When they got to the fence she knew it was off ... because she turned it off!!! Tricky Juliet!

This gets me thinking- the Others turned off the fence so they could leave, right? But why not turn it back on? That way if any strangers want to come into Othersville, they will be killed. It will even keep Smokey from uprooting houses instead of trees. I think they left it off so Juliet and Kate could come back and get Jack because he was an integral part of the plan- to get the Losties to gain Juliet's trust.

If the fence was off, why did Patchy die when he crossed the line??? Mayby Patchy was somehow faking his death???
Why would the fence be off at all?
Juliet knew it was off and I did not see any lights or signals to indicate such. How would she know it was off???
It would seem you would want it on all the time to keep Smokey away.

Juliet turned it off so she and Kate could get to the other side of the fence. Then she turned it back on when smokey came forward.

I have not been following the show, but it seems like the barracks were still inhabited when Mikhail died, and the shield was on. In this most recent episode the place was totally vacant, and they presumably turned the shield off before they left.

If the fence was off, why did Patchy die when he crossed the line??? Mayby Patchy was somehow faking his death???
Why would the fence be off at all?
Juliet knew it was off and I did not see any lights or signals to indicate such. How would she know it was off???
It would seem you would want it on all the time to keep Smokey away.


The fence was off because if it was still on how is the heck could the Other's leave the barracks? The fence surrounds the barracks completly. So they had to turn it off on their way out. Simple as that. Nothing more extravagent as that.

I agree with Debisobsessed. Juliet turned off the fence when she originally brought Kate out into the jungle. This is how she knew it would still be off when they made their way back.

Juliet turned it off so she and Kate could get to the other side of the fence. Then she turned it back on when smokey came forward.
The way I see it is that the fence was already off when they got there. If the others left the barracks, they probably had to cross the fence, since it surrounds the whole village, so they had to turn it off in the first place. They probably didnt turn it back on because the access panel is on the inside. Juliet assumed that was the case since Kate told her they had packed and left. When we see Juliet inputing the numbers is not to turn off the fence, it's to unlock the lid to the dial thing, which is the real switch.

Wait, she brought Kate out into the Jungle? I know that she had a handcuff key, but I thought that she just always had one on her. When she said that she didn't want to be left behind again, that was explaining why she hadn't unlocked them earlier.

Why would she drag Kate out into the woods. I need some explanation on that please.

I agree with Debisobsessed. Juliet turned off the fence when she originally brought Kate out into the jungle. This is how she knew it would still be off when they made their way back.


Bingo!

I'm not sure if I buy that Juliette personally took Kate out into the woods, though I don't trust Juliette at all.

If the Others needed to turn off the fense to get out, that would debunk the tunnel system theorey, to which I am a subscriber, so I'm a little confused about this issue. One of the biggest things I took with me from this episode.

For me, I had three questions from the fense. 1)How did Juliette KNOW that the fense was off for sure? She seemed pretty confident considering if she was wrong, she was dead. 2)Was it really on when Mikhail went through. 3) Since the fense was off this time, but on when Mikhail went through it, doesn't that seem to indicate taht The Others knew that Kate, Sayid, and Locke were coming? That would add a whole other level of manipulation to the Locke/Ben angle.

Why would she drag Kate out into the woods. I need some explanation on that please.
It's the only option that makes sense. She's now able to infiltrate the Losties. She had the key, and she knew the fence was off, so it makes sense that she was in on the whole thing.

The way I see it is that the fence was already off when they got there..

I agree, it was off when they got there. But I think whether or not Ben & co left through the fence or through a tunnel in which they didn't need to turn it off, he wanted it off so Kate could safely return and retrieve Jack and Sayid so they'd have their barracks lostie-free if or when they want to go back there.

There were inconsistencies with the way the fence worked that I wrote off as creative license; i.e. Patchy walked into the fence barrier, yet smokey was repelled. The losties easily went over it, yet Juliet didn't seem to be worried that smokey would do the same.

It has to be the Others, not Juliet, who turned it off. Otherwise, how could they leave to go wherever they were going? Unless they used undergounrd tunnels.

I agree, it was off when they got there. But I think whether or not Ben & co left through the fence or through a tunnel in which they didn't need to turn it off, he wanted it off so Kate could safely return and retrieve Jack and Sayid so they'd have their barracks lostie-free if or when they want to go back there.

