I don't know if anyone's theorized about this, but I was talking with a friend after watching the show, and we were thinking, what if it really wasn't knockout gas that they used on Kate, but some kind of sedative in the food? They could have been watching her with cameras and when she took a bite, knew that she only had a few moments before falling unconscious.

They would then set up the elaborate ruse to make it look like they were gassing her. For what reason? I have no idea.

Some things that poke holes in this theory:
1) Wouldn't the flies be affected by the poison as well?
2) Seems like it would be hard to time the fake gassing perfectly, as they would have to take into account how much food she ate. She only took a small bite of the bread. Unless of course, it doesn't matter how much you eat, you fall out a set amount of time no matter how much of the chemical you ingest.

Any takers?

well jack was passed out next to what looked like a broken plate and food. So maybe its possible.

That would make no sense. If they were poisoning the food, why even bother? Seems they would either just put stuff in the food or just gas her.

That would make no sense. If they were poisoning the food, why even bother? Seems they would either just put stuff in the food or just gas her.

It would make perfect sense. If Kate knew she was knocked out by the food, she would never trust Juliet which of course she would know if she went unconcious after just eating the sandwich the evil juliet just made. It had to look like the others abondoned Juliet and knocked her out as well. She was never unconcious, I dont think.

Overthinking things...no way, sorry :(

edit: also, why would it even matter? either way she was sedated, and jack ate juliet's food and he was fine. it was the gas

Check this out

http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage-1273-210.html

http://www.alslesslethal.com/SpecsHtm/psg272.htm

Ok, this is the gas canister used. Which I now admit, is a chemical gas used by police. However, this may be a longshot. But the gas alsG272 CS Gas is described by the manufacturer as more of a tear gas. Now maybe this is the only grenade the could get ahold of and for the purpose of the show it was supposed to be a knockout gas.
I will let you all decide. I am straying from my theory now though and am inclined to agree that it was the gas.

Maybe the reason Jack and Sayid were knocked out longer than Juliet and Kate was because something was slipped into their food. I know I am going out on a pretty big limb here but Kate knocked her food tray out of juliet's hand and ate very little.So maybe gassing her was plan B. Plus I don't believe for a minute that Juliet was abandoned.

Although I love Juliet I'm skeptical of her still.

I think she lied more than once last night.

First, she said she was left behind like Kate. But actually had the key and wanted Kate to think she was left behind. SO -- there's no way Juliet could have carried Kate into the middle of the jungle. She needed help.

Second, she didn't realize the others moved. However, she knew that the fence was deactivated.

I think, even though she likes Jack, she may still be part of the others.

Yeah, that waking up in the jungle is becoming a theme of its own, but sticking with my point about the gassing it just seems that Jack and sayid should have woken before kate given body weight differences.

I say she's planted herself as Ben's watchdog of the Losties...It just made sense ( especially the key in the pocket part )

Juliet also lied about smokey. Obviously she did know that smokey existed, but I think she was also lying about the extent of her knowledge of smokey.

I think smokey scanned her and she knew it. I also think now that she's been "scanned" and probably has avoided it her entire time -- for fear of judgment -- her ability to attract what she deserves is in full effect. In other words, if she's done some horrible things that we haven't seen then I would expect smokey to show up soon for her judgment. If she's been decent and honroable I think smokey will reward her like Locke.

i completely agree with the notion that juliet is still with the others...the time just doesnt add up......it seemed there was a least a day difference between when kate woke up and when jack woke up, why would they wake up way earlier than jack and sayid...i cant help to think they used smokey as a device to try and gain kate's trust (at least for the con...juliet would help save kate from it, and perhaps gain a little trust?)...also on the preview for next weeks epi


juliet said that "they'd kill her" if she told sayid everything....why would she be worried about spilling the beans if her own people left her behind (which she seemed very distraught over last night)

I have no doubt at this point that Juliet has her own agenda but what is it? And will living with the 815'ers change her or make her more determined?

I think its fairly obvious by now that Juliette lies. There's no "maybe" about it. But what did she lie about? I don't think Jack is all innocent and light. And I'd like to know what Sayid was up to during that time. He was tied up? I know we need more information but... dang!

