Did whoever in the world is in charge of this all crash an empty plane and fake the crash somewhere else to deter anyone from looking for the real crash?

As Hurley said - What?

I figured when I saw the spoiler that she had startling information about the plane that there could be only a few possibilities and that this was one of them.

I think this crash was faked. I think they are very much alive.

Yea what a jaw dropper...I think they are just trying to con us into believing there's more to this. Couldn't this just be a con by the girl if she was part of the Others?

How can this be? Either this is some huge setup by someone who doesn't want anyone to know where this island is, or TPTB just confirmed a long held theory (that I thought they had previously debunked). I just don't understand, how can the world think that there were no survivors? Does this have to do with the time thingy?

This could mean a number of things. Another crash that is fake is one possibility. A con on the media to report found and no survivors could be another. Perhaps Naomi is lying (I doubt it) she's conning Hurley. Perhaps that's what she was told by Penny. Maybe she knew 815 was there and was told to say that to save Desmond, you know, she knows the 815 survivors can't leave for some reason, but she is still to get Des off the island

Of course, maybe the purgatory analogy is actually true. They did die and are in some nether land.

Don't forget that the wreckage was washed out in Season 1. They probably found the wreckage and assumed all were dead.

It just better not be the Hell/Purgatory theory. That one would be just too contrived. I have vested 3 seasons in this awesome show and to pull that would be like a Bobby Ewing 'it was all just a dream.' They have to have a better answer than that!

Or to bring up the "lost time" theories again, perhaps time in the outside world really is passing faster than time on the island. Hence, maybe they did find the crash with no survivors, but it actually would have been years after it had happened in island time.

And what about DNA to identify the remains? Surely they would confirm the bodies they found were that of those on the plane? I just can't see a plane crash with no survivors where they don't identify the bodies. I think she's one of the Others.

I've always had this theory that they are in purgatory. This like totally proves it. The Parachute Woman died and is now in purgatory with the rest of the losties.
Another possibility is that the Others are a much larger organization type thing than just the islanders. Perhaps they had a fake crash somewhere else?

Of course, I'm sure our lovely writer's will give a few answers before the finally and create more chaos and confusion.

personally, i think she was lying through her teeth.
For one reason or another, she wants the losties to lose all hope in ever being rescued.
The way Mikhail came running immediately following the flare going up, i think she has some relation to the others, and Mikhail was expecting her.
That phone she was carrying was an alternate way for the Others to communicate with the outside world now that the Flame hatch has been destroyed.
As to why she was carrying a picture of Des.... :34853_huh:

ETA: And i do believe that TPTB have repeatedly stated that they are not in purgatory. Now whether you believe them or not is a totally different story.

The others have the know how and resources to fake a plane crash, and now we know the real reason Ben wanted "detailed files" - so they could fake a crash.

Don't forget that the wreckage was washed out in Season 1. They probably found the wreckage and assumed all were dead.

Some of the wreckage they burned, with the bodies in it, at night so that it would make a big signal fire. That was the mid-section. The front was in the middle of the jungle with the pilot who got ripped out through the front window. The tail section was in the water.

I doubt the tail section could leave the vicinity, Desmond couldn't on the sail boat (snow globe). No confirmation that Michael and Walt made it. We really don't know that the submarine made it.

Whose made it off for sure. Richard Alpert. I think that's all we know.

Just stating this to show if wreckage was found back in the non-Island world it was not the real 815.

A con on the media seems the most likely choice to me. The Others must have planted some part of the plane, or a replica of it, meant for the world to find. As far as bodies being identified, if there were no survivors, couldn't everyone have died in an explosion, and there were no human remains left? Maybe the real world just found part of the plane (perhaps the tail was recovered) and the Others put it somewhere to be found.

The parachutist is lying, she is a plant and she's trying to force them all into giving up hope of being rescued.

Hey Guys,
WTF is the parachutist talking about? She states that flight 815 has been found, and there were no survivors??? What does this mean, I know that TPTB have stated that the island is not purgatory. However am I the only one left feeling a huge hint at it??? Don't get me wrong, I'm not a fan of this theory but what else can explain this?? Any thoughts??

I've always had this theory that they are in purgatory. This like totally proves it. The Parachute Woman died and is now in purgatory with the rest of the losties.
Another possibility is that the Others are a much larger organization type thing than just the islanders. Perhaps they had a fake crash somewhere else?

Of course, I'm sure our lovely writer's will give a few answers before the finally and create more chaos and confusion.

Totally proves it?

*offers flame coat*

Don't forget that the wreckage was washed out in Season 1. They probably found the wreckage and assumed all were dead.
That was my first thought. They put the bodies in the fuselage and burned it, it was washed out to sea... It would make sense if it were found in the ocean and the searchers assumed that some of the bodies were lost, considering how torn apart the plane was.

But it seems a little too obvious and logical. I can't imagine that it would be brought up in the Big Reveal Position of the episode if it were just a misunderstanding. :rolleyes:

There's so many possibilities, including that she's just lying. I'm still freaking out about it though, I hope they're not all dead or something.

I had a dream recently where the show ended and the answer was, "They're all in purgatory!" and TPTB were just laughing their butts off about how they'd fooled us for so long. :tongue1:

Hmmm, well that would actually be more of a nightmare, wouldn't it?!!! :shock:

Here's mine:

The Others set something up in the mainland for the mainlanders to find and somehow come to the conclusion that everyone from 815 was dead. Maybe the Others just had pieces from the wrekage? Idk, but I think the Others have something to do with it. I don't think it's anything like alternate-timeline/they really are dead or anything like that. The Others, or possibly someone else, wants them to stay on that island so they can continue doing whatever the heck it is that they want to do to them. And they don't want mainlanders searching for them and getting in their way.

Faking the crash somewhere else is the only thing I could think of that would explain what she said. She was still too sick and hurt to be able to be duplicitous.
Well, I was wrong...I thought that maybe she's from the future and that everyone that's on the island does eventually die and someone in her time has found the plane. :frown:

Personally, I think this is the best evidence yet that there are Others/Dharma operating all over the world. They helped in the theft of 'these' people to get at least some of 'these' people on the island. The Outside Others helped them onto the plane, the Plane Others deliberately crashed the plane, so that the Island Others would have them as their human guinee pigs.

If Ethan,Juliet and others have came to island,left and came back, how can they be in purgatory? She probaly works for the company and is lying about the crash, telling the truth at best. Eiether way I think we have a "controlled" crash on our hands. The way Ben reacted to the sight of the plane,quick and decisive, I think he knew about the plane in advance.

If it was a faked crash I'd assume that the FAA would have been on the take too. You know how they sift through the wreckage and try to find every little detail.

Yea what a jaw dropper...I think they are just trying to con us into believing there's more to this. Couldn't this just be a con by the girl if she was part of the Others?

TPTB have already said that she is NOT an other. She is definitely from off-island.

My guess is that it is indeed a con, but she has nothing to do with it. Besides, we know that the wreckage washed out to see when the tide rose quickly (which they noted was very odd at the time). It's not impossible that the wreckage would have washed out to sea and then been found later. The tail section was already in the sea, and that is where the flight voice recorder and flight data recorder would have been located. They would have found some bodies in it of those who didn't make it out, and they would have assumed that the rest of the passengers had died.

I seriously doubt they found the bodies of our Losties.
100%
If it was a faked crash I'd assume that the FAA would have been on the take too. You know how they sift through the wreckage and try to find every little detail.

They wouldn't need much of the wreckage to assume that everyone perished. We know it all washed out to sea in season one, and finding any of it would be enough to say there were no survivors.

The theory doesnt make sense for one reason. That would be Juliet's flashback episode. We clearly see that Juliet was shipped to the island by some company for research. Why would the company send researches to die especially with skills like Juliet's. Plus we also see that Ethan has been back and forth from the island.

edit - this is for the purgatory theory

If Ethan,Juliet and others have came to island,left and came back, how can they be in purgatory?

There's no proof of this at all, except for Richard Alpert. I think he's the only one we know of who's left the island. We only know of Ethan coming with Juliet - for all we know he came and died in the same trip.

Please correct me if I'm wrong!

well im saying ethan came back and forth from the island since he didnt need to drink the "orange juice" on the way to the trip while juliet did. Ethan must know what it was like to get there

Look i really really doubt that Ethan came to the island after recruting Juliet just to die and live on an island that is purgatory while Richard goes back and yet somehow still is able to talk to ben and come on and off the island as he pleases to talk to all teh dead people in purgatory. It doesnt make sense. We've seen Richard off island and on island communicating with both people on and off the island. It isnt purgatory except maybe in just a metaphorcial sense.

Well, there are just too many options. Either she's lying and working for the Others (which didn't occur to me until diabolo said it), or it's purgatory (previously debunked a million times by TPTB--if you choose not believe them, fine, but I do), or she's part of Penny's team and she's telling the truth about what she knows, which leads us to believe it's a media conspiracy. I believe it's the last option. I immediately felt like this was proving my long held belief in the Great Conspiracy theory.
I just about jumped out of my seat. What an amazing surprise. I love not being spoiled.

ok, so i scratched my head earlier in this thread as to why she was carrying a picture of Des and Penny......here's my complete thought.