There were inconsistencies with the way the fence worked that I wrote off as creative license; i.e. Patchy walked into the fence barrier, yet smokey was repelled. The losties easily went over it, yet Juliet didn't seem to be worried that smokey would do the same.
Patchy was a human being. Smokie is not. Their reactions to sound waves might be very different. In regards to this, perhaps that's the reason why the fence uses sound and not electricity to protect the perimeter. It's been long theorized that smokie's nature might be electromagnetic. You cant fight fire with fire;) .
Perhaps this fence acts more like an invisible fence for dogs. Whenever smokies touches the plane between two pilons, something activates within itself and doesn't let it go any further.

It has to be the Others, not Juliet, who turned it off. Otherwise, how could they leave to go wherever they were going? Unless they used undergounrd tunnels.
I think they all left at the same time, actually. Juliet drug Kate into the jungle at the same time the others left.

Oh, and Jack was only playing unconscious.

Maybe Juliet knew it was off because there is a way to tell by looking at the right spot or because she didn't hear the underlying hum that must exist when its on. The fence was obviously on when Patchy died because we heard the sonic vibrations when he crossed it. My theory is that the Others (at least some of them) had to leave through the fence, therefore it had to be turned off, certainly at least while they were dumping Kate and Juliet in the jungle.

It's the only option that makes sense. She's now able to infiltrate the Losties. She had the key, and she knew the fence was off, so it makes sense that she was in on the whole thing.

I agree and Kate knows it too. So why is Kate ok with Juliet going back to camp? And for God's sake, why don't they stick around and look for stuff???? Juliet knows the place, its got electricity, SHOWERS, PILLOWS, food, and evidently a lot of other stuff like gas masks, knock-out gas canisters and maybe even boats or a sub. But no, they are going to leave the place, with the proven liar and Other Juliet, and walk back to live on a beach. If the writers keep having the characters act against what any normal person would do, their going to loose credibility and believability.

It was interesting though to see Juliet drop her pretending when smokey appeared. Nice to see an Other scared to death like that for once... :^) And Juliet saying "We don't know what it is but this fence seems to keep it out" rings hollow. If they could develop a fence to keep it out they could have developed a weapon to kill it or they could have trapped it. I'm convinced Juliet knows a lot more and I do not plan to trust a thing she says or does from now on.

But I'll stick with the theory that the Others (Juliet) need to get people to WANT to do things. I just don't know what Juliet wants someone to want to do, but she was certainly pulling a Ben by manipulating Kate. Maybe she wants Kate to give up on Jack by convincing her Jack is not interested in her. Remember, Juliet would not know that Jack quietly told Kate that when he left he would come back for her. So Kate knows Jack cares. Juliet only knows Jack saw Kate and Sawyer together and Jack's willingness to leave without Kate. So is Juliet trying to break Jack and Kate apart? Was that the whole reason for season 3, locking Kate and Sawyer in cages, Jack in a tank, the hard labor, helping Kate leave to gain her trust and not a real Other, Showing Jack her mark, etc? It seems all of this season has lead to Juliet becoming a Lostie and pushing herself in the middle of Jack/Kate. Why? To win Jack's heart? As usual, more questions than answers...

Perhaps most of the Others used the tunnel system to get out of the barracks, but someone had stayed inside the barracks to turn the barriers off. This could have been part of Ben's plan knowing that Kate and Juliet would come back to the barracks to retrieve Jack. So if this is the case, Juliet was in on it and that is why she knew the sonic barrier was down.

Perhaps Mikhail is a good mime???


Or maybe the fence works in one direction at a time. But then how did Smokey get inside the perimeter? So then the Others having turned off the fence seems most logical.

And for God's sake, why don't they stick around and look for stuff???? Juliet knows the place, its got electricity, SHOWERS, PILLOWS, food, and evidently a lot of other stuff like gas masks, knock-out gas canisters and maybe even boats or a sub. But no, they are going to leave the place, with the proven liar and Other Juliet, and walk back to live on a beach. If the writers keep having the characters act against what any normal person would do, their going to loose credibility and believability.
No doubt -- electricity, running water, shelter, food, AND protection against the security system.

Inconceivable!
100%
IAnd Juliet saying "We don't know what it is but this fence seems to keep it out" rings hollow. If they could develop a fence to keep it out they could have developed a weapon to kill it or they could have trapped it. I'm convinced Juliet knows a lot more and I do not plan to trust a thing she says or does from now on.
Actually, it makes sense if you believe the place was built by DHARMA and the others simply commandeered it.

