Is it possible that Desmond does not see the future and is not in a time loop? What if he is actually being manipulated somehow through his visions?

How else would he have otherwise, through fate or by reasoning it out, thought of organizing Hurley, Charlie, and Jin on his own to go on an expedition to find a cable, find the helicopter, find and rescue the helicopter pilot, etc.

Remember, we found out that he was apparently manipulated to meet Penny by the Monk (who apparently is close to Mrs Hawking who just happened to be in Desmond's vision).

Thoughts?

The monk told Desmond he was intended to do great things for humanity right before he offered to let Desmond ride home with Penny.

Something's afoot ...

The monk and Mrs. Hawking are both extensions of the Island's influence in the world, guiding Desmond on a particular path.

I mean, think about it.

If someone wants you to do something you normally wouldn't do, they manipulate you by hook or by crook. This is a reoccuring theme on LOST.

Charlie's death is the common thread that forces Desmond to follow his visions and take them seriously. He would otherwise likely ignore most of the visions, if not all.

The thing is, if he didn't follow the visions, would Charlie really be in danger?

* Would Charlie have even noticed Claire was in the ocean? He was way off in the woods.
* It's debatable that the lightning would've killed him.
* Charlie's quest to get a seagull was a problem only because Desmond shooed them away.
* The arrow killing Charlie was an issue only because Desmond brought Charlie along for his quest.

Whoever or whatever is manipulating Desmond is just using Charlie's death as a carrot or as insurance for Desmond doing what they want.

It's perfect, because he does their bidding as a willing puppet without even knowing it.

Perhaps Desmond will be at a crossroad at some point because his visions tells him to do something outrageous or to kill one of the Losties? Hmm... :confused:

The monk told Desmond he was intended to do great things for humanity right before he offered to let Desmond ride home with Penny.

Something's afoot ...
I have a feeling we will see the Head Monk again.
(His name wasn't Brother Jacob, was it?)

And the picture of himself with Mrs. Hawking: monks don't have wives so it can't be his family.

The DeGroots thirty years after Dharma?

And the picture of himself with Mrs. Hawking: monks don't have wives so it can't be his family. Monks can have sisters.

Monks can have sisters.

no i don't think they can.

I have a feeling we will see the Head Monk again.
(His name wasn't Brother Jacob, was it?)

And the picture of himself with Mrs. Hawking: monks don't have wives so it can't be his family.

The DeGroots thirty years after Dharma?

Unfortunately his name was Brother Campbell, not Jacob. I don't think the writers would give us the answer to who Jacob is so easily. I'm afraid we'll have to suffer some more.

no i don't think they can.

Im going to take this is sarcasm, yeah?
Can't "have" in the biblical sense! But they definitely can have biological ones!

Im going to take this is sarcasm, yeah?
Can't "have" in the biblical sense! But they definitely can have biological ones!

A famous Groucho Marx quote resulted when a priest once told him:
"I just wanted to thank you, Mr. Marx. My mother is dying, and your humor means so much to her!"

To which Groucho replied,
"Really? I didn't know you guys were allowed to have mothers".

This isn't the only time that people have been manipulated on the island. Locke's dream caused him to take Boone into the jungle to find the drug plane - eventually leading to Boone's death.
Charlie's dream of Aaron needing to be saved resulted in him kidnapping Aaron.
Echo's dream led him to protect the hatch.
And Sharon's dream(which she said was not a dream) of Walt led to her death.

Dreams and visions aren't that much different. Maybe whoever is doing the manipulation has an easier time with Desmond because he has some sort of psychic ability (or maybe it's because he's stopped injecting himself with whatever was really in those shots). The way to influence everyone else may only be when they are asleep in their dreams.

I love the time loop theories but the fact that none of the little "camping" trip would have happened at all in the first place sounded more like manipulation to me too.

This isn't the only time that people have been manipulated on the island. Locke's dream caused him to take Boone into the jungle to find the drug plane - eventually leading to Boone's death.
Charlie's dream of Aaron needing to be saved resulted in him kidnapping Aaron.
Echo's dream led him to protect the hatch.
And Sharon's dream(which she said was not a dream) of Walt led to her death.

Dreams and visions aren't that much different. Maybe whoever is doing the manipulation has an easier time with Desmond because he has some sort of psychic ability (or maybe it's because he's stopped injecting himself with whatever was really in those shots). The way to influence everyone else may only be when they are asleep in their dreams.

I love the time loop theories but the fact that none of the little "camping" trip would have happened at all in the first place sounded more like manipulation to me too.

There are also a lot of losties who were manipulated by supernatural factors on the island when they were wide awake:

* Hurley meeting his imaginary friend.

* Kate by her horse

* Jack seeing his father

* Sayid and Shannon seeing Walt

...etc.

With all the major and minor manipulations in visions/dreams that have happened so far on the island, there has to be a strong possibility that Desmond is merely being manipulated in his own visions.

The ability to see the future should not imply you will do things that you wouldn't normally do, e.g. the camping expedition. The fact that the camping trip happened just because of the vision and not by a normal course of events should be solid proof that Desmond cannot see the future and is not in a time loop.

He is simply being manipulated. :)

There are three years of Desmond's hatch existence that could come into play, though given that he "didn't get out much", I don't know how he could be directly influenced by outside forces. I'm not sure how far the writers are going to go into supernatural territory. I think they've already crossed that line where everything can be rationally explained as they once promised.

There are three years of Desmond's hatch existence that could come into play, though given that he "didn't get out much", I don't know how he could be directly influenced by outside forces. I'm not sure how far the writers are going to go into supernatural territory. I think they've already crossed that line where everything can be rationally explained as they once promised.

So are you saying you agree that the most rational/scientific explanation for Desmond's visions are that his thoughts are somehow being manipulated? I mean, given that they have shown brainwashing, why not?

It is not rational/scientific to think he is time travelling, in a time loop, or can see the future. That is "supernatural territory".

Well, this could also back up the thought that the flashbacks are just implanted memories. Maybe all this time loop stuff could have been implanted along with his flashbacks?

That makes sense to me, but I don't really buy into the implanted memories theory . . .

mean, think about it.

If someone wants you to do something you normally wouldn't do, they manipulate you by hook or by crook. This is a reoccuring theme on LOST.

Charlie's death is the common thread that forces Desmond to follow his visions and take them seriously. He would otherwise likely ignore most of the visions, if not all.

The thing is, if he didn't follow the visions, would Charlie really be in danger?

* Would Charlie have even noticed Claire was in the ocean? He was way off in the woods.
* It's debatable that the lightning would've killed him.
* Charlie's quest to get a seagull was a problem only because Desmond shooed them away.
* The arrow killing Charlie was an issue only because Desmond brought Charlie along for his quest.

Whoever or whatever is manipulating Desmond is just using Charlie's death as a carrot or as insurance for Desmond doing what they want.

It's perfect, because he does their bidding as a willing puppet without even knowing it.
Agree. Someone or Something is manipulating Desmond. Is it the same person or creature who's manipulating Locke and the Other Losties... Desmond was tempted to kill Charlie, and the prize was penny, a guess....

I do not think it is The Others, it is something else