besides kates competition is she a plant or a Lost other?

I say Plant

How can Jack trust her? ... she is a spy!!! She can't be trusted ... I hope Sayid tortures her!

Yep, that pretty much is the BIG QUESTION that will be on all the Survivors' minds next week. From the looks of things, next week's episode is definitely going to be a "must watch" one...

I'm beginning to think Juliet is the ultimate spy.

I think she's a plant...but if she really is, its too blatantly obvious and I'm going to be disappointed. The Others have thrown plants in all over the place at this point, and for it to happen again, well its just getting redundant. Honestly I'd have to side with Sayid on this one. Ethan and Ben have already been plants at their camp alone (not to mention Goodwin with the tail section), what reason do they have to open up to her so trustingly?

How can Jack trust her? ... she is a spy!!! She can't be trusted ... I hope Sayid tortures her!

I was pleased that Kate knocked the smirk off Juliet's face finally.
Torture? Would that be hoping for too much?:biggrin:

100% plant. She showed us enough this episode that she couldn't be trusted; she pretended not to know what the smoke monster was (even though she did), she left herself handcuffed to Kate (enough though she had the key). She knew what was going on.

She was obviously outcast from the Others for killing, which would imply Lost other..... but that could have been an act in itself (her outcast, not the murder)

How can Jack trust her? ... she is a spy!!! She can't be trusted ... I hope Sayid tortures her!

I suppose I can see how Jack would trust her - since she was kind of his ally during his captivity and then got left behind with them too. But I don't trust her at all! I hope she does turn out to be a spy - it would make for an excellent storyline.

And besides, if Sayid is suspicious, that's enough for me. He picked up on Michael right away. If he thinks Juliet's a rat, I'm inclined to agree!

I posted about this in another thread but should have posted it here. She must be a plant. If she is the one who put the handcuffs on them, she had to have still been concious when Kate was gassed. I'm guessing she must have gone with the others who put Kate in the jungle and then cuffed them. It makes me wonder if she was ever really unconcious at all.

Plant definitely. Either because Ben sent her or because she sent herself in order to gain information or eliminate Losties so that Ben will be her ally again. Much as she may like Jack, Ben has the power to send her home.

100% plant. She showed us enough this episode that she couldn't be trusted; she pretended not to know what the smoke monster was (even though she did), she left herself handcuffed to Kate (enough though she had the key). She knew what was going on.

You articulated exactly what I was going to say! Total PLANT. The key, smoke montster, security fence, etc.

Maybe Jack is a plant too...much less obvious but he seems to be on Juliette's team now.

Juliet cannot be trusted, until we know more. Here is my thoughts....

1. Juliet may have been left behind for punishment.
2. Juliet was left behind to spy.
3. Juliet was left with a crime in mind.
4. Juliet wasn't left at all.

NOW, let me explain....Possibility 1 is one that I would personally like to believe.
Possibility 2 seems to be a more logical one seeing that these people have been pure evil throughout the episodes we see them and the episodes we don't.
#3 could also tie into 2 and also 4 when I explain it. Juliet could have been ordered to stay behind to kill or kidnap someone or who knows what else. Juliet may have been left behind to get revenge. Juliet may have stayed behind all by herself...that is #4. I think that Juliet could have stayed behind to get revenge for the ones that were killed.

and then there is Smokey....I think he reads minds or even transports information....who knows..

WHat are your thoughts??

Probably a plant. But - the Others did brand her which seemed to be pretty significant, at least to them. So right now, I'd rank her as someone who needs to be watched very carefully.

I believe not only that she is a plant, but the one who knocked Kate out...not by the gas but by the sandwich. The gas was fake...when it rolled out it said technicolor on the side I am pretty sure which I think means it was just a sort of spray paint or something. The gas was for effect to make kate think everyone who was exposed to the gas was knocked out...and not letting her know it was the sandwich which would have immediatly put her onto Juliets scheme.

Probably Jack and Sayid ate a sandwich too.

Plant definitely. Either because Ben sent her or because she sent herself in order to gain information or eliminate Losties so that Ben will be her ally again. Much as she may like Jack, Ben has the power to send her home.

This is what I'm thinking. I also agree with the fact that she was not unconscious when they were brought into the jungle. This must have been part of the deal she made with Ben. If she can get whatever Ben wants, then she has regained her place with the Others and Ben's trust, which probably equals a promise of a trip home from Ben.

I sure hope that arrogant witch dies soon.

When Smokey made his second appearance and Juliet was foolishly staring at him I was hoping Kate would rush forward and throw her on the sonic fence, Locke-style.

Plant Definitely. I think we need to ad a poll to this thread.

Yes, Sayid still hasn't got a chance to torture anyone this season. Juliet has to be his victim for the season.

I do not think she is a plant. It is too obvious of a conclusion and if we have learned anything yet, its that not everything is as it appears. Juliette was marked, she wanted Ben dead, Ben knows this, she also has feelings for Jack, and Ben had to get rid of her without killing her as he promised Jack he wouldn't do.

Smokey took recon pictures of Juliette and probably scanned her memory as well to use against her.

Juliette is going to turn out to be one of the "good" guys IMO. Remember, Ben manipulated people, and we have no idea what he threatened her with. People fear Ben, and do as they are told. I think she will add a great new development for the beachies now. Before it was Jack and Sawyer vying for Kate's affections, now its Juliette and a very jealous kate who will be vying for Jacks affections. And poor Sawyer has Hurley and Charlie, but I think he has lost Kate.

Juliet a spy? Maybe. Juliet said she had been on the island for three years. Juliet has an agenda as she definately wanted Jack to kill Ben during the operation. There is some ??? goal for Ben and his others and whatever that prize is Juliet would kill Ben to get it. IMO I think Juliet is going to try to somehow pursuade the Losties to go to war with Ben and his group, then Juliet would be able to have complete control over ???

Not a plant. This episode just sucked us in to the idea. That's a common artifice...lead the audience to believe one way very subtly, then reveal that's in fact wrong. Come on! How do you stretch a plane crash into a seven year episodic television show...you screw with people.

My vote is that Jack is still right and he is not conning Kate or Sayid (if Juliet were a plant then Jack would be the biggest fool on the island (perhaps the universe) or he'd be one of them now and conning Kate (I don't believe this for a minute. He does love Kate even though she banged Swayer and knew she'd try to come for him, that's why he was do damn convincing when he told her not to return, read "Tale of Two Cities" and understand the "love" motives of Sydney Carton.) But that is another thread...

