Answers:
1. Juliet and Goodwin were an item, and Goodwin really did seem to be a good man.

2. Juliet had no romantic relationship with Ben. She was upset in the opening scenes of A Tale of Two Cities because she learned that she's effectively never going home and she believes that Ben lied to her about curing Rachel's cancer.

3. Ben is "not a liar," but anyone who says they are not a liar is automatically one, especially when he's shown us that he lies.

4. Mikhail could view real-time video feeds from what looked to be several different sources from around the world. The satellite dish on top of The Flame would have been able to grab Ku and C band satellite feeds, and the C band can be used for high speed (yet high latency) data transfers, so this makes sense.

5. Time did NOT appear to be flowing differently in the outside world, at least not before the failsafe was activated. Otherwise, there was no way for Ben to Richard with a camera on Rachel and Julian in the park, or for Mikhail to have been watching those feeds in real time.

6. Juliet is definitely a plant. What she told Kate was the truth, but not the whole truth.

7. The day after Ben learns he has a tumor, a spinal surgeon really does falls from the sky.

New Questions (using the same number for Answers that raise new questions):
1. Why did Goodwin seem so good to Juliet and the rest of the Others, but could easily murder one of the tailsection survivors? Was it because Nathan was not good? He certainly thought Ana Lucia was good and worthy.

2&3: Was Ben lying when he said that Rachel's cancer had returned, using it to manipulate Juliet? My guess is that they had nothing to do with curing Rachel of cancer because she never had a reactivation of it.

4. N/A

5. If time was not different on the island and the outside world pre-failsafe, then what did Richard mean when he said time flew on the Island?

6. Is Juliet working with/for Ben, or is she working on her own agenda?

7. Did Ben's need for a spinal surgeon and one falling from the sky the next day mean that "the box "had something to do with 815 crashing?

8. If the others just wanted to save Claire, why did Alex help her escape telling her that they were planning on killing her? It would seem that this was the case in regards to the story Ethan told Claire while she was drugged outside.

9. The baby issue: Ben was supposedly born on the island, and Danielle was able to have Alex after shipwrecking there. If that's the case, did the the fertility issues start happening around 16 years ago / 1988, or was Danielle far enough along that it was no longer an issue.

10. If Sun got pregnant, was it pre or post crash? If pre, which all the evidence supports at this time, what effect will it have on her baby? If post, are she and the baby doomed?

Please feel free to add your answers, questions, and ideas to the thread.

11-The sub went through the same kind of turbulence underwater that 815, Desmond's and Danielle's boats did topside while breaching the barrier of the island. Though you'd think it would spring a leak. Maybe they go through a 'soft spot' of it.

12-Karl was working as an x-ray tech.

13- Juliet is a very cool liar.

Did Ben send Goodwin and Ethan (at least one, maybe both of which were doctors) to that dangerous mission because they were the two closest people to Juliet? Not an answer I think we'll get, but it seemed like it tonight.

If Ethan acted on his own free will away from everyone - why were their so many people in the swan ready to do a c-section on claire?? Juliet even looked to be in that room. She's lying. They wanted to kidnap claire.

Another answer:
The Others did not know who was on the plane prior to it crashing on the island.

Another question:
Where was the Mittelos land-based lab? Is that where the sub left from? What else is in that lab complex? Was that supposed to be somewhere near Portland? I thought I saw palm trees but that could just be a filming thing...

5. Time did NOT appear to be flowing differently in the outside world, at least not before the failsafe was activated. Otherwise, there was no way for Ben to Richard with a camera on Rachel and Julian in the park, or for Mikhail to have been watching those feeds in real time.

This has not been absolutely proven. If TPTB really wanted to commit to time being the same on and off island, they would have shown Juliet speaking to her sister via the live feed. It is still possible for TPTB to come along later and reveal that the "live" video feeds Juliet saw were tapes.

6. Is Juliet working with/for Ben, or is she working on her own agenda?

Good question!

8. If the others just wanted to save Claire, why did Alex help her escape telling her that they were planning on killing her?

Juliet was lying about the Others wanting to save Claire.

9. The baby issue: Ben was supposedly born on the island, and Danielle was able to have Alex after shipwrecking there. If that's the case, did the the fertility issues start happening around 16 years ago / 1988, or was Danielle far enough along that it was no longer an issue.

The fatal pregnancies only seem to affect women who conceive on island, not those who are already pregnant when they arrive. Juliet was lying to the Losties about this, too.

10. If Sun got pregnant, was it pre or post crash? If pre, which all the evidence supports at this time, what effect will it have on her baby? If post, are she and the baby doomed?

If Sun conceived on the island, then it looks like it's a sandy grave for her and the baby. :frown:

why is Ben hellbent on fixing the problem of conception on the island causing a terminated pregnancy? And why is he so hellbent on staying on the Island?

- where did Ben's cancer come from if no one gets cancer on the island?

- was Claire the only one who had an implant inserted? (Jack, Kate and Sawyer all had band-aids on when they woke up after being captured)

- is "the activation of the implant" the sickness?

Does Juliet have an implant as well? She was told that they would have to perform tests and take some "samples" from her. Hmmm.... They "took samples" of blood from Claire during her time in the Staff station as well.

Answers:
1. Juliet and Goodwin were an item, and Goodwin really did seem to be a good man.


"Seem" being the operative word here.

Answers:
2. Juliet had no romantic relationship with Ben. She was upset in the opening scenes of A Tale of Two Cities because she learned that she's effectively never going home and she believes that Ben lied to her about curing Rachel's cancer.


She had no romantic relationship with Ben that we know of during this episode. Next weeks epi could change this.


Answers:
4. Mikhail could view real-time video feeds from what looked to be several different sources from around the world. The satellite dish on top of The Flame would have been able to grab Ku and C band satellite feeds, and the C band can be used for high speed (yet high latency) data transfers, so this makes sense.


You left out "seem to" as in "Mikhail could seem to view real-time video feeds". For all we know the feed was a tape and therefore staged.

Answers:
5. Time did NOT appear to be flowing differently in the outside world, at least not before the failsafe was activated. Otherwise, there was no way for Ben to Richard with a camera on Rachel and Julian in the park, or for Mikhail to have been watching those feeds in real time.


See above. There is no way of knowing this unless it can be proven the feed was live (and the newspaper date was accurate).

Answers:
6. Juliet is definitely a plant. What she told Kate was the truth, but not the whole truth.


Juliet may be a double agent. Or a triple agent. Or whatever.

LOST is so full of lies and manipulations, you have and may never have any way of knowing anything at all. It is all subject to change.

2. Juliet had no romantic relationship with Ben.

We still don't know that for absolute certain. :biggrin: I mean, she seemed awfully close to Ben when she was breaking down and begging him to let her go home. It's possible that her affair with Goodwin was just that - an affair. Could be why Ben sent Goodwin off to his eventual death? OK, so I'm a closet Juliet and Ben shipper. ;)

2&3: Was Ben lying when he said that Rachel's cancer had returned, using it to manipulate Juliet? My guess is that they had nothing to do with curing Rachel of cancer because she never had a reactivation of it.

Yeah, that was my main question after seeing this epi. I kept wondering how on earth Ben would have been able to promise that Jacob would make sure that they'd cure Rachel. At first I thought Ben meant that they would bring Rachel to the island, but then when they were at Mikhail's, I realized that wasn't the case. But he most likely was lying... The question is, why would Juliet believe that they had the power to cure her sister?

This has not been absolutely proven. If TPTB really wanted to commit to time being the same on and off island, they would have shown Juliet speaking to her sister via the live feed. It is still possible for TPTB to come along later and reveal that the "live" video feeds Juliet saw were tapes.


Since they showed the date on the newspaper (this time September 22, 2004), with Ben explicitly mentioning the date, Ben would have to "predict" Oceanic 815's crash in order to tape the video feed; the crash happened just moments before.

Personally, I think all the "lost time" references are just red-herrings. But then that's just me.

It's the same time. The writers wanted us to see that.

This has not been absolutely proven. If TPTB really wanted to commit to time being the same on and off island, they would have shown Juliet speaking to her sister via the live feed. It is still possible for TPTB to come along later and reveal that the "live" video feeds Juliet saw were tapes.

Juliet saw a newspaper showing the date of the crash of Oceanic Flight 815, as confirmed by Locke in the season 2 finale. Unless the plane passed through a time portal before crashing on the island, that feed WAS live.

Why did Goodwin seem so good to Juliet and the rest of the Others, but could easily murder one of the tailsection survivors? Was it because Nathan was not good? He certainly thought Ana Lucia was good and worthy.

OK, I want to see why Juliet and Goodwin got together. Did Ben rig it so that Juliet would have some reason to stick around on the island? Did Goodwin have any contact with Juliet after leaving to infiltrate the tailies?

And what *was* up with Nathan? I'd like to see if there's something deeper into why Goodwin just killed him. Did the Others discover something sinister about people on Flight 815 that we don't know yet?

IF "JACOB" CAN CURE CANCER WHY CAN'T HE CURE THE IMMUNE SYSTEM PROBLEM WITH THE WOMEN?

This reeks of super con job............but who is the con on? I startint to believe that it is the viewers.:biggrin:

If Ben figured out that the plane crash survivors included a top spinal surgeon, why not just go over there, introduce himself, and ask Jack to do the surgery? Why all the cloak and dagger stuff and lies?

Answers:Mikhail could view real-time video feeds from what looked to be several different sources from around the world.
If I were the LOSTaways, I would be demanding (Locke could have demanded the following from Ben, Sawyer and Sayid could have demanded the following from Juliet last night, etc.) to know how the Others know such incredibly detailed, complete and personal information about them. Ben told Mikhail that he wanted detailed files on all the crash victims of Oceanic 815. But how would those files have contained certain information, like that Sawyer shot the guy at the shrimp store? No one saw that. Or that Locke's father conned him out of a kidney, because only Helen really knew the story there, etc.

It sure seems to moi that the Others have been following/monitoring the lives of the key people on board Oceanic 815 for a much longer time than just investigating and putting together a file after the crash. They know too many details.

