So we do agree that the pilot probably works for Penny and that Penny gave her the picture of Desmond so she could identify him when she did see him?

So am I to believe that now there are 2 pictures of Des and Penny due to the parachutists' picture and Desmonds? This may be a huge reveal here that some sort of time loop is going on, or at least something is askew.

Don't forget the one on Penny's nightstand.

...or copies were made. The paper Desmond found in the book was on regular computer paper, folded hamburger style.

Don't forget the one on Penny's nightstand.

It appeared that the one in the copy of Catch-22 was a print out, as it was on 8-1/2" x 11" white paper. Maybe that's why it was in a copy of Catch-22. There's no way for two copies of that picture to exist, yet somehow it does.

yes, definitely

Before Desmond and Penny "officially" broke-up, when they were in the period of giving their stuff back to each other in order to move on, Desmond made a copy of the picture and gave it to Penny. Maybe Penny asked him to. Maybe he just did it. But there are at least two copies of the picture.

im gonna tell u my theory,,,here we go

there are two desmond timelines going on here, original and fbye.

In flashes before your eyes he went to the jewelry store looks at the ring and decides to buy it, though she resisted he eventually bought it. They then go and get the picture taken and desmond has no money so Penny buys one picture.

In the original timeline he did not buy the ring, therefore he had money and bought two pictures one for each of them.

So i believe Desmond did not actually go back in time and change things he just reexperiencd the same events he did before with prior knowledge of them. So there are two pictures because he never really bought the ring...

...hope that makes sense.

Is it so hard to copy pictures? I do it all the time. Could there be some relevance to there being more than one picture? Sure. But why is it so hard to believe that a copy was made at some point?

i think that its hard to believe that they made copies because there is SO much focus on the photo constantly, like how many times has that photo appeared? i think that this is a huge clue that something really strange is going on.

Not about the pic the girl had ---but I dont know why people keep saying that the Penny nightstand photo is a copy of Desmonds pic----it is already quite clear the picture was created from the Time Travel. Thats when we first saw her with the photo desmond had--right after he turned the failsafe in the Finale. There was about 20 threads on this and it was mentioned in the Podcast. Its not a copy.

But you dont need to hear that from a podcast. There is no reason to show them buy it from a polaroid stand for 5 bucks if there was suppose to be 2 of them. There is also no reason to show that same photo again--ever--. I mean its not like thats the only picture they must have taken together. Its was presented in the way it was in "Flashes" and the finale because it was a clue.

So we do agree that the pilot probably works for Penny and that Penny gave her the picture of Desmond so she could identify him when she did see him?

The two men in the S2 finale spoke Portugese, and it was made clear they worked for or with Penny.

The photo in this episode was inserted in a Portugese version of the novel Catch-22.

Keep it simple: how can there NOT be a connection???

Why not one Pic for Desmond and one for Penny.

Don't forget the one on Penny's nightstand.

The one in the book may be the one from her nightstand.

It's weirder that the woman in the pic changed between Season 1 and 2 (but we later learned it was a new actress to play Penny) than to have extra copies floating around. The one folded in the book is clearly a color copy (scan & print). Why couldn't Des & Penny have an extra copy of that photo anyway - one for each of them?

People, this is NOT an issue. ***Mod edited***

Des and Penny were an item. They took a cutesie picture. They each had a copy. Then they broke up. Penny starts searching for Des. She enlists God knows how many people to help. She takes the picture, makes 1,000 color copies and gives it to everyone and says "this is what he looks like."

***Mod edited***

Count me in the camp that believes that the couple made copies of the picture. Pretty easy to do, pretty common. Sometimes the simplest answer is the best...

People, this is NOT an issue. ***Mod edited***

Des and Penny were an item. They took a cutesie picture. They each had a copy. Then they broke up. Penny starts searching for Des. She enlists God knows how many people to help. She takes the picture, makes 1,000 color copies and gives it to everyone and says "this is what he looks like."

***Mod edited***

In FBYE, the photographer only took one picture so there was one copy. Right after that, they broke up pretty badly. It is possible that they saw each other after that, but I thought it was implied he went straight to the military after the end of the episode (I don't remember exactly). There should be only one copy of the photograph. I don't think they would constantly be showing it if there wasn't something more to it.

Count me in the camp that believes that the couple made copies of the picture. Pretty easy to do, pretty common. Sometimes the simplest answer is the best...


Im not photo savy, but can you really make a copy out of a polaroid? I thought that was impossible and the reason some people use them.

One word: Kinkos

how did she get another copy, if desmond walks away with it right after having it made!! and penny leaves.. did she go back to the photo taker and have copy made?

...or copies were made. The paper Desmond found in the book was on regular computer paper, folded hamburger style.


I agree. Except it looked like it was folded taco style to me.

how did she get another copy, if desmond walks away with it right after having it made!! and penny leaves.. did she go back to the photo taker and have copy made?
Exactly.

JFO, this is not as simple as you would like it to be (no disrespect, I'm a big believer in Occam's razor myself). But the fact is that in the version of events WE saw in FBYE, Desmond broke up with Penny immediately after the photo was taken and walked off with the only physical copy of the photograph. Sure, Penny could have gone back to the photographer and asked for another copy, but do you really think she would have done that mere seconds after they broke up? And she likely couldn't have done it later, either, because I doubt those street photographers hold on to their negatives that long.

The bigger question is whether there were two timelines and things proceeded differently in the first, or whether there is only one. My assertions above tend to punch a hole in my own theory that there is only one timeline, so I'm not sure where I stand now. We'll have to wait and see!

There being 2 pictures could also be a way of showing how hard Penny is trying to find Desmond that she would spend any amount of time and money to find that photographer and get a copy of the last picture they took together....the pic in this episode was def on a piece of regular paper so it was most likely just a copy of Penny's nightstand pic.

Exactly.

JFO, this is not as simple as you would like it to be (no disrespect, I'm a big believer in Occam's razor myself). But the fact is that in the version of events WE saw in FBYE, Desmond broke up with Penny immediately after the photo was taken and walked off with the only physical copy of the photograph. Sure, Penny could have gone back to the photographer and asked for another copy, but do you really think she would have done that mere seconds after they broke up? And she likely couldn't have done it later, either, because I doubt those street photographers hold on to their negatives that long.