The whole gassed vs. food theory is going a little too far out on a limb. Does it really matter? WIll we suddenly discover some major island secret if it was really in her food. It seems a little odd to be spending so much time thinking about it.

The whole gassed vs. food theory is going a little too far out on a limb. Does it really matter? WIll we suddenly discover some major island secret if it was really in her food. It seems a little odd to be spending so much time thinking about it.

You've obviously not been in any of the threads taken over by the shippers.
Every plot point has its theorizers. If this one isn't yours, you'll find one that is, and those of us think it's trivial will politely leave you to your musings.

This is a gross case of over-thought.

It's kinda like asking what if Juliet is a natural brunette instead of a blond. Now that it has been established that Juliet is deceitful (as evidenced by her having the key to the handcuffs)- there would be absolutely no point to this little "theory"

You've obviously not been in any of the threads taken over by the shippers.
Every plot point has its theorizers. If this one isn't yours, you'll find one that is, and those of us think it's trivial will politely leave you to your musings.

Fair point. Live and let post I geuss.

Maybe my point is this: How they were actually knocked out isn't that important but why and who knocked them out is. Except for juliet they were all prisoners so why knock them out ALL!

Although I love Juliet I'm skeptical of her still.

I think she lied more than once last night.

First, she said she was left behind like Kate. But actually had the key and wanted Kate to think she was left behind. SO -- there's no way Juliet could have carried Kate into the middle of the jungle. She needed help.

Second, she didn't realize the others moved. However, she knew that the fence was deactivated.

I think, even though she likes Jack, she may still be part of the others.

hmmm, like how Ben left her in the aquarium to drown with Jack...perhaps it was a setup to make it look like Juliet and Ben didn't really get along with eachother...making Jack think he is the hero.

Overthinking things...no way, sorry :(

Seconded

I don't know if anyone's theorized about this, but I was talking with a friend after watching the show, and we were thinking, what if it really wasn't knockout gas that they used on Kate, but some kind of sedative in the food? They could have been watching her with cameras and when she took a bite, knew that she only had a few moments before falling unconscious.

They would then set up the elaborate ruse to make it look like they were gassing her. For what reason? I have no idea.

Some things that poke holes in this theory:
1) Wouldn't the flies be affected by the poison as well?
2) Seems like it would be hard to time the fake gassing perfectly, as they would have to take into account how much food she ate. She only took a small bite of the bread. Unless of course, it doesn't matter how much you eat, you fall out a set amount of time no matter how much of the chemical you ingest.

Any takers?

You're thinking way too deep. Why would it even matter anyway?

I thought I'd contribute by pointing out a little fly in the ointment. I hope nobody is offended. But the reality is that there is NO SUCH FRIKKIN THING as "knockout gas".

There is only one knockout gas made in the world, and it was manufactured in the Soviet Union, and now Russia. It is called Kolokol-1 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KOLOKOL-1), (Kolokol in Russian means "bell"). The only incidence I know of its ever having been used in real life was when the Russian police used it against the Chechen terrorists who had taken hostages in the Moscow theater (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moscow_theatre_siege)in 2002. The results of their using it was that over 120 of the hostages died from it. So to put it mildly, Kolokol is not very safe...

Of course all of you have seen knockout gas used in movies such as James Bond and Batman. So it MUST exist in real life, right? Well, unfortunately, no. It's like the super quiet silencers they put on guns, it only exists in the imagination of screenwriters.

So... since knockout gas doesn't really exist (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knockout_gas)in real life, there are two options here:

1) The Lost writers are using it as a fictitious literary device.
2) The Others were using a regular smoke grenade (as seen in the screencaps) in order to make Kate (and possibly Jack, Sayid and Juliet) believe they'd been gassed, when in fact there is some other explanation for Kate's unconcsiousness. Perhaps the food, yes, but it seems rather strange that it was timed so precisely. And why were all the Others wearing gas masks?

I think that the writers have strayed from the truth here, folks, that's my conclusion. I really don't think that they knew that knockout gas doesn't exist. But I may be wrong, I've been wrong plenty of times before...

Maybe my point is this: How they were actually knocked out isn't that important but why and who knocked them out is. Except for juliet they were all prisoners so why knock them out ALL!

