Discuss the good and bad about the episode. If you totally loved the episode or totally didn't love the episode and do not wish to discuss the pros and cons, please visit the Loved it or Didn't Love it threads.

I'm so confused after this finale. And we have to wait til freaking 2008 now? Somebody hold me :)

I'm a neutral. I didn't love the epi, but I didn't hate it either. And I'm with you, AnalogKid--my first words at the end were, "I'm so confused." There's just so much to mull over from this episode that I can't say "Love it" or "Hate it". I'm also wondering if Seasons 3-6 will have flash-forwards rather than flashbacks. ;)

The Pretty Good:

Sayid
Jin
Hurley
Charlie
Sawyer
Killing LOTS of Others
Seeing Penny
Danielle!!! Loved when she knocked Ben out so nonchalantly; glad she got to meet Alex FINALLY.

The Not So Cool:

Locke... TOQ wasted yet again. Anti-climactic and bleh. Bye bye Once Intriguing Character.
Seeing Walt... anyone care at this point? Does it make any sense this time around?
Naomi dying for... apparently no reason?


The WTF?

In the apparent future, why isn't Kate in PRISON?
Why is Christian Shepherd "alive"? (I know, I know, Jack was just drunk and delusional, right? Weak...)
Why didn't Charlie close the door from THE OTHER SIDE!?!?!?!?! OMG, WTF, WHY? I'm not even a Charlie fan... I've been waiting for him to die for a while now, but WTF?! What??????

I'm a neutral too...there were fantastic bits in this eppy but there was some very ordinary bits too. I dont like the flash forwards!! I dont want them to go off island with the flashes or to get off and live in the real world again. I think it'll just end up like every other show when they get rescued. There are too many main characters to follow so we wont all be satisfied each week.

I didnt hate the eppy...I just feel flat!! I was so excited before it started. I wanted an end that I would think about for at least a few months, but I think I will be over thinking about it after work tomorrow.

Most of the new things we learnt are hard to discuss or even have opinions about...who's funeral, who Kate was with, is Christian alive, is (or was) Naomi a spy...stuff like that we dont really have any clues to an answer.

I'm going to watch it again now and see if I can love it...LOL

ooh...yay me...50 posts

I loved 95% of the episode until the reveal that this was Jack's future. How can I root for the Losties now that I know all of Jacks plans will lead to him becoming a suicidal depressed delusional whack job who's hopped up on hillbilly heroin.


Yay! I'm so excited that the future of the main character is to completely fall apart.... that was the part that moved me from 100% awesome to.... 50%

There were good things and ideas in the finale but i'm really frustrated about some things... this season what i found the best was the others...i tried to understand their actions...is Richard on Ben's side or not? On wich side is Juliet? Was the trial a con? Did juliet really want to kill Ben? Did Ben really want to kill JUliet... and my conclusion was that it makes a lot more sense if it was part of a con to make Jack trust Juliet...(i still think and hope it was part of the plan i would be too disapointed otherwise) and it appears that jack defended Juliet since day one for no other reason than he liked her? he had confidence in her? And he seemed to be right? So disappointed by that! I thought he had something in mind, he was bluffing, and i thought she was bluffing too. So it was all first degree???? And why he was weird with Kate and didn't talk about this week on the barracks? and he really has no other plan than blow them to hell? And he let Ben "killed" Sayid, Bernard and Jin? I don't understand Jack anymore! And Sawyer who killed Tom because he didn't trust him?

Fast forward is a great idea but it's not enough!
Ooh and i'm sad for Charlie i loved him...i would have prefered if they had killed Bernard!
The season 2 finale was a lot better to me.
The real good new for me he's that Ben is still alive! I hope we'll see him a lot in season 4 and not only as a punching bag!
And i hope JUliet is more than "one of us" because i'm not interested by Juliet as being just there to be jack's new love interest!
And i hope Ben is right about not trusting Naomi...otherwise it will be another disapointment...

I loved 95% of the episode until the reveal that this was Jack's future. How can I root for the Losties now that I know all of Jacks plans will lead to him becoming a suicidal depressed delusional whack job who's hopped up on hillbilly heroin.


Yay! I'm so excited that the future of the main character is to completely fall apart.... that was the part that moved me from 100% awesome to.... 50%
Even though I like the idea of the flash forwards (though maybe not so SOON?!?!?!), I have to agree with this a little bit.

It seems like a weird place to go to. A little while ago, I said that it would be cool to have flash forwards during the last few episodes of the SERIES, so to me, it would just revolve around the survivors getting re-acclimated to their lives on the mainland, whether together or separately. I didn't expect Jack to fall off the wagon so dramatically, but I guess I shouldn't be surprised -- though it is sad to think about, and a bit disappointing.