If you stick just to the content of the episode then it should be:

Juliet drags Kate out into the jungle
Juliet turns off the fence
Juliet continues to drag Kate further into the jungle
Juliet lays Kate down and then locks the two of them together
Juliet then waits for Kate to wake up, hoping to bond with Kate on some level/play with her mind

Juliet then waits for Kate to wake up, hoping to bond with Kate on some level/play with her mind
Sounds naughty! ;)

So Juliet wasn't gassed?
How did she know the fence was off?
Do the Others know what the monster is?
Why wasn't she afraid of the monster?

So Juliet wasn't gassed?
How did she know the fence was off?
Do the Others know what the monster is?
Why wasn't she afraid of the monster?


1) She was gassed?
2) ?
3) No, she said that they didn't know what it was.
4) Because she knew that it couldn't cross the fence.

1) She was gassed?
2) ?
3) No, she said that they didn't know what it was.
4) Because she knew that it couldn't cross the fence.

Who's plan was it to cuff her to Kate and take her into the middle of the jungle?

"Ben likes playing mind games"

Obviously not Juliet's.

I don't think the fence was on when Patchy went across. If the Losties were able to go over, Smokey would have been able to go over.

So Juliet wasn't gassed?
How did she know the fence was off?
Do the Others know what the monster is?
Why wasn't she afraid of the monster?

1- No. I don't believe Juliet was gassed AND I believe someone helped her dump Kate in the jungle.
2- Because she's still an other
3- They know of the monster and that it scans people's memories and judges them. I don't believe they know how to control it but try to avoid it. It seemed smokey caught up and scanned Juliet last night.
4- She was. That's why they went through the fence and activated it.

So they leave the key with her?

I don't think the fence was on when Patchy went across. If the Losties were able to go over, Smokey would have been able to go over.


That's what I've been wondering myself.

"Ben likes playing mind games"

Obviously not Juliet's.


But we know Juliette lies, it's difficult to take her word for it, especially if she lays the blame on Ben.

So Juliet wasn't gassed?
How did she know the fence was off?
Do the Others know what the monster is?
Why wasn't she afraid of the monster?

Even if she was completely truthful with Kate, she may have woken up first. Kate woke up a day before Jack and Sayid.

She'd have turned the fence off when she was carrying Kate outside of it (if the leaving Others hadn't already turned it off).

If she's telling the truth, they don't.

She was. She ran like hell to get back behind the fence.

Was there a similar noise when Patchy was pushed through as there was last night when Smokey was repelled?

1. i doubt she was. she retrieved her key too easily if she had been gassed to sit there cuffed to a woman and even end up getting her shoulder popped when she could have been free. it was a setup to build a relationship with Kate and to deter her from future "rescue missions" of interference with their plans, imo

2. she is aware the others planned on leaving. knowing they are venturing the island outside of their perimeter, it had to have been off for them to go whereever they were going with Locke. as Eight above me put it: she's still an other, imo

3. They know of its existence but honestly dont know what it is. i got the impression that Juliet was testing its capabilities w/ their fence for research purposes when she said somthing like "now we know it doesnt like our fence" (horrible paraphrase). i believe this rouse included them expecting Juliet & Kate to run into it, imo

4. she knows the specifics of the fence's operation and had faith it could stop anything that passes thru it, including a global-warming-inducing-black-cloud-that-takes-pictures-of-chained-wet-females-in-jungles. Smokie is a perv, imo

thats how i look at it, i expect to be wrong on all points though

P.Stone

1. I don't think she was gassed. Why bother gassing and cuffing someone only to put the key in the person's pocket? Jack was gassed, Sayid was gassed and Kate was gassed to hide the truth from those three about how Kate woke up in the jungle.

2. The fence isn't protecting anyone anymore...they all left. Maybe they simply shut it off on their way out? Maybe she's the one who shut it off?

3 . I don't think they know exactly what it is, just what it is capable of. I think Juliet was somehow able to block the monster's "scanning". I think the flashes were a "scan error" of sorts. The Others may have figured out a way to keep it at bay.

4. I think she was startled, possibly afraid; but not terrified like Kate. Juliet knows she can survive the monster somehow, but Kate cannot. Furthermore, Kate may now feel indebted to Juliet for saving her life. That would be useful to Juliet back at Lostaway Bay.

