Discuss the good and bad about the episode. If you totally loved the episode or totally didn't love the episode and do not wish to discuss the pros and cons, please visit the Loved it or Didn't Love it threads.

pros of the episode..we got more des time. and i loved the fact that he was so unsure of whether or not to let charlie die. he believed that the love of his life was coming to the island and the only way he would get to her would be if he followed everything perfectly. i think it showed that he was human and not some eternally good soul.

cons..im getting sick of the jack/kate/sawyer storyline. it better be going somewhere.

Good story tonight. Didn't like too much the Kate / Sawyer storyline, but hey, there was more of Kate shown (that was a bonus).

I enjoyed the whistling on the beach (reminds me of the Breakfast Club--I know weird). Nonetheless, Hurley's understanding of Japanese is getting palatable.

I enjoyed the episode but I'm getting more mixed feelings about Desmond, am not liking him as much as I did originally. I guess it's because he keeps running away from commitment?

And I wonder...if he had not saved Charlie would the woman parachutist have been Penny? In saving Charlie, Desmond changed what happened...and so it was a different woman, not Penny.

The Desmond they so painstakingly presented to us before this eppy would NEVER have been happy, reunited with his true love, if he'd had to let a man die for the reunion to take place. They killed that Desmond in this eppy, and I am heartbroken.

And I think revealing that the parachutist WASN'T Penny was meant to be an irony--all that effort made, and it was never Penny in the first place! (No, I don't think Charlie's being saved changed who'd parachuted in THE NIGHT BEFORE. That's too jump the shark even for the LOST honchos!)

Good story tonight. Didn't like too much the Kate / Sawyer storyline, but hey, there was more of Kate shown (that was a bonus).

I enjoyed the whistling on the beach (reminds me of the Breakfast Club--I know weird). Nonetheless, Hurley's understanding of Japanese is getting palatable.

I was thinking Stand By Me when i saw them walking down the beach whistling, lol (although I think they were singing, not whistling)
but i totally get your Breakfast Club image :biggrin:

OK, if someone here has already made this comment, then please ignore my post.

Most of the Character Subsequent Flashbacks proceed forward in time from the previous flashback.

Desmonds Flashback tonight was earlier in time that his previous flashback. Anything unique with that?

Over all a good show tonight.

After Charlie found the Hula Doll, then they all subsequently found the backpack, there was a book inside right? It looked like the title was "Some random word/foreign word - 22"

Anyone know if it was the word "Catch" in a different language?

Good ep tonight! Can't wait for nextweeks!

Good:
-Creepy Flashes
-Good cliffhanger, something essential in a Lost episode
-Kate. Nuff said.
-Finding how Desmond met Penny
-Funny scene in middle at campfire, but not too much humor
-Questions created as to the cable, helicopter
-Sex
-Jacket. Love me some Jacket.

Bad:
-Limited focus
-Predictable, something that prevents me from giving an episode a 9 or 10
-Forced dialogue between Skack
-Middle twenty minutes dispensible
-Majority of flashbacks unexciting

Overall a 7/10

I liked it. I think that seeing Desmond not so sweet and quite but actually lashing out at Charlie was totally spot on. How long would it take the average person to snap under his situation? He wants to be back with Penny more than anything. I saw it much like when Michael killed Libby and AL to save Walt. It wasn't right, and he knew it, but to save his son he'd do anything! I'm a parent and I'd do the same thing if I thought it would save my child. Now true love, I believe, has the same passion as a parent protecting their child. But the fact is that Desmond didn't let Charlie die. He still was honorable and sacrificed his chance to be with Penny to save Charlie.

I also loved his back story. Seeing him, yet again, trying to find his place in the world was wonderful. I felt sorry for Ruth. Getting dumped at the alter has to be horrible but I commend Des for coming back to explain why to her. It may have been prompted for the wrong reasons (a punch in the nose) but he came back none the less and that took guts. And the meeting for the first time of Des and Penny was just so wonderful! Truly love at first sight.

I liked this eppy. It didn't have all the power of previous Des-centric epps but it was powerful and, I think, it shed some light on why Des is the way he is. He's obviously been a man that's been searching for his place in the world and while he's made a lot of wrong turns, who of us hasn't?, he keeps trying and never gives up. Des is just SUPER!

As for the Kate/Sawyer/Jack thing. I just ignore those moments as they bore me so I don't even care. I ignore them so that they don't detract from the story for me. I'm ok with it ... they really are just people that don't affect me at all. LOL Poor mixed up little kids is what they are.

I felt bad that it wasn't Penny but knew it wouldn't be. It's just too soon for her to show up on the island but I still liked the angst that Des went through thinking it was her. Yet again my poor Scott gets shot down. :frown: But I have faith that they will be reunited!

