Just trying to understand the timeline of the episode.... I thought Juliet and Kate were out in the jungle a long time. Enough time to fight, run from smokey twice, even sleep in the banyan trees. And then they get to Otherville and Jack is still unconscious? Did that make sense? Usually I don't care about little mistakes, but that was quite noticeable to me.

I agree.
It seemed to me that there may have been more than one bottle of gas in his house, though? Will need screencaps of when they show Kate looking at the mess in his home, because, yes, I agree that it was really weird.

I think it was a setup - why leave him behind IN the house and throw Kate and Juliet out in the woods -
to force Kate to accept Juliet - no other way she would ever agree to let Juliet come back - and to make it seem that Jack too was left behind -

One big set up if you ask me!

Sayid was left behind as well. Perhaps being in the fresh air made the ladies come to faster than Jack and Sayid being in a confined space where the gas lingered.

I dont think it was that long. As soon as they woke up Kate wanted to go.. Juliet said she wanted to stay the night, but they didn't. I think they rested by those trees for a while, but not all night.

Sayid was left behind as well. Perhaps being in the fresh air made the ladies come to faster than Jack and Sayid being in a confined space where the gas lingered.
That makes sense - or else an Other stayed behind long enough for the girls to bond and kept throwing in canisters when the guys started to come to - because there were several canisters in Jack's "house."
100%
I dont think it was that long. As soon as they woke up Kate wanted to go.. Juliet said she wanted to stay the night, but they didn't. I think they rested by those trees for a while, but not all night.
Kate woke up when it was daylight. It got dark and then when they awoke again, it was a new day.

I thought that was crazy too. If anything, I would think that the women, being a bit less weight, would have been unconcious for longer than Jack. There had to have been more than one canister in the house he was in.

I agree too that it just seems very set up, since Jack was left at the barracks and Kate and Juliet were tossed into the jungle. Let alone the fact that Juliet had to have handcuffed herself to Kate before they were gassed. I'm surprised that Kate didn't catch that and ask her about it. She pretended to be surprised with all the "what happened?" nonsense when she woke up. Was Juliet even truly unconcious, or did she go with the others to dump Kate in the jungle and then handcuff them together?

Juliet was not gassed, it was a setup.

Wait...I thought Juliet planted herself and Kate in the woods? Isn't that what she admitted to? Doesn't that mean Juliet wasn't gassed? Otherwise she couldn't have dragged Kate out there. I think they only gassed Kate, Jack, and Sayid. Maybe Juliet did something else to keep them out longer...

If Juliet was gassed, she had to have woken up long enough before Kate to do something else to make all of them unconscious a lot longer than herself...

Something is fishy around here--and it's not the smell of James' clothes!

And I wanna know how Juliet got hold of the key. The thing that makes THIS suspect is: if she woke up first, why drag Kate into the jungle and handcuff them? Wouldn't she check on Jack first? Or any of her friends in Otherville?


WAY, WAY, fishy here. . . .

Sayid was left behind as well. Perhaps being in the fresh air made the ladies come to faster than Jack and Sayid being in a confined space where the gas lingered.

I thought Juliet said that Sayid was in a "yard" somewhere. As in outside.

But then this opens a new question - how did she know where Jack and Sayid would be?

-AJF

Because Ben told her where they would be ;)

I can't believe we can see she is in on it but Kate and Jack can't and why not listen to Sayid - although would be nice to see Sayid ask her a million questions!

Well, the thread is already veering off topic, but I think it isn't really relevant (here) if Juliet was gassed or not, since we know Kate was.
That makes sense - or else an Other stayed behind long enough for the girls to bond and kept throwing in canisters when the guys started to come to - because there were several canisters in Jack's "house."
I didn't notice several canisters, because of all the debris and the panning around of the camera. I think it makes sense that extra canisters were added so that Juliet and Kate would have time to bond.

If Sayid was tied up, he wouldn't have needed extra, just enough for the group of Others to get away. He looked rather perky when they regrouped.

Kate woke up when it was daylight. It got dark and then when they awoke again, it was a new day.
Thanks for the confirmation.