All signs point to Juliet knowing a heckuva lot more than what she appeared to know when the episode started:

1. She wasn't groggy when she "woke up" and she reacted like she was well aware of what was happening.

2. Juliet had a key the whole time and knew it. If she didn't want to be "left behind" why not just head back to the barracks where Jack is?

3. She knew Jack and Sayid were back at the ranch. She says it before she and Kate go in the houses.

4. Juliet, on the opposite side of the fence and not in its eyeline, knew exactly where the code box was and what the code was to turn it on.

5. Bigger still, Juliet knew the fence was off!

6. Juliet knows that Smokey grabs its prey and tosses him/her to death. Why else would she be so quick to uncuff herself from Kate. She was worried she would be tossed around too if Smokey got Kate.

7. If the above is true, then Juliet knows where the Others went. She was with them when they dragged Kate. She was given the key. She knew the fence was off. She's in on their plan. She was given her instructions.


And, on top of that, I think Jack was also not gassed. As mentioned in previous posts, he was out for the count for way too long. And why would his room be smashed up? It all looked staged.

However, I do believe he is playing along until the time is right...

We know that

1. the fence was not on - and we can probably assume that since Juliet and Kate were laying right outside of it - that Juliet had to have gone through it. Which I don't buy that Juliet was gassed.

2. Juliet keyed on the fence and told Kate she had to come over (probably because she would get zapped if she was on the other side.

3. Smokey didn't cross the fence. Juliet had to turn it on to start the fence. She did it through a keypad on the inside of the fence.

So they leave the key with her?

This is really the issue.

Are we suppose to believe that The Otheres just slipped the key into her pocket, and she just happened to find it at exactly the right time??? Yeah right. She knew that she was going out there with Kate.

My pet theory is that The Others were having a tough time deciding whether or not Kate is actually a good person. The scene with Locke supports this. We also saw in this episode that Juliet isn't afraid of the monster, If she was she would have dipped instead of keeping up the whole "what was that thing?" act. So, Juliet was the perfect cantidate to go out into the jungle with Kate, where Smokey could show whether or not she's a good person.

This is really starting to sound like a Ben Master Plan that was set in motion with the homemade video, the trial, Jack's intervention and the subsequent branding of Juliet. All of that was to gain Jack's sympathy and support.

Now Juliet is working on Kate.

And, good luck with Sayid.

One thing:

When Locke described the monster didn't he say it was beautiful?

When the monster saw Juliet it scanned her and it was wierd - bright light almost like a picture flash.

Smokey wasn't going to kill Juliet. But it might kill Kate. I agree she took the Kuffs off because Kate wouldn't go across the fence.

The other thing was - she knows what Smokey is and she knows it won't hurt her. It looks like it didn't like it when Kate hurt Juliet.

It looks like it didn't like it when Kate hurt Juliet.


Now that's something.... I didn't connect those dots. It would be very interesting if that was the case.

1. She wasn't groggy when she "woke up" and she reacted like she was well aware of what was happening.

thanks for bringing this up. it helps the theory of it being a well conceived plan to get Kate's trust on her side. when she woke up (un groggy) she quickly grabs Kate's wrist. when Kate asks her to let go, she does which seems to surprise Kate since she is still weilding the knife

6. Juliet knows that Smokey grabs its prey and tosses him/her to death. Why else would she be so quick to uncuff herself from Kate. She was worried she would be tossed around too if Smokey got Kate.

the only reason she uncuffed herself quickly was to get inside the perimeter and activate it, not because Smokie is known to thrash people like dolls. that hasnt been confirmed as its only method of attack yet but its obvious she did that to have it test the threshold of the perimeter.

P.Stone

Great thread! I agree that something is fishy about Juliet and the Monster. Here are some possibilities to consider:

*I noticed again that the Smoke monster seems to appear during moments of tension and conflict (the same was true of Charlie and Eko)...

*Those flashes could have been of Juliet's fear...

*They also could be her mind overloading Smokey's sensors...

*Also, someone could have intervened to throw Smokey off just as it was about to attack the two...

*That someone could be Ben, who I believe may secretly exert some control over Smokey...

Finally, I urge folks to read the whispers and hidden audio associated with Smokey over in the general theories forum. The dialogue during the first night on the beach and at the cockpit sure sounds like the Others to me...

1.We don't know if she was gassed, but didn't she say that she was handcuffed with Kate because she didn't want to be "Left Behind"? or alone or something.