Or they could have met again at a later time. When he was getting his things out of her apartment( or when she was getting her stuff from his, I cant remember who lived with who). My point is, they could have easily talked again after the day she slapped him and walked away. She could have asked him then for a copy, or he could have sent her a copy after he joined the military but before he was in jail.

People, this is NOT an issue. ***Mod edited***

Des and Penny were an item. They took a cutesie picture. They each had a copy. Then they broke up. Penny starts searching for Des. She enlists God knows how many people to help. She takes the picture, makes 1,000 color copies and gives it to everyone and says "this is what he looks like."

***Mod edited***

Sorry, I didn't read the rest of the thread, I had to respond to this.

YES - They were a couple

YES - They took a cutsy picture

here is the part where you are not paying attention -
The producers went OUT OF THEIR WAY to show that the picture was taken AT A POLARIOD stand, RIGHT BEFORE DES LEFT PENNY.

They WERE NOT A COUPLE FOR LONG AFTER THE PICTURE WAS TAKEN
IT WAS A POLAROID, AND BOTH COPIES ARE PICTURES NOT PRINTOUTS. IT IS OBVIOUSLY THE SAME PIECE OF MATTER.

Yes, the parachutist having A SCAN OF THE PICTURE THAT PENNY HAS is not a big deal, we already know that penny had it from the end shot of season two.

THE BIG DEAL IS THAT PEN (ON HER NIGHTSTAND) and DES (IN THE HATCH) HAVE TWO COPIES OF A PICTURE THAT THERE SHOULD ONLY BE ONE COPY OF.

I certainly have no issue with debate about it, but the smug tone of some of the posts is incredibly frustrating. Get your facts straight, and then post please

Or they could have met again at a later time. When he was getting his things out of her apartment( or when she was getting her stuff from his, I cant remember who lived with who). My point is, they could have easily talked again after the day she slapped him and walked away. She could have asked him then for a copy, or he could have sent her a copy after he joined the military but before he was in jail.

I was about to write that both possibilities -- Des and Penny communicating somehow after the break up and her getting a copy of the picture that way; and Des and Penny not communicating after the breakup and her not getting a copy of the picture -- are equally plausible when I remembered something:

Didn't Mr. Widmore meet Desmond after he was released from prison and give Desmond all of the unopened letters from Desmond to Penny that Desmond had written while in prison? If my frequently faulty memory is correct, then that shows the Desdmond was at least attempting to contact Penny and easily could have had a copy of the photo made for her either before or after checking into the graybar hotel. On the other hand, he could have had a gajillion copies made and if none of them ever reached her because of Papa W then how could she have one?

Wonder how long that simple question will dangle without an answer?

Me, I think it's a pretty big freakin' clue! :)

For a fresh perspective, let's look at it the way the writers would. They've been focusing on this photo thing for a long time. Way back to when it first appeared in Season 2, and they had an establishing shot of Jack looking at it. We then found out who Penny is, how important she is to Desmond, and then in the middle of FBYE, an episode about the possibilities of changing history, they reveal where the photo was taken, at the scene of Penny/Desmond's breakup, on a polaroid, one copy. THEN in an episode called Catch-22 (i.e. two contradictory truths existing together, a paradox of sorts), we establish clearly that Desmond is carrying this one beaten up photo into the jungle to find what his vision is showing him, and what does he find? ANOTHER COPY of the supposedly original picture.

Can we find a way to explain a copy away? Sure. They got back together the next day, made copies at Kinko's, then broke up again the next day.

But that's not what we've been shown.

Me, I think it's clear that not only is the photo a big reveal, it's the reason for the title of the episode.

Sorry, I didn't read the rest of the thread, I had to respond to this.

YES - They were a couple

YES - They took a cutsy picture

here is the part where you are not paying attention -
The producers went OUT OF THEIR WAY to show that the picture was taken AT A POLARIOD stand, RIGHT BEFORE DES LEFT PENNY.

They WERE NOT A COUPLE FOR LONG AFTER THE PICTURE WAS TAKEN
IT WAS A POLAROID, AND BOTH COPIES ARE PICTURES NOT PRINTOUTS. IT IS OBVIOUSLY THE SAME PIECE OF MATTER.

Yes, the parachutist having A SCAN OF THE PICTURE THAT PENNY HAS is not a big deal, we already know that penny had it from the end shot of season two.

THE BIG DEAL IS THAT PEN (ON HER NIGHTSTAND) and DES (IN THE HATCH) HAVE TWO COPIES OF A PICTURE THAT THERE SHOULD ONLY BE ONE COPY OF.

I certainly have no issue with debate about it, but the smug tone of some of the posts is incredibly frustrating. Get your facts straight, and then post please

This is what we've seen, but that doesn't mean something else hasn't happened. There are lots of ways she could have gotten a copy of it after Des left. Not the least of which is him making her one. It just seems like such a non-obvious piece of minutia to have this whole major dual time line loop plot hang on.

All I'm saying is, there are so many simple explanations as to how this could have happened. Let's not go looking for the most complex one in a desperate search for answers to the show.

ok, brutha? :)

Remember how people were making all these werd theories because of the pressence of two photos? I hope that this third picture proves Penny at some point simply made copies.

Good job Glix! I was about to write something similiar. Straight and to the point!

I think the fact that Penny's Portuegese guys were looking for the magnetic anomoly as early as when Desmond first almost didn't press the button in time (resulting in 815's crash) indicates that there is definately some kind of time loop or multiple time-lines going on. I think it's quite possible there was only one picture but it is existing in 2 different timelines. These timelines may exist somehow because Desmond changed events in his flashback leading Penny to search for him. I think this theory or something like it is much more fun than the idea of getting a copy made!

We've only seen the Des/Penny history from Desmond's interractive flashback point of view where he was somewhat aware that he's lived those events before and he made changes. But we don't know how the whole thing went down in reality without Desmonds flashback visions.

Gosh I'm getting confused now.

But I do believe this pilot girl has a copy of the picture not the original that Penny has.

Regardless of how many copies there are of the photo or how it was duplicated I think the reason the parachutist has one is not so she can identify Des but so that she can prove to Des that she was sent by Penny.

This is what we've seen, but that doesn't mean something else hasn't happened. There are lots of ways she could have gotten a copy of it after Des left. Not the least of which is him making her one. It just seems like such a non-obvious piece of minutia to have this whole major dual time line loop plot hang on.

