Ok, maybe I'm completely missing something, but we're led to believe that Claire, who came to the island pregnant, would have died there just because she was pregnant.

And during this episode, we were led to believe that Sun would be fine if she had concieved the baby off the island, which is what Claire did, obviously.

Am I missing something? Probably..

Am I missing something? Probably..If you are, then I am too.
I realize that Claires illness was just the implant but if the con in that episode is that all preggers get sick/die then why would Juliet tell Sun that only women who become pregnant ON the island get sick/die...

It's been said that only people that conceive on the island die...Sun did, Claire didn't....

Becasue Juliet was lying about Claire. They were likely using her to try and develop a cure for the dying women. Like Juliet said, she was a control case. That part was true, but the part about them helping her because she was also showing symptoms was a lie. That was part of the implant con for Juliet to gain the Losties' trust. Claire was never in any danger. She was just being used for their research, and it's possible they also wanted Aaron but we still don't know why.

I'm a little confused. Did Juliet tell Claire that she would die because she was pregnant on the island? Oh wait, maybe she did? I can't remember. Did she tell Sun and Claire contradictory information?

Juliet was lying about Claire being in danger. In her flashbacks in "One of Us" she told Ben that the condition began with conception on the island and begged him to let her take the women off the island. Danielle, just like Claire, came to the island in her third trimester and delivered Alex without incident.

Cardie

Right, that's what I thought. Ok, less confused now. Thanks Cardie and PJ.

OH. That's right. Now I remember. Claire was just part of the research.

Makes sooo much more sense now. Funny the things you miss and then forget and then get antsy about.

Juliet said that she thought the problem began at conception.

How many pregnant women have there been that concieved off the island, then came there? So far, we only know of Claire. However, she could have been the exception, instead of the rule.

I guess I interpreted this to mean that prior to Claire, every pregnant woman on the island died. And since Claire lived, they are looking for the difference between Claire and the other 9. Assuming Juliet is as good of a researcher as they are making her out to be, then it would be conceivable to deduce that Juliet is theorizing/assuming that place of conception is the factor that causes women to live or die.

Or, perhaps they already knew this, and took Claire to try to find out what different between the women who conceive on and off the island.

Ok, maybe I'm completely missing something, but we're led to believe that Claire, who came to the island pregnant, would have died there just because she was pregnant.

And during this episode, we were led to believe that Sun would be fine if she had concieved the baby off the island, which is what Claire did, obviously.

Am I missing something? Probably..


I remember in One of Us, Juliet was telling Ben she thought that the pregnancy depended on conception. But Ben choose to not believe her and told her she had to stay. So I think Juliet knows that the womens' deaths are a result of getting pregnant on the island. She knew Claire was safe.

D/

Juliet said that she thought the problem began at conception.

How many pregnant women have there been that concieved off the island, then came there? So far, we only know of Claire. However, she could have been the exception, instead of the rule.

Don't forget about Rousseau, she said she was almost to term when she arrived and had her baby Alex on the island...of course we have to consider her mental state;)

Becasue Juliet was lying about Claire. They were likely using her to try and develop a cure for the dying women. Like Juliet said, she was a control case.

Yes, Claire was their control case, but do you understand what a control case is? They did not learn that people who conceived off the island would survive until Claire gave birth to Aaron. Until that time, no one else had gotten pregnant off island; all impregnations were on-island. Juliet asked Ben if they could take one of the women off island to get pregnant, and he said no, so she had no way of altering the test for a control. So, until Claire gave birth, they did not know what would happen to someone who arrived on the island pregnant. Now they have evidence that whatever problem is killing the women is caused when conception occurs on-island and not off.

So, no, Claire wouldn't have died, but they didn't know that. Re-watching season one, that discussion with Ethan had with Claire sounds a lot less sinister. He wasn't sure if she was going to survive or not, and that's why they wanted to make sure the baby was in good health, because as we learned tonight, no mother had made it into the third trimester, which Claire was in when they crashed.

So, until Claire gave birth, they did not know what would happen to someone who arrived on the island pregnant. Now they have evidence that whatever problem is killing the women is caused when conception occurs on-island and not off.

So, no, Claire wouldn't have died, but they didn't know that.