And I think revealing that the parachutist WASN'T Penny was meant to be an irony--all that effort made, and it was never Penny in the first place! (No, I don't think Charlie's being saved changed who'd parachuted in THE NIGHT BEFORE. That's too jump the shark even for the LOST honchos!)
Thank you. I've been looking for someone who shares this opinion. Now, I just need to figure out WHY Desmond believed this could posisbly be true (that changing the present would alter the past). :undecide:

Thank you. I've been looking for someone who shares this opinion. Now, I just need to figure out WHY Desmond believed this could posisbly be true (that changing the present would alter the past). :undecide:I'd say it's rather obvious. He traveled back in time to get a chance to change things. That should make him think that altering things that he sees in his flashes can possibly change their outcome.

I'd say it's rather obvious. He traveled back in time to get a chance to change things. That should make him think that altering things that he sees in his flashes can possibly change their outcome.
That is true when you go BACK in time. By the time Charlie was going to die, whoever was in the helicopter would already BE IN the helicopter (or would have already crashed, whichever). Without reasons of illogical "magic," the person in the helicopter would not and could not have (1) "morphed" into a different person or (2) ceased to exist at all.

unless we're missing something about penny I'm not real sure she could fly a helicopter anyways.

That is true when you go BACK in time. By the time Charlie was going to die, whoever was in the helicopter would already BE IN the helicopter (or would have already crashed, whichever). Without reasons of illogical "magic," the person in the helicopter would not and could not have (1) "morphed" into a different person or (2) ceased to exist at all.But my point was (sorry I didn't make it more clear ... was dashing out to go to work) that he traveled back in time ... how many people do that? ;) He's seen things that defy "logic" so why not think he could change events that "seemed' to have already happened. And remember, he told Charlie that things that he sees change sometimes. He was hoping ... hope reigns eternal.

But my point was (sorry I didn't make it more clear ... was dashing out to go to work) that he traveled back in time ... how many people do that? ;) He's seen things that defy "logic" so why not think he could change events that "seemed' to have already happened. And remember, he told Charlie that things that he sees change sometimes. He was hoping ... hope reigns eternal.
OK, I understand what you're saying. I still think it's somewhat of a cop out on the writers' part. To give us this nonsensical plot line, and then use the excuse of "Well, that's what Desmond thought."

OK, I understand what you're saying. I still think it's somewhat of a cop out on the writers' part. To give us this nonsensical plot line, and then use the excuse of "Well, that's what Desmond thought."Oh I don't see it as nonsensical. If he'd known it wasn't going to be Penny then there wouldn't have been the urgency. He was in a Catch 22. He was damned if he let Charlie die and damned if he saved him and lost Penny. While I knew it couldn't be Penny because it's just too soon for her to arrive on the island if they want to go another 1 or 2 seasons, I did fall into the whole urgency of it so that I could get the writer's intent. I think it worked. It did for me anyway. ;)

Oh I don't see it as nonsensical. If he'd known it wasn't going to be Penny then there wouldn't have been the urgency. He was in a Catch 22. He was damned if he let Charlie die and damned if he saved him and lost Penny. While I knew it couldn't be Penny because it's just too soon for her to arrive on the island if they want to go another 1 or 2 seasons, I did fall into the whole urgency of it so that I could get the writer's intent. I think it worked. It did for me anyway. ;)
It can't be both ways. It's either nonsense on the writers' part (which it often is) or it's nonsense on Desmond's part for - for some reason - believing that Penny would cease to exist if he saved Charlie.

Hurley's understanding of Japanese is getting palatable.


Jin speaks Korean.

I really liked this episode, it was pretty funny plus I think that it ties a lot of things together. Of course, it depends on your perspective.

I've been convinced for a while that among other works, this show borrows heavily from SK's "The Stand".

In that light I think this episode pretty much gave us some proof that Desmond's path is being guided by a higher power. The relationship between Catch 22 and Genesis 22, the appearance of the prophetic Ms. Hawkin and the inference that the intrepid Penny is hot on his trail all would appear to be setting us up for what is to come.

I also thought that the writers did a fairly good job in making us wonder how Desmond would react in the final moment. I know I wasn't sure what would happen.

Plus - added bonus clue here ...maybe,

The sat phone that they found doesn't look anything like any sat phone being manufactured today, let alone 3 years ago. It had a touch screen and looked more like an iPhone. So, was it artistic license, or a clue that much more time has passed than we think.

Here's a link to the current crop of sat coms:

http://www.iridium.com/

I thought this episode was pretty good however I think the majority of the episode was filler, stringing us along until the gang actually found the parachutist. It was still interesting, but the reveal at the end was so intriguing I just wanted to find out more about this mysterious person in this episode.

It can't be both ways. It's either nonsense on the writers' part (which it often is) or it's nonsense on Desmond's part for - for some reason - believing that Penny would cease to exist if he saved Charlie.I'm not following what you mean by it can't be both ways. Both what ways? The show was called Catch 22 for a reason. Desmond was damned if he saved Charlie (thus losing Penny) or damned if he didn't save Charlie so he could be with Penny. That's not both ways of anything. Unless you meant something else. I still say that if he believed that he could change the outcome when he traveled back it makes sense that he believed he might be able to change the outcome of Penny being in that helicopter ... if he didn't save Charlie. But what if he was supposed to save Charlie so that he was supposed to get that woman and not someone else? He didn't, far as we were shown, see who was in the parachute uniform... he only thought it was going to be Penny.