I'd bet the house on this one, but then you don't know where my house is...ha.

I don't know, I'm a little curious as to what the cause was of Juliet's shoulder being dislocated the other three times.

Juliet obviously can't be trusted...look how many times she lied so convincingly to Kate. I'm thinking espc. of when the smoke monster was there...I couldn't understand how the Others could NOT know of that monster, but Juliet was so convincing in her facial expressions and attitude.
But she sure knew that it was dangerous, and when push came to shove, she knew how to escape it. She knew enough about it that she had to stop conning Kate, show that she had the handcuff key.

I agree w/ what others said about her trying to do something to get Ben to trust her again, since, like Nancy said:
Much as she may like Jack, Ben has the power to send her home.
Very insightful of you.

Jack & Juliet so easily started walking off together, leaving KATE behind!

I don't know, I'm a little curious as to what the cause was of Juliet's shoulder being dislocated the other three times.

Excatly! She's got some lightning fast reflexes, too, which to not seem to be explainable from ther previous life as a research scientist!

I really want her to spend time with Sayid, so we can see what he thinks- he hasn't been wrong yet!

I keep thinking of Rousseau saying Ben would lie, and lie and lie some more, and then Ben saying that no matter what Juliet says or does, she is one of them. She sure did kill Pucket though, and that would be hard to fake.. . .

I've got to lean towards her being a spy, even though it requires believing Ben.

She's got some lightning fast reflexes, too, which to not seem to be explainable from ther previous life as a research scientist!

I agree. Did you see how Kate went to attack her when she was brining her food. In like 2 seconds, Juliet ducked and flipped Kate. Great scene, but damn!

I'm not sure about Juliet until I see next week's episode. I want to believe she's good, but she can't be a weakling. Doesnt' make for great tv.

Just two weeks ago they were leaving the island and leaving Kate behind. Jack didn't make the deal for Kate to go with him. he made sure Ben kept his promise about Juliet going home.

Maybe Jack is a plant too...much less obvious but he seems to be on Juliette's team now.


That's a good point. Since we didn't see what happened to Juliet (making some tea?!?) or Jack prior to the gas attack, the possibility exists that one or both aren't "innocents" and serving some sort of agenda. Juliet's story in particular seems fishy, especially because she continues to be untruthful and actually had the keys (and a knife) to the cuffs. I wouldn't be surprised if her return to the Losties' camp has been carefully planned and she has a plan to execute one she gets there (Aaron?). Jack could very well be in on it.

I think plant, but why?

If the Others want to infiltrate the camp, why not just infiltrate it. Why a plant? It's not like the Losties are working on some top secret master plan that the others need to have intelligence on. They are just trying to survive.

Not a plant. This episode just sucked us in to the idea. That's a common artifice...lead the audience to believe one way very subtly, then reveal that's in fact wrong.

(if Juliet were a plant then Jack would be the biggest fool on the island.)

Well, that's not fair, cuz I've always believed that many of the things Jack did were the actions of an impulsive fool....
see, I can do it too--looked like I was going to defend Jack at first, right? ha.
Which means I definitely agree w/ you that it could be the writers playing a game of leading us to believe ill of Juliet, only to show her goodness. (Shades of Shannon and Jin.)

Ben, we love to hate. But Juliet, we'd love to love her. We WANT to love her.

I posted about this in another thread but should have posted it here. She must be a plant. If she is the one who put the handcuffs on them, she had to have still been concious when Kate was gassed. I'm guessing she must have gone with the others who put Kate in the jungle and then cuffed them. It makes me wonder if she was ever really unconcious at all.This is exactly what I was thinking. Also, why would Kate & Juliet be dumped far off in the jungle with Jack & Sayid left at the housing complex? That totally made no sense. I think Juliet carried Kate out there herself to try to bond with her (knowing full well her story) and go back for Jack whom I believe is in on it as well. Sayid was an unfortunate extra thumb, so to speak...

Just curious to see a show of hands. . ..

You should add a poll here!

I vote SPY!

spy or ally?

great question.

she's pretty good at faking both.

it's hard to tell at this point.

but i'll will say this; she learned a lot from ben.

Spy!!!!

Thanks for adding the poll - I placed my vote for Spy -

I do feel bad for her though if her sister really is pregnant and back without her :(

I"m undecided, can't wait to see what she tells sayid! I also want to know how her shoulder got dislocated four times! Did Kate make it five?

I said Ally becuase she said she "doesn't want to get left behind again" and that seemed pretty believable to me.

Definetely a spy. I didn't think so after the first viewing, but now I can't see it any other way. And I had such hope for Juliet playing nice...

I'm undecided until next week. Her first flashback made me feel bad for her. Elizabeth Mitchell said in TV Guide that her next flashback is twisty and turny. which means it's going to be good. We will see a new side of Juliet.

I voted for Spy, although I probably should have voted undecided. I believe there's still a chance that she might be helping Jack. I definitely wouldn't trust her until I knew for sure though.

Probably a plant. But - the Others did brand her which seemed to be pretty significant, at least to them. So right now, I'd rank her as someone who needs to be watched very carefully.

i posted in another thread much like this one
on whether blondie is a spy or ally.

i still think it's too early to tell.

and did you notice that dr. j and blondie
are walking together ahead of sayid and kate-the-flake?
[ i am not kate fan ]

so are we seeing dr. j. and blondie forming an alliance?

and i wonder what their conversations will be about.
hmmm and double hmmm!

I'm thinking she's a spy. She played all meek and timid in her flashback but now on island, she shoots people in the chest and can flip other people over their heads. I don't trust her.

And Sayid doesn't trust her - he's pretty good with these short of things.

I'd say plant for sure.

Why wouldn't Ben have killed Juliette if they didn't want her around anymore? Why risk having her tell the losties the secrets of the others and the island?

I'd assume that Ben's plan was to have Juliette live among the losties, win their trust, and then persuade one if not more of them to do something.

She is a fertility doctor, so perhaps Aaron will be coming back into the story, perhaps she is there for him?

she's pretty good at faking both.
it's hard to tell at this point.

but i will say this; she learned a lot from Ben.

Yes, yes, and yes. You stated it well.