I also don't know how it will work if we keep moving further and further into the future... how will that diminish what we are seeing in the "present"? I originally wanted flash forwards, but I was thinking more along the lines of one each to wrap up storylines. This looks to be toeing the thin line between brilliance and disaster...

I loved 95% of the episode until the reveal that this was Jack's future. How can I root for the Losties now that I know all of Jacks plans will lead to him becoming a suicidal depressed delusional whack job who's hopped up on hillbilly heroin.



Yay! I'm so excited that the future of the main character is to completely fall apart.... that was the part that moved me from 100% awesome to.... 50%



IMO - THAT was just ONE POSSIBLE future. I believe that in the remaining eppys. we will definitely see them back on the island. Jack is going to get Kate back there and he will do something to change this bleak future they have now. Jack "fixes things" and I think the remaining eppys. are going to focus on how Jack fixes (changes) everything - :biggrin:


There is no way they would show us the END of the show, especially right now - and especially if that is what becomes of the HERO and his true love. I believe that Jack will fix everything somehow.


DL

IMO - THAT was just ONE POSSIBLE future. I believe that in the remaining eppys. we will definitely see them back on the island. Jack is going to get Kate back there and he will do something to change this bleak future they have now. Jack "fixes things" and I think the remaining eppys. are going to focus on how Jack fixes (changes) everything - :biggrin: There is no way they would show us the END of the show, especially right now - and especially if that is what becomes of the HERO and his true love. I believe that Jack will fix everything somehow.DL
Definitely a cool idea.

I like many others in here am still left saying, "I'm so confused..." I didn't not love it because there was way too much intriguing stuff taking place. The confusion comes from missing basically all the context for much of what took place.:confused:

I feel that TPTB continue to play things extremely close to the vest, always erring on the side of caution when it comes to plot advancement. I really did enjoy this episode, for the most part, because it was tense and exciting. But, as others have stated, why would Ben be so cryptic if so many lives were at stake? If he is "one of the good guys," and desperately needs this island to stay safe why is he lying to everyone (including his own people)?

Locke's actions were equally puzzling and I really could have used more explanation. Walt appears to Locke and we get virtually no explanation as to the important "work" he has to finish. Then it appears that whatever "mission" Locke was supposed to complete failed, since Jack "Man of Science" Shepard is a devastated man in the future.
I probably need to watch this a few more times before I can make up my mind on how I really feel about the episode and the season as a whole. Right now though, I'm finding myself asking for any contextual structure. Lots of stuff was thrown into the air, but none of it has hit the ground yet.:undecide:

IMO - THAT was just ONE POSSIBLE future. I believe that in the remaining eppys. we will definitely see them back on the island. Jack is going to get Kate back there and he will do something to change this bleak future they have now. Jack "fixes things" and I think the remaining eppys. are going to focus on how Jack fixes (changes) everything - :biggrin:


Okay what if...this flashforward isn't the future but just thoughts of a possible future Jack imagine he will have if he helped people to get off the island? What if in the beginning of season 4 he chooses to believe Ben and Locke and decides that Naomi's boat is not the right solution?:confused:

Where do I start? LOL

I was totally blown away by every last bit of the show ... first time around. But after I digested it, I find that I am not as thrilled with this one as I was with Seasons 1&2 finales. Let me explain.


Charlie's death was forced. He did not have to die because when he learned that Naomi was not sent by Penny he should have understood that the "rescue" was not correct and that Naomi was the "bad guy."
The radio room should not have completely filled with water, allowing Charlie to breathe at the top. The pressure of the water already locked in the room, and having no place to go since it can't go out as the water is coming in, would stop the water from filling much more than just above the port hole window.
When the transmission began, there was instantly someone there waiting. That someone was Penny. What was she doing for the last 16 years ... just sitting and waiting for the transmission to go through? (Of course not, and neither was anyone but the fact that they had her just sitting there and waiting ... not showing her hearing the transmission and then coming over to see what it was ... made it look foolish to me; very comic book hero-like.) And since the stations all belong(ed) to DHARMA, that must mean that Penny works for, owns now, or is some how connected to DHARMA. (Which, btw, I like. I think that's a cool plot twist.)
Mik survives a spear gun to the center of his chest at the diaphragm and yet is still strong enough to swim outside the LG and hold his breath long enough to blow the thing open? I.Think.Not.
Ben just gives up Danielle and Alex just stares at her while Danielle fondles Alex's face? I'm sorry but that was, for me, the biggest let down of the whole finale. We waited 3 seasons for their reunion and that's all we got? I can understand that they probably didn't have a lot of time to devote to that moment but then they should have held off until S04. IMO, that whole reuniting should have been a Danielle-centric eppy or at least half of one where she could have been focused on.
Not cool that Bernard spilled his guts like someone that had had too much soda and cotton candy on the Tilt-A-Whirl. It felt so much like a forced moment. "How can we get the info to Tom et al? Oh, let's have the Dentist-Not Rambo spill his guts like an over turned bucket of popcorn at the movies." Yea, that'll work. All it did was set him up to be the hated kid on the block when the smoke clears and it's just them ... because I seriously doubt that they will get off the island with Jack and Kate.Ok ... cool stuff.

