I found it interesting how their relationship was handled in this ep. Sawyer basically called her out for using him, but he didn't hold it against her - didn't punish her emotionally. He can be such a cruel character, but then he can be the most understanding as well. He's not thinking of himself, but what she's going through. I just hope he doesn't end up being her doormat.

I also thought it incredibly sweet when he stopped to ask her if she was crying, rather than just jumping her and not caring whether she might be upset or not. And though I think she did go to him because she was hurt, it's clear from last week and all the previous episodes she cares for him, too.

So going to Sawyer for a little comfort because of Jack appears to be moving backward, but then the nice little "here's your mix tape" scene - a lot of communication there, instead of fighting and hurt feelings - that would appear to be moving forward.

So, what does everyone else (those of you that care about this part of the story :23:) think? Did they move forward, or back? Or is everything still status quo?

I think that it was more like one step forward two steps back. I didn't think that Kate was being particularly nice to Sawyer in the begining. Infact I think that she thinks that she can take him totally for granted. But, then he called her out on what was really going on. I think that shook her up a bit. Hopefully it will add a little bit more tension back into their relationship so that they end up as more then just chummy little "fun-buddies".

And I agree that they both seem to care for each other, but clearly they aren't in any sort of committed relationship (much to my personal dismay).

I don't really know, I totally agre with you, that's one step forward and two steps back, it has no sense! I do show us SOMETHING, and now there's a completely different situation. I don't like the way things are going on.

I'd say two steps forward, one step back, is a good way to describe the Skate in this episode because the net result is still one step forward. ;)

The A and B stories so often echo each other. We had the abbot firing a tearful, despondent Desmond, telling him sometimes you have to let go of what you really thought you wanted because it's not the right thing for you. When you do, you'll find a much better thing, the RIGHT thing for you.

All we needed was for Brother Campbell to pay a visit to the island and have a little chat with Kate. Once she "lets go" of her infatuation for Jack, she can actually SEE the guy she runs to for comfort, the one who's honest and puts things out there, the one who brings her a mixed tape and doesn't yell at her or freeze her out when she screws up with him. I think she's getting there, but it's a meandering path rather than a straight line. :biggrin:

I'd say two steps forward, one step back, is a good way to describe the Skate in this episode because the net result is still one step forward. ;)

The A and B stories so often echo each other. We had the abbot firing a tearful, despondent Desmond, telling him sometimes you have to let go of what you really thought you wanted because it's not the right thing for you. When you do, you'll find a much better thing, the RIGHT thing for you.

All we needed was for Brother Campbell to pay a visit to the island and have a little chat with Kate. Once she "lets go" of her infatuation for Jack, she can actually SEE the guy she runs to for comfort, the one who's honest and puts things out there, the one who brings her a mixed tape and doesn't yell at her or freeze her out when she screws up with him. I think she's getting there, but it's a meandering path rather than a straight line. :biggrin:


Great post Dez! I hadn't really thought about the situation like that before, but you make an excellent point!

Kate needs to step back and leave them both alone until she figures herself out. There are times when her and Sawyer make huge progress, and then the next minute they are at each other's throats. I'm wondering what the final straw will be that will settle it once and for all. Sawyer has always been bullheaded, and Kate has always been independent, so it's going to take some changes from both of them in order for them to even be decent with each other.

Maybe it'll take Sawyer's death to finally get Kate to appreciate what she had. A diamond in the rough. Like TRoss, said, for him to stop before going ahead with sex to ask her whether she'd been crying, that's the sign of a guy who truly cares about you. I guess I'm afraid he's going to be the one who gets killed off, and I need to start disengaging, b/c he's one of my favorite parts of the show. (And not just b/c he's gorgeous...I don't even usually like blondes...)

I'm glad I found this thread. I posted on a "Kate's a skank" thread that was unbelievably harsh.

As I posted in that thread, I saw this Kate/Sawyer interaction completely differently. Kate sees Jack with Juliet, it stirs up her lingering and complicated feelings--and she immediately goes off to reaffirm in the most direct way possible that SAWYER is the man she loves. Wonderful--although she could have done a better job of masking the feelings that washed across her face.

However, Sawyer sees all this. He accepts her affection readily and gratefully, but then he can't resist picking at his jealousy and confronting her. He should have kept quiet and let Kate continue to work out her developing feelings. He's WINNING. The only thing in his way now is his self-destructiveness.

So I'd vote for "two steps forward, one step back." Or more like a bump in the road. To keep the metaphor, those two will always have a rough ride.

The A and B stories so often echo each other. We had the abbot firing a tearful, despondent Desmond, telling him sometimes you have to let go of what you really thought you wanted because it's not the right thing for you. When you do, you'll find a much better thing, the RIGHT thing for you. I was thinking the same thing, Dez. Sometimes what you think you need, and what you REALLY need, are two different things. I guess it we'll have to wait for an 'enlightening' moment before Kate realizes just how good he is for her.


doesn't yell at her or freeze her out when she screws up with him.That's exactly what makes Sawyer my choice for Kate. Instead of choosing that path, Sawyer chose to communicate, and call her on her BS - that's how a relationship should work. If only Kate knew that. :rolleyes:


Kate needs to step back and leave them both alone until she figures herself out. There are times when her and Sawyer make huge progress, and then the next minute they are at each other's throats.That's a drama for you. ;) And I agree, she needs to not be around the guys for awhile. I never though of her as the type to 'need' a guy all the time, anyway.


