I didn't PVR this episode, but what was the name of that book that was in the found backpack? Anyone know author and subject as well?

Dang PVR didn't work 2nite.

I didn't recognize the language, but am guessing it was "Catch-22".

My guess is the language is Portuguese. Can anyone confirm. I'm betting that Naomi is connected to the two guys from last season who were monitoring for "unusal activity".

Its not portuguese because i tried converting "Catch" to portuguesse on a language converting site and it came up as something completely different.
100%
to be exact, no results came up for the following languages:

English, Dutch, French, German, Greek, Italian, Japanese, Korean, Portuguese, Russian or Spanish.

No, it is portuguese. It means 'bait', which could translate to 'catch'.

I didn't recognize the language, but am guessing it was "Catch-22".

My guess is the language is Portuguese. Can anyone confirm. I'm betting that Naomi is connected to the two guys from last season who were monitoring for "unusal activity".

Yes, "ardil" is a portuguese word..

Didn't we determine that the guys in the ice cabin reporting to Penny were speaking Portuguese?

Didn't we determine that the guys in the ice cabin reporting to Penny were speaking Portuguese?

Yes, a Brazillian dialect.

Yes, ardil is Portuguese. It means trick, or ruse.
Penny's friends from the listening post . . . they're on the case!

Yes, I knew it! Sweet!! And that's why she had the picture. Pen gave it to her to find Des.

I'm also wondering about the other book, wrapped in a plastic bag. It's reminiscent of the Dickens novel Desmond carried everywhere - the last book he wanted to read before he died. He kept that in a plastic bag too.

Hmmm...another one for the book club....Catch-22. But...It's in Portuguese!! What's the Portuguese connection in Penny's big plan of rescuing Desmond?

Portuguese again, huh? Interesting...
Thanks for finding that out!

Its Portuguese

Ardil (as a noun) means trap. I´m brazilian....
And I still insist the guys were not speaking brazilian portuguese.
They had a clear portuguese (from Portugal) accent.

Maybe the parachutist they found is Portugese and works with Penny..? She looked like she could be Portugese..?

Ahhh,...I read Catch-22,...a long time ago, but it was in English...

My Brazilian friend says ardil is Brazilian Portuguese. He says the guys with Penny were not speaking this dialect but rather Portuguese as in from Portugal.

Maybe a real-world tie in with the Comandante Ferraz Brazilian Antarctic Station that measures geomagnetic activities?

Not that this link has anything to do with this episode...
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0469726/
That is the movie Ardil (1999)... a Brazilian movie, they speak Portuguese . The book was in Portuguese, so I'd assume the parachuter was part of the group searching for Desmond that we say in the finale of season 2

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catch-22#Major_themes

Looking at some of those themes are interesting. Inevitability of death?,Loss of Religous Faith?

According to that entry theres a connection to the Iliad as well which is interesting when you consider the name Penelope and the Iliad as well.

My Brazilian friend says ardil is Brazilian Portuguese. He says the guys with Penny were not speaking this dialect but rather Portuguese as in from Portugal.

That's not true! I'm Portuguese and I can assure you that they were speaking Brazilian Portuguese with a very bad accent :rolleyes:

But yes, ardil is a Portuguese word.

Agree with Mantorras, i'm portuguese as well and i can tell you that they were speaking a really bad portuguese from Brazil, it was hard to understand what they were saying and believe me we understand very well portuguese from Brazil cause we have a lot of brazillian tv shows here and the language is very close to our portuguese, except for the accent of course!

About the book, Ardil-22 is the name they gave to the book in Brazil. In Portugal most of the editions i found kept the original name "Catch-22", i did found 1 edition that were translated as "Artigo 22" wich is not a correct translation.

The name of the ep is "Catch-22"...clearly a hint as to the translation of the title of the book, so we could determine where this visitor might be coming from. Excellent insights and posts, everyone !

So IF they were speaking Brazilian Portuguese in LTDA, my best guess would be that the station was in the Andes, not Antarctica or the North Pole as has been suggested. Snow in the Andes would put them in Chile or Argentina though, where I think the language is Spanish, but it would be an easier leap than that there's a team of Brazilians in Antarctica...? I mean in that case, they may as well be in the Swiss Alps!

So IF that speculation is true (this is the problem with Lost :confused: :biggrin: ) then why would Penny have a station down in South America? Maybe the peninsula and altitude give a better chance of getting a bead on an electro-magnetic signal from either ocean...? Might make sense if she knew WHAT she was looking for, but not WHERE.

Thoughts?

I assumed it was Portuguese since Penny is working with some Portuguese guys (or possibly Brazilian... or maybe the actors are Brazilian and the characters are Portuguese?). I'm also curious about what the 2nd book is. Books are always a good clue for subtext.

BTW, It would be reasonable to assume (given the comment Penny has made about "money and determination" that she may have had MULTIPLE stations around the world looking for a signal, and the Portuguese-speaking team were the ones that caught it. That might mean that the island is closer to them than anyone else...!:eek2:

Just more speculation of course, but what else am I gonna do for the next 5 episodes! :biggrin:

I didn't PVR this episode, but what was the name of that book that was in the found backpack? Anyone know author and subject as well?