2. I haven't looked at the map again, but it might be a different sector of the fence.

3. I don't think she has ever seen the monster.

4. I think she knew what it could do, as she told Kate she would want to be on her side of the fence and I think she knows now.

the only reason she uncuffed herself quickly was to get inside the perimeter and activate it, not because Smokie is known to thrash people like dolls. that hasnt been confirmed as its only method of attack yet but its obvious she did that to have it test the threshold of the perimeter.

P.Stone

You're probably right, it makes more sense, but my gut reaction to it was that there didn't seem to be any struggle on Juliet's part. Her reaction seemed more like "I have got to separate myself from this chick." And then she looked at the monster without fear, as if she knew the monster wasn't there for her...

But, I concede that I may be over-thinking it!:undecide:

I didn't notice they were behind the fence lol, sorry

What exactly did Juliet say to Kate about the fence being off? I vaguely remember Mikhail trying to convince them it hadn't worked in years...

I actually hadn't caught this while watching Left Behind, I just assumed Juliet ran over and shut it off and then closed it before Smokey got there. (Realizing now that would be impossible)

I'd think it's fairly obvious, in my mind at least, that the fence was on while our gang and patchy were headed for otherville ... and by the same reasoning, it was off after the others abandoned town - undecided at this point if Juliet dragged Kate outside the perimeter or the others dragged both out as they were leaving ... and while I fully support the underground tunnels theory, I haven't seen anything to suggest that the camp was connected to these tunnels... but that's another story...
..so it was on as the losties approached, the others turned it off as they left, and Juliet turned it on again as she and Kate came back.
... this makes me wonder though, why Ethan and Goodwin didn't have someone to 'lock the door behind them' as they left to find the wreckage?
..and obviously, Juliet's crossing the line without a second thought makes me very suspicious - although as mentioned before, there could certainly be a light or sound that us viewers are unfamiliar with that would have told her that the fence was off..

I think if the Others left it off and Juliette turned it back on, the Others will return and not know it's armed. Maybe Ben will walk right into the armed fence and drop a load in his pants!

e-sp

Perhaps this is a stretch, but maybe smokey is ground/island based and loses power or dissipates if it gets to far from the ground/island?

Even with Juliet's newly displayed fighting skills, it would seem that she would have needed help to drag Kate out into the jungle. Anyone catch any references to just how far away from the barracks Kate and Juliet were when Kate woke up?

Can anyone tell me why RED would mean on and GREEN would mean off?
100%
Perhaps this is a stretch, but maybe smokey is ground/island based and loses power or dissipates if it gets to far from the ground/island?


This is my thinking.
If you watch close, the trees are PUSHED out of the ground. I think Smokey can't leave the ground.

Don't know how to quote Poser but this also happened when they entered the pearl I believe. Locke hit the red button to turn the lights on. I thought that was strange because its so obvious.

I think the fence was built to keep Smokey out. We've already seen how easily the beachies circumvented the fence since it's so clearly visible and weird-looking. But Smokey just ran into it like dog or other animal would. Maybe that's why Juliet had no idea what the monster was (unless she was faking ignorance?): the monster is kept away from The Others by the fence.

So would that mean the monster is NOT on the Others's side? Maybe it's Dharma? Or just The Island?

So Juliet wasn't gassed?
How did she know the fence was off?
Do the Others know what the monster is?
Why wasn't she afraid of the monster?

Why does everyone keep saying she wasn't afraid of the monster... she looked terrified and she was backing away from it even when she was BEHIND the fence. :confused:

I think the fence is old Dharma, and that it is meant to keep the monster/Cerebus/Smokey/Paparazzi? out, or in, if you will. I mean that is a big ol' heavy duty metal fence. The village is nice -- electricity, lawns, stucco -- but it's not anywhere near as industrial looking as Dharma's hatches/uniforms/foodstuffs. I don't know about Mikhail. I feel like his death was for real, but it was a tad theatrical. I also think that the pilot was up pretty high when the monster snatched him out of the cockpit, and it was the tops of the trees that were smashing around in season 1 -- it seems like Smokey can go pretty high, like, OVER the fence. Or maybe that's why there's no trees around the fenceline, so that all humans (that smokey is attracted to) are at ground level. I don't know. The more I see this monster, the more frustrated I become.

I'm like Sayid -- I WANT TO KNOW EVERYTHING.