I guess I'm afraid he's going to be the one who gets killed off, and I need to start disengaging, b/c he's one of my favorite parts of the show. (And not just b/c he's gorgeous...I don't even usually like blondes...)I hear you, Dolphinjen, that's my fear too. :(


As I posted in that thread, I saw this Kate/Sawyer interaction completely differently. Kate sees Jack with Juliet, it stirs up her lingering and complicated feelings--and she immediately goes off to reaffirm in the most direct way possible that SAWYER is the man she loves. Wonderful--although she could have done a better job of masking the feelings that washed across her face.I see what you're saying, and I wish I could agree. Though I think it is telling that she turned to the one person she knew loved her for who she was. Maybe she did go back to reaffirm, but I'm just not convinced yet.


However, Sawyer sees all this. He accepts her affection readily and gratefully, but then he can't resist picking at his jealousy and confronting her. He should have kept quiet and let Kate continue to work out her developing feelings. He's WINNING. The only thing in his way now is his self-destructiveness.I disagree. He needed to call her on that - that's Sawyer's style anyhow, and better than playing mind games. Honesty in a relationship is key, playing the emotional punishment game is a recipe for disaster.


So I'd vote for "two steps forward, one step back." Or more like a bump in the road. To keep the metaphor, those two will always have a rough ride.HA! I'd agree with that!

I'd say two steps forward, one step back, is a good way to describe the Skate in this episode because the net result is still one step forward. ;)


All we needed was for Brother Campbell to pay a visit to the island and have a little chat with Kate. Once she "lets go" of her infatuation for Jack, she can actually SEE the guy she runs to for comfort, the one who's honest and puts things out there, the one who brings her a mixed tape and doesn't yell at her or freeze her out when she screws up with him. I think she's getting there, but it's a meandering path rather than a straight line. :biggrin:

Exactly. Sawyer is trying to win her after being on the beach without her for that week. It took her leaving for him to realize what he messed up. Now is is slowing trying to re earn her trust by being there for her.

I agree TRoss. Two steps forward and one step back seems a perfect way to describe what happened. I believe there was forward progress, but also some angst/hurt feelings too.

Kate is clearly still confused about what or who she really wants, and her obsessive need for Jack's favour and approval is creating inner conflict. I still think her head is warring with her heart. She wants to go back to being Jack's right hand woman, and to enjoy his attention. But is being forced to realise that actions have consequences and what she did with Sawyer has changed her dynamic with Jack. She's feeling hurt and rejected. It's only natural.

Like Dez said, she's holding (desperately) onto what she thinks should be right for her, but is not realising yet that it's completely WRONG for her and doesn't help her self-esteem or sense of self worth in the slightest. The way that Sawyer handled her issues with Jack and her using him was more mature than I'd expected from him, and it hit home just how his priorities have changed. He wants a REAL, honest relationship with Kate (compared to the fake cons of the past), and he's willing to be her comfort as long as she's straight with him about it.

I do think it was good that Sawyer communicated with her about what was going on, talking in a calm, rational way and not letting her completely off the hook from examining what she did. I think Kate's definitely now aware that Sawyer is hurting a little but willing to put up with it because he cares for her deeply.

I agree that Sawyer has matured since season one (and even the beginning of season 3) but i don't think the "you just have to ask" comment was something meant to comfort Kate. I think it was a little barb. Like, "I don't care why you want to sleep with me. I'm happy to sleep with you for any reason." So, yeah he's matured, but he's still Sawyer.

Great thread. I, too, was in that "other thread" Lostmymarbles mentioned. Mean stuff.:frown:

The more I think about Kate and Jack, I become less convinced of her romantic love for him. He was the first person she connected with on the island. He trusted her, a complete stranger, to sew the gash in his side. Their bond is intense. She loves him. But is it romantic love? I don't think so.

I'm not denying their chemistry and the sexual tension between them, but I'm certain that her interactions with Jack are unhealthy. He wants her to jump through hoops. He gets ticked and puts the freeze on her. For Jack, it's all or nothing. Kate has to walk the straight and narrow with him or risk emotional punishment.

But Sawyer in this eppy ... he didn't attack her verbally about her motivations in jumping him. They communicated. Something Kate has tried desperately to do with Jack to no avail. Her scene with Jack was heartbreaking. She's like a kicked puppy, trying so hard to make amends and getting kicked again and again.

I'll admit it. In that situation, I probably would have done what she did. Run to Sawyer, who accepts her warts and all.

I can't wait to see them take more steps forward.

Perfect title for Kate and Sawyer interaction in this episode. Very true.

Great post! I totally agree :smile:
I'm certain that her interactions with Jack are unhealthy. He wants her to jump through hoops. He gets ticked and puts the freeze on her. For Jack, it's all or nothing. Kate has to walk the straight and narrow with him or risk emotional punishment.

But Sawyer in this eppy ... he didn't attack her verbally about her motivations in jumping him. They communicated. Something Kate has tried desperately to do with Jack to no avail. Her scene with Jack was heartbreaking. She's like a kicked puppy, trying so hard to make amends and getting kicked again and again.

I'll admit it. In that situation, I probably would have done what she did. Run to Sawyer, who accepts her warts and all.

I can't wait to see them take more steps forward.