Hurley running over the Other with the van. I thought it was so symbolic that the icon of the 60s for Love, Peace and Mellowness was used 2 times as a death machine. a] Ben killed his father in it and b] Hurley pulls a hit and run in it. But it was totally cool!
Sawyer shot Zeke (always preferred Zeke over Tom)! YippeyKaiAye! He had it coming to him ... "for taking the kid off the raft." I think Sawyer is simply now in the mind frame to settle the score with any and all that he has a score to settle.
I think it's cool that the team on the beach is mostly B-Team (only A Teamers are Sawyer and Sayid) and that once Desmond joins them (and he will in S04) they are gonna' be one bad *** Die Hard team!
I do think it's cool that (as I listed above #6) there is now a new beach team lead by Sawyer. When Desmond reunites with them I think they'll all trek back to the radio tower to find that Jack and Kate are gone. I'm sure Sun, Rose and Claire will have stayed ... needing to be with their loves. I kind of think it might be that whoever comes will only take Jack and Kate. I don't know why ... just a gut feeling but I do hope that Sun gets off so she can have her baby and not die.That's all I can think of now. I'm at work so I can't really devote too much time to this.

Woah, just watched the episode and I am kind of still in shock!

I was spoiled for the flashback, and figured out at about the second or third jack "flashback" that it was infact a flashforward. On one level, this is the first jackback/forward, whatever, that I've been interested in this season.

I don;t hide the fact that I don't like Jack's character, especially after this season, and I thought I would feel a certain amount of pleasure seeing him a washed up suicidal, drug addict, but it was just plain sad, and depressing. Plus something major must go down which causes them all alot of pain/death for him to turn out like that. It makes me very, very worried about what's going to go down for the Losties as a result of them making that phone call.

For some reason, I think I might believe Ben that Jack making that call causes all the trouble, and this might be the first action in a line of actions of Jack's that cause him to feel so guilty and messed up like we see in the future. Not that I can blame Jack for not believing Ben and making the call, why on earth would he listen to Ben.

I don;t think we are going to see Jack and Kate go back to island to change time or something, I think that would be far too science fiction. What I think we will see most likely is flash forwards now rather than flashbacks. I don;t really like the idea, but I'm willing to see how they play out in season four before I judge them too harshly.

But I severly hope the writers know what they're doing, and that this was always part of the plan, because I hope the writers haven't been listening to the fans moaning about the flashbacks, because I think they will alienate a whole lot of their fan fase with this flash forward thing.

There was a lot about this episode I loved, the Charlie/Desmond storyline was just riviting, and that Mikail sure is one tough bastard to kill! But like most things about this episode along with the amazing stuff there are little things that niggle at me. Like, why didn't charlie close the door from the other side? I know he thought he had to die to make desmond's vision come true, but it did seem a bit silly as he's already done his job, him surviving wouldn't have stopped that happening!

The other's getting blown up was amazing, I was literally yelling "hahaha you bastards that serves YOU right!" and sayid and jin were such legends! What hero's

Hurley running the others' over with the van was the best thing ever, I was cheering him on. hurley's such an amazing character, he's the heart of Lost I think, he always is anice, caring guy and he always comes through for his friends. He sure proved James wrong and I don;t think he'll forget it!

I feel sad for sawyer and proud of him as a result of this episode. He feels the need to protect kate, but because he killed Cooper he's totally messed up in the head right now and is trying to distance himself from her to punish himself. He felt the need to go on a suicide mission just as Juliet did, because he feels he needs to make amends for what he did in a fit of anger and pain. Plus his self-destructive steak in a mile long. But I'm glad he wanted to truly be part of the group and go try and resuce sayid, jin and Bernard. And I'm glad he put a bullet in Tom. He wanted them to put bullets in sayid, jin and bernard, he blew up the raft, kidnapped Walt, almost killed jin, sawyer and michael, plus he had a gun to Kate's head in THP. He had it coming, and this harked back to season two and I liked it as well!

The Danielle and Alex reunion had be welling up, that was a big pay off that harks back to season one and it was beautifully done.

What I didn;t like was the fact that Penny was randomly on the phone/incoming message thing when Charlie activated it. Does this mean that she is part of her fathjer's company and that Widmore are definetly involved in the island?

I also didn;t like Walt randomly appearing. Seemed like something the writers put in because they thought it would be cool. It was just wierd.

Didn;t like locke only being in the episode for about a minute or two, seemed like a bit of a waste.

