to Kate in order to have Kate take her back to the beach. But Kate foiled that idea by wanting to go back for Jack. Then Juliet tried again: "You broke his heart!" .... And still, Kate wanted to go back for Jack. Juliet tried really hard to get back to the beach, but Kate's character-flaw got in Juliet's way every time! (Bummer for Juliet.)

But, in the end, Jack decided that Juliet went with them back to the beach. (Yeah, Juliet!)

So next week, we'll see some Juliet flashbacks ....

Here's the clues that I believe the LOST story is pointing to:

1. Juliet is a fertility doctor.
2. The Others have some weird interest [to date, not revealed] with children (Walt, Alex, Claire's baby in Season 1).
3. Sun is in early pregnancy.


Also, I noticed that Ethan will appear in next week's flashbacks.
I was thinking about Ethan, too ......

1. In Season 1, Ethan killed 1 man and almost killed Charlie in order to get Claire back. In other words .... HE REALLY WANTED CLAIRE BACK!
2. Ethan was killed.

So ...... Can we assume that Ethan did not get to FINISH whatever business he had with Claire?! Whatever he was doing to her or with her did not get completed because he was killed. Aaron was born, and he appears to be healthy -- although the writers have played with us regarding some rashes and sickness. They've also teased us with the vaccine that Charlie gave to Claire and which she administered to her baby. WHAT'S THAT ALL ABOUT ?? Desmond said it didn't work. Well, DOES IT WORK OR NOT?

I guess I'm saying that we have Claire's baby who seems to have escaped the "usual treatment" cycle .... and we have Sun's fetus, who is probably in line for the "usual treatment" cycle.

Who better to make that happen than Juliet ?

Finally ......... The Jack/Claire brother/sister thing ....

I have a feeling the reveal of this will not be a "touchy-feely" RETURN OF THE JEDI (Luke/Leia) moment. If I know the LOST writers, then they will probably use the relationship to provide some sort of drama.

Wouldn't it be interesting if Claire was threatened and Jack, finding out his relationship to her, had to make a tough decision: HIS SISTER vs. JULIET ??!!

One last, last thing ........

How long is Elizabeth Mitchell (Juliet) contracted to be on LOST?

Will she be back next season?

Or will her character's story arc with Season Three's final episodes?

That's my $2.50.

:kiss:

I just rewatched the episode and the person dressed in blue is not Juliet.She has a different body frame.