All I'm saying is, there are so many simple explanations as to how this could have happened. Let's not go looking for the most complex one in a desperate search for answers to the show.

ok, brutha? :)

I don't know how I feel about time loop theories yet, but you have to realize that it not at all what the dual timeline thing hinges on.

DES CAN SEE THE FUTURE AND TRAVEL INTO THE PAST, OR WE ARE AT LEAST MEANT TO THINK HE CAN. The picture has nothing to do with it.

I am analyzing the picture, without emotion. What I find is that people who hate the idea of any kind of time looping/travel whatever, adamantly want to argue that Penny was able to easily make a copy of the pic.

I OFFICIALY SUBMIT: It is more convoluted to explain how Penny got a copy of the pic rather than chalk it up to all the time craziness that the island and Desmond both suffer from. Let me explain a little better:

Des gets a polaroid taken with Penny.
1. IT IS A POLAROID, THERE ARE NO NEGATIVES TO MAKE A COPY FROM.

2. DESMOND AND PENNY BROKE UP IMMEDIATELY AFTER THE PICTURE WAS TAKEN.

3. This is what I mean by convoluted: "At a later date, after Des and Pen broke up, she saw him, and even though they wern't together anymore, she asked if she could scan the picture. After she scanned it into her computer, she printed it out or had it printed out glossy at a store. After that, SHE CUT THE PICTURE OUT, SO THAT THE WHITE BORDERS AROUND THE IMAGE WERE THE EXACT SAME SIZE AS THE WHITE BORDER AROUND THE POLAROID PICTURE.

THAT, MY FRIENDS, IS CONVOLUTED.

Lastly, as a pre-response to the people who will say, "Well, you are looking into it way too much, the producers wanted her to have a copy of the picture, and they reused the prop." I submit that it would have been extremely easy for the producers to JUST HAVE THE PHOTOGRAPHER TAKE TWO PICTURES, OR HAVE A STRANGER TAKE A PICTURE OF THEM USING AN ACTUAL CAMERA, OR A DIGITAL CAMERA, BUT THEY MADE SURE TO SHOW US IT WAS A POLAROID.

I'm not real big into the two timelines theory, so I apologize if this question has been asked & answered before.

IF there are two timelines, how does the picture from one timeline get to the other timeline?

I ASSUME that timelines are independent of each other. What I do in one timeline should not affect what is happening in another timeline. Is that correct?


It was speculated that after Desmond's "time travel" experience he was nude because clothes can not travel through time. If that is true, how could a picture travel through time? (I'm not saying "time travel" has to be involved with the pictures, just asking.)

I don't think it actually was a Polaroid picture, it was just a regular old 3x5 picture as far as I remember. I could be wrong. :/

I don't think it actually was a Polaroid picture, it was just a regular old 3x5 picture as far as I remember. I could be wrong. :/

Definately a Polariod. They were walking by the river, I think and there was a dude with a bunch of different backgrounds he could pull down (One was the Island!!) and took the pic, it came out of the front of the camera, and he gave it to the lovely couple.

I don't think it actually was a Polaroid picture, it was just a regular old 3x5 picture as far as I remember. I could be wrong. :/

I honestly think we should take the fact that it was a Polaroid picture completely out of the equation. Television is a limited medium. In order to make the "hint" they dangled way back in Season 2, Episode 1 (the Des/Penny pic) payoff, it was important that they reveal the origins of this pic -- and they did, in FBYE.

Problem is, in order for us to see...

A) the context in which the photo was taken;
B) to make sure the dimmer bulbs in the audience understood that they had just taken THE picture; and
C) to serve the pacing and drama of the scene

...TPTB had to make the developed picture available for the audience to view instantaneously -- thus, a Polaroid instead of a traditional photo. And Polaroid, of course, means no negative (so no copies), difficult to duplicate -- which has made all us Fusies all crazy-like when additional pics keep cropping up.

Bottom line, if the Des/Penny photo had been a traditionally processed photo, we wouldn't be having these discussions -- it's be easier to assume duplicate processing at a later date. That said, if we can swallow the idea that the use of a Polaroid was not part of the writers' original plan for the scene, then we can swallow the idea of multiple copies and all get on with our lives... ;)

I honestly think we should take the fact that it was a Polaroid picture completely out of the equation. Television is a limited medium. In order to make the "hint" they dangled way back in Season 2, Episode 1 (the Des/Penny pic) payoff, it was important that they reveal the origins of this pic -- and they did, in FBYE.

Problem is, in order for us to see...

A) the context in which the photo was taken;
B) to make sure the dimmer bulbs in the audience understood that they had just taken THE picture; and
C) to serve the pacing and drama of the scene

...TPTB had to make the developed picture available for the audience to view instantaneously -- thus, a Polaroid instead of a traditional photo. And Polaroid, of course, means no negative (so no copies), difficult to duplicate -- which has made all us Fusies all crazy-like when additional pics keep cropping up.

Bottom line, if the Des/Penny photo had been a traditionally processed photo, we wouldn't be having these discussions -- it's be easier to assume duplicate processing at a later date. That said, if we can swallow the idea that the use of a Polaroid was not part of the writers' original plan for the scene, then we can swallow the idea of multiple copies and all get on with our lives... ;)

But the fact remains that it was not a traditionally processed photo, for whatever reason...it's a Polaroid. Despite what people may want to believe (or not believe), there's a reason these two photos exist, and there's a reason there's such an uproar about them. How long has this discussion been going on? And as far as I know, the writers and producers haven't come forward to say that they "had to make the developed picture available for the audience to view instantaneously". Whenever there has been prop error or some other detail that didn't make sense, they've addressed it. Show me where they say that there's no significance to it being a Polaroid...then I'll believe it.

this photo must be the game changer (im serious here) the producers said that in FBYE they set up a pre-game changer (something they said was like a grenade to the later mind-blowing explosion that would change people's perception about the island.) i believe the picture existing in both times (as in FBYE) and then existing in a third (the island) is really really significant. and to those who think that this is something too big for most of the audience who wouldn't even think of the picture, I say just wait-- im sure it will be spelled out for you very very soon.

Okay, I searched through all the entries in this thread, and so if I am replicating something I missed, my apologies, but I couldn't find this, so I'm posting what I got:

Here is a screencap (http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage.php?pid=85686&fullsize=1) from "Flashes Before Your Eyes" of the photographer and the camera he used to take Desmond and Penny's picture.

Here is a screencap (http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage.php?pid=85690&fullsize=1) of the photographer removing the photo from his camera.