But they did know about Rousseau. After all Ben stole Alex. Maybe Juliet suspected that to be the case and wanted Claire to confirm her hypothesis.

Yes, Claire was their control case, but do you understand what a control case is? They did not learn that people who conceived off the island would survive until Claire gave birth to Aaron. Until that time, no one else had gotten pregnant off island; all impregnations were on-island. Juliet asked Ben if they could take one of the women off island to get pregnant, and he said no, so she had no way of altering the test for a control. So, until Claire gave birth, they did not know what would happen to someone who arrived on the island pregnant. Now they have evidence that whatever problem is killing the women is caused when conception occurs on-island and not off.

So, no, Claire wouldn't have died, but they didn't know that. Re-watching season one, that discussion with Ethan had with Claire sounds a lot less sinister. He wasn't sure if she was going to survive or not, and that's why they wanted to make sure the baby was in good health, because as we learned tonight, no mother had made it into the third trimester, which Claire was in when they crashed.

Now that you've said all that, I have the creeps about what the Others intended by taking J/K/S to that other little island. *shivers*

Re-watching season one, that discussion with Ethan had with Claire sounds a lot less sinister. He wasn't sure if she was going to survive or not, and that's why they wanted to make sure the baby was in good health,

Yes, remember Ethan saying he was going to miss Claire (presumably after they killed her and not just let her go)? Up until that point they had no reason to believe she would live, and maybe they were acually trying to help her. Alex may have imisnterpreted the Others plan (to maybe take the baby by c-section)? I not sure I believe the "we're the good guys" crap, but I did think about this scene in a different light.

But they did know about Rousseau. After all Ben stole Alex. Maybe Juliet suspected that to be the case and wanted Claire to confirm her hypothesis.

I think there's more to Rousseau's story than we've received so far. We only know that they took Alex after Danielle gave birth.
100%
Now that you've said all that, I have the creeps about what the Others intended by taking J/K/S to that other little island. *shivers*

I think we got a taste of what they intended when Juliet said she'd be collecting Kate's sample, as well as the rest of the female Losties. They're doing some reproductive engineering.

Didn't Juliet say that if Sun got pregnant off the island the SHOULD be alright, but she wasn't 100% sure? I think Claire must have been the first prego to come to the island, so they had to do tests- not that I think Juliet was 100% truthful on the subject- Alex thought they were going to kill Claire after all.

Didn't Juliet wanted to take people off the island and get them pregnant and bring them back and see what happened but Ben said no?

Good thread. I went back a week or so ago and rewatched "Maternity Leave", and then I was sure that the Others' story just doesn't add up on everything regarding pregnant women on the island. Juliet was probably lying, I think, when she said that Claire began to display the same symptoms that women who conceived on the island did, and that is why (per Juliet), the Others came and took her, allegedly to save her. Thing is, I don't think Alex misinterprets much. She is really, really super smart and on the ball, imho. And she was absolutely certain that the Others were going to cut Aaron out of Claire (*shudder*) and kill Claire. She was certain she had to get Claire out of there to save her life. So, what some of you guys are saying about Claire being a "control", a research experiment, makes sense to me.

Danielle conceived off the island and was fine, as was her baby, Alex. We can only hope that our Sun and her baby will be just fine, too...but what scares me is that the Others could con her into thinking that she should allow them to do all sorts of things to her (inject her with things, operate on her, etc.) to "save her", when really, like with Claire, she would just be a research experiment to them, although I'm sure they want her baby--they want children, they took the two children from the tail section and assimilated them into their society, they took Alex and did the same, they tried to take Aaron...me now thinks that they want the kids to keep their society going because they can't have their own...however, again, there is a huge hole in the logic there because these people are so powerful off-island that I see no reason they couldn't have some sort of off-island "breeding farm" and then just bring the mothers and children back. A hub and wife could be shipped off-island to conceive and, for that matter, go through the whole pregnancy and birth. Then when mom and babe are fine, they could come back from the Del Boca Other Pregnancy Paradise to the island.

Anyway...good thread and I think we haven't gotten the truth out of the Others about why they did tests on Claire and then ultimately took her. I think they wanted Aaron, for sure, and that as far as Claire was concerned, she was a guinea pig, and would probably have been killed at the end of the experiment, because if she were alive and let go to return to the LOSTies, the drugs they pumped her full of to placate her and make her will pliable to their own would have worn off and she would have eventually remembered everything, like she did, and she would have moved heaven and earth to get baby Aaron back. Even though she had planned to give him up for adoption before the crash, I think they knew it was too big a risk to leave her alive because adoption is one thing, leaving your baby with people who, in the sober, undrugged light of day had done what they did to her is another. They knew there was a big chance she would return with back-up to retrieve Aaron.

I think Sun is in danger. But not from her pregnancy. From the Others. If she trusts them and does what they want her to do, she could be in Dark Territory.

This whole thread is relevant only if you think Claire was really pregnant. I think Kate snuck in a baby in her backpack and swapped it for Claire's pregnant belly prosthesis.

This whole thread is relevant only if you think Claire was really pregnant. I think Kate snuck in a baby in her backpack and swapped it for Claire's pregnant belly prosthesis. Where exactly would that baby have come from?

Ok, maybe I'm completely missing something, but we're led to believe that Claire, who came to the island pregnant, would have died there just because she was pregnant.

And during this episode, we were led to believe that Sun would be fine if she had concieved the baby off the island, which is what Claire did, obviously.

Am I missing something? Probably..

I have to check the timeline, but I think that Juliet realized that the problem happened at conception BEFORE the plane crashed and Ethan took Claire. That means that, indeed, Claire was not in danger and that they only took her to inject the capsule that would later make her sick.

I have to check the timeline, but I think that Juliet realized that the problem happened at conception BEFORE the plane crashed and Ethan took Claire. That means that, indeed, Claire was not in danger and that they only took her to inject the capsule that would later make her sick.

Right - Juliette was lying to Claire. Claire was in no danger of dying from her pregnancy. Which is kind of funny - because why didn't Jack, Sun, or someone else call Juliette's bluff, i.e. say to her, "You said that women who conceived off-island were fine - so why did you mess with Claire in the first place?"

Right - Juliette was lying to Claire. Claire was in no danger of dying from her pregnancy. Which is kind of funny - because why didn't Jack, Sun, or someone else call Juliette's bluff, i.e. say to her, "You said that women who conceived off-island were fine - so why did you mess with Claire in the first place?"

Yes, this is what I'm wondering. I suppose she could reiterate that Claire's "symptoms" were the same as those of the women who died, so they didn't know she'd survive and deliver safely, but Jack should know Claire didn't have any abnormal "symptoms," or should at least ask Juliet what those symptoms were.

Rossue may have had her baby first, but I don't think anyone had a chance to test her before she had Alex. They stole Alex after she was born. probably never got their hands on Rossue at all.

Claire is the first women to arrive on the island already pregnant, that they had a chance to run tests on before she delivered. So I can see why they would take her and test her. To see what was different.

If that is true then it sort of leads back to the fact that the Others were going to kill her if alex hadn't stepped in.

Becasue Juliet was lying about Claire. They were likely using her to try and develop a cure for the dying women. Like Juliet said, she was a control case. That part was true, but the part about them helping her because she was also showing symptoms was a lie. That was part of the implant con for Juliet to gain the Losties' trust. Claire was never in any danger. She was just being used for their research, and it's possible they also wanted Aaron but we still don't know why.

Or they figured that doing a C-section on Claire was the best way forward since she was in the third trimester, still alive and the baby would have been viable. Maybe they didn't want to risk leaving it to nature in case they lost her and the baby.

If their plans had panned out, they'd have had a live baby to do tests on and also a live Claire for more tests. I think it's possible that Alex got the wrong end of the stick because she had seen so many pregnant women being taken to the station and ending up dead. She is pretty young after all.

Or they figured that doing a C-section on Claire was the best way forward since she was in the third trimester, still alive and the baby would have been viable. Maybe they didn't want to risk leaving it to nature in case they lost her and the baby.

If their plans had panned out, they'd have had a live baby to do tests on and also a live Claire for more tests. I think it's possible that Alex got the wrong end of the stick because she had seen so many pregnant women being taken to the station and ending up dead. She is pretty young after all.

Or having two mothers running around trying to get their babys back is more of a headache then they wanted.

Since Claire was a control for seeing if women who conceived off island could survive giving birth on island, taking her baby by C-section before she carried it full term would have left them with an incomplete test. Also if they were not going to allow their women to leave the island to conceive what good would it do to know that they could survive if they conceived off island?

However all this does point towards their using Kate as a test subject to see if women can survive the birth process when the conception occurs on Alcatraz island.

It also indicates that the Others, by withholding the information about the effect of conceiving on island from the Lostees, are willing to deliberately allow the Lostee women to die for the personal gain of the Others i.e. babies to steal. They do not care if Claire survived or if Kate or Sun survives as long as they get their answers to the problem of island births and/or babies to foster.

Where exactly would that baby have come from?
From the usual place babies come from, nothing special.

Since Claire was a control for seeing if women who conceived off island could survive giving birth on island, taking her baby by C-section before she carried it full term would have left them with an incomplete test. Also if they were not going to allow their women to leave the island to conceive what good would it do to know that they could survive if they conceived off island?

However all this does point towards their using Kate as a test subject to see if women can survive the birth process when the conception occurs on Alcatraz island.

It also indicates that the Others, by withholding the information about the effect of conceiving on island from the Lostees, are willing to deliberately allow the Lostee women to die for the personal gain of the Others i.e. babies to steal. They do not care if Claire survived or if Kate or Sun survives as long as they get their answers to the problem of island births and/or babies to foster.


In any case, they're going to need to get their hands on the pregnant women in order to monitor the pregnancies and conduct tests. I guess they're planning to 'come back' at the end of the week once Juliet has all the info on who is pregnant - and take the pregnant ones. Possibly killing the rest of the Losties....?

In any case, they're going to need to get their hands on the pregnant women in order to monitor the pregnancies and conduct tests. I guess they're planning to 'come back' at the end of the week once Juliet has all the info on who is pregnant - and take the pregnant ones. Possibly killing the rest of the Losties....?
That sure is what it looks like. The Lostees and the Lostee mothers are disposables - The Others are only interested in using the Lostee women as either test subjects or as incubators with death being the end result either way.

We've learned that there's no cancer on the island [another question would be--was Ben ever sick?], major injuries can heal themselves in days, conception on island is a death sentence, and the sperm count is 5X normal on the island.

It seems as if the Island has some "cell acceleration" properties. Perhaps it came from the magnetism that had to be released every 108 minutes.

Did the "purple sky" change things?

Has it changed the above situations? Since Mikhail was healed, it seems doubtful. Unless we assume the fence was not active, and he had an implant, like Claire.

Sun told Jin she was pregnant before the Hatch exploded, but maybe the de-celleration occurred in time to save the baby and Sun.

According to lostpedia:
Day 60 - Saturday, November 20, 2004 -Sun learns she is pregnant
Day 67 - Saturday, November 27, 2004 - Hatch explodes

Juliet says that Sun conceived around day 35 ("53 days ago").

Anyway, this is what I am hoping for... Save the baby, save the world. :biggrin:


D/

Right - Juliette was lying to Claire. Claire was in no danger of dying from her pregnancy. Which is kind of funny - because why didn't Jack, Sun, or someone else call Juliette's bluff, i.e. say to her, "You said that women who conceived off-island were fine - so why did you mess with Claire in the first place?"

I suspect that may happen: Sun looked very unsure about Juliet's behavior at the end of the episode.
Of course, she would be foolish to confront Juliet out in the middle of nowhere - it would be better to wait
until they get back to the beach.

I suspect that may happen: Sun looked very unsure about Juliet's behavior at the end of the episode.
Of course, she would be foolish to confront Juliet out in the middle of nowhere - it would be better to wait
until they get back to the beach.

I wondered why she went with Juliet in the first place! More plausibly, she would have raised an alarm - and Sawyer and Sayid would have been digging another grave, next to Ethan's. Oops - end of Juliet story arc. So Sun had to do something really out of character and implausible. :frown:

I wondered why she went with Juliet in the first place! More plausibly, she would have raised an alarm - and Sawyer and Sayid would have been digging another grave, next to Ethan's. Oops - end of Juliet story arc. So Sun had to do something really out of character and implausible. :frown:

Not really, she clearly really wanted to know the facts about her pregnancy and Juliet recognised this and exploited it, as per her 'training' from Ben.