Yes, Juliet was left behind on purpose.
Never forget, Ben has more than once shown himself as the ultimate manipulator who stops at nothing to get what he wants.
The only view we as the viewer had on Juliet's trial and sentencing as an outsider by the others was Jack's, and let's face it, he was manipulated all the way. The way I see it, it's a brilliant scheme.
Ben wanted Jack to start trusting Juliet, and the only way he could achieve that was to make him suspicous of her, and to create the suspicion in Jack that Ben wanted to make him bond with Juliet. Hence his comments about "she bears a resemblance to your ex-wife" and stuff. Jack at that point didn't want to trust anybody, period.
Now, we always assumed that Kate and Sawyer were taken to make Jack comply with going through with the surgery. I think that's right, but I think their kidnapping also served another purpose right from the start.
Ben knew that Jack would be ready and willing to do anything to get Kate (and also Sawyer) to safety, even if it meant that he was to be left behind. So he manipulated Jack again by letting him see Kate and Sawyer cuddling, thusly ensuring Jack's emotional uproar and his compliance to make that deal - get me off the island and let them go.
Thusly Ben ensured that his primary goal was reached - Jack would go through with the surgery to save Ben's life. Now, I think that somebody like Ben does plan for all eventualities. It was obvious that if he brought himself into such a vulnerable position like a surgery, nobody else would be able to help him should Jack try anything funny. After all, the others don't have the medical knowledge. I'm fairly sure Ben judged correctly that Jack wouldn't kill him. There was no gain in that, because then Jack wouldn't get his end of the deal. But I'm sure he knew that Jack would try something to ensure that Kate and Sawyer were let go.
So the second part of the manipulation started. Juliet has her little video show with Jack, begging him to kill Ben. I think Ben knew about this, in fact planned it. It served to implant the idea of there being a rift amongst the Others in Jack's mind, the thought that there might be a possible ally in Juliet. But still Jack refused to trust her, and his conscience wouldn't allow him to kill somebody in cold blood, anyway.
The ultimate twist in this con is when Jack went through with his plan and threatened to let Ben bleed out, Juliet sprang into action. She ensured that Kate and Sawyer escaped, even shooting one of her own to make sure that Jack's friends were safe. I never bought that, just as little as I bought that Ben promised her that he'd let her leave the island in their small chat in the operating room. More likely, he told her how to go through with the plan from now on, and Juliet starts crying because she realises what she'll be possibly facing.
Now Jack thinks he's gotten what he wanted. He made sure that Kate and Sawyer got away and he got his deal. The beauty of the plan is that what happens next also creates his trust in Juliet. Jack gets to know that she is to be sentenced for killing one of her own. Jack's conscience kicks in, since it's been him who brought this upon her (by creating the situation in which she had to do it, and by inadvertedly ratting out on her plea to kill Ben).
So when Jack gets to know that Juliet is about to be killed for what she did, he bargains for her life. Anybody else think that Ben was rather quick to comply with Jack's plea and asked for something to write the message on? After all, why should he? He had already made a deal with Jack, he didn't owe him to add anything to that deal just because Jack asked nicely. So why did he do it? Because Ben had planned the whole thing. He was in it, and Juliet. The other Others weren't, they were just following their leader's decision not to kill Juliet and instead branded her.
To what result? Jack now trusts Juliet. After all, she did something to help him which she knew would get her killed, she is now an outcast of her own group, and Jack's natural disposition is to offer her a safer place to stay. Hence, he's taking her back to the losties' beach.
Problem is, that was Ben's plan all along, and Juliet is in on it. She sill only answers to Ben. Why would she do that? Well, just like Jack, she seems willing to do anything to get off the island. Also, she's stayed for three years with people who have been involved in schemes, kidnappings and even cold-blooded murder, and that's only for the past three months. So yes, I think she's capable of being involved in this, whether out of conviction or out of the true desire to leave and go home.
I don't think her purpose is to go after Aaron specifically, but she definitely is up to something, whether it's general spying or some specific and yet unknown task, but we haven't heard the last of this.
Just my two cents on that matter (though the length of the post suggests something more like 1.25$:biggrin:)

I totally agree 100%. Ben orchestrated everything this season between Jack, Sawyer, and Kate, all leading up to his "end game". But I think his goal is also to get Locke. I'm not sure why, but in Expose we were led to beleive that maybe Locke is a better person than Ben and that is why he can walk and Ben can't.

Juliet is evil. I have thought this since the first time we met her. IMOHO she has totally commited to the island (we don't know what her and Ben talked about when he was on the operating table). She is probably after Aaron. I think that Ben was born on the island under similar circumstances as was Alex. I hope Sayid kicks her butt.
100%
I'm thinking that this may be a set-up for a future split in the Losties: Jack leading the pro-Juliette camp and Sayid leading the anti-Juliette camp.

The two groups may even come to blows someday. This may even be a mechanism for separating "good" from "bad".

This is a good theory, but based on the episode I think Jack is the leader of the pro Juliet group and Sawyer is the leader of the Anti-Juliet group. Remember when he met her at the hydra, he told Kate that Juliet would have killed her.

Yes Juliet was left behind. I think Juliet turned on Ben but he was blackmailed by Jack into letting her live. Ben would lose face if he had Juliet, Jack, Kate & Sayid killed at this point. He does not want them along so he does the next best thing to killing them, he dumps them thus "keeping his word" to the best of his ability and saving face with his own group.

Juliet now has no place to go except to the Beach Town with the Lostees (& her man Jack ;) ). She tried to con Kate because she wanted to neutralize the person she sees as the main obstacle to her going to the Lostees. I think her motive at this point is not infiltration or Aaron it is survival.

If we look at the sequence of events surrounding the gasing/the handcuffing we can gain some insight into this issue.

First we need to assume that Juliet wasn't gassed. The only way the handcuffing would have played out if Juliet had been gassed, would have been for Juliet to wake up, devise her theory to handcuff herself to Kate, run back to Othersville, grab the cuffs, etc. There are a couple other options too but they are equally as contrived and improbable.

So, if Juliet wasn't gassed, she must have seen The Others packing up. The only way this wouldn't have happened is if for some reason Juliet was away at that time. Again, this would be a really weak, contrived explanation as we know Juliet was there early in the morning (after the sub "blew up").

I think we can all agree that Juliet is still being dishonest, the question is just whether her motives are Ben's or her owns. Going off the timeline it's extremely probable that she at least knew that the Others were leaving, but I can't say definitively whether or not she stayed behind willingly. However, my instinct is to say that she's still working with Ben.