I think that Juliet wasn't gassed and Kate was. I think that Kate came to early on because she is just crazy tough like that. She's such a tough fighter, really resilient. I think Jack was in a confined space without fresh air, so he didn't wake up.
It's kind of weird, but it's an explanation.

How in the long was Jack unconscious for? I mean, Kate is gassed and wakes up with Juliet in the jungle. In the daytime. They spend all day and all night and some of the next day in the jungle. When they get back to Other village, and Jack is still unconscious??? It would have seem like he would have been woke by the time Juliet and Kate got there. So I ask the question can we really trust Jack? He seem to have change some how. when Kate went to rescue Jack "in the man from Tallahassee",and she ask about the kids, Jack gave her the old stander response that the others usually give. He said that the kids were find. Now, in this episode he just been gas , "supposedly" he didn't awake until Kate woke him up, and he didn't ask any questions at all. He also continue to let Kate apologize for messing up his plan to leave the island, without mentioning to her that Locke blew up the sub. Now he want to take Juliet back with them.

Can we really trust Jack? , are we sure he wasn't brainwash?

And I wanna know how Juliet got hold of the key. The thing that makes THIS suspect is: if she woke up first, why drag Kate into the jungle and handcuff them? Wouldn't she check on Jack first? Or any of her friends in Otherville? Juliet had the key all along.. It was a con.. I don't think Juliet's people left her behind at all. This is just a mission to infiltrate the losties camp.

As for Jack being unconscious for such a length of time.. That does seem fishy, and once again I circle around him as overall being "fishy"...

Jack's prolonged sleep is odd. It is either a time line problem (the writers did not consider the difference in time to be noticeable), a drug problem (there's a difference in the effect in the canisters upon different persons, more weight to the person or more drug in the canister) or a set up by Juliet and Jack (neither were actually drugged, only Kate and Sayid, but feigned being drugged to accomplish a purpose).

What did Juliet say was her purpose? I don't remember details but I remember that the beginning of the rant made sense but the end did not. She wanted get Kate to work with her...then... Crap, my mind is a blank. I'll post again when I watch again.

Guys, the Juliet/Kate thing happened in a very short period of time. Remeber it got suddenly dark when it started to rain. It wasn't night so much as it was the sudden rainfall and then once the rainfall stopped it turned light. Just like at the start of season 1. Charlie comments how it suddenly starts raining and turns dark in like seconds.

Now Juliet still could be behind the whole set up but the amount of time that passed was minimal at best. If Jack and Sayid were really gased and it was not a hoax it makes perfect sense that they could still be out when Juliet and Kate found them. Remember that gas disapates at a much slower rate in a confind space as to an open area with wind. Although as to if Juliet was gased or not, that is a different issue.

I'm with you--he was either brainwashed and a plant along with Juliette or he is, at the very least, working with the Others

My best guess - NO we can't trust Jack - I am actually beginning to wonder just who we CAN trust?????

How in the long was Jack unconscious for? I mean, Kate is gassed and wakes up with Juliet in the jungle. In the daytime. They spend all day and all night and some of the next day in the jungle. When they get back to Other village, and Jack is still unconscious??? It would have seem like he would have been woke by the time Juliet and Kate got there. So I ask the question can we really trust Jack? He seem to have change some how. when Kate went to rescue Jack "in the man from Tallahassee",and she ask about the kids, Jack gave her the old stander response that the others usually give. He said that the kids were find. Now, in this episode he just been gas , "supposedly" he didn't awake until Kate woke him up, and he didn't ask any questions at all. He also continue to let Kate apologize for messing up his plan to leave the island, without mentioning to her that Locke blew up the sub. Now he want to take Juliet back with them.

Can we really trust Jack? , are we sure he wasn't brainwash?

I was thinking the same thing as I watched that scene. But then I remembered that Juliet told Kate "you go get Jack" like Juliet knew Jack would still be in his house. If Juliet was really gassed, how would she know that Jack didn't go with the Others? Why wouldn't she assume (since the gas wore off her and Kate) that Jack was already up and walking around the village, heading back to the beach, out looking for Kate ect. ect. It was like she knew Jack was still out.