And here is a screencap (http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage.php?pid=85698&fullsize=1) of Desmond and Penny looking at their photo.

So, please, any photographers who might be out there - I'm on my knees begging - WHAT kind of camera is that? Is it a Polaroid? It seems to be, but I'm an idiot when it comes to cameras... This seems to be a very important point. If it wasn't a Polaroid, and somehow a negative of the image was saved in the camera, then Penny could have made copies of it later. If it WAS a Polaroid though, well, that makes things a bit more complicated...

It's funny how much discussion this one picture/two picture (red picture/blue picture) creates. I actually think the two sides are arguing about slightly different things.

Side 1: Two pictures/one timeline - They are arguing that it's fairly simple to create a duplicate of a picture, even a Polaroid™ picture. And that's true. Kinkos, scanning, etc. - lots of ways for two copies of one image to exist in the world. No big whoop. I don't think anyone on the other side of the argument would say that it's impossible to do that. But Side 2 is arguing something slightly differently

Side 2: One picture/two timelines - I think what this side is arguing is that TPTB seemed to go so far out of their way to make the point that only one copy of the picture was ever created (based on what we've seen so far, but that could change in the future) that there must be significance in this, rather than just randomness. If there is significance, then what could that significance be?

Either side could be right - we won't know for awhile. Someone asked "If there are two different copies of the single picture from two different timelines, how could they exist together?" - THAT is the interesting question...and I think the one that's the game changer.

Just one thing: Penny and Desmond did meet again after splitting up and taking the picture: at the stadium when Des met Jack.

I think PAW (producers and writers) stated that this was a non-issue.

There are two actresses in two photos in the same pose because
the first actress could not make a full commentment to the show. That
is an honest continuity error.

For more check out "Desmond's photograph/Theories" at Lostpedia: http://lostpedia.com/wiki/Desmond%27s_photograph/Theories

I think PAW (producers and writers) stated that this was a non-issue.

There are two actresses in two photos in the same pose because
the first actress could not make a full commentment to the show. That
is an honest continuity error.

For more check out "Desmond's photograph/Theories" at Lostpedia: http://lostpedia.com/wiki/Desmond%27s_photograph/Theories


you didn't read the thread, did you... :drowsy:

Does anyone remember if Desmond gives Penny the picture in FBYE? Or does he take it with him when they break up?

Okay, I searched through all the entries in this thread, and so if I am replicating something I missed, my apologies, but I couldn't find this, so I'm posting what I got:

Here is a screencap (http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage.php?pid=85686&fullsize=1) from "Flashes Before Your Eyes" of the photographer and the camera he used to take Desmond and Penny's picture.

Here is a screencap (http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage.php?pid=85690&fullsize=1) of the photographer removing the photo from his camera.

And here is a screencap (http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage.php?pid=85698&fullsize=1) of Desmond and Penny looking at their photo.

So, please, any photographers who might be out there - I'm on my knees begging - WHAT kind of camera is that? Is it a Polaroid? It seems to be, but I'm an idiot when it comes to cameras... This seems to be a very important point. If it wasn't a Polaroid, and somehow a negative of the image was saved in the camera, then Penny could have made copies of it later. If it WAS a Polaroid though, well, that makes things a bit more complicated...


It is in fact a Polaroid 600 SE
http://www.polanoid.net/shared/filler.gif
Anyone lucky enough (and some would say strong enough) to hold and shoot with this amazing metal & glass marvel will instantly fall in love!
Originally manufactured in 1978 to the early 90's the 600/600 SE is the Numero Uno professional Polaroid camera.
It's excellent features combined with it's razor sharp coated/color-correct ed Mamiya lenses ensures stunning mind blowing polaroids! The 600 version differs from the SE in that it has a fixed 127mm lens, the 600 SE can take 3 different bayonet mount lenses.


Just found a wiki on the camera http://www.camerapedia.org/wiki/Polaroid_600/600_SE

I always thought that Des had the only copy of that picture. Then when Des breaks up with Penny on the pier he has the photo in his hand when she is walking away, that only reiterates that he kept the photo. It's odd that we see Penny have one on her nightstand too during last year's finale. What did she do, go back to the camerman that took the picture and ask for the negative or something!! I want to believe that it's Penny that sent someone to the island to find desmond. You can never be too sure though can you?

That kind of question will always give you a headache. Guaranteed.

farmboysf:

"If there are two different copies of the single picture from two different timelines, how could they exist together?" - THAT is the interesting question...and I think the one that's the game changer.

That was my question.

I am still really interested in hearing the answers to this question.

I always thought that Des had the only copy of that picture. Then when Des breaks up with Penny on the pier he has the photo in his hand when she is walking away, that only reiterates that he kept the photo. It's odd that we see Penny have one on her nightstand too during last year's finale. What did she do, go back to the camerman that took the picture and ask for the negative or something!! I want to believe that it's Penny that sent someone to the island to find desmond. You can never be too sure though can you?

See, that's just the thing - the camera that took that photo was a Polaroid, which means that it only makes one copy - which itself is its own negative, more or less... So even if Penny had returned to the photographer to ask for a negative to make more copies of the photograph, it would have been impossible for him to have produced it, since his camera doesn't make negatives, and the photo was in Desmond's possession.

Of course it's Penny who sent the Parachutist lady to the Island. There are very strong connections between her and Penny that go through the Listening Station. This has all been discussed at very great depth in other threads, so I won't go into it here.

It appeared that the one in the copy of Catch-22 was a print out, as it was on 8-1/2" x 11" white paper. Maybe that's why it was in a copy of Catch-22. There's no way for two copies of that picture to exist, yet somehow it does.

Two copies could exist. If someone on the island copied the picture and brought it to Penny, thus triggering her search for Desmond. Since she knows Des had the only copy, this would be proof that the bearer of the copy had indeed seen Des.

Why would someone bring it to her? Maybe the Widmore connection... her father is involved in the goings-ons and the bearer of the copied photo wanted Penny to know.

It is in fact a Polaroid 600 SE

AHA! Hey folks, I think I discovered an answer to our Polaroid dilemma!