The one thing we "learned" (or did we?) that surprised me last night and goes against my own theories about LOST is that apparently (emphasis on apparently...not definitely, just apparently) Ben and the Others did not know flight 815 was going to crash before it did. We supposedly already know that from the way they reacted in the previous episode that showed the crash from the perspective of the Others/Otherville, yet I still thought maybe Ben and some key people knew all along and just acted surprised when ordering Ethan and Goodwin to go live among them and get a "list". But last night it really seemed that Ben did not know the crash was going to happen beforehand. Still...I think that might have been an act, as I still tend to agree with Locke: "We were all brought here for a reason". Now, maybe Locke feels that "the island" brought them there, but I feel that the Others did. They carefully orchestrated events off-island to ensure that each and every one of the LOSTies would be on Oceanic 815 that fateful day, far-fetched as that theory might sound, it is the only one that seems to me to fit everything. And because they have been following our faves for their entire lives, THAT is how they know their detailed information. But only Ben and certain top Others on the island know the full scoop that the crash was no accident. The "other Others" all think it was just happenstance that 815 crashed there.

Again, if I were a LOSTaway, I'd be asking: HOW do you know so much about me, things you could never find out from even the best private investigator?

edited to add: The other reason I think the crash was no accident is that there are just too many connections between all the people on the flight. I know that the creators of LOST like to explore the "six degrees of seperation" theory and so it could be argued that it is no more than their love of doing that, yet I think it is more than that. There are waaaaaaaaaaaay less than six degrees of separation between some of our LOSTaways and I think, again, the crash of Oceanic Flight 815 was no accident. They were indeed "all brought here for a reason."

one thing we have not discussed here, how did they know what kind of "list" to get. Ben just said get me a list in three days. So crashes have happened before. Could the list be women and children?

Since they showed the date on the newspaper (this time September 22, 2004), with Ben explicitly mentioning the date, Ben would have to "predict" Oceanic 815's crash in order to tape the video feed; the crash happened just moments before.

Personally, I think all the "lost time" references are just red-herrings. But then that's just me.


I agree, it was a live feed. Also, I believe that on one of Mikhail's tv screens was showing a news report about the missing flight.

one thing we have not discussed here, how did they know what kind of "list" to get. Ben just said get me a list in three days. So crashes have happened before. Could the list be women and children?

Probably a list of who was alive.

...the Others have been following/monitoring the lives of the key people on board Oceanic 815 for a much longer time than just investigating and putting together a file after the crash. They know too many details.

The logistics of this would be mind-boggling!

...They carefully orchestrated events off-island to ensure that each and every one of the LOSTies would be on Oceanic 815 that fateful day, far-fetched as that theory might sound, it is the only one that seems to me to fit everything.

Again, mind-boggling! Manipulating the million little things in a day that could change a person's course of events. The people involved in orchestrating that type of surveillance/manipulation is off the scale.

With that said, I believe Ben was not surprised to see the plane crash, and he knew certain people would be on the plane. I also believe that they knew/followed certain people before the crash, and manipulated events in their lives. But, the logistics is still mind-boggling!

Edited to add: I believe the "List" was of the women and children. They were unable to get one and losing the other, they needed more.

Why is Mikhael trigger happy? Because of the wild animals or something else?

Since they showed the date on the newspaper (this time September 22, 2004), with Ben explicitly mentioning the date, Ben would have to "predict" Oceanic 815's crash in order to tape the video feed; the crash happened just moments before.

Personally, I think all the "lost time" references are just red-herrings. But then that's just me.

I also believe this to be the case. Mittelos (an anagram for both Lost Time and Time Slot) was first introduced in the episode where they switched to a new Time Slot. That seems to be a lot more believable than "Lost Time."

Don

Did Ben send Goodwin and Ethan (at least one, maybe both of which were doctors) to that dangerous mission because they were the two closest people to Juliet? Not an answer I think we'll get, but it seemed like it tonight.

Good call, considering that Ben do like to play with people emotions.

why is Ben hellbent on fixing the problem of conception on the island causing a terminated pregnancy?
Ben claim he was born on the island. So who is Ben's parents? were they born on the island too. Could Jacob be Ben's father?

And why is he so hellbent on staying on the Island?
..Since Ben claim to be born on the island, maybe he can't leave the island. So if he can't leave, he 's likely ( ..like Locke) not to want anyone else to leave the island. I think it would be interesting if we were to find out that Locke, and not Ben, was born on the island.


JACOB" CAN CURE CANCER WHY CAN'T HE CURE THE IMMUNE SYSTEM PROBLEM WITH THE WOMEN?
..Good call!. Ben claim that Jacob cured Juliet's sister's cancer ( ..although he might have been lying, as some stated) without having to bring her to the island. Could Jacob have been some place else , other than the island? Is it possible that Jacob is someone human, who have the power to heal? If that is the case, than we should take a closer look at "Sarah", Jack wife. Could Jacob had heal Sarah?..or was it Jack? ..or was it Christian Sherpard?...could Jacob turn out to be someone who was on flight 815?:eek2:

7. The day after Ben learns he has a tumor, a spinal surgeon really does falls from the sky.

New Questions (using the same number for Answers that raise new questions):
7. Did Ben's need for a spinal surgeon and one falling from the sky the next day mean that "the box "had something to do with 815 crashing?


Wrong about the the timeline, right about the crash spec.

Using Juliet's "It'll be 3 years tomorrow", and her previous "3 years, 2 months, 28 days" comment, approximately 2 weeks passed between when Juliet told him about the tumor and the plane crashed. I did the math quickly in my head, as I watched the epi, so could be off.
Regardless, there was ample time to manipulate some events.
Remember too that Ben needed a new pregnancy to keep Juliet motivated.

This has not been absolutely proven. If TPTB really wanted to commit to time being the same on and off island, they would have shown Juliet speaking to her sister via the live feed. It is still possible for TPTB to come along later and reveal that the "live" video feeds Juliet saw were tapes.


Just let it go already. time is no different on the island and in the outside world. how more obvious can it be? not everything on lost has to be a conspiracy that the writers or big bad ben are trying to pull on us.

If I were the LOSTaways, I would be demanding (Locke could have demanded the following from Ben, Sawyer and Sayid could have demanded the following from Juliet last night, etc.) to know how the Others know such incredibly detailed, complete and personal information about them. Ben told Mikhail that he wanted detailed files on all the crash victims of Oceanic 815. But how would those files have contained certain information, like that Sawyer shot the guy at the shrimp store? No one saw that. Or that Locke's father conned him out of a kidney, because only Helen really knew the story there, etc.

It sure seems to moi that the Others have been following/monitoring the lives of the key people on board Oceanic 815 for a much longer time than just investigating and putting together a file after the crash. They know too many details.

I think that w/Sawyer the Others didn't find out about that until later on. The police found a body, did an investigation and traced it back to Sawyer (James).

The one thing we "learned" (or did we?) that surprised me last night and goes against my own theories about LOST is that apparently (emphasis on apparently...not definitely, just apparently) Ben and the Others did not know flight 815 was going to crash before it did. We supposedly already know that from the way they reacted in the previous episode that showed the crash from the perspective of the Others/Otherville, yet I still thought maybe Ben and some key people knew all along and just acted surprised when ordering Ethan and Goodwin to go live among them and get a "list". But last night it really seemed that Ben did not know the crash was going to happen beforehand. Still...I think that might have been an act, as I still tend to agree with Locke: "We were all brought here for a reason". Now, maybe Locke feels that "the island" brought them there, but I feel that the Others did. They carefully orchestrated events off-island to ensure that each and every one of the LOSTies would be on Oceanic 815 that fateful day, far-fetched as that theory might sound, it is the only one that seems to me to fit everything. And because they have been following our faves for their entire lives, THAT is how they know their detailed information. But only Ben and certain top Others on the island know the full scoop that the crash was no accident. The "other Others" all think it was just happenstance that 815 crashed there.


After OOU I don't think the Others had anything to do w/the crash or compiling the passenger list of flight 815. This is not to say I don't think someone else did (DHARMA, Hanso ect.) But by Ben's convo w/ Patchy I don't think Ben or the others on the island had anything to do w/the crash.

Just let it go already. time is no different on the island and in the outside world. how more obvious can it be? not everything on lost has to be a conspiracy that the writers or big bad ben are trying to pull on us.
not sure how you can sound so convinced, with the Desmond flashback in FBYE :confused:

. Ben told Mikhail that he wanted detailed files on all the crash victims of Oceanic 815. But how would those files have contained certain information, like that Sawyer shot the guy at the shrimp store? No one saw that. Or that Locke's father conned him out of a kidney, because only Helen really knew the story there, etc.


Very good question there.
I dont get at all how they knew that Sawyer shot that guy at the shrimp store.
But as for them fining out about Cooper conning Locke out of his kidney... That kid, Peter (Coopers new to be wifes son) somehow did find out that Locke gave Cooper a kidney. , So at least the medical information must be out there somewheres. Not that he was conned out of it though.
But then in those therapy sessons that Locke was attending he told everyone that he got conned out of a kidney by his father. Its the conned out of it part that would be I believe hard to get info on.

This brings me around to another question. Since Mikhail seemd to be the one that gathers information for the Others, and the Others willingly took Locke with them, will they find out that Locke killed Mikhail (Patchy)?

Im Puzzled

I. But how would those files have contained certain information, like that Sawyer shot the guy at the shrimp store? No one saw that. Or that Locke's father conned him out of a kidney, because only Helen really knew the story there, etc.

Cooper knows the full story and then some. Either he or someone he's working with or someone who has it in for him gave that info to the Others.

Hibbs told them about Sawyer. He sent Sawyer to shoot the shrimp guy and certainly knew (police reports, news story, a designated watcher, take your pick) that he had done so.
Remember that Hibbs knows a "Tony" (likely Anthony Cooper).