I had to choose "undecided until we know more."
(But she's probably been sent to be a long-term mole. That's what the Others do, after all. But I wouldn't mind being wrong on this one.)

Oh No!!!!!

This is going to turn out just like to Sub threads.:)

The Theme was BANISHMENT. Sawyer/Juilet

Obviously Juilet was "marked for Banishment". Now that the sub is gone(which would have served the banishment purpose--off the island for good) ---they carried it out this way instead because they had no choice.

Almost every con Lost has had(99% of them) were resolved in that very episode. For example in this one --Hurley cons sawyer---Juliet cons kate with the handcuffs. Im afraid this is going to be another case of "I dont believe anything I see"

The plane didnt really crash, Libbys not dead, Locke could always walk, Desmond didnt time travel, the sub didnt blow up. Its not healthy:) Its fun though..I know guys

But you have to be balanced and consider the themes

There is not one single reason to have Juilet be a plant. For what?--to spy on how they cook fish? The story is heading toward explaining Juliets coercion(shoulder being dislocated 4 times) by the others. Their deception in basicaly kidnapping her to the island and killing her husband

She wanted Ben dead, she killed pickett, and now she is going to use her talents to help the Losties against the Others. It doesnt make any sense to take everything they show you and believe the exact opposite just to prevent yourselves from being fooled

great episode though..loved it

I think she did deviate from the others- she killed one of them, after all- BUT she also knows they are her only way off the island. So maybe she made a deal to be a spy and get back into their good graces.

I'm undecided at the moment I am going to take a wait and see approach on Juilet because I really want her to spill her guts to Sayid or at least give us a little taste of what she knows.

She just makes herself seem suspicious. Like I really thought she was faking that handcuffed together thing.. yeah right. She's going to try to get info. from our Losties!

Obviously the survivors will never trust Juliet. Juliet knows this... Ben knows this. Ben LOVES mind games. It doesn't matter if the survivors know Juliet is a plant or not, I think Ben just wants to get Juliet in close to them, by any means necessary. This way more mind games can be played... to what end, I have no idea.

Did you all see the litte smirk that Juliet gave as Kate was walking away after the Monster vs. Fence scene, and Juliet supposedly came clean? Either she was pleased with Kate's reaction, or she was checking Kate out as she walked away...

"They left me behind too... they gassed me. I know that you don't care but the people I spent the last 3 years of my life with... they just left me! I thought that maybe... maybe if I could make you think that we were in it together... maybe I wouldn't get left behind again."

Nice lines Juliet... no one believes you. But it's ok because everything is going as planned. How did Juliet know that Jack and Sayid were still in the village and were not left in the woods like she and Kate? Her whole story about being gassed and left behind is bogus. There would be no reason to take Juliet and Kate out in the woods, and leave Jack and Sayid in the village.

This episode was nuts... I can't make sense of the Others actions at all.

when she told Kate she did what she did so that Kate would feel like they were "in it together" I realized that Juliet had manipulated Jack in the same way. Jack fought for her and was determined that BOTH of them should get to go home. She's gooood. Ben taught her well.

Lost other.

SPY :dsguise2: SPY :dsguise2: SPY :dsguise2: SPY :dsguise2: SPY :dsguise2: SPY :dsguise2: SPY :dsguise2: SPY :dsguise2: SPY :dsguise2: SPY :dsguise2: SPY :dsguise2: SPY :dsguise2: SPY :dsguise2: SPY

Almost every con Lost has had(99% of them) were resolved in that very episode. For example in this one --Hurley cons sawyer---Juliet cons kate with the handcuffs. Im afraid this is going to be another case of "I dont believe anything I see"



Ben's cons last for several eisodes though. "Henry Gale". "I never pushed the button".

BEN: We did all this because the only way to gain a con man's respect is to con him. And you're pretty good, Sawyer. We're a lot better. Funny thing is, us telling you about the pacemaker wasn't what kept you in line. It was when I threatened her. You work so hard to make her think you don't care -- that you don't need her, but, "A guy goes nuts if he ain't got nobody. It don't make no difference who the guy is, long as he's with you. I tell you, I tell you a guy gets too lonely and he gets sick."

SAWYER: What the hell are you talking about?

BEN: It's from Of Mice and Men. Don't you read? Come on, let's get you back to your cage.

Spy. I'm not buying the whole "I'm handcuffed to you for no reason."

I think that she is a plant!

I do not think she is a plant. It is too obvious of a conclusion and if we have learned anything yet, its that not everything is as it appears. Juliette was marked, she wanted Ben dead, Ben knows this, she also has feelings for Jack, and Ben had to get rid of her without killing her as he promised Jack he wouldn't do.

Smokey took recon pictures of Juliette and probably scanned her memory as well to use against her.

Or is it. Maybe it's exactly what we think. Maybe that whole marked/trial thing was an act. Or maybe she has to do something to be redeemed for her sins. Just like Michael had to do something to get his son back. He killed two of his own people, everything has a price, I'm wondering what's Juliets.... Maybe get Aaron and we'll forgive you.

They are all very possible ideas and I actually can't pick one. Juliet is a character that I absolutely can't read. I like her character. She makes me think but I can't decide what her motivations are.

I'm not a shipper, but I'm feeling corny...

Maybe she asked to be left behind with Jack?

It's just seems too obvious for Juliet to be a spy, everything in this episodes pointed in that direction and it doesn't seem like Lost thing to do to continue along this line of thinking without some sort of twist.

I'm undecided at present. However I would find it plausible that the Others have offered her forgiveness if she achieves some goal at the camp. I just can't figure out what that might be unless it related to Aaron, since we know the Others wanted to take him from Claire. On the other hand, I do think Juliet is developing real feelings for Jack. Which may cause some internal conflict down the road if she is a plant. So that would be a good way to grey up the situation. That she IS playing a game of earning trust, but at the same time, she does want Jack and company to trust and accept her.

Spy. She's just holding too much back. Like with the handcuff keys (I mean, who would want to run through the jungle handcuffed to somebody else, with the explanation they didn't want to be left behind again? She made that well-thought out decision directly after waking up disoriented in the jungle? Come on!) Do I believe her not knowing what smokey is? Three years on the island, and not exclusively in Othersville, and she doesn't know? Hasn't heard about it?
The way she's playing Kate and Jack? Not the best way to introduce herself into the survivor community if she's really abandoned by her friends.
But Jack is on her side for now, and as he is still pretty p***ed at Kate, it's an easy and clever way to play her to stay in his good graces.
Good think Sayid and Sawyer probably won't be trusting her all that easily. I just can't see that happening :biggrin:

Plant. And Jack's her--and Ben's--pawn.

