Just as Sayid got to experience being tortured even though he was innocent of stealing Danielle's baby and had no information for her, so now Sawyer is experiencing being emotionally & sexually "used" by someone for their own twisted reasons. He is feeling the pain of being the victim! He's getting a small taste of what all of his victims (and the real Sawyer's victims) must have felt like once they found out they were conned.

I find that really interesting and helpful for the people whose theories revolve around redemption being the way to escape the island. By his feeling the pain of being "used" he is transforming into a better person - it creates empathy within him where there was none previously.

It's amazing to see Sawyer on the other end of this and how he tries to pretend it doesn't bother him (in front of Kate) but you know it really does. Will he make the connection between the two and find redemption after all?????

I think he's right on the verge, but if redemption means death.... I hope not! :eek2: He's come a long way as a character this season...

Great post. I think there is significance in the whole redemption theme and it's ironic how the tables have turned but i did feel bad for Sawyer in this episode :frown:

He obviously knew what was going on, and I think you're right that despite what he said, he really wasn't okay with it. He's a guy and knowing that Kate is turning to him only as a second choice is going to hurt him a lot.

Also, he's supposed to be in love with Kate and so I would love to see him act selflessly for once and not let Kate use him, both for his own good but also because he's supposed to be in love with her and should want her to be happy, not settling for her second pick, you know?

All said, even if Sawyer finds redemption this season, I would be really surprised if he was killed off.

Wow, getting sexually exploited by Kate Austen. What a tough redemption.....

I can't feel sorry for someone that knew he was getting used and did nothing to stop it. If it bothered him that much, he would have taken control of the situation and not let Kate use him like that, but he didn't, so it obviously didn't bother him that much.

I'm glad you posted about this because both times I watched this, I thought the same thing. He's getting a dose of what he's doled out in the past. It's more of the "It'll come back around" theme that Sawyer keeps experiencing on the Island.
I have also found it interesting that he's never seen the Monster (unless it took the form of the boar in Outlaws) but he is still having to learn social lessons nonetheless.
I do have to say that while it's needed for him to grow as a person, I take no joy in seeing him be hurt by Kate. I don't even think Kate realized what she was doing until he called her on it. Maybe she will have lessons of her own to learn before all is said and done...

I can't feel sorry for someone that knew he was getting used and did nothing to stop it. If it bothered him that much, he would have taken control of the situation and not let Kate use him like that, but he didn't, so it obviously didn't bother him that much.


I don't think it really hit home for him that he was being used until the ping pong match.

I can't feel sorry for someone that knew he was getting used and did nothing to stop it. If it bothered him that much, he would have taken control of the situation and not let Kate use him like that, but he didn't, so it obviously didn't bother him that much.

Of course he is not going to stop it. He was "enjoying" it too much. After all he is a typical man. You know where their brains are.

I don't think it really hit home for him that he was being used until the ping pong match.

He is a con-man. Kate's "odd" behavior should have been a red flag to him.

I can't feel sorry for someone that knew he was getting used and did nothing to stop it. If it bothered him that much, he would have taken control of the situation and not let Kate use him like that, but he didn't, so it obviously didn't bother him that much.
He didn't know about her getting upset with Jack until the next day.

He is a con-man. Kate's "odd" behavior should have been a red flag to him.
He may have suspected something but then let it go as being paranoid. As he thought more about it the next day he decided to feel out Jack, therefore finding out the truth. It wasn't obvious what her reasons were the night before and he was so desperate for Kate to reciprocate his feelings that he may have subconsciously ignored his "inner voice."

All in all though, he's a con man, not a mind reader.

I hope that Sawyer being hurt by Kate doesn't affect his character growth..and he will continue to be a nicer, gentler Sawyer..not an angry, bitter, cynical Sawyer. But then again, he DID give her a Phil Collins tape! If that's not a move motivated by anger, I don't know what is!!
(Sorry to all Phil Collins fans...if there are any!!)

Sawyer was hurt, but it wasn't the end of the world. And he's a big boy, he's broken many hearts himself as a con-man. He probably realises he was due for some pay back. I loved how he didn't get all angry and bitter with her. He still gave her the mix tape and talked to her calmly about what's going on in their relationship. I thought that was pretty mature of him actually, even though it was obvious that her actions had bothered him.

I felt really sad for Sawyer.....yes he has used people etc etc...but... his affection for Kate turned him from Sawyer into James (amongst other things)...now Kates use of him, turned him in an instant back into Sawyerism...."hey baby, no worries, use me, its more than ok with me"....

I thought it was pretty obvious that it wasn't really okay with him, but he'd accept it from her if that was all he'd get. Kate's face was pretty chastened and guilty at the end. She knew it had bothered him.

Hmm..
I have a feeling that all the "poor Sawyer got used, he must be hurt" posts must be written by women.

That's not how a man thinks. To a man, being "used" for sex is just fine, no matter what the reason, provided that the "user" is attractive.