The logistics of this would be mind-boggling! ...Manipulating the million little things in a day that could change a person's course of events. The people involved in orchestrating that type of surveillance/manipulation is off the scale.
I hear ya and I know, it is mind-boggling, but I still stand by my theory. I think that the Others have been manipulating the lives and/or monitoring the lives of at least some of our LOSTaways for many years, some from birth. Locke is a good example of this. I not only think that Locke is the product of some early eugenics/reproductive experimentation of theirs, I think they've been following him, following "their experiment", all this time, off-island to the present. Remember when Locke was explaining the game of "Mousetrap" to a child when he was a store clerk? And it was the episode in which his mother contacted him and said he was "immaculately conceived"? I think that scene of him explaining "Mousetrap" to the child was so, so telling and such an important clue to the entire mystery of LOST. I know how totally mind-boggling ("mind-boggling" is a good way to put it, very apt) this is, but we've had clues from Season One about this off-island monitoring of the LOSTaways by whatever this group really is (Hanso Foundation/Mittelos Bioscience/Widmore/Piek/Anthony/whatever they are) and, mind-boggling as it is, far-fetched as it is, I think it just goes to show how powerful, ruthless and sort of omnipresent these people are, certainly in the lives of our main characters. True, they couldn't possibly control all variables in people's lives, but, like the game of Mousetrap, they meticulously manipulate as many variables as they can to achieve the desired chain of events/result. I think sometimes things go wrong for these people...but more often, they get what they want.

That is all just my quite possibly wacked-out two cents. :laugh:

I dont get at all how they knew that Sawyer shot that guy at the shrimp store.

From Hibbs, the island minion, who sent him there.

And they know about Sayid's Basra friend because the so-called CIA folks weren't CIA at all, but island minions.

I think that w/Sawyer the Others didn't find out about that until later on. The police found a body, did an investigation and traced it back to Sawyer (James).
Oh, you are right! Good remembering there, I had forgotten that the police did find the body and trace it back to Sawyer, so that would have been on the public records. Good call! Okay, so the shrimp store guy being shot was not a good example of what I mean then but still, the Others know way too many personal, impossible-to-know things for it all to have been gleaned via investigation and the resultant "detailed file". No, the Others know way too much about the LOSTies. If I were one of the LOSTies and Ben, Juliet or any of the Others were to say something to me that they had no earthly way to know, logically, I would definitely say, to quote Sawyer: "Hang on a tick," how do you know that? Tell me this very second or this conversation is over, no soup for you!
Cooper knows the full story and then some. Either he or someone he's working with or someone who has it in for him gave that info to the Others.
But then in those therapy sessons that Locke was attending he told everyone that he got conned out of a kidney by his father. Its the conned out of it part that would be I believe hard to get info on.
Great points, you guys. You all are far, far more awake today than I, obviously. Okay, so maybe the Others could learn a lot about these pups via hiring top notch private investigators. But STILL it seems to me, after watching and re-watching the entire series of LOST thus far from the classic opening moment Jack opened his eyes in the jungle after the crash, that these "Others" know EVERYTHING about our LOSTaways. I mean, way more than they could find out in any other way than by having been monitoring them basically forever.

Far-fetched, I know. But I've always thought this and nothing has convinced me otherwise as of this writing. As for Ben, I don't believe a word out of the man's mouth, so I still am thinking he knew 815 was going to crash before it did.

"We were all brought here for a reason." ...Yup.

I think it just goes to show how powerful, ruthless and sort of omnipresent these people are, certainly in the lives of our main characters. True, they couldn't possibly control all variables in people's lives, but, like the game of Mousetrap, they meticulously manipulate as many variables as they can to achieve the desired chain of events/result. I think sometimes things go wrong for these people...but more often, they get what they want.

They don't have to be omnipresent. We were given the means last night on a silver platter, in Ben's and Juliet's dinner table scene. You have a good, well-rehearsed plan A, and a back-up Plan B. (This being fictional drama, one back-up plan suffices)

To wit:

Using the "real Mr. Sawyer" as a ruse to get James to Oz was a slam dunk. The gun dealer gave non-killing type Sawyer (as labelled by Hibbs) a nudge by telling him he needed to be serious about killing. Maybe Christian was plan B, or maybe Christian was non-participant who inadvertently revived Plan A. Sawyer killed the guy.

The fake CIA folks set up Sawyer to betray his Basra friend. The friend ending up dead may have been plan A or B; regardless, they achieved their aim of co-opting Sayid.

Cooper was their best means of co-opting Locke. Whether Cooper's a minion, or one of his allies or rivals is a minion matters not. They had a plan A & B, and Cooper was part of one or both.

Lostmio, I'm thinking that is probably true just another 6degrees thing, but wouldnt it more likely come from smokey? We saw all it knew with Eko's memories in it's smoke, all the faces of his past, so I'm leaning to that right now as the info gathering technique.

Answers:

7. Did Ben's need for a spinal surgeon and one falling from the sky the next day mean that "the box "had something to do with 815 crashing?



I don't think so. Remember, Ben told Jack that Ethan was their surgeon but the Losties killed him so now they need Jack for the operation.

Presumably, Ethan would have performed the tumor removal even after the plane crashed but Ethan's death forced their hand to use Jack instead.

Lostmio, I'm thinking that is probably true just another 6degrees thing, but wouldnt it more likely come from smokey? We saw all it knew with Eko's memories in it's smoke, all the faces of his past, so I'm leaning to that right now as the info gathering technique.

This seems to be the most reasonable thing to think. LOL a smoke monster. But I agree if this thing can scan every little thing about a person then this would make for quite a database. But it seems that the others dont really control this thing so...

Answers:
1. Juliet and Goodwin were an item, and Goodwin really did seem to be a good man.

New Questions:
1. Why did Goodwin seem so good to Juliet and the rest of the Others, but could easily murder one of the tailsection survivors? Was it because Nathan was not good? He certainly thought Ana Lucia was good and worthy.

I don't think Goodwin ever really was a good man - I think Ben was using the Goodwin/Juliet relationship as a way to keep Juliet happy and on island.

I also think that the fact that Goodwin and Ethan ran off so quickly after such a short command by Ben to infiltrate the Losties proves to me that they are two of Ben's most trusted "others" and will do anything for him at the drop of a hat...including recruiting, killing, seducing, etc.

[B]
2&3: Was Ben lying when he said that Rachel's cancer had returned, using it to manipulate Juliet? My guess is that they had nothing to do with curing Rachel of cancer because she never had a reactivation of it.



Good point. I did get the feeling that the cancer data was bogus and a way to manipulate
Juliet. Ben did not want Juliet to leave the island and find out that Rachel no longer
had cancer, so he tells her he will 'cure her'.

We've seen Juliet go from a meek doctor to *** kicking,kate-throwing other badass. So is the fact that she was sleeping with Goodwin the reason she picked up the kickass moves. I mean a guy that had been in the Peace Corps would know how to handle himself no?

Sorry of this has been brought up.

- where did Ben's cancer come from if no one gets cancer on the island?

I don't think Ben had cancer. Not all tumors are cancerous, and if he did have cancer, he would currently be undergoing chemotherapy.


- was Claire the only one who had an implant inserted? (Jack, Kate and Sawyer all had band-aids on when they woke up after being captured)

- is "the activation of the implant" the sickness?

Dang good questions. I think all of them got implants, and I think it likely could be the sickness.

Lostmio, I'm thinking that is probably true just another 6degrees thing, but wouldnt it more likely come from smokey? We saw all it knew with Eko's memories in it's smoke, all the faces of his past, so I'm leaning to that right now as the info gathering technique.
Interesting! I still say the "off-island Others" have been monitoring at least some of the LOSTaways since way before the crash of Oceanic 815, but I like your theory of "Smokey" scanning people's memories. Wild stuff. ...Liking it. That could indeed be at least a part of what Smokey does.

If Juliets sisters reaccourance of cancer was a lie then why is Juliet still helping Ben? Maybe, they really did cure the cancer but just as Juliet had medicine to "cure" Claire then they could also stop giving the sister medicine and her cancer will return. That would be a big reason to help Ben still.

Also, I never got that Ben was born on the lsland- I took it as he considers that his life began on the day he came to the island?????? Just a thought.

One more way out there theory but if the time travel is part of the story the list could have been made for the people in which the others would go back into time to find out everything about them or at least the important parts which are not of public record. I'm not convinced of the time travel but it would explain how they know so much and also why the gave Juliet so much sleeping medicine. Time travel would be a rocky ride! And just because we saw her wake up on the sub doesn't mean that she got on the island on the sub-remember Ben said that the sub gives a "ILLUSION" to freedom. Just some thoughts!

I'm agreeing with you, LockeFan. I don't know how they are doing it, but they are....and have been for a while...

I don't think so. Remember, Ben told Jack that Ethan was their surgeon but the Losties killed him so now they need Jack for the operation.

Presumably, Ethan would have performed the tumor removal even after the plane crashed but Ethan's death forced their hand to use Jack instead.

Ok, just a random Question / Rant on this one. Why would you send your only surgeon to gather information? Ethan wasn't a Red Shirt, as their doctor he was a Gold Shirt! I mean, Goodwin, ok. Reliable, but not vital to their survivival (in as far as we know).

It's like when Ben treked across the island and we talked about him being unimportant, because the important people don't put themselves in danger. If Ethan was so important, and he died, you think Ben wouldn't have gone to the Losties.

You left out "seem to" as in "Mikhail could seem to view real-time video feeds". For all we know the feed was a tape and therefore staged.

Not if you take the timeline into account.

We see the opening of Not in Portland -
Juliet playing the CD and trying not to fall apart.
We see the book club.
We see the house shake and they run outside to see the plane break up over the island.
Ben issues his orders to Ethan and Goodwin to infiltrate the survivors if there are any.
Ben mentions to Juliet that he must be out of the book club.

Then we get the new material from this episode of what happened afteward...

As Juliet is walking away from Ben with her copy of Carrie, he says they need to talk a walk.
They walk to The Flame and Mikhail shows them feeds of a missing Flight 815 from several different news organizations. Ben gets a briefing from Mikhail and says he's already working on full reports on each and every person on the flight.
Then Ben says Juliet calling him a liar hurt his feelings and he shows her the video feed of Rachel and Julian.

Given the timeframe, I think it's pretty much impossible for the flight 815 stuff to have been on tape. Also, for those that have been asking why they would have video of flight 815 taking off, they most likely didn't. News organizations use stock video for stories like that all the time. My guess is that they just showed generic video of a plane of the same or similar type taking off.

Could it be that the "list" and background checks Ben needed were of those on the flight who were not hand-picked to be there? You know who I'm talking about...the random people who eat hog and run up and hug people when they return. People of no impact or consequence to the show or the island.

They knew the Jacks and the Lockes and the Walts were on the plane. They put them there by design and wanted them on the Island. But, the others who were just randomly on the plane needed to have their backgrounds checked and needed to be listed in order to determine whether or not they were a threat to the overall plan.