I don't think Juliet was gassed or left behind.

I thought it was weird too that Jack was still asleep. That may be why they didn't show Juliet find Sayid. Sayid may not have been unconscious and that would have made Jack seem even more suspicious. But how would Jack know they were coming back for him and when? Maybe something else happened in between Juliet and Kate's "banishment" and Jack's gas attack.

I made a thread about this here (http://www.thefuselage.net/Threaded/showthread.php?t=74957), but what if it wasn' t knockout gas that put them out, but something in the food? The knockout gas could have been a ruse... for what reason, I have no idea.

I was thinking the same thing as I watched that scene. But then I remembered that Juliet told Kate "you go get Jack" like Juliet knew Jack would still be in his house. If Juliet was really gassed, how would she know that Jack didn't go with the Others? Why wouldn't she assume (since the gas wore off her and Kate) that Jack was already up and walking around the village, heading back to the beach, out looking for Kate ect. ect. It was like she knew Jack was still out.

I don't think Juliet was gassed or left behind.
I think you're right. The girls were definitely out a shorter period of time - but did you see there were multiple canisters in Jack's house? I think that one of the Others kept him gassed while Juliet had time to play her mind games with Kate. They sure worked on her, too. Then when they got back, Juliet makes sure that she is the one to get Sayid (who seemed alert) - and wouldn't you know Sayid reports that he has had time to look the area over and determine there were no Others (or weapons) left. Hmmm.

I think Jack hasn't been brainwashed per se or anything - but I do think that Juliet's mind games are getting to him and he now trusts her because of the branding thing and because she was left behind. I fear, though, that she was indeed left behind to infiltrate the Losties and that is exactly what is happening. Hopefully Sayid can get some valuable information out of her before her cover is blown or before she kidnaps Aaron.

I posted this in a similiar thread..

I was thinking the same thing about Jack still being out as I watched that scene. But then I remembered that Juliet told Kate "you go get Jack" like Juliet knew Jack would still be in his house. If Juliet was really gassed, how would she know that Jack didn't go with the Others? Also why would she assume (since the gas wore off her and Kate) that Jack was out. She should assume that Jack was already up and walking around the village, heading back to the beach, out looking for Kate ect. ect. It was like she knew Jack was still out.

I don't think Juliet was gassed or left behind. It is part of the master plan


That makes sense - or else an Other stayed behind long enough for the girls to bond and kept throwing in canisters when the guys started to come to - because there were several canisters in Jack's "house."
100%


I went back and re-watched the scene there are deffinately a least 4 canisters on the floor.

Harrumph....the way Jack cries so easily, it came to no surprise to me that he couldn't "handle" his gas cannisters.

I think you're right. The girls were definitely out a shorter period of time - but did you see there were multiple canisters in Jack's house? I think that one of the Others kept him gassed while Juliet had time to play her mind games with Kate. They sure worked on her, too. Then when they got back, Juliet makes sure that she is the one to get Sayid (who seemed alert) - and wouldn't you know Sayid reports that he has had time to look the area over and determine there were no Others (or weapons) left. Hmmm.

I think Jack hasn't been brainwashed per se or anything - but I do think that Juliet's mind games are getting to him and he now trusts her because of the branding thing and because she was left behind. I fear, though, that she was indeed left behind to infiltrate the Losties and that is exactly what is happening. Hopefully Sayid can get some valuable information out of her before her cover is blown or before she kidnaps Aaron.

Good points! I don't think anything happened to Jack besides being knocked out for a while, but he does now trust Juliet, which I think is a bad decision. I think she has to be an Other still...

So two things here -

1. It wasn't a full day that Juliet and Kate were in the woods

and

2. Jack had more than one can of gas??


Then if that is true then maybe Jack wasn't in on it -
Just when I think I have a clue - I get Lost again!

I dont rememer how dark it was, was it obvious nighttime?.. it was also raining, and they were in the middle of the jungle.

but did you see there were multiple canisters in Jack's house?