She was lying. She works for Widmore, who has some major interest in the Island. She was sent to give Mikhail the phone and restore communications with the Island / Others. Penny somehow found out about this mission and has reason to believe that Des may be on the Island. Penny is a friend of our parachutist, or at least affiliated with her somehow, and gave her the photocopied picture so that she could keep an eye out for Desmond and possibly bring him back with her when she returns from the island. Or at the very least, send word back to Penny that Des is in fact alive.

ok. I think that's what i mean to say :smile:

There is just no way for anyone who is worried that they could be in purgatory. Desmond time traveling debunks this theory. Cause if he was dead he could never travel back in time. Not to mention that if the island is purgatory how could the scienctists and Penny know about the electromagnetic charge? Purgatory is a place between heaven and hell. A metaphysical place, not a real place you can see or touch. Hence there would be no way Penny could know about there presence which she clearly does.

It has to be a cover up. But by whom?

As to why she was carrying a picture of Des.... :34853_huh:
.

Actually, she was not carrying a picture of Des. The picture was in a backpack and the backpack was not on her. It could have been anyone's backpack - like Penny's.

In another thread they translated her Italian conversation with Patchy. She told him "I am not alone."

well just throwing it out there since it hasnt been said in this topic yet. Apparently what she said to patchy in italian was not thank you. anyone know what she said? might give us a better idea of what we can derive from everything

I doubt it is purgatory, but I enjoy that idea. I don't think you have to die though to go to the island, in ethan's case. The others have been alluded to as watchers. When the girl kept speaking different languages, at first I thought she was just highly-trained, which is probably the case, but when the last line came, and it reminded me of the purgatory theory, I thought of the idea of angels being able to communicate in any human language.

She's totally a plant.

She did say "I'm not alone", according to another thread on here. Why would she say that, in a language ONLY Mikhail can understand, if she wanted everyone to have that information.

I mean, c'mon, we know she speaks English. So why the italian? Because she was meant to deliver the message the Mikhail in a way that wouldn't compromise her position among the Losties as someone who might be able to help them.

She's totally a plant.

She did say "I'm not alone", according to another thread on here. Why would she say that, in a language ONLY Mikhail can understand, if she wanted everyone to have that information.

I mean, c'mon, we know she speaks English. So why the italian? Because she was meant to deliver the message the Mikhail in a way that wouldn't compromise her position among the Losties as someone who might be able to help them.

I like your theory better. I guess the picture could be from Mr. Widmore, so the others could identify him.

The way I see it, there are really two topics here, what really happened to 815, and that-person-who's-name-I'm-not-allowed-to-say's agenda and her credibility. I have strong opinions about both;)

First, the plane. Please let's not try to rationalize it by saying that that-person-who's-name-I'm-not-allowed-to-say is confusing it with another crash, or that the fuselage just washed away (must have been pretty far for nobody to notice the boat recovering it). I remember after FBYE when a lot of people were shocked by the idea that Des time traveled, and were willing to go with any theory that would explain it away, no matter how crazy the theory was. I think we need to take this at face value. IMO that's actually a good thing, cause once we do that we can start theorizing about how this might have happened, and to me that sounds like the really fun part:grin:

At this point it's hard for me to say what's up with that-person-who's-name-I'm-not-allowed-to-say. I guess I'd say that I believe she really is working for Penny, but like I said, it's hard to say. However, I do feel pretty strongly that she's not working with the Others. At least not in the traditional Ethan/Juliet sense. Maybe she's working for the other Others. Or maybe Jacob is in allegiance with Widmore, and by default their all working towards the same goal. We've already seen with Juliet how Ben can sneak a plant into the Losties camp, he doesn't need to crash a helicopter and almost kill one of his people to do it.

is it really all about angels and demons? black and white? I really dont know and don't think it is but dang it sure could be. But then again the pregnant women throw the whole darned thing into a blender dont they?

The parachute girl only spoke Italian. But --- When she spoke to Hurley she spoke English!!! IMO .... Hurley is having an episode of a mental nature.

The parachute girl only spoke Italian. But --- When she spoke to Hurley she spoke English!!! IMO .... Hurley is having an episode of a mental nature.

Actually she spoke Chinese as well (Jin said "Chinese" and shrugged his shoulders like "I have no idea"). And portuguese (when she spoke to Mikhail the closed captions said "speaking Portuguese"

The parachute girl only spoke Italian. But --- When she spoke to Hurley she spoke English!!! IMO .... Hurley is having an episode of a mental nature.

Actually, she spoke first Spanish, then Chinese, then Italian, then English!

I think that it is an indicator that the world at large thinks the plane was found and there were no survivors. This means a couple of things: 1) Nobody is looking for them (or at least no one other than Penny), and 2) Somebody has covered it up.

The latter leads to the interesting question of who is doing the cover up. We have plenty of information about powerful people and corporations being tied to the Losties, so it seems we have several candidates.

I really don't think the wreckage they found could be parts of the real plane that washed away because, remember, the pilot said that they were 1,000 miles off course and that they were looking for them in the wrong place. For the plane they found to be the real one, they either searched in a 1,000 mile perimeter, or the pieces of the plane floated 1,000 miles away.

Maybe the parachutist at one time had Desmond-like flashes of a crash with no survivors. Something happened that changed the fate of the survivors. :confused:

Did whoever in the world is in charge of this all crash an empty plane and fake the crash somewhere else to deter anyone from looking for the real crash?

As Hurley said - What?


i mentioned the movie milleneum earlier in the live east coast thread, and the more i think about it, i am more and more going in that direction.

IMO,..


there is yet ANOTHER group of beings on the island
the unknown group MIGHT have Hawkings and bro.Campbell as members, therefore, being behind/involved with the time-travel/shifting
if the unknown group IS in control of time/space, then it is they who would be able to stop/shift time, remove specific passengers from flt.815, plant those people on the beach of the island ( on which there has been a fake crash site built

reopened thread as long as it is not just a discussion about purgatory.

We never saw Richard come to the Island with Juliet, only Ethan.......Richard is on the Island now, but we don't know when he actually came....it could have been after he spoke to Ben on the monitor in the Flame station.......and as for that fact we never saw Richard on the monitor in the Flame station and we never heard him.....Ben could have faked that whole exchange!

Faking the crash somewhere else is the only thing I could think of that would explain what she said. She was still too sick and hurt to be able to be duplicitous.
Well, I was wrong...I thought that maybe she's from the future and that everyone that's on the island does eventually die and someone in her time has found the plane. :frown:


dude thats more than my brain can handle right now lol

There's no proof of this at all, except for Richard Alpert. I think he's the only one we know of who's left the island. We only know of Ethan coming with Juliet - for all we know he came and died in the same trip.

Please correct me if I'm wrong!

TPTB have been saying that this is not purgatory since Season 1. I don't know how to say it any more plainly than that, but then again, we've still got people who believe that Christian Shepherd is still alive after Damon and Carlton have stated repeatedly that he is D E A D.
100%
I really don't think the wreckage they found could be parts of the real plane that washed away because, remember, the pilot said that they were 1,000 miles off course and that they were looking for them in the wrong place. For the plane they found to be the real one, they either searched in a 1,000 mile perimeter, or the pieces of the plane floated 1,000 miles away.

Currents can carry things in the water thousands of miles without a problem.
100%
She's totally a plant.

She did say "I'm not alone", according to another thread on here. Why would she say that, in a language ONLY Mikhail can understand, if she wanted everyone to have that information.

Because Damon and Carlton have already stated that SHE IS NOT AN OTHER!

If you're going to play the guessing game, please be aware that some of this stuff has already been revealed and is even posted in the spoiler section of this forum. Coming from Damon and Carlton should be an authoritative source.

And she spoke in several languages. The first was actually Portugese, then the Italian, and I think a third language, though I couldn't make it out.

Parachutist only spoke Italian except!!! to Hurley she spoke English when no one else was around to hear. IMHO Hurley is having a mental moment. Until I hear otherwise I am thinking TPTB threw it in to draw more people at the water cooler to watch the last few EP's of Lost to Boost the Ratings.

The fact that she kept changing the language she spoke in, like switching frequencies on a radio, really stood out.

If she could hear Hurley/Desmond/Charlie speaking English, why try to communicate in Portuguese, Chinese and Italian?

I really don't think the wreckage they found could be parts of the real plane that washed away because, remember, the pilot said that they were 1,000 miles off course and that they were looking for them in the wrong place. For the plane they found to be the real one, they either searched in a 1,000 mile perimeter, or the pieces of the plane floated 1,000 miles away.

If the wreckage was actually found, it could've been found by someone other than the search team. Fishermen, divers, researchers, military, anyone could've found a piece of the wreckage, reported it to authorities who then would've investigated it.

Or the pieces floated 1,000 miles away.

Either way, there are reasonable explanations for how the wreckage was found.

o k, starting off WOW!! My jaw fell off at the visceral reaction to the no survivors bit. That is until I started to think about the most logical explanations. I really think it is very possible that the rescue teams definitely found the fuselage and tail sections after they washed off the beach. While looking up information about the TWA Flight 800 crash I found this.

"The first 99 bodies were found floating on the surface of the ocean and were recovered by various civilian, military, and police vessels during the night of July 17, 1996, and throughout the day of July 18, 1996. The majority of the remaining victims were recovered by U. S. Navy divers and local police divers during the next 96 days."

Now it took the navy divers 96 days to recover the bodies of a crash right off the coast of Long Island. My point is If they found the wreckage at sea, then there's no way in hell they'd be concerned about bodies at all.Remember all she said was that there were no survivors found, she didn't say that everyone was accounted for and they are all certaintly dead. Maybe they received the transponder signal from the tail section once it was out of range of the islands "magical powers".