Ben told Mikhail that he wanted detailed files on all the crash victims of Oceanic 815. But how would those files have contained certain information, like that Sawyer shot the guy at the shrimp store? No one saw that.

That's a really, really good point. Sawyer was thrown out of the country for headbutting the Australian Minister of Agriculture in a bar fight some time after he killed Frank Duckett and was ordered deported. It's either a very interesting new question on how they knew or a continuity error.

Or that Locke's father conned him out of a kidney, because only Helen really knew the story there, etc.

Well, we know that Peter Talbot, the rich woman's son, was able to track John down because of the medical records, though honestly in the real world that would never happen. Medical records like that are confidential due to US Federal law and protecting them happens to be what I do for a living. Still, a good Private Investigator could get access to them. Either way, if Peter could get them, even with a PI, I'm sure our seemingly well connected Others could have gotten them as well.

Lostmio, I'm thinking that is probably true just another 6degrees thing, but wouldnt it more likely come from smokey? We saw all it knew with Eko's memories in it's smoke, all the faces of his past, so I'm leaning to that right now as the info gathering technique.

Hi Snakey!

It's not a 6 degrees thing at all. I think Hibbs and a few of his cohorts and the 3 "CIA" agents are employed by some island power - whether that's Dharma, Hanso, Mittelos, Widmore, or some other entity remains to be seen.

And I don't buy Smoky as an intelligence gatherer, sentient or not. Further, it hasn't yet scanned James or Sayid and there's nothing so far to indicate it's one of Ben's devices.

A few fake human operatives seems far more plausible.

Why is Mikhael trigger happy? Because of the wild animals or something else?

My guess is he's the stereotypical "mad Russian." Maybe the cold war and his seemingly lonely tasks in the Russian Army. We know that in Enter 77, he said he wanted to be left alone, like a lighthouse keeper.

What I really want to know is what is Juliette's motivation to continue helping Ben now that the Flame station and the sub are destroyed? Ben seems to lack any means of contacting the outside world, and claims to have no other means off the island. Assuming that those two are correct, what could she possibly get from continuing to help Ben?

Certainly Ben could be lying, but in order to gain Juliette's trust he would have to do more than just tell her he can get her off the island. She knows he's a liar and would require more than just his word. If he has another means off the island then he is breaking his word to Jack, and she would know that. If he has no means off the island, then he must have a means of communicating with the outside world in order to motivate her to protect her sister and nephew, in which case why couldn't he just send for another sub? Which would again mean he is lying to Jack and Juliette knows it. I can't seem to find any credible reason why she would help Ben.

While forming my points for the previous paragraph I remembered what Ben told Jack about no one returning to the island after the sub left due to the destruction of the Flame station. If that is the case, does that mean there will be no further Dharma food drops? If a ship is unable to find their way to the island, how will a plane?

8. If the others just wanted to save Claire, why did Alex help her escape telling her that they were planning on killing her? It would seem that this was the case in regards to the story Ethan told Claire while she was drugged outside.

If Alex was never brought into the tests that were going on...I.e.: she was too young and not a scientist, she would have seen all these pregenant women dying and would have thought that they were killing them. Thus giving Alex the reason to say that. Futher, it means that TPTB truly knew what they were doing back then.

- is "the activation of the implant" the sickness?

That's a great theory. I was concerned when I read about the clue in the Lost jigsaw puzzle that said the ilness was a hoax. I thought maybe the writers were just going to try to sweep the illness under the rug and say it was just a lie. But with your theory it seems the Others may have implanted many people in order to scare/control the Dharma folks and mistakingly tagged Danielle's people in the process.

I don't think so. Remember, Ben told Jack that Ethan was their surgeon but the Losties killed him so now they need Jack for the operation.

Presumably, Ethan would have performed the tumor removal even after the plane crashed but Ethan's death forced their hand to use Jack instead.

You must understand that there are many types of surgeons, and they all have very different areas of expertise. A spinal surgeon is not going to be very capable of doing open heart surgery, and vice versa. Even a gifted surgeon in one area will rarely operate outside their areas of expertise.

If he has no means off the island, then he must have a means of communicating with the outside world in order to motivate her to protect her sister and nephew, in which case why couldn't he just send for another sub?

Great questions you present. I keep coming back to the original radio signal the 815'ers picked up season one. Danielle said it came from a radio tower near the Black Rock that the Others now control. She also confirmed that Mikail's communication station was not that tower. So there has to be another means of communication.

If Alex was never brought into the tests that were going on...I.e.: she was too young and not a scientist, she would have seen all these pregenant women dying and would have thought that they were killing them. Thus giving Alex the reason to say that. Futher, it means that TPTB truly knew what they were doing back then.


You know, thats an excellent point, good job!

Another question, when Juliette suggested the only way to be sure it started at conception was to remove one of the women from the island, Ben was borderline
freaked out by the idea of one of the women leaving the island. (imo)
Why? What is it they think will happen if they leave the island? Or rather, the coccoon around the island. Because they, seemingly, don't get sick in any way do they think if they leave they'll suddenly be infected by every possible germ in the world?!
Alpert and Ethan are able to come and go evidently. Why not the women?

Presumably, Ethan would have performed the tumor removal even after the plane crashed but Ethan's death forced their hand to use Jack instead.

Which makes Ben sending Ethan to the crash site all the more strange. If Ben didn't know there was a surgeon on the plane, yet had just found out that he needed surgury, why would he send the Others only surgeon on a dangerous mission? Weird.

Everyone, thank you for making this such a great thread! I never thought it would be this popular, and the questions and revelations have been great.

My guess is he's the stereotypical "mad Russian." Maybe the cold war and his seemingly lonely tasks in the Russian Army. We know that in Enter 77, he said he wanted to be left alone, like a lighthouse keeper.

I'm not sure how or if it plays into the story but no true Russian patriot would be a Nadia Comaneci fan.

If Alex was never brought into the tests that were going on...I.e.: she was too young and not a scientist, she would have seen all these pregenant women dying and would have thought that they were killing them. Thus giving Alex the reason to say that. Futher, it means that TPTB truly knew what they were doing back then.

Bravo! I'm sure, to young Alex, it definitely would have looked like they were killing the women instead of trying to save them. Excellent theory.

Another question:

If Ethan had kidnapped Claire and was administering meds to her on his own, then why were there several "others" with him searching for her when Danielle was helping her escape? I believe he yelled out to her, "stay where you are. We'll come to you." Only more proof that Juliet's info was fabricated...but by Juliet on her own or did Ben devise this specific bit of fabrication?

Quote:
Originally Posted by GodBlessTexas http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/images/FuselageGreen/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?p=1486257#post1486257)
7. The day after Ben learns he has a tumor, a spinal surgeon really does falls from the sky.

New Questions (using the same number for Answers that raise new questions):
7. Did Ben's need for a spinal surgeon and one falling from the sky the next day mean that "the box "had something to do with 815 crashing?

Wrong about the the timeline, right about the crash spec.

Using Juliet's "It'll be 3 years tomorrow", and her previous "3 years, 2 months, 28 days" comment, approximately 2 weeks passed between when Juliet told him about the tumor and the plane crashed. I did the math quickly in my head, as I watched the epi, so could be off.
Regardless, there was ample time to manipulate some events.
Remember too that Ben needed a new pregnancy to keep Juliet motivated.



I think you're both right but arguing something TPTB have calculated to be correct. If Juliet stated that tomorrow would be the third year, then some simple math tells us that 68 days later is when she confesses her time on the island to Jack at the Hydra. I haven't gone back to check the LOST timelines on the exact day Ben's operation was on in "Island Time", but that sounds about correct to correspond to her time on the island estimation, AND her announcement to Goodwin about the third year anninversary.

TPTB did their math homework before writing Juliet's line for Goodwin. It works without any bizarre time problems. My headspinner is still figuring out whether the "live feed" to Rachel was taped or truely live. Why didn't Ben simply walk her over to The Flame right after their kitchen argument and make a "live feed" happen then? Obviously because he had to get things orchestrated as he always does to appease Juliet with that phony tape.

The one thing we "learned" (or did we?) that surprised me last night and goes against my own theories about LOST is that apparently (emphasis on apparently...not definitely, just apparently) Ben and the Others did not know flight 815 was going to crash before it did. We supposedly already know that from the way they reacted in the previous episode that showed the crash from the perspective of the Others/Otherville, yet I still thought maybe Ben and some key people knew all along and just acted surprised when ordering Ethan and Goodwin to go live among them and get a "list". But last night it really seemed that Ben did not know the crash was going to happen beforehand.

I am going on the theory that "The Box" was responsible for "bringing" a doctor to the island to cure Ben. "The Box" seems to bring the very things to people that they need to be cured. i.e. Locke's Dad. Ben new that a doctor was coming, but not how or who. The question is, I guess, Why Jack and who or what is "the box"???

Another thing to add, if you believe that Jacob/Ben are able to influence people's health off Island, what do you think about Claire's psychic and his daugher's miraculous resurrection after being dead overnight? Seems likely to me they dangled a big carrot under his nose to get him to insist Claire be on 815!

I can't beleive no one has mentioned the fact that the book in question was Carrie...and Ben didn't approve of it...I wonder why. For anyone who doesn't know, Carrie was a young girl with extraordinary telekinetic powers.

Seems like a surgeon falling out of the sky ties in with this somehow no??

The story about Claire was obviously all lies because Juliet said that "it seems to happen at conception" so being on the island shouldn't affect Claire at all. So it seems that our original story that they were going to take the baby is true. However I wonder about Sun and when her conception took place - hopefully off island but I'm sure she's in danger somehow.

One more thing, since Kate and Sun are fairly close - will Kate tell Sun Juliet's story...??

Ok. We now know that Mikhail could see live video feed. Could this mean that Locke's dad was hunted down using this and bought to the island to create an illusion that "the box" can work. Could Mikhail have been told by Ben to look for a spinal surgeon, and came across Jack who could be brought to the island, pretty efficiently. Something then happened which diverted the plane, or maybe it was never going to its original destination.

If time was not different on the island and the outside world pre-failsafe, then what did Richard mean when he said time flew on the Island?

He could of meant that time seems to slip by faster. You ever notice how the day seems to be over before you know it. It's that kind of thing.