To cover their exit. If they left them concious, they would have escaped soon after and would have known the direction they went and would have been able to follow. This way, they get a solid head start and our guys wouldnt know where to start.

I thought I'd contribute by pointing out a little fly in the ointment. I hope nobody is offended. But the reality is that there is NO SUCH FRIKKIN THING as "knockout gas".

There is only one knockout gas made in the world, and it was manufactured in the Soviet Union, and now Russia. It is called Kolokol-1 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KOLOKOL-1), (Kolokol in Russian means "bell"). The only incidence I know of its ever having been used in real life was when the Russian police used it against the Chechen terrorists who had taken hostages in the Moscow theater (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moscow_theatre_siege)in 2002. The results of their using it was that over 120 of the hostages died from it. So to put it mildly, Kolokol is not very safe...

Of course all of you have seen knockout gas used in movies such as James Bond and Batman. So it MUST exist in real life, right? Well, unfortunately, no. It's like the super quiet silencers they put on guns, it only exists in the imagination of screenwriters.

So... since knockout gas doesn't really exist (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knockout_gas)in real life, there are two options here:

1) The Lost writers are using it as a fictitious literary device.
2) The Others were using a regular smoke grenade (as seen in the screencaps) in order to make Kate (and possibly Jack, Sayid and Juliet) believe they'd been gassed, when in fact there is some other explanation for Kate's unconcsiousness. Perhaps the food, yes, but it seems rather strange that it was timed so precisely. And why were all the Others wearing gas masks?

I think that the writers have strayed from the truth here, folks, that's my conclusion. I really don't think that they knew that knockout gas doesn't exist. But I may be wrong, I've been wrong plenty of times before...


The screenshot of the cannister clearly marks it as teargas, pretty common.

Do u know what happens to a person in a confined room, if u chuck a cannister of teargas into it?

They pass out from lack of oxygen.

After that its a simple matter of injecting them with a sedative, obviously stronger for the boys as they slept a whole night longer.
After all as we already know, the Others do not have an anaesthesiologist.

-Exodus

The screenshot of the cannister clearly marks it as teargas, pretty common.

Do u know what happens to a person in a confined room, if u chuck a cannister of teargas into it?

They pass out from lack of oxygen.

After that its a simple matter of injecting them with a sedative, obviously stronger for the boys as they slept a whole night longer.
After all as we already know, the Others do not have an anaesthesiologist.

-Exodus

I've been in CS tear gas. I know first hand what it does, and there was nothing in Kate's reactions to the gas that would indicate that she was being exposed to teargas (specifically CS tear gas) in the rec center.

Once again, for those who didn't see it earlier in this thread, here is the image (http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage.php?pid=92603&fullsize=1) of the canister as being a CS grenade (http://www.alslesslethal.com/SpecsHtm/psg272.htm).

To start off, here is a technical spec (http://www.zarc.com/english/tear_gases/csmain.html) of CS tear gas. Notice what the most obvious and noticeable effects of the gas are:

CS causes burning and lacrimation of the eyes as well as irritation of the skin and respiratory system. The burning effects of the eyes and skin will be similar to CN and the irritation of the respiratory system will result in sneezing. It could take many seconds before the effect of CS is realized. CS is most irritating in a humid climate and on a moist skin surface.

Here is a series of screenshots showing Kate's reaction to the gas:

Screenshot 1 (http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage.php?pid=92585&fullsize=1). She's holding a cloth to her mouth and nose - not to her eyes.

Screenshot 2. (http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage.php?pid=92587&fullsize=1) She is exhibiting no affects from the gas to her eyes, which if it was supposed to be tear gas, would have by this point made it nearly impossible for her to keep them open, let alone be alert and with no tears forming.

Screenshot 3. (http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage.php?pid=92592&fullsize=1) Her she has fallen on the floor and is in the process of losing consciousness. This again is not the way a person would be behaving if she was in a room full of tear gas. She would have been screaming, tearing at something to get out, having violent physical reactions to the asphyxiation process and the chemical stinging to the eyes, throat and nasal passages. She would not have simply lay down on the ground as if overcome by a drug.