We'll see.

1. Why would a Wookiee, an eight-foot tall Wookiee, want to live on Endor, with a bunch of two-foot tall Ewoks? That does not make sense!

2. But more important, you have to ask yourself: What does this have to do with this case? Nothing. Ladies and gentlemen, it has nothing to do with this case! It does not make sense!

3. Look at me. I'm a lawyer defending a major record company, and I'm talkin' about Chewbacca! Does that make sense? Ladies and gentlemen, I am not making any sense! None of this makes sense!

4. And so you have to remember, when you're in that jury room deliberatin' and conjugatin' the Emancipation Proclamation, does it make sense? No! Ladies and gentlemen of this supposed jury, it does not make sense!

5. If Chewbacca lives on Endor, you must aquit! The defense rests.

I think red would mean stop and green would mean go.. kinda like traffic lights.
Also, they probably didn't stay to look around just in case they the others came back and recaptured them or whatever. But the fact remains that Juliet is SOO lying and jack is going to be made out to be the dupe who got everyone else screwed. But we always have sayid!

jack was still passed out a day later because he was in a tight confined space with no new air while kate got fresh air. that's why jack was still passed out.

Okay here's my thoughts on many of these concerns.

Smokey can leave the ground, in the pilot, when jack looks up at the plane, smokey flies past, smokey also flies past Jack a cuple more times during this crash scene. It can fly. Go back and watch the pilot, the part where Jack stops and looks up at the wing I think it is, smokey zooms past, its almost as if Jack is acknowledging the smokey.

The fence is turned on and off from inside the perimeter, therefore the others turned it off as they passed through it, assuing they would eventually return and turn it back on when they did so. Juliette knows this as well, as she is OTHERS trained, but I do not think she is still with the others, despite the evidence pointed out against her.

Juliette lived with the unforgiving others, and had to be constantly guarded with her actions and words, that does not go away instantly, I think she is sincerely afraid of being alone, but still has the other mindset with her. Who does she trust, who will trust her?

How would Kate have reacted had Juliette just said oh wait, here, I have the handcuff keys in my pocket. Think about it, juliette was in an awkward position, perhaps in one Ben intended for her as punishment.

I do not think Jack was faking being unconscious. Jack was inside a closed area, where the gas could linger for hours before dissapating. Kate and Juliette were taken outdoors where the effects would not linger and they would regain consciousness much faster than one confined would.

Smokey is not dead. He just departed the area. Not sure why a lot of people think smokey died from the fence, he didn't.

As for smokey breaking into different parts, watch the pilot again and slow motion the entire thing, there is a part where jack is kneeling down and several bits and pieces of smokey zoom over him and behind him.


Jack is pissed that he lost his ticket off the island. He didn't reassure kate when she apologized, because, well she F'd up his chance of leaving.

Jack is still Jack, just a tad bitter at the moment.

Juliette has no allies other than Jack, which I think she and Jack did bond somewhat. And Jack even protected her when asked if she really wanted Ben dead. Jack is always looking for someone to protect, and now he has Juliette.

Sayid doesn't trust anyone, remember his torturing Sawyer?

Sayid does not have the best instincts, he has been wrong before, but he is pretty keen overall, I think he has an instant mistrust for Juliette because of the fact she was an other.

Thats pretty much my thoughts on all of it.

From what I've seen, the most recent podcast confirms that Juliet does indeed know more re Smokey than she let on...

Good call everyone!

I'm glad someone started this thread...this has been bothering me since I saw the epi. Whether she's telling the truth or lying, her story sucks! I mean, if Kate is to believe her, then Juliet was gassed too, right? Then when exactly did Juliet handcuff herself to Kate? This makes no sense to me either way.

Along the same lines...why couldn't Smokey just go OVER the fence like Kate, Locke, Sayid and Rosseau did?

Along the same lines...why couldn't Smokey just go OVER the fence like Kate, Locke, Sayid and Rosseau did?
Yeah, I was wondering that too. I guess Smokey doesn't like having to work too hard to get his prey. ;)

But Juliet obviously was/is on Ben's plan. However, I doubt Jack is. Both Jack AND Sayid were unconscious all that time because of being in an enclosed space like someone previously said. Now, some people seem to love the idea that Jack has gone bad, but I highly doubt Jack could be turned so easily. If he was working with the Others, it was only to find a way off the island. And if he was with them since the beginning, we wouldn't have seen the scenes of him being their prisoner. So, I'm pretty dead set that he's exactly the same Jack we've always known: consummate hero with an arrogant temper. ;) But definitely not a spy.

this whole "what does blondie know"
reeks of ben and another of his plans.

perhaps he got blondie to do this in exchange
for her freedom.

i wouldn't put it past him to take advantage
of the situation.

