Do Kate have any idea what a secret is? Sayid told Kate about the radio, and tell her there is a possible chance that they could be rescue. He tells her not to tell Jack. ..yet, that is the first person she runs to. Why? Kate must be aware of Jack strange behavior , and Kate must have notice that Jack haven't really been interacting with anyone on the island beside Juliet, since he came back. Yet, she still trust him enough to go to him. When Kate ask to speak with Jack alone, and he refuse, she should have walk away...yet, she tell him everything that Sayid told her not to tell Jack. What is wrong with Kate? Why would Kate still go to Jack, when ever time she do, he treats her like crap? Why do she continue to trust Jack, when he clearly can't really be trusted. What is wrong with Kate? she acting way to needed.


Comments, views, and Opinions are welcome

Maybe she doesn't want to believe that Jack is working with the Others, and felt that confronting him was the best way to find out if he was or not. (Granted, perhaps not the smartest plan, but potentially effective.) Also, Kate really wants to trust Jack. She's shown that, every time someone mentions their distrust of him.

Oh god she annoyed me in that scene. I would have slapped her soo hard if I was Sayid. She needs some sense knocked back into her.

Why tell "secret" to Jack maybe cause ;


- Jack was the guy who risked his life to save her and Sawyer.
- Jack was the one who helped out many people at season 1.
- Jack is the Leader they wanted for him to be.
- Jack is the guy she has feelings for.
- Jack is the guy she loves.
- She knows Jack, not by the stats like his weight or blood type or what ever. But she knows him and I get the reason why Kate has the needs to tell him everything. Cause she trusts Jack , and knows he wont do anything wrong to anyone.


So I dont think she should be accused about this. Jack knows more about Others and the Island. That is why she had to tell him that.

Do Kate have any idea what a secret is? Sayid told Kate about the radio, and tell her there is a possible chance that they could be rescue. He tells her not to tell Jack. ..yet, that is the first person she runs to. Why?

Maybe it was all part of the plan they hatched together (Sayid, Hurley, Charlie, Desmond, Kate) in the tent, to make out she was a tattle tale but in reality it is all planned. Basically TPTB can do anything here.. she is a tattle tale or she is not. You won't know for sure until (if) they reveal it one way or the other. A bit like the rest of LOST :)

Oh god she annoyed me in that scene. I would have slapped her soo hard if I was Sayid. She needs some sense knocked back into her.

Really, I felt like slapping Jack! Well to each their own, right?! I mean I know she was supposed to keep the secret, but Jack is acting so pompous right now, it's getting on my last nerve.

Honestly, it's almost a refreshing change of pace for her to blab when she should't have , considering that usually the opposite takes place and no one tells anyone else anything that's important.

Why tell "secret" to Jack maybe cause ;

- Jack was the guy who risked his life to save her and Sawyer.
- Jack was the one who helped out many people at season 1.
- Jack is the Leader they wanted for him to be.
- Jack is the guy she has feelings for.
- Jack is the guy she loves.
- She knows Jack, not by the stats like his weight or blood type or what ever. But she knows him and I get the reason why Kate has the needs to tell him everything. Cause she trusts Jack , and knows he wont do anything wrong to anyone.

So I dont think she should be accused about this. Jack knows more about Others and the Island. That is why she had to tell him that.
:shesaid:
Absolutely. She trusts Jack because he does what he says he is going to do. She owes him and while she may not understand him right now, she knows he is still on their side. The rest of the Losties may have short memories, but we the audience has seen Jack play poker. He is playing the hand of his life right now.

I think Kate did the right thing. Aren't we always complaining about the Losties not sharing information? Now Kate finally does that, and people get mad at her??????

see her smiling when sayid told her they had a secret, that was great. Then the dummy goes and tells the untrustworthy one, and doesn't demand he tell her his secret, that is the stupidest thing ever. Finally the losties will know Juliet is a mole, let's see how jack responds to that. That'll set him straight.