The only other thing I could think of that is even the smallest bit plausible in my mind is that the crash was faked. This is obviously much more elaborate and unplausible until more evidence is found to support it. We do however know that the others have quite a bit of interesting resources, but enough to fake a crash of an airplane that big, I'd be skeptical. Perhaps the others moved the wreckage with the sub or something to some other place far away from the island to throw them off course?

Parachutist only spoke Italian except!!! to Hurley she spoke English when no one else was around to hear. IMHO Hurley is having a mental moment.

What about when she spoke Chinese? Was Jin having a mental moment then?

I got the impression from the tone of her (remarkably lucid, in the circumstances) comments that she was recalling an incident (the crash) in the fairly distant past. But if so, how would she recognise instantly the flight number? How many people can recall the flight numbers pertaining to notorious crashes such as that over Lockerbie etc? I hope this is an indication that time hasn't passed any (or at least excessively) differently off-island rather than a tenuous narrative device.

Is it safe to say this is the "jump the shark" moment we've been promised? It certainly seems like this is, or could be, a game changer.

After all the outside world seems to think the losties are all dead... or some version of the outside world.

I am at a total loss to explain this. I don't accept the purgatory theory, as it's been denied many times over. It's possible the island is some kind of nexus between possible worlds but... that seems like a stretch. The others could have faked the whole thing but... that too seems somewhat odd, especially since we've been lead to believe that the island can't just be stumbled on.

I dunno, but I have a feeling we won't really get much more explanation on what this means until the finale... if not the opener of next season.

o k, starting off WOW!! My jaw fell off at the visceral reaction to the no survivors bit. That is until I started to think about the most logical explanations. I really think it is very possible that the rescue teams definitely found the fuselage and tail sections after they washed off the beach. While looking up information about the TWA Flight 800 crash I found this.

"The first 99 bodies were found floating on the surface of the ocean and were recovered by various civilian, military, and police vessels during the night of July 17, 1996, and throughout the day of July 18, 1996. The majority of the remaining victims were recovered by U. S. Navy divers and local police divers during the next 96 days."

Now it took the navy divers 96 days to recover the bodies of a crash right off the coast of Long Island. My point is If they found the wreckage at sea, then there's no way in hell they'd be concerned about bodies at all.Remember all she said was that there were no survivors found, she didn't say that everyone was accounted for and they are all certaintly dead. Maybe they received the transponder signal from the tail section once it was out of range of the islands "magical powers".

The only other thing I could think of that is even the smallest bit plausible in my mind is that the crash was faked. This is obviously much more elaborate and unplausible until more evidence is found to support it. We do however know that the others have quite a bit of interesting resources, but enough to fake a crash of an airplane that big, I'd be skeptical. Perhaps the others moved the wreckage with the sub or something to some other place far away from the island to throw them off course?

Excellent post! It's entirely possible that partial wreckage was found with enough evidence to convince authorities that all passengers died. And it's been 90 days. Perhaps there were recent news reports stating that all passengers on 815 were considered dead and parachute girl heard these reports shortly before her ill fated journey.

Of course that doesn't answer why she had a backpack with Desmond and Penny's pic, plus knew his name. :confused:

ok. If no survivors (or survivors bodies) was found in the ocean for such a long period as 90 days, I have to say that all passengers have to be presumed dead - it's normal. Losties was not found for 3 month's, of course ouside world thinks they all dead

Is it safe to say that when Oceanic Flight 815 never reached it's destination, people assumed that the flight crashed somewhere and because they still hadn't found the plane, they just assumed there were no survivors? (THEY= the media, the rest of the world)

I think the parachutist is solely working for Penny. Desmond was not an Oceanic 815 passenger, and Desmond has been "lost" for 3 years......although we don't know how long Penny's been trying to find him. (we only assume it's been all this time b/c of how passionate and determined Desmond was to believe Penny was the parachuter)

Assuming the Artic tundra team of portugese men sent out a parachuter AFTER they called Penny, the plane crash would have already happened.....giving the rest of the world plenty of time to hear about it's disappearance and thus making "parachute chick" extremely surprised to hear that the island she was sent to (to recover Desmond) not only holds Desmond....but the Oceanic Flight 815 passengers that apparently survived!

As for speaking in the different languages.....I guess at first I assumed she recognized Jin as Asian, and tried to speak the language she knew of the region she assumed he was from. She recognized Hurley as possibly Latino, and tried to speak Spanish.....

I know it's been confirmed that when she spoke portugese to Mikhail she said, "I'm not alone". Followed by the suspicious exchange between Des and Mikhail, and Mikhail "translating" for the girl.....

Could it be that Mikhail didn't know what she was saying at all? And by that I mean, not simply covering up what she said....but truly just making something up?

I'm still trying to figure out why she busted into English at the very last second....after having heard them all speak English.......I don't know.....

I'm probably totally wrong about everything......ah, the beauty of LOST.:drowsy:

And, to speak true.....I hope the plane crash was planned. That'd be awesome. haha.:redface:

i think it's in the way you interpret what she said. she didn't say they had found the bodies of the crew or even better, she didn't say they (whoever they could have been) reported the crew dead. i think i'm confusing you cuz i think i just confused myself.

what i am trying to say is that dharma or whoever is covering this mess up by not reporting what actually happened. the ocean is very big. people will believe almost anything and i sure as hell would believe a whole plane could be lost out in the middle of the pacific never to be seen again.

I think that it is an indicator that the world at large thinks the plane was found and there were no survivors. This means a couple of things: 1) Nobody is looking for them (or at least no one other than Penny), and 2) Somebody has covered it up.


Penny is NOT looking for survivors of Oceanic 815. Not by a long shot. She is only looking for Desmond, and it is entirely possible that the woman is sent to the vicinity after the island location was revealed during the activation of the swan failsafe.

As for the world at large assuming that there were no survivors, that could be a reasonable deduction if some of the wreckage was found in the open seas with some of the dead bodies. There may have been pieces of wreckage with enough identification (serial number perhaps) to tie back to the downed plane. With all due respect, IRL I do not think we have found every body died in every plane crash over large bodies of water. One could only assume that if a passenger is not found over a period of time, that the body is likely buried in the bottom of the ocean strapped to the wreckage.
100%
what i am trying to say is that dharma or whoever is covering this mess up by not reporting what actually happened. the ocean is very big. people will believe almost anything and i sure as hell would believe a whole plane could be lost out in the middle of the pacific never to be seen again.

If they found part of the wreckage, and we know for a fact that at least part of the tail section splashed down into the ocean and part of the fuselage, with bodies inside, washed away, it is not illogical for people to assume that there are no survivors. I don't think they will send divers into the bottom of the South Pacific just to locate every dead body.

My guess, Either:

1. Parachutist is lying. if the plane was found, no survivors, none of this on the island actually happened, then desmond must also have been discovered dead when they were searched ? (they both are relatively close the the swan). But she did not seem surprised to see desmond alive, more of a, she was expecting to see him/give him a message.


2. This invisible snowglobe that surrounds the island and its near ocean, exists in the same exact spot as a duplicate island and ocean. Dual realities in the same space of matter. so for some reason dez, roussou (sp), 815, black rock, whatever, went through the barrier into this reality. In the duplicate reality, they just crashed and died on a plain old island.

#2 might explain things such as "god cant see this island", obviously dez's snowglobe comment


If she is telling the truth, you wonder, it must mean michael and walt died at sea, or got to safety but never told where they came from.
100%
Re: Parachutist works for the others...
She knew Desmond instantly. Do the others even know who Desmond is? (just functioning off my tired memory here). But, even if they saw him in the hatch, and we dont know at what time they realized that capability in the pearl..there was no sound. just video. i dont think the others have met him. they did not have a spy at the beach in season 3. how would they know his name?

And the copy of the pic of desmond. why of him? seems so arbitrary?

The other thing, to me, that supports that theory, is that Mikhail came because the plan was for her to send off the flair when she arrives, and she flew/parachuted in because it has been hard/near impossible to get to the island, and she brought a sat phone (their coms have been down)

Just seems more likely she is there from penny. for dez.

She's totally a plant.

She did say "I'm not alone", according to another thread on here. Why would she say that, in a language ONLY Mikhail can understand, if she wanted everyone to have that information.

I mean, c'mon, we know she speaks English. So why the italian? Because she was meant to deliver the message the Mikhail in a way that wouldn't compromise her position among the Losties as someone who might be able to help them.


I cannot believe Charlie, Jin (well, he has an excuse), and Desmond did not realize
that "Thank you" in Italian is "Gratzi". I don't speak Italian and even I know that. What a risk
to take!

I'm of two thoughts on this:-

Desmonds meddling in time has caused a split or anomaly in time. Thus explaining two planes,two sets of survivors etc.

Or the Others agents in the outside world created a fake crash site for the world media to latch onto. So if bodies were found then how was DNA faked etc?

Is this why all the hairbrushes were gone in the pilot episode?? :-D

I originally came onto this thread to say that this ep clarified to me that the crash was planned/faked by the Others, but there have been some interesting points made that show Parachute girl could work for the Others.

But I'm sticking to the faked crash theory.

If you watch One of Us, Ben does seem rather smug when telling Juliet she needs to finish her research before she can go home, and "maybe there are some new mothers on that plane." I think he knew it was coming, and perhaps planted some of the survivors on it. I think Dharma or whoever got their plane full of whoever they could that fit the bill for what the Others needed...i.e. fertile people.