Didn't like the way Jack told Kate he loved her, I don;t have a problem with him telling her, it is obvious he has feelings for her, but it just seemed wierd and poorly written to me and totally random. But the writers clearly want the quadrangle to be talked about and discussed by those are invested in it so I guess that is why theyn placed it in.

But overall I thought the episode was good, but not what it was hyped to be. I think with this show the best thing to do is not to listen to the spoiler, Kristen, Ausiello etc, and definetly NEVER listen to darlton, then I don;t think anyone would really be disapointed in the show. I am definetly looking forward to season four, but I truly don;t know what to expect, plot wise or what they are doing with these flashforwards!

IMO - THAT was just ONE POSSIBLE future. I believe that in the remaining eppys. we will definitely see them back on the island. Jack is going to get Kate back there and he will do something to change this bleak future they have now. Jack "fixes things" and I think the remaining eppys. are going to focus on how Jack fixes (changes) everything - :biggrin:

There is no way they would show us the END of the show, especially right now - and especially if that is what becomes of the HERO and his true love. I believe that Jack will fix everything somehow.

DL

I really hope you are right Doc , this is the first time ever I have NO opinion on a finale , I just don't know what I thought of it :frown:
One thing I do know is I wasn't crazy about the flash-forward. But I am hoping it will become more apparant as season 4 progresses. :undecide:

I have very mixed feelings about the episode.

1. The Flash Forward. I suspected right from the get-go that it was not an ordinary flashback because I felt that Jack's beard was an allusion to the Star Trek episode "Mirror, Mirror," in which a parallel universe is visited in which Spock has a beard. The flash forward was pretty glum and suggests that Jack is of weaker stuff than we had thought. What was most troubling to me, though, was that the unresolved elements of the flash forward strongly suggest that next season we will not have flashbacks but instead will have flash forwards. I don't think I care for that idea.

2. As someone who is fat, I am tired of people deliberately insulting Hurley's fatness in order to get him not to do something. Come on, folks.

3. Speaking of Hurley, I don't think his "Hurley saves the day" moment was adequately set up by the writers. In a previous episode there should have at least been some mention that he had moved the VW down near the beach.

4. I did not think that the reunion of Rousseau and Alex was very rewarding.

5. Juliette, my favorite character, was pretty wasted in the finale. But,silver lining, she did not die, and will apparently be back next year to give us more subtle facial expressions and quizzical looks.

6. I was disappointed that there was no twist to the Charlie will die thread. Also, I don't understand why he shut himself in that room instead of escaping.

7. I hope Michael did not die. I love this Rasputin-like character and want to see him back for more.

8. The whole thing where the Losties on the beach were not actually killed was pretty hackneyed. It would have been nice to see at least one person die unexpectedly (I vote Jin, since I like Sayid and it would have been too predictable to see Bernard die, although I would not miss him).

9. I thought the Jack-Ben and Jack-Locke confrontations were both good. But Jack does need some conversational skills. And why didn't he ask Ben what proof Ben had of his assertions?

10. Nice to see at least two dynamanite (as Hugo Reyes put it in the blooper real in Season 1) piles going off instead of the plan being a total failure, as Lostie plans usually are. Good to see them actually killing some Others en masse.

11. Nice to see Walt back. I presume they had to shoot him from the angle they did because he has grown a lot.

12. I would have liked the radio transmission tower set to be creepier. Also, who set it up? Dharma?

13. What was Penelope doing waiting by the video phone?

14. Glad that Naomi bought it. I didn't like her.

15. Is it me, or is Rousseau a lot less bonkers this season than in season one? Did the Dharma plane drop a load of meds?

16. I guess the fact that Desmond survived (hoped he wouldn't) means we'll have more future flashes next season.

17. Does Jack love Kate or does he loooooove Kate?

18. I guess the only cliffhanger is will the new guys try to kill everybody and/or will Claire and her baby actually get off the island?

19. I want to see Locke kick some major *** next season.

20. I was sorry to see the Hot Other Twins buy it so quickly. There goes my chance to see some hot Other-on-Other action.

21. I was a little saddened this season to see the Dharma Initiative go from the creepy as heck entity it was last season to the rather benign harmless hippy entity it ended up seeming this season. I hope next season we get to see more of its dark side.

22. If the Others can bring a fertility expert onto the island, can't they find a civil engineer somewhere to help them build an airstrip? Or perhaps they only decided to do it after the hatch blew up. In any case, they are some sorry-*** airstrip builders.

23. We never did learn through the whole season why the Others wanted Kate and Sawyer. I guess purely as plot device?

24. Dominic M. did a good job as Charlie in the finale.

25. I really don't want to have to wait until February. What if I get hit by a Mack truck before then?

i thought it was a really great episode because the finale still underlines the story that Damon and Cuse are telling.......about redemption....purging ones self.....etc. etc. etc.