Just let it go already. time is no different on the island and in the outside world. how more obvious can it be? not everything on lost has to be a conspiracy that the writers or big bad ben are trying to pull on us.

So you're of the mind that TPTB have absolutely committed themselves to time being the same on-island as off? That's a brave opinion on a show like this. I guess we'll all just have to "wait, watch and see.." :)

My question is about Jack- Is he as gullible as it seems or does he have a plan to watch Juliet and see what happens next? Or are he and Juliet in this together to trick Ben into sending them home?

Why would you send your only surgeon to gather information? Ethan wasn't a Red Shirt, as their doctor he was a Gold Shirt! I mean, Goodwin, ok. Reliable, but not vital to their survivival (in as far as we know).

I've thought about this, as well. Either TPTB wrote themselves into a sticky corner... or perhaps Ethan and Goodwin were one of the few people in the group who could "pass" as survivors, or rather, as off-Islanders. Ethan at least was coming and going on a regular basis and wouldn't have had any trouble integrating with the crash survivors. I guess it's just one of those infernal mysteries we'll never have absolutely explained to us.

It's like when Ben treked across the island and we talked about him being unimportant, because the important people don't put themselves in danger. If Ethan was so important, and he died, you think Ben wouldn't have gone to the Losties.

But Ben didn't go to the Losties. Danielle snared him. Could Ben predict that Danielle would hand him over to the Losties?

And why did Danielle give him to the Losties? Why didn't she kill him herself?

Interesting! I still say the "off-island Others" have been monitoring at least some of the LOSTaways since way before the crash of Oceanic 815, but I like your theory of "Smokey" scanning people's memories. Wild stuff. ...Liking it. That could indeed be at least a part of what Smokey does.

I think all evidence points to the fact that the Others (inc Ben) had no idea that the plane was going to crash, nor who was on it.

I'd guess that the Others take advantage of shipwrecked people - they are a potential new source of 'citizens'. Find out as much about the person as possible, then make a decision as to whether or not they are suitable for assimilation into their little 'Cult of Jacob'. Most likely though, there had never been so many outsiders arriving on the Island at once so Ben had to think fast and order Ethan and Goodwin to get in there quick and get lists of people's names so they could do their research on them in the outside world.

I do however think that it was not pure chance that so many people with related pasts ended up on that flight, which subseqently managed to crash on an 'invisible' island. Something on that Island is manipulating fate.

My headspinner is still figuring out whether the "live feed" to Rachel was taped or truely live. Why didn't Ben simply walk her over to The Flame right after their kitchen argument and make a "live feed" happen then? Obviously because he had to get things orchestrated as he always does to appease Juliet with that phony tape.I think setting up a live feed would have required some time as well. Do you really think Richard had been loitering around Rachel's house (for who knows how long) just waiting for Ben's call?

7. The day after Ben learns he has a tumor, a spinal surgeon really does falls from the sky.

7. Did Ben's need for a spinal surgeon and one falling from the sky the next day mean that "the box "had something to do with 815 crashing?

Wrong about the the timeline, right about the crash spec.

Using Juliet's "It'll be 3 years tomorrow", and her previous "3 years, 2 months, 28 days" comment, approximately 2 weeks passed between when Juliet told him about the tumor and the plane crashed. I did the math quickly in my head, as I watched the epi, so could be off.
Regardless, there was ample time to manipulate some events.
Remember too that Ben needed a new pregnancy to keep Juliet motivated.

You might want to rewatch the episode.

At around 34:15 into the episode (from the abc.com website):
Juliet and Ben arrive at The Flame.

Mikhail: "Did you see it?"
Ben: "A plane fell out of the sky, Mikhail; of course we saw it. What do you have so far?"
Mikhail: "Oceanic flight 815... left Sydney, Australia headed for Los Angeles... 324 people on board, including the flight crew."
Ben: " I want detailed files on every single passenger."
Mikhail:"Already working on it..."
Ben: "Can we uplink to Richard in Acadia park, please?"

Ben (to Juliet): "Yesterday you called me a liar. I was hurt by that."

So, either your timeline is off, or that's a continuity error.

My mind is reeling at all of the theories, questions and "answers."

I have a little more fuel to the fire. Not sure if anyone has mentioned this, and if they have, my apologies.

Question: Why does Jack not miss a beat when Juliette says that she handcuffed herself to Kate and then lied about it? I could be forgetting some key piece of information that makes this passe, but it's something that's really stuck with me.

Comment: One of the TV screens showed news coverage about Oceanic Flight 815. It something to the effect of a "lost flight" or "missing flight" ... something like that. I can't put my finger on why, but my gut is telling me this is somehow significant.

Why has nobody said THE HATCH IMPLODED AND IT WAS FREAKY AS HELL!

sorry, its been killin me!

Why has nobody said THE HATCH IMPLODED AND IT WAS FREAKY AS HELL!

sorry, its been killin me!

Because that wasn't in this episode?

Comment: One of the TV screens showed news coverage about Oceanic Flight 815. It something to the effect of a "lost flight" or "missing flight" ... something like that. I can't put my finger on why, but my gut is telling me this is somehow significant.

Am I missing something? That would be right wouldn't it if the plane crashed on the island it would definitely be missing, no? Sorry am a little confuzzled as to why this would be a big deal...:34853_huh:

Question: Why does Jack not miss a beat when Juliette says that she handcuffed herself to Kate and then lied about it? I could be forgetting some key piece of information that makes this passe, but it's something that's really stuck with me.

Actually you bring up a good point and I didn't even notice...because if she did that, then it meant she knew the others were leaving which would indicate deception about that as well. Unless Jack is in on something with her...?? :eek2:

Why has nobody said THE HATCH IMPLODED AND IT WAS FREAKY AS HELL!

sorry, its been killin me!

People are always complaining about things that aren't said but I think we have to remember we are watching a TV show and even reality TV doesn't show us everything that people say to each other. It's not important to the plotline and it would just take up time that could be used for other things. I think we are supposed to assume that they do say this at some point. We don't want to see everything they say to each other.

I also wanted to say that I keep hearing complaints that the losties don't communicate with each other. These people have only know each other for 80 something days. I don't think it's too much of a stretch to imagine after everything that's happened and proof of having spies within their camp they might not trust anyone. I would be leery of giving up too much info too.

There is a lot of good stuff in this thread, much of which I never picked up on.

The one theory I can't even CONSIDER though, is that the Others knew the plane was coming, who was on it, or that they were watching the Losties before the crash. None of those things make sense because even if they knew the plane was coming there, they had no way of knowing who, if anyone, would survive the crash.

Why do I keep thinking that Juliette orginally told Jack that she and Ben were married but separated? Does anyone remember hearing anything like that?

I also think it's interesting to note something here about Ben that was mentioned and debated earlier in this thread and comes in to play in the whole women dying before giving birth.

Ben has stated he was born on the island, he didn't say (for obvious reasons) where he was conceived.His mother and father may have conceived him elsewhere, and like Aaron, Ben may have come to the island just before his mother gave birth, hence, no problems for him or his mother dying in childbirth.

I also think it's interesting to note something here about Ben that was mentioned and debated earlier in this thread and comes in to play in the whole women dying before giving birth.

Ben has stated he was born on the island, he didn't say (for obvious reasons) where he was conceived.His mother and father may have conceived him elsewhere, and like Aaron, Ben may have come to the island just before his mother gave birth, hence, no problems for him or his mother dying in childbirth.

Of course, it could be that the infertility issue on the island only arose in recent times. Like say, after DHARMA came to the Island. Maybe a side effect of their experiments, or something to do with 'the Sickness' assuming it ever existed.

In reply to Varadox's question, I can see where you're coming from. Remember back in Season 1 when the pilot told them that they were 1000 (i think) miles off course and everyone would be looking for them in the wrong place? I think that's why the plane is missing.

That's a really, really good point. Sawyer was thrown out of the country for headbutting the Australian Minister of Agriculture in a bar fight some time after he killed Frank Duckett and was ordered deported. It's either a very interesting new question on how they knew or a continuity error.
Oh, thank goodness you said that, I thought I was going crazy. Okay, so there was a reason I didn't remember that Sawyer was kicked out of Australia because they figured out that he killed the shrimp store guy: he wasn't! It was for headbutting the Australian Minister of Ag in a bar fight--yessssssssssss! You are right! So no one (except the Others, obviously) knows he committed that murder. I'm going to go to the transcript site just to check out that scene of Sawyer getting deported, but I think you are right, it was for a bar fight, I seem to remember that now!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Which makes so much more sense because, if the Australian authorities knew he killed the shrimp store guy, wouldn't they have arrested him for murder, versus telling him to get outta Dodge? Yessss!!! Okay, this now becomes a major example of my theory then: HOW do the Others know all that they know, unless they have been monitoring these people in some sort(s) of very sophisticated and omnipresent way when they were off-island? I mean, they know everything. You know the "implant" they put into Claire? Well I think that Locke's kidney operation was really them putting or checking or servicing some sort of implant in Locke, and maybe it has to do at least partially with monitoring his every move.
Well, we know that Peter Talbot, the rich woman's son, was able to track John down because of the medical records, though honestly in the real world that would never happen. Medical records like that are confidential due to US Federal law and protecting them happens to be what I do for a living. Still, a good Private Investigator could get access to them. Either way, if Peter could get them, even with a PI, I'm sure our seemingly well connected Others could have gotten them as well.
But the thing is, all those records would show would be that Locke donated his kidney to Cooper. NOT that Anthony conned him out of it, not how much it hurt Locke, not all about their entire relationship (which Peter Talbot didn't know, remember, he bought it when Locke said it was an anonymous donation).

No, someone needs to ask one or more of the Others just how they know what they know! I was hoping Locke would when Ben was saying "I know this and I know that". I was thinking, Locke, ask him how he knows, ASK HIM! But Locke just acted rather nonchalant about it, I thought. Of course, he plays his cards close to the vest sometimes, so maybe he had a reason for not coming out and asking. Anyway. Our best hope is that Sayid, who is virtually impossible to con, will not let everyone else get into Jack mode about Juliet and will somehow expose her for the 100% Other that she is before the week she is planning to be in camp is up!

If Alex was never brought into the tests that were going on...I.e.: she was too young and not a scientist, she would have seen all these pregenant women dying and would have thought that they were killing them. Thus giving Alex the reason to say that. Futher, it means that TPTB truly knew what they were doing back then.