I reckon she's genuine. Sayid is the spy and has been all along.

Definitely a plant...the Long Con continues....

Honestly, people! Did NONE of you pay ANY attention to last week's episode?

You wanna know whether Juliet's a plant or a spy? Simple:

Paralyze her with spider venom.
Dig a hole in the ground.
Dump her in the hole.
Cover her up.

Then you just wait. If she sprouts, blooms and flourishes, it's obvious she's a plant!

And if she doesn't... well, she got just what a spy deserves, that's the way I sees it!

- mnw

she is a spy, remember that Ms. Klugh and the russian were both pleased to be milled as opposed to being captured.

spy or ally?
but i'll will say this; she learned a lot from ben.

That's it. She's learned from Ben too well. She doesn't know how to be straight with her new found friends. So in an attempt to be on their side she tries to trick them to be on their side and it backfires.

Plant!! I've never trusted her, and I just can't believe that Ben isn't using her to control Jack. We know he likes to exploit the things that people care about, and Jack has come to care a lot for Juliette I think.

I'm not sure yet, but, in case she was a spy, what could she be possible spying on? Apparently they know everything about the Losties. Do they need more lists?

Remember when Benry was introduced last season in ... "One of Them"

Now, Juliet's episode is "One of Us". Should be a clue.

I think she's a spy, though.
100%
I'm not sure yet, but, in case she was a spy, what could she be possible spying on? Apparently they know everything about the Losties. Do they need more lists?

Not an intelligence spy. She's possibly infiltrated to get Aaron.

Remember when Benry was introduced last season in ... "One of Them"
Now, Juliet's episode is "One of Us". Should be a clue.

I think she's a spy, though.
100%


Not an intelligence spy. She's possibly infiltrated to get Aaron.

I thought about that. But why don't they just go and get him, again?

I say plant. Remember when Walt was being dragged away from Michael and he shouted back "They're pretending!" Don't believe them, they're pretending. History has shown us that their usual M.O. is to go through elaborate theatrics to manipulate the LOSTaways. From the costumes to the faux primative village, to what we learned just last week in the Nikki/Paulo episode was Ben's very elaborate plan all to get Jack to perform surgery on him, yet it involved kidnapping Kate, Jack, Sawyer and Hurley, staging a whole rock-breaking work project, etc.

If I were a betting woman, I'd have to say that this whole thing, from the Others fleeing their village to Juliet and Kate being handcuffed together is all a part of their plan to get the LOSTaways to accept Juliet into their midst as some sort of rejected Other with a heart of gold, when all the while she is a PLANT.

Good thread.

If she is a spy, doesn't seem strange of the writers to have one of her lies exposed this early, and thus casting even more doubt over her character and intentions?

As much as I hate Juliet, I really don't she'll turn out to be a spy. At least not a willful one.

I believe not only that she is a plant, but the one who knocked Kate out...not by the gas but by the sandwich. The gas was fake...when it rolled out it said technicolor on the side I am pretty sure which I think means it was just a sort of spray paint or something. The gas was for effect to make kate think everyone who was exposed to the gas was knocked out...and not letting her know it was the sandwich which would have immediatly put her onto Juliets scheme.

Probably Jack and Sayid ate a sandwich too.


The sandwich that sat for awhile and she only took one bite out of the bread? thats some pretty strong knock out drug!

Once again I will say you cannot trust these people. She is there for a reason. Why did she have a key if she was unconscious when they were handcuffed together? Why would one of the others handcuff them together and then give juliet a key, what would be the purpose? Juliet handcuffed herself to Kate, that's my thought anyway.
I think she wanted Kate to believe that she was left behind just like her, like she was explaining to Kate. What she didn't explain was why, which is because she's a spy for the others!! She lied to kate about knowing what the "monster" was. She can't be trusted. I don't really love Jack, but if I'm right and she is spying for the others he will be heartbroken.

I'm not sure yet, but, in case she was a spy, what could she be possible spying on? Apparently they know everything about the Losties. Do they need more lists?

Good point. I do think she's a plant of sorts, but likely not just there to gather information. I'll bet she has a specific plan of action, although I couldn't guess what at this point. No doubt she will continue to manipulate Jack and possibly even Kate.

I think Sayid will see right through her though... and I'm betting there will be some conflict between Sayid and Jack on this issue.

Juliette is going to turn out to be one of the "good" guys IMO. Remember, Ben manipulated people, and we have no idea what he threatened her with.
Well, I'm about to contradict myself *lol*, because you do have a good point. In Juliet's flashbacks, we learned that she was definitely manipulated into being on that island in the first place. They scared her to death when she realized they were powerful and ruthless enough to make things like someone getting hit by a bus happen. And they kind of threatened her sister in a veiled way, too, if she didn't join them and become a researcher for them.

However, that said, imho, she has proved herself very ruthless thus far and that fact, combined with the Others' propensity for elaborate staging and faux situations makes me still think: PLANT! For all we know, when Juliet showed the flashcards to Jack indicating that she wanted to rebel against Ben, that could have been staged, too. I just always come back to little Walt and "They're pretending!"

btw, I think Walt and Michael are still captive somewhere on the island. But I digress. I guess my point is, while you do make a great point and there is at least the possibility that Juliet could turn out to be one of the good guys (I think she started out that way before they initially coerced her into coming to the island and joining them, but I feel certain that since then she has become a hardened member of the Others), I think the probability is that this is all staged and she is a plant/spy/whatever. They're pretending.

I'm going to have to go with everyone that says she is a spy. She knew about Smokey, but played dumb to it at first when she knew full well that is existed and that the fence kept it at bay. Plus, she had the key to the handcuffs the whole time.

Just a guess, but I think the Others lost their ability to spy on the Losties and now need someone inside like they had before with Ethan. Just an idea though. What would her objective be on what would she report is something I have to put more thought to.