Up to now we've been assuming that a Polaroid camera makes only one photo per shot - producing no negative that could later be used to make prints from...right? At least I know I have been under that assumption. However, I got to digging around about how exactly Polaroid film works, and I discovered the following (this is taken from a web page (http://polaroids.theskeltons.org/film2.htm) created by a Polaroid fan). The result was that he more or less demonstrates how one could make another copy from the disposable negative:


Normally, after you peel apart the film, you're supposed to throw away the negative, which presents an environmental hazard since it contains caustic chemicals, and admire the print, or try to determine what went wrong using the troubleshooting guide in your Polaroid manual. But I thought it would be interesting to reverse the above procedure to figure out what really happens when you pull those two tabs out. Like, why do you have to pull out two tabs? How does that negative line up with the paper? Where does that complicated negative/positive/chemical combination all fit inside that film pack?

To answer these questions, I tried reconstructing a negative/positive film combination by glue-sticking the print back onto the flimsy tracing type paper that it's originally attached to. I also very carefully dabbed all those caustic chemicals off of the negative and the end where the excess accumulates after passing through the rollers. You may notice two things here. One, is that the negative is totally separate from the positive, and the chemicals are originally in a white pod strategically placed so that the rollers will squish them out between the negative and the print when the big tab is pulled out between the rollers.


This same site also goes into detail about how Polaroid film works (http://polaroids.theskeltons.org/film3.htm), which clearly shows the disposable negative sheet laying on top of the positive photo paper where the print is developed automatically within a minute after being removed from the camera.

This shows that it was entirely possible that Penny could have approached the street photographer later and paid him to make another copy of that photo. Being a licensed street merchant, he probably was careful not to get in trouble with the law by just throwing away the negatives he took of his clients in any old trash can, but perhaps kept them in a special disposable bag until he had enough of them to fill it, and then dispose of them in a non-polluting way. So he could very easily have still had the disposable negative with him for days or even a week after the photograph of Desmond and Penny had been taken.

Penny, at first devastated by Desmond dumping her like he did, could very conceivably have traced this street photographer down a day or two after the breakup (which took place almost immediately after the photo had been taken), and thus was able to obtain the negative and get more prints made of the photo. Given the dedication she seems to have for Desmond, this is entirely and completely within the realm of possibility.

Further, it doesn't require creating a second parallel universe just to explain the existence of two copies of the same photo...

As for me, if I just broke up with a guy I would not be wanting souvenirs. And if I was collecting my stuff/returning his, I wouldn't ask for a photo then either.

No, there are 2 original photos of a single Polaroid. There has been too much screen time on Desmond's tattered photo to believe in a Kinko solution.

I'm still confused. Desmond had the photo with him in the Swan. He turns the failsafe. White light. Then we cut to Penny, who has the photo on her bedside table. Then, in FBYE, we see that Desmond goes back in time -- but he DOESN'T GIVE PENNY THE PHOTO. He keeps it again. Then he plops down, naked, in the jungle -- and finds the tattered photo, presumably the original one from the Swan. So, where did Penny get the photo, if Desmond didn't decide to give it to her when he went back in time?

When we see Penny in the season 2 ender, is she in yet another timeline, where she took the photo and Desmond didn't? Or, in the original timeline (before Desmond turned the failsafe), did they take two photos at the same time, one taking each -- because they didn't break up at that exact moment, but later on? :confused:
100%
All rightie. I just went back and re-watched the scene in FBYE where Des and Penny take the picture. Right afterwards, Des is holding the photo while Penny pays the photographer for it. Then, it's a close-up of them as he breaks up with her. Then, a two-shot -- but we don't see either of them with the photo. Penny then walks away, no photo visible. Des reaches into his pocket, pulls out the ring and throws it into the river. No photo is visible.

So, either we can assume (bad thing to do on Lost) that Des slipped the photo in his pocket or... TPTB puposefully didn't show us who took the photo because they want to keep screwing with our heads...

:smile:

As for me, if I just broke up with a guy I would not be wanting souvenirs. And if I was collecting my stuff/returning his, I wouldn't ask for a photo then either.

Penny didn't break up with Desmond, it was the other way around. From what I can tell, Penny never gave up on him.
100%
When we see Penny in the season 2 ender, is she in yet another timeline, where she took the photo and Desmond didn't? Or, in the original timeline (before Desmond turned the failsafe), did they take two photos at the same time, one taking each -- because they didn't break up at that exact moment, but later on? :confused:

Uhm, if you read message #52, you'll see how there could be more than one copy of that Polaroid photo... You don't have to sunder the universe and create another dimension just to have two Polaroid photos from the same negative...

This is what we've seen, but that doesn't mean something else hasn't happened. There are lots of ways she could have gotten a copy of it after Des left. Not the least of which is him making her one. It just seems like such a non-obvious piece of minutia to have this whole major dual time line loop plot hang on.

All I'm saying is, there are so many simple explanations as to how this could have happened. Let's not go looking for the most complex one in a desperate search for answers to the show.

ok, brutha? :)

What a few of us are doing is trying to help a few of you guys enjoy the show more.

Your suppose to think that the Time Travel in "Flashes" caused a second copy of the photo(the original being preserved, just as Desmond was, in the implosion)

Your not suppose to guess or wonder about it. your suppose to know it. Its part of the show and it is a fact. We know from Flashes that it is a fact that a copy was made by a second iteration(timeline) of events.

In this new episode we see a photocopy of Penny's photo. So once again..they have introduced the photo into the script. If it was not nothing..or minutia we would never need to see it again.

Wasn't Penny wearing a white shirt in the photo o her night stand? She is wearing black in the photo taken in London. This could be the positive vs. negative prints, couldn't it?

I'm in the "this whole topic is being blown out of proportion" camp.

The main thing is, there are gaps in the Des/Penny relationship that we haven't seen yet, so we have no idea if the picture was copied or traded or whatever. We've seen a breakup, but you almost have to assume there was communication after this (they may have even got back together), otherwise why would Mr. Widmore be trying to buy off Des? Also, Penny at some point slipped a note in Des' Dickens book. Des has joined the military and been to jail, that's a lot of time that's been missed.

It seem obvious there's much we haven't seen yet between these two.

We know that Des and Penny each have a copy of the same picture.
We know that when it was taken there was only one copy bought.

Either: There is no significance to this (beyond showing they still love each other)
and: TPTB didn't notice or care that it seemed impossible.

OR: there's an explanation for it that we haven't seen yet.

OR: it was a hint that there's more than one time-stream involved.

Given that the events in the pub with the cricket bat showed how things can change, I plump for the latter - ie, TPTB clearly want us to think that Des can travel (mentally) in time, and his changed actions can change outcomes.