However, in this week's podcast TPTB imply that Ben had another reason to abandon Juliet, something personal. So, I don't know, maybe TPTB made a mistake with the timeline here, who knows?...

There are also the practical issues of Juliet's knowledge of The Others, as well as her value as a doctor, especially now that Ethan, and apparently Jack are gone.

First we need to assume that Juliet wasn't gassed. The only way the handcuffing would have played out if Juliet had been gassed, would have been for Juliet to wake up, devise her theory to handcuff herself to Kate, run back to Othersville, grab the cuffs, etc.

Wouldn't a far easier option be for some of The Others to carry both of them to that spot, handcuff them together and give Juliet a key just to play mindgames with them?

It's obvious to me (and always has been) that Juliet can NOT be trusted. But what on earth is she really playing at by infiltrating the Losties? And furthermore, what on earth do the Others really want? I hope to high heaven we find our THIS season!

As far as the idea that she's going after Aaron, I'd love that. It would give a bigger purpose to all that Ethan kidnapping Claire stuff that to this day has not been answered or even referred to! :mad:
But the idea that she's getting revenge on Charlie about Ethan, I really don't buy it. Ethan and her didn't seem close at all and I always got the feeling that Ethan had a creepy kinda thing for Claire. :sick:

I think Juliet would do anything to get home. That includes going along with Ben's mind games with the Losties. I think she has to prove to him that they can trust her again. What better way than to be a spy. We saw from the flashbacks she let her ex husband treat her like crap. She simply repeats it with Ben. If they left , she knows where they went. She's just doing the same infiltration game that Ethan played. I even think she knows more than she's saying about smokie. She simply thought since she was handcuffed to Kate she would get the smokie treatment instead of the other's treatment (It doesn't usually bother them). That's why when it came close she panicked and unlocked herself and used the fence to stop it. I think Sayid is right on to not trust her. No way she was simply "left behind".

I still have a nagging feeling that Jack and Juliet (and maybe Tom) are in on something together. Locke's intrusion has clearly thrown a curve ball into the works. This is a REALLY sketchy idea, because of Juliet's actions. Other ideas/throughts:

Kate is a really volatile character: one minute she's ready to blow someone's leg off, and the next she's crying over ruining Jack's life. She seems wracked with guilt/remorse, but not that much.

When Jack left Kate in the billiards room, he did that last minute "I will come back for you" move. That indicated to me that he was going along with something but had a back up, or a master plan. I have thought this since he was interrogated by Isabel, and asked to go back to his cell. I think Jack wants Juliet to think that he's down with her (as demonstrated by her triumphant look after he ruled that she was to come back to the camp with them), but has something in mind -- maybe he was even going to try to comandeer the submarine to take all the survivors back. From what Ben said to Locke, though, there is no way off of the island -- there is only the "illusion" of escape -- leading me to believe that Ben intended to kill Jack and Juliet or have them killed at sea. This is where I think Tom may be in on it, because he may want off of the island too.

Jack's acting weird, or unusual, and I don't think it's just because of Kate and Sawyer's tryst. I mean, Sawyer also had Anna Lucia, who was also cuddly with Jack. Jack's acting very odd for his character...something has definitely changed, but there's really not a lot to go on; to me it just seems like he is up to something. Sayid seems on guard too, and we'll see what Juliet tells him -- probably NOTHING.

I'm really sick of getting crumbs. It's like the joke on SNL --

"ABC announced that it's hit show LOST will return for a fourth season, upon learning this the writers said, "Oh, crap." :) :) :)

Wouldn't a far easier option be for some of The Others to carry both of them to that spot, handcuff them together and give Juliet a key just to play mindgames with them?

IMO this explanation is still really weak. I think that Ben can come up with much better ways of messing people than "oh hey lets put a key in her pocket, that was Kate will get upset!". Also Juliet definitely knew that she had the key, and exactly where it was. Watch the scene; she reaches right for her back pocket.

I think the asleep in the jungle and handcuffed together was all Juliet as a set up to con Kate. I depart from most of the posters in this thread in seeing the goal of the con as being either to forge a link with Kate or at least to neutralize her as an opponent so that Juliet can join the Lostee group. I don't believe Juliet has additional designs on Aaron and I don't think she is trying to infiltrate the Lostees for Ben's benefit. Joining the Lostees is her main chance for a decent life on the island now that she can not go home and has been booted out of the Others. That puts Jack in the role of her protector or sponsor for joining the Lostees and she is trying to minimize the potential opposition from Kate who she sees as a rival for Jack's regard and as a hostile (to her) person.