Spy. She's just holding too much back. Like with the handcuff keys (I mean, who would want to run through the jungle handcuffed to somebody else, with the explanation they didn't want to be left behind again? She made that well-thought out decision directly after waking up disoriented in the jungle? Come on!) Do I believe her not knowing what smokey is? Three years on the island, and not exclusively in Othersville, and she doesn't know? Hasn't heard about it?
The way she's playing Kate and Jack? Not the best way to introduce herself into the survivor community if she's really abandoned by her friends.
But Jack is on her side for now, and as he is still pretty p***ed at Kate, it's an easy and clever way to play her to stay in his good graces.
Good think Sayid and Sawyer probably won't be trusting her all that easily. I just can't see that happening :biggrin:

I agree. The whole thing is a setup to get her sympathy. But then... wouldn't Kate KNOW that Juliet is playing her after the handcuffs? I mean, after Juliet revealed the key wouldn't it be obvious to Kate that Juliet handcuffed herself to Kate and pretended to be unconscious, so they could have this little trek through the jungle? But if the intent is just to gain Juliet sympathy, they could have left her and Kate in the village, not in the middle of the woods. Either Juliet needed to get the monster to do something (what were those flashes???) or she knew that their time handcuffed together would allow them to bond...

Good thread.

If she is a spy, doesn't seem strange of the writers to have one of her lies exposed this early, and thus casting even more doubt over her character and intentions?

As much as I hate Juliet, I really don't she'll turn out to be a spy. At least not a willful one.

Ah, but their intentions to get you to think she is not a spy are fulfilled ;) .

So, we know from the beginning of the episode that John is being 'taken' somewhere with the Others. In his farewell conversation with Kate, he states that the Others told him what she 'did'. However, no one knows her motivations for those those past actions, which is the core of her flashback.

Later in the episode, Juliette gives Kate a laundry list of things she knows about Jack. If you notice, these are things that can be contained in public records. We can infer from this that what the Others know about Kate must be from public records. What they don't know are her motivations for the crimes she committed.

Since John told the Others that Kate is a "good person", perhaps this is a ruse to understand exactly the reasons behind "What Kate Did". As viewers, we don't have information about the Others save what we've learned from flashbacks. So Ben's motivations for gathering a group of 'good people' are not clear to us. They've taken John with them, Ben has told John that he is a 'good person'. Ben could very well have placed Juliette with Kate to determine once and for all if she is truly 'good'.

I voted to "wait and see", but actually I believe there is another angle to Juliet that wasn't mentioned as a voting option. Juliet is her own person, and I do not believe she is either a pawn for Ben or a love slave to Jack. Rather, I think that she is making an attempt at gaining control over the Island's human population - both among the Others and the Survivors - and right now that involves sidling up with Jack and trying to get in tight with some of the people on the beach. She already has some allies within the Others, and now needs to make allies within the Survivor community other than just Jack. Whoever can get to a position of influence within BOTH groups will ultimately be calling the shots by the end of the show...

Spy. At this point, I assume every new character is a spy.

I think she not only is a plant - but she has been in on Ben's "mind games" from the beginning. I am now thinking that even the whole - I want to kill Ben video tape to Jack was a total set up to get Jack to trust her. I think Ben was in on that too.

And I think the Jury meeting or whatever it was to decide whether to Kill her was a total set-up as well to make Jack think he saved her....

The key reference, I believe... is the line about "mind games". Every move - even the submarine getting blown up is pure manipulation on the part of Juliette and Ben.

Mind games or a Long Con - whatever you call it, Juliette is one of the masterminds of it.

The interesting choice from a writing perspective (I agree that it would be obvious that she's a spy and tough to swallow if she isn't) is for her to freely admit she was asked to spy but say she wants to join them and has no loyalty to Ben/The Others anymore. They lied to her from the beginning and she hates Ben. At least that's what she could say, and then we'd all be wondering AGAIN is this another feint or is she genuine!!??

Once again I will say you cannot trust these people. She is there for a reason. Why did she have a key if she was unconscious when they were handcuffed together? Why would one of the others handcuff them together and then give juliet a key, what would be the purpose? Juliet handcuffed herself to Kate, that's my thought anyway.
I think she wanted Kate to believe that she was left behind just like her, like she was explaining to Kate. What she didn't explain was why, which is because she's a spy for the others!! She lied to kate about knowing what the "monster" was. She can't be trusted. I don't really love Jack, but if I'm right and she is spying for the others he will be heartbroken.

The whole thing with the handcuffs doesn't make sense. Are we to believe that, since Juliet says that she was gassed to, that she woke up before Kate and handcuffed herself to her, and then pretended to be unconsious?? She just happend to have a pair of handcuffs on her???? I'm not buying it.

100% plant.

When Kate looks out the window there is a blonde woman in a light blue shirt putting on a gas mask. Someone else pointed this out.

Another reveil for me was when John purposely came in and told her that he "put in a good word for her...that she was a good person, trustworthy,etc..." but that THEY weren't very forgiving. Juliet was never unconscious...it was a test for Kate to see where HER loyalties lay.

Also...

With the loss of Ethan...and the loss of the submarine. There is no way in hell that they would 'leave behind' another Doctor when they have no way to replace them.

It's what they do...remember...Alex said it..." Make the person think it's their own idea."

I think all things in this episode indicated that juliet knows more than she is letting on. She is a plant, she may not even have been drugged when they brought her out to the woods with kate.

she will be a mole in the Losties camp, and now that Jack trusts her and feels he needs to defend her against criticism from his buddies, he won't listen to their suspicions.

plus, heightened kate-jack-juliet tensions. brilliant!

I'm beginning to think Juliet is the ultimate spy.

I totally agree!!! The losties should look at the evidence. Why would the Others cuff her to Kate, but not check her to make sure she didn't have a key? Also Juliet stated that Ben is a fan of mind games. DON'T TRUST JULIET!!!

we don't know if locke really knows what kate did. he could just be saying that to get to where the Others are going. we know how locke works.

I voted spy, but I truly think that Juliet has some deep agenda of her own. In my opinion her real loyalty/priority is something other than forwarding the Other's plans and she has no real animosity toward the Losties, but wouldn't hesitate to sacrifice them and their well being if necessary to achieve her goal(S)... we just don't know what that is yet. I suspect it may have something to do with her sister if she's still living...
squid

Juliet must know more about Smokey than she's letting on. She's obvoiusly not afraid of it. If she was she would have made a b-line for the fence instead of the "what is that?" routine.

After what Sayid said (Shes not coming with us), I am even more suspicious about her.

So, I voted spy

I voted undecided for the simple reason that I want Sayid to get information from her. In his loveable yet non U.N. approved way.