I liked it because it made Charlie a hero and i think he really needed to be one. But his inevitable death also showed how making certain decision can alter someone's life.

In the Season we see Charlie as some cocky rock star who is strung out on drugs....and had the characteristic of being weak. That's exactly how he arrived at the island.....then he meets Claire and in the first time of his life....he is beginning to care about someone other than himself. The Locke--more or less- helps him to kick his drug habit....but it still had to be Charlie's decision to do that....now he's showing some strength....and you have to admit....he has his sweet moments.....taking a empty glass and pretending it was peanut butter and giving it to Claire....because Claire was having such a down moment.....again....he is showing compassion. Then Charlies starts showing weak moments again.....kidnapping Sun......taking the baby when Claire didn't give him permission to do it.....so forth and so on......but Charlie desperately wants to please Claire. They have a connection.....and when the last couple of episodes came at the end of Season Three.....it showed us a totally different Charlie from the one we saw at the beginning. I believe Charlie had found redemption and wanted to be a better person...not only for Claire....but for himself....even if it meant losing his life. So when it came down to the mission of going down to the underwater hatch and shuting off the yellow light that was jamming the transmission....Charlie did not hesitate in volunteering for the mission.....and he knew he was going to drown.....but he also knew it meant that Claire and the baby would get to the leave the island.....so he wanted to sacrifice his self...for them.....and that took courage my friend....to lay down your own life.....so that others can have life.

That's what i loved about this episode so much......i didn't like it when Charlie died ......but the puzzle pieces have to fall into "place" to finish the story.

My favorite part was Hurley saving the Jin...Bernard...and Sayid by driving the van through the camp and running over "an other" (lol)

It was a good episode.

I have thought this over all day and decided that I loved this ep. More than that, I love the writers who must just love to go to work and figure out how to toy with my emotions like this. Bless you, buggers.

In comment to some other comments here, I liked the way Jack said he loved Kate. I don't think he meant looove love, but genuinely cares for her love. A well delivered line by Mr. Fox!

I concur on the holes surrounding Charlie, like closing the door from outside, why the room may not have filled with water all the way, and how Mik survived a spear to the chest....I conclude that perhaps Dom has other lofty acting aspirations????? Contract was up? Be that as it may, a fantastic final bow on his part bringing Charlie back to being a very sympathetic character.

I think Walt's appearance is obvious....Jacob is the "entity" that takes the form of all these weird apparitions through the whole thing. Jacob is the spirit of the island. His "Help Me" is a plea to have John help protect/save the island. He comes to John in the form of Walt, someone Locke would "trust" to encourage to get on with his work...saving the island (from Jack, as Ben predicts)

Jack falls into the pit of despair in the future everyone is saved reality, because he has finally, though tragically too late, come to see the whole event/island in the way that Ben or Locke would. He wants nothing more than to go back to island....

Now, as to what happened to everyone else, why Kate's not is jail, who was in the coffin, and how in the hell TPTB are going keep this story as compelling for three more years, well that's just about enough to make me want to forge a scrip for oxycodone so I can just stop the pain and fall asleep.

So many questions, so many long, long months until the answers come....

the funeral had to be for sawyer, how else would jack think that kate would come to it....and i have to say could it be some type of alternate universe or timeline where once they got rescued they went back to the time they got on the plane or before. thats why jacks dad is still alive...i dont know the episode blew me away

I was one of those who read lostfan's spoilers when they first came out, and thought that if they were real, then we were in for a good episode. Which, by and large, it was, I enjoyed the ride. Having had a chance to think it over, the big problems for me were:

1. Charlie. I've never been a fan, but his 'death' was incredibly badly written, just stupid and pointless. I really hope they show him surviving somehow.
2. Answers. We got none. TPTB could've given us thrown us a frickin' bone here...
3. Locke. Did TOQ film other scenes that got cut out? 'Cos his murderous new persona didn't make sense on any level.
4. Snake In The Mailbox. Where was it? The flashforwards kinda bored me (as much as any Jack flashbacks, and Jack is one of my favourite characters...), and even when the Kate 'reveal' happened, no-one I was watching the episode with seemed surprised or shocked.

If there's one thing I've learnt from this episode, and the build up to it: DON'T listen to or believe anything Damon and Carlton say, they're masters of hype, exaggeration, and downright lying. Like Ben! :rolleyes: :biggrin:

the funeral had to be for sawyer, how else would jack think that kate would come to it....and i have to say could it be some type of alternate universe or timeline where once they got rescued they went back to the time they got on the plane or before. thats why jacks dad is still alive...i dont know the episode blew me away

The funeral took place in California. Sawyer would be unlikely to be there. However, it could well be a funeral for Locke. Not friend or family of Jack's, and someone who has no friends or family of his own. Moreover, someone who Kate would know but whom she could legitimately express surprise about that Jack would ask if she had been to his funeral.

