These folks are scary. But I'm perplexed at how they knew about Sawyer shooting Frank Duckett before he got on the plane. No one was around.

They know everything and I have a feeling they aren't going to let us in on their little secret of the all-knowingness anytime soon.

I was thinking that Smokey can not only scan the minds of people, the Others have a way to extract that information from Smokey.

How could the others possibly know about the woman Sayid tortured or about the man Sawyer shot? That goes far beyond simple record gathering...

I was wondering the same thing. I don't think anybody knew about the man Sawyer shot except Sawyer.

They must be using the BSM for some of their information. Now that we know Juliet is a liar, she could definitely have lied to Kate last episode when she downplayes what they knew about the BSM.

BSM... sorry I don't know what that is. *embarrased?*

BSM... sorry I don't know what that is. *embarrased?*



Me either, but I'm guessing black smoke monster. I want a prize if I win:biggrin:

That stumped me too. I hope they have a good explanation for their detailed knowledge. The smoke monster is a reasonable explanation but I wouldn't like to see that become the answer to every big mystery. It seems like giving the smoke monster a bunch of powers and using that as the answer to mysteries would kind of be taking an easy way out.

This is also being discussed here http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=75785 . It's titled "Mikhail's Video Feeds".
I think everyone's puzzled how they knew about Sawyer killing Frank the night before he left in an isolated parking lot when no one else was around. Does Mittelos have cameras everywhere?? Yikes!!! :eek2: :eek2:

This is also being discussed here http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=75785 . It's titled "Mikhail's Video Feeds".
I think everyone's puzzled how they knew about Sawyer killing Frank the night before he left in an isolated parking lot when no one else was around. Does Mittelos have cameras everywhere?? Yikes!!! :eek2: :eek2:Did Mikhail have a video of that??? :eek:

If these people were pre chosen, for whatever reason, as some have suspected since the beginning, then maybe they were all under surveillance up until they got on flight 815. It's a stretch, but the best I can come up with for now.

How could the others possibly know about the woman Sayid tortured ...
Did she specifically say the woman's name? I couldn't hear clearly, but I thought she named a city in Iraq, and not a woman's name.

Did she specifically say the woman's name? I couldn't hear clearly, but I thought she named a city in Iraq, and not a woman's name.

I believe she mentioned Basra, which is an Iraqi city.

Yes, it was Basra.

As for the Sawyer thing, there can only be three possible broad explanations:

1. Supernatural--smoke monster, psychics, reading his mind, etc.
2. They were tracking Sawyer for some reason prior to the crash,
3. Suspension of disbelief on our part.

Can you think of anything else?

Yes, it was Basra.

As for the Sawyer thing, there can only be three possible broad explanations:

1. Supernatural--smoke monster, psychics, reading his mind, etc.
2. They were tracking Sawyer for some reason prior to the crash,
3. Suspension of disbelief on our part.

Can you think of anything else?

My initial impression was that the Australian police must have identified Sawyer as the killer of that man at the shrimp stand, and the others uncovered that in their research.

Oh yeah. That would be #4, and probably the most realistic...

How could the others possibly know about the woman Sayid tortured or about the man Sawyer shot? That goes far beyond simple record gathering...

Wow. It's so obvious.

They used the dish on the flame to download Season 2.

--------------------------------------------------------------------
Any other "Spaceballs" fans out there?

Wow. It's so obvious.

They used the dish on the flame to download Season 2.

--------------------------------------------------------------------
Any other "Spaceballs" fans out there?
*raises hand*

(did the sub travel at ludicrious speed and that's why Juliet had to be strapped in? :biggrin:)



Also, this thread begs the question.....do the Others know that Jack and Claire are half-siblings?

Hmm, I bet they DO know that Jack and Claire are half-siblings...especially if Christian is still out haunting on the island somewhere.;)

I did think of another possible explanation...

Maybe it somehow falls into the whole Desmond time-travel thing? That is- maybe they have some way to see a person's past...I keep thinking of the "magic box" now. Ah well, I know these things somehow connect but can't seem to find THE puzzle piece that connects them all!

We saw Ben tell Mikey to get all of the information about the passengers, but how did Jules know about Sawyer killing the guy at the shrimp shack? The Aussie police did not even know about it, because if they did he would not have been allowed to leave the country.

The police didn't know when Sawyer left the country. They could have figured out later that he was the prime suspect. Maybe some surveillance camera caught him in the area or a tip was called in. Since the Others communication with the outside world continued past the crash, the police had plenty of time to figure out "who done it".

The police didn't know when Sawyer left the country.

Uhm, they were deporting him to the USA after he beat up an Australian minister in a bar fight.