However, he does seem sincere when he says that a "spinal surgeon fell out of the sky". Maybe he didn't know Jack would be on the plane. So, here's my list so far:

Planted survivors: Kate, Sawyer, Claire
Random survivors: Jack (had to fight to get his Dad on the plane..maybe he wasn't supposed to leave Sydney so soon?), Sayid (changed his flight to attend to his friend's remains) and probably a lot of others

Mikhail verified again for us that the Others know there are healing properties on the island, so maybe they were comfortable getting people there via crash because survival was probable.

I'm of two thoughts on this:-

Desmonds meddling in time has caused a split or anomaly in time. Thus explaining two planes,two sets of survivors etc.

IMO, desmundo's trip through time happens when he turned the key.

however, what im not sure about, is if the turning of the key is what caused the swan to explode/implode, or did the swan explode/implode because the 108 machine wasnt used.

furthermore, if the discharge that happened the day desmond followed and killed kelvin, then that shows us that the discharge can happen without the swan being destroyed.

so, if desmonds time-trip was a result of the magnetic discharge, then the plane could of been affected too. that then leads us to the question: has the plane travelled in time..
and if so, could there be two diff. planes (one that continued on , and one that crashed on tha beach. if thats true, then two sets of the Losties were made too.




Or the Others agents in the outside world created a fake crash site for the world media to latch onto. So if bodies were found then how was DNA faked etc?

im not sure the Others were responsible

Faking the crash somewhere else is the only thing I could think of that would explain what she said. She was still too sick and hurt to be able to be duplicitous.
Well, I was wrong...I thought that maybe she's from the future and that everyone that's on the island does eventually die and someone in her time has found the plane. :frown:

+1

A faked plan crash seems so... far fetched and lame, no offense. it would raise the significance of all the losties by so much if the others had to go to that extent to have the losties on the island and i just dont buy that. it doesnt seem to go along with Lost either (you know how theres lost time, and the motif of time inconsistencies/irregularities/wormholes/etc). It makes it seem like the others are an entity/conspiracy on a level of their own, individual and more powerful to the rest of the world. I like to think that they discovered the island and all its magic and are there to exploit or research the island, and that they wouldn't even think to fake a whole plane crash...

I think what guinevere said is very plausible.

But also, this episode also made me think a lot about Bermuda's triangle and phenomenon of the sort. I already know all about the scientific explanations behind the triangle (something about gas released from the ocean floor disrupting the dynamics of the water and air above causing boats to sink and planes to crash) but it doesn't seem far fetched at all if the writers were to play off the whole mystique and popularization of such phenomenon.

Maybe the plane flew through a certain spot in space where the plane and its passengers diverged from the original timeline? The reason why I think this is because the people traveled in a vessel (the plane) through an irregularity (like a wormhole or a rip caused by the EM blast) and crashed somewhere while away from the island, the plane crashed and people died. I only think about this because that other was reading that book by stephen hawking and was on the page about wormholes.

Okay, I just watched the episode again.....

I would still maintain my theory about the plane simply going missing and the outside world thinking that the plane (and it's passengers) simply didn't survive.

HOWEVER! The ONE thing parachute girl said that keeps tripping me up is this:

"They found the plane"

WHAT??????? In the immortal words of Hurley....."WHAT?"

Yeah.....If she had simply said, "There were no survivors" and hadn't mention someone finding the actual plane, then I would have stuck to my intial theory.

but now, hearing that she not only said "there were no survivors" but also "they found the plane".........

now I'm just a big ball o'confusion.

I am allowed one crazy theory so here it is. The "bubble" that surrounds the island works like a prism. When light enters a prism it is split and reflected. When 815 entered the "bubble" it was split apart (in more ways than one). A reflection of the losties was sent back in the other direction and was found by the world. The reason Micheal was given a bearing to follow was so that he could leave the "bubble" perpendicular to it's surface and not leave a reflection. Perhaps Desmond's time travel experience was him seeing his reflection's experiences. A reflection moves backwards so it could stand to reason that without Des' perception of time the reflection moved steadily backwards in time therefore not effecting the current lostie's timeline (why Charlie didn't recognize him). The connection could have been made when the button wasn't pushed. The backwards mirror Des could also explain the future sight.

IMO, desmundo's trip through time happens when he turned the key.

I agree with this too. But because he went back and changed things (however slight) it caused a change in the timeline.(Theres another thread about how the producers said that things on the island are having an effect on the outside world ala The Butterfly Effect,that might be this right?)
But maybe now because of the island being in some kind bubble the island was in effect "immune" to the timeline changing around it.

I don't know if that makes sense because of all of the charlie/desmond stuff going on.

Also I don't think "the others" were responsible for the crash. Desmond was. But if there was a coverup/fakery in the outside world about 815 then I believe the others agents were responsible for it. I mentioned the fact that DNA to help in the illusion (finding the bodies etc) could of been collected via the missing hairbrushes from the Pilot (was it the pilot episode where Claire mentioned this?)

Cyborg771 That's a pretty interesting theory. I like. I was reading about light and prisms etc the other day. Theres a bit about it (a bit more in depth) in Hawkings " A Brief History of Time" which we all know has been on the show twice now.

I've been trying to get people to listen to this theory of mine since January :The Jaws of Death (http://thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=67760).

Basically, it's about the idea that those brought to the Island were in situations in which they were about to die anyway. I think the explanation will be something along the lines of not wanting to upset the natural course of humanity, or something like that.
And I also think that's what Juliet's 9 / 11 reference was about - had she not come to the Island she would have died in those attacks somehow.

If you're interested in the thread just skip to the end because all the pages in the middle were mainly taken up with people mistakenly thinking I was saying Lost is all about 9 / 11.

I've been trying to get people to listen to this theory of mine since January :The Jaws of Death (http://thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=67760).

Basically, it's about the idea that those brought to the Island were in situations in which they were about to die anyway. I think the explanation will be something along the lines of not wanting to upset the natural course of humanity, or something like that.
And I also think that's what Juliet's 9 / 11 reference was about - had she not come to the Island she would have died in those attacks somehow.

If you're interested in the thread just skip to the end because all the pages in the middle were mainly taken up with people mistakenly thinking I was saying Lost is all about 9 / 11.

That may explain how the universe as it were course corrected itself and therefore the anomaly (two planes) occurred.

Has to be a fake crash. Just has to be.
And wow, Deadshot, that's a good theory about the hairbrushes...that would certainly be a good explanation. I think for that to happen, all of the brushes would have to have been taken before the flight even took off. Though I wonder how they'd 'inject' dna into a bunch of corpses like that. Hmm.

omg. Lost.

Personally, I think this is the best evidence yet that there are Others/Dharma operating all over the world. They helped in the theft of 'these' people to get at least some of 'these' people on the island. The Outside Others helped them onto the plane, the Plane Others deliberately crashed the plane, so that the Island Others would have them as their human guinee pigs.

Has to be a fake crash. Just has to be.
And wow, Deadshot, that's a good theory about the hairbrushes...that would certainly be a good explanation. I think for that to happen, all of the brushes would have to have been taken before the flight even took off. Though I wonder how they'd 'inject' dna into a bunch of corpses like that. Hmm.

omg. Lost.

I imagine ethan could of collected said samples in his first few hours at the crash site whilst rummaging through the wreckage etc.

Did whoever in the world is in charge of this all crash an empty plane and fake the crash somewhere else to deter anyone from looking for the real crash?


My thought exactly. I think DHARMA/Jacob/Whoever faked the crash in sea, so that people would not be looking for the real 815.

ok here goes.....

The Others are not the Dharma Initiative ( so we are led to believe, and I'll bite on that ) and the "takeover" of the island happened pretty much the way it's been described thus far.

Ben needed test subjects for continuing experiments on women and pregnancy. The plane somehow got off course and wound up crashing on the island. Ben asks for DETAILED files on all the passengers. This information will be used when identifying the bodies of ....wait for it .... the dead members of the Dharma Initiative.

Remember, the Others are working all throughout the world. To have someone falsely identify bodies is not out of the realm of possibility here. There's more that I have questions on, but this is the wrong topic thread to talk about it...

Faking the crash would have been a logistical nightmare.
Now, as others stated, the NTSB or whatever agency was investigating would definitely know whether or not the plane they found was the actual plane that crashed. Even if Dharma or the others or whoever was behind it wanted to, finding a spare 777 aircraft, painting it and fitting it out to match Oceanic 815 would be virtually impossible without someone noticing. Someone would notice a 777 missing.
However, this leads me to a new point. If it was faked, we can assume that the flight that took off from Sydney as Oceanic 815 was the actual plane that was found. BUT.. we know that the wreckage on the beach was of an L1011 aircraft. Just by looks, etc a trained eye (or aviation buff) would recognize this. The writers have said it was because that was the plane they cuold get their hands on, which makes sense. BUT, perhaps, it could also be the plane that the Others could get their hands on. *insert whacked out theory here*
They could have landed the plane somehow, removed those that they wanted, then crashed the real 815 somewhere away from the Island where it would be found. I'm certain that if it was in the ocean, if a third of the people on board were not found, it would not be a big issue as such.
Once they had the people they needed or wanted for whatever reason, plant them on the beach, with the fake wreckage. I doubt anyone would have noticed if they had woken up in a burning/ exploding crashed plane, that it was not the exact same plane. If it looked the same, and they were on it, which clearly they were, then as far as they would be concerned it was the same plane. Well, that is to say, they would not notice as much as the FAA or NTSB would.
I know its grasping, but its the best logistical theory I could come up with to explain how flight 815 could possibly have been found, case closed, without any huge discrepancies. That is, of course, ignoring the more likely theory that the parachutist was actually a plant, or part of the Others.

