in the background in the scene where Desmond is putting labels on bottles of wine (Cabernet? In Scotland?), there are "spirit stills" used for making scotch (they're the big brass-looking things).

Given that the monastery was shipping wine to Widmore, what are the chances that it's Moriah that makes the MacCutcheon whisky that Widmore was so proud of, which he said was made in the highlands? I thought that the monk who was teaching Des seemed awfully focused on the cost of the wine, too, which may be a hint as well.

That sure crossed my mind. And then of course Penny is picking up the wine. The Widmores probably use other products from the monks. BTW- Is MacCutcheon whisky a REAL product?

That sure crossed my mind. And then of course Penny is picking up the wine. The Widmores probably use other products from the monks. BTW- Is MacCutcheon whisky a REAL product?

No, it's not real. The most expensive scotch in the world is a 60-year old MacCallan, so I think it's a take-off of that.

Gooooood question! I think you're on to something brotha.

Highly doubtful if tptb did their homework. Wine comes from grapes, whiskey comes from grain. More often than not a climate that would be beneficial to grapes would be detrimental to a grain, not to mention two entirely different fermentation processes would be used.

Gooooood question! I think you're on to something brotha.
Well, if we assume that Widmore is a puppet master of sorts, if he has close relations with the monks he may have been manipulating Des from Day 1, and thus he was the one who pushed Penny and Des together....

And don't forget that Locke's father also had a bottle of MacCutcheon scotch. I will bet you guys 1 internet dollar that Sun's father also has one. I really like the idea that all the bad Daddies are working together.

Wine is processed from grapes, grown in vineyards.

Scotch isn't. It's made from barley and malt and all those things that don't connect with vineyards.
If there was a connection, it flew right by many of us...

Highly doubtful if tptb did their homework. Wine comes from grapes, whiskey comes from grain.

Word.
Huge difference between vineyards and grain crops.

What did the Widmores want all that wine in the first place? I don't remember them giving any reason for it. Seems kinda odd...am I missing something here?

Wine is processed from grapes, grown in vineyards.

Scotch isn't. It's made from barley and malt and all those things that don't connect with vineyards.
If there was a connection, it flew right by many of us...

Word.
Huge difference between vineyards and grain crops.

Did you read my first post? I'm not sure what you're arguing about here.

There were definitely scotch "spirit stills" in the background of the bottling sequence. Here's an image (http://www.undiscoveredscotland.co.uk/usfeatures/maltwhisky/images/still07-bowmorex.jpg)of spirit stills from a web page on scotch. So there's no question they make scotch at that monastery.

The weird thing is actually the wine. I've spent a fair amount of time in Scotland, and drank a lot of whisky there, but never any Scottish wine. To my knowledge they just don't grow wine grapes in Scotland, except maybe out on a few of the islands (and not Cabernet grapes). So either (a) it was a production error; (b) the monks import either the grapes or the wine itself. Here's a quote from an article about where wine can be made in the UK:


"Climate change scenarios from the Meteorological Office have also been used to see how global warming will affect wine production. As temperatures rise, levels of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere will also increase, stimulating vine growth and causing grapes to grow bigger and ripen more quickly. It is possible that, as the century goes on, the UK will produce wines of an increasingly high quality, to rival those produced by Continental vineyards.
At present wine is produced as far north as south Wales, Cheshire, West Yorkshire, and Humberside, but if the predictions are accurate, by 2050 the northern limit for grapes to grow could be southern coastal Scotland. "

I lean towards production error -- failure to fact-check whether wine can be made in Scotland. But how to explain the stills? Why would the producers have gone out of their way to film spirit stills in the background, especially if this scene was shot in Hawaii?

Yeah, I'm heavily into wine. It's both a passion, hobby and semi-side business. I've never heard of Moriah Vineyards and what's more, I'm not aware of a single red wine producer located in the UK. Most Brits are happy enough to drink Claret (Bordeaux) and Port.

Most Monks that make wine, there are still some, are either in Spain or Italy.

The name of the Vineyard is Moriah - more about Mt. Moriah, as Des said regarding the story of Abraham and Isaac and god asking Abraham to sacrifice in the book of Genesis. - So biblically speaking, from the Lost pov, we've now had Genesis, Exodus and Numbers. (3 of the 5 books of the Laws of Moses - or the Torah, which was kept in the Arc of the Covenanent)

Moriah, a hebrew word, means ordained/considered by god - (wiki - I dont remember my sunday school that well!

My personal thought of the importance of Genesis
*Adam and Eve
*Cain & Abel
*Abraham (the father of Israel)
*Infertility
*A snake

Lord knows TPTB love Biblical Names.

Regarding MacCutcheon - Admiral McCutcheon was from a remake of 20,000 leagues (which Mr. Eko was in) So me thinks it was a shout out to him.