I thought that there were, so I went back and re-watched this scene, and there are at least 4 canisters on the floor in Jack's house.

Just trying to understand the timeline of the episode.... I thought Juliet and Kate were out in the jungle a long time. Enough time to fight, run from smokey twice, even sleep in the banyan trees. And then they get to Otherville and Jack is still unconscious?

from a Stargate episode:

Col. O'Neill: What's going on?
Dr. Jackson: [refering to Loki] We're pretty sure this As*-gard (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asgard_%28Stargate%29) kidnapped you and attempted to replace you with a clone.
Col. O'Neill: How long was I asleep?!
Maj. Carter (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samantha_Carter): Seven days.
Col. O'Neill: That's a record.

Another thing, Kate was probably taken out of the gas fairly quickly and brought out to the jungle. Jack probably laid there inhaling it for a long time, getting a much higher dose.

My question is: where was Sayid when all of this was going on? I know he was in "a backyard somewhere" according to Juliet, but if he was in open air he wouldn't have passed out. What did he see? Is this not important? They didn't show it. All of a sudden, Jack and Kate walk out (remember Jack was barely able to walk from all the gas) and there's Juliet with backpacks and Sayid follows her. I think Jack and Juliet were in on this. I'm not sure, but he never questioned her, he just let her come with them.

She took Kate to the woods to have time with her to try to get Kate on her side so she wouldn't end up by herself on the island.

Yeah... either something really fishy is going on or this was really badly shot, or this was shot to confuse us.

We also got some night-time scenes at the beach camp mixed in with Kate and Juliet's night time/ tree scenes. They fall asleep after Kate pops Juliet's arm back into place, and the next scene we see is a flashback and then Kate and Juliet waking up and it's daytime. Heck, for all we know Juliet uncuffed herself from Kate and did something during the night, then came back during the day before Kate woke up. Seems a little far fetched though.

Why did the others find it necessary to all put on gas masks while they were running around outside? It's so weird...

I think it was a setup - why leave him behind IN the house and throw Kate and Juliet out in the woods -
to force Kate to accept Juliet - no other way she would ever agree to let Juliet come back - and to make it seem that Jack too was left behind -

One big set up if you ask me!Thats what I was thinking too.

My question is: where was Sayid when all of this was going on? I know he was in "a backyard somewhere" according to Juliet, but if he was in open air he wouldn't have passed out. What did he see? Is this not important? They didn't show it.He said "They seemed to vanish into thin air." I'm betting Sayid was still chained to the swingset - Juliet un-cuffed him. He probably didn't get gassed at all.

Jack was in a narrow hallway the gas would linger there longer than in a larger room. jack was also face down which would keep him out and grogy for some time.

Kate and Juliet were in the open thus allowing them to breath fresh air and revive quickly. However, Juliet quick reaction to the knife by grabbing Kates arm showed she was probably not gassed.

[quote=ZoeWashburne;1472172]Good points! I don't think anything happened to Jack besides being knocked out for a while, but he does now trust Juliet, which I think is a bad decision. I think she has to be an Other still...[/quote

Remember what Ben said to Jack after Jack secured a promise (from Ben) to release Juliet? ".....she's still one of us, Jack."

Jack's cabin was pretty trashed too. I bet he put up a struggle with the gas not kicking in fast enough so they REALLY dosed him. Kate had the benefit of inhaling fresh clean air so it would make sense she woke up faster. And when we last saw Sayid he was cuffed to the swingset so maybe the Others didn't want to risk moving him, they packed their bags, put on thier gas masks, and started gassing Kate, Jack and Sayid right where they were confined.

Possible explanation:

I think that Juliet is not conning the Losties on behalf of the Others. She killed Pickett, they wanted her dead after that trial in "Stranger in a Strange Land", and the Others abandoned the place -- why would they want to take her along with them?