Why tell "secret" to Jack maybe cause ;


- Jack was the guy who risked his life to save her and Sawyer.
- Jack was the one who helped out many people at season 1.
- Jack is the Leader they wanted for him to be.
- Jack is the guy she has feelings for.
- Jack is the guy she loves.
- She knows Jack, not by the stats like his weight or blood type or what ever. But she knows him and I get the reason why Kate has the needs to tell him everything. Cause she trusts Jack , and knows he wont do anything wrong to anyone.


So I dont think she should be accused about this. Jack knows more about Others and the Island. That is why she had to tell him that.

I agree 100%. It all comes down to trust. Kate has witnessed how much Jack cares about people. She watched how hard he tried to save Boone, Libby, and the marshal. Not to mention how much he put into saving Charlie when he was hanged and going after Michael. How can she just give up on all that at the drop of a hat?

Because she wants Jack back. Not because she LOVES him. Not because she wants to have his babies (why does everything Kate does have to lead back to how she feels about either Jack or Sawyer?!) But because she knows the "live together or die alone" Jack and she wants him back. Because she doesn't understand WHY he is acting as he has been lately, not just toward her, but toward all of them. Because she thinks that this conscious lack of trust from a group of them might make him snap out of it. She's tried talking to him, asking him, being sweet to him, pretending like nothing is wrong... and she's no closer to knowing what his deal is. This was just a look what you are doing!! For what?

I think Kate did the right thing. Aren't we always complaining about the Losties not sharing information? Now Kate finally does that, and people get mad at her??????

there is a time and place for info sharing.

there is a time and place for info sharing.


Not when that info implies you may get rescued as soon as possible.

I think the real question here is why on earth were Sayid and Hurley using the radio in the middle of the beach where anybody could see them? Why not use it indoors???

Because Kate's character is self-serving, self-centered and juvenile.

Because she wants Jack back. Not because she LOVES him. Not because she wants to have his babies (why does everything Kate does have to lead back to how she feels about either Jack or Sawyer?!) But because she knows the "live together or die alone" Jack and she wants him back. Because she doesn't understand WHY he is acting as he has been lately, not just toward her, but toward all of them. Because she thinks that this conscious lack of trust from a group of them might make him snap out of it. She's tried talking to him, asking him, being sweet to him, pretending like nothing is wrong... and she's no closer to knowing what his deal is. This was just a look what you are doing!! For what?
:rockon: Although she does love him

I think she did it to get herself back in Jack's good graces. Im at my wit's end with the stupid "ship"s in this show. Kate and Jack are just about the most annoying characters ever. The love triangle/quartet is so tired and old, I wish it would be dropped already.

phew sorry, had to get that off my chest.

However I do think that Kate and Sawyer were awful cute together in this episode. It was well written, I had almost the same exact conversation with my hubby last night. (well, except for me trying to sneak off to my own tent, cause that would just be odd)

It seemed like she was trying to drive a wedge between Jack and Juliet, but Jack's reaction was totally the opposite. In fact, Juliet almost came off as the most trustworthy as we found that Jack was hiding something and wouldn't let her tell Kate about it.

I think Kate was trying to get Jack back on their team.

She is having trouble understanding how Jack can seemly leave her and everyone else who was on the plane for someone he has only known a couple of weeks.

Surviving a plane crash, plus trying to survive on the island forms bonds, strong bonds. Their feelings for each other probably run deeper and stronger then they would if they had met back in the real world.

It seemed like Kate was trying to hurt Jack by telling him that the Losties didn't trust him any more. She was a woman scorned and wanted to get back at Jack. Jack, not giving her any privacy didn't help either. It was as if he was saying, "Juliet and I are close now and we don't keep secrets from each other." Kate must have really been hurt. Then again, Kate did break his heart. That is, if you believe Juliet.

i don't think she was trying to "get back at Jack."
i felt like it was more about her trying to make Jack understand that no one trusted him anymore and he needed to actually deal with the problem.

wow... some serious hostility toward Kate going on here...