Anyway, my point is that he believed he could change or would change who would be in the parachute because of his having had the oppty' to change things when he went back in time. From his experience it makes perfect sense.

Yeh it probably would have been better if they'd have discovered the parachutist, 3/4 of the way through the ep instead of right at the end, then we could have learned a bit more about her, because i think next episodes A plot is going to be about Juliet and Sawyer and Sayid debating and everything, and Sun scared about her pregnancy i think the whole deal with the parachutist might be reduced to the B plot.

There is an upside and a downside to this though, the downside is that obviously the parachutist won't get as much screen time as she could have being in the B plot and all, but the upside is that there won't be any filler next episode. An A plot addressing the mole situation, and a B plot addressing the new character it should be a great episode.

I thought this was a good episode...

I enjoyed seeing how Desmonds jumbled premonitions start happening in real time and making sense...also they took another step forward in the whole "Kate realizing Jack is into Juliet" angle...plus I thought it was one of the funniest episodes ever...

Sawyer - What, you want me to make you a mix tape?

Sawyer - How about a little afternoon delight?

Sawyer - You guys talking about whos your favorite other?

Sawyer - If we don't play ping-pong every 108 minutes, the island will explode.

Hurley - Everbody loves camping!

Desmond - I'm gettin' pissed on this fine wine

plus the Jin telling ghost stories in Korean and Hurley getting scared just killed me...

I'd say on the whole it was a really good ep....

Anyone know if it was the word "Catch" in a different language?


I believe the book title "ardil-22" was portugese, as in the two men whom we saw at the end of season 2.

I've been lurking around other people's comments and thoughts, and a lot of people have come to the same conclusion (or hypothesis) that the parachuter (parachutist?) could possibly be working with those two men.

Here's a question, why were the two men (and now, possibly the parachute girl) portugese, and in some sort of siberian, artic tundra?

Don't know if either of these points are relevant, just wanted to see if someone else had any thoughts on the matter.:drowsy:

I thought this episode was pretty good however I think the majority of the episode was filler, stringing us along until the gang actually found the parachutist. It was still interesting, but the reveal at the end was so intriguing I just wanted to find out more about this mysterious person in this episode.

I didnt htink it was a filler cuz it ended up being so important. Even if it was, who cares, the ending was good, and i thought it was very entertaining and it captivated me :)

I liked a lot of the episode especially Jin and Hurley they were really funny.

The flashback was a bit.. meh. And the Kate/Jack/Sawyer/Juliet thing was really boring.

I enjoyed the whistling on the beach (reminds me of the Breakfast Club--I know weird). Nonetheless, Hurley's understanding of Japanese is getting palatable.


KOREAN.

Aye, Ardil-22 means Catch-22. It's in Portuguese and it's a title of some book, I don't remember now, which one.
As for those two men who call Pen: don't really know now if Naomi is a friend of them. They called Penny and Penny... you know... Can I write it here or it would be a spoiler? Anyway, Penny-Naomi relation could tell us Naomi doesn't know those guys and they don't know her.

Jane - I agree with you. Des is a man of faith, he could really believe he can change the outcome. He believed he's saving the world.
I also believe that sometimes really "small" thing can change a chain of coming events. To that I believe in a destiny. Des told that no matter what he would do for save Charlie, he will die, cause this is his destiny. If he won't die in one way, he will in other.
Well... Maybe it's a contradiction. Des believes in a destiny but cannot accept Naomi instead of Pen. He wants to do everything to see her in that parachute uniform. Cannot believe in the destiny that it could not be her...
Think there's a one reason of that: his love for Pen.

ok I don't know if anyone caught this but (I didn't read all the replies)

At the beginning of the episode during des's flashback, when the guys put out the parachute to get the person all 3 people are there (jin, hugo AND charlie) - if charlie "died" at the beginning of the flashback - how could he possibly be there to catch the parachutest?

Thoughts??

I have to watch the episode now.
Good point if your facts are correct.

let me know if I'm right or just blowing smoke :)

I'm still waiting for my DVD and don't remember this ep so well. But if you're right, those fragments of Des' vision could be the two alternatives of the future events. It seems Desmond separates the two of them when he's talking to Charlie after saving him. It's only Charlie who says Des should let him die TO find the parachutist.
But yes, it's very close to think Charlie's death here in the vision (or especially his "death" in the real action) was needed to save the parachutist. Maybe the strenght of the visions is growing: they slowly make Des thinking the death of Charlie is necessary for something - to make him thinking he must let him die.
The Universe is smart and sometimes cruel.

Actually, Charlie was reluctant to go back once he found out that Des almost got him killed. But he went along anyways because he trusted Des that he was telling the truth about the parachutist.