I think the simplest explanation is that Juliet herself was gassed but took quicker action to immediately counteract its effects by using a spare gas mask she had lying around, breaking out of her house quicker or something along those lines. She probably knew what to do because there was probably some sort of protocol in-place for dealing with situations where a gas mask or something would be necessary, or she knew what the specific gas was -- she was a part of their group, after all -- and how to handle it. Then, she saw Sayid also knocked out while chained to the swingset, Jack knocked out on the floor, and Kate, too. At that point, Juliet must have thought of her con against Kate -- trying to drive a wedge between her and Jack -- and then quickly ran into the house where Kate was knocked out. Seeing as Kate was only out for a few minutes, probably, she didn't have to breathe in too much of it. So then, Juliet dragged her away into the jungle, handcuffed herself to Kate, and then lay there motionless until Kate woke up, which is why she was able to respond to the knife so quickly -- she put the knife there intentionally, knowing that Kate would use it and make a noise, and that it would be the perfect opportunity to feign regaining consciousness and pretend like she didn't know what was going on.

As a result, Kate wasn't exposed to the gas for long and was quickly taken outside. Juliet wasn't exposed much -- if at all -- and planned the con for her own self-interest, and not that of the Others. Sayid was probably knocked out, too, likely woke up before Jack (outdoors, daylight, etc.), but was unable to move because he was chained. Jack, on the other hand, received the largest "dose" of gas, was indoors, and was not removed by Juliet because she needed time to execute her plan.

I don't think there's a timeline issue or something nefarious behind why it took Jack so long to wake up compared to Kate.

It is strange that supposedly both Sayid & Jack were asleep that long. I believe that Jack is still working with the Others, but I don't think Sayid is. Sayid may have played like he was knocked out and witnessed Jack setting up his con.

That would make for an interesting revealation in the future.

When we see Sayid he tells everyone that he has checked out all the houses and he doesn't appear as groggy as Jack....

;)

You're all assuming they were gassed at the same time. Maybe Jack and Sayid were gassed after Kate and Juliet were already taken out to the jungle.

You're all assuming they were gassed at the same time. Maybe Jack and Sayid were gassed after Kate and Juliet were already taken out to the jungle.

Add this one to the list of possibles:

My first impression, upon seeing all the junk strewn around Jack and not noticing any canisters (though I'll trust you folks who say I just missed 'em) was that the Doc wasn't gassed at all, but instead had gotten hit with an industrial-sized can of WHUP-*** by who knows how many Others carrying bludgeons or somesuch. A nice old-fashioned concussion could result in a mighty long unplanned nap for our lad Jack.

(for the record, the playing possum angle also struck me as an alternate possibility)

- mnw

That was kind of ridiculous. When Kate walked in and Jack was still on the floor unconscious I was baffled. So Juliet and Kate woke up but Jack was still out!! Until of course Kate showed up to wake him up!! What about Sayid too, was he still out?
It's not that big of a deal, but it did bug me.

juliet said she was gassed also. that she woke up and they had all left. so she what? picked up kate and carried her into the jungle. she knew jack was already on her side. kate had to be manipulated. so she now has kate and jack thinking she's ok. plus she has kate feeling enough guilt that she will back off jack and give juliet free roam there. juliet is the others perfect plant.

Someone in another thread similar to this said that maybe they put something in the food, Juliet was bringing Kate a sandwich, so she probably brought Sayid and Jack one too, before they even threw the gas in there. Kate didn't eat, and she was awake before Jack. They may have even injected them with something after they passed out from the gas.

Few responses to some of the thoughts that were posted here...

1) I don't think Jack is with the Others. It's not consistent with his story arc. There is nothing in his past that would indicate a need for community, unlike Locke. Locke's more likely to switch "sides." I do think though that Jack is being duped by Juliet.

2) Juliet, the handcuffs, the jungle etc. This has really been bugging me. Either the writers made an errror or she is obviously still working on infiltrating the Losties. In short, Juliet said Ben has her cuffed to Kate, but she ended up having the key and admitted she did it herself. But she also insisted she was left behind. If so, then she would have had to find Kate in the jungle to cuff herself to her after she came through after being gased. Or she would have had to drag Kate out into the jungle then cuff her. Either way, both scenarios seem farfetched. The only logical explanation is that Kate was placed there and Juliet had knowledge out it and maybe (likely) participated in it. There is definitely an angle to this.