Do we know that the "monkery" was in the UK or just assume due to accents. After all Europe isn't that far by motor vehicle is it?

Europe is across a small bit of water... although now there's the Chunnel connecting England to France.

Do we know that the "monkery" was in the UK or just assume due to accents. After all Europe isn't that far by motor vehicle is it?

The best evidence the "Monkery" was in Scotland is this:

http://lost.cubit.net/viewEgg.php?id=274

Since it is Scotland, producing McCutcheon Scotch isn't a stretch. As for the wine, maybe Hanso developed a new, heartier grape while trying to change the numbers.

I've spent a fair amount of time in Scotland, and drank a lot of whisky there, but never any Scottish wine. To my knowledge they just don't grow wine grapes in Scotland, except maybe out on a few of the islands (and not Cabernet grapes).

Yes, you're absolutely right. There's no way you can grow Cabernet to production quantities in Scotland. However, it's almost certainly a production error. The creators have made huge amounts of ridiculous, if not downright offensive assumptions when it comes to dealing with the UK and Commonwealth countries when represented in Lost. This is just one more to add to their ignorance.

I assume the creators think that Scotland is "somewhere near France" and therefore must be a major wine producer :biggrin:

anyone reminded of the 'mines of moria' from lotr

There were definitely scotch "spirit stills" in the background of the bottling sequence. Here's an image (http://www.undiscoveredscotland.co.uk/usfeatures/maltwhisky/images/still07-bowmorex.jpg)of spirit stills from a web page on scotch. So there's no question they make scotch at that monastery.

No, there's no question that they make liquor there.

Scotch isn't made from wine, but port and sherry are, and both involve distillation. That's what I assume the stills are for.

No, there's no question that they make liquor there.

Scotch isn't made from wine, but port and sherry are, and both involve distillation. That's what I assume the stills are for.

They were making cabernet, not port or sherry, and the bottle label also indicated it was "grown and bottled" in Eddington, Scotland. If they did also make port and sherry (and by now I think we've ventured way beyond any background the writers would have written into the show!), I'm almost positive they don't use spirit stills like these to add the fortification to port or sherry.

So, to my mind, it's just one of two things: either the stills are shown to hint that the whisky is made there, or it's some very weird production error in addition to the obvious production error about wine being made in Scotland.

What I think is odd is why they wouldn't just make a more direct reference to MacCutcheon being made there -- would that really give anything away? Wouldn't it just explain who Widmore's supplier is for his fancy scotch?

Maybe they had planned to have it be the MacCutcheon distillery, and then realized they couldn't have Desmond sitting drowning his sorrows in a bottle of MacCutcheon since he later didn't appear to know what it was, in Widmore's office....

Do we know that the "monkery" was in the UK or just assume due to accents. After all Europe isn't that far by motor vehicle is it?

Europe is across a small bit of water... although now there's the Chunnel connecting England to France.

Uhm, Scotland is in/part of Europe. ;) But the mainland - mainly France, but also Belgium - is a couple of hours away by car and ship or train, that's true...

For wine making monks, it's not about the grapes... it's all in the feet! ;)

Uhm, Scotland is in/part of Europe. ;) But the mainland - mainly France, but also Belgium - is a couple of hours away by car and ship or train, that's true...

no it would be more like 6 or 7 hours by car then a ferry or channel tunnel.

there is no way that wine could be made that far north. the vineyard is definitely in scotland though. penny mentions she is going to carlisle, which is south of the scottish border...

Re: Does Moriah Vineyards also make MacCutcheon Scotch? It would make sense but this is Lost so the admiral may have gone to the highlands of French wine country:rolleyes:

Yes, you're absolutely right. There's no way you can grow Cabernet to production quantities in Scotland. However, it's almost certainly a production error. The creators have made huge amounts of ridiculous, if not downright offensive assumptions when it comes to dealing with the UK and Commonwealth countries when represented in Lost. This is just one more to add to their ignorance.

I assume the creators think that Scotland is "somewhere near France" and therefore must be a major wine producer :biggrin:
The worst being the use of "Honor" on a supposedly British recruitment poster. But yes, you can't grow red wine grapes in Scotland, at least not without an awful lot of help. The accents in this episode were 'interesting' to say the least, and had me wondering if they weren't actually in Ireland, but I'm putting that down to a difficulty in finding true Scots to use.

I was in Ireland last summer and at one point met a group of Scots visiting the country. They had bottles of this really cheap Scottish wine (really the stuff was more like Mad Dog). I just remember them really drunkenly saying "It's made by Monks!" and describing how popular it was back home. I can't remember what it was called though.

Oh, never mind, I did find it, its called Buckfast.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buckfast_Tonic_Wine

Very popular among the working class in Scotland but made in southwest England. Oh well, maybe the monks in Lost get the grapes shipped north.