The author is Joseph Heller. The subject, well that is a long story, but in a nutshell, set in Italy WWII. Basically it is a no-win situation, the pilots have to fly missions that are dangerous. Basically Catch-22 is a situation where the pilot recognizes what he is doing is dangerous and that is a sign of a rational mind. The only way out of these missions is to be insane, but if you are insane you will want to fly the missions. So flying the missions means you are insane, but the moment you ask not to fly the mission you demonstrate that you are sane and have to fly the mission. Not the most eloquent reprise, but maybe you get the point.

What I find most interesting is that the main character discovers that Catch-22 does not really exist, but TPTB claim it does exist. The fact that it does not exist means it cannot be repealed or overturned, but it is still used. That I think is the real tie in here, it does not exist, but is used anyway and nothing can be done about it because it does not exist.

Sorry for the bombardment here, I'm just racking my brain about where this rescue is coming from...

IF the guys were speaking (or supposed to be speaking) Portuguese, they could have been in the Pyrenees,... Just brainstorming about general geographical locations and what may be most plausible, or give us a clue about the location of the island...

Hmmmm.

I assumed it was Portuguese since Penny is working with some Portuguese guys (or possibly Brazilian... or maybe the actors are Brazilian and the characters are Portuguese?).. Believe me those actors were not portuguese or Brazilian, they must be americans. As i said it was hard to understand them because their portuguese sucked, but we can see that it's Brazilian portuguese because of the gramatical structure of their phrases! They are defenetly supposed to be Brazilians!

Believe me those actors were not portuguese or Brazilian, they must be americans. As i said it was hard to understand them because their portuguese sucked, but we can see that it's Brazilian portuguese because of the gramatical structure of their phrases!

You spelled grammatical wrong.:biggrin: Thats like saying their sppeeling was terrible.

Dont mind me..I just love irony

That's not true! I'm Portuguese and I can assure you that they were speaking Brazilian Portuguese with a very bad accent :rolleyes:

But yes, ardil is a Portuguese word.

LOL! "Very bad accent" - well, maybe that's why my friend thought it wasn't the Brazilian Portuguese he grew up speaking in Brazil. :biggrin: He now lives here in the states and loves this show.

"Ardil 22" written out in Portuguese words is "Ardil Vinte e Dois". Naturally that means it's time for anagrams. Oh, goodie!

Ardil Vinte e Dois =

Trio invaded isle. - Therefore the other two Portuguse dudes are also on the island.

I'd alter vision. - Grammatically arkward, but makes some sense....I guess (Desmond's time travels gives me headaches!).

Novel idea is dirt. - That means, "Sorry, if you think Catch 22 has anything to do with the phenomena in Lost. Try again."

An evil Rose did it. - I never trusted her!

Soviet in a riddle. - I have no idea what that means. But it is a riddle, so that is okay.


My apologies for this anagrams interuption. You may now return to logical discussion. :)

You spelled grammatical wrong.:biggrin: Thats like saying their sppeeling was terrible.

Dont mind me..I just love irony
lol you got the point! :-P

It's been a while since I read Catch-22 by Joseph Heller so I looked up the details on Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catch_22) and Sparknotes (http://www.sparknotes.com/lit/catch22/).

Here's some quotes I thought were pertinent: :)


Much of Heller's prose in Catch-22 is circular and repetitive, exemplifying in its form the structure of a Catch-22. --wikipedia

Like Pikki?

Other forms of Catch-22 are invoked throughout the novel to justify various bureaucratic actions. --wikipedia

Another theme is the folly of patriotism and honour, which leads most of the airmen to accept Catch-22 and the abusive lies of bureaucrats, but which Yossarian never accepts as a legitimate answer to his complaints. --wikipedia

Made me think of Juliet being stuck on the island. Especially since the whole novel the main character, Yossarian, is trying to get out of the armed services. Plus I wouldn't put it past Ben to lie, even though he says he hasn't lied to Juliet.


Yossarian comes to realize that Catch-22 does not actually exist, but that because the powers that be claim it does, and the world believes it does, nevertheless, it has potent effects. Indeed, because it does not exist there is no way it can be repealed, undone, overthrown, or denounced. The combination of brute force with specious legalistic justification is one of the book's primary motifs. -wikipedia


Interesting... Sparknotes says something along the same lines about once he leaves the cycle stops. hm.... What could this all mean? :biggrin:

what's a pikki?

Pikki=Paulo and Nikki

I don't know if it's been posted elswhere, but to clarify from the book...

Catch-22 states that you can get out of the Army if you're crazy. However, if you want to get out of the Army, you're not crazy, so you have to stay.

It gets used in other ways, and takes on a more global and menacing connotation as the book goes on, but that's what Catch-22 is.

Thanks for all the info, folks! Much appreciated!!

Sorry for the bombardment here, I'm just racking my brain about where this rescue is coming from...

IF the guys were speaking (or supposed to be speaking) Portuguese, they could have been in the Pyrenees,... Just brainstorming about general geographical locations and what may be most plausible, or give us a clue about the location of the island...

Hmmmm.


You're over thinkin it, Not A Good Person!! Perhaps they are Portuguese...AND in the Arctic somewhere...North Pole...South Pole...Antartica? Just because they are Portuguese, doesn't mean they can't travel some place cold!!

BTW...I think you are a Fine Person!