Smokey definitely reacted both times to one person causing another person pain. The second Kate popped J's shoulder (or to be more specific, when she APOLIGIZED) we hear the monster wake up. The second time was when J broke Kates heart during the "I Know More About Jack" game.

Can anyone tell me why RED would mean on and GREEN would mean off?
100%



This is my thinking.
If you watch close, the trees are PUSHED out of the ground. I think Smokey can't leave the ground.
Red would mean on because you are supposed to stop. Green would indicate it is safe to go - safe to cross the fence.

The title suggests that Patchy was killed by the fence. There is a likelihood that this did occur. However, where was his body when Juliet and Kate crossed over? I don't remember seeing it and the two didn't seem to notice the body either. Hm...

i dont see how he could fake all that blood and foam out of his mouth. He could not of been that prepared for it. Also i always thought the smokey monster was created by dharma to be used as a security system. It doesnt make sense they would need protection from their own creation. It has to of been on the island a long time before dharma or maybe dharma lost control of the smoke monster and now needed protection from it and started building this fence.

He was obviously gravely affected, but we don't know if he is absolutely, 100% dead.

if the fence encompasses as large of an area as it seems, it would make sense that no single switch would turn off the entire perimeter. perhaps that switch only powered down one area, for entry and exit.

i dont see how he could fake all that blood and foam out of his mouth. He could not of been that prepared for it. Also i always thought the smokey monster was created by dharma to be used as a security system. It doesnt make sense they would need protection from their own creation. It has to of been on the island a long time before dharma or maybe dharma lost control of the smoke monster and now needed protection from it and started building this fence.


Using strange thing spotted on his ear only for a split sec (http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/9683/mikhailpf0.jpg)might have helped.Maybe it was a special prop for emitting blood and foam.The Others had beards and theatrical glue ,i cant see why they couldnt have devices for fake blood too.!
Its semi-canon,that Mikhail is not dead.Ireally hope thats the case and he only played dead for preventing our Losties from crossing the perimeter.This was discussed throroughly back in Par Avion so im not gonna reheat a stale soup(talk about graphic eh?:cool:)Well,now that we're sure that the perimeter keeps smokie far from Otherville(''we know that it doesnt like our fences'')we can also assume that it was built for this reason too.So it couldnt have killed Mikhail as its prolly not even made for humans.And this d also explain the lack of animal carcasses by the fence.On the other hand,if it was only for smokie and not a threat against people,Juliet wouldnt keep telling Kate nto to worry cos its ''off''.Whatever the case might be,beware the wrath of Mikhail ,for hes coming to get us!

This gets me thinking- the Others turned off the fence so they could leave, right? But why not turn it back on? That way if any strangers want to come into Othersville, they will be killed. It will even keep Smokey from uprooting houses instead of trees. I think they left it off so Juliet and Kate could come back and get Jack because he was an integral part of the plan- to get the Losties to gain Juliet's trust.


Well,if they turned it off before abandoning Otherville and didnt leave through underground tunnels,it wouldnt be that safe to turn it on again.I mean how could they even turn it on from the outside of the perimeter?its like lockin the drawer and throw the key in it too!uncanny!ill go with Juliet.She turned it off when dragged Kate into the jungle with her to make her feel whatever sHe was trying to make her feel!

I don't think Patchy wore a blood-spewing prop just to fool the Losties. I think he was seriously disabled and physically hurt, but not to the point of death. Someone probably turned off the fence and fetched him after Locke told Ben that they'd killed him.

I don't think there is any way she could drag Kate all the way out there by herself and turn off the fence. I think it was an elaborate set up. The group helped her position Kate then said they would leave the fence off for her. Is Patchy dead ? I don't think so. Maybe injured, but I think he's as dead as Mrs. Kluge. Fake as the beards and the fake village.

The obvious solution is that THERE IS NO WAY TO TURN IT OFF FROM OUTSIDE THE FENCE. they have to turn it off to get out, to have it turned on when juliet got there would mean that there would have to have been someone on the inside to turn it back on.