Poor Kate.

She's confused. Jack has been her anchor for the entire time they've been on the island. He's not accessible anymore. She's feeling replaced. She wants his attention. She wants his trust back. She can't have it. I have to say I feel for her.

On the other hand, Jack HAS alienated almost everyone... and maybe she just wanted to point that out and give him a heads up about Naomi. Given their past... I can understand that she wouldn't WANT to believe the others "got to him".

I don't think they did. I think he has a plan...

There is more going on then meets the eye. I am reserving judgement on both of them until I know the whole story. :)

She's confused. Jack has been her anchor for the entire time they've been on the island. He's not accessible anymore. She's feeling replaced. She wants his attention. She wants his trust back. She can't have it. I have to say I feel for her.



We saw this same scenario back in mid Season 2, when Jack and Ana-Lucia had renewed their friendship. We've seen this whenever Jack and Kate have a falling out or Jack gets pissed off by Kate's behvavior. And like a little girl, she tries to find a way to renew their relationship because she cannot deal with his cool attitude.

I wasn't annoyed with Kate. She wants to trust Jack. Not only is he their leader, he's her friend. I don't care if he's jealous or concerned or doesn't trust Kate because she's sleeping with Sawyer. What right is it of his to judge? Jack' s acting like an ***, expecting everyone to take his word about Juliet, when the only evidence they have to go on is what she did or helped to do to Sawyer and Kate and Charlie and Sayid and Danielle. Even if Jack's mission is to help the Losties, he's going about it the wrong way. He's inciting mistrust among his people. He's causing a rift between them that may not be repaired in time to protect them from the Others.

I do actually think it's in character for Kate to want to get Jack to realise what is going on, how he's shutting everyone out thanks to his cosiness/protection with Juliet thing and needs to repair the rift of distrust which is forming. I don't have a problem with her wanting to give him a heads up, on principle. She's got his back after all.

However, she went about things the wrong way.

Firstly, she betrayed Sayid's trust (and Des/Hurley/Charlie/Jin's trust by extension). He specifically asked her not to tell (to give them time to question her), and she still blurted out everything to Jack and Juliet. She could have just tried to approach Jack about the trust problem in general without giving away every detail of the Naomi/rescue news.

Secondly, she revealed it all in front of the one person she most definitely does NOT trust and is the direct cause of much of the camp's uneasiness and growing distrust. Juliet. That was just plain stupid considering the possible consequences of that.

That said, I didn't like Jack's abrasive and condescending attitude towards Kate, and I especially didn't like his smug/superior looks to Juliet and whole 'not yet' withholding of his secret.

No matter if he thinks it's for the camp's (and Kate's) good to be shut out of his master plan to save them all, he is most definitely exacerbating the problem with his dubious actions and dismissive attitude. If his plan involves everyone else, and if he knows what's coming (e.g. the raid) he needs to give them HIS trust. It's not a one way street. If he deserves to know what's going on that might have big consequences for the group, well so do the Losties. It could be argued that his plans are more likely go awry when he's not keeping people in the loop or including them in the decision making. JMO.

PS: Jack needn't tell everyone, if he fears a mole, but surely Kate and Sayid have earned his trust by now.

I think she did it to get herself back in Jack's good graces. Im at my wit's end with the stupid "ship"s in this show. Kate and Jack are just about the most annoying characters ever. The love triangle/quartet is so tired and old, I wish it would be dropped already.

I have to agree with you. The Kate and Jack ship had sailed a long time ago.


However I do think that Kate and Sawyer were awful cute together in this episode. It was well written, I had almost the same exact conversation with my hubby last night. (well, except for me trying to sneak off to my own tent, cause that would just be odd)

I love Sawyer and Kate in this episode. I think the only reason why Kate do not want to be with Sawyer is because he reminds her of Wayne. Jack is treating Kate the way her mother treated her, and that is why she keep running after Jack.