I am seriously unsold on the idea that Juliet is a spy. People who are already outed as a member of an opposing faction make really lousy spies. Ben and the others are well aware of Sayid's "talents" and aren't likely to throw somebody to the wolves if they're in on the plan.

On the other hand, Juliet makes a great patsy for the real spy. Leave her handcuff key on her, put her with somebody for whom they know there's a history, and gas her and leave her like the rest of the bunch but with no knowledge of the real plan and you've got yourself the perfect decoy. Juliet will get all the attention from those who are suspicious and draw attention away from the real spy. To me that sounds like a plan Ben would come up with.

I would not be surprised at this point if Jack wound up being that spy. I'm already on board with the idea that Jacob could very well be Christian Shepard, and the fact he was unconscious for a minimum of 12 hours more than Kate/Juliet has me convinced something fishy is going on.

Yea me and my mom thought of the same thing.
I mean, how would he have been laying there for an entire day, while Juliette and Kate woke up so soon afterwards.
Something just isn't right. I think that Jack and Juliette are both moles for the others.

I'll have to rewatch, but I thought Juliet was just explaining why she didn't unlock the handcuffs immediately. Not that she'd cuffed herself to Kate in the first place. Assuming she isn't still working with Ben (which I rather think she is), she could just carry a masterkey for the Dharma handcuffs and no one searched her. It's also possible she knew of the gassing plan and expected to go with the Others--until the gas canister came through her door.

What doesn't make sense, is if she was really left behind, is why bother handcuffing her to Kate and dumping them in the jungle in the first place? Why not just gas them and leave them in the abandoned village with Jack and Sayid? Either it was just a plot device or we're supposed to be suspicious of her. Jack would have still taken Juliet with them if they'd all just been left at the village.

Sayid may not have been gassed at all, he was already neutralized by being cuffed to the swingset (or whatever it was) in someone's yard. Kate was also locked up. If they just gassed her to move her, there might not be any reason to gas Sayid. Unless they didn't want people left behind to see how they left (such as the sub not blown up). Even then, Sayid might not have been able to see anything from his location.

She took Kate to the woods to have time with her to try to get Kate on her side so she wouldn't end up by herself on the island.

And wasn't THAT a silly plan. Juliet already had an ally in Jack. She knows the Losties listen to Jack, and if Jack said take Juliet to the beach, she would have been golden. Juliet would have had all the time she needed to ingrate herself with the beach dwellers once she made camp. As it stands now, Kate still doesn't trust Juliet, and it seems even more suspicious that Juliet dragged her into the woods and pretended to be handcuffed!

Not that this is definitely what happened (who can say that about ANYTHING on this show! ;) ) but here's a plausible theory:

Others decide for whatever reason to take off.

John, who's been in some kind of fight, is joining them and goes to say goodbye to kate and tell her that he knows about her past.

Meanwhile, Juliet is told by Ben that she's not coming and that she's on her own. There's not much she can do about it, there's a mob of armed people leaving and she's told to stay, and not to follow. Alternatively, she's not told anything, they just ditch her. But I would say they just tell her you're on your own, then leave.

They toss gas into the areas with Jack, Sayid and Kate. The Others take off.

Juliet sits tight until they are out of sight, then (having hatched the plan she confessed to be included) runs in and grabs the unconscious kate, and drags her out of the house, and out into the jungle. She handcuffs herself to Kate and plays dead.

Kate, who was exposed to the gas for far less time than Sayid and Jack, comes to in an hour or so. Meanwhile, Jack and Sayid are still being exposed to the canisters and are out for 18-24 hours.

Juliet, who's faking it, hears the blade open and immediately grabs Kate's wrist, an indication that she was not really out.

The rest we know.

Just one theory. Of course, the only thing we'd need to change to make her a mole is that she was told by Ben you're not coming, but if you get me information, I'll let you go home, yadda yadda. Still under duress, she hatches the same plan.