But, homegirl is e-v-i-l :evil1:

I voted spy, but I truly think that Juliet has some deep agenda of her own. In my opinion her real loyalty/priority is something other than forwarding the Other's plans and she has no real animosity toward the Losties, but wouldn't hesitate to sacrifice them and their well being if necessary to achieve her goal(S)... we just don't know what that is yet. I suspect it may have something to do with her sister if she's still living...
squid

I tend to agree with most of what you said. I think that Juliet definitely has her own agenda, which she is not sharing with ANYONE, including Ben and Jack. Most especially with Ben and Jack. She is trying to use both of them to accomplish her own ends. However, that said, I do disagree with you about her just tossing people away if it meets her needs, because I actually think that Juliet's agenda is probably a good one for most of the people currently on the Island. I think she is trying to accomplish a control over both the Others and the Survivors, and the ultimate end of this will be a benevolent dictatorship, just like it is under Ben and the Others, but with a feminine touch.

The two important facts:

1. Juliet was cuffed to Kate
2. Juliet had a key to the cuffs

Whoever cuffed Juliet to Kate wanted to make sure that Juliet went where Kate went. More specifically, they wanted to make sure Juliet got to the Losties' camp, whether Kate liked it or not.
Then, knowing Juliet had a key and didn't use it immediately, she clearly knew about the situation, as opposed to being completely in the dark.
She only un-cuffs herself because of the apparent danger of the smoke monster. So if the smoke monster never showed up, she would have just stayed cuffed to Kate until getting back to the Losties' camp.
Basically what I'm saying is, she was left behind AS a plant and meant to be taken back to the Losties' camp.

Plant

Sayid's always right.

The two important facts:

1. Juliet was cuffed to Kate
2. Juliet had a key to the cuffs

Whoever cuffed Juliet to Kate wanted to make sure that Juliet went where Kate went. More specifically, they wanted to make sure Juliet got to the Losties' camp, whether Kate liked it or not.

Juliet cuffed herself to Kate because she "didn't want to get left behind again". The Others left her, and when she awoke and realized that, she cuffed herself to Kate so she wouldn't go running off into the jungle without her.

And why would they need her at the Losties camp so badly? I mean, they know enough about them to figure out what they will do. What is so important that they go there all of a sudden? Ethan went because he was the one that was supposed to see if their good or not. But now that he's gone and dead, and they kidnapped everyone they wanted, why would she need to go back?

No, she's definately an Ally.

The Others can't forgive, Locke even said that. She killed Danny, tried to kill Ben, is in love with a captive (Jack, isn't it obvious? :rolleyes: ), and since Ben couldn't keep his promise to her (of getting her and Jack off the island), he let her go.

She wants to go home. I don't understand why she'd suddenly do something so elaberate all of the sudden when they aren't giving her what she wants.

1. She lied about the cuffs
2. She lied about Smokey

"It's like they disappeared into thin air." - Sayid

She didn't appear to offer any explanation to this, but we'll get confirmation next week. If she offers an explanation to the Others vanashing act, she might be trusted. But I doubt she will, which is why I voted....SPY!

She is in the dark about them leaving as the rest of them are. She doesn't know where they are, or where they are going. I know the general consensus is that she's lying, but I can't help but trust her.

More or less undecided, but it's stupid of others to assume that the losties are going to trust her KNOWING that she's in fact an other. And from the looks of it - it's not like there's anything the others don't know about them anyway - maybe bar their current activities, but that hardly seems to be something interesting unless the losties will be planning something big.

Juliet is legit! I love her character and her story. It's about time people understood that not all of the Others are bad guys. Juliet is every bit as much a victim as Jack and the Losties, and I think it's great that she's joining them. She will have to earn their trust but in the long run it will be great for everyone to have her on board.

She is in the dark about them leaving as the rest of them are. She doesn't know where they are, or where they are going. I know the general consensus is that she's lying, but I can't help but trust her.

Juliet has lived with the others for 3 years... how would she NOT know where they went? I would like to think that once you are an Other, you get the inside scoop on how to disappear into the jungle and the locations of your hideouts...

Of course I am speculating. But for all I know, only a few key players (Ben, the mean "sherriff" lady, Jacob(?)) are privy to this information, and it is handed out on a need-to-know basis.

I agree. The whole thing is a setup to get her sympathy. But then... wouldn't Kate KNOW that Juliet is playing her after the handcuffs? I mean, after Juliet revealed the key wouldn't it be obvious to Kate that Juliet handcuffed herself to Kate and pretended to be unconscious, so they could have this little trek through the jungle? But if the intent is just to gain Juliet sympathy, they could have left her and Kate in the village, not in the middle of the woods. Either Juliet needed to get the monster to do something (what were those flashes???) or she knew that their time handcuffed together would allow them to bond...
Ah, but I don't think that matters really (for Juliet) right now. I'm sure she was awake in the woods before Kate woke up, thusly her quick reaction when Kate held the knife. Probably she handcuffed herself to Kate. But not for any bonding experience. What she did during the trek back to Othersville was nothing but to play Kate. I can't say whether the encounter with smokey was part of the plan or not, but everything else on their travel back solely served the purpose to rub Kate's raw emotions about Jack in. More so, when they arrived in Othersville, while Juliet let Kate go to get Jack, it was pretty obvious that Jack was still hurt and angry about seeing her with Sawyer. I think all Juliet did was rub in that she knows more about Jack than Kate (though she only rattles off facts from his file), that she has earned Jack's trust while Kate is just about to lose it by how she has hurt him, and basically that Kate can't do anything against Jack's decision to take her back to the beach.
I think that they were not left in Othersville but in the jungle solely served the purpose of further isolating Jack from Kate. And Ben is behind it. "I find out what people have emotionally invested in, and then I exploit it." That's what he said. And I think that's what he ordered Juliet to do with Jack (and Kate), whether she's willingly on it or whether Ben has pressured her to do it somehow.

Juliet cuffed herself to Kate because she "didn't want to get left behind again". The Others left her, and when she awoke and realized that, she cuffed herself to Kate so she wouldn't go running off into the jungle without her.