I liked most of the episode, but the flash forward was just hackneyed. If it's the future then that means Jack and Kate's survival is set in stone, and any potential relationship between them is doomed. If it's a possible alternate future, then they're just yanking our chain and it's completely meaningless. No one on the island saw the flash forward we saw, so it was just for our eyes only. No one was privy to what will/would/could/should/might happen, so no one can take specific steps to prevent it.

I liked most of the episode, but the flash forward was just hackneyed. If it's the future then that means Jack and Kate's survival is set in stone, and any potential relationship between them is doomed. If it's a possible alternate future, then they're just yanking our chain and it's completely meaningless. No one on the island saw the flash forward we saw, so it was just for our eyes only. No one was privy to what will/would/could/should/might happen, so no one can take specific steps to prevent it.

Hi, Witchking. "Alternative futures" really remind me of those old DC comics from the 1960s, where everything gets turned upside down, but it never *means* anything, because it was just a throwaway story. Stargate SG-1 likes to do it every so often, too, but IMO it's equally vapid.

If anything is possible, why pay attention to it in the show?

I personally like the idea of the flashforward. There's alot of possibilities they could go with that would be cool if done right. For example, maybe only a few people got off the island (Jack and Kate among them obviously) and the "island story" continues with the hostiles and remaining losties, and now Jack realizes that he and Kate should have stayed to help. I could see Jack and Kate disappearing from the main storyline a la Michael and Walt, they are both popular characters that a lot of people would not miss for a while. And this is not even taking into account the possible time differential between the island and the real world. And don't kid yourselves, the flashback is not being replaced by the flashforward, they will likely share equal duties. The back stories of alot of the characters are still unresolved IMHO. I think the Jack of the future we saw is a very strong possibility of the Jack we know, he is following in his father's footsteps, this is extremely common.

That having been said, I agree that Charlies noble suicide makes no sense in the light of the fact that Claire and Aaron would not be getting rescued; Naomi lied about working for Penny, the flashes Desmond experienced were misleading, if he wanted to help them he should have escaped, which looked extremely possible.

As far as Penny being on the line when the jamming was disrupted I say, do not mistake coincidence for fate.

I liked most of the episode, but the flash forward was just hackneyed. If it's the future then that means Jack and Kate's survival is set in stone, and any potential relationship between them is doomed. If it's a possible alternate future, then they're just yanking our chain and it's completely meaningless. No one on the island saw the flash forward we saw, so it was just for our eyes only. No one was privy to what will/would/could/should/might happen, so no one can take specific steps to prevent it.I don't think their futures are set in stone. If Jack gets back to the island who know what will happen to him. Same for Kate. I think this is how it will go eventually.

I have very mixed feelings about the episode.

1. The flash forward was pretty glum and suggests that Jack is of weaker stuff than we had thought. What was most troubling to me, though, was that the unresolved elements of the flash forward strongly suggest that next season we will not have flashbacks but instead will have flash forwards. I don't think I care for that idea.



i think the beard was to show 2 things.

1. A long time has passed.
2. His not caring about himself anymore. Jack always had the short haircut, now, he just doesn't care.
I think whatever he and kate did to get off the island was so disturbing to him, he just can't cope.

(Yay i finally got to log in) Well, chalk me up with the Neutrals - it had both good and bad points to it and I'm (unfortunately) gonna have to waiiiiiiit annnnnd seeeee next year how things pan out. Darn it's gonna be a looooong Summer and Fall. :D

I do like how the mystery of the island is now coming back into play, and also the little bit of payback given to some of them Others. I too am dying to know more about Juliet's role, and the role of those like Mikhail, Richard, and Jacob.

What I'm kind of iffy on is how this whole flash-forward thing is going to play out. Please don't tell me that we're going to do the whole "let's play with the space-time continuum to set things right" deal. Oh no ... please. Every choice has its consequences. I just don't want one of those Disney-esque endings where they try to "go back and save everyone" and succeed. Including those who've died on the island.

Having said that I'm up for going back to the island. I was just there on Oahu last weekend and it was bloody amazing!! I WANT to go back. /self-indulgent thing

Well, off to the S1 and S2 dvds for me ...

Hey, new here, but love the show. I think Kate is with James (Sawyer). That has a lot to do with why she wasn't overjoyed to see Jack and may have contributed to Jack's depression. Where they go with the show is possible to introduce alternate futures, but then what? We do need to find out why the others are protecting the island so.... long wait.

the funeral had to be for sawyer, how else would jack think that kate would come to it....
He didn't really EXPECT Kate to have gone.... he just hoped that she might show up, and when he asked her about it, she brushed it off with, "Why would I go?" It didn't seem like it was someone IMPORTANT to Kate, but rather someone she was acquainted with and MIGHT go just to pay respects... or if she didn't like the person, to see dead.