Screenshot 4. (http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage.php?pid=92596&fullsize=1) Here is the last shot of her. She has not been showing signs of asphyxiation. This was CLEARLY meant to convey that she had been drugged somehow, not deprived of oxygen.

Video. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AWZVZgzLUgI) This shows what a typical reaction to exposure to tear gas does to a person, in this case a British soldier going through training who has just come out of a room full of CS tear gas. Notice how he cannot keep his eyes open easily, and how he is reacting to the gas' harsh influence on his respiratory system. Kate did not show any of these signs.

Here is a quote from a Wiki article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CS_gas) describing the effects of CS tear gas, which I myself would attest to from personal experience:


CS incapacitant spray is used as a temporary incapacitant, to subdue attackers, or persons who are violently aggressive, by many police forces. The chemical reacts with moisture on the skin and in the eyes causing a burning sensation and the immediate forceful shutting of the eyes. Reported effects can include tears streaming from the eyes, running nose full of mucus, burning in the nose and throat areas, disorientation, dizziness and restricted breathing. In highly concentrated doses it can also induce severe coughing and vomiting.


Again, Kate did not demonstrate ANY of these symptoms.

Conclusion:

Although they clearly showed us a canister of CS tear gas, Kate did not exhibit any signs of being exposed to that gas. Instead, she appeared to have been drugged, as if she'd been exposed to a knockout gas. Kate did not demonstrate any reaction to the gas by blinking or squinting her eyes, having tears form, coughing, vomiting, or expelling mucous - which are the classic and involuntary symptoms of exposure to any tear gas. She also did not demonstrate any symptoms of asphyxiation, which include involuntary muscle spasms, panic, gasping for breath, or any other indication she was deprived of oxygen. Instead, she appeared to simply lie down and go to sleep as if she was being drugged.

why use the gas at all? why not just lock them up and walk off?

one possible answer is that they want the losties to get away. IF they were locked in, there was a chance they wouldn't get out. gassing just gives a time delay.

but if jules carried kate into the forrest, then she wasn't gassed. so why didn't she go with the others, or follow them? why go for the befriending Kate option?

why were the others putting on gas masks outside?

The scene in which Kate passed out made it very clear it was the gas canister which, by the way, is made by a real company.

.... Perhaps the food, yes, but it seems rather strange that it was timed so precisely. And why were all the Others wearing gas masks?


If you mean how immediately after Kate took a bite of the bread the Others then put the gas cannisters into use, then yes that was weird. But she could have been on camera and an Other from the Hydra TV room radioed the other Others that she just bit the laced bread.

One more thing, from left field really. Notice how Kate didn't go for the meat, Let's remember, Kate is a vegetarian. So what if then the meat was laced, not the bread, but the monitoring Other didn't see that she did not eat the meat. The Others then blow off the gas cannisters to obscure their exit just in case Kate or Sayid were still concious. Kate then tries to follow them but eventually collapses in the Jungle from hunger and exhaustion. Juliette then cuffs herself to Kate, for what real reason we do not know yet.

Naturally, Kate is a bit bewildered when she wakes up and sees she is handcuffed to Juliette (Hey whaddyknow! So was I.)

The scene in which Kate passed out made it very clear it was the gas canister which, by the way, is made by a real company.

Yeah, it sure was. It is made by ALS Technologies, Inc. Uhm, if you read this thread through you'd find out that this is very thoroughly discussed. The canister is not a knockout gas, but a tear gas called CS. So, what are you trying to say here? You're not really telling us anything new that hasn't already been hammered out extensively in this thread... I mean no offense, but I'm just asking for you to elaborate. It sounds like you're saying that you believe the tear gas knocked her out, right? But I don't know if that's really what you mean or not. Let us know what it is you're trying to say, please.

Yeah, it sure was. It is made by ALS Technologies, Inc. Uhm, if you read this thread through you'd find out that this is very thoroughly discussed. The canister is not a knockout gas, but a tear gas called CS. So, what are you trying to say here? You're not really telling us anything new that hasn't already been hammered out extensively in this thread... I mean no offense, but I'm just asking for you to elaborate. It sounds like you're saying that you believe the tear gas knocked her out, right? But I don't know if that's really what you mean or not. Let us know what it is you're trying to say, please.