But it really doesn't matter, time will tell. Great show, isn't it?

Des: "I love this photo Penny.

Penny: "Me Too Des, I scanned it in and printed it out on some photo paper, looks great."

Des: "Hey all I've got is this crappy polaroid, can you print me out a better copy on that nice glossy paper?"

End of mystery.

Wasn't Penny wearing a white shirt in the photo o her night stand? She is wearing black in the photo taken in London. This could be the positive vs. negative prints, couldn't it?

She's dressed the same in both. You are confusing the old, pre Sonya Walger, photo. That photo no longer exists in the show as it was replaced after Sonya was cast.

Don't forget the one on Penny's nightstand.
I'm taking that as a deliberate clue that Penny was close by, not half a world away. Desmond's knocked out at Swan, Penny comes & takes the framed photo, keeps it by her bed at her nearby quarters. Then she takes it out & puts it into Ardil 22, and Desmond finds it as shown. One photo, no copies, simple.

Robert

I'm taking that as a deliberate clue that Penny was close by, not half a world away. Desmond's knocked out at Swan, Penny comes & takes the framed photo, keeps it by her bed at her nearby quarters. Then she takes it out & puts it into Ardil 22, and Desmond finds it as shown. One photo, no copies, simple.

Robert

Looking at it only from the perspective of the photo, that is the most simple explanation. However, to have Penny on the island is among the least simple explanations possible. You'd have to make many, many implausible leaps to arrive (or, more accurately, to have her arrive) there. I won't go through each of them for you since you're quite capable, Sudsy.

Des: "I love this photo Penny.

Penny: "Me Too Des, I scanned it in and printed it out on some photo paper, looks great."

Des: "Hey all I've got is this crappy polaroid, can you print me out a better copy on that nice glossy paper?"

End of mystery.

Yeah... after people break up the way they did, lovely conversations like this one ensue. (/end sarcasm)

Actually, I agree that it's possible there's a simple explanation (this conversation, with a bit more edge, could still have happened...) but I think the point of this thread is that TPTB have made such a big deal out of this, there has to be something to it. I'd laugh if there's a scene in the future that shows a copy being made... cos I think that would come as more of a shock to many people than multiple timelines, the way this has been set up!

Des: "I love this photo Penny.

Penny: "Me Too Des, I scanned it in and printed it out on some photo paper, looks great."

Des: "Hey all I've got is this crappy polaroid, can you print me out a better copy on that nice glossy paper?"

End of mystery.


For the love of God go check the Podcasts or try reading all the posts:confused: . A copy was made from the Time Travel--not a copy machine--or go on watching the show not knowing whats going on. But please stop posting the same wrong response over and over again..or is this just to annoy people?

We know that Des and Penny each have a copy of the same picture.
We know that when it was taken there was only one copy bought.

Either: There is no significance to this (beyond showing they still love each other)
and: TPTB didn't notice or care that it seemed impossible.

OR: there's an explanation for it that we haven't seen yet.

OR: it was a hint that there's more than one time-stream involved.

Given that the events in the pub with the cricket bat showed how things can change, I plump for the latter - ie, TPTB clearly want us to think that Des can travel (mentally) in time, and his changed actions can change outcomes.

But it really doesn't matter, time will tell. Great show, isn't it?

Great analysis, KD! However, as you suggest, it may be a bit too early to place too much emphasis on any of the possibilities. We need more information.

So, along those lines, I thought I'd throw in some quotes from Sherlock Holmes just for laughs. I find that reading Sherlock Holmes is an excellent way to keep my mind focused when trying to take apart Lost's myriad and interwoven mysteries. Even though Lost is a work of fiction, one may still find the thread to a correct resolution. So, enjoy these quotes, I think you'll find them very apropos to the analysis of Lost: ;)


It is a capital mistake to theorize before you have all the evidence. It biases the judgment.



When you have eliminated all which is impossible, then whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth.


I never guess. It is a shocking habit – destructive to the logical faculty.



It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts.



Singularity is almost invariably a clue. The more featureless and commonplace a crime is, the more difficult it is to bring it home.



The observer who has thoroughly understood one link in a series of incidents should be able to accurately state all the other ones, both before and after.


The little things are infinitely the most important.


There is nothing so unnatural as the commonplace.



Violence does, in truth, recoil upon the violent, and the schemer falls into the pit which he digs for another.



Nothing clears up a case so much as stating it to another person.



It is of the highest importance in the art of detection to be able to recognize, out of a number of facts, which are incidental and which vital. Otherwise your energy and attention must be dissipated instead of being concentrated.



We balance probabilities and choose the most likely. It is the scientific use of the imagination.



It is impossible as I state it, and therefore I must in some respect have stated it wrong.



Only one important thing has happened in the last three days, and that is that nothing has happened.



I fear that if the matter is beyond humanity it is certainly beyond me. Yet we must exhaust all natural explanations before we fall back upon such a theory as this.



We must look for consistency. Where there is a want of it we must suspect deception.


And last, but perhaps my favorite quote:

It is quite a three pipe problem, and I beg that you won’t speak to me for fifty minutes.

Brilliant. Reminds me of my favourite article at lostpedia:

http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Apophenia

Every time things get a little out of hand, I go there and remind myself it's just a TV show!

So am I to believe that now there are 2 pictures of Des and Penny due to the parachutists' picture and Desmonds? This may be a huge reveal here that some sort of time loop is going on, or at least something is askew.

The US podcast confirmed that there are two pics, Des and Pen have one each, and that (she who must remain anoymous) has a scanned copy presumably.

Until thatpodcast, i thought there was only one pic, i don't remember which 'cast exactly it was that confirmed that there are two pics.

For the love of God go check the Podcasts or try reading all the posts:confused: . A copy was made from the Time Travel--not a copy machine--or go on watching the show not knowing whats going on. But please stop posting the same wrong response over and over again..or is this just to annoy people?

Unless I misheard the podcast, didn't he say that two copies of the pictures exist and that each person has one? I don't remember him saying anything about it being caused by the time loop. Also, they confirmed The Parachutist has a printout copy of the picture. My guess is so that she could identify our boy Des.
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The US podcast confirmed that there are two pics, Des and Pen have one each, and that (she who must remain anoymous) has a scanned copy presumably.

Until thatpodcast, i thought there was only one pic, i don't remember which 'cast exactly it was that confirmed that there are two pics.