This doesn't make any sense. Juliet just happened to have a set of handcuffs on her? Yeah right. I know Paulo kept the diamonds in his underwear but I think a set of handcuffs would be a little uncomfortable!! (sorry I couldn't help myself;) )

Juliet is legit! I love her character and her story. It's about time people understood that not all of the Others are bad guys. Juliet is every bit as much a victim as Jack and the Losties, and I think it's great that she's joining them. She will have to earn their trust but in the long run it will be great for everyone to have her on board.

I really really like Juliet as a character. She's my favorite female character for sure, and not just because she's real hot covered in mud:grin: But I have to disagree about her motives. Because of the handcuff stuff I mentioned above, she must have been working with The Others still when she and Kate went into the jungle. Assuming she wan't gassed, she must have noticed everyone packing up and leaving. So why would she agree to help Ben with Kate if she knew that she was being abandoned??

None of it makes sense. IMO she's probably a spy but it's too hard to say for sure. But, I bet we find out next week!!

Good thread.

If she is a spy, doesn't seem strange of the writers to have one of her lies exposed this early, and thus casting even more doubt over her character and intentions?

As much as I hate Juliet, I really don't she'll turn out to be a spy. At least not a willful one.

I have to agree even when Ben was Henry Gale, it wasn't so screamingly obvious he was an other. I think it was probably 50/50 in poster's opinions. In this episode, everything points to Juliet being a spy, which is too much, if she really is a plant. I think they made her look suspicious to increase the tension between the Losties on there trek back.


Ah, but their intentions to get you to think she is not a spy are fulfilled ;) .

Actually I would say that TPTB are trying to get everyone to think she is a spy. And judging from the poll it's working ;)

Juliet must know more about Smokey than she's letting on. She's obvoiusly not afraid of it. If she was she would have made a b-line for the fence instead of the "what is that?" routine.

This is the one thing I thought was really odd, she took up a lot of time acting confused and disoriented, and Smokey could have snuck up on them at any time.

Plant

Sayid's always right.

Hard to argue this one, though has Sayid really had a chance to read Juliet yet, I'm not so sure. I think at this time it's more of a general suspicion of any other coming along with them, rather then Sayid forming an opinion about Juliet.

This doesn't make any sense. Juliet just happened to have a set of handcuffs on her? Yeah right. I know Paulo kept the diamonds in his underwear but I think a set of handcuffs would be a little uncomfortable!! (sorry I couldn't help myself;) )

I think there are a few scenario that would explain Juliet's story and make her innocent.

1.She woke up in the jungle and saw Kate lying there with her handcuffs on. Juliet ran back to the village got the keys and then handcuffed herself to Kate.

2. She woke up in her house ran outside to access the situation and found the tracks in the jungle that led to Kate, she then went and got the key for the cuffs and cuffed herself.

3. Since Juliet is a high ranking other, she always has a pair of handcuff keys on her and the others forgot to take it away

4. Ben slipped the keys into her pocket to make Juliet look suspicious.

I honestly don't know if she's a spy or not, but I have to say this is a great storyline and I'm really dying to see what happens next!

This doesn't make any sense. Juliet just happened to have a set of handcuffs on her? Yeah right. I know Paulo kept the diamonds in his underwear but I think a set of handcuffs would be a little uncomfortable!! (sorry I couldn't help myself;) )

LOL. Well, she's a hardcore woman. Maybe with all the non-Others running around their camp (Locke, Sayid, Kate, Jack) she decided it was about time to carry around something that will subdue her opponent if she ever found herself in such an altercation. :biggrin:

This doesn't make any sense. Juliet just happened to have a set of handcuffs on her? Yeah right. I know Paulo kept the diamonds in his underwear but I think a set of handcuffs would be a little uncomfortable!! (sorry I couldn't help myself;) )

ROFL!!!!!!!!!!!!

I think what's great about this plot line is that we don't know anything.

We don't know if Juliet is good or bad or if she's a spy or an innocent pawn. Right now, it can go either way.

We also don't know if Jack trusts her. Just because he's taking her with them doesn't imply trust. Jack has proven he can be manipulative and deceitful just like Ben. Jack may have an agenda of his own with Juliet.

Sayid is going to be naturally suspicious, not just because she's an other but also because of his experience with Mikahail.

Kate and Sawyer are NEVER going to like Juliet. Period. Their reasons are obvious.

As for the rest of the Losties, they don't really have a reason to dislike Juliet outright. They can't really connect her directly with a bad incident to any one of them, personally. Not the same way that Jack, Kate, Sawyer and Sayid can put her. Although, Claire might be able to if Juliet had anything to do with her abduction.

Right now, we don't know anything for sure. It's all speculation and breadcrumbs falling, and we have no idea where it's leading.

Lost is Lost? Hardly.

Bring out some reeds from the Euphrates!

Actually Sirs, if ull permit, i say she is NOT a plant, but in fact a lost other...

Ben gassed her and chucked her in with Kate DEEP into monster territory,
because Ben was blackmailed into letting her live.
And that makes him look weak, and as we know, he doesn't like that.

SHE handcuffs HERSELF to Kate, and this is the part that actually makes me think she is NOT a spy.

Because after three YEARS of mindgames and always guessing the angle, Juliet has basically forgotten what it was like to interact as a normal human being.
She wakes up first and realizes what is going on, and handcuffs herself to Kate in a desperate attempt at being accepted by these new and scary group of people she KNOWS has every right to hate her guts.

This is the act of a single mind, not a conspiracy.
A single mind who has been SO afraid in her life, and still managed to raise herself up and promised that she would never be afraid again, its written all over her face.
So when this scary change of events takes place, she wants to take control of the situation.
She wants to SCAM Kate into liking her, force them into accepting her, because its the only thing she knows how to do.

Its sad really, but it shows us the depth of the Juliet character.


The next episode will tell us, till then i stick by my vote Sirs, NOT GUILTY!


-Exodus

Good theory Exodus - I like Juliets character so I hope you are right -

You make some very valid points there Exodus. Besides it would be lame for yet another "other" plant.:15:

Go Exodus!!! That is a great post. I completely agree with you 1000%. (Yes, I meant to type 1000). :biggrin:

Well hell Exodus... I rather like that theory myself. I just dont know if she would be willing to leave so easily...Although there have been clues to that ( like the getting irritated right before they see the plane crashing) she might be uncomfortable with no way out.

I like her character..I just don't TRUST her character. ;)

i think that she was unknowingly infected with the "sickness"

Ben knew the losties would take her in even if they were suspicious. They may just want to torture her and get info.