I am now of the belief that the funeral was Michael's. That might explain the neighborhood and choice of funeral home. It would also explain Jack's answer of "Neither" to the director's "Friend or family" question.

The focus of the episode was on Charlie's "heroic" sacrifice. Say what will you will about his decision and the physics of the situation, his intention was always to sacrifice himself for others. He thought he was giving his life to help Claire and Aaron get off the island, then he ended up sealing himself in the comm room to save Desmond (either from running into the grenade blast trying to see his beloved Penny, or drowning or worse from some catastrophe in the station due to the sudden change in pressure)

The focus of the episode was on Charlie's "heroic" sacrifice. Say what will you will about his decision and the physics of the situation, his intention was always to sacrifice himself for others. He thought he was giving his life to help Claire and Aaron get off the island, then he ended up sealing himself in the comm room to save Desmond (either from running into the grenade blast trying to see his beloved Penny, or drowning or worse from some catastrophe in the station due to the sudden change in pressure)

I very much agree here...I just have to be a teensy bit nitpicky about one thing, as it's been meant as a dis to Des in previous posts also. He initially was *not* running to the comm room because he heard Penny's voice: if you'll rewatch the scene, Des ran in when the grenade blast went off, and he saw Charlie begin to close the door. His initial reaction was a concern for Charlie. It wasn't until he got nearly to the closing door that he heard her voice and called her name.

Charlie's welfare was his first concern, hence his bolt towards the door. Just wanted to clear that up!

Cheers--
*hiccup*

I finally watched the season finale last night (I am in Turkey so we get it a bit later), and thought that it was probably the show's best episode since Exodus Part II. It was suspenseful, action packed, and, at times, rather moving. The acting was great by the show’s standards, and, for the first time since the pilot, the production values, the camerawork and the direction once again cinematic. Even though it suffered from many of the show’s usual failings, the back-to-basics feel to the episode, with all the Lostaways finally together on some – probable - fool’s errand, and finally an interesting – and pertinent – parallel-plot elevated the show above the levels of most other mainstream dramas. Not just that, but it was also unsettling in a way few shows ever dare to be.

I really liked Charlie, and that had a lot to do with Dominic Monaghan’s pitch-perfect performance throughout his run. Even though it’s a shame he had to die, I think it was understandable from a story-point of view as his character arc had been complete for a while now. His final self-sacrifice was very moving: a testament to the character’s growth while on the island, as well as underlining the show’s overall theme of redemption/damnation.

In fact, that Yin-Yang relationship is more obvious than ever before as demonstrated by, for example, the recent developments in Locke and Sawyer’s respective characters. Locke’s inability to kill his father, or himself, or, in fact, Jack demonstrated that he might not be the hunter/hero that the Island seemed to have molded him into. This subtle emasculation was contrasted by Sawyer’s transformation from a joker/con artist to a murderer. Whereas he was haunted by the memories of killing the man in Sydney, he did not seem to show any remorse for strangling Anthony Cooper, as attested to by his shooting Tom even after the latter had surrendered. I have a feeling that Locke’s confrontation with Jack and Sawyer’s with Tom are linked stylistically (of course), and thematically. I think the Others wanted Locke to kill his father because they wanted to see if he would be able to kill one of his won men should it ever come to it. Obviously he failed – but Sawyer would not have.

The redemption/damnation motif also formed the basis of Jack’s story. I know that he is despised more than any other character (apart from Charlie, I suppose), but Jack is one of my favourites. It’s an old caveat of – good – comic book writers that it is far easier to write Wolverine than Cyclops. Similarly, Jack - an uneasy leader whose decisions usually produce ambivalent results - with all his genuine goodwill, heroism, altruism as well as his almost psychotic obsessiveness, sins-of-the-father issues, and, err, voice-control problems, is a much more complicated character than many others on the beach. His arc is the show’s arc – damnation or salvation. And Matthew Fox’s performance, which, admittedly, comes and goes, has been fantastic enough in the last seven or so episodes to rise to that larger challenge. So it was a combination of all these factors that made the final revelation in his flashforward that Jack was not redeemed all the more shocking.

Oh yeah – the flashforward.