It was the most recent podcast on 4/20, and I too assumed that there was only one pic and that somehow there were two by paradox. However, TPTB have stated otherwise.

I think the photo relates to this much larger concept of time looping. Here's how.

1. At the end of Season 2 Penny is looking for Desmond. She is looking for a very specific event to occur and presumably looking in a specific area. Last time Penny saw Desmond (to our knowledge) was about 1 year before he crashes on the island.

2. For all Penny knows Desmond has disappeared, killed in the race or just flaking out and falling off the face of the earth. Penny has no reason to assume anything else has happened.

3. Penny loves Desmond. She wants to find him. What is her approach? How about hiring some Portuguese scientists to sit in some arctic tent waiting for giant magnetic anomaly to occur? That's exactly what I would do!

The point is that Penny was looking for something very specific. She knew the approximate location and event that was to occur. The only possible solutions to these problems are (1) that someone on the inside of Dharma shared some secret information about the island or (2) that Desmond has been back to see Penny more than just the one time we saw in FBYE.

For all we know Desmond has looped through time on a dozen different occasions. It could have been at any one of these points that Desmond gives her a copy of the photo and also tells her what's going to happen. Fate drives him to the island, pushing the button is his future, but Penny can save him and the others if she knows where to look once he activates the fail-safe.

bjsguess:
For all we know Desmond has looped through time on a dozen different occasions. It could have been at any one of these points that Desmond gives her a copy of the photo and also tells her what's going to happen. Fate drives him to the island, pushing the button is his future, but Penny can save him and the others if she knows where to look once he activates the fail-safe.

I don't really have an opinion either way about the photo, but I do have a couple of questions:

I'm assuming that Desmond was naked after the implosion because of the old "clothes can't travel through time" thing. If so, how would Desmond have taken the photo with him to make a copy of it? (I'm assuming that if clothes can't travel through time, then neither can a photo.)

IF he could take the photo with him, why would he?

IF he did take the photo with him, why would he have even made a copy for Penny?

Obviously something does not add up regarding the photo. I just don't know what it is.

how come no one thinks that there is more to the story than they saw in flashes, we saw the end of a flashback, I belive that in the next season we will see what happend after he walked away. could it be that at some point in the new timeline he told penny what was happening and while she thought he was crazy at first she belived him that would explain how she knew what to look for at the end of season 2 to locate him.

Rthensley, I think it's more like, in the first time through, Penny keeps the picture. Then in FBYE Desmond changes the timeline and keeps the pic. OR something like that ack my head hurts. But I don't take what they said in the podcast too seriously, all they said was that there were two copies of the picture and a scanned/photocopied one.

For the love of God go check the Podcasts or try reading all the posts:confused: . A copy was made from the Time Travel--not a copy machine--or go on watching the show not knowing whats going on. But please stop posting the same wrong response over and over again..or is this just to annoy people?

Huh? Not sure what you are talking about here. Please clarify, because I've heard all the official podcasts (can't say I've read all the posts on the Fuselage, but I've read a lot of them, and I don't know what you mean there, either).

Rthensley, I think it's more like, in the first time through, Penny keeps the picture. Then in FBYE Desmond changes the timeline and keeps the pic. OR something like that ack my head hurts. But I don't take what they said in the podcast too seriously, all they said was that there were two copies of the picture and a scanned/photocopied one.


It is just hard for me to work through these different timelines.

IF the first time through Penny kept the picture, then Desmond would not have had the picture in the hatch (which was before FBYE)....... right?

IF Desmond kept the picture during the next timeline, then Penny would not of had the picture to make a copy from to give to the parachute girl.....right?

BUT, Desmond had a picture in his book, Penny had a picture by her bed, and the parachute girl had a picture. ASSUMING pictures can NOT physically go from one timeline to another, we are obviously (TO ME) missing some very important information. Until we get that information, there is really no way to solve this mystery.

I totally agree we don't have the info. I guess I'm hoping that Penny having the picture and being on the lookout for EM Anomolies are somehow related.

I'm taking that as a deliberate clue that Penny was close by, not half a world away. Desmond's knocked out at Swan, Penny comes & takes the framed photo, keeps it by her bed at her nearby quarters. Then she takes it out & puts it into Ardil 22, and Desmond finds it as shown. One photo, no copies, simple.

I forgot something. Penny takes the photo out of the frame, then goes to Kinko's (or whatever they have in Equatorial Guinea), makes a copy, puts the original on the ground where Desmond wakes up naked, and then puts the copy into Ardil 22.

Looking at it only from the perspective of the photo, that is the most simple explanation. However, to have Penny on the island is among the least simple explanations possible. You'd have to make many, many implausible leaps to arrive (or, more accurately, to have her arrive) there.
Not implausible at all if the whole thing is fakery, and she was part of it. As I see it, everything else about Lost is highly implausible if it's "for real".

Consider this: If Lost purported to be a docu-drama about events that were not parts of a hoax, would you believe it? OTOH, if Lost purported to be a docu-drama about a hoax, would you believe it?

As to Sherlock Holmes: It is a capital mistake to theorize before you have all the evidence.
We won't have all the evidence until Lost ends. Then it's too late.

When you have eliminated all which is impossible, then whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth.
That's the one I've been going by. Of course it only works when everything's impossible except for one.

Robert

I forgot something. Penny takes the photo out of the frame, then goes to Kinko's (or whatever they have in Equatorial Guinea), makes a copy, puts the original on the ground where Desmond wakes up naked, and then puts the copy into Ardil 22.


Not implausible at all if the whole thing is fakery, and she was part of it. As I see it, everything else about Lost is highly implausible if it's "for real".

Consider this: If Lost purported to be a docu-drama about events that were not parts of a hoax, would you believe it? OTOH, if Lost purported to be a docu-drama about a hoax, would you believe it?

Robert

Fair enough. As long as they are conspiring in secret, I suppose anything is possible.

I think Damon was trying to be pretty definitive in the 4-20 podcast when he stated that there were two copies of the picture - Penny had one and Desmond had one, and that most likely Penny made a copy for our new island visitor. It sounded to me like he wanted to put this to rest.

But I guess just like "The Box" (it was a metaphor), whether or not Christian is really dead (yep), and any number of other things in this show, some people just can't let it go...

You can create copies of a photo easily. Case closed.

You can create copies of a photo easily. Case closed.

I have to throw my two cents in here. It isn't so much of a question whether they could have made copies, it's a question of whether they would have made copies.

