Because if not - Juliet is lying to Sun and Ben.

I believe Juliet is lying. In addition, I don't believe Juliet was showing Sun her own baby!

ok, I have dvr, I watched it twice. Juliet says " You crashed here 90 days ago, the baby was concieved about 8 weeks ago, so (about? I can't tell what she says) 53 days . She definatly said 53 days. You have to remember no ultrasound is excatly to the day, I think the point is it's Jins for sure.

I was watching with my Grandma, who used to be a nurse. This is what she pointed out
1) For sure a strong heartbeat, Sun should be showing FOR SURE
2) At 8 weeks the image shouldn't have been as big as it was.

I attributed it to the fact that this is t.v. and such. But that's what she had to say.

I was watching with my Grandma, who used to be a nurse. This is what she pointed out
1) For sure a strong heartbeat, Sun should be showing FOR SURE
2) At 8 weeks the image shouldn't have been as big as it was.

I attributed it to the fact that this is t.v. and such. But that's what she had to say.

Yep, and as was previously stated, ultrasounds are a guesstimate. They are not an exact science.

I thought right away that Juliet was lying. I'm not sure why; I just had a feeling, even after she told Ben the same as she told Sun. I just can't figure her out.

I'm a former ER tech...

Two things stuck out:

1. That was a VERY strong heartbeat and a very large image for Sun to be at only 50 days or so...

2. Juliet has shown she is untrustworthy. How do we know IT WAS SUN'S BABY ON THE MONITOR?
Ultrasound machines are capable of recording images and storing them...I'm thinking Juliet was playing another woman's ultrasound images!

i feel like juliet is similar to darth vader...u see those good glimpses in her but u know she is just completely untrustworthy

heres hoping jack is her luke skywalker lol

FWIW, I often do doppler on canine feti and their heart rates are usually close to 200 beats per minute. I think the sound from this episode had the fetal HR at about 120 BPM. Does anyone know what a normal human fetal HR should be? The volume does not indicate strength but merely the distance between the probe and the fetus. Also, the HR will vary depending on whether or not the fetus evaluated is sleeping or stressed. So, how does Juliet know Sun's baby has a strong heart?

The 53 days was Juliet's calculation as to teh Date of Conception.

FWIW, I often do doppler on canine feti and their heart rates are usually close to 200 beats per minute. I think the sound from this episode had the fetal HR at about 120 BPM. Does anyone know what a normal human fetal HR should be?


Yep, 120BPM is about normal for a non-stressed fetus. Remember that mammal heartbeats are faster in proportion to the smallness of the animal. I've seen plenty of fetal ultrasounds.

I posted a thread about this but I'll say it here because so many are saying the ultrasound was odd. If Juliet was not lying about the sperm count being 5 times the normal sperm count, What about the sperm itself? Could this be Super Sperm? that would produce Super Children? and this is why Ben doesn't want any of the pregnant women leaving the island to give birth? Could Sun give birth to a four toed child if she concieved on the island? Now I am begining to think Ben was never born on the island but maybe Walt was? Walt was Special.

I believe Juliet is lying. In addition, I don't believe Juliet was showing Sun her own baby!

I thought the same thing! I remember an episode of the X-Files where Scully believes they are showing her a tape of another person's ultrasound and passing it off as hers. This is what I was thinking.

I'm wondering if Juliet told Sun that the baby is 53 days old when the baby was actually conceived off the island. Then they'll conduct experiments on her and say there just trying to save her life.


Kaliberknl, a normal human fetal heartrate range is 120-160.

I doubt she was lying to Sun since she told Ben on the tape recorder the same info.

I thought right away that Juliet was lying. I'm not sure why; I just had a feeling, even after she told Ben the same as she told Sun. I just can't figure her out.

I believe this baby is not jin's and was conceived off island. Juliet willl have ben believe the opposite so that when Sun lives, her "research" will appear to have been successful. This may win her a ticket home.

I posted a thread about this but I'll say it here because so many are saying the ultrasound was odd. If Juliet was not lying about the sperm count being 5 times the normal sperm count, What about the sperm itself? Could this be Super Sperm?
I would guess that men on the island have a high sperm count because the sperm can be produced much quicker, just like the island can heal faster.

At 8 weeks the image shouldn't have been as big as it was.
I agree. The fetus image on the screen was bigger than it should have been for being 53 days old. I wouldn't read too much into that though - I figured it was just for tv since there's really nothing much for the layperson to see at 53 days! It's difficult, even for a professional, to properly measure and "virtually examine" a 53-day-old fetus, especially with an external ultrasound.

FWIW, I often do doppler on canine feti and their heart rates are usually close to 200 beats per minute. I think the sound from this episode had the fetal HR at about 120 BPM. Does anyone know what a normal human fetal HR should be?
120-130 bpm is on the lower end for human babies and 170-180 falls near the upper limit.