Ohhh that is a good point!!
Even further the whole women die when they get pregnant thing is reason enough to not tolerate the relationship between Alex and Carl. They didnt want her to get pregnant!

You know teenagers they dont listen.
parent--> :rant: teenager--> :hissy: parent--> :wallbash:

Im Puzzled

Oh, you are right! Good remembering there, I had forgotten that the police did find the body and trace it back to Sawyer, so that would have been on the public records. Good call!


Just wondering where you saw this? All I remember from Season 1 is that Sawyer got arrested in Australia for a bar fight with some government official. But I could've missed something. I've always wondered how they knew about these kinds of things.

Great posts guys. I'm loving this thread.

Just wondering where you saw this? All I remember from Season 1 is that Sawyer got arrested in Australia for a bar fight with some government official. But I could've missed something. I've always wondered how they knew about these kinds of things. Great posts guys. I'm loving this thread.
lostinlaf, you are right. Please have a look above at post #84 (just a few posts back, don't worry, you don't have to hunt through many pages *lol*). It was a bar fight!!!!!! I'm so glad that was mentioned because I had not remembered the bit about the Australians finding the body, etc., but I just assumed that was my own lack of brain cells and not that it didn't happen. But no, turns out, it didn't, Sawyer was told to leave the country due to the bar fight. So my original question remains: How did the Others know about the shrimp store murder...unless they have been monitoring our LOSTaways from the git-go (as in, I'm thinking, from BIRTH).

edited to add: Okay, all, I found the transcript of Sawyer in the Australian Police station. His crime: headbutting! Good memory, GodBlessTexas! Here is the scene:

From source: http://www.lost-tv.com/transcripts/season1.html

"[FLASHBACK]

[We see Sawyer in a police station in Australia.]

CALDERWOOD: You remember me? 3 nights ago? You were hauled in here thrashing and fighting. As you were being escorted by you kicked my desk. And you broke my mug.

SAWYER: Nice kids.

CALDERWOOD: Sadly for you, breaking my mug was not the most significant mistake you made that evening.

SAWYER: C'mon, Doctor, I got into a bar fight. Isn't that a badge of honor in this country?

CALDERWOOD: Do you know who you head-butted in that bar? You head-butted the Honorable Warren Truss, Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries, and Forestry. One of the most important...

SAWYER: He head-butted me.

CALDERWOOD: We have witnesses he did no such thing.

SAWYER: Of course.

CALDERWOOD: You think this is funny, James? [he opens a file folder] James Ford, assault, wire fraud, identity theft, bank fraud, telemarketing fraud...

SAWYER: This going some place?

CALDERWOOD: You're a blight, a stain, a scavenger. You're a conman who prays on the weak and the needy. Tell me something, James, how do you live with yourself?

SAWYER: I do just fine.

CALDERWOOD: Do you? You're not even worth what it would cost us to incarcerate you which is why you're being deported. Your plane leaves this afternoon. And, James, [can't make out what he says] setting foot in Australia again.

SAWYER: Don't you worry, I ain't ever coming back here.

CALDERWOOD: Best not, mate."

So, how did the Others know that Sawyer killed the poor shrimp store guy? I submit again to you that they couldn't know that unless they were monitoring Sawyer somehow, pre-crash of Flight 815.

why is Ben hellbent on fixing the problem of conception on the island causing a terminated pregnancy? And why is he so hellbent on staying on the Island?

They might be having a problem recruiting people so, the smart thing to do is to have people born on the island. This way the kids will grow up with a loyalty to the people and the island.

As far as him wanted to stay on the island, I would say that he is afraid. He said that he has spent his whole life on the island. I think he thinks he would not know how to fit in with society. The others society has their own set of rules and moral values. Alex said it is "an eye for an eye". Also, he could be afraid of Jacob and what leaving the island might do for his relationship with him.

1. What I want to know is how far back does Juliet's con go? Did she know that she and Jack would not be able to leave? It's obvious that she wants to leave very much. And her trial and marking, was that all a part of the hoax. The whole scene where she brings Jack a sandwich and he treats her mark... was it just a set up? Was she sent there by Ben to get Jack to invest emotionally in her so that he'd take her with him to their camp?

2. Ben said there was no way off the island without the underwater beacon. Was he lying? And did he tell Juliet that he had another way off? If so, was he lying to her?

3. another question: Were they attempting to kidnap Sun at the beginning of Season 3 when she was circling the island with Sayid and Jin? And if so, was it because they knew she was pregnant, and how would they know that?

Questions Questions Questions!!
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RYC Lockefan:
That's what I thought. I'm glad I'm not the only one perplexed about this issue. Now, it is possible that in the 80+ days since the crash that the body of the man was found and traced back to Sawyer. Especially since the plane crash would have brought attention to his being in Australia... Just one more possibility. Maybe Hibbs was brought in and questioned and gave up Sawyer. Who knows.

So, how did the Others know that Sawyer killed the poor shrimp store guy? I submit again to you that they couldn't know that unless they were monitoring Sawyer somehow, pre-crash of Flight 815.

The simplest explanation is that the police investigated the shrimp store owner's murder and discovered the most likely suspect to be Sawyer. Maybe there was a witness we didn't see at the scene. Maybe they traced the bullet or gun back to the man who sold it to Sawyer. Who knows? Suffice to say, the Others do know what Sawyer did, and I wouldn't be surprised if it's never explained how...

The simplest explanation is that the police investigated the shrimp store owner's murder and discovered the most likely suspect to be Sawyer. Maybe there was a witness we didn't see at the scene. Maybe they traced the bullet or gun back to the man who sold it to Sawyer. Who knows? Suffice to say, the Others do know what Sawyer did, and I wouldn't be surprised if it's never explained how...


There's another theory, too, which is that they can somehow read Sawyer's own mind.
When Mikhail is 'gathering interlligence' part of it might be reading the memories of the
crash survivors. I can't say how he would do that, but it's a possibility.

Good questions - been wondering about Juliet's motivations too since the sub blew up.

Only thing I can think of is she's afraid of what Ben/Jacob could do. Here's my thinking:

1. I still find it incredible (literally) that Juliet says the only way she'd take the Mittlos job is if her ex-husband is hit by a bus, and then, the next day, HE IS!

2. She's told that Jacob/Ben will cure her sister's cancer and it happens (at least she believes it happens).

If Juliet is led to believe that Ben/Jacob can cause both of those things to occur, she may be afraid of what might happen if she doesn't leave the island/Ben in a happy, satisfied state. If Ben/Jacob can cause a bus to kill her husband, what could be lurking out there for her if she gets back to the real world and Ben is unhappy with her.

That's the only motivation I can think of...maybe she thinks Ben/Jacob is all powerful and can get her off the island and subsequently leave her and her family alone if she makes Ben happy.

________________________________________
What I really want to know is what is Juliette's motivation to continue helping Ben now that the Flame station and the sub are destroyed? Ben seems to lack any means of contacting the outside world, and claims to have no other means off the island. Assuming that those two are correct, what could she possibly get from continuing to help Ben?

Certainly Ben could be lying, but in order to gain Juliette's trust he would have to do more than just tell her he can get her off the island. She knows he's a liar and would require more than just his word. If he has another means off the island then he is breaking his word to Jack, and she would know that. If he has no means off the island, then he must have a means of communicating with the outside world in order to motivate her to protect her sister and nephew, in which case why couldn't he just send for another sub? Which would again mean he is lying to Jack and Juliette knows it. I can't seem to find any credible reason why she would help Ben.

While forming my points for the previous paragraph I remembered what Ben told Jack about no one returning to the island after the sub left due to the destruction of the Flame station. If that is the case, does that mean there will be no further Dharma food drops? If a ship is unable to find their way to the island, how will a plane?
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Haven't put it all together yet, but let's not forget the x-ray Juliet examined in NIP that showed a woman whose uterus did not appear to be "age appropriate" (I forget if the woman is old and the uterus young, or vice versa).

It could be that time elapses the same on-island/off-island, but that people age at a different rate because of the island. If so, there may be hazards of taking a woman off the island because age might "catch up" with her.

Like I said...haven't figured it all out - but think the oddity of the woman's uterus from NIP connects here somewhere.

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You know, thats an excellent point, good job!

Another question, when Juliette suggested the only way to be sure it started at conception was to remove one of the women from the island, Ben was borderline
freaked out by the idea of one of the women leaving the island. (imo)
Why? What is it they think will happen if they leave the island? Or rather, the coccoon around the island. Because they, seemingly, don't get sick in any way do they think if they leave they'll suddenly be infected by every possible germ in the world?!
Alpert and Ethan are able to come and go evidently. Why not the women?

Regarding the question of whether Ben knew the plane was going to crash, I don't think he did. But I do think the Island/Jacob/The Box brought that specific group of people or at least some of them to the island for a reason. For example, they needed a control pregnancy subject, and the psychic at first didn't want anything to do with Claire but then mysteriously changed his tune, insisting that she get on that plane.

If time was not different on the island and the outside world pre-failsafe, then what did Richard mean when he said time flew on the Island?
This was one of the "smaller" questions, but here's an answer:

Richard was reassuring Juliet that the "six months" she was gonna be away from her sister was gonna fly by. So Juliet wasn't to despair about Rachel. Just a phrase, not having any double meaning (for a change)!

I think the biggest things we learned here were Juliet's entire purpose for being on the island, why Claire was kidnapped, and what the major problem the Others are having actually is. I feel like looking back at my Season 1 self and saying, "Ha! Some of the story make sooooo much sense now!!!"

My question is about Jack- Is he as gullible as it seems or does he have a plan to watch Juliet and see what happens next? Or are he and Juliet in this together to trick Ben into sending them home?

I had the same thought - I wonder what the deal is with Jack right now. I mean, is he a golden retriever (cute, but a little dopey), or a german shepherd (smart, but lots o' teeth - and a funny play on a last name)?

Oh, thank goodness you said that, I thought I was going crazy. Okay, so there was a reason I didn't remember that Sawyer was kicked out of Australia because they figured out that he killed the shrimp store guy: he wasn't! It was for headbutting the Australian Minister of Ag in a bar fight--yessssssssssss! You are right! So no one (except the Others, obviously) knows he committed that murder. I'm going to go to the transcript site just to check out that scene of Sawyer getting deported, but I think you are right, it was for a bar fight, I seem to remember that now!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Which makes so much more sense because, if the Australian authorities knew he killed the shrimp store guy, wouldn't they have arrested him for murder, versus telling him to get outta Dodge? Yessss!!!