She knew she had the key...

She knew the fence was turned off...

She knew that Sayid was still locked up in one of the backyards...

She knew.

As a fertility specialist she'd be pretty interested in Sun & Jin right now wouldn't she?

Simple. Because in order to be successful, Claire has to want to give up Aaron. Remember when Ethan took her, he could have just taken the baby but he spent a lot of time convincing her giving up Aaron was the best thing and it had to be her choice. I think that's important. It's the same reason why it wasn't enough for Jack to be forced to save Ben's life in surgery, he had to want to save his life. Ben knows this is a required element to getting anything done on the island.

How does this theory make any sense? Based on what Russo has explained it doesn't seem as if the others "convinced" her to give up her child... the Others abducted her daughter. Furthermore, there was definitely no convincing when the others kidnapped Walt either ... they pulled up in a boat with guns and snatched him from his father. As for the part about Jack and Ben's surgery, the Others captured Jack ... and it would have been impractical to "force" Jack to save Ben's life. They may be able to keep Jack hostage in a fish tank but they must coerce him into saving Ben's life ... one cannot force another to save one's life.

The Others simply use force when they can and have to ... and use manipulation or coercion when it's required ... and their approach is determined by their objective.

How does this theory make any sense?

Didn't say you had to like it. :undecide: Sheesh.

Based on what Russo has explained it doesn't seem as if the others "convinced" her to give up her child... the Others abducted her daughter. Furthermore, there was definitely no convincing when the others kidnapped Walt either ... they pulled up in a boat with guns and snatched him from his father. As for the part about Jack and Ben's surgery, the Others captured Jack ... and it would have been impractical to "force" Jack to save Ben's life. They may be able to keep Jack hostage in a fish tank but they must coerce him into saving Ben's life ... one cannot force another to save one's life.

The Others simply use force when they can and have to ... and use manipulation or coercion when it's required ... and their approach is determined by their objective.

As for your Walt and Alex examples, they didn't turn out well. Walt was sent away and Alex is a turncoat that hates her father. Yes Jack was abducted but for some reason they couldn't abduct him from his camp, he had to come to them first.

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Didn't say you had to like it. :undecide: Sheesh.

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As for your Walt and Alex examples, they didn't turn out well. Walt was sent away and Alex is a turncoat that hates her father. Yes Jack was abducted but for some reason they couldn't abduct him from his camp, he had to come to them first.

--what are you trying to say? Why would Claire need to be convinced that she needed to give up Aaron? Russo was not convinced of this ... Alex was too young to have realized that she was kidnapped ... and Aaron is too young to remember anything as well. So what if Walt and Alex didn't turn out well ... Walt was not as you say "sent away" he was let go/released b/c the others were willing to let Walt go in exchange for Jack, Kate and Sawyer. As for Alex she does not hate her "father" b/c she was kidnapped as a baby from her natural mother ... Ben has given Alex his own reasons to hate him ... we don't know but probably can assume that Alex has no idea that her mother gave birth to her on the island and is still living there (until 2 episodes ago, when Sayid mentioned it to Alex).

When Ben and Juliet were in the Pearl Station and Ben said that they couldn't just go and take Jack ... he was not speaking about the actual action of moving Jack from one side of the island to another, he meant it as he cannot take Jack and FORCE him to save Ben's life. Ben needed to provide Jack with a reason to save him. That reason is saving KAte (and Sawyer's) lives and/or being able to leave the island. The primary issue here was not HOW Jack got there, it was HOW he was going to convince Jack to save him.

It's not a matter of liking your theory. The fact of the matter is that you are using examples that do not coincide with the tactics used by the others. Whatever interest the others may have had (or still may have) with Aaron may not be their main concern anymore ... just like how they kidnapped Walt, but were willing to exchange him for Jack, Kate and Sawyer. It's all about leverage.

IMO this explanation is still really weak. I think that Ben can come up with much better ways of messing people than "oh hey lets put a key in her pocket, that was Kate will get upset!". Also Juliet definitely knew that she had the key, and exactly where it was. Watch the scene; she reaches right for her back pocket.

Who's to say she didn't discover it while Kate was asleep after their Smokey encounter? Juliet was already awake doing who knows what when Kate finally came to.