But there's another problem... Sawyer was held in a police cell for three days after that bar fight. So he must have killed Frank Ducket earlier than the night before the plane crash, as Juliet claimed.

Uhm, they were deporting him to the USA after he beat up an Australian minister in a bar fight.
.

?? I'm not sure what this has to do with the police not knowing or suspecting Sawyer killed shrimp-man when he left the country but deciding later (after old fashion police work) that he was their killer.

ETA - just realized you probably were reading that as the police didn't *know when* Sawer left, not as know that Sawyer was the killer, which is responding to the previous post of "how did they *know* that".

I haven't seen the episode in ages, so I don't remember it that well... Perhaps the cops just showed up to escort Sawyer onto the plane but he'd been released from jail and not watched (or not watched closely enough) the night before the flight when he killed shrimp-man.

Juliet was probably strapped into the bed on the sub, because if she rolled over in her sleep from the top bunk, then she would have had a nasty fall.

The police didn't know when Sawyer left the country. They could have figured out later that he was the prime suspect. Maybe some surveillance camera caught him in the area or a tip was called in. Since the Others communication with the outside world continued past the crash, the police had plenty of time to figure out "who done it".

Most murder cases aren't "open and shut" especially when it's not immediately clear who had motive for the murder. There would have been no obvious ties between Sawyer and Duckett so unless someone saw Sawyer kill him, how would the police have solved it so quickly?

People saw Sawyer earlier, when he first visited the shrimp place, and then just suddenly left... after ordering. That looks kinda odd (or may at least be a lead worth following, since Sawyer would have been famous when the news started talking about the flight and passengers after the "disappearance"). Perhaps he became a suspect after the fact. Think about this, maybe they found a print on the gun, did he toss it away? Or did he bring it with him? HE could have hid it in his apartment/hotel... Police would have found it, and then connected that gun to that murder and voila...

I figure that's how Juliet found out...

I was thinking that Smokey can not only scan the minds of people, the Others have a way to extract that information from Smokey.

When has Sawyer been around Smokey?

yeh that struck me to. They seem to know the unknowable. Perhaps, outside of Smokey, there is some way of reading one's mind. Perhaps Ethan or someone who was close enough to them in their camp was able to employ some sense of ESP. With all of the unusual studies that did once abound on that island I suspect that someone had some sort of ability. I mean it sounds far fetched but then again I cant fathom any other explanation.

I don't think Smokey had anything to do with it. Mikhail was monitoring the news. Juliet mentioned Ducket 2 1/2 months after the crash. No doubt there was an investigation into Ducket's death. It is perfectly reasonable to assume it made the news. Something like ... *Forensic investigators determined today that DNA found at the previously mysterious murder scene of concessionaire Frank Ducket, was that of James Ford. Mr. Ford, one of the unfortunate passengers of ill-fated Oceanic Flight 815, was expelled from Australia following an incident involving Agriculture Minister ...*

When has Sawyer been around Smokey?


The mystical boar-daddy. Remember?

Did she specifically say the woman's name? I couldn't hear clearly, but I thought she named a city in Iraq, and not a woman's name.

She said, "Do they know about Rosalind?"

Please, please don't let Rosalind be a torture victim. We've seen that--twice. But then what did Sayid do to Rosalind that he's so ashamed of? Marry her for a green card?

But you got me thinking--if it's a city, perhaps she said "Roswell," and there are aliens involved!

I do believe she said Basra. He might ahve done something that is part of his military record. Or, Inman might have passed along the info.

As for the Duckett killing, Christian was in that area of Australia at the time, and he was actually the one who gave Sawyer the courage to do the deed.

These are just possible explanations.

Hibbs, an island powers minion, sent Sawyer to Oz to kill the wrong guy.
Hibbs or a confederate followed up to see if Sawyer did the deed - by watching news reports, police reports, the shrimp truck didn't open the next day, whatever.
Hibbs reported the info to the island powers.

At least one other person is bound to know about Basra, whoever or whatever Basra is. Could have been Kelvin or some other island stoolie.

Hibbs, an island powers minion, sent Sawyer to Oz to kill the wrong guy.
Hibbs or a confederate followed up to see if Sawyer did the deed - by watching news reports, police reports, the shrimp truck didn't open the next day, whatever.
Hibbs reported the info to the island powers.

At least one other person is bound to know about Basra, whoever or whatever Basra is. Could have been Kelvin or some other island stoolie.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basra

The mystical boar-daddy. Remember?

I'm not really on that band-wagon of - all the strange animals that appear on the island are smokey.