This is my opinion based on what we have been shown:

Des and Penny broke up right after the photo was taken. One or the other presumably had the photo with them. Desmond then apparently went and joined the army. In his distraught state, he may have left as quickly as possible, without seeing Penny again. Even if he did see her before leaving, I doubt either one would have thought of copying the photo. Yet, somehow, another copy of the photo exists. Is this because of some as yet unaired scene where one of them copies it and gives it to the other? Or is it because of Desmond "travelling" through time and creating an alternate timeline?

As much as I hate the idea of time travel in the show, I have to lean towards the dual/alternate timeline camp on this one. It just makes more sense to me than a recently separated couple copying a picture so each could have one. Damon's statement that there are two copies is very misleading. It doesn't answer whether the two copies always existed. I have to say that until we get more information, this debate is far from over.

I don't think we have evidence that there are 2 photos or a 2 time lines. The copy that the helicopter lady has is on paper, it's not actually the same photo. The question is how did that copy get on the paper. It can be explained by there being 2 photos or 2 time lines, but right now, neither of those explanations are necessarily correct. We've only actually seen 1 photo. When we see the 'other' copy on the nightstand, that's not necessarily real, aren't there still people (like me) who think that all that stuff might have just been in Desmond's head, and not actually time travel? So, in my mind, we've only seen 1 copy of the actual photo. But I don't know how it got on the paper, I'll wait and see - there are lots of theories, but if I were you, I wouldn't get attached to any of them, be open-minded.

All of these competing theories are interesting. I don't have a link, but I specifically remember one of the producers saying in a podcast that there was one photo in the FBYE timeline, but "Who knows? Maybe there is another timeline where there are two copies of the photograph."

I think that's one of the reasons why Des is so intrigued by the picture. Think about it. His emotions on seeing the photo ought to be pure excitement. He played it more as excitement - plus confusion.

I think the original timeline had Des NOT buying a ring, which means he would (1) have money, and (2) know he was breaking it off. He would buy two copies of the photo so Penny could have something to remember him by.

In the FBYE timeline, he bought the ring, which means he (1) had no money, and (2) did not know he was breaking it off. Penny, who also didn't know he was breaking it off, only paid for one photo.

We've only actually seen 1 photo. When we see the 'other' copy on the nightstand, that's not necessarily real,

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure that the scene with the framed photo on Penny's nightstand was from the end of season two when the Portuguese guys called her to tell her about the magnetic anomaly. This scene was not a flashback or one of Desmond's visions, so she definitely has one "copy". We've seen Desmond's "copy", so that makes two. I don't count the one found with the parachutist, as it appears to be a printout of the "original" photo, and not an actual "copy". As much as I agree that we need to keep an open mind, we have seen two photos.

They were living together. Penny still had to move out, so we pretty much KNOW that they would have had to have seen each other after the scene in which the photo was taken. So Penny sees the photo lying there at some point and decides to get a copy made of it, as she is not giving up on him. By occam's razor, I think we should presume that the copy was made by a copy machine rather than a time machine!

By occam's razor, I think we should presume that the copy was made by a copy machine rather than a time machine!

Occam's Razor is not applicable to mystery stories. In fact, the very thing that makes a mystery story work is the fact that one or more element violates Occam's Razor.

Moreover, the rule in Occam's Razor is being misapplied by almost everyone quoting it on this forum. "Oprah's Razor" - as a friend of mine calls it - says you should rule out the simple explanations before you adopt more complicated explanations. It does not mean, as people suggest, that the simplest solution is always correct.

If you are trying to be fooled by a mystery show, then you should cling to Occam's Razor. That will ensure you get fooled. But, if you are trying to figure out the mystery, you are going to have to ignore the Razor in formulating theories.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure that the scene with the framed photo on Penny's nightstand was from the end of season two when the Portuguese guys called her to tell her about the magnetic anomaly. This scene was not a flashback or one of Desmond's visions, so she definitely has one "copy". We've seen Desmond's "copy", so that makes two.
How do you know those weren't the same one, viewed in two places sequentially? That's what I think. You're just assuming Penny was far away from Desmond and that the photo could not have traveled that far in the (unspecified) period of time between when Desmond turned the key and when Penny was shown at her bedside.

Robert

You're just assuming Penny was far away from Desmond and that the photo could not have traveled that far in the (unspecified) period of time between when Desmond turned the key and when Penny was shown at her bedside.

So you think that Penny is on the island, and that the photo was planted for him to find? Because that is the only way what you said would make sense.

From what we've been shown, Desmond turned the failsafe key, which happened during (or caused) the magnetic anomaly, which was detected by Penny's people, who called her to tell her this, which is when we saw the photo on her nightstand. If she is on the island, why would she have people looking for it? Are we expected to believe that Penny jumped up out of bed, grabbed the photo and ran out into the jungle to place it near Desmond?

I think it is funny that opinion there are two photos caused by time travel can be backed up by what has been shown, whereas the opinion that there is only one photo, or that the photo was copied before Desmond came to the island, depend upon things that we have not been shown.

I'm not saying you're wrong, just that the facts as we've been shown support two photos, while a one photo theory is based purely on speculation.

So you think that Penny is on the island, and that the photo was planted for him to find?
Yes, she's on or close to it.

From what we've been shown, Desmond turned the failsafe key, which happened during (or caused) the magnetic anomaly, which was detected by Penny's people, who called her to tell her this, which is when we saw the photo on her nightstand. If she is on the island, why would she have people looking for it?
That's your interpretation. I see some guys who noticed their equipment said, "Electromagnetic anomaly detected." They then phone her to tell her they thnk they've "found it". I think that means she rigged their equipment to register at that time, and now she has them fooled into thinking they've found something. The only magnetic "anomaly" I saw was the switching of the electromagnet at Swan to "high", and that would not have been detectable at a great distance.

I'm not saying you're wrong, just that the facts as we've been shown support two photos, while a one photo theory is based purely on speculation.
But that speculation is in turn based on what I think would be the type of story they've written, which idea in turn is based on things we have been shown. Especially, they wouldn't've named a character after David Hume and used that snowman riddle if they weren't making some kind of joke about what we can infer from our experiences.

Robert

In the version of events we saw, Desmond and Penny broke up immediately after the picture. But its possible that in the original timeline, They didnt break up immediately. They certainly could have been together long enough to make a duplicate.