Only one word comes to mind.................CON
The parachutist is telling a prearranged tale. Even if she there for Penny the only reason she'd tell Hurley that is she was told too. They could not have found the wreckage with no survivors they could have found partial wreckage with all presumed dead. However the media would in fact call the crash "no survivors" after a short time. But no way they found all the 815 wreckage........just wreckage

How on Earth can people think it's Purgatory? No-one seems to think the whole Penny/Naomi thing completely contradicts it? That scene at the end of LTDA?
What on Earth is wrong with people, why won't this silly, badly thought-out (Do people really think the show's ending will alieniate all the non-Christian viewers?) theory just die......what's wrong with you people? Anyone heard of Apophenia and Magical Thinking?

personally, i think she was lying through her teeth.
For one reason or another, she wants the losties to lose all hope in ever being rescued.
The way Mikhail came running immediately following the flare going up, i think she has some relation to the others, and Mikhail was expecting her.
That phone she was carrying was an alternate way for the Others to communicate with the outside world now that the Flame hatch has been destroyed.
As to why she was carrying a picture of Des.... :34853_huh:

ETA: And i do believe that TPTB have repeatedly stated that they are not in purgatory. Now whether you believe them or not is a totally different story.

Gotta agree with this - Mikhail was so easily helpful and knew she was carrying the phone. The others are all about smoke and mirrors - they don't want the Losties to know what is going on.

Well, being someone who loves a good mystery, I do hope something more interesting comes of this than Parachute-girl just lying. I think the theory that another plane was used to fake another crash so no one would look for the real 815 is plausible, even if it seems like, as someone described it, a logistical nightmare. Who knows what the others/ dharma are capable of doing?

personally, i think she was lying through her teeth.
For one reason or another, she wants the losties to lose all hope in ever being rescued.
The way Mikhail came running immediately following the flare going up, i think she has some relation to the others, and Mikhail was expecting her.
That phone she was carrying was an alternate way for the Others to communicate with the outside world now that the Flame hatch has been destroyed.
As to why she was carrying a picture of Des.... :34853_huh:

I'm just going to quote this again, like the poster above, cause it does make a ton of sense, considering Mikhail's actions. Mikhail probably thought the flare was from parachute-girl, not Hurley, and the phone being for him makes a lot of sense as well. Otherwise, you'd think Mikhail would have approached with a lot more caution than he did.

The picture of Desmond though.. that I can't explain either.

there is something definitely fishy about this girl. I think she is lying or just believes that what she is saying is the truth. You can never trust Mikhail to translate for you, that's just a given!! I don't know what she said to him sometimes and that irritates me, because i don't trust him one bit. I hope she lives and can explain herself to someone.

The way Mikhail came running immediately following the flare going up, i think she has some relation to the others, and Mikhail was expecting her.
That phone she was carrying was an alternate way for the Others to communicate with the outside world now that the Flame hatch has been destroyed.
As to why she was carrying a picture of Des....
I agree with this as well. Mikhail had to be expecting the woman. As to why she had a picture of Des, we know Juliet has been in contact with Ben and we know she gave Desmond a long and puzzled look on the beach. I suspect they are building a file on him and with their recent communication problems, this is how they have to do it.

Don't forget that the wreckage was washed out in Season 1. They probably found the wreckage and assumed all were dead.

Thats exactly what i was thinking-the fuselage and the tailsection were washed back out to sea-they could have recovered some of the bodies from the fuselage and assumed everyone else was dead- but you know what happens when you assume in this show:biggrin:

I still don't think Mikhail knew about the phone until Hurley said something about it....

I think Mikhail thought another Other found a new supply drop....

Hey Guys,
WTF is the parachutist talking about? She states that flight 815 has been found, and there were no survivors??? What does this mean, I know that TPTB have stated that the island is not purgatory. However am I the only one left feeling a huge hint at it??? Don't get me wrong, I'm not a fan of this theory but what else can explain this?? Any thoughts??

I think the most likely explanation is that someone off the island either doesn't want them found or doesn't want the island exposed to the world. It would have to be someone with enough money and power to be able to pull off a cover-up like that and we have several people fitting that description to choose from, Mr. Paik, Mr. Widmore, etc.

But if this is the case, it leaves us with the question of how would this person or people have known where the plane crashed unless they were "in on it" ahead of time.

2. This invisible snowglobe that surrounds the island and its near ocean, exists in the same exact spot as a duplicate island and ocean. Dual realities in the same space of matter. so for some reason dez, roussou (sp), 815, black rock, whatever, went through the barrier into this reality. In the duplicate reality, they just crashed and died on a plain old island.

#2 might explain things such as "god cant see this island", obviously dez's snowglobe comment

Interesting theory! I think it's either that, or the media either assumed, pieced together, or were duped into thinking there were no survivors. I really don't think the parachutist was lying, because I believe she was sent by Penny to find Des. If that's the case, then Penny probably has no idea there really are survivors from 815, because she has no way of knowing that Des is stuck on an island with them. She probably knows the island is hard to find (maybe because she had someone plant some sort of transponder on his boat before he left, and the only time the signal got through was when the sky turned purple), but she probably figured he's alone on it. If that's the case, probably all the parachutist knows is that she's looking for Des and this is where he probably is. She probably just heard the media coverage of flight 815 and assumed it was accurate. IMO ;)

Did whoever in the world is in charge of this all crash an empty plane and fake the crash somewhere else to deter anyone from looking for the real crash?

As Hurley said - What?
Yeah, Hurley summed up EXACTLY what I was saying out loud to the TV, after I got done picking my jaw up off the floor! God I LOVE THIS SHOW!!!!!!!!!!!!! But anyway, I actually think that what you said in your post is dead on: I personally think that the off-island Others did indeed stage ("They're pretending!") an elaborate fake crash site elsewhere so that no one would search for the survivors of the real Flight 815. I further feel that Ben is lying to his own people or most of them (some might be in on it) when he makes it seem that he is surprised by the crash, like it was news to him and it was an accident. As Locke said way back in Season One: "We were all brought here for a reason!"

It may seem far-fetched that the Others could stage a faux crash but think about how well-funded these people obviously are, AND I believe that they owned Oceanic. They just took another Oceanic jet and, ba-da-bing, ba-da-BOOM, fake crash.*

That's my current working theory, anyway.

* edited to add: A chilling thought is, where did they get any bodies that they might have stuck into the faux Flight 815's fuselage? Or did they make the crash seem so fiery that it would be plausible that there were no remains at all? I think it is more likely that they got some bodies from somewhere but that they were all unidentifiable...OR did they just clone themselves up some faux doubles of everyone on the real 815, from their "eugenics" program? Anyway, that's a whole other post (get it, "Other" post?...omg, too early in the morning to attempt a pun), but, meanwhile, back at the inn, YES, I think they staged a faux crash site. They're big stagers.

I just don't understand why you people cant believe a very simple fact that the fuselage and the tail section washed out to see pulled by currents outside the shield or what ever it is that keep the island hidden. Remeber this is the middle of the pacific the chance of finding any bodies would be near imposable. Human bodies would float after a day or so of death. Thats not couting the thousands of fish and sharks that ravage the bodies. I real life all it would take is locateing a few parts of the plane that can identfiy it as flight 815 and everyone would assum death to all on board.

I believe the parachutist is working for Penny and was sent to find Desmond. I believe the two men working at that station in the Artic picked up coordinates of the island when the hatch imploded, as it gave off enough electromagnetic energy that their equipment picked up an "anomaly", as it was shown.

I think Mikhail looked surprised when he first came up them and the parachutist, as if he'd expected to see a familiar face and not the survivors +1. (I don't think it'd be beneath the Others to send signals via flares and the like).

As to why the parachutist switched between so many languages it could have been a result of her state of mind. Her lung was filling with blood, which made it hard for her to breathe (which could clearly be heard) and lack of oxygen can cause mental confusion. She probably didn't realize that she was speaking several languages. Or if she had, it was probably because she couldn't be certain what language they spoke. (As pointed out by another).

I believe she's on the island to find Desmond. But Lost keeps pulling the carpet out from beneath us, so all we really can do is wait and see what unfolds.

Don't forget that the wreckage was washed out in Season 1. They probably found the wreckage and assumed all were dead.


First thing I thought of.

My first reaction to why the outside world would think they were dead was because they found the wreckage out at sea after it had been washed away.

But then I remembered how Desmond tried to sail away but kept returning to the island. Then when Michael and Walt left they were given specific coordinates to follow. Things that try to leave the island keep coming back.

That makes me think there was a cover-up. Could be proven wrong eventually, but that's what I think.

I favor the "Others' faked another crash" theory for a couple of reasons:

1. We have already had indications that there has been some work "behind the scenes" to get particular people on this particular flight- whether that is coincidence or not is another question, I guess.

2. We know that at least one of the people who worked for Oceanic is an Other - Cindy, the flight attendant.

3. While there would be logistical problems, we know that the Others have the ability to get very detailed files on all the passengers within a short time after the crash - stuff that you can't just Google, which shows, I think, that the Others' organization has people all over the world - Couldn't the Others have ties inside the NTSB or the FAA to help with the cover-up?