I'm assuming that when someone is confronted by smokey, and he flashes with images from their past, he is accessing their memories.
100%
I don't think Smokey had anything to do with it. Mikhail was monitoring the news. Juliet mentioned Ducket 2 1/2 months after the crash. No doubt there was an investigation into Ducket's death. It is perfectly reasonable to assume it made the news. Something like ... *Forensic investigators determined today that DNA found at the previously mysterious murder scene of concessionaire Frank Ducket, was that of James Ford. Mr. Ford, one of the unfortunate passengers of ill-fated Oceanic Flight 815, was expelled from Australia following an incident involving Agriculture Minister ...*

There would have to be DNA from at least a dozen people at the scene. Are you speculating that they could have found Sawyer's DNA on Duckett's person? If not, why isolate one person as a suspect if you don't have any other reason to suspect them?

Yes, it was Basra.

As for the Sawyer thing, there can only be three possible broad explanations:

1. Supernatural--smoke monster, psychics, reading his mind, etc.
2. They were tracking Sawyer for some reason prior to the crash,
3. Suspension of disbelief on our part.

Can you think of anything else?

Yes, I can. The memories of their past are implanted.

How could the others possibly know about the woman Sayid tortured or about the man Sawyer shot? That goes far beyond simple record gathering...
Wow. It's so obvious.
They used the dish on the flame to download Season 2.[/SIZE]

:clapping: Heh.. that was funny.
I wondered when she mentioned about Sawyer shooting the guy how they possibly could know. they have information about the Losties that goes well beyond finding their obituaries and doing a background check..

Juliet was probably strapped into the bed on the sub, because if she rolled over in her sleep from the top bunk, then she would have had a nasty fall.
I was making a Spaceballs reference. ;)

That could be an explanation, or maybe the sub hits a bumpy patch, like what caused 815 to break apart? Either way, I'm sure she was strapped in to keep from falling......or from rising too fast and hitting her head on that low, sloped ceiling!

Rather than Basra or Rosalind, I thought she said Wasrim - or a similar-sounding name. Wasn't this the friend Sayid duped in Australia, who subsequently killed himself?

If these people were pre chosen, for whatever reason, as some have suspected since the beginning, then maybe they were all under surveillance up until they got on flight 815. It's a stretch, but the best I can come up with for now.

I think that is a great point! I am sure they were under some kind of surveillance. This is the point then where I ask how did they know who was going to survive? Weird?

Rather than Basra or Rosalind, I thought she said Wasrim - or a similar-sounding name. Wasn't this the friend Sayid duped in Australia, who subsequently killed himself?ermmmm.....did anyone have on closed captioning??

ermmmm.....did anyone have on closed captioning??

Yes, cc said Basra.

And the simplest explanation for them knowing about Sawyer is Hibbs told them.

Yes, cc said Basra.
well then....case closed on this one, eh?

My initial impression was that the Australian police must have identified Sawyer as the killer of that man at the shrimp stand, and the others uncovered that in their research.
I would think that's the most plausible. Sawyer isn't that clever of a criminal to do the perfect murder and I think the Australian police, given enough time, could have solved it. For example, ballistics could have identified the gun and maybe traced it to the guy Sawyer got it from in Sydney, who provided a description/name of who he sold the gun to. Even if it was unregistered; in which case it would have taken more time.

I'm holding onto logic because the list of facts that Juliet tried to impress Kate with in her knowledge of Jack were all things in the public record or that a mildly competent private eye could have uncovered for them -- which it looks like Mikhail was working on using the internet etc etc. Not supernatural powers or Smokey scanning their memories or whatnot.

Wow. It's so obvious.

They used the dish on the flame to download Season 2.
Good one, except it was Season 1 for the shrimp guy's murder and Season 3 for the woman in France that Sayid had tortured. :biggrin:

I would think that's the most plausible. Sawyer isn't that clever of a criminal to do the perfect murder and I think the Australian police, given enough time, could have solved it. For example, ballistics could have identified the gun and maybe traced it to the guy Sawyer got it from in Sydney, who provided a description/name of who he sold the gun to. Even if it was unregistered; in which case it would have taken more time.

I'm holding onto logic because the list of facts that Juliet tried to impress Kate with in her knowledge of Jack were all things in the public record or that a mildly competent private eye could have uncovered for them -- which it looks like Mikhail was working on using the internet etc etc. Not supernatural powers or Smokey scanning their memories or whatnot.


This is it. The Others intel didn't all come at one time. They were constantly gathering information up until the sky turned purple. This would have given the police enough time to find the body, conduct an investigation and wheather it was DNA or Hibbs telling them that Sawyer was the culprit or through ballistics; it made the paper or Patchy found the police report.

Sawyer could be an Other. I mean all we know of Sawyer is that he's a con man. There is also that personal connection with Kate through his ex-girlfriend. Didn't he plot Sun's kidnapping? And wasn't he the one that loved the long-con?