just curious if any of you have any insights into that.. do you think Ben and Juliet had this in the works before or after Locke made the submarine go kablooie! ...as in, did Juliet know she wasn't leaving yet...

I got the sense it was after by the gasmask. It looked like the next day when they gassed Kate and took off with gasmasks. She had one too, s she was plotting the "left behind" con which was after the sub explosion. My guess is Ben made her a new promise of freedom in exchange for more cooperation.

That what I thought originally, too, PJ. But then I thought it would be really interesting if it was before the sub blew up. Because right before we saw that FB, we saw Jack telling Juliet that he trusted her because she was left behind too. So what is the sub being blown up was all part of the con too? We know that Ben manipulates Locke. What if he counted on Locke blowing up the sub, and Juliet's fake plan to escape on the sub was all cooked up at that table discussion with Ben?

That what I thought originally, too, PJ. But then I thought it would be really interesting if it was before the sub blew up. Because right before we saw that FB, we saw Jack telling Juliet that he trusted her because she was left behind too. So what is the sub being blown up was all part of the con too? We know that Ben manipulates Locke. What if he counted on Locke blowing up the sub, and Juliet's fake plan to escape on the sub was all cooked up at that table discussion with Ben?

But how did Ben know Locke was on his way with explosives? I think he counted on Locke to blow up the sub, but only once Locke arrived there. I'm just not sure how Ben could have manipulated that many steps ahead to get Sayid, Locke and Kate to go out there, find the Flame, take the C4 and find the barracks. I can't see all that being planned.

I think this is more likely Ben's Plan B to keep Juliet on the hook and keep his own plans in order. He still wants something from the Losties and it may have to do with Aaron.

I'm going to take the flashbacks at face value and say that more than anything Juliet wants to get off the island and everything she is doing to help the Others is in furtherance of that goal. I don't think she would make a plan with Ben to blow up the sub if she wants off as badly as she seems to as the flashbacks suggest. I think she made this deal with Ben afterwards because he is still promising her freedom despite the loss of the sub.

Yes, you very well could be right. But sometimes I just get the feeling that Ben is just plain omniescient or something. Like he's not just conning--he actually does know more than one person should be capable of knowing.

I got the sense it was after by the gasmask. It looked like the next day when they gassed Kate and took off with gasmasks. She had one too, s she was plotting the "left behind" con which was after the sub explosion. My guess is Ben made her a new promise of freedom in exchange for more cooperation.

I think Juliet , and Ben hatch their little plan "Before" they gas Kate, and Sayid. ( ..Notice I didn't mention Jack?). Ben gave Juliet the gasmask after they talk, which seem to indicated that the gassing hasn't taken place yet.