4. The Others have an interest in not having a bunch of people searching for the plane that just crashed onto their island.

The problem with this theory is that I'm still not sure that the Others knew the plane was going to crash, since it apparently was caused by the numbers not being entered into the computer. But even if they didn't know in advance, the cover-up could have been done after the fact if their organization has so many resources.

Interesting theory! I think it's either that, or the media either assumed, pieced together, or were duped into thinking there were no survivors. I really don't think the parachutist was lying, because I believe she was sent by Penny to find Des. If that's the case, then Penny probably has no idea there really are survivors from 815, because she has no way of knowing that Des is stuck on an island with them. She probably knows the island is hard to find (maybe because she had someone plant some sort of transponder on his boat before he left, and the only time the signal got through was when the sky turned purple), but she probably figured he's alone on it. If that's the case, probably all the parachutist knows is that she's looking for Des and this is where he probably is. She probably just heard the media coverage of flight 815 and assumed it was accurate. IMO ;)


I've always liked this theory, and it explains things that might be otherwise inexplicable. However, now that the "sky went violet" wouldn't the two realities be combined? In other words, wouldn't something have happened that allowed the existence of the other reality to suddenly become known to each other? However, beyond Desmond alone getting a new ESP power, nobody on the island seems to be aware of any other reality than the one they've existed in for the past 90 days. Or am I wrong?

I don't see the others worrying about people looking for a plane that crashed 1000 miles off course, at least not enough to have an elaborate fake crash set up. Their influence on the outside world is surely enough that they could take the simple route and fake the press release. "Hey guys found the plane no survivors, DNA (which they have possibly been collecting) confirms it.

I think the bigger question is why is pirate other still up and walking around?

I believe this has something to do with time and different realities. Somethings are just not by chance with Kate and her black horse, Jack and his father, Sawyer and the whispers, Sayid and that cat.

Maybe they are in a different period of time. Since Des is the only one to see the future, I am not sure what time frame they could be in.

The fact that she kept changing the language she spoke in, like switching frequencies on a radio, really stood out.

If she could hear Hurley/Desmond/Charlie speaking English, why try to communicate in Portuguese, Chinese and Italian?

I was in a car accident a few years ago and was in and out of consciousness. When the paramedics asked what hospital I wanted to go to I named a hospital that was bought and renamed 20 years earlier. My point? When you are injured and floating like she was, you don't always know what you're saying and your thoughts are all mixed up. I believe that is why she kept switching languages at first. It wasn't that she was trying to communicate, but that she was in and out of consciousness. But when she spoke to Hurley she was more awake, had more of a thought process as it were, and spoke English.

What if they were each handpicked for whatever reason...Jack to operate on Ben etc, drugged and bought to the island some other way. We've seen the room Karl was in, maybe they each had the "day of the crash" played before their eyes...(implanted memories) and woke up on the beach, in their shelters that were made for them, the next morning?

The 815 plane could have been found anywhere they dropped it..ok theres holes but it just came to me and I had to get it out before I forgot...hehe
For that matter, we could be watching their brain washing videos and if so, theres no rules...

I know it's far fetched but maybe the others were just bored and needed a new game to play...

http://thefuselage.com/Threaded/showpost.php?p=1515083&postcount=33


Just posted that ...

What do you guys think?


I also am in the train of thought ...that the plane was supposed to LAND on the island. Des screwed it up and it fell apart before it could.

what if the world did find the plane that crashed? along with all bodies ... the question would be, if one set of bodies was found dead, who or what are crash survivors on the island?

about faking another plane crashed to fool the world....what about the Black Box of the original Flight 815? How could they have faked that?

I am trying to figure out how giant metal pieces of plane "wash out to sea" so they could be found. Maybe the just found the scraps that float and that would translate to "they found the wreckage of the plane" and then to "they found the plane".

Of course next epi Hurley could say, "what do you mean they found the plane" and the parachutist could answer, "they found debris" and the mystery will be cleared up. Not that this show ever gives us misleading cliff-hangers or anything.

What about this theory. The girl that dropped from the sky is actually working with the others. She came to the island with a sat phone to establish comunications after they where severed. The last this she said the the eye patch guy was not thank you, it was orders for something else. The picture she has is because she is employed by whitmore industries and must know penny and is also looking for Desmond a a favor for penny.

What if they were each handpicked for whatever reason...Jack to operate on Ben etc, drugged and bought to the island some other way. We've seen the room Karl was in, maybe they each had the "day of the crash" played before their eyes...(implanted memories) and woke up on the beach, in their shelters that were made for them, the next morning?

This theory has some appeal. If nothing else it explains why they had that brief glimpse of Carl being wired to a visual stimulus machine. It also works nicely with the narrrtive they have used at the beginning many episodes seeing things through through the sudenly alert eyes of the suriviors.

However, it doesn't explain everything that happened since on the Island, like kate and Jack stumbling on the pilot who is then seized by smokey, breif cases bing uncovered under water, etc.

So my vote is, nice try but no dice

I guess these two never left the island...

http://thefuselage.com/Threaded/showpost.php?p=1515083&postcount=33


Just posted that ...

What do you guys think?


I also am in the train of thought ...that the plane was supposed to LAND on the island. Des screwed it up and it fell apart before it could.

The only problem with the plane was supposed to land on the island theory is that we've not seen a single flat piece of land large enough to land a plane on. You can't land a jet like that in a field.

or Naomi was lying. Not to much of a leap to think she's part of the whole con that Ben has going. Or he at least knew that she was coming and would create a distraction. That's what I think she is. A distraction.

Michael and Walt could still be on there way to finding 'rescue'. I think Ben was tricking them when he used that word. "Rescue". He never said home, the US, or LA. I think he wasn't sending them to the outside. His definition of rescue could be something different all together.

I guess these two never left the island...

Either that or the island leads to an alternate reality/world. In this world they were rescued and made it home. You don't enter the alternate world until you hit the island.

That might also explain why the island is only visible at certain time. The incident brought the island back to our reality for a split second. Enough for the North Pole guys to spot it on radar.

I've always had this theory that they are in purgatory. This like totally proves it. The Parachute Woman died and is now in purgatory with the rest of the losties.
Another possibility is that the Others are a much larger organization type thing than just the islanders. Perhaps they had a fake crash somewhere else?

Of course, I'm sure our lovely writer's will give a few answers before the finally and create more chaos and confusion.

I don't think purgatory works, logically. But I guess we'd need the whole explanation to know if it works.

We already know that the Others are part of a much larger organization, i.e. Mittelos Bioscience, and probably other front organizations as well. The simplest explanation for what Naom_ said was that Mittelos faked the crash wreckage somehow, to make sure that rescuers didn't find the island. The only problem was she said, "they were all dead" which sort of implies that they found the bodies... but maybe not -- I guess we'll find out eventually.
100%
I further feel that Ben is lying to his own people or most of them (some might be in on it) when he makes it seem that he is surprised by the crash, like it was news to him and it was an accident. As Locke said way back in Season One: "We were all brought here for a reason!"

That part is just not plausible. If the Others had brought the plane down, why would Ben be the only one to know? And why would he pretend not to? No, they may have all been brought for a reason, but if they were, it was by someone more powerful than the Others. We pretty much know the plane crashed because Desmond was late pressing the button, so if someone made the plane crash intentionally, they did it by "manipulating fate" as seems to happen in this show.

I don't really think Ben let Michael and Walt go home. Dont you think at least one of the Others would have tried to stow away with them to get off the island? My guess is he sent them to another place, where there were some nice Others just waiting for their arrival

I think we won't hear from Walt and Michael any time soon because of Harold Parinneaud wanting more out of his contract and the kid who played Walt hitting his growth spurt. I believe I read that somewhere. Maybe we will hear from them later. I don't know.

I don't really think Ben let Michael and Walt go home. Dont you think at least one of the Others would have tried to stow away with them to get off the island? My guess is he sent them to another place, where there were some nice Others just waiting for their arrival


It wouldn't be beyond Ben's capacity to prevent anyone who had shown an eagerness to get off the island (i.e., Juliet) from being on that dock in the first place. Therefore they wouldn't have had the chance to stowaway.

Very possibly, Michael and Walt are, in fact, on their way to the outside world. They're taking a slow boat to, well, maybe China, who knows--but it isn't a very seaworthy boat, and it can't be moving very fast. Only about 25 days have passed since they left, probably, and as a result, they could be on some other island in the South Pacific, looking for a way to get back to civilization.

That is assuming She-Whose-Name-Cannot-Be-Uttered was telling the truth. Which seems to be in some debate on this board. For me, I believe she was telling the truth--either as she knows it to be the truth, or the true truth, that the plane's wreckage was discovered and there were no survivors found. Early in Season One the wreckage on the beach washed out to sea. The tail section was also in the ocean--it never did make it to shore. Only the front landed on the island and stayed there. There were a number of burned bodies in that wreckage--thanks to the funeral pyre the Losties set to take care of the bodies. Anyone finding any of that would reasonably presume the plane crashed and somehow burned...in the ocean...yeah, kind of kooky, but there it is.

I've always had this theory that they are in purgatory. This like totally proves it. The Parachute Woman died and is now in purgatory with the rest of the losties.
Another possibility is that the Others are a much larger organization type thing than just the islanders. Perhaps they had a fake crash somewhere else?

Of course, I'm sure our lovely writer's will give a few answers before the finally and create more chaos and confusion.