I'm wondering if Juliet told Sun that the baby is 53 days old when the baby was actually conceived off the island. Then they'll conduct experiments on her and say there just trying to save her life.
Even though the size of the fetus on the monitor hinted that the baby was older than Juliet said, in real life Sun would probably have been showing a bit if she were 12 to 13 weeks. At the very least her breasts would be noticeably bigger and her waist would have expanded to where she couldn't button her jeans. She certainly wouldn't have had such a lovely flat stomach if she was entering her second trimester (which is how far along she would have to be to have gotten pregnant off-island).

Okay I'm not an expert at all here but I AM the oldest of 10 kids so I've been able to consciously notice my mom in probably five or six different pregnancies (besides various friends' moms and now friends of my own) and I thought it seemed kind of fishy that Sun hadn't started showing yet....her stomach is still perfectly flat. Like what the HECK! And right after Juliet tells her she shouldn't get too worried if they can't find a heartbeat the baby is totally visible on the ultrasound (I usually have trouble seeing them very early on in those pics) and she picks up the heartbeat right away. I'm willing to let these things pass though because I understand TPTB just can't do EVERYTHING right.... ;) Okay I really do think all of this is a little much, they could have at least given Sun a pooch!

Even though the size of the fetus on the monitor hinted that the baby was older than Juliet said, in real life Sun would probably have been showing a bit if she were 12 to 13 weeks. At the very least her breasts would be noticeably bigger and her waist would have expanded to where she couldn't button her jeans. She certainly wouldn't have had such a lovely flat stomach if she was entering her second trimester (which is how far along she would have to be to have gotten pregnant off-island).


I just wanted to say that I was super skinny pre-pregnancy and I fit just fine in my regular clothing until I was about 18 weeks along. My stomach stayed flat and I didn't look pregnant at all. And, not all women's breast grow a huge amount early on.

There are ultrasounds that show the image magnified/zoomed in, given that we know the Others have some advanced tech, it wouldn't be unreasonable to think that they would have access to something like that. Knowing that Juliet has been dealing with early fertility issues, it would make huge amounts of sense for her to need something with high magnification for accuracy.

Also, at 53-57 days, Sun's baby would still be in the embryonic period, so it would be much easier to tell the gestational age within a few days, then if it was any later in the fetal period.

The baby is about 3cm long. Sun shouldn't be showing much at all, since she's just about to enter her 9th week gestation.

Edit: Also, the large blob we were seeing on the screen likely *wasn't* the whole baby, it was probably the uterus. Without freeze framing, and comparing to a 'real' ultrasound, I wouldn't be able to say for sure.

And now I feel completely nerdy for getting to haul out fetal development knowledge on a LOST forum.

I believe this baby is not jin's and was conceived off island. Juliet willl have ben believe the opposite so that when Sun lives, her "research" will appear to have been successful. This may win her a ticket home.

Im totally with you on that applecrush!

I just wanted to say that I was super skinny pre-pregnancy and I fit just fine in my regular clothing until I was about 18 weeks along. My stomach stayed flat and I didn't look pregnant at all. And, not all women's breast grow a huge amount early on.

I was very thin (actually underweight) also and didn't have any pooch to speak of until 16-18 weeks as well. However, my waist did expand (which is basically one of the first noticeable physical changes) to where I couldn't button my jeans. Everything else fit the same and I had no stomach at all but my waist was thicker.

The breasts, of course, start swelling up almost immediately but might not be noticeable to others if you already have a nice rack to begin with! :biggrin: On Sun, being small breasted, I would expect to see more of a change if she actually got pregnant off-island and was 12 to 13 weeks.

But consider the fact also that this is TELEVISION and I can't count the number of soap operas I've seen where a character is 9 months pregnant with a cute little ball belly and absolutely no other physical signs of pregnancy. Their breasts are still small and perky, butt is tiny, no varicose veins, no swollen feet, no little extra pudge in the face, no trouble or effort getting up from a chair, no heartburn, and they could walk a tightrope they walk so straight - none of that 9 month waddle for a soap opera diva! ;)

So I'm willing to overlook those little issues since Sun is not pregnant in real life and would hardly be expected to contort her body in order to mimic actual pregnancy changes.

I believe this baby is not jin's and was conceived off island. Juliet willl have ben believe the opposite so that when Sun lives, her "research" will appear to have been successful. This may win her a ticket home.


My husband said the same thing. I think he has trust issues with Juliet.

I believe this baby is not jin's and was conceived off island. Juliet willl have ben believe the opposite so that when Sun lives, her "research" will appear to have been successful. This may win her a ticket home.

Good theory. That is Juliet's motivation, and she will lie to anyone to get off the island.

I believe this baby is not jin's and was conceived off island. Juliet willl have ben believe the opposite so that when Sun lives, her "research" will appear to have been successful. This may win her a ticket home.
Applecrush, that is a really good, smart point. Last night I was trying to figure out a reason for Juliet to be lying (because I feel like it's safe to assume that she always is), and this seems like it.

Haha not that I WANTED the baby to be Jae's but it will be fun to laugh in my sister's face if this is true because she swore all along it was Jin's and was having much fun with her I-told-you-so's after the eppy that night because I had refused to take either side. She was like "How COULD you not believe it was Jin's!!" HAHAHAHA wouldn't that be fun...