:)

I think that Jack was just gassed much later or kept sedated the whole time- I really believe that this is all part of a Long Con or as Juliette put it "mind games"

I believe Juliette and Ben are the masterminds of the mind games - I think that the whole jury thing about when the others were deciding to kill Juliette was a set up to make Jack think he "saved" her.

I think when Juliette showed Jack that video about wanting to kill Ben that was also a set-up to get Jack to think she wasn't an other. We know that Alex said Ben is a manipulator, so the whole leaving on the submarine and then Locke blowing it up was a set - up too.

Think about it. These others make a big deal about studying and knowing every aspect of the survivors lives. They use this info to manipulate this grand scheme. There is no doubt in my mind that they gassed kate - Julette took her out to the woods to "gain her trust" and they kept Jack sedated the whole time.

Not that this is definitely what happened (who can say that about ANYTHING on this show! ;) ) but here's a plausible theory:

Others decide for whatever reason to take off.

John, who's been in some kind of fight, is joining them and goes to say goodbye to kate and tell her that he knows about her past.

Meanwhile, Juliet is told by Ben that she's not coming and that she's on her own. There's not much she can do about it, there's a mob of armed people leaving and she's told to stay, and not to follow. Alternatively, she's not told anything, they just ditch her. But I would say they just tell her you're on your own, then leave.

They toss gas into the areas with Jack, Sayid and Kate. The Others take off.

Juliet sits tight until they are out of sight, then (having hatched the plan she confessed to be included) runs in and grabs the unconscious kate, and drags her out of the house, and out into the jungle. She handcuffs herself to Kate and plays dead.

Kate, who was exposed to the gas for far less time than Sayid and Jack, comes to in an hour or so. Meanwhile, Jack and Sayid are still being exposed to the canisters and are out for 18-24 hours.

Juliet, who's faking it, hears the blade open and immediately grabs Kate's wrist, an indication that she was not really out.

The rest we know.

Just one theory. Of course, the only thing we'd need to change to make her a mole is that she was told by Ben you're not coming, but if you get me information, I'll let you go home, yadda yadda. Still under duress, she hatches the same plan.

:)

I'm with you, except for Sayid. No need to gas him; he's not going anywhere. Plus, he's outside, not in a confined area.

No need to gas Kate either, unless someone wanted her unconscious in order to start a new con :)

I think it was a setup - why leave him behind IN the house and throw Kate and Juliet out in the woods -
to force Kate to accept Juliet - no other way she would ever agree to let Juliet come back - and to make it seem that Jack too was left behind -

One big set up if you ask me!

Very good point, and I was just thinking the same thing. There is no real reason for leaving Juliet cuffed to Kate in the jungle, then leave Jack and Sayid back at Othersville. It all seems like a master plan to me.

They may have gassed him twice or later than the other people that were gassed.

I think that exposition times are key here, as far as we know Kate could have been just a minute or two breathing the gas and then carried to the jungle where she was left, while Jack and Sayid could have breath it for hours since both of them were in closed spaces.
Kate was probably out about 5 or 6 hours (the time she and Juliet would have need to go back to Lostville in good conditions) , even though she breath very little gas she weights considerably less than the guys.
And I seriously doubt that Juliet was gassed at all, I suspect that she is in cahoots with Ben or someone, because I can't picture her strong enough for carrying Kate all that way to the jungle in so little time, nor dragging her, because then the dislocated shoulder would had been Kate's and not Juliet's.
So long story short, the awakening time are OK with me, and Juliet is as iffy as it gets...

My best guess - NO we can't trust Jack - I am actually beginning to wonder just who we CAN trust?????

Certainly not Vincent. Hes really him.

He might have been sleeping when Kate got there... No idea why he'd sleep on the floor like that.

LOL

Or the gas they used on him could have just been stronger stuff.

He might have been sleeping when Kate got there... No idea why he'd sleep on the floor like that.

LOL

Or the gas they used on him could have just been stronger stuff.

Yeah, ha!