Sawyer feels just fine, although it would have been somewhat better without the Kate-Jack-Juliet angle.

If he was just fine with it, why did he lose a point against Jack when he realised Kate had seen Jack and Juliet dining together and put two and two together. If he was fine with it, why did he bring it up to Kate at all, and make sure she faced up to the truth of her motivations. His demeanour at the end was a guy putting on a brave face and telling her he wasn't going to hold it against her but would prefer her being straight up about what she wanted (in my opinion). Kate's reaction shot helped sell the idea that she knew she'd hurt him and regretted it. YMMV, of course.

I felt so bad for Sawyer when he found out about Kate seeing Jack and Juliet eating dinner together. He knew that she was using him from that point. I am loving Sawyer, he's much more stable and happy go lucky than we are used to. I hope he stays around for a while. HoweverI think he will be getting a little crazy perhaps when he finds out that the real Sawyer may very well be within his reach.

I don't even think Kate realized what she was doing until he called her on it. Maybe she will have lessons of her own to learn before all is said and done...

I have to disagree with this point, Kate knew exactly what she was doing when she went into Sawyer's tarp tent.

I think Kate's lessons are to learn that she is deserving of a good guy like Jack and doesn't need to revert to old behaviours (i.e. Sawyer) to satisfy her emotional needs. I think she could easily open up to Jack and tell him how she feels and he'd be with her in a shot but she hasn't grown enough to be honest with herself, let alone Jack (at least on the issue of her feelings).

Sawyer's no delicate flower. Aye, I agree with the OP that this experience will definitely help him grow (feeling empathy for others experiences, etc). However all this, "Ahhh, poor Sawyer..." stuff seems silly. Sawyer IS a big boy, and a man, I don't think he will be shedding many tears into his Dharma beer over the situation.

I think Kate will come around, but she is one sketchy chick.

I think Kate's lessons are to learn that she is deserving of a good guy like Jack and doesn't need to revert to old behaviours (i.e. Sawyer) to satisfy her emotional needs.
I don't understand why some people think she deserves someone good like Jack and not a bad guy like Sawyer. It's not like she was better than him.

Because for the moment, I'll say that Sawyer is the one that deserves better than her. In this triangle she's the worse part. Kate shouldn't judge Sawyer that way, at least his character is growing. Kate's character is just annoying now and going nowhere.

Sawyer's been around the block. But I do think he'd like something better with Kate, not just sloppy seconds. He genuinely cares for her and is trying to be in a real relationship.

I hope that Sawyer being hurt by Kate doesn't affect his character growth..and he will continue to be a nicer, gentler Sawyer..not an angry, bitter, cynical Sawyer. But then again, he DID give her a Phil Collins tape! If that's not a move motivated by anger, I don't know what is!!
(Sorry to all Phil Collins fans...if there are any!!)

:biggrin: :biggrin:

I like you TheDharmaIsOutThere! This post and your post from the "Kate is acting like a *****" thread mirror my feeling about these 2 characters completely.

I honestly am not sure what to make of Sawyer's reaction to Kate's using him. I understand the macho bravado aspect but I think, in some ways, he really meant what he said - that he is perfectly OK with taking whatever he can get from Kate, even if it is just her body. I think he was hurt that the sex didn't mean what he thought it did but yet has left the door open for it to happen over and over again as long as Kate is honest about it. Is this because he doesn't think he deserves better? Are BOTH Kate and Sawyer settling for each other?

I honestly am not sure what to make of Sawyer's reaction to Kate's using him. I understand the macho bravado aspect but I think, in some ways, he really meant what he said - that he is perfectly OK with taking whatever he can get from Kate, even if it is just her body. I think he was hurt that the sex didn't mean what he thought it did but yet has left the door open for it to happen over and over again as long as Kate is honest about it. Is this because he doesn't think he deserves better? Are BOTH Kate and Sawyer settling for each other?
I think that neither Kate nor Sawyer have much self-esteem, but Sawyer is at least aware of the fact and acknowledges it. Good for him. Kate tends to just react without thinking things through.
So he accepts Kate coming to him despite her motivations. For the time being this level of relationship will probably continue. They both seem to enjoy it on at least a physical level even if it's not the "ultimate relationship" and there are a lot of issues surrounding it.

Sawyer is still a bully. There's definitely a symmetry here - as long as he's hateful to Hugo, he seems to be experiencing these karmic slapdowns. How people treat Hugo is kind of a litmus test for just about everyone on The Island.

Also, Sawyer is still at a very childlike state. He complied with the rules of the bet which he lost - but only because he lost, not because he understood the intrinsic wrongness of what he was doing. Some of his nicknames are cute, funny, or neutral (like "Freckles" for Kate), but others are really hurtful. However, his morality is still at the "Don't get caught" stage.

I'm not sure how much he genuinely loves Kate - I think that's a bit of wishful thinking. However, he is highly competitive with Jack, and right now Jack has Kate's attention - which Sawyer can't stand.