I had posted a similar theory about two or three weeks ago. But I don't think they're in purgatory. I think the island is some kind of spiritual way station in which the Losties' souls are being examined and judged . . . like that Albert Brooks/Meryl Streep film, "Defending Your Life". Why else would Cuse and the other fellow state that the Others are not evil? The Others are probably agents in this other world who assist in examining the dead souls who perished on Flight 815.

I am trying to figure out how giant metal pieces of plane "wash out to sea" so they could be found. Maybe the just found the scraps that float and that would translate to "they found the wreckage of the plane" and then to "they found the plane".

Of course next epi Hurley could say, "what do you mean they found the plane" and the parachutist could answer, "they found debris" and the mystery will be cleared up. Not that this show ever gives us misleading cliff-hangers or anything.


Answer this, how can debris from the wreckage drift back to the "real world" when you cant go back and forth to the "real world" by boat?

Makes no sense.

Don't forget that the wreckage was washed out in Season 1. They probably found the wreckage and assumed all were dead.
The problem was she said "They were all dead." That's a lot different than "They were all presumed dead". It sounds like they found the bodies, and if they found the bodies, you would think they would do DNA testing to identify them. But maybe she was just being inaccurate.

O.K. So she said there were no survivors. Either they found the wreckage with no bodies and just assumed.........or they did find bodies with the wreckage. If bodies were found, could those bodies or the losties themselves be actual clones? I think someone set up this crash. Could clones be a possibility? Just going on my gut reaction here........and I am usually wrong.

If the wreckage that was found of flight 815 was found on the beach of the island they are on, then don't you think they would have found it from an aerial view? One that would have surely been able to spot Othersville at the very least? And they went to the island, saw a burnt up piece of the plane with some (but not every) body in it, then never bothered to look around the island to see if the rest of the people who weren't burnt up were still hanging around somewhere? I just don't think they would have found wreckage on their island and didn't investigate further (not unless Charles Widmore happens to own the company that was involved in the search, but that would be too farfetched, wouldn't it?)

Not to much of a leap to think she's part of the whole con that Ben has going. Or he at least knew that she was coming and would create a distraction. That's what I think she is. A distraction.
We know Penny had people searching for the island's electromagnetic anomoly and found it. I think that IS too much of a leap to suggest that Naomi showing up, carrying Des & Pen's picture, is anything but a result of that.

Michael and Walt could still be on there way to finding 'rescue'. I think Ben was tricking them when he used that word. "Rescue". He never said home, the US, or LA. I think he wasn't sending them to the outside. His definition of rescue could be something different all together.

As Ben said, once rescued, Michael is unlikely to say anything truthful about who he is or where he came from, lest someone find out just how he came to get off the island.

Plane crashes on an island that the outside world "can't see". Tail section drifts into outside worlds "vision", and so does the beach wreckage once it washes off shore.

Therefore, authorities find wreckage but no victims/survivors.

No purgatory or cover-up theories necessary.

The problem was she said "They were all dead." That's a lot different than "They were all presumed dead". It sounds like they found the bodies, and if they found the bodies, you would think they would do DNA testing to identify them. But maybe she was just being inaccurate.

Yeah. Lots of people seem to be forgetting that last line. To me she meant that 'all the people supposed to be on that plane were found dead'.

Plane crashes on an island that the outside world "can't see". Tail section drifts into outside worlds "vision", and so does the beach wreckage once it washes off shore.

Therefore, authorities find wreckage but no victims/survivors.

No purgatory or cover-up theories necessary.

Then why can't the survivors or others get back by floating or boating out into the worlds "vision". Desmond sailed for days and ended up right back where they started from. So did Micheals raft. Why wouldn't debris not float back?

We know Penny had people searching for the island's electromagnetic anomoly and found it. I think that IS too much of a leap to suggest that (this name is a spoiler until it is told to us in an ep) showing up, carrying Des & Pen's picture, is anything but a result of that.


We never saw Naomi with the backpack. It could have been planted.

As Ben said, once rescued, Michael is unlikely to say anything truthful about who he is or where he came from, lest someone find out just how he came to get off the island.

I think he was answering a direct question from Michael as to why he would let them go. He didn't say that they were being freed he was giving a "what if you were, why wouldn't you say anything." I beleive he was playing a mental game. Giving them and the other castaways within earshot false hope of finding rescue.

I was thinking that "she who fell from sky" was sent by Penny and part of the whole mission witht two Portugese guys. Going with this idea that would mean that she was looking for Des and Des only. She would also be looking for him on a sailboat, not a plane. So how is it that she knew so much about flight 815? hmmmmmmmm

Then why can't the survivors or others get back by floating or boating out into the worlds "vision". Desmond sailed for days and ended up right back where they started from. So did Micheals raft. Why wouldn't debris not float back?

Good question. Something to do with animate objects unable to escape the island's tractor beam? (for lack of a better word)

Good question. Something to do with animate objects unable to escape the island's tractor beam? (for lack of a better word)

The wreckage would have been underwater when it was pulled by currents. Like the submarine, it wouldn't have been subjected to the 'snow globe effect' that Desmond's sailboat did. That's why the sub is the only real way on/off the island. Anything on the water's surface is turned around/away from the island. Anything flying crashes. Not much margin for error while you're in the air!!:biggrin:

I was thinking that "she who fell from sky" was sent by Penny and part of the whole mission witht two Portugese guys. Going with this idea that would mean that she was looking for Des and Des only. She would also be looking for him on a sailboat, not a plane. So how is it that she knew so much about flight 815? hmmmmmmmm
The same way you can answer some basic questions on Sept 11 2001 or princess Diana's death, .......the news.

of course, the news. that means she has no more information on the issue than anyone else. The essential thing is that the losties now know no one is looking for them, which is somethin they should already have found.
and, finding no survivors does not mean they found all the dead bodies. They found no body swiming around the wreckage or in a lifeboat and then surmised they were all dead.

I agree with this too. But because he went back and changed things (however slight) it caused a change in the timeline.(Theres another thread about how the producers said that things on the island are having an effect on the outside world ala The Butterfly Effect,that might be this right?)
But maybe now because of the island being in some kind bubble the island was in effect "immune" to the timeline changing around it.

I don't know if that makes sense because of all of the charlie/desmond stuff going on.

Also I don't think "the others" were responsible for the crash. Desmond was. But if there was a coverup/fakery in the outside world about 815 then I believe the others agents were responsible for it. I mentioned the fact that DNA to help in the illusion (finding the bodies etc) could of been collected via the missing hairbrushes from the Pilot (was it the pilot episode where Claire mentioned this?)

Cyborg771 That's a pretty interesting theory. I like. I was reading about light and prisms etc the other day. Theres a bit about it (a bit more in depth) in Hawkings " A Brief History of Time" which we all know has been on the show twice now.

I agree with much of this. Any group that could build all those hatches on an island no one else can find "not even God" can surely cover up a plane crash. Even if it means the people doing the investigation are all paid by Dharma/Hanso/Whoever.

I've been trying to get people to listen to this theory of mine since January :The Jaws of Death (http://thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=67760).

Basically, it's about the idea that those brought to the Island were in situations in which they were about to die anyway. I think the explanation will be something along the lines of not wanting to upset the natural course of humanity, or something like that.
And I also think that's what Juliet's 9 / 11 reference was about - had she not come to the Island she would have died in those attacks somehow.

If you're interested in the thread just skip to the end because all the pages in the middle were mainly taken up with people mistakenly thinking I was saying Lost is all about 9 / 11.

The problem with this is the same with any "they are dead/purgutory" theory. It has to mean that Penny and her frozen cohorts can see electromagnetic events in the afterlife. So, is it heaven or hell that has all that technology? And is Penny dead, too?


Faking the crash would have been a logistical nightmare.
theory here*

Again, if their people are the only ones doing the "investigation" then they can come out with whatever results they want. Not much faking required.

about faking another plane crashed to fool the world....what about the Black Box of the original Flight 815? How could they have faked that?

Just report that it was lost. The ocean gets pretty deep in places and there would be no way to find it if it was destroyed, which does happen. Since they had/have one sub, why couldn't the people on the outside wait until the plane pieces washed out to sea, which did happen, get another sub to drag the parts to where they want them to be, or near enough and then "find" the crash site? After a long time it wouldn't be odd if no bodies or very few bodies were found.

I had posted a similar theory about two or three weeks ago. But I don't think they're in purgatory. I think the island is some kind of spiritual way station in which the Losties' souls are being examined and judged . . . like that Albert Brooks/Meryl Streep film, "Defending Your Life". Why else would Cuse and the other fellow state that the Others are not evil? The Others are probably agents in this other world who assist in examining the dead souls who perished on Flight 815.

Again, they recruited Juliette only to killer so she can go to a "spiritual realm" and perform medical procedures on dead pregnant women? Penny is able to pay people to watch out for magnetic anomolies at a spiritual way station? Claire gave birth after death? If Juliette was to die and go there, why kill her ex? Just kill her and take her. Way too many holes for these people to be dead. Huge holes.

I agree with much of this. Any group that could build all those hatches on an island no one else can find "not even God" can surely cover up a plane crash. Even if it means the people doing the investigation are all paid by Dharma/Hanso/Whoever.



The problem with this is the same with any "they are dead/purgutory" theory. It has to mean that Penny and her frozen cohorts can see electromagnetic events in the afterlife. So, is it heaven or hell that has all that technology? And is Penny dead, too?




Again, if their people are the only ones doing the "investigation" then they can come out with whatever results they want. Not much faking required.



