Look further down the thread to see my correction to this original post. Sorry I misheard Locke when he said to Kate, "Forgiveness isn't one of THEIR strong suits." I thought he said it "isn't one of YOUR strong suits."
original post:
<Do you think Locke belittles Kate's forgiveness skills because he made a pact w/ the Others, as long as they don't hurt his Dad? Maybe the Others are playing on this weakness of Locke's. Then he says to Kate, "Good luck," like he honestly hopes she learns to forgive, and will therefore be alright.>

Do you think Locke belittles Kate's forgiveness skills because he made a pact w/ the Others, as long as they don't hurt his Dad? Maybe the Others are playing on this weakness of Locke's. Then he says to Kate, "Good luck," like he honestly hopes she learns to forgive, and will therefore be alright.

I do not think Locke decision to go with the others have anything to do with his dad. The man tried to kill him, and cause him to be in a wheel chair for 4 years. I do not think Locke care if they hurt his dad, or not. Locke has been wanting to join the others since the first time he met Ben,and Ben told him that they were coming for him. It possible that Locke might have already learned about the others and how they were living , from Ethan, since Locke is the only one who spent time with Ethan. Locke wants to learn more about the island,and Ben wants to learn why Locke is heal, and he isn't . so it's a trade off.

But I do wonder what they did with Locke dad? He's not a good person, so I do not think he would be on Jacob's list.

I'd bet you're right about the trade-off. I don't guess even Locke could keep forgiving his dad. Maybe he wants Kate to forgive herself?!:undecide:

Do you think Locke belittles Kate's forgiveness skills because he made a pact w/ the Others, as long as they don't hurt his Dad? Maybe the Others are playing on this weakness of Locke's. Then he says to Kate, "Good luck," like he honestly hopes she learns to forgive, and will therefore be alright.
I might have gotten the scene wrong, but didn't Locke say something like "Forgiveness isn't their strong side", meaning that the Others weren't able to forgive Kate for something, presumably for what she did pre-island? Until I read this, I didn't have the impression that Kate's skills at forgiveness had anything to do with it.
However, I think the point is interesting. In the flashbacks, it has been shown over and over again how easily Locke can be manipulated when his weaknesses are played against him in a certain way. Also, the whole "the island is telling me what to do" hasn't always led to him making the best decisions.
But still I think that concerning Ben's actions, Locke should be aware that the man is as manipulative as they come. I don't think that Locke would allow himself to be played if he was aware of it. I'm just not entirely sure whether his father being brought into play has turned off all of Locke's senses that would alert him to his being played.

so, sorry, everyone. i had to blast the volume, but Locke did say, "forgiveness isn't one of THEIR strong suits." where were the captions tonite? this changes a lot to me! Locke's hand was maybe hurt from beating up his dad? And, maybe Locke IS on the mission the computer told him to do.

I highly doubt the Cooper story is going to be resolved as primitively as Locke beating the snot out of him. Besides, I don't think he is there because of Locke, anyway... he's there because of Sawyer.

It's definitely "Forgiveness isn't their strong suit." That being said, who in the world are they to need to forgive Kate? What she did pre-island didn't have anything to do with them, did it? Or are they the judge of everyone's worth now and that's what Jacob's list is about?

That's what I began to wonder before - what makes the Others capable of acting as the judge and jury?

I might have gotten the scene wrong, but didn't Locke say something like "Forgiveness isn't their strong side", meaning that the Others weren't able to forgive Kate for something, presumably for what she did pre-island? Until I read this, I didn't have the impression that Kate's skills at forgiveness had anything to do with it.
However, I think the point is interesting. In the flashbacks, it has been shown over and over again how easily Locke can be manipulated when his weaknesses are played against him in a certain way. Also, the whole "the island is telling me what to do" hasn't always led to him making the best decisions.
But still I think that concerning Ben's actions, Locke should be aware that the man is as manipulative as they come. I don't think that Locke would allow himself to be played if he was aware of it. I'm just not entirely sure whether his father being brought into play has turned off all of Locke's senses that would alert him to his being played.


The captions on my TV said "your" strong suite. But I also heard "your". Kate's reaction to the comment was that she also heard "your". Just mho....

D/

Unfortunately, I can't get captions for this epi for some reason. Now I'm really confused, as often happens with Lost! ;) I'd swear they single me out to mess with me on purpose!

It would make sense if it was "your." The point of Kate's flashback--other than trying to arbitrarily connect her to Sawyer--was that she wasn't sorry and never will be sorry. The point of Locke's flashbacks with Cooper have been filled with forgiveness. I can totally see Locke forgiving his Dad and that's what prompts the Otherst to take him along, possibly to see the original inhabitants of the Island. But, the bandage on his right hand makes me wonder a bit. Maybe he just beat the crap out of Cooper and then forgave him. After all the man did to Locke, I wouldn't say that would be entirely wrong.

It's definitely "Forgiveness isn't their strong suit." That being said, who in the world are they to need to forgive Kate? What she did pre-island didn't have anything to do with them, did it? Or are they the judge of everyone's worth now and that's what Jacob's list is about?


I think the others do know about the smoke monster, and in order to avoid him, they make a point of only gathering people together who truly good. People who haven't committed murder. (..could Jacob be the smoke monster?,or could he be connected to it?)Kate is a murderer. The others might not have wanted to take Kate along with them, because her being a killer might have attracted the smoke monster. That might also be the reason why the others dump Juliet, and Kate outside of the compound, in order not to attract the smoke monster.

My closed caps said "their strong suit"

My closed caps said "their strong suit"

Thank you....I didn't have it on. As to the title of the thread "Locks's weakness" isn't his weakness to be loved, be accepted as part of a whole ,basically wanting to "belong" and at this point it seems at no matter the cost. His destroying stations and submaries I'm afraid show that in his mind "his needs and wants" are more important than anyone else. Just MHO

The captions on my TV said "your" strong suite. But I also heard "your". Kate's reaction to the comment was that she also heard "your". Just mho....

D/
Captions being something like subtitles? Just asking, because I'm not familiar with the thing, and I've been wondering why some people's captions said "your" and some obviously "their".
"Their" makes more sense to me personally, but if Locke really said "your", I'm back to asking the same questions I asked before. What would be the point of Kate showing forgiveness in her pre-island life? We only know of one instance when she didn't show forgiveness, and that was towards Wayne beating her mother and terrorising the two of them. And what influence would Kate's ability (or not) at forgiveness have to do with what the others think about her? It all leads back to their motives, and to the question as to where they're going, why they're taking Locke with them and what will happen once the've arrived whereever they're going. It just keeps getting more and more and more confusing...