Jack: What did you wake me up for? I was taking a nap!
Kate: You were gassed, jack.
Jack: Yeah, but I woke up yesterday, and me and Sayid played checkers til you guys came back.

just wanted to say that mess in the house could have been jack struggling like crazy..
he could have been knocked out.. just a thought..
cause my first thought too was the same when kate arrived.. how could he have been out for so long.. or did he seem coming and lay back down... hum.. ..have to rewatch!

I don't think Jack was gassed.. I think he was waiting for Kate to discover him..

I thought that was crazy too. If anything, I would think that the women, being a bit less weight, would have been unconcious for longer than Jack. There had to have been more than one canister in the house he was in.

I agree too that it just seems very set up, since Jack was left at the barracks and Kate and Juliet were tossed into the jungle. ?

Guys

as always..this is "I dont beleieve anthing I see" syndrome. Just accept the story as it is told and move on. There's nothin to see here folks..haha

If you absolutely must ponder it...Juliet is obviously the most skilled in combating the others tactics--she probably was the quickest to react when the canister was thrown in and just bagged it

Jack put up a decent fight as we can see from the state of his room. There is nothing else to it. The deception in the epi was Juilet cuffing herself to kate--now we go to the beach.

Didn't someone already say that there were four canisters in Jack's house?? That would be the most reasonable explanation.

I'm going with Jack's lying, and starting to think Juliet is the red herring to divert attention from Jack.
Just accept the story as it is told and move on. There's nothin to see here folks..haha Now what's the fun in that? :rolleyes: I tend to question authority, and would rather not be spoon-fed the story or take it at face value. The fun is in peeling back the layers and always questioning... treating it like a whodunnit..

Think gas can - kool aid -- Jack has been fed it all and is on his way back to the beach - ANGRY with Locke for taking away his chance to leave -
my guess Jack will stop at nothing to destroy what Locke will want to protect now -

I like the idea that Juliet is the red herring -- good one!

I think the destruction in Jack's "house" is a very telling piece of evidence that the viewers were shown in this episode. Why would there be any damage in his house? If you just toss a smoke grenade in through a door or a window, you're done. The gas will fill the house and the person inside will be rendered unconscious. Therefore, why WAS Jack's house a battlefield? Why was there overturned furniture and smashed glass everywhere?

I'm not so sure that Jack was gassed at all, although there were two canisters on the floor. That could be just a ruse. It may be that he was drugged earlier, and he put up a fight to prevent it. That whole thing is definitely a question mark.

I also think it's very premature to assume that Jack has turned or has been changed. Just because he is bringing Juliet back with them doesn't necessarily mean it's a bad move. Juliet is a wealth of information, so why leave her behind? Didn't Sayid want to keep Mikhail alive for the same reasons?

Next week should be interesting.

My first thought when I saw his house a wreck was that he threw things around and destroyed things when he found out he wasn't going to get to go home.
I thought Jack did the breaking of things - just a thought

I think Jack was either "multi gassed" and put up a fight and knocked unconscious....or he was gassed, put up a fight and sedated......he came round very groggy, indicative of possible sedation or having been knocked out as well as gassed

As for Kate she was removed quickly from the gassed area and Juliette probably was never gassed....though putting herself out in the jungle (handcuffed to spitfire Kate) where the monster resides was a pretty daring way to gain Kate's trust....Sayid was handcuffed in the back yard - and not going anywhere (was he ever gassed?)

Didn't someone already say that there were four canisters in Jack's house?? That would be the most reasonable explanation.

Would it really make a different? I mean, if one canisters put Jack out, he would have been already out when they put 3 more canisters, it would have been a waste, like putting extra change in the parking meter. It will not give you extra time, until your original time is up, and than you add more money. So I think the extra canisters are a red herring. Actually, I think Jack and Juliet might have help. Juliet claim that she was gassed along with Kate, but if that was true, than how would she had been aware that she had the keys to the handcuff in her pocket. ?

My first thought when I saw his house a wreck was that he threw things around and destroyed things when he found out he wasn't going to get to go home.
I thought Jack did the breaking of things - just a thought
My first reaction was that it was still a mess from when Kate and Sayid were apprehended there. :shrug: