Sun concieved 53 days ago. If they are at day 90 on the island, she concieved 37 days after the crash.

But according to the timeline at lostcubit.net, Sun spoke English and Jin left her on day 33. And the raft launched on day 44. Sun and Jin were on the outs for those 11 days. They weren't speaking.

So how did Jin impregnate Sun??

And if not Jin, who did?

Good catch mrain! And thats a good question. It wasn't Michael or Sawyer either.

Excellent question. I don't buy all the theories that it's Michael's baby. THat's just ridiculous. And you could tell by Sun's reaction in tonight's episode that it MUST be Jin's.

More people need to read this thread. I'm really scratching my head here.

Problem solved. The rafties arrived with the tailies back to the beach on day 48. So it was a result of reunion sex.
Ignore this. Correction below.

Excellent question. I don't buy all the theories that it's Michael's baby. THat's just ridiculous. And you could tell by Sun's reaction in tonight's episode that it MUST be Jin's.

More people need to read this thread. I'm really scratching my head here.


mrain that is a very good point. :confused: Maybe the machine is just outdated and the DOC is off by a few days.

Haha, guys... guys. Determining a fetuses age by measuring its body length isn't an exact science. Everyone calm down, take a deep breath, and lets assume that Juliet was off by a week or two. I'm sure this wasn't biblical.

Yeah, I think this should slide. Seems pretty clear to me that the baby was a result of the reunion sex.

Not being an ultrasound expert, I can not tell - Is it possible the fetus was 100 days instead of 53.

If so, Juliet lied to Sun and Ben.

If not, it doesn't seem possible that Jin is the father. Someone else must be.

Juliet tells her it can be off by a week or two, and conception can really only be determined, as accurately as possible, by a woman knowing when she ovulated and when she had sex. Even that can be off by a couple or three days.

I think that the measurement of the fetus can slide so far as the timeline is concerned.

Problem solved. The rafties arrived with the tailies back to the beach on day 48. So it was a result of reunion sex.

You may be right. But..............

Juliet said the accuracy was within a day. Why did she say that if it could be off two weeks?

If it was reunion sex - the date should be 42 days. The point is: why say 53 days when it was 42 days. Why leave an obvious discrepancy? Why leave doubt? Everyone knows the reunion took place at 48 days.

Pretty big slack for TPTB. Unless it was intentional.

Perhaps part of the problem with concieving on the island is that the fetus grows at a more rapid pace than normal (as a result of the 'healing powers' or whatever). So it could be possible that a baby that was only 42/43 days old, looked like it was 53 days old?

I dunno. I'm reaching here.

Maybe more than you want to know.
http://www.americanpregnancy.org/duringpregnancy/calculatingdates.html

Gestational age, or the age of the baby, is calculated from the first day of the mother's last menstrual period. Since the exact date of conception is almost never known, the first day of the last menstrual period is used to measure how old the baby is.

Problem solved. The rafties arrived with the tailies back to the beach on day 48. So it was a result of reunion sex.

Apologies and correction:
I read that wrong. I was looking at day 53 instead of day 37. Day 37 did fall during the time before the raft set sail. Day 37 should fall within the "Numbers" Episode. Sun isn't even mentioned in the synopsis of the Numbers ep on Lostpedia. What was that girl up to???

Apologies and correction:
I read that wrong. I was looking at day 53 instead of day 37. Day 37 did fall during the time before the raft set sail. Day 37 should fall within the "Numbers" Episode. Sun isn't even mentioned in the synopsis of the Numbers ep on Lostpedia. What was that girl up to???


So the discrepancy remains - why did TPTB select 53 days as Juliet's estimate? If they wanted to indicate reunion sex wouldn't have been easier to select 42 days as the DOC?

They have thrown doubt on Juliet's story that this is Jin's baby.

I'm guessing that Sun really did conceive off the island, but Juliet is telling her she conceived on the island so that Sun will believe 1) that it's Jin's baby, and 2) that she needs Juliet's help in saving the baby and herself, therefore making it possible for alot more research to be done with Sun's own consent.

Folks- just because a couple is fighting, doesn't mean they aren't doing it. Deserted island, lonely, staring at attractive people all day- Jin and Sun probably did it all the time and we never knew about it...

If we have learned one thing so far this season that is a fact, it is this: Juliet is a lying, conniving woman who will do anything to make Ben think she's working with him in order to get off the island and see her sister and new nephew. If you believe anything she says you belong on the island with the gullibles.

We are all missing one big point with conception. Sperm can live inside a woman, in the protection of cervical fluid for 5 days post intercourse. If Sun spoke English and she and Jin started fighting on day 33 and Juliet thinks that DOC is day 37....well, that is most definately within the 5 days. Not to mention the fact that if the island causes men to have 5X more sperm, who's to say that their sperm couldn't live longer than the 5 days.

DP

If it WERE Jae's baby, wouldn't Sun look a lot more pregnant? I can't remember the timing of the flashback of her affair with him or how long it was before flight 815, but she would be at least 3 months pregnant if it were his, and doesn't a woman who is at least 3 months pregnant be showing her pregnancy physically? Sun's belly is still pretty flat.

I'm no expert on this by any means, so if someone else could shed some light, please do.

Folks- just because a couple is fighting, doesn't mean they aren't doing it. Deserted island, lonely, staring at attractive people all day- Jin and Sun probably did it all the time and we never knew about it...

So you think that after Sun spoke English in front of Jin, and everyone else, for the first time, that Jin said - never mind that..let's do it.

I don't think so.
100%
We are all missing one big point with conception. Sperm can live inside a woman, in the protection of cervical fluid for 5 days post intercourse. If Sun spoke English and she and Jin started fighting on day 33 and Juliet thinks that DOC is day 37....well, that is most definately within the 5 days. Not to mention the fact that if the island causes men to have 5X more sperm, who's to say that their sperm couldn't live longer than the 5 days.

DP


The fact remains - the writers have told us 53 days. Why? Why not 42 days? Why cast doubt? Darlton has stated that they work off a timeline. They knew what this meant from a timeline - and I don't think they were counting on 12 Million viewers knowing that wayward sperm would go swimming around for 5 days.

Juliet is a liar. Why are people accepting her story?

You can't tell the exact date a fetus was created. Measurements of the baby can give an approximation, but babies grow at different rates and are different sizes. I don't know of a single person that gave birth to more than one child that were the exact same weight and height (excepting multiples). Sun didn't seem to think twice that it was Jin's baby, so I don't know why anyone else would. And people do get it on when they are mad at each other.

...doesn't a woman who is at least 3 months pregnant be showing her pregnancy physically? Sun's belly is still pretty flat.

First-time mothers don't generally show until later in their pregnancy. I didn't start wearing maternity clothes until I was in my sixth or seventh month. It's possible that she'd still be that flat at 3 months preggers.

Something to remember, the xray Juliet was shown that she said was of a post menaposal (sp) womeon who was really in her last 20s or 30s (too lazy to look up). So would that suggest a rapid fetus growth/unatural aging as mentioned by others (not THE OTHERS). Just a possibility that could help clear things up or just throw more mud in the water.

You can't tell the exact date a fetus was created. Measurements of the baby can give an approximation, but babies grow at different rates and are different sizes. I don't know of a single person that gave birth to more than one child that were the exact same weight and height (excepting multiples). Sun didn't seem to think twice that it was Jin's baby, so I don't know why anyone else would. And people do get it on when they are mad at each other.

I am surprised by the Juliet defenders. She has spent the entire season lying.

According to Lostpedia, it is actually day 88 on the island (so 90 was off), which would put the DOC at day 35- 2 days after the big fight. Considering that you can get pregnant up to 5 days after having sex this is totally plausible. No need to panic! :)

I'm guessing that Sun really did conceive off the island, but Juliet is telling her she conceived on the island so that Sun will believe 1) that it's Jin's baby, and 2) that she needs Juliet's help in saving the baby and herself, therefore making it possible for alot more research to be done with Sun's own consent.


good idea. i like that theory

Or it may be part of the problem for the Mothers on the island
Rapid cell growth. Maybe the babies grow faster than they are supposed to. If cells repair themselves faster on the island, per Mikhail, some kind of acceleration of cell growth is happening, why wouldn't it affect the mothers and the fetus?

if i recall correctly, Juliet said something like "about 8 weeks" or so. She didnt seem to approximate so that allows for a give or take situation. Factor that in with all of the other ideas about how the timeline is rather flexible in this regard and the idea that Juliet might not be completely trustworthy as well as the suggestion that growth rate for a fetus varies and I think we can put this one to a rest. Good catch though...

Hmm, this is interesting. I'm thinking it's worth a question to Gregg. He may at least be willing to tell us if we are wasting our time with the discussion, or if we're on to something. I'll check for another similar post, and if there isn't one, add it myself.

Hmm, this is interesting. I'm thinking it's worth a question to Gregg. He may at least be willing to tell us if we are wasting our time with the discussion, or if we're on to something. I'll check for another similar post, and if there isn't one, add it myself.

Unfortunately, I don't think he answered any questions in the last month.

But its worth a try.

Or..............

Juliet was very compassionate with Sun last night....even going as far as asking her if she wanted to go through with the procedure. I started to think she was a good guy. But after reading this thread wouldn't the following make sense....

Juliet lied to Sun about conceiving on the island for 2 reasons:
- she got gratitude/trust from Sun....AND

- she tells Ben Sun's baby was conceived on island (lie) and then she 'cures' her with some bogus injection. Sun delivers healthy baby, she doesn't die....Juliet's research is done.....she can go home now!!!!

She actually seemed surprised Sun was preggers. I think she saw it as a way off the island.

First-time mothers don't generally show until later in their pregnancy. I didn't start wearing maternity clothes until I was in my sixth or seventh month. It's possible that she'd still be that flat at 3 months preggers.

Thanks for clearing that up! So the door is still slightly open for Juliet to be lying and for it to be Jae's baby I guess :undecide:

Or..............

Juliet was very compassionate with Sun last night....even going as far as asking her if she wanted to go through with the procedure. I started to think she was a good guy. But after reading this thread wouldn't the following make sense....

Juliet lied to Sun about conceiving on the island for 2 reasons:
- she got gratitude/trust from Sun....AND

- she tells Ben Sun's baby was conceived on island (lie) and then she 'cures' her with some bogus injection. Sun delivers healthy baby, she doesn't die....Juliet's research is done.....she can go home now!!!!

She actually seemed surprised Sun was preggers. I think she saw it as a way off the island.

This is brilliant - I think I will bookmark it to see if this is how it plays out. One of the best guesses I have seen on this board.

Or..............

Juliet was very compassionate with Sun last night....even going as far as asking her if she wanted to go through with the procedure. I started to think she was a good guy. But after reading this thread wouldn't the following make sense....

Juliet lied to Sun about conceiving on the island for 2 reasons:
- she got gratitude/trust from Sun....AND

- she tells Ben Sun's baby was conceived on island (lie) and then she 'cures' her with some bogus injection. Sun delivers healthy baby, she doesn't die....Juliet's research is done.....she can go home now!!!!

She actually seemed surprised Sun was preggers. I think she saw it as a way off the island.


Super smart. Great theory!

The fact remains - the writers have told us 53 days. Why? Why not 42 days? Why cast doubt? Darlton has stated that they work off a timeline. They knew what this meant from a timeline - and I don't think they were counting on 12 Million viewers knowing that wayward sperm would go swimming around for 5 days.

Juliet is a liar. Why are people accepting her story?

I wasn't trying or wanting to defend/accept Juliet's story. The more I think about it the more false I think it is. I just wanted to throw that piece of physiology out there for everyone since I am in the field of Maternal health.

Or..............

Juliet was very compassionate with Sun last night....even going as far as asking her if she wanted to go through with the procedure. I started to think she was a good guy. But after reading this thread wouldn't the following make sense....

Juliet lied to Sun about conceiving on the island for 2 reasons:
- she got gratitude/trust from Sun....AND

- she tells Ben Sun's baby was conceived on island (lie) and then she 'cures' her with some bogus injection. Sun delivers healthy baby, she doesn't die....Juliet's research is done.....she can go home now!!!!

She actually seemed surprised Sun was preggers. I think she saw it as a way off the island.

I really like this theory. good job thinking of it. The only think was, I wasn't too sure that Juliet was surprised to find out. It looked like she was trying to act like she was surprised but she actually knew. Plus, knowing that she then left the recording for Ben, I think they knew.

Thanks for clearing that up! So the door is still slightly open for Juliet to be lying and for it to be Jae's baby I guess :undecide:

I wanted to add to the possibility of not showing at 3 months. Every woman is completely different,and torso length plays a large role in how quickly a woman will show. If a woman has a long torso, that give more room to grow up without pushing out into the muscular wall. I also wanted to affirm that first time mothers show later due to the fact that the muscular wall has never been strectched like that before.

Now, I wanted to bring this up here, as I am kicking myself for not posting about it earlier with my first post.

If Jin is the father and the baby was conceived at our around day 37, then Sun should have menstrated at least once if not twice since the time she had sex with Jae. I know that not all women have 28 day cycles, and that stressful situations will cause irregular cycles, but stress normally causes shorter cycles not longer ones. Sudden weight loss and lack of food intake (which could be a possibility here) would cause skipped periods not longer cycles, which would mean that Sun would have skipped ovulation as well.

I think the issue I wanted to highlight is the fact that if Sun is SO concerned (as she appeared to be last night) that Jae might be the father and not Jin, then she would not have menstruated since before the flight.

One other thing that really surprised me too, 53 days pregnant...not one of the numbers....

Unfortunately, I don't think he answered any questions in the last month.

But its worth a try.
He has posted on the Leaggue a bunch of times, mostly to let us know that they are way busy with the finale right now, but that he'd be back to answer his questions as soon as that work is done. We may not get an answer right away, but I think it will happen.

Someone mentioned on a different thread about this topic that Juliet very well could have lied to Sun and Ben so it seems like she has finally solved the problem of pregnant women dying. I think it's a good possibility.

Obvious solution here is that Juliet is Lying.
She wants it to be Jin's baby and makes up a number that she thinks insures the Baby being Jin's, but she doesn't know that Jin and Sun was arguing back then, and that they did not have sex at all until the raft came back.

This information could be instrumental in revealing Juliet's deceptions, if Sun starts putting two and two together.

Ofcourse this also means that it is not Jin's baby.


-Exodus

Groan. Jin's the dad. I wish we didn't have to do this every week. Just my point of view.

My question is, where was Ethan on day 37? Was he already dead and gone or still 'collecting' blood samples in the middle of the night???

Great theory Gistenhose! :thumbsup: That makes a whole lot of sense to me.

If it WERE Jae's baby, wouldn't Sun look a lot more pregnant? I can't remember the timing of the flashback of her affair with him or how long it was before flight 815, but she would be at least 3 months pregnant if it were his, and doesn't a woman who is at least 3 months pregnant be showing her pregnancy physically? Sun's belly is still pretty flat.

I'm no expert on this by any means, so if someone else could shed some light, please do.

not always with the first child. It usually takes a while before you start to show with the first born
100%
Or..............

Juliet was very compassionate with Sun last night....even going as far as asking her if she wanted to go through with the procedure. I started to think she was a good guy. But after reading this thread wouldn't the following make sense....

Juliet lied to Sun about conceiving on the island for 2 reasons:
- she got gratitude/trust from Sun....AND

- she tells Ben Sun's baby was conceived on island (lie) and then she 'cures' her with some bogus injection. Sun delivers healthy baby, she doesn't die....Juliet's research is done.....she can go home now!!!!

She actually seemed surprised Sun was preggers. I think she saw it as a way off the island.

wow what a great theory! I like this one!

Or it may be part of the problem for the Mothers on the island
Rapid cell growth. Maybe the babies grow faster than they are supposed to. If cells repair themselves faster on the island, per Mikhail, some kind of acceleration of cell growth is happening, why wouldn't it affect the mothers and the fetus?
I think something like this is going on too, because of the time discrepencies.

I wanted to add to the possibility of not showing at 3 months. Every woman is completely different,and torso length plays a large role in how quickly a woman will show.
I have to second/third/whatever this. I remember all the talk about how unrealistic Claire looked when she was pregnant, and there was this woman at my work who looked exactly like her. If she had her back to you, you had no idea she was 8 months pregnant.

I like the idea that Juliet is setting this up to "save" Sun from the same fate and her research being done.

Could she also be protecting Sun from Ben. Would he still want Sun or the baby knowing neither will make it?

I think the issue I wanted to highlight is the fact that if Sun is SO concerned (as she appeared to be last night) that Jae might be the father and not Jin, then she would not have menstruated since before the flight.

This is a good point! It gives us some idea how soon before the crash Sun and Jae Lee had sex, and a better idea of when Jae Lee died. Average cycles (IIRC) can be anywhere from 21-40 days, but every woman is different, of course.

Unless my math is wrong, and we assume that Sun's never had a period on the island, and we also assume that, based on the "about 8 weeks" fetal age (which could be 7 to 9 weeks), Sun conceived between Day 25 and 39 on the island, then she probably had her last period sometime in the two weeks leading up to the crash. Since she was concerned Jae Lee may have been the father of her baby, the last time she had sex with him occurred in those couple weeks before the crash.

Do we have any evidence for or against this? Two weeks before the crash seems awfully close, but then again that would be about the time she began planning her escape.

Ok I like the idea of Juliet fooling Ben with the timeline...very good idea

As for the period thing...it's also possible for a woman to have bleeding (spotting) when she's pregnant. Menstruation is not necessarily a sign of ovulation - and I am not an expert but I think it's possible to get pregnant even if you skip a period. Put it this way, if you can get pregnant while on the pill then it's got to be possible to get pregnant even with a skipped period. I have skipped them a few times and not necessarily when under high stress either. So I don't think that really matters and whether she skipped or didn't she wouldn't know for sure without some sort of test. Like I said not an expert...any doctors here??

Groan. Jin's the dad. I wish we didn't have to do this every week. Just my point of view.


Why not? This is part of the fun of "Lost".

If there was nothing to discuss, none of us would be here expressing ideas.

Or..............

Juliet was very compassionate with Sun last night....even going as far as asking her if she wanted to go through with the procedure. I started to think she was a good guy. But after reading this thread wouldn't the following make sense....

Juliet lied to Sun about conceiving on the island for 2 reasons:
- she got gratitude/trust from Sun....AND

- she tells Ben Sun's baby was conceived on island (lie) and then she 'cures' her with some bogus injection. Sun delivers healthy baby, she doesn't die....Juliet's research is done.....she can go home now!!!!

She actually seemed surprised Sun was preggers. I think she saw it as a way off the island.

Yep. I'm with you all the way on this one. She has proven already that she is unable to save pregnant women from death and this is the one reason Ben won't let her leave. Jin believes he is the father, Sun now believes he is the father, and Juliet believes she is going home soon. This will only work out for Juliet if there are no other women pregnant who conceived on the island, because how could she cure Sun but no-one else ??? I think Juliet may come unstuck here !!

Or..............

Juliet was very compassionate with Sun last night....even going as far as asking her if she wanted to go through with the procedure. I started to think she was a good guy. But after reading this thread wouldn't the following make sense....

Juliet lied to Sun about conceiving on the island for 2 reasons:
- she got gratitude/trust from Sun....AND

- she tells Ben Sun's baby was conceived on island (lie) and then she 'cures' her with some bogus injection. Sun delivers healthy baby, she doesn't die....Juliet's research is done.....she can go home now!!!!

She actually seemed surprised Sun was preggers. I think she saw it as a way off the island.

Yay! Great theory. You get a gold star. :79:

I'm having trouble fining an exact time line, but Jin returns to camp with the tallies right after the other 48 days. Juliet said they have been on the island about 90 days. So jin has only been back around 42 days.... I don't remember how long he was gone after the raft left, but I'm pretty sure sun and jin were having problems before then anyway and probably wouldn't have been doing much fooling around. What do you think? Does my logic have holes in it i am missing?

I remember hearing that there's a site somewhere that has a day by day listing of events.Anybody have a link to that? We could then see exactly when Sun's DOC was.

Are you trying to say that Sawyer also banged Sun? 'Cuz that is the only logical possibility if Jin wasnt on the island. Oh wait, he was on the raft too. Nevermind...

I'm guessing that Sun really did conceive off the island, but Juliet is telling her she conceived on the island so that Sun will believe 1) that it's Jin's baby, and 2) that she needs Juliet's help in saving the baby and herself, therefore making it possible for alot more research to be done with Sun's own consent.
That would explain her "I hate you" comment to Ben -- perhaps he's making her do this.

Duude! It was Hurley. Sun likes her men with a sense of humor and a limited vocabulary.

*Seriously I don't keep up with the timelines well enough to have an intelligent opinion. I'll be interested in what comes up on this thread.

From the transcript at losthatch.com--

Kate: Can you believe we've been here for over 3 weeks? I was on my way to Bali. I travel a lot. I was looking forward to exploring the island. Somehow I ended up on a flight to LA, instead. Guess that falls under the category be careful what you wish for. You understood me. You did, didn't you. You just understood what I said? You speak English?

This was Hearts and Minds, which would have put them somewhere between 21 and 30 days on the island. Sun and Jin were also pretty cozy in this epi, but I think the D.O.C. would have had to be shortly before Hearts and Minds.

ETA: Ack! It would have to be shortly after Hearts and Minds.

I totally agree that Juliet lied to Sun. I think she also lied to Ben. There are any number of reasons why--to facilitate her escape, to prevent some plan Ben is up to, to FOIL some plan of Ben's--and I think we'll learn the reason why later. If those of us who think this turn out to be wrong, however, it does provide a pretty dramatic way to kill off the next main character, assuming that TPTB plan to do so.

I have to say, I hope the entire focus of Lost doesn't deteriorate into one long Ob-Gyn story! To focus on pregnancies and reproductive technology to the exclusion of all else will get pretty monotonous....

i found this timeline
http://lost.cubit.net/timeline.php
...so 90 - 53 = 37
i don't know...jin was there but Sun and him were possibly separate...
apparently day 33: "Jin leaves Sun after feeling betrayed "
and day 44:"The raft launches with Michael, Walt, Jin and Sawyer on board "
Wasn't it day 44 that Jin and Sun reconcile?

:confused:

Why not? This is part of the fun of "Lost".

If there was nothing to discuss, none of us would be here expressing ideas.

There is plenty to discuss. I just think this one is a dead end. Jin is the dad.

Remember that the episode, "The Other 48 Days" showed from when the tailies crashed up until a day or two before they reunited with the fusies. So it's only been about 40 days since they were reunited (90-50=40). The question is, how long were they on the raft? I believe I remember Michael saying the raft was blown up on their first night out to sea, so if that is the case, Jin and Sun could have conceived before Jin sailed on the raft--say on Day 37 after the crash, which would have been 53 days ago. Sun and Jin were having problems before Jin left though (remember in ". . . and Found" Sun tells Kate that she didn't even get a chance to say goodbye to Jin). My bet is that the baby is Michael's, and it's going to be obvious once she gives birth, if you know what I mean.

The time discrepancy that I am curious about is why did Juliet say that they've been on the island 90 days? According to lostpedia (http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Timeline:December_2004) they've only been on the island 88 days. We know that Juliet knows the exact amount of time from a conversation that she had with Jack where she knew how long she had been on the island to the day after 3 years. If we can assume that she knows the correct number of days, why round up?

Also, she tells Sun that she's been pregnant for 8 weeks, not about 8 weeks (8 weeks * 7 days = 56 days). She then says it was 53 days? I realize that these dates cannot be exact in real life, but the language Juliet uses is exact.

Maybe it's just nitpicking, but it seems like there have been several small (1-2 day) time discrepancy issues lately.

FYI, according to lostpedia (http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Timeline:December_2004) they have only been on the island 88 days, not 90.

My bet is that the baby is Michael's, and it's going to be obvious once she gives birth, if you know what I mean.

I think Sun would remember having had sex with Michael. Sun mentioned only one previous affair to Juliet, and she was upset because she believed Jin's low sperm count removed any hope that Jin was the father. She didn't say, oh, by the way, there is one other guy who might be the father. Jin's sperm count has been explained, and now we know the D.O.C. I know Sun plays her cards close to the vest, but she doesn't seem at all concerned that it might be Micheal's kid. To me, this implies they never did sleep together.

Here's lostpedia..
http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Timeline


D/

Heh...okay. For now I'm going with Day 36 on lostpedia. I don't have a logical reason, just that it is very elegant. The D.O.C. is a give or take a 24 hour period. That day has a lot of motherhood issues attached. It's Claire's birthday. Locke built Claire a cradle. Danielle, an island mother, related her tale to Hurley. Lastly, it connects back to The Glass Ballerina. Sounds like a good D.O.C. to me.:biggrin:

ETA: Numbers was the 18th episode of the first season, and D.O.C., which is all about numbers, is the 18th episode of this season. More elegance.

You know, first thing I thought when Juliet said "we can figure out the DOC" was that TPTB should not give an exact number, because there seems to be a whole legion on this site dedicated to tearing this show apart from the inside out...

Juliet said 90 days, kinda like people who say "oh 3 months" when it was say only 80 days... its just an estimate, and speaking of about 3 months, wasn't that when the sickness set in for Danielles' crew???? Maybe they were all pregnant women?

If it were Jae's it would be bigger (she'd show more)
Sun said it MUST be Jins (I'm sure Sun knows who she slept with, and so far no evidence of artificial insemination by the Others, so not that)

Maybe there is a time discrepancy between island and mainland, such that it was 53 days mainland time but island time it wasnt? or maybe we a reading mainland time into this show when its faster than that (note the night day discrepancies that have been pointed out over time)

I think that we should take this as it is, Sun is much more useful if she conceived on island, gives Juliet 2 months to maybe figure out a cure.. if there is one.

Don't know if this will help or just muddy the waters more but, when Juliet is making her tape for Ben she says it is "6 am saturday morning" and 88 days from the crash is saturday December 18. I think Juliet's "90 days" may have been a generalisation.

http://lost.cubit.net/timeline.php
http://tviv.org/Lost/Timeline
http://lostwiki.abc.com/page/Timeline

Choice of Timelines

I don't think Juliet was telling the truth on the age... because they made a point for Jack to ask about morning sickness, and Sun said she doesn't have it any more.... TYPICALLY morning sickness is present from weeks 6 to 13. If she had morning sickness and now doesn't, that is a possible concern, unless she's out of the first trimester. I'm thinking she got pregnant before the crash but Juliet for some sick twisted reason wants her to think she's going to die - probably so she or Ben can manipulate her....

I agree with the above poster. In the last PODCAST TPTB said something about "we'll find out if its Jin's, Jae Lis, or (jokingly) a mystery person" I think people need to give TPTB more credit. Maybe they knew the timeline error of Juliet's statement, and knew it would result in this kind of backlash and conspiracy theories. Juliet lied (IMHO). She needs a "control" to her test subject (Kate). She told Sun what she wanted to hear... that it was Jin's.

Or..............

Juliet was very compassionate with Sun last night....even going as far as asking her if she wanted to go through with the procedure. I started to think she was a good guy. But after reading this thread wouldn't the following make sense....

Juliet lied to Sun about conceiving on the island for 2 reasons:
- she got gratitude/trust from Sun....AND

- she tells Ben Sun's baby was conceived on island (lie) and then she 'cures' her with some bogus injection. Sun delivers healthy baby, she doesn't die....Juliet's research is done.....she can go home now!!!!

She actually seemed surprised Sun was preggers. I think she saw it as a way off the island.

I had exactly the same theory with a little twist...

Considering the Others' "eye for an eye" policy, Juliet could be paying back a "debt" for her stay of execution by doing this particular "job" for Ben... ("debt collection" being a prominent theme in Sun's flashback)

Her mission included ascertaining when Sun's baby was conceived, because if it was conceived off island then Sun would live. Now the twist...if this was the case, Ben himself would order her death (eye for an eye, for killing Coleen!).. but if baby was conceived on island, Sun is dead anyway, and Juliet benefits from use of her in research as she will now be the "only one who could possibly "save" Sun.

Juliet knows for certain that the baby was conceived off island, and that Sun will live, but she hates Ben for forcing her, in this way, to pay back her debt in order to get off the island, so she lies to both Sun and Ben!!

By telling Sun the baby is Jin's, she has given Sun a "reason" to want to stay alive (maybe she would've considered suicide if it turned out to be Jae's??) and has also made herself invaluable to Sun.

She can now, as you pointed out, appear to have "cured" Sun, much the same way as she appeared to have "cured" Claire. Ben will have no more need for her, her debt is paid, and she will be allowed to leave the island, providing she bottles her cure for them, so to speak, first.

It is also a bit of insurance for Juliet because if Ben doesn't allow her to leave, she will have a safe place now amongst the duped (but grateful nonetheless) Losties.

Juliet may have found a way out of her own personal Catch 22???

Of course, Jin may learn some day that the baby isn't really his, but then Sun Does still have a debt to pay to Jin, so.....

On a quirky note... DOC backwards is COD "Collection Of Debt"????

Groan. Jin's the dad. I wish we didn't have to do this every week. Just my point of view.Dear god yes! :drowsy:
Jin is the dad.
If he isn't, then this episode was just a huge waste of time.
Why not? This is part of the fun of "Lost".
If there was nothing to discuss, none of us would be here expressing ideas.
Sure, it can be fun, but after a while it can wear a person down. Every word uttered by Juliet? Think the opposite, because it must be a lie. Think someone is acting out of character? Must be their "bad twin". Or better yet, their setting up a Long Con. Do two actors sort of look the same? Their characters must be related because in this show, there are no coincidences. As a huge fan of the show I read most of these ideas, but it seems as if the habit of second-guessing every second of this show is turning the mythology into a huge messy sludge. The show runners have admitted to errors in the time line in previous podcasts, and despite this current possible discrepancy, I do believe that this is an episode where we’ve been given clear-cut answer to a long running mystery.

Dear god yes! :drowsy:
Jin is the dad.
If he isn't, then this episode was just a huge waste of time.

Sure, it can be fun, but after a while it can wear a person down. Every word uttered by Juliet? Think the opposite, because it must be a lie. Think someone is acting out of character? Must be their "bad twin". Or better yet, their setting up a Long Con. Do two actors sort of look the same? Their characters must be related because in this show, there are no coincidences. As a huge fan of the show I read most of these ideas, but it seems as if the habit of second-guessing every second of this show is turning the mythology into a huge messy sludge. The show runners have admitted to errors in the time line in previous podcasts, and despite this current possible discrepancy, I do believe that this is an episode where we’ve been given clear-cut answer to a long running mystery.

I'm sorry if you are worn down. Perhaps you need a timeout from post reading, and just enjoy the show.

And as far as cons go - this show is constructed around people conning other people - continuously. That is one of the beauties of the show. The various onion layers of conning that has and continues to go on.

My point has been - if TPTB wanted to provide a clear-cut, un-muddied revelation that Jin was the father, they should have chosen 42 days as the DOC (Reunion sex). They did not. Maybe they didn't because Sun took the pregnancy test at 58 days - and a 16 day gap would have been unrealistic. Considering swimming sperm and whatnot.

Maybe they have tried to shoehorn this revelation - Jin is the father - into the existing events, and it isn't a great fit.

Or, maybe, just maybe, Jin is not the father - and Juliet is using this situation to her advantage to get off the island once and for all. I'm betting on the latter. But I have been wrong many times before.

i'm generally in the "everything juliet says is a lie" camp, and i initially thought she was lying to sun about the DOC, but then why would she lie to ben about it too? i appreciate the theory that she is doing it to trick ben into thinking she has cured the island's fertility problem, but i don't buy that. right after she tells ben that sun conceived on the island, she tell him she hates him. if she had a master plan to trick ben, she would feel good about herself after telling this lie, but instead, she felt very bad about what she is doing (and intends to do) and vented that hostility at ben. this doesn't seem consistent with her pulling a big scheme on ben.
i also don't think ben is that stupid. he's not going to release juliet the minute sun gives birth, and by that time ben would probably know that the DOC was wrong, as the DOB would be off several weeks. just doesn't make sense to me.
by the way, although babies sizes vary widely after 5 months of development, they do not vary much during the first trimester. ultrasound measurements are accurate within days to determine fetal age, because it's not done based on the overall size of the whole baby, but on a measurement of the skull. if juliet was telling sun the truth about the DOC (i believe she was), then the baby was conceived on the island for sure. and i don't think it's an accident that TPTB gave us a date of conception we can clearly mark with a time that jin and sun were on the outs. i don't believe sun was with anyone else, but i believe she may have been impregnated some other way. remember juliet's magic serum?

Don't know if this will help or just muddy the waters more but, when Juliet is making her tape for Ben she says it is "6 am saturday morning" and 88 days from the crash is saturday December 18. I think Juliet's "90 days" may have been a generalisation.

Yeah i agree!
100%
So i was thinking about this whole getting off the island business... and I still do love that theory but how is she going to get off the island? the sub has been "blown up" as far as the others know (if this is true still has yet to be determined) so how does she expect ben to get her off the island? just a thought...

I was laying in bed last night wondering about this myself. I almost got up again, just to check the timeline. But then I decided that would be obsessive...

Anyway, Juliet DID make a point to explain the accuracy of the ultrasound would be within a day, give or take, and telling Sun it was 53 days ago is a pretty precise number. I believe the writers on this show are a lot more careful about details like this than maybe they have been in the past. They have to know the discrepancy would be caught.

The question is, what does it mean? I agree that Juliet is probably lying in order to "save" Sun for her own sake. Once Sun does the math, she will realize Juliet is lying.

Even if the baby was conceived off the island and Sun has about 2 more months to live, that's still two more seasons, right? Season 1 was 44 days, but season 2 was only 21. Season 3 looks like it will be less than 30.

You can't tell the exact date a fetus was created. Measurements of the baby can give an approximation, but babies grow at different rates and are different sizes. I don't know of a single person that gave birth to more than one child that were the exact same weight and height (excepting multiples). Sun didn't seem to think twice that it was Jin's baby, so I don't know why anyone else would. And people do get it on when they are mad at each other.

Actually size differences occur later in pregnancy. In early pregnancy, the growth rate is remarkably similar from fetus to fetus. Size variation increases over time.

this is my first post!! but I hadta put my 2 cents in here since NO ONE even paying attention to the post on page 2 thats says gestational age is calculated from the last menstral period, I followed this from a post to Gregg Nations and I seriously hope he answers it and puts this to rest... oh and I want to mention LOSTPEDIA can be EDITED by ANYONE so someone who didn't know what they were talkin about edited that into the timeline thats for sure!!!

this is how i figured it out,

53 days pregnant, would be 7 weeks 5 days (gestational age) what is gestational age you ask?? Gestational age is the number of weeks and days a fetus has developed since the beginning of the pregnancy, or gestation. A pregnancy is formally considered as beginning on the first day of the mother's last menstrual period (LMP). so the baby was actually concieved aprox. 5 weeks 5 days ago, give or take a day or two.... so 5 weeks 5 days would be 40 days go back 40 days in the lost timeline and we get day 48(thats uses the 88 days would be day 50 is you use 90 days but sprem can survive for up to 5 days), on day 48 Jin returns to the beach and we see Jin with a big smile on his face when Jin and Sun come out of their tent, so this all addeds up perfectly!! and here's alittle note on ultrasounds before anyone says the ultrasound doesn't determine gestational age...
Fetal Ultrasounds
1st-trimester fetal ultrasound is done to:
Determine how a pregnancy is progressing.
Determine if the pregnancy contains more than 1 fetus.
Estimate the age of the fetus (gestational age).
Estimate the risk of a chromosome defect, such as Down syndrome.
Check for birth defects that affect the brain or spinal cord.
so the baby is JINS!!

to put it most simply day 35 was Sun's LMP

Maybe more than you want to know.
http://www.americanpregnancy.org/duringpregnancy/calculatingdates.html

Gestational age, or the age of the baby, is calculated from the first day of the mother's last menstrual period. Since the exact date of conception is almost never known, the first day of the last menstrual period is used to measure how old the baby is.

this is my first post!! but I hadta put my 2 cents in here since NO ONE even paying attention to the post on page 2 thats says gestational age is calculated from the last menstral period, I followed this from a post to Gregg Nations and I seriously hope he answers it and puts this to rest... oh and I want to mention LOSTPEDIA can be EDITED by ANYONE so someone who didn't know what they were talkin about edited that into the timeline thats for sure!!!

this is how i figured it out,

53 days pregnant, would be 7 weeks 5 days (gestational age) what is gestational age you ask?? Gestational age is the number of weeks and days a fetus has developed since the beginning of the pregnancy, or gestation. A pregnancy is formally considered as beginning on the first day of the mother's last menstrual period (LMP). so the baby was actually concieved aprox. 5 weeks 5 days ago, give or take a day or two.... so 5 weeks 5 days would be 40 days go back 40 days in the lost timeline and we get day 48(thats uses the 88 days would be day 50 is you use 90 days but sprem can survive for up to 5 days), on day 48 Jin returns to the beach and we see Jin with a big smile on his face when Jin and Sun come out of their tent, so this all addeds up perfectly!! and here's alittle note on ultrasounds before anyone says the ultrasound doesn't determine gestational age...
Fetal Ultrasounds
1st-trimester fetal ultrasound is done to:
Determine how a pregnancy is progressing.
Determine if the pregnancy contains more than 1 fetus.
Estimate the age of the fetus (gestational age).
Estimate the risk of a chromosome defect, such as Down syndrome.
Check for birth defects that affect the brain or spinal cord.
so the baby is JINS!!

to put it most simply day 35 was Sun's LMP


Thank you Cremepop for reading my post.

NP Sam, I was bored and I actually read all 8 pages and I can't believe no one even read what you posted they just kept going on and on about how it wasn't Jin when the obvious was right in their face... I so hope Gregg answers this question!!
100%
Well we don't hafta wait for Gregg to answer the question, the April 30th podcast answers it!!!

Sun concieved 53 days ago. If they are at day 90 on the island, she concieved 37 days after the crash.

But according to the timeline at lostcubit.net, Sun spoke English and Jin left her on day 33. And the raft launched on day 44. Sun and Jin were on the outs for those 11 days. They weren't speaking.

So how did Jin impregnate Sun??

And if not Jin, who did?

I haven't read through all the responses in the thread, so I apologize if someone has already raised this possibility...

Sun was much too relieved and convinced Jin was the father...she hasn't slept with anyone but her husband on the island. Thus, I posit that Juliet (in cahoots with Jack) is lying (for the greater good) in order to deceive Ben...if a successful pregnancy survives past the 1st trimester on the island, Ben will have to follow through with his promise to allow Juliet to leave the island...this could be the plan Jack has to find a way off the island for all.

Well we don't hafta wait for Gregg to answer the question, the April 30th podcast answers it!!!
Gregg answered me, as I knew he would! (He answered 160 questions this weekend.)

Hello, oh keeper of the Bibles. Another great episode last night, thanks to all involved!

Some people here (http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=77413)are speculating that there was a timeline discrepancy when Juliet told Sun she'd conceived 53 days ago. Apparently, that would fall in the window of when Jin had found out Sun spoke English, and was quite pissed off at her.

I'm wondering if this is something we should be worried about, or if Juliet's estimate was just that, an estimate left with wiggle room. Thanks Gregg!

As Official Keeper of All Annoying Facts, I so knew this question would come up. I asked them when they wanted Sun and Jin to have had their fun in the sun, then I worked backwards and counted the days. Juliet does say that the D.O.C. could be a day or two off, but for the most part our timeline is okay.