Sawyer=Wayne
Jack= Kate mother

It seemed like Kate was trying to hurt Jack by telling him that the Losties didn't trust him any more. She was a woman scorned and wanted to get back at Jack. Jack, not giving her any privacy didn't help either. It was as if he was saying, "Juliet and I are close now and we don't keep secrets from each other." Kate must have really been hurt. Then again, Kate did break his heart. That is, if you believe Juliet.


I agree. Kate was trying to hurt Jack, because she was hurt by Jack. I do not believe that Jack was hurt by Kate sleeping with Sawyer, considering Jack was aware of Kate feeling for Sawyer way before they ever encounter the others, so why would he be surprise , or hurt by them sleeping together. Hell, by that time , Jack should have been expecting it.



Firstly, she betrayed Sayid's trust (and Des/Hurley/Charlie/Jin's trust by extension). He specifically asked her not to tell (to give them time to question her), and she still blurted out everything to Jack and Juliet. She could have just tried to approach Jack about the trust problem in general without giving away every detail of the Naomi/rescue news.

Secondly, she revealed it all in front of the one person she most definitely does NOT trust and is the direct cause of much of the camp's uneasiness and growing distrust. Juliet. That was just plain stupid considering the possible consequences of that.

That said, I didn't like Jack's abrasive and condescending attitude towards Kate, and I especially didn't like his smug/superior looks to Juliet and whole 'not yet' withholding of his secret.

No matter if he thinks it's for the camp's (and Kate's) good to be shut out of his master plan to save them all, he is most definitely exacerbating the problem with his dubious actions and dismissive attitude. If his plan involves everyone else, and if he knows what's coming (e.g. the raid) he needs to give them HIS trust. It's not a one way street. If he deserves to know what's going on that might have big consequences for the group, well so do the Losties. It could be argued that his plans are more likely go awry when he's not keeping people in the loop or including them in the decision making. JMO.

PS: Jack needn't tell everyone, if he fears a mole, but surely Kate and Sayid have earned his trust by now.

Well said. Jack treated Kate like totally crap, yet she still in his face. Once Jack told Kate that she can speak in front of Juliet, Kate should have walk away. Kate had known Jack much longer than Jack had know Juliet, therefore , as a friend, Jack should have allow some private time for Kate. hell, Jack and Juliet is not even sleeping together, yet he act like he can't spare a minute for anyone else. What a jerk. I know a lot of people "Want" to believe that Jack have a plan, but we also believe that Jack plan back in season 2, when he didn't tell Sawyer , or Kate that Michael had been compromise. we all thought that Jack had a plan when they were all on the docks....but he didn't.

I would not be surprise if Jack was working with the others/Ben. Because even when Michael was leading them into a trap, Sawyer didn't trust Michael, he trusted Jack, just like now. No one trusts Juliet, they all trust Jack.

Its just typical new-girl-breaking-up-the-band story. Jack = John, Juliet = Yoko.

I don't think its being handled very effectively by the writers so far. Nothing in this scene rang true for me. Why would Kate blurt out Sayid's secret in front of Jack and Juliet seemingly for spite? Yes shes juvenile, but this was a bit much. Why would Juliet say "we should tell her" when Kate is standing RIGHT THERE? When you say something like that in front of someone, then you pretty much have to tell them, because any normal person would demand to know wtf is going on. So why'd Kate just let it go? Because this scene is pure contrivance to hype J/J's secret reveal in a future episode, natch.