I'm just pointing out what I saw on that specific scene: a group of others putting GAS masks on, then throwing one gas canister in the room where Kate was, and then Kate falling on the floor loosing consciousness. She looked very lucid to me before the whole gas thing. Sometimes people read TOO hard into it. Besides, does it matter if it was something in the food or the gas? Does it change anything important in the plot?

And yes, I do believe the 'tear gas' knocked her out. Perhaps in the real world of Lost, that company makes 'knockout gas' too! After all, the writers came up with a new species of spider just for this show...Why not have ALS Technologies Inc. manufacture KNOCKOUT GAS also?

I'm just pointing out what I saw on that specific scene: a group of others putting GAS masks on, then throwing one gas canister in the room where Kate was, and then Kate falling on the floor loosing consciousness. She looked very lucid to me before the whole gas thing. Sometimes people read TOO hard into it. Besides, does it matter if it was something in the food or the gas? Does it change anything important in the plot?

And yes, I do believe the 'tear gas' knocked her out. Perhaps in the real world of Lost, that company makes 'knockout gas' too! After all, the writers came up with a new species of spider just for this show...Why not have ALS Technologies Inc. manufacture KNOCKOUT GAS also?

Yes, what you say makes sense. But it is weird, isn't it, that they showed us a canister of TEAR GAS? I mean, I am absolutely positive that they would not have used the tear gas for real with Evangeline Lilly in the room. I could see how maybe the props people might have put in a can of, say, a smoke bomb. Or some innocuous other sort of thing. But they NEVER would gas their actress with real tear gas. Of course not. Plus, Kate did not portray a person who was experiencing any of the effects of tear gas.

So then this begs the question: WHY did they show us the canister of tear gas?

They could have easily slapped a label on the can that would have said "Dharma Knockout Gas", or something like that... But they didn't. And they could have not shown a closeup of the gas cannister at all - or could have just shown the cannister but not the label. But they CLEARLY showed us it was a can of tear gas, but then made Kate act as if it wasn't tear gas at all....

So what gives?

I also understand what you are saying, but we already know how many mistakes the LOST prop crew have made in the past. Do we all remember the mysterious hand next to the Kate's horse scene? Or what about the White Van on the Goodwin and AL Scene? I think this is just one more of these unintentional 'mistakes'. Not a big deal. Besides, can all these written details on the can be seen on a regular TV set so most fans can notice them?
Besides. I also think that the Lost production and this company made a commercial deal to promote their products on the show. If they would have put a Smoke or Knockout gas label on THEIR canister, it would have been false advertisement.
Of course, you can always see it the other way around... Kate reacting like she did to a tear gas would be false advertisement too... Oh, well... Perhaps they don't care.

I also understand what you are saying, but we already know how many mistakes the LOST prop crew have made in the past. Do we all remember the mysterious hand next to the Kate's horse scene? Or what about the White Van on the Goodwin and AL Scene? I think this is just one more of these unintentional 'mistakes'. Not a big deal. Besides, can all these written details on the can be seen on a regular TV set so most fans can notice them?
Besides. I also think that the Lost production and this company made a commercial deal to promote their products on the show. If they would have put a Smoke or Knockout gas label on THEIR canister, it would have been false advertisement.
Of course, you can always see it the other way around... Kate reacting like she did to a tear gas would be false advertisement too... Oh, well... Perhaps they don't care.

I think you've hit the nail on the head Fierro! Yes, the can of tear gas was just some can the prop crew threw into the scene in order to give people the idea that Kate was being gassed and that the gas was some sort of knockout gas. End of story. It doesn't matter that the tear gas cannister was manufactured by a real life company, nor that there is no such thing as knockout gas. We should just take it at face value...

I think you've hit the nail on the head Fierro! Yes, the can of tear gas was just some can the prop crew threw into the scene in order to give people the idea that Kate was being gassed and that the gas was some sort of knockout gas. End of story. It doesn't matter that the tear gas cannister was manufactured by a real life company, nor that there is no such thing as knockout gas. We should just take it at face value...
Yep, just like the spiders...

Yep, just like the spiders...

Or the piece of paper lying on the seat in the van under Roger's skull... ;)