Just report that it was lost. The ocean gets pretty deep in places and there would be no way to find it if it was destroyed, which does happen. Since they had/have one sub, why couldn't the people on the outside wait until the plane pieces washed out to sea, which did happen, get another sub to drag the parts to where they want them to be, or near enough and then "find" the crash site? After a long time it wouldn't be odd if no bodies or very few bodies were found.



Again, they recruited Juliette only to killer so she can go to a "spiritual realm" and perform medical procedures on dead pregnant women? Penny is able to pay people to watch out for magnetic anomolies at a spiritual way station? Claire gave birth after death? If Juliette was to die and go there, why kill her ex? Just kill her and take her. Way too many holes for these people to be dead. Huge holes.


According to that woman, the plane was discovered by the outside world. Found. And so were the dead bodies of the passengers.

Definite think that they are not in purgatory but beyond that I have no idea.

The parachutist is lying, she is a plant and she's trying to force them all into giving up hope of being rescued.

Sorry, but I just don't buy this theory. If you wanted to con someone into losing hope, tell them that "yeah, they searched and searched, then gave up and declared everyone dead. Sorry, but they're all done looking."

You don't say, "Oh yeah, they found your plane and everyone was dead" because that's not a plausible story. The person you're conning would just say "What? That's RIDICULOUS! It makes no sense! You've got your plane wrecks confused."

Maybe it's a con, but if it is, it's a terrible one.

Me, I say that they DID find it, bodies and all, and either a) it's a fake care of Jacob//Mittelos/Others, or b) it's their plane in a different time, or a parallel universe. Sorry dudes, but that's where they're headed! ;)

Just stating this to show if wreckage was found back in the non-Island world it was not the real 815.

Or, the losties were never on the real 815.

We, the viewers, don't have all the facts yet and the chutist doesn't know all the facts of how the Losties survived. Imagine this:
Day 1, Wednesday, September 22, 2004 - Oceanic Flight 815 is reported missing and is assumed to have crashed into the ocean. (One Of Us)
Day 5, Sunday night, September 26, 2004 - The dead bodies of Flight 815 are burned in the wreaked fuselage during a memorial service. (Walkabout)
Day 21, Tuesday, October 12, 2004 - The Losties move up the coast to avoid the natural erosion of the beach. (Whatever The Case May Be)
With help of ocean undercurrents, the fuselage washes out to sea and lands on the ocean floor past the "force field" line.
After day 21 - A rescue team discovers the fuselage on the ocean floor. The rescuers assume that the burned bodies are the result of a catastrophic mid-air break-up with fire engulfing the entire aircraft.
The rescuers did not see the Island and thus did not bother to continue the search.
Day 88, Saturday, December 18, 2004 - The chutist et. al. assume that there are no survivors from news reports. BUT, the chutist is not looking for the survivors of Flight 815 - she is looking for Desmond. (D.O.C.)

The chutist is relaying to Hurley what she and the rest of the world know or assume - that Flight 815 crashed into the ocean and that there were no survivors.
No time-travel "time-tunnel" like explanations or theories are needed.Remember: Upon awaking the chutist doesn't know Hurley from a hole in the ground, is probably a little groggy and has not heard Hurley's side of the story - how the Losties survived.

Tell ya'll what, next week when we have more details, I will use my powers of retro-clairvoyance* to explain what happen.


*Retro-clairvoyance is the ablity to witness an event and then explain what just happened. I, PapaThor, have this rare ablity and so do a few other people. There is no fee for this service. The joy of explaining the obvious is payment enough.

the others could have come up with a fake plane wreckage pretty quickly even if they didnt know the plane was going to crash in advance. they probably thought that people would never stop looking for the plane and they needed the new blood so they faked up a wreckage.
alternatively jacob/the island caused the waters to rise and wash the actual wreck far out to sea where it was found.

im not buying into the multiverse theories as yet

The fact that she kept changing the language she spoke in, like switching frequencies on a radio, really stood out.

If she could hear Hurley/Desmond/Charlie speaking English, why try to communicate in Portuguese, Chinese and Italian?

I took it that she was delerious from fever that resulted from her wound: she was just babbling in every language that she knew.

Remember: the first thing she said to Hurley was: "Where am I?"

Did whoever in the world is in charge of this all crash an empty plane and fake the crash somewhere else to deter anyone from looking for the real crash?

As Hurley said - What?

I think that powers in charge- Dharma, Mittelose Bioscience whatever created false news of the flight 815 being found with no survivors so people would stop looking for flight 815. IF people continued to look for flight 815 they might actually find it and the island. The others do not want any one finding the island.
100%
The parachute girl only spoke Italian. But --- When she spoke to Hurley she spoke English!!! IMO .... Hurley is having an episode of a mental nature.

Hurley translated her speaking Spanish as well before she spoke Chinese and later Italian. I found it odd that Hurley didn't pick up on her Italian. I was always told that Spanish and Italian and are quite similar

Or, the losties were never on the real 815.

Back in S1, there were different variations of a "two-planes" theory floating around all the Lost forums. When TPTB was asked about it, they said "there was only one flight 815".

I thought at the time it was another one of their non-answers because (1) they didn't say there was only one plane and (2) they didn't say the Losties were on 815.

A few details bother me:

1. The plane was 1000+ miles 'off course' when it crashed - there is no chance an organized search would come anywhere near the crash.

2. Why would Mittelos, etc. try to 'fake it' or con the media? The idea of protecting the location of the island sounds reasonable until you consider #1 above, plus nobody supposedly can find the damn island in the first place. Except for Desmond, a slave ship, a Nigerian drug plane, a balloonist, and flight 815...and now a helicopter with a parachutist. But, Mittelos can't find it anymore

Things just don't add up - maybe it's just the new math... never did get that.

Oldwiz

If this is true then I would say it puts a new spin on things here are some possible answers to this new information I have always thought Lost was the TV version of a movie kind of like M.A.S.H was a movie then a TV show

I think Lost was kind of like the movie The Island when the people were clones not allowed to breed and they were given a cover story as to how they got there, and the people who were in charge on The Island are the others.
Vanilla Sky were most of the story was a lucid Dream of a man who was frozen and the dream had gone bad. The people in the dream trying to contact him were just tech support and the equivalent of the others.
The Others since the Dharma people are called the others maybe they are all dead like the movie.
This could be a be cover up by Widmore or Hanso kind like Operation Northwoods http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoods

A few details bother me:

1. The plane was 1000+ miles 'off course' when it crashed - there is no chance an organized search would come anywhere near the crash.

2. Why would Mittelos, etc. try to 'fake it' or con the media? The idea of protecting the location of the island sounds reasonable until you consider #1 above, plus nobody supposedly can find the damn island in the first place. Except for Desmond, a slave ship, a Nigerian drug plane, a balloonist, and flight 815...and now a helicopter with a parachutist. But, Mittelos can't find it anymore

Things just don't add up - maybe it's just the new math... never did get that.

Oldwiz

"lost time"
TPTB said a major plot twist was coming up.
Desmond's journey.

Maybe the sky turning purple caused a rift in space/time where Desmond went backwards in time and made some changes. Because of those changes, he still came to the island, but never "the button" go off and pull the plane down. So, the plane crashed elsewhere, everyone died and these "lostaways" are now stuck out of time.

Or something. My head hurts.

Parallel Timelines. The parachutist was on a different timeline and when the hatch imploded, she hopped onto the losties.

Search for the plane, - there are many ways the outside world could know or suspect the plane was off course. But if the Others wanted to close down and halt the search for any reason all they had to do was tow some of the wreckage that washed into the sea to a fake crash site They did have a working sub and possible contact with company supply ships at the time the missing flight was found. Wreckage plus a few bodies are found perhaps even by an Other boat that radios in it has found wreckage and presto the search is assumed complete no survivers are found..

So perhaps LOST is a ghost story, then, something on the line of that Nicole Kidman film, The Others. (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0230600/)

That would explain the connections between "our world" and "theirs."

ok i read through almost this entire thread before breaking down ad posting . . .
and i had to post my revelation that the 2 guys on the boat in the seaosn finale of season 2 were speaking portugese, the same language spoken by our parachutist.

my second nugget of knowledge is this:
faking a crash would be difficult, but nothing is impossible if you have enough money and the right connections. think about all the fucked up stuff our government does or has done that we don't know about or that we think we understand... with enough money and power they have been able to convince all of the united states that they were not behind 9/11 for example.

and thus, my vote goes to...crash was faked.

ETA: this post coming from the US, by the way.

You deserve an award for reading that much:)

I'm not ready to go into the twilight zone on this. I'll say 815 really did crash as seen, and someone lied about finding wreckage to deter investigations from getting too close to the island. The quickness of the news stories on TV is suspicious too.

According to that woman, the plane was discovered by the outside world. Found. And so were the dead bodies of the passengers.
On the episode I watched it said "the wreckage of Flight 815 was found and there were no survivors" There was no mention (on my tv) about dead bodies found or who found the plane.
For me, that was a "wow" moment. Not sure if she is telling the truth - but the mere fact that she said it means something.

On the episode I watched it said "the wreckage of Flight 815 was found and there were no survivors" There was no mention (on my tv) about dead bodies found or who found the plane.
For me, that was a "wow" moment. Not sure if she is telling the truth - but the mere fact that she said it means something.
She said They were ALL DEAD.
100%
I still think that they couldn't have faked the conversation between the pilot of this 'faked 815' and the control to