OK all the Kate/Jack BS aside (mostly because their relationship annoys the hell out of me)
I was mad at Kate for betraying Sayid's trust in her. He has always stood her friend never treated her like dirt even after finding out she was a fugitive, always trusted her but she runs & tells his secret to the one person who has been acting compromised since returning from OTHERLAND. The one person Sayid would not want to know about the phone or the parachutist.:rolleye1: ( 2 people actually since Sayid has no trust with Juliet either)

Kate needs slapped like Cher did Nick Cage in MOONSTRUCK and told SNAP OUT OF IT. :headslap:

If you do not like Jack's actions go tell him THAT. If you want to tell him people are having problems with trusting him, go tell him that. Don't go tell him what someone told in SECRET.

I was hoping I would find a thread like this.
When I saw that I was like "WTF KATE!?! WAY TO GO YOU STUPID HOEBAG!"
I mean, she kept that "secret" for like what, 3 minutes??
Jesus, what a dumbass. I'm sure it's related to her looking-for-daddy syndrome that she can't keep anything from Jack and has no spine, even tho he clearly has no interest or care for her anymore. She's so naive...
She could've still "gotten back" at Jack and let him know no one trusted him without blathering out the entire secret, and could've at least held fast in refusing to speak it in front of Juliet.

Jack also pissed me off a lot in this scene. Juliet must have his nuts in a mason jar to have him acting like such a pansy and just reiterating that phrase "whatever you say to me you can say in front of her." Come on Jack, you big fat whipped loser...

I do actually think it's in character for Kate to want to get Jack to realise what is going on, how he's shutting everyone out thanks to his cosiness/protection with Juliet thing and needs to repair the rift of distrust which is forming. I don't have a problem with her wanting to give him a heads up, on principle. She's got his back after all.

However, she went about things the wrong way.

Firstly, she betrayed Sayid's trust (and Des/Hurley/Charlie/Jin's trust by extension). He specifically asked her not to tell (to give them time to question her), and she still blurted out everything to Jack and Juliet. She could have just tried to approach Jack about the trust problem in general without giving away every detail of the Naomi/rescue news.

Secondly, she revealed it all in front of the one person she most definitely does NOT trust and is the direct cause of much of the camp's uneasiness and growing distrust. Juliet. That was just plain stupid considering the possible consequences of that.

That said, I didn't like Jack's abrasive and condescending attitude towards Kate, and I especially didn't like his smug/superior looks to Juliet and whole 'not yet' withholding of his secret.

No matter if he thinks it's for the camp's (and Kate's) good to be shut out of his master plan to save them all, he is most definitely exacerbating the problem with his dubious actions and dismissive attitude. If his plan involves everyone else, and if he knows what's coming (e.g. the raid) he needs to give them HIS trust. It's not a one way street. If he deserves to know what's going on that might have big consequences for the group, well so do the Losties. It could be argued that his plans are more likely go awry when he's not keeping people in the loop or including them in the decision making. JMO.

PS: Jack needn't tell everyone, if he fears a mole, but surely Kate and Sayid have earned his trust by now.

Absolutely, totally correct!!! Plus, she doesn't know what the word SECRET means, and she doesn't have a 'word' to give and Sayid surely knows this. The shrewd and cunning Kate we all knew and loved is long gone... Must be Sawyers fault - all the women around him lose their brains...:hypocrit:

Oldwiz

Flaming, blatent jealously+sinking self esteem+pregnancy hormones+constant crisis=blabbermouth:rolleyes:

I have a different take on this because I think the B story echoed the A story in the episode, as is often the case.

* Sawyer was just going about his normal life. Locke sought him out, and told him about actions he had taken in secret, i.e. kidnapping Ben and holding him prisoner. Sawyer had no part in creating the situaton. .
* Kate stumbled across Sayid, Hurley and the radio by accident and learned about actions they'd been taking in secret, i.e. hiding Naiomi. Kate had no part in creating the situation.

* Locke asked Sawyer to keep his visit secret and to go off with him alone to kill Ben.
* Sayid asked Kate to keep a secret about Naiomi and the radio.