I've got an idea. How do we know that there's only one fence? Maybe there's one around Otherville, and another one that doesn't keep Smokey out, but in. Maybe it's a cage. This would explain why Patchy died.

I've got an idea. How do we know that there's only one fence? Maybe there's one around Otherville, and another one that doesn't keep Smokey out, but in. Maybe it's a cage. This would explain why Patchy died.
Yeah,youre right!:)after all Jules said ''we dont know what it is but we know it doesnt like our fences''she used plural tense there,so its somewhat obvious!!!!!

I don't think so. Maybe injured, but I think he's as dead as Mrs. Kluge. Fake as the beards and the fake village.
Mikhail is not dead IMHO because theres something weird going on with the fence.Not fully operational etc.But Mrs Klugh not being dead?I cant see how thats possible.She was shot,so IMHO its kind of certain that she died!

I think the whole thing with Juliet and Kate is a setup, and she turned the fence off as part of the whole master plan behind what we seen.

My theory is this, the Others for some reason feel the need to evacuate their quaint little village. They (including Juliet) put on their gas masks and knock out the losties so they do not know what is going on, or follow the losties. Once the losties are knocked out the others leave through some underground tunnels (the reason for no sign of them leaving). The entrances for these tunnels happen to be located in one of the buildings. My guess would be the building Kate is located in, and would explain the need for the gas masks. After the Others have all gone Juliet hauls Kate into the jungle turning off the fence as she leaves. She then handcufs herself to Kate and waits for her to wake up. Once she wakes up they make their way back to Otherville and find the other losties(Juliet happens to know where they all are). With the bond that she has made with Jack (the leader at the beach) he will not question why she would want to come with them back to the beach. They then head back to the losties beach so that Juliet the fertility Doc can check out Aaron and the baby Sun is carrying now. Hell they have taken all the children so far, why havent they been able to get these two?

As for why, im as lost as any of us.

I have no problem with the idea of the fence being turned off so that Kate/Juliette could come back to get Sayid and Jack, and maybe also in case Jack woke up and decided to take off so he wouldn't fry himself. I do think it's VERY strange that Ben would basically hand Juliette over to the Losties, whether she's in exhile or not, because she would presumably have a lot of information about the Others. We've seen from Mikhail and Klugh that the Other's are under orders to kill themselves if captured to protect their secrets, and Ben knows that the Losties are willing to torture to get answers. I guess Ben and Juliette would be counting on Jack to protect Juliette then.

I have no problem with the idea of the fence being turned off so that Kate/Juliette could come back to get Sayid and Jack, and maybe also in case Jack woke up and decided to take off so he wouldn't fry himself. I do think it's VERY strange that Ben would basically hand Juliette over to the Losties, whether she's in exhile or not, because she would presumably have a lot of information about the Others. We've seen from Mikhail and Klugh that the Other's are under orders to kill themselves if captured to protect their secrets, and Ben knows that the Losties are willing to torture to get answers. I guess Ben and Juliette would be counting on Jack to protect Juliette then.

excellent remark!!!but the real question here is ,does she *really* know that much!!!shes just a pawn and not a leader,so she prolly leaves in the dark as well!she and ben had somewhat of a brawl,that we know for sure(TPTB).now if she is planted and a mole,i really dont know.My guess is yup!

Good points too, Maria! I'll guess we'll have to wait and see :D

Or...

1) Ben doesn't care. Wherever Ben, Locke and the Others are going, Juliet doesn't know and the Losties are unlikely to find. So Juliet can talk all she wants as far as Ben is concerned

OR

2) Juliet has a specific task and is going to be rescued by the Others in a couple of days. Much like Ben knew he only had to fake being Henry Gale for a few days before Michael came to rescue him, Juliet might know wshe only has to spin her tale of deceit for a few days before Ben sends someone to get her.

OR

3) Juliet is as well-trained as Ben in resisting torture and Ben is confident that Juliet will not reveal anything.

Personally, I favor explanation #1.

I kind of favour your #1 idea too Marksman, it would certainly set up the next level of Lost if the Others are going somewhere mystical and Juliette doesn't know. I do get the feeling Ben doesn't much care about Jack, Kate and Sayid anymore. And I never got the impression Ben gave a damn about the stations Dharma left behind, he never seemed too choked up about leaving the Hydra, or when the Flame blew up, or when the Swan imploded. I definately think they are going in a special direction kind of free from worldy concerns.