I can’t say I didn’t see it coming. When we were talking about Lost on another board a few weeks back, a friend mentioned that he would like the series finale to be a slowly-revealed flasforward that would “flashback” to how the Lostaways escaped the island. I had entertained similar convention-defying possibilities before (not like that, you filthy heathens), and, albeit slightly similar to the Voyager finale, my mate’s idea was great. A few days ago, I accidentally saw an avatar on another board of LeonidasJack, and, remembering the leap-in-time approach of the Battlestar Galactica third season finale, I entertained whether a similar idea was introduced in Lost. There were also a few tell-tale signs in the episode as well. The first one was the deliberate obscuration of the date of the paper, and the identity of the person who committed suicide. Another sign was Jack’s mobile, which was a Motorola Razr, and not released until 2005 (or, maybe, 2006) – having said that, I also thought it might have been a simple error. Even though Jack’s mentioning his father threw me off at first, I thought it was too obvious a red herring, and that, if confronted, the producers could just write it off as Jack’s being high as a cloud at the time. Still, I was flabbergasted when Kate walked out of the shadows. It was such a bold, and imaginative move - setting up a great avenue to explore for the three seasons ahead. The fact that Jack had not been redeemed after all they went through (a line of Jack’s at which I raised an eyebrow) was an incredibly powerful way to end the show. It was like the producers’ saying: “Right, so you want answers? Here’s one: Kate and Jack get off the island, but they end up estranged, and, even better, Jack is more fucked up than ever! Happy now, bitches?” In one single episode, the show managed to undo most of the effects of introducing The Others as regular characters, which led to their demystification. Unlike the end of the second season, we were left with genuine questions. Who’s in the casket (I reckon it’s Michael). What makes Jack go nuts? If I rigorously followed the wise teachings of Rhonda Byrne and The Secret, would Kate and Juliet ever get it on? Questions, questions...

I was disappointed with the second season, and most of the third season. I am so glad that the sheer brilliance of the first season is back, and I cannot wait for the next three season. We’re halfway there.

I loved the last episode, I loved the whole last half of the season, I was beginning to despair during the first half. There is one, tiny thing that has just bugged me. It really is insignificant in the grand scheme of things, kind of embarrassed to bring it up but it really bothered me. When everyone was leaving for the trek to the tower in hopes of rescue, why were they all lugging every suitcase they had? I can't imagine dragging all that with them.

maybe they aren't planning to go back to the beach.

I guess I was just looking at it from my perspective. If I had been stranded on an island for months & had a variety of things and people after me trying to do me greivous bodily harm I might have opted to make my trek to the radio tower as speedy as possible and ditched my suitcase(s). Oceanic would probably pony up for lost luggage

If I was stranded on an island where things change from day to day, I would be a little freaky about keeping my stuff with me wherever I went. I would probably take it to the bathroom with me so that if the Others show up to kidnap everyone or the polar bears eat all the food I would still have whatever few possessions I had managed to hang on to or aquire....

I think after a while you trust most of the people on the island. Despite them knowing that the others were going to attack one of the best ways to keep up secrecy would be to leave your luggage at the camp. Maybe take your most valuable possessions. I don't know about the rest of you but when I travel I definitely don't bring along family heirlooms, the most expensive thing I bring along is my camera or iPod. Maybe I'd slide them in my pockets if I was going on the trek, but I couldn't care less about clothes that I've had to wear for months.

When they left , everyone took what carryable items they had cause they were fixing to blow the camp up

I personally liked Charlie, but as Desmond relayed, he HAD to for Claire to get off the island. Slightly confusing was the lack of flashback of desmonds vision of this, was desmonds vision missing something he had not relayed to charlie, like perhaps a video phone call with Penny, and as it turned out Charlie denied him this? This was an ultimate act of self sacrifice. This may sound piggish perhaps, but i had hoped he woulda got a lot more than a lil 2 sec closed mouth kiss from her in exchange for laying his life down. i saw charlie as someone who had redeemed himself and died with a clear conscience. the only part of the whole charlie line in the epi that i didnt like, was the ring left behind in the crib, now probably buried in the sand somewhere from the blasts. woulda been better for a cut shot of Claire wearing it and looking down at it worrying about him, as she was reconciling her feelings towards charlie instead of the lil tease keeping her distance as we've seen all along from her.

The Danielle/alex reunion: I think they were going for a "less is more" kinda thing with the way they did this. a confused teen looking at some psycho looking chick whos in her face and a beaten and bloody Ben lifting a finger saying " shes your mother" was almost comical, and kinda weak. at least 1 flashback for danielle and her teams ordeal with the Others woulda been cool, for more backstory.


I orignally posted in the LOVED IT, thread because of the overall great way things were done, and the cliffhangers it created going in new directions.

the ring left behind in the crib, now probably buried in the sand somewhere from the blasts. woulda been better for a cut shot of Claire wearing it and looking down at it worrying about him, as she was reconciling her feelings towards charlie instead of the lil tease keeping her distance as we've seen all along from her.

I agree with this. Although I hope Hurley finds the ring in the season 4 premiere and hangs onto it.

Half offtopic. Saw the finale from first season of "Alias" yesterday and was pretty perplexed by the scene when Vaughn (her handler from the CIA) is locked in a room filling with water. Sydney tries to break the window of the closed door with a fire extinguisher and Vaughn presses his hands at the window. I was expecting reading a message on his hand at this moment! =o)