* Locke's request puts Sawyer in a moral dilemma because it goes against what he believes in strongly, i.e. Locke wants Sawyer to kill Ben/Sawyer refuses adamantly.
* Sayid's request puts Kate in a moral dilemma because she believes strongly in "live together, die alone", and keeping secrets about a splinter group following a private agenda over something as important as Naiomi and the radio goes against that.

* Sawyer's can't do what Locke wants him to do. Ben should be dealt with by the group, not by one person. Hence, his insistence on bringing Ben back to the beach camp.
* Kate can't do what Sayid asks her to do. Naiomi and the possibility of rescue should be dealt with by the group, not by just a few people in secret. Hence, she wants a private word with Jack.

* Sawyer finds out he's been tricked. Locke physically locks him in the brig with Cooper; this will be dealt with on Locke's terms.
* Kate's request for a private word with Jack is refused. Instead, Jack metaphorically locks her in to doing it HIS way by insisting she talk in front of Juliet, an outsider she distrusts.

* Sawyer's pleads with Locke to let him out but is refused by an implacable Locke.
* Kate's pleads with Jack to let her out of having to talk in front of Juliet, to have a private word with her instead (a request Juliet is very willing to accomodate) but she is refused by an implacable Jack.

* Cooper is remorseless and taunting. Sawyer snaps and in his anger, he physically attacks Cooper and kills him.
* Jack's attitude is unreasonable. Kate snaps and in her anger, she verbally attacks Jack with some home truths.

The irony is that there is enormous sympathy among the fans for Sawyer, who lost his temper and killed a man, and absolutely none for Kate, who lost her temper and snapped at Jack. She didn't kill anybody, she just annoyed Jack.

I'm wondering if the parallel will continue to hold. In theory, Sawyer is now freed from the hold Cooper has had on him. Are we meant to believe that Kate will now be freed from the hold that Jack has had on her until now? Far from helping to heal the divide in the camp due to mistrust and secrecy, Jack has now demonstrated that HE has secrets of his own which he's not willing to share with Kate - or anyone else for that matter. Even Juliet urged him to tell Kate, and still he adamantly refused. Has this changed Kate's view of Jack? Has she now lost her trust in him like the others have?

I do actually think it's in character for Kate to want to get Jack to realise what is going on, how he's shutting everyone out thanks to his cosiness/protection with Juliet thing and needs to repair the rift of distrust which is forming. I don't have a problem with her wanting to give him a heads up, on principle. She's got his back after all.

However, she went about things the wrong way.

Firstly, she betrayed Sayid's trust (and Des/Hurley/Charlie/Jin's trust by extension). He specifically asked her not to tell (to give them time to question her), and she still blurted out everything to Jack and Juliet. She could have just tried to approach Jack about the trust problem in general without giving away every detail of the Naomi/rescue news.

Secondly, she revealed it all in front of the one person she most definitely does NOT trust and is the direct cause of much of the camp's uneasiness and growing distrust. Juliet. That was just plain stupid considering the possible consequences of that.

That said, I didn't like Jack's abrasive and condescending attitude towards Kate, and I especially didn't like his smug/superior looks to Juliet and whole 'not yet' withholding of his secret.

Yes!

She could have let him refuse, and said something like, "That's fine... but you are making a choice. Sh** is about to hit the fan, and NO ONE here trusts you enough to tell you because of that choice." Or something that would have gotten her point across - that people don't trust him and it's causing more problems than it's surely worth... and still not been flippant with everyone's trust.

Kate simply thinks that Jack is still trustworthy and she still has his back. And I think she thinks that the man who did nothing but take care of the Losties and acted as their leader the whole time deserves to know what's going on. And I guess she's a bit worried that no one trusts him anymore and wanted to tell him that his behaviour since he came back caused people to turn their backs on him. He can only do something about it when he knows what's going on.

I don't think Kate telling Jack has anything to do with trying to hurt him or trying to get back on his "team". She simply trusts him and doesn't think that he switched to the "bad side".