But now they will all get teh sick...................claire is supposed to come down with a mysterious illness soon. how convenient that it happens right after juliet shows up.

Juliet almost had her WISH to GO BACK HOME she DIDNT want to be there why on Earth would she play spy for BEN, she was LEAVING with JACK

Believe she's a spy.

A thought...

What if the 'sickness' isn't really a sickness in the physical sense? What if the sickness is actually a person not wanting to be 'part' of the island anymore?

A bit like people involved in a cult...would think the outsiders 'bad' or 'sick'...as well as, someone wanting out of the group.

It also keeps reminding me more and more of that old Twilight Zone epi in which a girl keeps having surgery after surgery, to make her look 'normal'....when in reality SHE is the pretty one and everyone around her is hidious. I think the epi is called 'Eye of the Beholder'.

I watched "Left Behind" again, but with the supposition that both Juliet and Jack were not gassed, that they were in on this elaborate ruse to appear they've been left behind. It seemed too coincidental that Juliet would wake up the second Kate opened the pocket knife, so I don't think she was gassed. She reminded me of how a shark plays dead for hours, but can still jump you at any time..

Flashbacks usually parallel the main story and theme. The flashback was about two cons working together towards a common goal... Two women. So we assume that the parallel on the island is the two women working together: Kate and Juliet. ("two cons" for those that don't trust Juliet)

However, I think the two people - the two cons - working together are Juliet and Jack. I think Jack was also laying in wait for Kate or Sayid to discover him sleeping. He asks if they left Juliet behind not to find out if the Others did that - he knows they left her behind.. He wants to find out if she survived her stint being handcuffed to Kate.

I believe at this point that both Jack and Juliet should not be trusted.

I just listened to the Lost podcast, and they talk about Juliet being left behind.

They said that maybe (it's always maybe) Juliet pissed Ben off. And that we will probably find out why in the next episode. It's a Juliet episode. She sounds innocent to me.

I think shes a mole but i voted option 3.i just did so because i d like to see Sayid torture that person so desperately,it hurts.i even have weird dreams about it.let Sayid near the blondie.please.pretty please.

She was obviously outcast from the Others for killing, which would imply Lost other..... but that could have been an act in itself (her outcast, not the murder)

The notion that she's a plant is absurd. It's so obvious that somebody as Machiavellian as Ben wouldn't be so unoriginal.

My theory is that the whole thing-- Jack being kept separate from Kate and Sawyer,
Kate being manipulated into sleeping with Sawyer, and Jack being shown this little
interlude-- was done so that Jack would feel betrayed by Kate.

THUS- he opened up to Juliet, which allows her to accompany him back to Lostie Beach.

We've seen it since the Pilot- if Jack approves of someone, everyone approves of that
someone. It looked to me like Ana Lucia was being accepted into the group at the time of her death. Jack liked her and trusted her. So she was okay.

Juliet has done her job well. No matter what Kate tells him, he will not believe evil of
Juliet! I can see it now:
KATE: "Jack, she handcuffed herself to me! She is a MOLE!"
JACK: "Kate, you don't know her. She wanted Ben to die. She's not an Other."

in other words, MOLEY MOLE MOLE MOLE MOLE (to paraphrase Dr. Evil)

My theory is that the whole thing-- Jack being kept separate from Kate and Sawyer,
Kate being manipulated into sleeping with Sawyer, and Jack being shown this little
interlude-- was done so that Jack would feel betrayed by Kate.

THUS- he opened up to Juliet, which allows her to accompany him back to Lostie Beach.

We've seen it since the Pilot- if Jack approves of someone, everyone approves of that
someone. It looked to me like Ana Lucia was being accepted into the group at the time of her death. Jack liked her and trusted her. So she was okay.

Juliet has done her job well. No matter what Kate tells him, he will not believe evil of
Juliet! I can see it now:
KATE: "Jack, she handcuffed herself to me! She is a MOLE!"
JACK: "Kate, you don't know her. She wanted Ben to die. She's not an Other."

in other words, MOLEY MOLE MOLE MOLE MOLE (to paraphrase Dr. Evil)
Totally agreed.it only makes sense!

I said SPY! One thing on this island that we've learned is NOT TO TRUST THE OTHERS!!:mad:

She's definitely a spy. And for those who are thinkig Jack is too on he basis that he woke up so late, remember that Sayid did as well. Is he a mole too? C'mon!
But Juliet is obviously a plant. I would actually be disappointed if she wasn't, almost shocked at this point (but not in a good way.) They've set it up so clearly, especially now that she lied to Kate about Smokey as well as the handcuff key. As lockeisthekey (and Dr. Evil) said: Moley moley moley mole!

The more I think about it, the more I'm convinced that Juliet is a plant.

Can you seriously imagine Ben allowing someone with a serious grudge against him to go back to the Lostie camp? With what she could tell them? Someone who was so desperate to leave the island that she tried to kill Ben and actually killed Pickett, and who's been thwarted again in her attempt to leave? Could you imagine her having any loyalty to the Others whatsoever?
The Others have gone out of their way to keep their motives secret from the Losties. To let Juliet go like that would just be plain stupid.

Far better to organise an elaborate deception that from day one has enabled her to appear to be the outcast, and get her in a position to gain Jack's trust.

After what happened to Goodwin, Ethan and Ben, they know that it's not enough to just turn up at beachcamp and hope that you're accepted. To really be accepted you need someone fighting your corner, and who better than someone with as much influence as Jack? After all, Jack's been taken in by Juliet all along, so when it comes time to vouch for her he'll be absolutely convincing.

What are Lost podcasts?


I think she is a spy - or mole BUT at the same time I can't help but think that is so obvious and Lost usually doesn't always go for most obvious -

Although I thought I would see John's dad behind the door when he first heard MFT in the closet - and many other people thought the same thing -
BUT this one seems to obvious -
Working with Jack seems to be the only way to make it less obvious - what if she is working with Danielle ????

What are Lost podcasts?

The Lost podcasts is like a mini interview online featuring Damon Lindleoff and Carlton Cuse that can be found at the Lost website (HERE (http://abc.go.com/primetime/lost/podcast)).

Definitely a Spy. Everyone else that got thrown a bomb thing passed out and stayed there till they woke up. Why would just Kate and Juliet end up in the jungle? and hand cuffed together no less? Makes no sense. Juliet is a spy.