The post made me laugh because you can totally tell how you talk IRL - it's so funny! The excitement of a piece that now fits comes through completely! :lol2:

But the thing is, all those records would show would be that Locke donated his kidney to Cooper. NOT that Anthony conned him out of it, not how much it hurt Locke, not all about their entire relationship (which Peter Talbot didn't know, remember, he bought it when Locke said it was an anonymous donation).


Yeah... you're right. I've been contemplating how they know intimate, personal details - not just stuff you can find in a background check, but what everyone's real inner weakness is, too. Either they're better profilers than the FBI, or they've got something else going on - more than just a satellite hookup. Could be that they have access to databases that they shouldn't - making them the ultimate hackers. But that doesn't explain how they know things that wouldn't be on a record anywhere - even private ones. I wonder if that's another reason they kidnapped Walt (besides manipulating Michael)? I sense almost a Minority Report vibe here - maybe one or more of the group is psychic?
It always bothered me that we never found out more about Walt's abilities, and how they might play into the larger game. I feel like we can usually explain most things in this show with logic and science (even if, in the end, we're wrong, and it turns out to be more fantasy than scientific, there's still always a more earthly explanation). But telekineses and precognition? Um, sorry, but I've got nothing for you there in the science books.

Ohhh that is a good point!!
Even further the whole women die when they get pregnant thing is reason enough to not tolerate the relationship between Alex and Carl. They didnt want her to get pregnant!

You know teenagers they dont listen.
parent--> :rant: teenager--> :hissy: parent--> :wallbash:


I never even thought of that. That makes so much sense!!! And what a fantastic visual representation!!! :biggrin:

I noticed that Ben got a tumor while Locke got healed.

It could be an "exchange" of leadership that the island wants.

Think about it. The island wants a new leader, (island could be Jacob)
and brings Locke to the island to heal him (healing him would be a sign
to the Others that Locke is like a "Chosen One") while giving Ben a tumor
to get rid of him.

Note: If the "island" is considered a character in the story, then maybe we
should be capitalizing it: Island. That would make Smokie an
extension of the Island.

I've ALWAYS capitalized "Island," Papa! :biggrin:

Hard to know why Ben got the tumor. It was two days AFTER the tumor was discovered (and it must've been there for awhile) that the plane crashed--and Locke was healed. Hard to know why Locke was healed.

It's hard to know a lot of things on this show. :down:

Ok that post about Alex and Karl is brilliant...of course - Ben wouldn't want his "daughter" to get pregnant. I didn't even think of that. Now I have to go back and check out the brainwashing vid stuff...Was that to keep Karl away from Alex or just to turn him off sex...like in A Clockwork Orange?? Wow that ties in nicely doesn't it.

Ben claim he was born on the island. So who is Ben's parents? were they born on the island too. Could Jacob be Ben's father?
I am very intrigued by Ben's origins and I hope he does have a fb episode this season that sheds some light on this. It's interesting to me that Ben told Jack he'd lived on the island all his life, rather than that he was born there. Might not mean anything, but considering how Ben likes to twist what he says so that it's a lie but not really... it could be important. And yeah, was he also conceived there? That would mean that once people could conceive and have a successful pregnancy on the Island once upon a time and that something happened since that screwed that up.

Other thoughts: I don't think Ben and The Others ever cured Juliet's sister. I believe Ben was truthful when he said her sister was ok and then showed the video-feed, but he lied when he said she'd had a relapse. It's just like with Claire in the episode: Claire was not ill the way Juliet described it and Juliet didn't cure her, she just turned off whatever the implant was doing. In both instances the con was setup to manipulate people: Ben manipulated Juliet into staying and continuing her work, then Juliet (and Ben) manipulated the Losties into trusting Juliet more.

About Jack. I know lots of people think he's gullible because he trusts Juliet. I'm not so sure he does trust her 100%. What he told her when she asked why she doesn't have to explain anything to him was that he knows she wants off the island. And that is the truth: whatever she's doing, she wants deseperately to get off the island. Maybe Jack has an ulterior motive for keeping her around? After all, he knows she can be devious. He saw her play out her plan to get him to kill Ben after all. I think it will be interesting to see what happens once The Others hit the Losties at beach camp...

Since I like Jack I really hope you are right, MIMI!!
I don't think he's as dopey as he seems, getting Kate and Sawyer away from Alcatraz Island and securing his and Juliette's release was very well played even if Locke messed that up. Someone else has mentioned also that Juliette is valuable to the Others so the losties have a card to play here. I would like to see anybody try to capture and restrain Juliette though, she can be so fierce.

Why all the confusion over knowing about Sawyer killing the guy? Two obvious ways they could know this--

1) Sawyer was in captivity for a while, perhaps they drugged him and interrogated him.
2) (more likely) They have lots of money and resources. They had investigators looking into each of the Losties and came across Sawyer's associate who sent him to Australia, bribed him well and heard the whole story. Then saw that the guy had been murdered and put 2 and 2 together.

TK421, one thing I was wondering is whether Jack wanted Juliet along because he knows she's still with the Others. Maybe he wants her as a kind of hostage if something happens in the future? I just can't believe that he would trust her as unquestioningly as he appears to do after all he's seen her do. Sure, he also saw her mark and knows she killed Pickett, but still... I just can't believe Jack would be that trusting.

Answers:

4. Mikhail could view real-time video feeds from what looked to be several different sources from around the world. The satellite dish on top of The Flame would have been able to grab Ku and C band satellite feeds, and the C band can be used for high speed (yet high latency) data transfers, so this makes sense.

The transmission of any satellite feed has a built-in latency. If the satellites used to communicate are in geo-synchronous orbit, this latency is, at a minimum, a half a second. Period. Regardless of what frequency you are using, this latency is the same. The speed of light is the same for all frequencies making this trip.

New Questions (using the same number for Answers that raise new questions):
1. Why did Goodwin seem so good to Juliet and the rest of the Others, but could easily murder one of the tailsection survivors? Was it because Nathan was not good? He certainly thought Ana Lucia was good and worthy.I've said it before and I'll say it again--the Others appear to do whatever is necessary to protect their knowledge and secrecy.

2&3: Was Ben lying when he said that Rachel's cancer had returned, using it to manipulate Juliet? My guess is that they had nothing to do with curing Rachel of cancer because she never had a reactivation of it.So far, anytime Ben says something that is on the more extreme side of the emotionally manipulative scale, it almost always is not true.

5. If time was not different on the island and the outside world pre-failsafe, then what did Richard mean when he said time flew on the Island?I took this as a little inside joke for us hard core fans. I laughed out loud when he said that. No one else in the room did nor did they get why I was laughing.

6. Is Juliet working with/for Ben, or is she working on her own agenda?Yes.

7. Did Ben's need for a spinal surgeon and one falling from the sky the next day mean that "the box "had something to do with 815 crashing?I don't think we will find out the absolute truth behind this until near the very end of the series. Just my personal opinion.

8. If the others just wanted to save Claire, why did Alex help her escape telling her that they were planning on killing her? It would seem that this was the case in regards to the story Ethan told Claire while she was drugged outside.If I had to take a wild guess, I'd say Claire was a lab rat and considered completely expendable. They were going to take Aaron and raise him as their own. At best, Claire would have been sewn up and dumped in the woods somewhere.

9. The baby issue: Ben was supposedly born on the island, and Danielle was able to have Alex after shipwrecking there. If that's the case, did the the fertility issues start happening around 16 years ago / 1988, or was Danielle far enough along that it was no longer an issue.All evidence so far points to the Others being the only ones with the issue. If there is anything to be extrapolated out of what Locke said about cheating, I think it is that the island is punishing the Others. Not being able to have babies was one way. Then it expanded to Ben getting cancer.

I think the underlying theme is that when the Others were hostiles and living off the island like the Losties and Danielle are, they were fine. It was when they took the place of Dharma that their world began to unravel.

If what Patchy said was true about the hostiles being there a very long time, it only stands to reason that they weren't having birth issues.

10. If Sun got pregnant, was it pre or post crash? If pre, which all the evidence supports at this time, what effect will it have on her baby? If post, are she and the baby doomed?I don't know that we will get the answer this season, but I have a feeling this question is going to become even more relevant very soon in the coming episodes.

Why all the confusion over knowing about Sawyer killing the guy? Two obvious ways they could know this--

1) Sawyer was in captivity for a while, perhaps they drugged him and interrogated him.
2) (more likely) They have lots of money and resources. They had investigators looking into each of the Losties and came across Sawyer's associate who sent him to Australia, bribed him well and heard the whole story. Then saw that the guy had been murdered and put 2 and 2 together.

How about -- they know Sawyer killed a guy because they're the ones who arranged to have him do it?

Has anyone considered that the sub is a kind of red-herring?

Just because Julliette woke up in the sub doesn't mean that she traveled in it. The sub is definately a short-range transport. So there's a whole process in travel that we're missing.

div2n, I agree that they considered Claire expendable. They were interested in her because she provided a test case for them: a woman who had conceived off the island. Exactly what Juliet was looking for. IMO everything Juliet told the Losties about Ethan and the serum and Claire is totally suspect.

I like your ideas about The Others/Hostiles getting into trouble once they started "cheating" by taking over some of Dharma's stuff. I'm dying to see the eps with Ben flashbacks and finding out more about Dharma. That should be good!

Funny too...when you think about it, Ben would be trying to do what he thinks is right - hence his opinion that the Others " are the good guys". Now I'm not justifying all the chaos the Others have created and all the bad that they've done, but if the last few episodes have shown us anything, its that sometimes what we first thought was going on, isn't actually the whole, true story. And the bad sometimes actually turns out to be good.

_________________________________
Ok that post about Alex and Karl is brilliant...of course - Ben wouldn't want his "daughter" to get pregnant. I didn't even think of that. Now I have to go back and check out the brainwashing vid stuff...Was that to keep Karl away from Alex or just to turn him off sex...like in A Clockwork Orange?? Wow that ties in nicely doesn't it.