Juliet cannot be trusted. Her negative statements about Ben (mostly to Jack) have been aimed at gaining the trust of Jack, which she inexplicably has now. I don't think we ever heard Ben promise Juliet she could go home...that was surely a plot to get Jack thinking he could go home if he did the surgery on Ben. She has been in on this since the beginning. She is a plant to infiltrate the islanders...there must be others on the "List" who Ben wants to capture. But Juliet made a mistake by using the keys to the handcuffs -- Kate must be on to her somewhat, but her love of Jack will cloud her ability to use think as clearly as Sayid.

I Dont Trust Her A55........

I think she is probably a plant. Why didn't the Others just kill them? Why knock them out? If they left, as some have theorized, because the location of their settlement was compromised, would it not have been easier to eliminate them. Then no one has to move anywhere.

She is pretty much planned as a spy, for one shy had a key to unlock the handcuffs. How would she explain that later on if they reached the beach? Also the fact, she has seen smokie before, yet said she didn't. If she had seen it before, why was she not scared when she first heard it, she just looked confused. Then the fact she knew the fence was turned off. Its too convient. she's the obvious plant now.

Juliet is not legit, and as someone else posted she has done exactly what Ben wanted her to do in terms of befriending Jack and winning his trust.
The Others do not need anymore information about the Losties, they seem to know everything about them even their shoe size, so the only other reason must be Aaron and also now Sun being pregnant. Juliet was recruited because she is a fertility doctor this has to figure somewhere in the mix. She is not just there to play gooseberry with Jack, Kate and Sawyer there has to be more to this.
I love Sayid he's great and what I love about him right now is he's onto Juliet can he get passed Jack though, I see trouble ahead.:mad:

I think she is probably a plant. Why didn't the Others just kill them? Why knock them out? If they left, as some have theorized, because the location of their settlement was compromised, would it not have been easier to eliminate them. Then no one has to move anywhere.

Because "We're the good guys, Micheal" LOL.

Here's my theory though. Ben is very concerned about how the Others percieve him as a leader. When talking to Locke he said this, that letting Juliette and Jack leave the island presented a problem because if he let them go it made him look weak, and if he killed them it made him look like a man who doesn't keep his word. Furthermore, we saw the conversation between Jack and Ben where Jack said he wouldn't leave the island if his friends weren't freed, so that kind of holds Ben to his word as well. Being in a wheelchair with the island seeminly denying him of it's curative powers has hurt his image, plus there was an undercurrent of dissent if you believed it when Juliette said there were some Others who wanted another way and were plotting to remove Ben as a leader.

It's kind of funny, we think that Ben holds all the cards and is one step ahead, but Jack has really played his cards well too as he's put Ben in the position where he can't just kill everybody without loosing credibility as a leader in his people's eyes.

Because "We're the good guys, Micheal" LOL.

Here's my theory though. Ben is very concerned about how the Others percieve him as a leader. When talking to Locke he said this, that letting Juliette and Jack leave the island presented a problem because if he let them go it made him look weak, and if he killed them it made him look like a man who doesn't keep his word. Furthermore, we saw the conversation between Jack and Ben where Jack said he wouldn't leave the island if his friends weren't freed, so that kind of holds Ben to his word as well. Being in a wheelchair with the island seeminly denying him of it's curative powers has hurt his image, plus there was an undercurrent of dissent if you believed it when Juliette said there were some Others who wanted another way and were plotting to remove Ben as a leader.

It's kind of funny, we think that Ben holds all the cards and is one step ahead, but Jack has really played his cards well too as he's put Ben in the position where he can't just kill everybody without loosing credibility as a leader in his people's eyes.Yay! I'm not alone in my thinking on why Ben would leave them not kill them.:cool: A matter of maintaining face with his followers. Re was Juliet left behind on purpose? Of course she was - If you are part of a small group like the Others how can you forget and accidently leave behind one of your hottest ladies esp when she is your remaining member with a medical degree. So the real questions we have been talking about are Why was she left behind? and was it voluntary? I think Ben left her and Jack & Kate & Sayid behind to remove a problem and at the same time keep his word so he would not lose face. Was it voluntary on her part? I think so. Survival might be her real motive. She has lost her status with the Others but she has found an admission ticket to the Lostees in Jack. She tried to neutralize Kate, the person she sees as a rival for Jack, with her forge a link, hand cuff ruse. Now she is off to make the best life she can as a Lostee.