The transmission of any satellite feed has a built-in latency. If the satellites used to communicate are in geo-synchronous orbit, this latency is, at a minimum, a half a second. Period. Regardless of what frequency you are using, this latency is the same. The speed of light is the same for all frequencies making this trip.



Right. I threw it in because I knew that, having worked with satellite communications in the past. I didn't think I had to be pedantic about it. :)

Question: Why does Jack not miss a beat when Juliette says that she handcuffed herself to Kate and then lied about it? I could be forgetting some key piece of information that makes this passe, but it's something that's really stuck with me.

I notice that too! Jack was acting strange. When Kate went to see Jack in Left behind", he was still knock out from the gas...or was he?:eek2: Everyone else was up. Sayid had plenty of time to check out the whole camp,yet Jack was still out?!:confused: I do not think Jack was gassed at all.I think Jack might have made some type of deal with Ben. You know, Last season "One of them" was the episode in which we discover that Ben was a other. Well, this episode in entitle "One of Us", which could indicate that maybe one of the fuselage survivors is working for Ben.(re: Jack..

Dang good questions. I think all of them got implants, and I think it likely could be the sickness.

..That could be true, considering that when Jack, Sawyer and Kate were capture they all had a needle prick, and was thirsty. So maybe they did implant something in them.

Which makes Ben sending Ethan to the crash site all the more strange. If Ben didn't know there was a surgeon on the plane, yet had just found out that he needed surgury, why would he send the Others only surgeon on a dangerous mission? Weird.

Ben originally sent Ethan out to make a list only. It was Ethan idea to bring Claire back. Tom told Ethan that bring Claire back wasn't part of the plan. So maybe Ethan was acting alone when he went to demand Claire back from Charlie,which would explain why he didn't have a gun, or back up.

Another thing to add, if you believe that Jacob/Ben are able to influence people's health off Island, what do you think about Claire's psychic and his daugher's miraculous resurrection after being dead overnight? Seems likely to me they dangled a big carrot under his nose to get him to insist Claire be on 815!

I think Jacob could be someone who travel all over..considering that he was able to cure Juliet sister (If you believe that Juliet's sister was actually cure by Jacob) .Is it possible that the survivor had all came in contact with Jacob , prior to landing on the island? could Jacob have been the one to cure Jack's wife Sarah? in the bible Jacob have a twin, and Ben is the son of Jacob. Note: ..for some reason, I think Jack /or his father will turn out to be Jacob. I think Jacob will be someone we had seen before. The reason why I think Jack will be Jacob is because when anyone ask the others about Jacob they say he's a good man". Jack , we know is a good man. We know that Jacob heals people. Jack supposedly healed Sarah. If Jacob was off healing Juliet's sister, than that must mean, he wasn't on the island at that time. So could Jacob have been on flight 815? ..after all Jack was the only survivor to awaken in the middle of the jungle..far away from everyone else.
...and the only reason why I think Jacob might turn out to be Jack's father, is because of what I have read on other message boards, and the fact that Christian Sherpard is the only one who came in contact with 3 of the survivors , before the plane crash.


Also, I never got that Ben was born on the lsland- I took it as he considers that his life began on the day he came to the island?????? Just a thought.
Ben claim he was born on the island,but since he lies, we can not be sure if he actually was,or that he is lying. Maybe the reason why Ben do not want anyone to leave the island, is because he himself, can't leave the island?:confused: sorta like when Locke blew the flame station, and Sub, to prevent anyone from leaving, because he do not want to be left alone.

So by now must people probably figure that Juliet is there to keep a watch on Claire or baby Aaron...but I do not think that is the reason she there. Juliet need to find out if the mothers get sick at the started at conception ,or do it happen to all women, so Juliet is actually there to monitor her test subject......Kate! Kate and Sawyer having cage sex, was planned by Ben..which explain why they allow Kate to shower, and gave her a change of clothes. They gave her a nice new dress, in order for her to look pretty for Sawyer. They pretended like they were going to kill Sawyer , so Kate would feel like this was her last chance to see him. Than they left them alone. ( Note: Picket telling Sawyer not to touch Kate,would make him want her all the more). It was all planned from the start, but Danny wanted to kill them. Juliet shot Danny, not to save Kate, and Sawyer ( Note: Sawyer once told Kate that he was sure that Juliet was going to kill her.) but to save her test subjects. So Juliet is there to find out if Kate is pregnant, and to check on Sun.

Wow, it makes perfect sense iamlost2 - I think their new subject is Kate : they would find if a woman who is not an other can get pregnant with the conception on the island. After all there was a recurrent theme with Kate and pregnancy...

I thought of something else : anyone thinks Mikhail is not dead? Apart from the fact that the writers hinted at this (jokingly or not I don't know) he might have had an implant as well that would make him look like he was dead. An implant that he could activate whenever he wanted. That would explain why the sonic fence wasn't working when Juliet and Kate ran to it. And implicate John Locke a little more with the Others (because he would have rescued Mikhail then). I have the feeling that Mikhail will be back.

The episodes I would like most to see now are the flashbacks of Danielle, Alex, Ben, Mikhail and Jack (and Christian's father)

Wow, it makes perfect sense iamlost2 - I think their new subject is Kate : they would find if a woman who is not an other can get pregnant with the conception on the island. After all there was a recurrent theme with Kate and pregnancy...

...It also would explain why Juliet want Kate to trust her. Juliet want Kate to be able to confide in her, and let her know the moment she find out that she is pregnant..

An upcoming episode is entitle D.O.C which stand for "date of conception".Most people probably think that it about Sun, which is true. But I bet it about Kate as well. Mikhailis suppose to appear in this episode as well, so either he appear in flashback, or he's not really dead.


The episodes I would like most to see now are the flashbacks of Danielle, Alex, Ben, Mikhail and Jack (and Christian's father)

An Danielle flashback is long over due. When should have been an had one. I hope we get one this season.

So by now must people probably figure that Juliet is there to keep a watch on Claire or baby Aaron...but I do not think that is the reason she there. Juliet need to find out if the mothers get sick at the started at conception ,or do it happen to all women, so Juliet is actually there to monitor her test subject......Kate! Kate and Sawyer having cage sex, was planned by Ben..which explain why they allow Kate to shower, and gave her a change of clothes. They gave her a nice new dress, in order for her to look pretty for Sawyer. They pretended like they were going to kill Sawyer , so Kate would feel like this was her last chance to see him. Than they left them alone. ( Note: Picket telling Sawyer not to touch Kate,would make him want her all the more). It was all planned from the start, but Danny wanted to kill them. Juliet shot Danny, not to save Kate, and Sawyer ( Note: Sawyer once told Kate that he was sure that Juliet was going to kill her.) but to save her test subjects. So Juliet is there to find out if Kate is pregnant, and to check on Sun.

Wow, this does make sense but if true, that means Kate is in danger....oh dear...I hope not but it does make a lot of sense. :eek2:

he might have had an implant as well that would make him look like he was dead. An implant that he could activate whenever he wanted. That would explain why the sonic fence wasn't working when Juliet and Kate ran to it. And implicate John Locke a little more with the Others (because he would have rescued Mikhail then). I have the feeling that Mikhail will be back.

After seeing Claire bleeding from the mouth, this kinda makes sense as well...cool. I realize they could be going in a different direction but it is odd that no one has come across his body as of yet.

Mikhail: "Oceanic flight 815... left Sydney, Australia headed for Los Angeles... 324 people on board, including the flight crew."
Ben: " I want detailed files on every single passenger."
Mikhail:"Already working on it..."

Wait. Ben didn't say he wanted files on everyone aboard. He said he wanted files on the passengers. And given that Mikhail just made the distinction between crew and passengers, I think we're meant to notice Ben's specific word choice. Why wouldn't Ben want information about the crew? As Cindy prooves, any or all of them could have survived. I think this implies Ben knew the flight crew, and that the crew knew about the island.

TK421, one thing I was wondering is whether Jack wanted Juliet along because he knows she's still with the Others. Maybe he wants her as a kind of hostage if something happens in the future? I just can't believe that he would trust her as unquestioningly as he appears to do after all he's seen her do. Sure, he also saw her mark and knows she killed Pickett, but still... I just can't believe Jack would be that trusting.

TK421 & Mimmi, I too, have been ruminating about Jack's behavior. It certainly seems out of character for the Jack we have come to know. I would like to believe that he does have a plan which he is keeping to himself and that plan would involve getting to know her better to find out her weaknesses.
I would hope that this isn't another hard lesson for him to learn while on the island that he IS too trusting; that there are limits to trust and he should know those boundaries. He's taken on the safety and security of the remainder of the Losties and for him to jeopardize that......there will be hell to pay. I'm also hoping that what Ben told him about Juliet, "....no matter what you think of her, she's still one of us", is on his mind and is playing poker. He is a pretty good poker player. Let's not forget that.

Wait. Ben didn't say he wanted files on everyone aboard. He said he wanted files on the passengers. And given that Mikhail just made the distinction between crew and passengers, I think we're meant to notice Ben's specific word choice. Why wouldn't Ben want information about the crew? As Cindy prooves, any or all of them could have survived. I think this implies Ben knew the flight crew, and that the crew knew about the island.


Could be quite true... But if you're going to ask for a list of people on a plane, you might just ask for a list of the passengers. We commonly say things like "how many passengers survived" when referring to everyone on a plane.

Still, a crew that was allied with the Others would make some sense.

Consider:

None of the crew was left with the Losties (they died, were killed, or were taken).

The pilot's estimate of the flight time contradicts that of others.

If you were going to intentionally direct the plane to the island, the crew would, naturally, be the group to conspire with.

Wait. Ben didn't say he wanted files on everyone aboard. He said he wanted files on the passengers. And given that Mikhail just made the distinction between crew and passengers, I think we're meant to notice Ben's specific word choice. Why wouldn't Ben want information about the crew? As Cindy prooves, any or all of them could have survived. I think this implies Ben knew the flight crew, and that the crew knew about the island.


If the Others and the flight crew were in cahoots about bringing the plane to the Island, then why would he suddenly be asking Mikhael to track down the details of the passengers. He would already have them.

Another question:
Where was the Mittelos land-based lab? Is that where the sub left from? What else is in that lab complex? Was that supposed to be somewhere near Portland? I thought I saw palm trees but that could just be a filming thing...<